Nick Berg

[midnightsonblaze]

When I saw this on the news today this bugged me....even so more that when Dan Pearl has it done to him. We 'abuse' the Iraqi prisoners....and in retaliation a US hostage has his friggin head cut off. I'm not really into gore that much, but I was able to download the video:

Very Graphic

http://www.ogrish.com

Comments from you guys on today's events...?

:ohmy:

[Sirius]

MOAB those mother****ers

[Sirius]

I downloaded this video, and it reminded me that we are not fighting men over, we will treat them like men as the rules of war says, but they are not men period.

[MetalMilitia]

DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda's leader in Iraq beheaded an American civilian and vowed more killings in revenge for the "Satanic degradation" of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers, an Islamist Web site said on Tuesday.

A poor quality videotape on the site showed a man dressed in orange overalls sitting bound on a white plastic chair in a bare room, then knelt on the floor with five masked men behind him.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael... I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah," said the bound man, adding he was from Philadelphia.

One of the masked men read a statement urging Muslims to seek revenge after pictures were published of Iraqi prisoners being abused by U.S. troops at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

"Nation of Islam, is there any excuse left to sit idly by? And how can free Muslims sleep soundly as they see Islam being slaughtered, honor bleeding, photographs of shame and reports of Satanic degradation of the people of Islam, men and women, in Abu Ghraib prison?" the statement said.

The masked men then pushed the 26-year-old American to the floor and shouted "God is greatest" above his screams as one of them sawed his head off with a large knife then held it aloft for the camera.

-----------------------------------------------------


it reminded me that we are not fighting men over, we will treat them like men as the rules of war says, but they are not men period.

An eye for an eye. This kinda thing is going to continue as lon as American troops are stationed in the middle east. We WERE doing so well at keeping our soldiers safe until we purposly threw them into harms way.

Something I do find strage... this guy was in US custody until the day before the he was captured. Dunno where I'm going with that, I just found it odd...

-MM- :crs:

[midnightsonblaze]

Metal.....Where did you know of, or find that info about him in American custody??? I'd be real interested in seeing something......

I wouldn't put it past the govt to set something up...

[MetalMilitia]

Berg, who was in Baghdad from late December to Feb. 1, returned to Iraq in March. He didn't find any work and planned again to return home on March 30, but his daily communications home stopped on March 24. He later told his parents he was jailed by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul. "He was arrested and held without due process," his father, Michael Berg, told the Daily Local News of West Chester recently. "By the time he got out the whole area was inflamed with violence. The FBI (news - web sites) on March 31 interviewed Berg's parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told The Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq." On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated. The Bergs last heard from their son April 9, when he said he would come home by way of Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait. But by then, hostilities in Iraq had escalated. Suzanne Berg on Tuesday said she was told her son's body would be transported to Kuwait and then to Dover, Del. She said the family had been trying for weeks to learn where their son was but that federal officials had not been helpful. "I went through this with them for weeks," she said. "I basically ended up doing most of the investigating myself."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=11&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_iraq_american_beheaded

-MM- :crs:

[MetalMilitia]

By the way, you can turn on CNN or Faux News, the reports are all over the place. This certainly adds to the head of the whole 'POW / Prisoner' situation.

-MM- :crs:

[DontBeAfraid]

damn........ We need to make the people in iraq understand that this will not be tolerated.... And make them understand that they have to help stop this kind of stuff..... If they refuse to stop tolerating this kind of stuff then they deserve to die.... but not slowly like having your head cut off..... I am more and more for nuking the region every month.... And nobody should dare compare the abuse our guys dish out compared to this.

[MetalMilitia]

From the Left Wing Wackos

So what does the Berg murder tell us? That the prison torture scandal led to the killing? Not even close. Terrorists (and al-Zarqawi is undoubtedly one) don't need such excuses to do their dirty work.

The lesson is that not finishing the job in Afghanistan and invading Iraq with no good rationale gave Al Qaida and similar groups time to catch their breath, reorganize, and direct their efforts against a conveniently near target -- Iraq. This is the neocon "flypaper" theory in all its glory. It's working. The neocons WANTED it this way.

And they got it. Congratulations.

And in the process, the killing of thousands of innocent men, women and children by errant American bombs, artillery shells, mortars, and bullets have swelled the recruiting offices of every militia and terrorist organization in the Mideast, in and out of Iraq. Congrats with that as well. You can't have flypaper if you don't have an enemy shooting at you. So we energized our existing enemies and gave rise to new ones who didn't seem to understand that "collateral damage" is acceptable in war.

And the abuse of Iraqi prisoners -- up to 90 percent of which could be innocent according to the Red Cross -- just added fuel to the fire.

So no, the prison abuse didn't cause Berg's horrific murder. Bush's (inept) War, in all its glory, did. The Neocon agenda, in all its folly, did. The war cheerleaders now trying to use this for propaganda purposes, in all their idiocy, did.

Congrats. Your war spirals ever out of control. Good luck trying to wash the blood out of your hands.

Link: http://www.dailykos.com

[MetalMilitia]

From the Right Wing Wackos

HOW DUMB IS AL QAEDA?

This is the really striking thing about the Zarqawi execution of Nick Berg. Al Qaeda never learns. Listening to the hooded coward shriek on that video and reading what he says can only remind us that these people are

a) vile,
b) as alien to true Islam as the KKK was to the Gospels,
c) pathetic and
d) dumb.

