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Energy
Mar 9th, 2004, 7:36 AM
First question:Was a black hole truly created,by scientists,in the laboratory or this is just another bald statement?

Second,and the main part:Do black hole truly exist or not?
I have visited the follwing website where there was thread "Black holes-fact or fiction?",here it is,on this website:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=5376

Also,there is a text on that same website from the "New scientist" magazine,here it is:

Black holes: fact or fiction?

Has the reign of black holescome to an end? Hazel Muir introduces a new
dark lord of the heavens

NOBODY has ever seen a black hole. Yet, despite this lack of direct
evidence, most scientists believe that a massive star at the end of its
life can implode to form an object so dense that nothing -- not even
light -- can escape.

They may be about to change their minds, however. Two researchers in
the US are pointing out that physicists have swept some "humiliating"
problems with black holes under the carpet. By confronting these
problems, they say, they have found an alternative fate for a
collapsing star. Emil Mottola of the Los Alamos National Laboratory
in New Mexico and Pawel Mazur of the University of South Carolina
in Columbia think it might turn into an exotic bubble of superdense
matter, an object they call a gravastar.

According to Mottola and Mazur, gravastars are cold, dense shells
supported by a springy, weird space inside. They'd look like black
holes, lit only by the material raining down onto them from outside.
In fact, they seem to fit all the observational evidence for the
existence of black holes.

So far, however, physicists have mixed feelings about the idea of
gravastars. Their verdicts range from "outstandingly brilliant" to
"unlikely". What's certain is that gravastars will rekindle a great
debate of the early 20th century: are black holes fact or fantasy?

The idea of black holes dates back to the First World War, when German
astronomer Karl Schwarzschild solved the equations of Einstein's
newborn theory of gravity while serving on the Russian front. He
showed that space-time around any massive star would be curved.
Squeeze a large enough star into a tiny enough space and its density
would become infinite and the curvature of space-time would spiral
out of control. The gravity near one of these objects would be so
strong that nothing -- not even photons -- could escape its grasp.

Einstein shared the view of most physicists of the time that such
objects, later dubbed black holes, were too outrageous to exist. He
argued that it was all academic anyway, since stars never shrink
this small. But scientists gradually became convinced that they
do. If a star is very massive, it will blast apart in a supernova
explosion at the end of its life and if a core twice as heavy as the
Sun remains, no known force can prevent gravity squeezing it to a
point.

The result is a "singularity" with infinite density, where the known
laws of physics break down. The singularity's gravity would be so
powerful it would be cloaked in an "event horizon", a boundary beyond
which matter or light couldn't get out. The dramatic idea of a black
hole, which would rip to shreds anyone caught inside it, fired the
imaginations of scientists, artists and writers alike. But no one
has ever rooted the drama in fact. "So far, there is no direct
observational evidence to show that any of the things astronomers
call black holes have event horizons or central singularities," says
Neil Cornish, an astrophysicist at the University of Montana in
Bozeman.

We know there are compact objects millions of times as heavy as the
Sun that hog the centres of galaxies. These black hole candidates give
themselves away because hot stars, gas and dust spiralling towards
them emit bright X-rays. But that doesn't mean there's a cataclysmic
black hole in the vicinity; it could simply be a very massive object.
The debate petered out decades ago but there's still no ironclad proof
that black holes exist.

But never mind the lack of physical evidence -- there are enough
problems in black-hole theory itself to make their existence seem
implausible to say the least. These problems stem from the fact
that our Universe is actually very different from the one that
Schwarzschild considered. If we're to produce a proper description
of the Universe we live in, Einstein's classical theories need to be
meshed together with what we know about the quantum laws governing
the behaviour of fundamental particles and fields.

Mazur and Mottola have been thinking about quantum gravity for nearly
a decade. They began by examining the nature of "quantum fluctuations"
in space, time and even in energy fields. Empty space, for example, is
never really empty. On the tiniest scales, little particles are popping
in and out of existence all the time, creating a seething, fluctuating
fluid. "Like a fish in a calm pond, who is not aware of all the
incessant jiggling of the water molecules, we are usually not aware of
the quantum medium we are immersed in," says Mottola.

And they have found that quantum fluctuations in the electromagnetic
fields that describe tiny things like photons can influence
gravitational phenomena on the large scale -- such as black holes. So,
they reasoned, when early black-hole theorists ignored quantum effects
they were creating an unreal space-time.

