Bush: The worst president in US history?

[MetalMilitia]

Well, it's been a month since I've bashed bush in a big way, so let's have a go. (note:I do not support Kerry, so My vote doesn't count)
---------------------------------------------------------
With all the controversy surrounding President Bush's use of images from 9/11 in his first campaign ads, one could get the impression that this is the first and only time Bush has exploited the tragedy for political purposes.

But a look at Bush's actions since the most horrific terrorist attack in American history reveals he has been using America's tragedy as a political tool for some time, and that doing so is his only hope for reelection.

The use of 9/11 imagery in Bush's first political ads of the campaign season is only his latest attempt to use the tragedy to further his political agenda.

Some might remember that around the first anniversary of 9/11, the Republican Party raised money by selling to its donors a photograph of Bush taken on Air Force One on September 11th (for $150 a piece), generating a firestorm of public outrage.

Others may recall that Bush and Cheney, under scrutiny about what they knew about terrorist threats prior to 9/11, sternly warned Democrats back in 2002 not to use the tragedy for political purposes - suggesting that to do so would be unpatriotic and unseemly.

The hypocrisy is stunning, and all the more so when one considers that Bush vigorously fought the creation of an independent commission to examine the events leading up to 9/11.

Even after grudgingly accepting the creation of such a commission, Bush has refused to cooperate with it - delaying, stonewalling, and under funding it at every turn. Bush and his Republican cohorts in Congress even had to be shamed into allowing the commission an extra sixty days to complete its work.

And Bush is still refusing to meet with the full commission, insisting that he will only meet with its top two members behind closed doors, not under oath, and only for one hour.

Bush's policies so rarely benefit the public interest or address the pressing concerns of most Americans that it comes as no surprise that he is pinning his hopes for reelection on his "steady leadership" following 9/11.

It is difficult to understand how fiscal meltdown, the loss of three million jobs, and an unnecessary and unwise war on Iraq (costing billions of dollars in American taxpayer money, hundreds of American lives, and resulting in thousands of seriously injured American soldiers) can be sold as "steady leadership," although I suppose one could conclude that Bush has provided America with steadily awful leadership.

His abandonment of America's middle-class and his contempt for the public interest on issues as diverse as the economy, tax policy, fiscal discipline, health care, entitlement programs, education, civil rights, the environment, consumer protection, foreign policy, and even homeland security all explain why Helen Thomas, the legendary White House correspondent for United Press International who has covered every president since John F. Kennedy, said of Bush:

This is the worst president ever. He is the worst president in all of American history.

[Chrisboe4ever]

Well, it's been a month since I've bashed bush in a big way, so let's have a go. (note:I do not support Kerry, so My vote doesn't count)
---------------------------------------------------------
With all the controversy surrounding President Bush's use of images from 9/11 in his first campaign ads, one could get the impression that this is the first and only time Bush has exploited the tragedy for political purposes.

But a look at Bush's actions since the most horrific terrorist attack in American history reveals he has been using America's tragedy as a political tool for some time, and that doing so is his only hope for reelection.

The use of 9/11 imagery in Bush's first political ads of the campaign season is only his latest attempt to use the tragedy to further his political agenda.

Some might remember that around the first anniversary of 9/11, the Republican Party raised money by selling to its donors a photograph of Bush taken on Air Force One on September 11th (for $150 a piece), generating a firestorm of public outrage.

Others may recall that Bush and Cheney, under scrutiny about what they knew about terrorist threats prior to 9/11, sternly warned Democrats back in 2002 not to use the tragedy for political purposes - suggesting that to do so would be unpatriotic and unseemly.

The hypocrisy is stunning, and all the more so when one considers that Bush vigorously fought the creation of an independent commission to examine the events leading up to 9/11.

Even after grudgingly accepting the creation of such a commission, Bush has refused to cooperate with it - delaying, stonewalling, and under funding it at every turn. Bush and his Republican cohorts in Congress even had to be shamed into allowing the commission an extra sixty days to complete its work.

And Bush is still refusing to meet with the full commission, insisting that he will only meet with its top two members behind closed doors, not under oath, and only for one hour.

Bush's policies so rarely benefit the public interest or address the pressing concerns of most Americans that it comes as no surprise that he is pinning his hopes for reelection on his "steady leadership" following 9/11.

It is difficult to understand how fiscal meltdown, the loss of three million jobs, and an unnecessary and unwise war on Iraq (costing billions of dollars in American taxpayer money, hundreds of American lives, and resulting in thousands of seriously injured American soldiers) can be sold as "steady leadership," although I suppose one could conclude that Bush has provided America with steadily awful leadership.

His abandonment of America's middle-class and his contempt for the public interest on issues as diverse as the economy, tax policy, fiscal discipline, health care, entitlement programs, education, civil rights, the environment, consumer protection, foreign policy, and even homeland security all explain why Helen Thomas, the legendary White House correspondent for United Press International who has covered every president since John F. Kennedy, said of Bush:

This is the worst president ever. He is the worst president in all of American history.

http://www.imageshack.us/files2/CANDY_JOHN.jpg

George Dubya Bush is a very bad president, and it is obvious that he is desperate for re-election. Especially since he ordered the Iranians the keep their mouths shut after Osama's capture. That's right, he was caught a while ago, but he wants to announce it before the elections. Most likly some time in October.

