Iran Test Fire Missiles SUNDAY MORNING

[Ninja]

There getting scared about the Islamic Republic Necular Program. Anyone else think were going to hare from North Korea and the Necular Testing again very soon?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/09/27/iran.missile.test/index.html

[rioja]

I'm more afraid that Israel is being backed into a corner. Tomorrow Iran will be testing its longer range missile - one that in theory could reach Israel. As another provocative
jibe the so-called war game 'exercise' has been called 'The Great Prophet'.

[Prism]

This is just getting better and better, more missile tests. New nuclear site, looks like Israel might have to do something in the near future.

[pico]

I think they will, as they know Obama is not the same level of commitment that B Dubya was. They should not feel obligated to provide the US or anyone else their plans, as the US does not do the same to their allies all the time. I would like to see this go down so that my US based oil company stocks would skyrocket, bringing my Capitalist ass some much needed funds. Call me a prick, but why postpone the party any longer? The invitations went out a long time ago and the suspense is really starting to build.

[Prism]

I think they will, as they know Obama is not the same level of commitment that B Dubya was. They should not feel obligated to provide the US or anyone else their plans, as the US does not do the same to their allies all the time. I would like to see this go down so that my US based oil company stocks would skyrocket, bringing my Capitalist ass some much needed funds. Call me a prick, but why postpone the party any longer? The invitations went out a long time ago and the suspense is really starting to build.

I agree with that, I have stock in Shell. But, to me it seems that its all been building up to this point for the last few months. The missing ship that might of carried missile defense systems to Iran. The Israeli PM secretly visiting Moscow. Then a new nuclear facility and then these missile tests. I hope people don't see this like Iraq, the Iranian military especially the revolutionary guard are no cake walk. It will be a bloody war.

[Sirius]

I'm more afraid that Israel is being backed into a corner. Tomorrow Iran will be testing its longer range missile - one that in theory could reach Israel. As another provocative
jibe the so-called war game 'exercise' has been called 'The Great Prophet'.

You have a leader that has called for the destruction of Israel, and at one time during a U.N. conferance begged for the return of the Muslim messiah. He has also stated that if needed, Iran could expedite the retun of the Messiah themselves. He also is not the supreme leader, that is the Muslim Cleric Ayatollah Ali Khamenei who has called Israel a "cancerous tumor" and "must be removed" from the region.

They arre advancing their nuclear technology in secret, and they sent a crypic letter to announce the exsistence of a facility capable of making material for a nuclear weapon, albeit slowly. The facility has apparently been there for years, so it is possible they already have a weapon, but that is just my opinion.

Israel has attacked other bnuclear facilities in the past (Iraq and Syria) so I believe a preemptive strike by israel is forthcoming. The reaction to such a strike is unknown, but Iran is a far more powerful, and influecnial country than Iraq or Syria. What will China and Russia do if Israel attacks Iran? Will they see them agressors, or will they see them as defending their country? This is the great unknown.

China and Russia would make a powerful alliance with Iran and North Korea, one we will have a very hard time fighting, given the stratch on our military, and one we would not be able to take on without conscripts.

The worst fears of the people of the world might come true in the next few years. We have seen so many stories about prophecy about armageddon, they have been indoctrinated by these programs that they will become self fulfilling prochecies.

In the movie 13 days, one of the Presidents advisors hoped that cooler heads would prevail if the United States attacked Russia, and the President didn't believe that possible. I hope our current President will use that same logic when threating "grave consequences" against Iran.

[Ninja]

With Iran testing more Missles tomorrow. How long you think it will be before this esclates to something more serious?

Im thinking if Iran tests more missles this week then Israel will do a premtive strike. Any chance they might just make a Necular Strike? :prayer:

Im in the Air Force Delayed Entry Program and am waiting to ship to basic training in Jan 2010. Im starting to wonder if things keep going how they are then maybe my ship date will get moved up sooner, LOL :2thumbs:

[Prism]

With Iran testing more Missles tomorrow. How long you think it will be before this esclates to something more serious?

Im thinking if Iran tests more missles this week then Israel will do a premtive strike. Any chance they might just make a Necular Strike? :prayer:

Im in the Air Force Delayed Entry Program and am waiting to ship to basic training in Jan 2010. Im starting to wonder if things keep going how they are then maybe my ship date will get moved up sooner, LOL :2thumbs:

I don't know, I personally feel that something will happen in the near future. 3 months perhaps? It all depends on how the meeting goes on the first of October. But I think Israel is getting a little antsy.

I'm in the Army DEP, so I'd rather not have us go to war.

[Blu-ray]

I am torn on this. On the one hand I don't see Iran having Nukes as a good thing. Albeit they are a sovereign nation and can do as they wish. On the other hand, just how we Americans do not like being dictated to, we should not dictate to others.

Then there is also my belief that we should never use our military for "Pre-Emptive" wars. It is one thing to defend ourselves from an invading or an attack force, it's something entirely different to start a war just to stop someone from building things they have a right to do on their own soil.

How would those that would be for a pre-emptive strike like it if another country attacked their country because the other country felt they should not be doing certain things?

[uki]

hopefully they work all the kinks out with these tests... it's best to have a well tested missile i suppose. :dunno:

[Ninja]

I'm in the Army DEP, so I'd rather not have us go to war.

WTF?! Why not? I want to.

[Prism]

I am torn on this. On the one hand I don't see Iran having Nukes as a good thing. Albeit they are a sovereign nation and can do as they wish. On the other hand, just how we Americans do not like being dictated to, we should not dictate to others.

Then there is also my belief that we should never use our military for "Pre-Emptive" wars. It is one thing to defend ourselves from an invading or an attack force, it's something entirely different to start a war just to stop someone from building things they have a right to do on their own soil.

How would those that would be for a pre-emptive strike like it if another country attacked their country because the other country felt they should not be doing certain things?