They think they terrify us by this? The gang-murder of an unarmed, innocent civilian? And they think that it will add to the shame of Abu Ghraib, demoralize Americans still further, and prompt a withdrawal? In fact, of course, the Berg beheading does a grim but salutary service. In the midst of our own deserved self-criticism, we are suddenly reminded of the larger stakes, the wider war, why we are in Iraq in the first place. Most Americans do not in any way excuse Abu Ghraib, but also see that any sort of moral equivalence between our flawed democracy and Islamism's pathological hatred is obscene. In a purely strategic sense, stiffening American resolve and inflaming American outrage at this juncture is exactly what a smart al Qaeda would avoid. But there is no such thing as a smart al Qaeda. Evil can sometimes be stupid, and often is. Hitler, remember, invaded the Soviet Union. For our part, we must not take the deeper bait, which is to polarize this still further and associate these fanatics with Arabs or Islam as a whole. This is not a war against Islam. It is a war to defend Islam. And a democratic Iraq - not run by mullahs - is indispensable to that end.

------------------

I don't know about the rest of you, but this whole situation is surreal, and beyond me.

-MM- :crs:

[lotrfan55345]

They're all wackos? No....

[mickydoolittle]

It gets worse, what with the he said/she said syndrome.

And to think the US was detaining him--or he was convinced by ppl acting as US agents. . .hhhmmmm.

Click the link damnit!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/12/iraq.berg/index.html

[Moishe3rd]

With all due respect, I don't give a flying f**k what Mr. Berg was doing in Iraq or what the U.S. government was doing about him.
The Muslim fascists cut his f**kin' head off.
They would be more than happy to do the exact same to you, your small children and your spouse.
These are not people. These are animals and should be treated as such.
They wanted to evoke an emotional response. They succeeded.
I suggest a tactical withdrawal from all things Muslim and a "full Roman" (as in Roman Empire; as in Carthage Delenda Est) response to anything and everything that displeases US.
They murder an Israeli woman and her four daughters - nuke Mecca.
They hijack an American plane - nuke Medina.
They cut off our oil - nuke Ridyah.
They develop nasty weapons - nuke Tehran....

These people have got to go....

[lotrfan55345]

Yep, we've got muslim neighboors. I'm gonna sneak in their house tonight and kill them with a knife! Mmmm... I cant wait for the extasy of killing.

And if I get introuble, it will be all your responsibility!

YAY!


---------------

IS IT REALLY POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE'S HEADS TO GO THAT FAR UP THEIR @$$ES LIKE YOURS?

[Maleko]

I think some of you are missing an important issue here. That issue is that these "terrorists" want, no strike that, NEED to turn this into a religious war. Whether it was about oil, or saving a populous from a despotic ruler, or American imperialism, or Saddam pissing off George Sr, or weapons of mass destruction, or whatever else you want to say it was about, they are trying their hardest to turn this into a holy war. And you know what? We are helping them!

Whether those men and women in Iraq were told to torture those prisoners, to the people in charge of the resistance, this was an affront on a very large scale. So how do they react? They do EXACTLY what some of you are espousing, they upped the ante. They brutaly cut the head off an American to show us that they will not stand for the torture that we (intentionally or not) put their friends and families through. Now you want to up the ante back to them? Hey lets bomb Mecca, or Medina, or Riyadh or Tehran, pick an Arab city. What do you think their response will be? I'll tell you exactly what their response will be, it will be a holy war on a scale that the world has never seen, nor will ever see again. I know this is a forum for discussion regarding possible endings to the world as we know it, and I whole heartedly understand (and feel) complete and utter revulsion for the actions that were commited against a man who lived in my home state, but I would like to see my children, and eventually my grand-children grow up, not be killed because some people crave armageddon.

Now, I'm not saying that what they did to that man was right, nor am I saying that what our troops did to their people was right. Two wrongs do not make a right, and adding a third, or fourth, or ... wrong still does not make it right.

[midnightsonblaze]

Maleko......I truly love what you just wrote because it is the exact truth...they are upping the ante...we abuse prisoners...they cut a citizens head off, what do we do next.....?? Kill a bunch of Iraqi's to get to Al-Sadr(sp)? Bomb something? This is getting more and more out of hand by the minute..What is truly next?! If we retaliate who says a dirty bomb might not be exploded on US soil....or for God sakes....like I said in an earlier post at the Olympics??? Maybe the US Basketball team could be held hostage and killed one by one?? You can think of all the awful things that could be done....



:eek:

[Bigsky770]

within the last few weeks that many doves fail to grasp, I'll lay it out, you cannot give the stamp of 'conspiracy' upon this. . .

1. You have an Israeli armoured vehicle blown-up, It's five military occupants blown to pieces, so what do the Palestinians do? Collect the bodyparts as souveniers, and play soccer with heads. . .

2. Within the last month, 4 civilian contractors are killed, burned to death in the vehicle they were riding in, then their bodies were collected, summarily suffered further mutilations, then their bodies' hung from a bridge.

3. Nick Berg is videotaped having his head sawed-off, all the time screaming a little louder than his assailants, who are screaming "God is Great!!" while they do this horrific work. (orgasmic ecstasy here?)