Information overload

This traditional approach to black holes has produced strange anomalies
anyway, and these have remained unresolved, Mazur and Mottola claim.
There are problems, for instance, with a black hole's entropy, a
measure of the amount of information it holds. An object that contains
many possible states has high entropy, in the same way that a computer
with more bits of memory can store more information. When a star forms
a black hole, all the unique information about the star -- its chemical
composition, for instance -- appears to be squashed out of existence.
Yet current theory suggests black holes have enormous entropy -- a
billion, billion times that of the star that formed them. No one can
fathom where all this extra entropy comes from or where it resides.
"Where are all these zillions of states hiding in a black hole?" says
Mottola. "It is quite literally incomprehensible."

Another seemingly impossible feature is that photons falling into a
black hole would gain an infinite amount of energy by the time they
reach the event horizon. But the gravitational effects of this
enormous energy are ignored in the classical theory. Mottola says
these problems have forced physicists to dream up far-fetched
excuses. They say, for example, that some of the black hole's entropy
might be hidden in other universes. Mottola doesn't buy these
"esoteric assumptions", and concludes that black holes are a bag of
contradictions that don't make a good case for their own existence
at all.

But is there an alternative? Could it be that when a star collapses,
something happens to prevent a black hole forming? Mazur and Mottola
think so. They have shown that quantum effects can make space-time
change into a new and curious state that would lead to the formation
of a strange new object.

That change is a phase transition, like liquid water turning into a
solid block of ice. They believe that in the extreme conditions of a
collapsing star, space-time undergoes a quantum version of a phase
transition. The phenomenon is nothing new. The Nobel Prize for
Physics in 2001 was awarded for the observation of just such an event
in the lab: the transformation of a cloud of atoms into one huge
"super-atom", a Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC). This clump of atoms,
which all share the same quantum state, forms at temperatures within
a whisker of absolute zero.

When an event horizon is about to form around a collapsing star,
Mazur and Mottola believe that the huge gravitational field distorts
the quantum fluctuations in space-time. These fluctuations would
become so huge they would trigger a radical change in space-time,
very similar to the formation of a BEC. This would create a condensate
bubble. It would be surrounded by a thin spherical shell composed of
gravitational energy, a kind of stationary shock wave in space-time
sitting exactly where the event horizon of a black hole would
traditionally be. The formation of this condensate would radically
alter the space-time inside the shell. According to Mazur and
Mottola's calculations, it would exert an outward pressure. Because
of this, infalling matter inside the shell would do a U-turn and head
back out to the shell, while matter outside the shell would still
rain down on it.

In a paper submitted to Physical Review Letters, Mazur and Mottola
have shown that, like classical black holes, gravastars are a stable
solution of Einstein's equations. What's exciting, they say, is that
gravastars don't suffer any of the mathematical ailments of black
holes. There's no riotous singularity where the laws of physics break
down. There's no event horizon to imprison light and matter. And the
entropy of a gravastar would be much lower than that of any star that
might collapse to form it, dodging the problem of excessive entropy
that plagues black holes.

Take a gravastar with a mass 50 times that of the Sun, for example.
Like the event horizon of a black hole with the same mass, the shell
would be roughly 300 kilometres in diameter. But it would be around
just 10**-35 metres thick. Just a teaspoonful of the material would
weigh about 100 million tonnes. But Mazur and Mottola have shown it
would have a temperature of only about 10 billionths of a degree above
absolute zero. And it wouldn't emit any radiation, making it as black
as any black hole would be.

I continues in the second part...

dutchie
Mar 9th, 2004, 7:39 AM
I have written an article for the site on black holes. It should appear here shortly.

Energy
Mar 9th, 2004, 7:41 AM
Second part:
Dark energy

Gravastars would be just as much fun for sci-fi buffs -- in fact
they'd be even more ruthless. Imagine a black hole of a million solar
masses, like the one thought to sit in the centre of our Galaxy. You
could cross its event horizon without feeling a thing: it's only as
you approached the singularity that you'd be torn apart by the huge
gravity gradient. But if you were drifting towards a gravastar of the
same size, you'd never get anywhere near its centre. As soon as you
hit the shell you'd explode into pure gravitational energy.

Marek Abramowicz, an expert on black holes at Gothenburg University in
Sweden, calls the idea of gravastars "outstandingly brilliant". "Their
unique and remarkable properties could explain several high-energy
astrophysical phenomena that now are puzzling." He thinks they might
explain gamma-ray bursts -- ultra-intense flashes of gamma radiation
from a distant source that appear somewhere in the sky about once a
day.