It's a known fact Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism, they control Hezbollah, Hamas. The fear is more that the technology can fall into the wrong hands. Also, Iran is violating the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that they signed. I believe Israel needs to do what they feel is best for their country, it's a damn shame for the United states because we will be automatically associated with an Israeli attack.

[Ninja]

It's a known fact Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism, they control Hezbollah, Hamas. The fear is more that the technology can fall into the wrong hands. Also, Iran is violating the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that they signed. I believe Israel needs to do what they feel is best for their country, it's a damn shame for the United states because we will be automatically associated with an Israeli attack.

I agree with this.

Sure Iran has missles that can reach Israel but do they have missles that can reach the US?

Although if Israel attacks Iran and the US is grouped with the attack, Iran will be pissed which might esclate tensions with North Korea, since them and Iran are tight, which will have the US fighting on 2 fronts...

[MaximumPain]

The real danger from an Iranian Nuke is not eastern Europe (Why in the fuck would they nuke them?), or Israel (instant and automatic counter strike by superior weapons), but the US Navy in the Persian Gulf. One small nuke could take out an American Carrier group and it would be easy to hit in the narrow confines of that area. Would we then nuke a population center.

Iran really just wants the nuke to protect themselves from American Aggression. So far Iran has not started an offensive war in the last 2 century's. That Achmadinajad fool is just another hot air politician Im sure you all know the type we have plenty of them over here.

[MaximumPain]

I agree with this.

Sure Iran has missles that can reach Israel but do they have missles that can reach the US?

Although if Israel attacks Iran and the US is grouped with the attack, Iran will be pissed which might escalate tensions with North Korea, since them and Iran are tight, which will have the US fighting on 2 fronts...

3 or 4 fronts depending on if you consider Iraq the same front as Iran? If one of those 2 nations nukes it will be over very quickly and a lot of people will be dead and dying and most of them wont be American. I think the leaders of those two nations know this and are just doing the nuke thing to gain a voice in world politics. In short they want to join the nuclear club with the big boys.

Oh and welcome to AO Ninja.

[ryangti]

Ask yourself what had Bush started?
Although we now talk about Iran Israel dont forget about the war in afghanistan.

The United States is threatening to launch airstrikes on Mullah Omar and the Taliban leadership in the Pakistani city of Quetta as frustration mounts about the ease with which they find sanctuary across the border from Afghanistan.
It all makes sense i suppose where these arguments and conflicts could end up as maybe the holy war that many have predicted.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6850838.ece
As the the state of the Americas economy can we afford to antagonize any more?


Britain, France and the United States set the stage for a dramatic confrontation with Iran when they revealed the existence of a secret nuclear site inside a mountain near the holy city of Qom as evidence of Tehran’s efforts to deceive the international community.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6850397.ece

[Ninja]

So if a All Out War was to happen were looking at:

Iran/Iraq/Afaghanistan/North Korea/Venasuela

vs

United States/Great Britian/France/Germany/Israel/Japan

My guess is China is a wild card. And I would put money on it Russia would NOT be on our side.

Atleast with a big war like that it would more than likely fix the economy. lol

[Prism]

WTF?! Why not? I want to.

Yes, because you wont have a combat job, I am going in as a MP which doubles as infantry.

Catch my drift?





So if a All Out War was to happen were looking at:

Iran/Iraq/Afaghanistan/North Korea/Venasuela

vs

United States/Great Britian/France/Germany/Israel/Japan

My guess is China is a wild card. And I would put money on it Russia would NOT be on our side.

Atleast with a big war like that it would more than likely fix the economy. lol

China and Russia wont side against us, most likely neutral if anything. N.Korea is not in a position to do anything. Japan is a pacifist nation, so take them out of the list. Just say NATO, seeing as they will be obliged to come to each others defence. War does not fix the economy.

http://www.swifteconomics.com/2009/03/21/war-is-not-good-for-the-economy/

[Ninja]

Yes, because you wont have a combat job, I am going in as a MP which doubles as infantry.

Catch my drift?


Bull Shit yes I will Security Forces Phoneix Raven one of the few combat jobs of the Air Force.

[lycanox]

Actually such a large war would completely ruin if not collapse the US economy.
Unless Russia joins in and bombs the hells out of the US. As most of the supposed war economic booms actually resulted from the efforts of rebuilding the nation afterwards.

I have yet to see concrete evidence of an Iranian Nuclear weapon program. As so far every accusation is only based on speculation.
But if a nuclear war would start. It would likely be caused by Iran imposing an economic blockade in the Gulf of Oman. Which America would then try to break by force.

I doubt however that NATO will play a role in this. None of their nation has been attacked. And its already hard to find countries willing to send troops to Afghanistan. Which is a very low intensity war.

[proffett]

I don't get it... Why should they be unable to have Nukes but Israel and other nations get the green card... Makes no sense to me.

[MaximumPain]

Actually such a large war would completely ruin if not collapse the US economy.
Unless Russia joins in and bombs the hells out of the US. As most of the supposed war economic booms actually resulted from the efforts of rebuilding the nation afterwards.

Take it up a notch Lycanox it will ruin the economy's of every nation that participates.



I have yet to see concrete evidence of an Iranian Nuclear weapon program. As so far every accusation is only based on speculation.
But if a nuclear war would start. It would likely be caused by Iran imposing an economic blockade in the Gulf of Oman. Which America would then try to break by force.
I agree we seem to be worried about the possibility made more likly by having the correct technology onsite. My question to you would be if they can build a weapon why wont they?



I doubt however that NATO will play a role in this. None of their nation has been attacked. And its already hard to find countries willing to send troops to Afghanistan. Which is a very low intensity war.