What I am about to say MANY would no-doubt take exception to, but I will say it anyway. We ARE NOT dealing with "humans" here, at least not in the sense that you know your neighbor as human. Not in the sense that you know your bureaucrats as human, not at all in the sense that you know your countrymen as human. These are monsters, bred from Hell. You try to negotiate with them? Forget it. Life is cheap to them, turn your back and the knife is thrust. NEVER pet a burning dog.

These are ANIMALS. SAY IT WITH ME: ANIMALS. Understand that they are, destroy the ones that profess this type of thought and carry-out these acts, they are NOT fit to be humans, not even close. Make their ends quicker, THAT shows we are better. At least WE CARE that they NOT SUFFER like Nick Berg.

I do NOT believe that all 'Muslims' are capable of these kinds of acts. The ones who are NOT are so afraid of the ones that DO that they will not speak; THAT is why you hear 'silence' from the larger portion of them, and also either non-reporting (or) 'a new twist' to try to rationalize these acts from news sources such as Al~Jazeera. . .They placate terrorists thinking that will buy them time and safety, they are nothing but COWARDS. I am so filled with disgust that I could scream.

I can not/will not justify what went on at Abu Ghraib. THAT was awful too,
though it was 'awful' in a different context. I condemn what went-on there, there was NO DIGNITY in that. WE SHOULD BE better than that. In the end I have no-doubt that we will PROVE we are better than that; WE QUESTION. WE EVALUATE, WE RECTIFY, WE PUNISH. In the form of 'government' that these sub-humans would be thrilled with, THIS IS NOT the case. These sub-humans who did this to "Nick Berg" used the excuse that they did this BECAUSE of "Abu Ghraib" and in that it was a poor excuse, well-known for the fact that THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE ANYWAY. Nick was a civilian contractor, (not at ALL a "Combatant") lived life with an ease that he was just maybe perhaps too trusting, too good, too easily taken advantage of. . . How sad that this shows how NOT TO BE. . .

Joe (Bigsky770)

[midnightsonblaze]

Joe.......a very well stated response.....I totally agree with you as well..

The people that did this are monsters, demons, whatever the hell you want to call them.....I cannot justify in my mind how you could sit there and saw someone's head off.....this is another human being you are doing this to. I don't give a shit wether you practice my religion, believe what I believe...you just don't do this.....The people that did this have NO MORALS whatsoever.

The thing that bugs me is they were saying 'God is Great' while doing this....maybe I'm wrong by saying this...but in my mind I don't think any God would love this....except pure evil......

[MetalMilitia]

I'll lay it out, you cannot give the stamp of 'conspiracy' upon this

This outrageous action is being condemned by Iraqis and Muslim scholars while it is also being used to encourage a desire for American retaliation. As a result, questions are already being asked, concerning the identity and purpose of the murderers. So, leave it up to me to point out the "wag the dog" timing and other suspiscous aspects of the situation.

Beheaded Man's Firm Was On Right-Wing 'Enemies' List http://www.breakfornews.com/NickBergEnemiesList.htm

Fishy Circumstances and Flawed Timelines Surround American's Beheading http://www.infowars.com/print/iraq/berg.htm

-Arabs have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.
-Arabs have Western-style body posture and mannerisms. I noticed these guys were like 6 feet tall, and heavy set. Not the typical arab postures.

Iraq militants claim al-Zarqawi is dead http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4446084/

Iraqis Condemn Beheading Of American Civilian http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-05/12/article03.shtml

Al-Azhar Scholars Denounce Berg's Beheading http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-05/12/article08.shtml

Arabs react to Berg decapitation http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3897D0E4-B263-46FA-B96D-A89AA3C4F4C8.htm

US pledges to catch Berg killers http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3706081.stm

FBI Saw Berg During Iraq Police Detention http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2004%20News%20archives/May/12n/FBI%20Saw%20Berg%20During%20Iraq%20Police%20Detent ion.htm

For those who wish to see photos of the beheading:
Purported Al Qaeda Leader Beheads U.S. Civilian in Iraq http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6172.htm (All of the images and photos I have seen were bad, so make sure you are ready to actually SEE something like this, and that the kiddies are in bed)


Whether it was about oil, or saving a populous from a despotic ruler, or American imperialism, or Saddam pissing off George Sr, or weapons of mass destruction, or whatever else you want to say it was about, they are trying their hardest to turn this into a holy war. And you know what? We are helping them!

Yes, whoever did this aren't human by any means, but rather extremists hoping that this will have a profound impact on their, and our political systems... and I think they are getting exactly what they wanted. Also, whoever was responsible for all of this, it was meant do DIRECTLY insight rage in the Americans.... that is also working. So what're we gonna do? Fight fire with fire? Bomb some more cities? Kill a few hundred more of their civillians? You do the math, we are bing suckered into a deeper war here, and on a more personal level... and you're right, It's EXACTLY what they want from us.

-MM- :crs:

[MetalMilitia]

The group who captured Berg - their nationalities remain unclear - claimed they were beheading him as retribution for the abuse and torture of Iraqi prisoners in U.S. and British custody. "The dignity of the Iraqi prisoners can only be returned by blood...and souls..." went the statement from the group.

Some U.S. lawmakers have blamed 9-11 for the torture of Iraqis claiming that such treatment could prevent terrorist attacks. Iraqis are blaming the U.S. for destroying, not rebuilding, their country. The U.S. is blaming Saddam Hussein's WMDs, links to Al-Qaeda, and his disastrous human rights record for invading Iraq. The first two have since been found to be non-existent. The latter has been copied and mimicked by U.S. interrogators seeking to break Iraqi detainees' resolve and making prison life "a hell."

