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Doomer
Aug 28th, 2009, 5:14 PM
Some people are born into wealth and opulence and never lack for anything their entire lives. Others are born into a reality that ensures nothing but pain and suffering from birth to death without any hope of escape.

Religion has no answer to this question but reincarnation does. We pay in this life for debts we owe to previous lives.

New Wine
Aug 28th, 2009, 5:23 PM
But is being "blessed" really being "blessed"? When do we learn more, or come to a place where we can help those who have been in the same position?

Actually, the times in my life that would be considered a "curse" are actually the best times in my life as far as learning (and the best times in my life for growing in my relationship with God). When all is blessed and doing fine is when it seems most become more greedy and self-centered.

lycanox
Aug 28th, 2009, 5:38 PM
Not really. Take for instance the holocaust.

If suffering is divine punishment for previous lives. Does that make Hitler a good person for punishing all those bad people. Or a bad person that is going to be punished later on?
If so. Would that make the person that kills the reborn Hitler a good person. Or is he again a bad person that will be punished later on?

So if the whole concept of karma and reincarnation resolves on constantly punishing the punisher for punishing someone according to your own karma law. It would Create an endless cycle of suffering. Which expand to other people as life is rarely made miserable by only one person. A cycle that could be started by very trivial pointless things like a child in the prehistory pulling some silly pranks.

It would also lead to moral problems where bad people are actually good because their victims deserve it.
Needy people should be abandoned because helping them would interfere with their punishment. And people lay the blame on themselves for being bad in a previous life. While the real reason for their misery is just a person being an ass.

Cherisa
Aug 28th, 2009, 5:55 PM
we live in a dualistic universe. male- female light- dark day- night good -bad.
have you ever noticed that people who have it "made" are miserable too? You get to experience both sides no matter what circumstance you are born into. it just is that way, to deny it denies reality. and when you deny reality, your just crazy...

Freddy
Aug 28th, 2009, 6:53 PM
Some people are born into wealth and opulence and never lack for anything their entire lives. Others are born into a reality that ensures nothing but pain and suffering from birth to death without any hope of escape.

Religion has no answer to this question but reincarnation does. We pay in this life for debts we owe to previous lives.
Interesting, so I lost my left leg in this life because I had debts in my previous life to pay. Funny, I just cannot remember that life. How do those debts relate to my problems in this life if I am not aware of them?

Goldmoon
Aug 28th, 2009, 7:34 PM
Blessed are the poor.

Singularity
Aug 28th, 2009, 8:43 PM
Blessed are the poor.

The poor are no more blessed than anyone else. This is the same kind of religious bullshit that India uses to justify their caste system, keeping people in the same class that they're born rather than allowing them to rise and fall based on their abilities and luck, like they do in this country.

The bottom line is this: life is chance. It doesn't matter if you're educated or uneducated, the notion that you have a real measure of control over your success is an illusion. There's an awesome book called Dance with Chance that talks about how chance affects virtually all aspects of our lives, from finances to health, to being creative, to how to make decisions. This book was written by three academics who are not exercising any political bent. Many of the things they talk about are very counter-intuitive, such as the notion that we should get screened for various nasty health conditions regularly. Yearly mammograms, for instance, have not reduced the percentage of people who die from breast cancer every year, for example. The truth of the matter is that people who stay out of the medical system entirely statistically live longer. I'm not going to back that up because I'm not going to rewrite the chapter, but it is compelling and worth reading. The one thing that the book emphasizes early on is that those people who believe that they are in control of the various factors of their lives are the ones who are more likely to lose control. Those who embrace chance generally tend to simply fare better.

So why are some people cursed? Shitty luck and, most likely, a series of choices they made that didn't lead to positive outcomes.

Goldmoon
Aug 28th, 2009, 9:23 PM
No, what I said was true.

Blessed are the poor.

Singularity
Aug 28th, 2009, 9:25 PM
No, what I said was true.

Blessed are the poor.

No it isn't. You are not blessed if you do not earn enough money to meet your basic needs. That's not called being blessed, it's called being miserable. The poor get shit on by the powers that be and then they die. The end.

Assassin X
Aug 29th, 2009, 2:41 PM
^What he said^

Alternatively if you think like me. You might come up with a plan to go in and kill at least "one power that be" and kill anyone else this way you can die guns blazing. Its a good way to feel happy before you die. I refuse to die from being shit on. Much rather insert lead into the powers that be first and watch that frozen look of agony as the back of their head explodes out. :)

I mean that with all the christian love in my heart! (evil grin)

debonnaire
Aug 29th, 2009, 3:42 PM
someone who has been trained and whose heart has been formed, can live in abundance , can live in poverty. It does not matter.

I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength. (....that is what Paul said to the folks at Philippes...)


in the opposite , both riches and poverty can be a trap for the soul (a curse)

Proverbs 30
7 "Two things I ask of you, O LORD;
do not refuse me before I die:
8 Keep falsehood and lies far from me;
give me neither poverty nor riches,
but give me only my daily bread.
9 Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you
and say, 'Who is the LORD ?'
Or I may become poor and steal,
and so dishonor the name of my God.

Cyranothe2nd
Aug 30th, 2009, 4:27 AM
Some people are born into wealth and opulence and never lack for anything their entire lives. Others are born into a reality that ensures nothing but pain and suffering from birth to death without any hope of escape.

Religion has no answer to this question but reincarnation does. We pay in this life for debts we owe to previous lives.

I think that the idea that people are paying for past sins in this life is revolting and morally reprehensible. Its a way to blame suffering people for their own suffering. I find it completely beyond comprehension that some people could believe this and call themselves moral.
Oh, and BTW, reincarnation IS taught by a religion-mainly Hinduism. And its hardly a new idea to religion, even Western ones like Christianity, that people suffer because they are sinful.

acacia
Aug 31st, 2009, 9:13 AM
No, what I said was true.

Blessed are the poor.


Do you even know the origin of the word "blessed"?

According to the etymology, the history of root origin means "blood".
Moses used to slit the throat of the sacrificial animal and sling the blood on the congregants to "bless" them.

Goldmoon
Aug 31st, 2009, 12:14 PM
lol

It doesn't mean blood.

Doomer
Aug 31st, 2009, 3:34 PM
The circumstances of ones birth largely determines the path they take in life. There is no denying that the vast majority of people never deviate from that path. Only a few take charge of their own life and rise above themselves.

If you are born into abject poverty in a moraless and violent society, chance are you'll suffer greatly from birth to death. Why would an omnipotent god place someone in such a situation? and what role could luck possibly play if god exists at all?

Goldmoon
Aug 31st, 2009, 3:38 PM
Doomer: If you are born into abject poverty in a moraless and violent society, chance are you'll suffer greatly from birth to death. Why would an omnipotent god place someone in such a situation? and what role could luck possibly play if god exists at all?

First of all, which "God" are you talking about?

It sounds like it would be humans who are being moraless and violent.. I don't understand what He has to do with that.

If you're talking about Yahweh, why blame Him for things humans are doing on this planet? He just put us here.