If America is attacked then NATO will be obligated by treaty to get involved. If America or one of our non NATO allies starts it then NATO can and probably will sit it out. Unless it gets real big. Would NATO abandon the USA? If so then America needs to pull all bases and aid to all NATO nations. Do you think that would be good for peace in the long run?

[Ninja]

I don't get it... Why should they be unable to have Nukes but Israel and other nations get the green card... Makes no sense to me.

BECAUSE They are known backers of Terrorist Groups.

And I was always taught in History Class that big wars always fixed economys. Thats why I said that it would help, guess I was taught wrong, lol.

[MaximumPain]

BECAUSE They are known backers of Terrorist Groups.

And I was always taught in History Class that big wars always fixed economys. Thats why I said that it would help, guess I was taught wrong, lol.

So is America http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/deathsquads_ElSal.html

Or is that not what you wanted to hear?

Also wars dont help economy's unless you get to sell the rebuilding to the ruined country. How can destruction be good for an economy?

[Prism]

Bull Shit yes I will Security Forces Phoneix Raven one of the few combat jobs of the Air Force.

I understand that, but. Security Forces more or less defend Air force and act as Air force police. While Army MP's are more involved in the fighting and are attached to infantry units etc. I'm not trying to slight your choice joining the Air force.
Unless Russia joins in and bombs the hells out of the US. As most of the supposed war economic booms actually resulted from the efforts of rebuilding the nation afterwards.



I doubt however that NATO will play a role in this. None of their nation has been attacked. And its already hard to find countries willing to send troops to Afghanistan. Which is a very low intensity war.[

Actually, I wouldn't be to surprised to see more compliance from the NATO allies if the Iran situation goes hot. Especially seeing as Iran has the missiles to reach the eastern parts of Europe.

[proffett]

BECAUSE They are known backers of Terrorist Groups.

I remember a time when I thought it was as simple as that. I recommend looking into how these groups came to be, you may be shocked to learn just how much the US played a part in it all.


And I was always taught in History Class that big wars always fixed economys. Thats why I said that it would help, guess I was taught wrong, lol.

This is a very common misconception actually.

[MaximumPain]

I remember a time when I thought it was as simple as that. I recommend looking into how these groups came to be, you may be shocked to learn just how much the US played a part in it all.
America gave Bin Laudin his start in the war against the Soviets. Of course when they work for us their called freedom fighters when they are against us they're terrorists.




This is a very common misconception actually.
Which is reinforced the the media that is owned by the military industrial complex who are the beneficiary's of the worlds largest defense budget.

[Prism]

Of course we helped Osama, we also helped the Iraqis against the Iranians. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[MaximumPain]

Of course we helped Osama, we also helped the Iraqis against the Iranians. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

That was after the Iranians had the nerve to overthrow our rightfully couped into power Iranian leader the Shaw of Iran. He was a nice guy he created a the Savak which the CIA and Mossad helped to train and were one of the more brutal secret police forces ever created. But America is the good guys right?

[Sirius]

Clinton: Iran can't prove peaceful nuke claim (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33045171/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/)

[ryangti]

I would be concerned if we were to go to war looking at the current economic situation as i mentioned earlier.
Will the troops vehicles and weapons be up to scratch just going on some reports from the uk where it has been said some weapons dont even work properly due to cuts in defense.


Ask ourselves what kind of position are we in now to fight yet another conflict,are we kidding ourselves in thinking we can win?
We are trying but it is not resolving anything or is it?

The bit on germany who have been threatened three times.
Authorities are analyzing the third message, which was released Thursday and calls on Muslims in Germany to take part in jihad, or holy war, German Interior Ministry spokesman Stefan Paris told reporters.

If we were to witness such a conflict what about those within our own countries?
Its not just then a world war but a kind of small jihad war within our own backyard,you can guarantee that some sort of riot will kick off if America or Israel were to attack.

The picture is becoming bigger with these conflicts which are no longer thousands of miles away but closer to home instead,therefore we do need to stay frosty.
Recession then war it happened before it will happen again?

[Prism]

That was after the Iranians had the nerve to overthrow our rightfully couped into power Iranian leader the Shaw of Iran. He was a nice guy he created a the Savak which the CIA and Mossad helped to train and were one of the more brutal secret police forces ever created. But America is the good guys right?

I never said anything about the morality of our decisions. We obviously did not approve of the new Iranian government that was installed. But I'm sure the hostage crisis did not help to smooth over the relations.

[MaximumPain]

I never said anything about the morality of our decisions. We obviously did not approve of the new Iranian government that was installed. But I'm sure the hostage crisis did not help to smooth over the relations.

The hostage crisis was a reaction to years of brutal oppression at the hands of an American installed dictator. Oh and the Coup was of a Democratically elected leader. I love my country but we really have to stop getting involved in bullshit like this its hurting us and will continue to hurt us into the future.

[Prism]

The hostage crisis was a reaction to years of brutal oppression at the hands of an American installed dictator. Oh and the Coup was of a Democratically elected leader. I love my country but we really have to stop getting involved in bullshit like this its hurting us and will continue to hurt us into the future.

I agree. But this situation in the Middle is getting to the boiling point.

[Sirius]

Does this open the door for Israel to strike Iran. The intel seems rock solid, and Iran has basically confimed the exsistence of the site. they are test firing medium and long range missiles that can hit Israel.
The United States has already set a precedent with going to war with crappy intel, and this intel is more convincing than anything we ever had in regards to iraq.

The United States is already seen as a bully to the rest of the world, will the region allow a war to happen between the United states and Iran, or will iran gain some powerful allies?

Will the region retaliate against Israel if they attack iran, and i mean Russia, China, and North Korea? This is their backyard, and Russia and North Lorea have first hand experience dealing diplomaticly with the United States.