FYI, you can catch a bunch of funny Bush cartoons at www.ebolaworld.com

[MetalMilitia]

I wouldn't have minded if the man simply mentioned 9/11, but what does he do? Hires a bunch of fake firefighters and bases the whole beginning of the campain by exploiting 911... I mean WTF.... that after he told the dems specifically NOT to do it... hypocrit... liar... you know what...

***** him! But what choice do I have. Him or Kerry... OooOOooh I'm reassured.

p.s. love the John Candy... ;)

[MetalMilitia]

I wouldn't have minded if the man simply mentioned 9/11, but what does he do? Hires a bunch of fake firefighters and bases the whole beginning of the campain by exploiting 911... I mean WTF.... that after he told the dems specifically NOT to do it... hypocrite... liar... you know what...

***** him! But what choice do I have. Him or Kerry... OooOOooh I'm reassured.

p.s. love the John Candy... ;)

[lotrfan55345]

I hate Kerry.

[Emerald_Dragon]

I don't like Kerry either. But the media 'assassinated' Dean. We have to vote for Kerry to get Bush out! If you don't vote for Kerry [like him or not], Bush will win!??

Desperate times require desperate measures. Vote for Kerry, but campaign for Dean. I think he's starting up his own movement to get normal, real people into local offices. March 18th is the date he's putting out.

I voted for Dean today. I know he dropped out, but its a statement.

[lotrfan55345]

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesF/bonesmen.jpg
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesF/deanbot.jpg

[MetalMilitia]

In a recent poll, 91% of Republicans and 17% of Democrats approved of the job Bush is doing.

No other president has had as big a gap since Gallup began measuring job approval by party in 1948.

The numbers are "ironic for a guy who came into office pledging to be 'a uniter, not a divider....

-MM-

[bbbv3.5]

First of all Kerry sucks! Don't vote for him because you have to. Bush is a great president. Aight! All this crap you hear from news are Democrats. Liberals run the media. They will do anything to kick out bush. Bush had to come into office with the worst economy ever for one because of MR. Cheese( bill clinton ...thats what i call him ). Also if you live in America you would know Bush Tax cuts have saved you alot. Also Kerry won't defend us. Bush will! Clinton, Gore, Kerry will all hide in their shells as Nukes come down on NYC. Bush took out Saddam ( dont mention oil because that is not the reason ) so now Al Queda won't get any of his money. All he has to do is catch Osama Bin Dicken and then we are done. This man is great and he deserved more respect then what the media and especially Liberals give him.

[dabears1020]

First of all Kerry sucks! Don't vote for him because you have to. Bush is a great president. Aight! All this crap you hear from news are Democrats. Liberals run the media. They will do anything to kick out bush. Bush had to come into office with the worst economy ever for one because of MR. Cheese( bill clinton ...thats what i call him ). Also if you live in America you would know Bush Tax cuts have saved you alot. Also Kerry won't defend us. Bush will! Clinton, Gore, Kerry will all hide in their shells as Nukes come down on NYC. Bush took out Saddam ( dont mention oil because that is not the reason ) so now Al Queda won't get any of his money. All he has to do is catch Osama Bin Dicken and then we are done. This man is great and he deserved more respect then what the media and especially Liberals give him.


I agree... mostly. Saddam and Osama are two big trouble causers, but getting rid of them wont solve all of out terrorism problems, but it will help.

[DontBeAfraid]

wow bbb, you really have NO CLUE. When clinton left we were on our way to huge fiscal surpluses, with bush we have the largest deficit ever. Bushes tax cuts might have saved me money if I was a billionair, but im not so it didnt. The tax cuts didnt create jobs either so its really just a lose lose situation.... that is of coarse unless you are a billionair.

Guess what, Al qaeda was not getting ANY of saddams money, they hated each other in fact. Just so you know, the bush administration has ADMITTED that 9/11 and iraq are totally unrelated. Iraq NEVER posed any threat to the US.

[MetalMilitia]

I agree... mostly. Saddam and Osama are two big trouble causers, but getting rid of them wont solve all of out terrorism problems, but it will help.

Yeah, considering they aren't actually the ones blowing themselves up I don't see how capturing them actually gets results.

I have this eerie feeling that we already know EXATLY where Osama is and he may already be in somebodies custody. I'm sure he'll be presented to us sometime shortly before the elections.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Well, what needed to be done in the present situation has happened and now it is time for the apple cart to be upset. I am predicting an explosive upset in the political race. You thought that Dean had it bad words can be overcome and the election is not over till the last vote is counted. August 19 will make a big difference for Dean and his ambitions.

[bbbv3.5]

Hey DontBeAfraid.... Saddam and Al Queda do not hate each other. Saddam admitted in his little jail he was paying terrorists groups and was linked to 9/11. Know your facts before you post them...... ya damn liberal.




Republican forever :sardonic: ........even if I am 14!

[bbbv3.5]

Hey bye the way.. i am not BBB, read the signature! BBB2..... lol

[bbbv3.5]

I was just reading your post closer...... you said Al Queda and Saddam were never linked.... that might be the worst fact I have ever saw. Bush never said that. Bush said SADDAM (not bush) admitted he was linked with Al Queda. Damn think about what you are saying. Please God shoot me..... :crs:

[DontBeAfraid]

Where did you hear that bbb? Please enlighten me. Post a link to a reputable source if you would. The CIA says there is no connection, bush gets his info from them. I will say it again. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

Bush administration admits there is no link:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3909150/

Are you a billionair bbb? Are your parents? If you arent you really arent making bank on these tax cuts. Bush considers shipping jobs oversees a good thing bbb.... If bush gets re-elected we will see how you feel about that in 4 years.