Astronomers aren't certain what causes gamma-ray bursts. It might be
the formation of a black hole in a supernova explosion, but this
process would struggle to muster enough energy. The birth of a
gravastar, on the other hand, would be extraordinarily violent and
might shed enough energy to account for gamma-ray bursts.

Mottola points to another possible connection between gravastars and
astronomical observations. Three years ago, data from distant stellar
explosions suggested that the expansion of the Universe is getting
faster all the time (New Scientist, 11 April 1998, p 26). Many
physicists ascribe this acceleration to a mysterious "dark energy"
that gives space an outward pressure. Mottola says that if you scale
the size of a gravastar up to around the size of the visible Universe,
the pressure of the vacuum inside roughly matches the pressure that
seems to be accelerating the expansion of the Universe. So our
Universe might be one cosmic gravastar: a giant shell trapping the
Milky Way and all the other galaxies we see. "We might be able to
entertain the really radical notion that we -- and everything we see
in the Universe -- could be inside such an object," Mottola speculates.

It's a bold claim, and he and Mazur are still working out whether it's
justifiable. Unlike their hypothetical gravastar, the Universe contains
copious ordinary matter and its visible edge is always ballooning
outwards. But they're keen to see what happens when they modify their
gravastar model to include these complications. "It is certainly
premature at this point, but the seeds of a possible new cosmological
model are contained in the gravastar solution," says Mottola.

Fact or fantasy?

In the meantime, they are trying to figure out how they could tell
ordinary-sized black holes and gravastars apart. The differences might
be subtle -- after all, in isolation, they're both dark and the
gravitational fields outside a black hole event horizon and the
gravastar shell would be the same. But a good guess would be that
gravastars would shine more brightly, since matter falling onto one
would be turned into radiation. Black holes would gobble all the
matter, but a gravastar would let its energy escape.

The next step is to identify the telltale signs of a gravastar,
Mottola says. "It is the only way to convince the sceptical --
including ourselves -- that nature really behaves this way." Yet
physicists aren't even sure what black holes look like. In October
last year, they reported seeing what appeared to be a heavyweight
black hole, but material falling onto it is emitting far brighter
X-rays than theories predict. The excess energy is roughly equivalent
to the output of 10 billion Suns. If it is a black hole, it's not
clear why it's so bright.

The object may be whirling round and dragging magnetic fields at the
event horizon with it, and these could generate the extra energy by
whipping up and heating nearby gases. But Mazur thinks there's a
better explanation for that extra energy. The "black hole" could be
a gravastar, he says. Stars, gas and dust raining down onto its shell
would violently dissolve into pure gravitational energy that might
emerge as bright X-rays.

To try to resolve this issue, Mazur is working out what a rotating
gravastar might look like. Like every other compact object in the
Universe, a gravastar would almost certainly be spinning rapidly.

Not all astronomers are as enthusiastic about gravastars. Cornish
questions whether an exploding star could really lose enough entropy
to form a gravastar, given that the second law of thermodynamics says
that the entropy of an isolated object will always tend to increase.
"In other words, a cup can break into a thousand pieces, but it is
highly unlikely that a thousand shards of pottery will spontaneously
come together to form a cup," says Cornish. "Mazur and Mottola talk
about a star shedding entropy in some way to make the formation of
a gravastar possible, but I don't think that is a likely scenario."
But Mottola points out that when exploding stars form other remnants,
such as neutron stars, they do shed entropy.

Continues in part 3...

Energy
Mar 9th, 2004, 7:45 AM
Third part:And although Cornish admits that black hole singularities are
mathematically troublesome, he also believes that a satisfactory
quantum theory of gravity will cure this problem. Then there'll be
no need for gravastars, he says. Robert Wald of Chicago University
adds that Mottola and Mazur have put forward no arguments about how
gravastars could form in the devastating collapse of a massive star.
Even if they did form, how would they survive the onslaught of matter
raining down on them? "What happens if a gravastar has accreting
matter showered upon it? Won't it collapse to a black hole?" he says.

"The gravastar is stable," counters Mottola. He says that matter
falling onto the shell could make it wiggle and radiate away energy,
but because the gravitational pull of the shell balances the force of
the springy vacuum inside, it couldn't actually collapse. Any matter
that fell onto the shell would simply become part of it, he says.