[Abyssal_Worm]

Call me an optimist, but I only see this as saber rattling. Iran wants to discuss its nuclear programs with the IAEA, UN, and the US, but it does not want to appear as though it has been "forced" into talks. Instead, they want to appear at least on level ground with the US, and at the most they want to appear as though they are willing to make concessions to fortifying a lasting peace. Once talks begin, I am certain that Iran will agree not to test fire any missiles for the duration of the talks in exchange for several sanctions imposed upon Iran to be lifted.

[Sirius]

Call me an optimist, but I only see this as saber rattling. Iran wants to discuss its nuclear programs with the IAEA, UN, and the US, but it does not want to appear as though it has been "forced" into talks. Instead, they want to appear at least on level ground with the US, and at the most they want to appear as though they are willing to make concessions to fortifying a lasting peace. Once talks begin, I am certain that Iran will agree not to test fire any missiles for the duration of the talks in exchange for several sanctions imposed upon Iran to be lifted.

Ok, your an optimist. :p

[MaximumPain]

Call me an optimist, but I only see this as saber rattling. Iran wants to discuss its nuclear programs with the IAEA, UN, and the US, but it does not want to appear as though it has been "forced" into talks. Instead, they want to appear at least on level ground with the US, and at the most they want to appear as though they are willing to make concessions to fortifying a lasting peace. Once talks begin, I am certain that Iran will agree not to test fire any missiles for the duration of the talks in exchange for several sanctions imposed upon Iran to be lifted.

Great comment, this is all about international prestige. Just look at all the attention N Korea is getting from trying to join the nuclear club. Iran knows if they nuke they will receive the same in kind or more likely much much worse. In spite of the religious rhetoric they are not suicidal.

[MaximumPain]

What makes you guys so sure that Iran will just go off and nuke anyone? Just cause that windbag Achmadinajhad (however you spell his name) says they will do means nothing. Would they sacrifice their entire country for a political statement?

[lycanox]

Difference is. Iran is not bragging about nukes. And the western suspicion resulted in huge economic sanction and war threats from Israel.

I don't really see what good the nuke issue has done to Iran.

[MaximumPain]

Difference is. Iran is not bragging about nukes. And the western suspicion resulted in huge economic sanction and war threats from Israel.

I don't really see what good the nuke issue has done to Iran.

It gets them into the VIP room with the real country's. It keeps other nations from invading them for fear of eating 25 Kilotons of radioactive fire.

[Sirius]

The real question is, does Israel think they will attack them? Are they willing to put their people at risk by deciding that Iran is bluffing?

[Nu Kua]

Iran test-fires its missiles on a regular basis. They announced over a month ago they'd be doing this one.


Call me an optimist, but I only see this as saber rattling. Iran wants to discuss its nuclear programs with the IAEA, UN, and the US, but it does not want to appear as though it has been "forced" into talks. Instead, they want to appear at least on level ground with the US, and at the most they want to appear as though they are willing to make concessions to fortifying a lasting peace. Once talks begin, I am certain that Iran will agree not to test fire any missiles for the duration of the talks in exchange for several sanctions imposed upon Iran to be lifted.

Yes, in fact-
Iran to put new uranium plant under IAEA supervision (http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/8668)


Iran said on Saturday it will put its newly disclosed uranium enrichment plant under the supervision of the UN nuclear watchdog, in a move welcomed by the United States.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, meanwhile, said the disclosure was a "firm blow" to Western powers opposed to Tehran's atomic work.

"This site will be under the supervision of the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) and will have a maximum of five percent (uranium) enrichment capacity," Iran's atomic energy chief Ali Akbar Salehi said on state television.

The plant, which is "not an industrial scale" unit, will be operational in two years' time, he said.

Dismissing allegations that the plant has a military purpose, Salehi said the facility is being constructed as a "precautionary measure in case of an unwanted incident against our nuclear programme." Earlier on Saturday, Salehi said Tehran would allow IAEA inspectors to inspect the plant, 100 kilometres (60 miles) south of Tehran on the road to the Shiite holy city of Qom..."

...Ahmadinejad denied Tehran was building the plant in secret, as charged by Western leaders, and told reporters in New York on Friday the facility was "completely legal."

"We actually informed the agency (IAEA) 18 months ahead of time. Is this the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do? I thought we are supposed to be encouraged for taking this action."...


No, Ahmadinejad, dreamer that you are, the West doesn't play fair. They try to make sure those sorts of news bites don't make it to the general public. The plan is to demonize you and your country as a pretext for war- in spite of the fact that you've not threatened to attack anybody.

Also I refer you to his speech given at the General Debate of the 64th session of U.N. (http://forums.armageddononline.org/president-mahmoud-ahmadinejad-t22123.html)- I posted it here but nobody responds because reason and facts simply aren't much of an attention grabbing headline. But that's a shame because to read what he actually is saying, you can see that he isn't war-mongering.
If people want to know his intentions, why not go directly to the source?

Not to mention, of course- the President of Iran is much like the President of the U.S. in that, the president really doesn't have that much power. both Presidents must bend to the will of other bodies.

Well I guess I did mention it.


The real question is, does Israel think they will attack them? Are they willing to put their people at risk by deciding that Iran is bluffing?

Bluffing, what do you mean, bluffing? Many countries test fire their missiles, and Iran has not threatened to attack. They've stated unequivocally that they'd defend themselves if attacked- and threats to attack Iran occur everyday.

The ultra right wing-nut government of Israel doesn't care about it's people, choosing instead to use them as pawns in a game of domination and illegal land grabs.

[MaximumPain]

The real question is, does Israel think they will attack them? Are they willing to put their people at risk by deciding that Iran is bluffing?

Well if my neighbor talks alot of shit and I feel my family is threatened can just go ahead and shoot him now? How does local law enforcement feel about that?

[Prism]

Well if my neighbor talks alot of shit and I feel my family is threatened can just go ahead and shoot him now? How does local law enforcement feel about that?