[VegasRonin]

Damn DBA, its not the Government's job to create employment. That's not capitalism. The government is suppose to control our borders, and protect the nation from other nations. That's all, that's it, and stop asking it to do more. Begging the government to fix everyone's ills is what's going to turn the country into a damn police state. I want them to stay out of my life.

[substand]

VR: Amen. (in my most clinton-like voice, though lazserus can do much better)

[DontBeAfraid]

You mean the government isnt supposed to dictate who can get married? The government isnt supposed to fund missions to the moon? The government isnt supposed to police other countries? The government isnt supposed to regulate the media? The government isnt supposed to regulate what substances you can put in YOUR body? The government isnt supposed to break up monopolies(ie microsoft) and try to keep corporations, in the habit of endorsing immoral business practices, in check? The government isnt supposed to regulate the education of its populous?

The government already does a lot of things that you say it isnt "supposed" to do VR. These things dont bother me TOO much; but the government really isnt supposed to run the country into the ground and thats about all its doing right now. It really should try to ensure empoyment for its citizens or else the citizens WILL need welfare and welfare is far less capitalistic than the government helping to employ its citizens.

[lotrfan55345]

DBA, totaly agree w/ you!

I loved the parts with the marrige and the substances in your body. :D

[VegasRonin]

Most of the things you mentioned DBA, the government shouldn't be doing. The moon can be argued, that they're protecting our borders (Well, it can). When did the psychology of the bold American change into the I need help to make it pussed out person. I hate welfare and the "You owe me something" mentality that goes with it. Like JFK said, "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". Sheesh, and he was a Democrat; Back then when it meant something. :Bott:

[DontBeAfraid]

Thats as weak as any answer I have heard on conservative talk radio VR, congradulations sheep. :argue:

Im not asking the country to do anything for me. I just want it to quit trying to bend me over. It is on a steady path to becoming exactly what OUR founders freed themselves from.

[VegasRonin]

HAH! We shall see who's the sheep when the Wicked Wind begins to blow in your direction. Change is coming. Are you prepared? Sheep, Me....Ronin? That's hilarious. Thanks for the laugh. :sardonic:

[VegasRonin]

Oh yeah, before I forget. Lotr, you're a Socialist anyway. Ya little squirt. Well, okay so you're tall but you know what I mean. :devsmoke:

[VegasRonin]

VR: Amen. (in my most clinton-like voice, though lazserus can do much better)
A man with sense. Welcome aboard Mate. Any friend of Laz is a friend of mine. :yeah:

[DontBeAfraid]

We shall see who's the sheep when the Wicked Wind begins to blow in your direction. Change is coming.

Wha'a'a'a' the hug are you talking about.... sheep?

[substand]

DBA- I agree- most of those things the government shouldn't be doing... I don't think the government should be in the business of marriage- it used to be a religious thing. However, antitrust suits are another thing- the government can and make sure capitalism works... basically, I think that people should be free do do whatever the hell they want, unless they:

1) use force (as in take your life or mug you to take money)
2) use threat of force (as in "i'll kill you if you don't give me your money")
3) use fraud (as in, i'll sell you this house if you sign here (but then say the house was never sold, or in the case of business, one of the few things I like about FDR was he signed the "truth-in-securities act" which basically forced corporations offering stock to disclose financial docs to would-be and current investors)

so I don't think the govt is supposed to regulate most of those things, but the part about the companies- they should regulate.

Giving welfare is a different story. Ensuring jobs and welfare- thats robbery- and the govt practices "threat of force" in ensuring you pay your taxes. While I think there certainly needs to be some sort of taxation to run the basic functions of government, there certainly doesn't need to be as much as there currently is...

VR: I'm not sure I agree with your JFK statement... I always figured "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" was the perfect liberal statement... Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country- ie, pay taxes, etc.

[VegasRonin]

DBA- I agree- most of those things the government shouldn't be doing... I don't think the government should be in the business of marriage- it used to be a religious thing. However, antitrust suits are another thing- the government can and make sure capitalism works... basically, I think that people should be free do do whatever the hell they want, unless they:

1) use force (as in take your life or mug you to take money)
2) use threat of force (as in "i'll kill you if you don't give me your money")
3) use fraud (as in, i'll sell you this house if you sign here (but then say the house was never sold, or in the case of business, one of the few things I like about FDR was he signed the "truth-in-securities act" which basically forced corporations offering stock to disclose financial docs to would-be and current investors)

so I don't think the govt is supposed to regulate most of those things, but the part about the companies- they should regulate.

Giving welfare is a different story. Ensuring jobs and welfare- thats robbery- and the govt practices "threat of force" in ensuring you pay your taxes. While I think there certainly needs to be some sort of taxation to run the basic functions of government, there certainly doesn't need to be as much as there currently is...

VR: I'm not sure I agree with your JFK statement... I always figured "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" was the perfect liberal statement... Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country- ie, pay taxes, etc.
Nah, I don't take it in that direction. I take it more as a self empowerment type of thing.

[Emerald_Dragon]

>I hate welfare and the "You owe me something" mentality that goes with it.

i agree. i don't like welfare. but if the gov't going to take 7.125% of all of my paychecks for social security, then I want to see some of it. If they didn't do that, sure, why would I expect anything?