The news from Iraq is gruesome indeed. Everybodies blaming everybody... where do you see this going during the upcoming election year? This is gonna make the US political system so unpaletable you will puke from watching CNN.

-MM- :crs:

[midnightsonblaze]

A day after the US is finding more and more crap about this.....were they hoping a video wasn't going to come out or something and to just slip this by the citizens of the USA with a little side story?!?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040513/ap_on_re_mi_ea/berg_government&cid=540&ncid=716

I have Yahoo load up when my browser opens and has had about 4 different stories today. The gov't had to know at least something was up.....they aren't that stupid....

I really don't want to get too more into this because then it could get into conspiracy....but could they gov't be hand in hand with these people just to sway opinion and get this into a deeper and deeper 'war'?!?

:Grind:

[midnightsonblaze]

Metal......Not only do I think that this will have something to do with the upcoming election the whole Iraq and 'War on Terrorism' will. If things get worse....which they obviously will...Bush can use this as a big advantage at the polls. In my opinion.....he could use something like:

"'John Kerry has no experience with what is going on, and I do since I've been in the thick of it during my years in office. I will be the one to help lead you out of this situation. If you want inexperience about what is going on vote him in....but I'm your true leader.'"

I really can't imagine how many people would by some crap like that, but it wouldn't just be a handful....



:ohmy:

[mickydoolittle]

With all due respect, I don't give a flying f**k what Mr. Berg was doing in Iraq or what the U.S. government was doing about him.
The Muslim fascists cut his f**kin' head off.
They would be more than happy to do the exact same to you, your small children and your spouse.
These are not people. These are animals and should be treated as such.
They wanted to evoke an emotional response. They succeeded.
I suggest a tactical withdrawal from all things Muslim and a "full Roman" (as in Roman Empire; as in Carthage Delenda Est) response to anything and everything that displeases US.
They murder an Israeli woman and her four daughters - nuke Mecca.
They hijack an American plane - nuke Medina.
They cut off our oil - nuke Ridyah.
They develop nasty weapons - nuke Tehran....

These people have got to go....

Well, you are partially correct. While I don't disagree that now is the time for a complete withdrawal followed by a decimating assault over the entire region--save for Israel.

It is a fact that they want to kill all those who are according to them corrupt and of western ways.

However, it is interesting nevertheless that he communicated to his family that he was being held by those identifying themselves as AMERICAn national security personel.

Don't you think?

Remember: they only come at you when in a group (typical cowardly punk gang bullshit), they use restraints while carrying out their noxious abherrent behaviour, they attack civilians rather than the soldiers who are armed, and they hide behind a mask the whole time.

Regardless of why he was there and why he was being held, it is atrocious, albeit completely typical of that particular group of ppl. I wholeheartedly agree they should be hunted down like the animals they are and excuted without mercy or sympathy.

But first, ahhhh, first they should be forced into extended contact with that which they fear most--unclean things as dictated by their terrorizing mass murder oriented faith.

:thumbs:

[Maleko]

Bigsky, I agree with you. These "people" are savages. They do deserve to die. The problem is though how do you kill this "illness" without killing, and thereby inciting, the innocent people. People who are too scared to speak up against their neighbors who commit these atrocities? These so called people are a cancer on the world, but how can we cure the cancer without killing huge portions of the "healthy" people surrounding it?

I know some of you will espouse pulling out and sending a few tactical nuclear weapons in that direction to cure the plague. But please explain to me how you are a "better person" for wanting that. The people that commit such atrocious acts would do it to you, but you are no better than they are if you wish to do it to them. A doctor cures an illness, a butcher kills the patient. Both eradicate the disease, but one is human and one is not. Which do YOU want to be?


As an aside, does anyone else find it strange that a beheading of a supposedly live human, left so little blood in the room?

[MetalMilitia]

As an aside, does anyone else find it strange that a beheading of a supposedly live human, left so little blood in the room?

The murder is real.

The only thing I notice is that the words "Al Qaeda" are not actually in the beheading tape. The accent is wrong for the real Zarqawi (who should limp from his artificial leg even if reports of his prior death are wrong - Accent has been studied by US experts).

The Iraqis are saying these were "foreigners" carrying out the beheading, and as we see in the tape, they have white skin, as white as Nick himself. And weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.

What it all means, I have no idea.

-MM- :crs:

[MetalMilitia]

Police thought beheaded man a spy

THE American beheaded by al-Qaeda terrorists in Iraq had been arrested by local police on suspicion of spying, it was revealed last night.

Nick Berg told friends in Baghdad that Iraqi police had held him for 13 days because he had a Jewish-sounding name and an Israeli stamp in his passport.

"They thought he was a spy," said Hugo Infante, a Chilean who works for the United Press International news service.

As Mr Berg's body was being returned to the US last night, his family were angry that their son had been held for so long.

Mr Berg was arrested by Iraqi police in the northern city of Mosul on March 24 because they "suspected that he was engaged in suspicious activities", an FBI spokesman said.

He was not released until April 6. On April 9 he was kidnapped.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9556451%255E401,00.html

-MM- :crs:

[Emerald_Dragon]

>As an aside, does anyone else find it strange that a beheading of a supposedly live human,
>left so little blood in the room?

i think it was staged to incite a reaction to overshadow the prison abuses and justify the American occupation. I've mentioned it earlier. "When shown that you're wrong, show your opponent more wrong"-approach to problem solving.