All the same, Mottola and Mazur admit there are still unsolved issues
with the formation of gravastars. "We must have a better idea of how
this phase transition actually occurs in the gravitational collapse
process," says Mottola. The exact nature of the exotic stuff inside
the gravastar shell is still open to debate, and they hope to find
out whether gravastars can really form in the mayhem of a star's
violent death -- and whether gravastars could merge to form the
heavyweight objects that sit at the centre of galaxies. They are
encouraging others to join the investigation. "There are many
unanswered questions and we are really just opening a new direction
for future research," says Mottola.

But if gravastars can weather the controversy, then maybe there'll
no longer be any need for black holes -- maybe they really are pure
fantasy. It wouldn't be the first time that Einstein's dazzling
intuition has been proved correct.

Here is what on of posters said as the proof that black holes do not exist,here it is,that was posted by poster named Zarkov:"To create a black hole you must believe in an "attracting mechanism" for matter.
Attraction or pull is philosophically unsound.... matter can only push matter.
In ESGT spin fields can compress matter as per 'gravity'. but it is the field that is doing this not the matter.To create a spin field strong enough to simulate a BH IMO is impossible.BH are a GR mathamatical division by zero.No one should have even contemplated them in the first instant, let alone create this whole black hole fan club.This shows to me, the state of cosmology at the present moment is dominated by illusion."
Would you agree or disagree on this Zarkov's statement?

Another paragraphs from Zarkov,all of his state ments are on this website:http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=5376

Would you agree or disagree?Thanks.

Many say that neither blackholes nor gravastars have been directly observed/sampled, the debate remains limited to conflicting mathematical models.Those who say that if it can be imagined it must exist are again satisfied beyond all rational proportion.

From an poster:"The problem is that every person I have ever asked or read from has a different idea about what exactly a black hole is. Also, while these observations have been made, the actual reasons are not even slightly clear; the black hole thing is still just speculation. Gravity lensing caused by all manner of things in space blanks out huge areas or the sky for us, refraction means we only see what makes it our way, and apart from that everything we see is thousands of years old or more. I know there are massive sources of gravity out there, but the black hole idea is counting your chickens before they're hatched."

So,are black holes fact or fiction:Since there are more and more evidences,although indirect,few weeks ago there was a first direct evidence that black holes do exist,when a star with the size of our sun has unfortunately got too close to supermassive black hole(which mass has 100 million times greater than the mass of our own sun),and ripped that star apart:Here it is:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,62342,00.html

and even better website:

http://www.esa.int/export/esaSC/SEMUPO1PGQD_extreme_0.html

So,yes or no,are black holes fact or fiction?Do they truly exist or not?

Please don't forget to answer the first question!Thanks.

dutchie
Mar 9th, 2004, 8:31 AM
Well, it's a lengthy post, certainly.

1. Both the black hole as this gravastar theories are just that: theories. The first is as good as the second, because both can not be tested or replicated in a lab, so both are equally brilliant or equally daft, whatever you want.

2. The "conventional" black hole answers to Einsteins laws, and behave as such, or so I have been told.

3. If there is no apparent difference, why then MAKE this difference?!?

Energy
Mar 9th, 2004, 9:14 AM
Well, it's a lengthy post, certainly.

1. Both the black hole as this gravastar theories are just that: theories. The first is as good as the second, because both can not be tested or replicated in a lab, so both are equally brilliant or equally daft, whatever you want.

2. The "conventional" black hole answers to Einsteins laws, and behave as such, or so I have been told.

3. If there is no apparent difference, why then MAKE this difference?!?

Just because something cannot be replicated,it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
On the website
http://www.wired.com/news/technolog...2,62342,00.html

is the first direct evidence that black hole has eaten star(actually a part of star),if this can't persuate you that black holes exist,I truly don't know what else can.

Energy
Mar 9th, 2004, 9:15 AM
Just because something cannot be replicated,it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
On the website
http://www.wired.com/news/technolog...2,62342,00.html

is the first direct evidence that black hole has eaten star(actually a part of star),if this can't persuate you that black holes exist,I truly don't know what else can.

Actually,it's on this website:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,62342,00.html

dutchie
Mar 9th, 2004, 4:17 PM
Actually,it's on this website:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,62342,00.html
:confused: I did NOT say I don't believe in the existence of black holes, where did I say that?!?

Energy
Mar 10th, 2004, 5:13 AM
:confused: I did NOT say I don't believe in the existence of black holes, where did I say that?!?