BTW, BBB2 has no clue. Don't think he's 14 either. another pseudo person.

[VegasRonin]

Hey, I'd like ta see some of my social security returns too. The outlook doesn't look good because of all the welfare programs.

[lotrfan55345]

What will happen when the baby-boomers go to retirement and take their social security? :confused:

[bbbv3.5]

Are you a billionair bbb? DBA

I lived in Brooklyn half of my life! I moved to Long Island 3 years ago. Ok! So this time it is God please shoot DBA, :shot:

[bbbv3.5]

And it's not BBB..... read the pro.

[bbbv3.5]

The truth about my age is.... Im turning 14 in May. 8th Grade Junior High.

[DontBeAfraid]

Please put all your little half sentences in 1 post. Though you didnt really answer the question Ill go ahead and assume your parents are not billionairs, which means the tax cuts really didnt save them any money.

You are bbb here there is no bbb2.

On a more serious note you are already half on my ignore list.

[Susie]

Have any other non-Americans read this thread? I find it quite stunning and horrifying that people can support a non-democratically elected leader like Bush, and then say that the things he is done is right! And I have to tell you lot that your democratic party is not liberal! It's more far right than our most right wing party and they have no chance of ever gettting into power with their current policies! Don't abuse DBA for being a liberal. He's just opened his eyes to the world outside america and realised that there is another way...Jeez, i truely hope people with the same views as bbb are in the minority in America. How can you be 'against' welfare? What about all of the people who are not as fortunate as yourselves? What about all of the single mums who have to work 2 jobs just to be able to support their children because of Mr. Bush's tax cuts? What if their kids get ill? God, you don't even have a National Health service.

[Emerald_Dragon]

> i truely hope people with the same views as bbb are in the minority in America.

well, he is a self-professed minor. :lol: Which explains why he has such a naive view of everything. a stark contrast to lotrfan [also allegedly 14] who seems to be well-read.


>How can you be 'against' welfare?

i am against welfare, for the lazy, apathetic, leeches which are so abundant in America, living off my tax dollars.


>What about all of the single mums who have to work 2 jobs just to be able >to support their children because of Mr. Bush's tax cuts?

excuse my chauvinism (sp?), but I think that its due to the lack of education and morality in America.

Ever since the 70's(?), the entertainment industry has eroded people's moral character by portraying the fast and easy life of freedom and choice. Hence, as young people grow into adults, they lack the loyalty and devotion to one another, etc. Look at our divorce rates?! Its no wonder there are more single mothers out there, there exist role models [Murphy Brown] for it.

TV has hindered the masses by establishing acceptable norms, by extending them. And as people evolve, they mimic and accept what they have experienced/watched on TV.


>God, you don't even have a National Health service.

very debatable point. we could argue for hours back and forth over HMOs, private care, and quality of service.

IMO, we don't have one because everyone has an opinion and they all differ. There are 50 states, some want it, some don't, no consensus, no Nat'l plan.

[lotrfan55345]

In my suburb the newspaper is owned by: The Repuclican Party, Fundementalist Catholics, "Compassionate" conservatives.

Everyone in my town who reads the newspaper now has the same views as BBB/BBB2.

Maybe thats what happened to where BBB/BBB2 lived?

[bbbv3.5]

Yo you can think whatever you want about me. I dont care. All i know is that i used my brothers email and changed his password to get on. Don't call me bbb2, that sounds gay. Call me bbb but know that i am not my brother. I never heard of bush admitting bla bla bla. My bad. Plus i did not want to go through all the trouble of getting a new sn.

[MetalMilitia]

A little OT, but somebody had some fun with photoshop :D

http://www.armageddononline.org/images/turkey.gif

[lotrfan55345]

HAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!

LoL, the chicken just... fits!

:rolling:
:sardonic:

[MetalMilitia]

Ahem... that my fellow Minnesotan is a Turkey :D

[substand]

if the gov't going to take 7.125% of all of my paychecks for social security

Double that my friend (actually, that figure includes medicare and i'm not positive its precisely correct, but its close enough) The reason I say double it is that your company pays that for you as well... And I've recently read even liberal scholars who agree that most economists think that if the companies didn't have to pay that, it would increase wages by that amount. (See a book called _What Government Can Do_ by Page et al. for the liberal version)... My boss (in a small company) also said he would give me a raise by that much if he didn't have to pay it.

[bbbv3.5]

From the dead to LIFE! This is when i came back in february after my brother.....so lets discuss this topic again. :D

[Conservative Front]

Bush didn't exploit 9/11. He was reminding the sugar coated people of what happened and what could still happen. I have no problem with this because people should be reminded where at war and this is what the terrorist did to our country.

Accutally you're wrong on this, most people are saying Bush will be reelected not only on his National security efforts but his Social efforts which reduce taxs, and support familys. (DNC and GOP are saying this)

So what, If they where raising money, why not give something in return? I don't see a problem with this.

It's been two years, and there still not exploiting it. There reminding us why we need a Commandeer and Chief who will protect the American people so this kind of tragedy can never happen again.

The commision was an Assault on Bush. plan and simple. but It really back fired on them considering the 9/11 Commision for the most part sided with Bush and his actions. (read the 900 page report)

I wouldn't support an attack that would try to point any finger at me either.