You're neighbor does not wield a nuclear weapon and can wipe a nation off the map.

[Ninja]

You're neighbor does not wield a nuclear weapon and can wipe a nation off the map.

^THIS Right Here

[MaximumPain]

You're neighbor does not wield a nuclear weapon and can wipe a nation off the map.

Its the same thing on a smaller scale. A gun can wipe out a whole family just like a nuke can wipe a city or several nukes could wipe Israel. One exception is that Israel could nuke Iran back even after being wiped out, I cant shoot my neighbor after Im dead.

[Sirius]

Well if my neighbor talks alot of shit and I feel my family is threatened can just go ahead and shoot him now? How does local law enforcement feel about that?

What if you found out that neighbor had a rocket launcher?

[lycanox]

It gets them into the VIP room with the real country's. It keeps other nations from invading them for fear of eating 25 Kilotons of radioactive fire.

Wouldn't just being the occasional ass to Israel. The huge influence the country has in the middle east and its oil give him the same position.
And why pick a method that would make him a target for attacks and political sanction.

Its hard to believe that a country would go that far for being heard off for no real purpose. We know the north Korea is testing nukes to force the west into lifting embargoes that were set up for other reasons.

And isn't the Iranian nuclear weapon not a conspiracy of western origen.

[Nu Kua]

You're neighbor does not wield a nuclear weapon and can wipe a nation off the map.


What if you found out that neighbor had a rocket launcher?

Are you guys not aware it is Israel that has a huge nuclear weapons cache- the largest in all the Middle East and surrounding areas? Compared to Israel, Iran has little more than bottle rockets for weapons.

Furthermore, the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa in 2004 (http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/nuke/mehr080905.html) that "the production, stockpiling, and use of nuclear weapons are forbidden under Islam and that the Islamic Republic of Iran shall never acquire these weapons"

The IAEA has found no evidence that Iran has, or ever had, a nuclear weapons program, and this is after years and years of inspections. Yet, the Western media repeatedly and vehemently gives the opposite impression. Often you hear the "argument" that they really do have them, but we can't find them because they are so well hidden.

[Sirius]

I'm not conding a strike by Israel, i'm just stating that it is something they might consider justifiable.

[Prism]

Are you guys not aware it is Israel that has a huge nuclear weapons cache- the largest in all the Middle East and surrounding areas? Compared to Israel, Iran has little more than bottle rockets for weapons.

The president and a few others in their elite believe that they must destroy the world to bring the Mahdi (the Shii version of the messiah, more or less) That will be much easier. Also, Israel is not calling another nation a cancerous tumor and says that it must be removed off the map.

[Sirius]

Its the same thing on a smaller scale. A gun can wipe out a whole family just like a nuke can wipe a city or several nukes could wipe Israel. One exception is that Israel could nuke Iran back even after being wiped out, I cant shoot my neighbor after Im dead.

It's not the same scale, a nuclear weapon has after effects, like fallout. it can, and will affect other regions than Israel, and the same thing for an Israeli nuclear strike. This is a very dangerous situation that can get out of hand very quickly. Missile tests are displays of strength, and this test happened after the suprising news of a secret nuclear facility was disclosed. They could have postponed the test, but they didn't want to appear weak to their neighbor Israel.

[MaximumPain]

What if you found out that neighbor had a rocket launcher?

Since Israel already has one I guess that would have to be ok then. Why should one nation be allowed to have a nuke and another not be? Why is it ok for Israel to have the bomb but not Iran? Both use terror as a weapon so dont trot that tired western argument out it holds no weight.

[MaximumPain]

The president and a few others in their elite believe that they must destroy the world to bring the Mahdi (the Shii version of the messiah, more or less) That will be much easier. Also, Israel is not calling another nation a cancerous tumor and says that it must be removed off the map.

Well shit we better nuke the Christian nations then because of the idea of the battle of Megedo. Hell while were at it we need to kick the Jews out of Jerusalem so they dont screw around and rebuild the temple and bring about the end times. Sorry I keep forgetting that our delusions are true but the Muslims are all full of shit.

[MaximumPain]

It's not the same scale, a nuclear weapon has after effects, like fallout. it can, and will affect other regions than Israel, and the same thing for an Israeli nuclear strike. This is a very dangerous situation that can get out of hand very quickly. Missile tests are displays of strength, and this test happened after the suprising news of a secret nuclear facility was disclosed. They could have postponed the test, but they didn't want to appear weak to their neighbor Israel.

Shooting and killing an entire family has severe social fallout in the neighborhood where it occurs.

Again I ask what makes Iran different then Israel, India, or even America? Are we the good guys so we can do what we want but they are all evil so need to live with our imposed restrictions?

[Nu Kua]

The president and a few others in their elite believe that they must destroy the world to bring the Mahdi (the Shii version of the messiah, more or less) That will be much easier. Also, Israel is not calling another nation a cancerous tumor and says that it must be removed off the map.

Neither did Iran say that about Israel. I've posted in this forum probably 10 times the proper translation of that. Ahmadinejad never said that Israel was to be wiped off the map.
I'll find one of them and link back to it in this post.
Seriously you folks need to do your research. I'd start with "Mossadegh".

[MaximumPain]

I want to make it clear that I do not condone any nation creating nuclear weapons. Id prefer if we started to phase them out. I am against Iran creating a nuke but bombing them will not help the long term situation over there.

[Sirius]

I want to make it clear that I do not condone any nation creating nuclear weapons. Id prefer if we started to phase them out. I am against Iran creating a nuke but bombing them will not help the long term situation over there.

I second that motion

[Nu Kua]

I also am against this, and so is Iran against the proliferation of nuclear weapons.