Than what do you believe,that black holes do or don/t exist,or you're 50/50 on this?
As far as I know lazserus said in one of the texts,I've read that black holes do exist,although I'd like to read this article and say his opinion on this,hmmm...

dutchie
Mar 10th, 2004, 5:28 AM
Than what do you believe,that black holes do or don/t exist,or you're 50/50 on this?
As far as I know lazserus said in one of the texts,I've read that black holes do exist,although I'd like to read this article and say his opinion on this,hmmm...
Hmm. It may be that you don't appreciate the concept of "theory", but that is what it is really. It is widely assumed that black holes exist, but that doesn't mean they really do, or that they are what we think they are. Why is it important to you what Lazserus or I believe? OK then: I believe that the theory might be true, because I can understand the logic behind the theory. But the keyword here is "might". There is a theory that there are "wormholes" through which you can travel vast distances in a very short time. Do you believe it? No? Why not? Yes? Why?

Energy
Mar 10th, 2004, 6:51 AM
Hmm. It may be that you don't appreciate the concept of "theory", but that is what it is really. It is widely assumed that black holes exist, but that doesn't mean they really do, or that they are what we think they are. Why is it important to you what Lazserus or I believe? OK then: I believe that the theory might be true, because I can understand the logic behind the theory. But the keyword here is "might". There is a theory that there are "wormholes" through which you can travel vast distances in a very short time. Do you believe it? No? Why not? Yes? Why?

It really depends,how you interprete the black hole-a hole in the very fabric of our space-time continuum/universe.But if black holes really do have singularity,than there is no need for wormholes,but white holes.Black holes eat and destroy everything,inside themselves and singularity,but white holes would be like mini-Big Bangs-just my thoughts.LIke I said,for the existence of black holes the newest evidence,the holy grail for astronomy has been realized on that website I wrote it-a supermassive black hole ripped star apart-first visible evidence.However,it doesn't prove that this is a black hole.The problem with the black hole is that is black,so because of that it is black,it's invisible.No radiation can come back once it finally falls.Even if you throw yourself into a black hole and try to see it,you simply can't know if this is a black hole,a black hole is simply an gravity field.The problem I never really understood is how can't light come back from the black hole,if light is the fastest known "speedster".That would mean 2 things:Gravity of the black hole simply destroys light and/or the speed of gravity inside the black hole is simply greater than the speed of light.

dutchie
Mar 10th, 2004, 7:10 AM
It really depends,how you interprete the black hole-a hole in the very fabric of our space-time continuum/universe.But if black holes really do have singularity,than there is no need for wormholes,but white holes.Black holes eat and destroy everything,inside themselves and singularity,but white holes would be like mini-Big Bangs-just my thoughts.LIke I said,for the existence of black holes the newest evidence,the holy grail for astronomy has been realized on that website I wrote it-a supermassive black hole ripped star apart-first visible evidence.However,it doesn't prove that this is a black hole.The problem with the black hole is that is black,so because of that it is black,it's invisible.No radiation can come back once it finally falls.Even if you throw yourself into a black hole and try to see it,you simply can't know if this is a black hole,a black hole is simply an gravity field.The problem I never really understood is how can't light come back from the black hole,if light is the fastest known "speedster".That would mean 2 things:Gravity of the black hole simply destroys light and/or the speed of gravity inside the black hole is simply greater than the speed of light.
This is quite simple to answer: every big body (i.e. a planet) affects other objects through gravity. Gravitational pull is the basis of "weight", I'm sure you understand. To overcome the gravitational pull of a big body, an object or particle must have a certain velocity, the "escape" velocity, which acts as a counterforce against the pull. Here on earth the gravitational pull is such, that an object must have an escape velocity of approx. 7000 mph or 11000 km/h to escape the gravitational pull of earth.

The gravitational pull of a singularity in a black hole is enormous, far beyond our comprehension. The escape velocity for an object to counter the gravitational pull of the hole exceeds the speed of light. hence there are no particles of light or radiation escaping the hole.

At the event horizon the escape velocity has come down to that of "c", the speed of light. This is where the artists' impression in your link loses touch with reality: he depicts the hole as a flat disc, with a sort of "corona" round it, which depicts the event horizon. In reality the hole should be regarded as having a sphere shape. The event horizon is NOT visible, because then it would be around the hole as a "corona", rendering the black hole visible as a ball of light. In truth, the hole is not visible.