You fail to mention that the first time they met one of the senators left for Canada. seems the canadian prime minster is more important then our own President not to mention they where getting what they wanted and still waffled out on it.

and Once again you fail to mention that 2.8 Million jobs have been created. and An unjust war? Are you suggesting to me that the world isn't safer now that Suddam is out of power. All the democrats, plus the U.N. agreed he had WMD's before we invaded. There's a good reason the U.N. didn't want us there and thats... Oil For Food the non-profit money maker that raked Billions in for the U.N.

Middle Class abandonment? How do you figure? Because he cut taxes for familys? I don't see that as abandonment I see that as encouragment. Bush has done nothing but Support the Working Class (me being working class) With Tax cut after Tax cut. Are you purposing that Kerrys tax hikes would help the middle class?

No. Accutally Bill Clinton is the worst president this country has had. Look at his record He raised Taxes considerable. He lied to the country under oath. His forgien policies where Blow Jobs before Security. His "war efforts" where about bombing Pill factors. and WACO.

[MetalMilitia]

haha, goto google and type in "worst president ever" - without the quotations, and push the "I'm feelin lucky" button.

-MM- :crs:

[humanhybrid]

It's been two years, and there still not exploiting it. There reminding us why we need a Commandeer and Chief who will protect the American people so this kind of tragedy can never happen again. I know your not talking about AWOL Bush are you?
No. Accutally Bill Clinton is the worst president this country has had. Look at his record He raised Taxes considerable. He lied to the country under oath. His forgien policies where Blow Jobs before Security. His "war efforts" where about bombing Pill factors. and WACO. Ya! Clinton screwed an intern but Bush screwed our country. The rationale for going to war was a sack full of SH** http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/15/1089694431729.html?oneclick=true http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6491.htm http://www.kcautv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2041887

[Defiant Noquisi]

Ya! Clinton screwed an intern but Bush screwed our country. THAT is brilliant! I have got to remember that! Thanks HH!!

Chrisboe4ever posted....


Especially since he ordered the Iranians the keep their mouths shut after Osama's capture. That's right, he was caught a while ago, but he wants to announce it before the elections. Most likly some time in October. Chris, do you have any way to prove this? Do you have some links or something? I dont doubt that there will be some grandstanding involved but what you posted....damn!

[bbbv3.5]

Everyone in my town who reads the newspaper now has the same views as BBB/BBB2.

Maybe thats what happened to where BBB/BBB2 lived?

Lol.....when i was reffered as BBB2....when DBA thought i was my brother...when emerald drgon said i was the opposite of LOTR (well maybe that stays....i am not as smart as him). Plus the New York Post is not the least R and more liberal lol. And I am sorry but New York City is just not some town.

[Conservative Front]

AWOL Bush? I think that's been proven a myth. However if we're getting into military records here lets talk about John Kerry committing war crimes and being honored by the North Viet. government or does that not fit you're agenda?

I think you got the names mixed up here Clinton screwed the intern and screwed the country. He cut the military intelligence funding raised taxes gave the OK on WACO. Signed a bill that wouldn't allow the FBI and CIA share information. created enormous amounts of tax on the working class by creating worthless Social welfare programs which completely bombed and where still paying for them. (Tanifit and welfare to work both completely failed in Denver,Arapohoe,New York,Florida,etc...) so yeah... I'm going to say Clinton screwed the intern and the Country.

[substand]

(Tanifit and welfare to work both completely failed in Denver,Arapohoe,New York,Florida,etc...) so yeah... I'm going to say Clinton screwed the intern and the Country.

By "Tanifit" i think you mean "TANF," or Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. This was actually a republican proposal in response to the Reagan (among many others in the conservative / republican movement (and even many democrats and some liberals)) charge that our previous welfare policy paid crackwhores to have babies and not work. The solution was to base welfare payments on amount worked (and limit them to a certain amt of time) and pay more for workers, diminishing as you earned more (but not as fast in the past). In Reagan’s own words:

“Washington doesn't even know how many people are on welfare how many cheaters are getting more than one check. It only knows how many checks it's sending out. Its own rules keep it from finding out how many are getting more than one check.” (see http://www.conservative.org/resources/restore.asp)

Further, it was he who decried most of all the “welfare queens” and the lack of incentive to work. Democrats saw it too… if someone can make 500 dollars per month on welfare with kids, or they can make 500 dollars per month working, what would you choose? Obviously, if you work you will have to put your kids in day care, which costs money (and thus you take home less), plus you will spend less time with them. The choice was obvious- stay on welfare. TANF changed that in making incentives to work.

Clinton tried to take credit for it, though. Many leftists (from what I've read) argue in the face of the facts (such as, there are many less welfare dependants than before) that the only reason there are less people on the dole for less amount of time is because we don’t give it to them for any longer, and make it harder to get welfare (among other things). They may be right or wrong. Personally, I don’t know whether (if even possible) to classify TANF as a failure or not. Up until your post, I had never heard people on the right complain about the results, unless it was to say that "we didn't go far enough" or something else similar. But one thing is clear, you think it failed, and the conservative hero (whom I happen to admire), Reagan, was the source (maybe not the entire source, but certainly the one who promoted it and most famous of whom it can be attributed to) of this legislation.

(metal militia and defiant star helped in obtaining the quote in this post, and I am very grateful to them for it)

[humanhybrid]

AWOL Bush? I think that's been proven a myth. However if we're getting into military records here lets talk about John Kerry committing war crimes and being honored by the North Viet. government or does that not fit you're agenda?