I think Berg was alive when they video taped him talking. I think he was dead before they beheaded him. I also think they may have dressed him up in the Guantanemo (sp?) prison attire to mock us. Or maybe all prisoner clothes around the world are the same. I don't know.

The kidnappings seem to have an underlying theme over there. Intimidate the foreigners and let some of them go. IMO, it looks like mercs are the ones getting brutalized over there. Berg didn't look like some scrawny petroleum engineer.


>You have an Israeli armoured vehicle blown-up,

was it an armored bulldozer? the ones that destroy homes and run over the occasional protester [Rachael Corrie]? they have been doing it for how many years now?


>Within the last month, 4 civilian contractors are killed,
>burned to death in the vehicle they were riding in,

i remember, they were mercs, paid security officers. other corporate types have been kidnapped and sometimes released. it appears these fanatics are particular about who they kill.


>Nick Berg is videotaped having his head sawed-off,
>all the time screaming a little louder than his assailants,

no argument here. that was highly distasteful. like a bad snuff movie, with dubbed sound and everything. who knows, i don't.


>Yes, whoever did this aren't human by any means,
>but rather extremists hoping that this will have a profound impact on their,
>and our political systems...


i think its a difference in cultures. from what little i know, they chop off your left hand if you're caught stealing, stone/kill you publicly if you're an adulterous female, and slit your throat publicly for some crimes. Again, I can't confirm it, but I know it exists.

We are more civilized/evolved. When we execute someone, we either do it with a electric chair or lethally inject them. We don't shoot them or hang em high anymore. We also have due process. I don't think they're animals, I think they're uncivilized (~savage).

[MacRasta]

I told you guys that the Iraqi prisoners where lucky... :ohmy:

Crazy fuqs.....they should be raped by pigs!

[DontBeAfraid]

As an aside, does anyone else find it strange that a beheading of a supposedly live human, left so little blood in the room?
Uh, I think you should watch the video again. The blood doesnt contrast on the floor very much but if you look close you can see there are massive amounts sprayed out with each cut.

I think Berg was alive when they video taped him talking. I think he was dead before they beheaded him.
He was shaking.

[Emerald_Dragon]

hey DBA, where's the link to the d/l. I want a second look for what you're saying.

[DontBeAfraid]

I just DL'd from the ogrish site that midnightblaze posted a link to.

[Emerald_Dragon]

Thanks, will take another look. Thought it was here somewhere.

Maybe I've been desensitized because it doesn't phase me. The thought revolts me more than the video. Maybe because my copies aren't as clear nor complete.

Is it true that the professed ringleader was killed previous to the making of the video? If it is, then IMO this could be a psy-op.

BTW, per one of MM links, Berg was a "small telecommunication business owner". So he's not a merc. I think. The picture his family's got doesn't look alot like him in the video. Lost weight and gained a beard/goatee. Did he get shorter too?

Ahh, what a mess.

[RavenWhitefang]

The articles that were printed in the local paper here, said that after his peace corps like trip to Africa he didnt eat much because he gave his food to the locals. He probably did the same thing in Iraq. His dad didnt like it and commented about his weight loss in the articles. The murder was real, but I dont believe that the people who did it were. The person to the far right was fidgeting too much like a person from the US. That may just be me, as I havent seen too many Iraqi people fidget and such so much during something like that.
Also in related articles were comments about the Iraqi abuse, that it was the company that Jessica Lynch was a part of, that they did it to "avenge" her rape.

[MetalMilitia]

Coalition spokesman Dan Senor said "...Berg was at no time under the jurisdiction or detention of coalition forces..."
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/13/1084289786203.html

"The Iraqi police never arrested the slain American," al-Barhawi told reporters, "such reports are baseless."
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2920856

But now...

"To back its claims that Berg was in U.S. custody, the family showed The Associated Press an April 1 e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq.

"I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly," the e-mail said.

In another e-mail four hours later, Payne wrote "I have been able to confirm that your son is being detained by the U.S. military. I am attempting to identify a person with the U.S. military or FBI here in Iraq who you can contact directly with your questions."

In a third e-mail later that day, Payne wrote she was still trying to find a local contact for the family.

http://wcco.com/topstories/topstories_story_134141930.html

Which is it? Why the mixed stories?

-MM- :crs:

[MetalMilitia]

The father of Nick Berg, the American beheaded in Iraq, directly blamed President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Thursday for his son's death.

"My son died for the sins of George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld. This administration did this," Berg said in an interview with radio station KYW-AM.

Berg described the Patriot Act as a "coup d'etat." He added: "It's not the same America I grew up in."

Read the full article at the link below

Link: http://tinyurl.com/3c2rh

---------------------------------------

Berg should NOT have been wandering around enemy country (as a Jew, if thats relevant), an American and as an unattached (assumption) free lance guy looking for employment. I would like to know how he, an unemployed civilian, got a visa to enter Iraq in the first place?

It is a war zone, and from own experience I know the US controls all American entries into such hostile areas. Without an employment contract, I don't understand how he was allowed into Iraq. That would be my first question. He was there, and his cover story was "a freelance technician looking for ways he could help Iraqis rebuild their telecommunications grid". That story doesn't sound convincing. Now that two versions of his 13 day stay with the military are emerging, Mr. Berg and his presence in Iraq become even stranger.