Energy
Mar 12th, 2004, 4:45 AM
This is quite simple to answer: every big body (i.e. a planet) affects other objects through gravity. Gravitational pull is the basis of "weight", I'm sure you understand. To overcome the gravitational pull of a big body, an object or particle must have a certain velocity, the "escape" velocity, which acts as a counterforce against the pull. Here on earth the gravitational pull is such, that an object must have an escape velocity of approx. 7000 mph or 11000 km/h to escape the gravitational pull of earth.

The gravitational pull of a singularity in a black hole is enormous, far beyond our comprehension. The escape velocity for an object to counter the gravitational pull of the hole exceeds the speed of light. hence there are no particles of light or radiation escaping the hole.

At the event horizon the escape velocity has come down to that of "c", the speed of light. This is where the artists' impression in your link loses touch with reality: he depicts the hole as a flat disc, with a sort of "corona" round it, which depicts the event horizon. In reality the hole should be regarded as having a sphere shape. The event horizon is NOT visible, because then it would be around the hole as a "corona", rendering the black hole visible as a ball of light. In truth, the hole is not visible.

Well,there are more and more evidence that support the existence of black holes over the years,as well as proofs that general theory of relativity is also true/correct.
So,black holes DO exist.

dutchie
Mar 12th, 2004, 5:10 AM
:confused: But... did you get why light can not escape the hole?!? I'd hate to have done all that writing for nothing...
:nerdo:

Energy
Mar 12th, 2004, 5:19 AM
:confused: But... did you get why light can not escape the hole?!? I'd hate to have done all that writing for nothing...
:nerdo:


Well,some expert told me this why,but I really can't remember,I think it was even said in one of those documentaries,but since I have watched 100s of documentaries,I can't really remember,what they said.However,there is a particular reason.I'm sure lazserus would know this better.I actually wanted to ask him,but somehow I always miss him.

lazserus
Mar 13th, 2004, 7:52 AM
Light can not escape a black hole because the gravity is so strong that the escape velocity within the Schwarzchild radius (beyond the event horizon) is greater than the speed of light. Hence, nothing can escape the event horizon, not even light.

dutchie
Mar 13th, 2004, 11:53 AM
:confused: ...wasn't that more or less EXACTLY what I said??

lazserus
Mar 13th, 2004, 12:53 PM
:confused: ...wasn't that more or less EXACTLY what I said??
Yea, it sure is. I didn't even notice that. But for some reason he still didn't get it. Maybe he only read the first part of your post. :eww:

Energy
Mar 17th, 2004, 3:56 AM
Light can not escape a black hole because the gravity is so strong that the escape velocity within the Schwarzchild radius (beyond the event horizon) is greater than the speed of light. Hence, nothing can escape the event horizon, not even light.

Sorry for misquoting,I wanted to ask,generally speaking,how does gravity actually affects light at all,is it by the way you've described?

dutchie
Mar 17th, 2004, 5:12 AM
Sorry for misquoting,I wanted to ask,generally speaking,how does gravity actually affects light at all,is it by the way you've described?
Gravity will attract photons. A beam of light will be bent by gravity. Astronomers make clever use of this, by using gravitational fields (from galaxies) as a sort of "lens" through which galaxies or stars behind those fields can be seen, that otherwise would have been invisible.

Here, on the Hubble site, is a explanation of this effect, along with a picture of a gravitational lens. Gravitational Lens (http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/newsdesk/archive/releases/1992/25/image/a)

Energy
Mar 17th, 2004, 5:52 AM
Gravity will attract photons. A beam of light will be bent by gravity. Astronomers make clever use of this, by using gravitational fields (from galaxies) as a sort of "lens" through which galaxies or stars behind those fields can be seen, that otherwise would have been invisible.

Here, on the Hubble site, is a explanation of this effect, along with a picture of a gravitational lens. Gravitational Lens (http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/newsdesk/archive/releases/1992/25/image/a)

Cool,thanks!

Energy
Mar 17th, 2004, 6:06 AM
Here are some websites:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast12jan_1.htm

in here they supposedly saw the event horizons of black hole

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s977980.htm

article about black holes being directly seeing...

dutchie
Mar 17th, 2004, 11:27 AM
Here are some websites:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast12jan_1.htm

in here they supposedly saw the event horizons of black hole

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s977980.htm

article about black holes being directly seeing...
that pic is an artists impression.

Would you please be so kind as to keep this and the other black hole thread together, as they're so closely related?