I think you got the names mixed up here Clinton screwed the intern and screwed the country. He cut the military intelligence funding raised taxes gave the OK on WACO. Signed a bill that wouldn't allow the FBI and CIA share information. created enormous amounts of tax on the working class by creating worthless Social welfare programs which completely bombed and where still paying for them. (Tanifit and welfare to work both completely failed in Denver,Arapohoe,New York,Florida,etc...) so yeah... I'm going to say Clinton screwed the intern and the Country.
__________________ I would like for you to prove that he wasnt AWOL! haha
Sam Hamod

10/21/03: (ICH) It is interesting that President GW Bush fled and went AWOL when called upon to serve his country in the military. But this has not stopped him from dozens of photo ops with military jackets and paraphernalia on—as if he is a true warrior. This all pales when we hear of the appalling conditions of military men and their families at Camp Pendleton in California, now this latest scandal of sick, wounded U.S. troops being held in squalor in Ft. Stewart, Georgia while GW Bush runs around the world bragging about his military and how they are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq—yet it’s Bush who has cut the funding and wants to cut more funding to military hospitals, his friend, Republican Representative Duncan Hunter of Escondido, wants to give Camp Pendleton a pass on its poor housing and high levels of pollution. Yes, there is something wrong with this picture.

The men who are victims of warfare and illness from Iraq War I to Iraq War II have been held back from treatment, either by lack of doctors, beds or bureaucratic red tape, have finally been heard through complaints to the media. They have had to go home to wait, or have been kept in substandard housing, in heat without air conditioning and without medicine for months and years at a time; all the time, the President and the Republican Congress has been crowing for more money for warfare, sending records of troops into harms-way, while not caring for those who come home sick and wounded. As Lou Dobbs said today, on CNN, “This is unconscionable.” I’d say it’s a dereliction of duty by the officers in charge of Camp Stewart and the president for not doing something about this instead of running around the world attacking others both militarily and verbally.

Ah, but this is nothing new. I have received mail from children of parents who worked on Agent Orange, all of whom have died or have had many bouts with cancer. I also had friends who were veterans of Viet Nam, all of whom were sprayed and bombed with Agent Orange—they are all dead. The many who are now complaining about the illness they have from the spent Uranium shells are growing, and I’m sure, upon more returning, they will find that the spent Uranium shells did as much damage to our troops as they did to Iraqi troops. Bosnians, Serbs and Croats who served in the Balkan War of recent moment, are still falling ill, with cancer rates at an alarming number in areas where the armor-piercing, spent Uranium shells and bombs were used.

As of today, October 20, the officials at Camp Stewart are asking for more funds, doctors and beds for the oncoming patients and those who have been impatiently waiting for some time. At the same time, the officials at Camp Stewart are saying that there is no problem and that the military sick are exaggerating their claims of waiting time, etc. Of course, as you know, if the stories of lack of medical care were untrue, then the officials at Camp Stewart would not be asking for the extra funds, medical personnel and beds!

I’d say it’s time for our president, our congress people and other leaders to start taking care of the American veterans, the American people and the American economy that now has record numbers of unemployed (remember, under R.Reagan/T.Kennedy/T.O’Neill, they passed a law that said, if you are out of work for more than 18 months, you are no longer counted as “unemployed,” you are not counted at all). The situation at the veterans hospitals in America are but the tip of the iceberg on medical care on that front. As you know, if I went into healthcare for the American public (45% of the American populace does not have health care—we are the only major industrialized nation in the world that does not have universal health care), that would show an even larger problem that has not been addressed properly, and at this point, it looks as it’s not yet going to be addressed by our president or by our congress.

Sam Hamod is the former editor of 3rd World News (D.C.) and edits
www.todaysalternativenews.com ; he may be reached at shamod@cox.net http://www.awolbush.com/

[humanhybrid]

George W. Bush's Military Records
Documents Obtained by Walter Robinson, Martin Heldt and other researchers through the Freedom of Information Act:
Getting into the Guard

(doc26.gif )- Contract of Service (5/27/68)

(doc23.gif )- Penalty for bad attendance (undated)

(doc24.gif ) - Statement of intent: "Flying is lifetime goal." (undated)

Press release http://www.cis.net/~coldfeet/He_gets_high_PR_release.gif (3/24/1970)

Second page of the PR release http://www.cis.net~/coldfeet/afterburners.gif (3/24/70)
1972-1973

(doc7.gif ) - First transfer request; Bush applies to transfer with the 9921st in AL, a non-flying unit (5/24/72)

(doc6.gif )- Lt. Colonel Bricken's Response from AL (5/26/72)

(doc25.gif )- TXANG Recommends approval and notification if Bush is assigned to reserves. (6/??/72)

(doc5.gif ) - Air Force HQ Denver disallows transfer (date unclear)

(grounded.gif ) - Bush's suspension from flying; "Reason for Suspension" Failure to accomplish annual medical examination." (9/29/72; confirming verbal orders of 8/1/72) (James Bath is also suspended on this same document.)