-MM- :crs:

[lotrfan55345]

Didn't the US want to hire contractors to "rebuild" Iraq? I thought he was one of them. :confused:

[Strife]

Did anyone see the actual full length footage of his death? Man....my brother and his friends are nuts, ignorant. I saw some of the clip, the terrorist in the middle of the group read about 2 pages worth of paper, finished, then I heard yelling not from Berg, but from the terrorist as one of pulled out a machete I think..well after that I just left my room. :nono:

It's sad, the man was there helpless on the floor, he just had no way out and he didnt see it coming. :nono:

[MacRasta]

Been reading on the net about this, and a lot of people think it's fake. I don't want to go in on this because this is not a conspiracy thread. Never the less you should click this link :

Take a look at the chair (http://www.rense.com/general52/chair.htm) scroll down a bit and click on "take a look at the chair..."

:eek:

[Slacker]

It goes from 2:44 when he is sitting up to 13:44 (or something like that) when they are actually decapitating him.

Some websites are saying he was killed by CIA or other US-led group, and that he was dead when his head was cut off because there was not as much blood as there should have been if his heart had been beating at the time.

I don't know what to believe. I do believe that our government (especially led by Bush) is capable of horrendous things for political reasons.

What is this world coming to!??!

[humanhybrid]

I do believe that our government (especially led by Bush) is capable of horrendous things for political reasons.
But shouldnt our president be one that holds our trust? Our safety? Our reputation as a country that stands for the right of life liberty and justice for all man, regardles of any affiliations? Well please express to me and correct me if you choose. The war was considered over a while back when Bush publically gave a speach, No? War whatever the case. You see there has been no formal declaration sighned. Meaning no war, meaning nobody held accountable in the world courts for any war crimes. The geneva convention applies to wartime conditions? This administation has engineered this whole outcome to avoid being convicted of anything. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1221.htm They even hired private interrogators to take the fall, for the alleged torture and humilation and deaths of the Iraqi people. Lets face it, it seems that they dont want the blood on their nice pressed grey suits. They are seeking re election and if they have stains on them, it means a loss. good day!

[lotrfan55345]

Take a look at the chair (http://www.rense.com/general52/chair.htm) scroll down a bit and click on "take a look at the chair..."

:eek:

What a coincidence... The timing of this Nick Berg fiasco is also weird, right after the Iraqi abuse scandal...

[Slacker]

What do you think about the (denied) link between Berg and Moussaoui?

[mickydoolittle]

They even hired private interrogators to take the fall, for the ... deaths of the Iraqi people. Lets face it, it seems that they dont want the blood on their nice pressed grey suits.

:sardonic:
WTF is wrong with you? WTF are you on about? How about some actual corroborating evidence or are you too afraid to be proven the liar that you know yourself to be?

What deaths of which prisoners in whose custody?

[midnightsonblaze]

Take a look at the chair......well yeah the same.......but I can buy the same friggin thing at Walk-Mart that my neighbor has......get a clue...

:nono:

[humanhybrid]

WTF is wrong with you? WTF are you on about? How about some actual corroborating evidence or are you too afraid to be proven the liar that you know yourself to be?
What deaths of which prisoners in whose custody? Ok! It is not necessary to be rude or indirectly vulgar. Whatever your reason its not ok?? No really!!! GOOD DAY! Oh! furthermore Ill just be a gentleman and sit back and wait for that information to be read by your eyes or heard on national television, etc. Your demeaning and anti social behavior will not purge nothing from me. good day to you sir.

[humanhybrid]

Iraqi In Custody Tortured To Death

After the shock of the abuse photos, there's a worse new allegation against US troops. Spiegel TV has acquired written and oral documentation indicating that a 47 year old Iraqi was tortured to death in American custody. The Americans are alleged to have attempted to cover the case up.

Spiegel TV Exclusive (Translated by S.B.)
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,299964,00.html

05/15/04 -- Berlin - The case of Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel was pure routine for the American troops. After the 47 year old family father died on the US military base Al Asad west of the town of Khan al Baghdad in US custody on January 9th 2004, an American doctor filled out a death certificate. Apparently without doing an examination, and according to the documents, without performing an autopsy, the pathologist Luis A. Santiago wrote that the man had died in his sleep. The US troops handed the body, including the death certificate, over to the International Red Cross shortly thereafter.

American troops had previously arrested the respected family patriarch on an open road and taken him to the American military base Al Asad west of the town of Khan al Baghdad. Ostensibly there was suspicion that he belonged to the Iraqi resistance. The soldiers are alleged to have put enormous pressure on Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel in the base prison. Another prisoner gave Spiegel TV a detailed description of how the 47 year old was tortured in a sadistic manner for five days. The witness says that the soldiers also took photographs of the abuse.

Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel died in US detention on January 9th of this year. However, there are grave doubts about the version that claims his death to have been from natural causes. An Iraqi forensic pathologist who took the body over from the US armed forces confirmed to Spiegel TV in Baghdad that he diagnosed definite torture marks on the body of the deceased. In addition, photos of the deceased confirm that contrary to the US documentation, an autopsy had been performed on the man. The scars on the torso indicate that Western doctors did the autopsy.