Below from link provided in a post I made above:

"The Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has issued the fatwa that the production, stockpiling, and use of nuclear weapons are forbidden under Islam and that the Islamic Republic of Iran shall never acquire these weapons. President Mahmud Ahmadinejad, who took office just recently, in his inaugural address reiterated that his government is against weapons of mass destruction and will only pursue nuclear activities in the peaceful domain."

This is from Mehr News: (http://www.mehrnews.com/en/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=952176)

.
..In response to a question on Iran’s nuclear program and Iran’s decision regarding the October 1st meeting, the President stated, “We will pursue the nuclear issue only through the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) as prescribed by the law and those who want to undermine international regulations are the instigators of insecurity in the world. Today we need to find the root causes of global insecurity and find fundamental solutions to them. The warmongering language has lost its effectiveness after the Second World War.”

The President brought up three issues regarding Iran’s nuclear program and stated, “The first issue is that the existence of nuclear weapons is the basis for the atmosphere of threat and insecurity. The world must mobilize for full nuclear disarmament. The second issue is that the means is prepared for the peaceful utilization of nuclear energy so that all countries can benefit from this technology in the path of peace.”...

Here is a link to the full text of Iran's proposal to the 5+1 Powers (http://www.ilna.ir/fullstory.aspx?ID=76720):


In the Name of the Almighty
Cooperation for Peace, Justice, and Progress

Package of proposals by the Islamic Republic of Iran for Comprehensive and Constructive Negotiations

There is no doubt that our world is at the threshold of entering a new era. The difficult era characterized by domination of empires, predominance of military powers, dominance of organized and interrelated media networks, competitions on the basis of offensive capability, and the power from conventional and non-conventional weapons, is coming to an end. A new era characterized by cultural approach and rational thinking, and respect for the true godly essence of humankind, is flourishing and blossoming.

Many of the predicaments facing our world today, such as the unprecedented economic crisis, cultural and identity crisis, political and security dilemmas, and the mushrooming of terrorism, organized crimes and illicit drugs are the products of the fading era of domination of ungodly ways of thinking [that are] prevailing in global relations and the ominous legacy for present and future generations of humanity.

Resolution of these problems and creating a world filled with spirituality, friendship, prosperity, wellness, and security requires reorganization and creating an opportunity for broad and collective participation in the management of the world. The existing mechanisms are not capable to meet the present needs of humankind and their ineffectiveness has been clearly proven in the realms of economics, politics, culture and security.

These mechanisms and structures are the direct product of relations based on brute power and domination, while our world today needs mechanisms that come from divine and godly thinking and an approach based on human values and compassion. These new mechanisms should pave the way for the advancement [and] full blossoming of the talents and potentials of all nations, and [the] establishment of lasting world peace end security.

The Iranian nation is prepared to enter into dialogue and negotiation in order to lay the ground for lasting peace and regionally-inspired and generated stability for the region and beyond, and for the continued progress and prosperity of the nations of the region and the world. Our desire to enter into this dialogue and cooperative relationships proceeds from our inherent national, regional and international capacity and strength, our principled and historical commitment in applying this capacity to foster peace, tranquility, progress and well-being for nations in our region and beyond. We stand ready to enter into this dialogue on the basis of godly and human principles and values, including the recognition of the rights of nations, respect for sovereignty and principles of democracy and the right of people to have free elections, as well as refraining from imposing pressure or threats and moving forward on the solid foundation of justice and law.

The Islamic Republic of Iran believes that within the framework of principles of justice, democracy and multilateralism, a wide range of security, political, economic and cultural issues at regional and global levels could be included in these negotiations with a view of fostering constructive cooperation for advancement of nations and promotion of peace and stability in the region and the world.

As it was clearly stated last year in our proposed package, the Islamic Republic of Iran believes that drawing lessons from the past mistakes and not insisting on futile and pointless paths that have proven to be of no avail is the prerequisite for the success in the upcoming negotiations.

Accordingly, the commitment of all parties involved to, firstly, [the] composition of new structure of international interactions that is free from past errors, and secondly [the] expression of good intent by all parties, both in words and deeds, in demonstrating commitment to justice and law can lead to a new phase in negotiations for a long-term cooperation with a view to consolidating lasting peace and security in the region and the world.

Political, security, economic and international issues are the primary subjects that have raised shared concerns in the region and the world for governments and notions. The Islamic Republic of Iran firmly believes that proceeding from principles and fundamentals stated above, and in light of the present state of affairs in our world, we all need to show compassion and concern for the destiny of humanity and to turn these shared concerns into collective commitments for the purpose of paving the way for effective regional and international cooperation.

The Islamic Republic of Iran voices its readiness to embark on comprehensive, all-encompassing and constructive negotiations, aiming at acquiring a clear framework for cooperative relationships by ensuring the adherence of all parties to collective commitments, a future free from injustice that promises welfare and progress free from double standards for all nations of the region and the world.

Proceeding from regional and international priorities, the axis of the negotiations for peace and prosperity can be included in three main areas: political-security issues, international issues and economic issues.

1. Political-Security Issues

1.1 Protecting human dignity, respect for their culture and their rights.

1.2 Consolidating stability and fostering just peace, promotion of democracy and enhancement of prosperity of nations in regions that suffer from instability, militarism, violence and terrorism on the basis of:

First: Respect for the rights of nations and national interests of sovereign states.

Second: Consolidating the national sovereignty of countries in the framework of democratic practices.

Third: Refraining from violence and militarism.

Fourth: Tackling the root causes of terrorism.

Some parts of the world, especially in the Middle East, the Balkans, parts of Africa, South America and East Asia need to be accorded priority. Joint efforts and interactions to help the people of Palestine to draw a comprehensive, democratic and equitable plan in order to help the people of Palestine to achieve all-embracing peace, lasting security and to secure their fundamental rights could be good examples of those cooperative relations.