(doc2.gif ) - Bush request for temporary transfer to 187th Tac Recon Grp. in AL (Bush letter, 9/5/72)

(doc11.gif )- AL ANG HQ approval for Bush to train with the 187th. (9/15 and 9/29, 1972)

(doc4.gif ) - Annual Officer Effectiveness Report part 1..."Not Observed" in all categories. (5/2/73)

(doc9.gif ) - Annual Officer Effectiveness Report part 2..."Not Observed at this unit during the period of this report." (5/2/73)

(doc17.gif ) - Special Order from Department of the Air Force, Ellington AFB, ordering Bush to perform 9 days duty in May/June 1973. (5/1/73)

(doc12.gif )- USAF requests more information on Officer Effectiveness Report; "This Officer should have been reassigned in May 1972 since he is no longer training in his AFSC or with his unit of assignment." (6/2?/73)

(doc28.gif )- Major Martin replies; "Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 Apr 73. Report not available for administrative reasons."
1972-1973 Days Credited:

* As received by Marty Heldt in July 2000
* As published by "George" Magazine 10/19/2000
* As released by the White House in February 2004

(Boy, that document sure has gone through the wash a few times! Wonder what's on the original microfiche?)

(doc16.gif ) - 1973 days credited. (undated, unsigned)
Getting Out of the Guard

(Doc20.gif ) - Bush request for discharge from Texas Air National Guard and Transfer to inactive reserves - Bush letter (9/5/73)

(doc27.gif ) - Request Discharge recommended for approval by Col. Killian (9/6/73)

(doc10.gif ) - Chronological Listing of Service (undated; last entry 10/1/73)

(ang22.gif ) - Bush discharge papers (10/1/73)

(Doc21.gif )- Texas Air National Guard OK for transfer to inactive reserves (10/16/73)

(doc14.gif ) - "Military Biography" of George W. Bush (unsigned, undated - no mention of Alabama)
Documents Released by the White House February 10, 2004:
Jan. 6, 1973 USAF Dental Exam Record for 1st Lt. George W. Bush

Memorandum of Lt. Col. Albert C. Lloyd, Jr. (Ret.) (Analysis of Military Payroll Records for George W. Bush for service from 1972 to 1973) (undated memorandum)

USAF Reserve Personnel Record Card for 1st Lt. George W. Bush (Covers period from 27 May 1972 to 26 May 1973)

ARF 1st Statement of Points Earned by 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1972-1973)

ARF 2nd Statement of Points Earned by 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1973)

Military Payroll Records of 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1972-1973)




Dont beleive it? Heres the documents http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp

[stewey]

George Dubya Bush is a very bad president, and it is obvious that he is desperate for re-election. Especially since he ordered the Iranians the keep their mouths shut after Osama's capture. That's right, he was caught a while ago, but he wants to announce it before the elections.

Do you really believe that? Iran did catch one terrorist that is on the "22 most wanted list" (actually about 15 most wanted list now since a few have been caught), Saif Al Adel (sp?), who was not even in Afghanistan but was wanted for other acts. However, Osama is not in Iran, as the USA forces pushed him East into Pakistan/Afghan border. If Iran did have him, they would certainly not stay quiet, as they are looking for a huge boost in public relations and would love to admit catching Osama. If US caught him, the soliders would leak it. Osama is probably dead to be honest. Dialysis + being bombed = hard living.

As for worst president in history? Far from it being Bush. Taft was the least popular, and "worst" depends on your view.

[Defiant Noquisi]

haha, goto google and type in "worst president ever" - without the quotations, and push the "I'm feelin lucky" button. That is just way too good beyond words. :Llol:

[humanhybrid]

That is just way too good beyond words. In our lifetime Its the Bush. The Bush Record Exposed; http://www.democrats.org/bushrecord/index.html

[humanhybrid]

A consevative lie; Things that matter more to our country
I'm going to say Clinton screwed the intern and the Country.
By; CS http://www.bushlies.net/pages/2/ Clinton screwed the intern and Bush IS screwing our country. And yes! heres the cost of the war adding up for the profits that the chicken hawks and roosting freinds are pocketing. Lets not forget the tax breaks either. They would much rather see the money in their pockets than allowing for domestic spending for the poor and other social programs. GOOD day! PS: What is the total cost of the war? See for yourself! http://costofwar.com/

[bbbv3.5]

How is Bush screwing this country, he is doing his best to fix the country. There is no way you can improve a country after 9/11. If you are mad because the taxes are raised well after 9/11 its inevitable that they would be raised. I wrote a thread about how war must be done after 9/11. He isn't screwing our country by sending our boys to afghanistan to hunt Osama. He isn't screwing our country by heading to a charity for terrorists and taking them out. He isnt screwing this country. He isnt screwing this country by raising extra money to insure some lives of our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan. He isnt screwing this country by not funding science, arts and literature instead of protecting this country from terrorists.

So now you explain to me Humanhybrid how he is.

[humanhybrid]

So now you explain to me Humanhybrid how he is. LOOK at his record my freind. http://www.bushlies.net/pages/2/ http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/071304Nichols/071304nichols.html http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=5906 and if your bad and do not listen to what your told this will happen. http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/040715/w071572.html good day! Not enough? we can go deeper into the lies and occupation, and our economy.

[stewey]

In our lifetime Its the Bush. The Bush Record Exposed; http://www.democrats.org/bushrecord/index.html

Yeah, you can really trust the democrats for real information on republicans... You cannot trust either party (Demo or Repub) with information about the other. If you do, you are a tool, plain and simple.


LOOK at his record my freind. http://www.bushlies.net/pages/2/ http://www.onlinejournal.com/Specia...304nichols.html http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=5906 and if your bad and do not listen to what your told this will happen. http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/040715/w071572.html good day! Not enough? we can go deeper into the lies and occupation, and our economy.