Deep Dark Bruises on the Entire Body

Even a layman can easily recognize the obvious effects of violence on the pictures of the body: Large, dark bruises that could come from beatings can be seen on both sides of the body. On the wrists and ankles there are bruises, which presumably date back to many days of captivity. There are bruises from beatings or other forms of violent impact on the back. Other lacerations on the upper body point to injuries which can hardly be called "natural".

If the suspicious facts against the US troops turn out to be true, the US torture scandal would take a dramatic turn. If the charges hitherto were about violent abuses of prisoners and humiliating methods of interrogation, the investigation would now have to include failure to give assistance, manslaughter, or even murder. The participating soldiers and their commanding officers could be harshly punished, and the US army in Iraq would be exposed to even more hate and desire for revenge than they already are. Although there are already a number of investigations being carried out about unclarified deaths in Iraq, and also in Afghanistan, - the army insists that in none of the cases can the guilt of the soldiers be proven.

According to the research of Spiegel TV, the case of the family father Jaleel in occupied Iraq is not a rarity. Employees of the Forensic Pathology Institute in Baghdad confirm that among the bodies that the International Red Cross has handed over to them on behalf of the Americans there are always victims of torture. However, the Iraqi pathologists are forbidden to do their own investigation as long as there is an American death certificate - even if the information about the cause of death is obviously false.

The US Army Remains Silent

About five bodies with US Armed Forces death certificates are handed over every week in Baghdad alone, according to the employees of the Institute. The established practice of the Americans is to declare bodies that come from the prison at Abu Ghuraib as victims of grenade attacks on the camp. This was the case with the bodies of 26 detainees last week, even though only some of the bodies showed injuries typical of grenade attacks, the employees said.

Meanwhile in the case of the 47 year old Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel, there appears to be an internal investigation of the US troops going on. Witnesses report that they have been questioned by US soldiers about the procedures on the American military base Al Asad. Spiegel TV has been attempting to get a statement from the responsible authorities of the army in Baghdad for several days. Up to now, however, all written as well as oral questions remain unanswered.

[MacRasta]

Take a look at the chair......well yeah the same.......but I can buy the same friggin thing at Walk-Mart that my neighbor has......get a clue..

Ok, go back to the picture and take a look at the table

[mickydoolittle]

Ok! It is not necessary to be rude or indirectly vulgar. Whatever your reason its not ok?? No really!!! GOOD DAY! Oh! furthermore Ill just be a gentleman and sit back and wait for that information to be read by your eyes or heard on national television, etc. Your demeaning and anti social behavior will not purge nothing from me. good day to you sir.

You're such an ass. :indec:

Your posting of KNOWN propaganda and OBVIOUS lies does nothing to further your case.

So there.

[humanhybrid]

Your posting of KNOWN propaganda and OBVIOUS lies does nothing to further your case.

So there. Good day to you sir too! Please state your specificity's! I would like to help you!

[VegasRonin]

I personally think the guy was a sympathizer, if not to Al Qaeda then to the Iraqis in general. I think he thought he was just going to play hostage for a video, and was caught by surprise when they attacked him. Nobody would sit so calmly and still knowing what was coming. Years ago he "accidentally" let Masoui (Probably spelled wrong) get a hold of his computer password, and now he winds up in the hands of one of Usama's buddies. BIG COINCIDENCE! :nudge:

[mickydoolittle]

Good day to you sir too! Please state your specificity's! I would like to help you!

Oh please....you want to help me? Cease your regurgitated posting of :bs: .

[humanhybrid]

Oh please....you want to help me? Cease your regurgitated posting of BS . I guess your posting is furthering our needs here at this forum! I dont think you have any say so as to what information is posted, and furthermore! your repeated rudeness and lack of social skills indicate your nothing more than a "Flame", "Troll". "drip under pressure" :lol: and yes! you deseve that. :lol: good day to you sir! Let me know when your serious about being socially and mentally stable. Your probably not all that bad of a person, but I wont hold my breath. "the Budell"

[roller24]

www.sharkstank.com/blog/berg/index.htm

Here you can find a rather good report on all the discrepancies in the video.

[mickydoolittle]

dribbling shit all over the board and causing others to think HH is a total tool

You are indeed a troll.

You are the epitome of all that is wrong with the planet.

Your kind will eventually be slaughtered or crucified as you can't deny you and those like you deserve such.

Piss off feeb.

Until you have the ability to accept that you can't defeat the superior AMERICAn, you will be unhappy in every aspect of your life. This goes for the rest of the downers as well.

[MetalMilitia]

Now now, play nice everybody...

Let's stay on topic, and keep the blows above the belt at all times.

-MM- :crs:

[mickydoolittle]

www.sharkstank.com/blog/berg/index.htm

Here you can find a rather good report on all the discrepancies in the video.

Fuq the discrepancies, THEY CUT HIS HEAD OFF.

Does it matter to his family whether he was dead prior to decapitation? No. He's still dead and his head is seperated from his body.

I'm sure you'd be as accepting of this type of 'smoke and mirrors' if it were your child.

Point taken MM.