1.3 Combating common security threats by dealing effectively and firmly with the main causes of security threats including terrorism, illicit drugs, illegal migrations, organized crimes and piracy.

2. International Issues

2.1 Reform of the United Nations and the Security Council and raising their effectiveness on the basis of principles of democracy and justice.

2.2 Elevating the weight and position of environmental issues in the international relations and fostering collective participation in the management of environmental issues.

2.3 Equitable definition and codification of the rights to space and sharing of all possessors of space technologies in the management and fair use of space.

2.4 Definition and codification of the rights relating to new and advanced technologies.

2.5 Promoting a rule-based and equitable oversight function of the IAEA and creating the required mechanisms for use of clean nuclear energy in agriculture, industry, and medicine and power generation.

2.6 Promoting the universality of NPT mobilizing global resolve and putting into action real and fundamental programmes toward complete disarmament and preventing development and proliferation or nuclear, chemical and microbial weapons.

2.7 Enhancement of ethical and human considerations and their full observance in international mechanisms, ties and practices.

3. Economic Issues

3.1 Energy and its security in production, supply, transport and consumption.

3.2 Trade and investment.

3.3 Capacity-building for promotion of public welfare, global poverty alleviations reducing social gaps and bridging the gap between the South and the North.

3.4 Finding the root causes of global economic and financial crisis and preventing the occurrence of other manifestations of crisis in the world economy and designing new and just mechanisms.

3.5 Combating underground economy, economic corruption, financial frauds and organized crime activities that are detrimental to economic security.

[Sirius]

Let us hope they are above the corruption of power that the nuclear technology creates.

[Prism]

During the 1950's Israel and France collaborated to bring both into the atomic weapons club. A research reactor was built with the assistance of French engineers at Dimona, in the Negev desert of southern Israel near Beersheba. In December 1960, before the reactor was operational, it was revealed by US intelligence. Israel announced that it was for "peaceful purposes" only and denied nuclear weapons intentions.the US and Israel sparred over inspections and, it is believed, Israel evaded US attempts to limit the program. The US was not supplying Israel with arms or any security guarantees so Israel had no incentive to sacrifice its defense capability to meet US demands.

Peaceful purposes, now where have we heard that one before?

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_israel_nuclear.php

[Nu Kua]

Here, this is a step by step proper translation (http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/) of the 'wiped off the map" lie.


Let us hope they are above the corruption of power that the nuclear technology creates.

Nuclear technology creates corruption? How many nuclear power plants are in the U.S., do you know?
Here is a jumping off point (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/page/at_a_glance/reactors/states.html).

Follow the oil- in every place the U.S. is in a conflict or involved in upsetting the established order of things, there is oil and gas pipelines to consider, every single one- including Venezuela, and Pakistan/Afghanistan.

Look I don't want more war either. I do not want mass murder of innocent people, be they Israeli or Iranian or Palestinian or Any Body.
I am not even this great big supporter of Ahmadinejad, not in the way some may think.
I am attempting to counter media distortion by presenting the other side, and facts that are not presented in our media 99.99% of the time.
We hear and read in our media so much of what a threat Iran is supposed to be, how crazed and nutty Ahmadinejad is- yet when you compare that to what he actually says, and to what their official intents are and messages, requests, and such, you get a different picture.

ps I forgot to link you to this (http://forums.armageddononline.org/ahmadinejads-christmas-message-t17723.html?t=17723&highlight=memri). Does this read like a mad man to you?

This fervent anti-Iran talk, and making dubious connections to so called terrorist support and such, is the exact same formula used by the PTB to justify the illegal invasion of Iraq. In fact, even before the invasion of Iraq, many were making predictions, based on the lofty plans set forth in Pnac for one thing, that Iran would be next on the list.

And as far as "proof"- all I can say is... yellow cake uranium. And also remember those satellite photos that proved Iraq was hiding weapons of mass destruction. Weapons we found millions of innocent lives later- were never even there.

[Sirius]

Power creates corruption, and on the panet what is more powerful than nuclear technology?

[Sirius]

Right or wrong, Israel considers this a threat, and a grave one at that.

[Prism]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/26/israel-doubt-iran-pursuing-nuclear-weapons/

Israel calls on the US to take action now.

[olddragon]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/26/israel-doubt-iran-pursuing-nuclear-weapons/

Israel calls on the US to take action now.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/o1ddragon/smilies/lol33.gifhttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/o1ddragon/smilies/lol33.gifhttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/o1ddragon/smilies/lol33.gif

Ok, we will.............

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/o1ddragon/smilies/surrender.gifhttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/o1ddragon/smilies/surrender.gifhttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/o1ddragon/smilies/surrender.gifhttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/o1ddragon/smilies/surrender.gif

[Perfectionist]

Iran back in the limelight !! Could it be because they are gaining influence in Iraq and have very recently dropped the Dollar ...... nah, pure coincidence ...... :doh:


It's a known fact Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism, they control Hezbollah, Hamas.Known Fact LOL !! It's known Propaganda you Redneck !! :vbroll:


The fear is more that the technology can fall into the wrong hands. Too late, the Yanks already have Nukes :vbroll:


Also, Iran is violating the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that they signed. Not exactly ...... Israel on the other hand ...... :noevl:


I believe Israel needs to do what they feel is best for their countryAnd Iran needs to do what they feel is best for their country ...... :toast:


it's a damn shame for the United states because we will be automatically associated with an Israeli attack.Well obviously, afterall y'all paid for it :wink:


PS - Why the funk was Ninja banned ?? :huh?:

[Prism]

Iran back in the limelight !! Could it be because they are gaining influence in Iraq and have very recently dropped the Dollar ...... nah, pure coincidence ...... :doh:

Known Fact LOL !! It's known Propaganda you Redneck !! :vbroll:

Too late, the Yanks already have Nukes :vbroll:

Not exactly ...... Israel on the other hand ...... :noevl:

And Iran needs to do what they feel is best for their country ...... :toast:

Well obviously, afterall y'all paid for it :wink:


PS - Why the funk was Ninja banned ?? :huh?:

You're right.

http://blog.technonllc.com/index.php?/archives/30-Nasrallahs-Deputy-Admits-Iranian-Control-on-Hezbollahs-Operations.html

The deputy of hezbollah says they do it with Iranian permission. Yes, because Iran really needs Nuclear energy when they sit on one of the largest oil reserves in the world, give me a fucking break. Also, thanks for posting that was entertaining.