Again, any site like that has pretty "Michael Moorish" information. If you believe all their claims, you are a dumbass or a tool. Just because it is on a website does not make it true. That would be like trusting a Palestine site about Isreal information or an Al Queda website about their USA claims.

[stewey]

Anyways, from now on at this forum I am going to be basically just a "in the middle" kind of person if you havent noticed by my last few posts. Does no good to really discuss it much on the internet, as there are so many "sources" out there, you can find any to back up any claim.

I will, however, say that if you think Bush is the least popular president in history, you do not know your history very well. He is not the least popular by a large margin (Taft was by FAR least popular). Whether you think he is doing a good job or not depends on your political views. "Worst" is a pretty relative term.

:pimp:

EDIT: By "sources" to fit any claim, I mean political mainly. If you find a website about science and it is a .edu or .gov domain, it would be reliable most likely.

[Conservative Front]

I've had the pleasure of watching TANF fail. My mother works for Social Services so I get the scoop on this. I know it was a republican bill to start with but Clinton added fuel to the fire. He made it possible for which seems any family or person(s) to receive government benefits for nothing. TANF was a sinking ship before it left harbor and Clinton just added more weight too it. Now, I personally don't have a problem with a program that would train people to work and provide free daycare if they have kids. However I don't believe people should just collect money for sitting on there asses.

---end response to substand---

Prove he was AWOL.

Way too good beyond words? fabricated lies perhaps giving the fact the website is in support of Democrats...

Yes, thats what we need most of all is more programs to help the poor. The government needs to learn to do less with less. Bush's tax breaks helped the Working Class family tremendously. I don't ever want to pay for the less fortunant then me because I have a hard enough time paying for myself.

---end response to HH---

Nice, very nice Stewey. :thumbs:
Good way to put it.

---end response to Stewey---

[humanhybrid]

First of all Kerry sucks! Don't vote for him because you have to. Bush is a great president. Aight! All this crap you hear from news are Democrats. Liberals run the media. They will do anything to kick out bush. Bush had to come into office with the worst economy ever for one because of MR. Cheese( bill clinton ...thats what i call him ). Also if you live in America you would know Bush Tax cuts have saved you alot. Also Kerry won't defend us. Bush will! Clinton, Gore, Kerry will all hide in their shells as Nukes come down on NYC. Bush took out Saddam ( dont mention oil because that is not the reason ) so now Al Queda won't get any of his money. All he has to do is catch Osama Bin Dicken and then we are done. This man is great and he deserved more respect then what the media and especially Liberals give him Well WELL Great at what lieing to the world and then ignoring the world community and the UN? OK lets look at the records aaaagain :crashpc:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Way too good beyond words? fabricated lies perhaps giving the fact the website is in support of Democrats... When I posted that statement "Way too good beyond words." it was meant to be humorous. Just the idea of typing in "worst president" and hitting the "lucky" button on Google and having Bush's page show up was good for a giggle even though its not true. I dont think that there is any way we could label a president the "worst" one given the years and the changes that occur over time.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I've had the pleasure of watching TANF fail. My mother works for Social Services so I get the scoop on this. I know it was a republican bill to start with but Clinton added fuel to the fire. He made it possible for which seems any family or person(s) to receive government benefits for nothing. TANF was a sinking ship before it left harbor and Clinton just added more weight too it. Now, I personally don't have a problem with a program that would train people to work and provide free daycare if they have kids. However I don't believe people should just collect money for sitting on there asses. I dont have any pleasure in watching any program fail that would be of benefit to all of society no matter who came up with it and who sank it. I realize that TANF was frought with problems. In "fixing" the welfare system, I dont think any plan can be created that wouldnt have problems. Just the idea that there would be a possible program to get lazy people off the cash IV was exciting! Helping out people who truly wanted something better but was having a rough time because of childcare was stellar. It is still much better than having opportunists taking money out of my pocket.

I dont mind sharing some of what I have made with those who truly need it and I dont mind helping to pay for a way up for those who would truly benefit from it. I DO mind cash junkies. Just from my own experience on welfare, I hated it. I absolutely abhored it. It was so belittling. What I would have liked to have seen was more programs for self empowerment be required and the way the system is operated revamped. People coming in there to apply for these programs are met with "you are nothing" right from the start. Its not so much the people running the programs as it is the programs themselves. Most of these people see no value in themselves whatsoever after being in them.

However, it is not just the program its also the people applying. I got or had access to get virtually everything these programs had to offer because of my attitude. The counselors really liked seeing that because my attitude was "lets get this over with because I dont even want to be on it". I was willing to do my part. Yet across from me was another woman in virtually the same position fighting everything.

TANF was an ugly mess from the start but, having been a catalyst for change in the welfare system it was worth it. Things can and have improved because of it. This doesnt mean that it was a fix-all because it wasnt. But it sure beats sitting on our own asses and just letting the old systems jack up our taxes even more to pay for them.

[humanhybrid]

I dont mind sharing some of what I have made with those who truly need it and I dont mind helping to pay for a way up for those who would truly benefit from it. I DO mind cash junkies. Just from my own experience on welfare, I hated it. I absolutely abhored it. It was so belittling. What I would have liked to have seen was more programs for self empowerment be required and the way the system is operated revamped. People coming in there to apply for these programs are met with "you are nothing" right from the start. Its not so much the people running the programs as it is the programs themselves. Most of these people see no value in themselves whatsoever after being in them Well said DN I feel the same way. Self empowerment does wonders, and a little help from freinds good day!