[necromancer2643]

yea, if you know the guy was a live and now he is dead, then what is the deal? why didnt he have any background though? no DL, no civil suits, no addresses listed...? :fencing:

[humanhybrid]

Until you have the ability to accept that you can't defeat the superior AMERICAn, you will be unhappy in every aspect of your life. This goes for the rest of the downers as well. Nah, its not worth it! Its good that he expresses himself in whatever way he wishes. But please note the tone and maturity for further purposes. Good day! :chopper:

[RavenWhitefang]

Heres something to take a look at. If this one could be faked and bring such wide spread attention, then why not others.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5629119/


American fakes own decapitation in tape
22-year-old staged Iraq execution at San Francisco house

Ron Harris / AP
Benjamin Vanderford, 22, is interviewed at his home in San Francisco, on Saturday, after a video he made aired showing his staged decapitation.

The Associated Press
Updated: 10:38 a.m. ET Aug. 7, 2004

SAN FRANCISCO - A video aired Saturday that purportedly showed an American being decapitated in Iraq was a hoax.

The American, Benjamin Vanderford, reached by The Associated Press in San Francisco, said he videotaped the staged beheading at his friend's house using fake blood.

Vanderford, 22, said he began distributing the video on the Internet months ago in hopes of drawing attention to his one-time campaign for city supervisor. When his political aspirations waned, he thought the video would serve as social commentary.

AP
Benjamin Vanderford from San Francisco is seen in a video in which he pretends to be decapitated in Iraq.
"It was part of a stunt, but no one noticed it up until now," Vanderford said. "I did this for a couple of reasons. One is to attract attention. But two is to just make a statement on these type of videos and how easily they can be faked."

On the tape, Vanderford sat on a chair in a dark room, his hands behind his back, trembling and rocking back and forth. The tape showed a hand with a knife cutting at the motionless man's neck, but did not show any militants.

"We need to leave this country alone. We need to stop this occupation," he said on the video, adding that he had been offered for exchange with prisoners in Iraq. "Everyone's going to be killed this way."

[VegasRonin]

Where's the video? Couldn't find it via the link.

[stewey]

Where's the video? Couldn't find it via the link.

It is not really a "beheading" but more of a neck slitting. Very different from Berg video.

link (dunno if still works): http://www.itshappening.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43048

another link: http://www.ogrish.com/movies/benjamin_vanderford_beheading_video.wmv

[VegasRonin]

Thanks Stewey. That vid looked fake as hell! Not even close to the Berg vid.

[Defiant Noquisi]

What a joke in the first place to draw attention to ones self using loss of life in that way.

[VegasRonin]

Saw Homie on TV last night. Seems he's in a bit of trouble with the Feds.

[substand]

not to strike a chord or anything, but seriously asking- "why?" is there a law against faking your own death/decapitation? (haven't seen the vid yet, so i put the slash in there)

[substand]

hahah ... just saw the one on ogrish... what a joke.

[DontBeAfraid]

Ya, he cant be in trouble for his film....what he did was not illegal.... of course I dont know the ins and outs of the patriot act part 2.

[kathaksung]

Nick Berg's beheading case was used to distract the criticism on abusing of Iraqi prisoners. It was done in a hurry so there was a lot of flaws which caused doubt by many observers. Questions arouse based on origin film and the origin news when the film gave out.

The late news, however, is more like a deliberate information released to mislead people to another direction. It could be viewed as a cover up. Something only government can do.

1. Deny Berg was in US military custody. Said he was detained by Iraqi police. It's all their words. As a matter of fact., it was something easy to verify. The authority can immediately declare where Berg was detained, and the witness - Iraqi police who detained Berg. Iraqi police is controlled by occupation troops, Berg was interrogated by FBI.(So at least FBI knew where he was detained and whom detained him) How couldn't they give the location and witness right away? If Berg was interrogated by FBI, most likely there was a record. But they failed to verify it. (Any late verification could be viewed as a fake)

2. Said Berg's internet password was shared by 911 suspect. And he had been investigated by FBI in early 90s. It's all their words. No others can release such information then intelligence. The purpose is to hint that Berg had link to terrorist.

3. The release of all the details of Nick Berg's whereabout in Iraq and his connection to someone who had link to Russian Mob gang. Again, nobody can do this but intelligence. It's all their words. To cover up the flaw of Berg's "kidnapper" being whites not Arabics. Also the flaw that one of kidnappers has Russian accent.

One thing may prove how eagerly they try to cover up the beheading case.

Why Bush is so eager to demolish Abu Ghurayb prison? Because abusing scandal? But abusing case is popular among other prisons. Why not demolish all of them? And Bush will rebuild another one to replace Abu Ghurayb. What's difference? Will that new jail stop abusing?

It may prove the allegation that Nick Berg the beheading case took place inside the Abu Ghurayb.

The beheading case was thrown out at the peak of abusing prisoners scandal. Obviously used to distract the criticism. It was done in a hurry so there was a lot of flaws which caused a massive discussion in internet.

That's why they are hurry to demolish Abu Ghurayb. To destroy evidence forever.

Once the prison was transfer into new Iraqi government, the evidence that Berg was killed in this jail may be discovered. Bush administration are afraid of it.
-----------

Consider 90% of prisoners were arrested in mistake, which means the coalition army arrest every one whom is suspecious. How could they release two of the suspects whom were so important? (They were the one to prove US was innocent in Berg's case. Especially now it became the head news of the world? So most likely it was not the case.

I think Berg case was done by US intelligence to distract the attention on Prisoners' abusing case. The timing and motive is very clear. They will find some scapegoat, but not now. When they got everything ready to cover up the flaw of that video tape. And after demolishing all the evidence, include Abu Ghuraib prison.