[Perfectionist]

You're right.

http://blog.technonllc.com/index.php?/archives/30-Nasrallahs-Deputy-Admits-Iranian-Control-on-Hezbollahs-Operations.html

The deputy of hezbollah says they do it with Iranian permission. Yes, because Iran really needs Nuclear energy when they sit on one of the largest oil reserves in the world, give me a fucking break. Also, thanks for posting that was entertaining.Oh my !! A BLOG SITE !! Well that confirms it 100% doesn't it Einstein !! :ROFL:

It's a regular tactic to mistranslate and manipulate everything coming out of the M.E. ...... and Hezbolla are a Resistance Force against Israel ...... oh and if you weren't retarded you'd know that Iran actually has to IMPORT gasoline as they don't produce much "sweet" crude and don't have enough domestic refining capacity ...... besides, considering their Economy, it makes more sense to sell the Oil than use it themselves ...... okie dokie Albert :thumbs:

[ryangti]

Yep all about the oil which we all knew all along.
Its obvious that they now could have the upper hand whereas we need oil and no way shall we let them have it.

We want to stay in power i guess instead of a rogue state as many call them these days.
Its may come down to who controls the oil and who has the power to lead the world.
Yes it sounds stupid but wasnt the iraq war all about oil anyway?

Israel im not too sure why they think they are threatened if it is not about the oil for them but more of the case of religion?
Okay any nuclear threat to any state is a bad but over fucking oil,i do suppose it will keep the economies strong and keep somebody in power.
Oh hang on isnt that America who would fall if Iran proceeds any further?

So there is no way America will sit back and see its empire fall.
Israel will go in with Americas blessing at the same time though America denies any involvement?

Oh well if it happens it happens if not then dont worry just yet??????

The question remains how would it end up as a possible nuke war?
Here is the latest news.

The United States wants Iran to provide international inspectors with full access to a newly disclosed underground uranium enrichment plant that Obama administration officials say is both illegal and probably intended for developing weapons.
Doesnt mean jack just like before in Iraq right?
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/27/us.iran/index.html

Guess what i am surprised wall street hasnt crashed over this incident but no doubt doesnt help the worlds economy neither.

As all above im just taking a wild guess okay!

[Prism]

Actually, it happened in an interview you can look it up and practice your arabic. :dunno:

Oil - Exports: 2.52 million bbl/day (2006 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/ir.html

They could avoid all of this nuclear bullshit and sanctions if they just built a few more refineries.

[Perfectionist]

Actually, it happened in an interview you can look it up and practice your arabic. :dunno:

Oil - Exports: 2.52 million bbl/day (2006 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/ir.html

They could avoid all of this nuclear bullshit and sanctions if they just built a few more refineries.Better yet, America could avoid even more bullshit if they just got the funk out of the Middle East :vbroll:

[mans123]

I think it's a message for western world that it does not care about sanctions...that the US and other countries threatened Iran with. Especially after the revelation of a new nuclear site by President Obama in World economic forum.

[ryangti]

Iran declared its refusal Tuesday to discuss its nuclear program -- including the disclosure of a second nuclear enrichment plant -- when it sits down at the negotiating table Thursday with the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and Germany, Reuters reported. A top Iranian official told the news agency that his country will not abandon its nuclear activities, "even for a second."

Well what did we expect?
What choices are left on the table to avoid a conflict if sanctions dont work?
Israel will put further pressure on America itself no doubt.

[pico]

I agree with perfectionist in that the US should pull out of the middle east. The only problem is that the US has blocked refinieries from being built, and the ones in operation are not as modern as they should be.

If Bush was serious about not being dependant on middle eastern oil, something that should have been realized in the 1970s, then the US should have grown the balls the French did by taxing the crap out of it. If demand drops, whatever the reason, then less consumed oil will only hurt those people. Alternatives should have been developed sooner, and the US should really quit sending the majority of the deisel made here to Europe.

Much of the problems with the middle eastern countries has come about thru the US demand for cheap oil. Make it expensive and the problems may change.

[ryangti]

We wont pull out as if we would have done already right!
Iran back in the news again.
Iran said on Tuesday it would refuse to discuss a newly declared nuclear plant at forthcoming international talks and cautioned Western powers it could curb cooperation further if they repeated "past mistakes."


Im holding on to see what Israel makes of this,can we expect some sort of build up on the seas?
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSLT56449320090929

[ryangti]

In an unusually frank disclosure, Iran's nuclear chief said Tuesday the country's new uranium enrichment site was built for maximum protection from aerial attack: carved into a mountain and near a military compound of the powerful Revolutionary Guard.

What are they expecting an attack for Israel,so thats why iran is so cocky then?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran;_ylt=AijCZlOZ9vKGOGQedTLPAyBvaA8F;_ylu=X3o DMTI4bnIyazB2BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwOTI5L21sX2lyYW4EY 3BvcwMxBHBvcwMyBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2lyYW5 idWlsdG51Yw--

[mtnmanjames]

The ultimate last battle by mechanization is about to begin. Megiddo will be the last stand for the search for good or evil.

[copcop]

I think its just an effort to diffuse off pressure and might be a message to Isreal that "put down your guns, we got tools to counter you!"