President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat

[humanhybrid]

In case you missed it?: Reviewing The Lies: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat: Tonight I want to take a few minutes to discuss a grave threat to peace, and America's determination to lead the world in confronting that threat. The threat comes from Iraq. Remember that we are liberating the Iraqis? http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3711.htm

[Moishe3rd]

In case you never make it. We will win in Iraq or you will be speaking Arabic.

From the Belmont Club (http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/)
Zaraqawi's Oath
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's oath to fight "until Islamic rule is back on earth" -- besides being historically wrong, as it never was -- and his vow to kill the Shi'ite President of the interim Iraqi government, can be more accurately understood as a desire to fight for leadership of the Sunni triangle. The control of Iraq has slipped forever beyond his grasp. Iraqi blogger Hammorabi's breakdown of the the foreign fighters killed in one US strike on Fallujah underscores the point:

Nationality Number
Saudi 5
Somalia 2
Emirates 1
Yemen 1
Morocco 1
Algeria 1
Syria 1
Libya 1
Kurdistan 1
China 1
Mauritania 1

From the looks of it, Zarqawi has brought in the Bekaa Valley gang, the elite of Hezbollah honed in battle against the Israeli Defense Forces to derail the June 30 turnover to Shi'ite Iyad Allawi. But although he has quality, for his fighters are far better than Moqtada Al-Sadr's rabble, he has forgotten that the April upsurge of violence, which some had breathlessly hoped would signal the downfall of the US in Iraq, was only made possible by Teheran's decision to unleash simultaneous unrest in the south, in the hopes that a desperate America would pay any price for relief. But after the US calmly beat back both attacks, grinding Sadr down to a powder, it was no longer faced with a two-front war. There is now no way that the Shi'ites will allow the Sunni-backed Zarqawi to call the shots. The Sunni Saddam had lorded it over them once before; and neither the Kurds nor the Shi'ites will so easily let that happen again. A more attainable goal will be to prevent the emergence of any independent Sunni figure in the new government. Zaraqawi's methods are nothing if brutal. His elite forces have killed 66 Iraqis and 3 Americans in the Sunni triangle in the last 24 hours, a reminder that any Sunni who breaks with him should prepare to die.

One can only sympathize with those who want an independent Iraq. With the Syrians attempting to pull the strings of the Sunni politicians and the Iranians intending to manipulate Shi'ite figures like marionettes and the Kurds wanting out of the nation altogether, the new Iraqi government is in danger of being answerable more to foreign capitals more than to voters of the Land Between the Rivers -- whenever they get to vote. The United Nations which so gravely expects America to withdraw from the scene has no similar expectations of Saudi Arabia, Syria or Iran. Indeed, Kofi Annan dispatched Sunni Lakhdar Brahimi to serve as his own plenipoteniary to ensure that the UN's own bureaucratic interests are protected.

This leaves the US in a curious position of strength. Although both the Sunnis, the Shi'ites and the other interests like France, possibly fronted by the UN may form occasional tactical coalitions against America, their interests fundamentally conflict. Like bank robbers squabbling over the loot, they may decide to jointly resist the police but will knife each other at the earliest opportunity once the coast is clear. Only America can play the lone hand. Some observers believe that both Washington and Teheran are clearing the decks for final showdown over Iraq once the two weaker players are ousted from the game. Clearly the Shi'ite-Iranian theater is the decisive area of operations. The Sunni Triangle, however disgustingly Zarqawi's elite fighters behave, is the secondary front.

As an aside, one might remark on the extremity of the Jihadi effort in Iraq. They are sending their best team, the team that harried the IDF out of Lebanon to no good effect. US forces have quietly become very efficient, with chemical test kits to screen suspects for explosive residue, aircraft which electronically detonate IEDs, a steady drumbeat of raids on explosives factories and other operational advances. The enemy is still able to kill Americans, but not in any decisive numbers. But how will America use its capability to achieve a strategic result?

The answer to that question will not be revealed until after the November Presidential election if George Bush is re-elected: whether America will go West to Syria and Lebanon or move its sights squarely on Teheran. The Al Qaeda operational bases in Afghanistan have moved, it said, to the Bekaa in Lebanon. So there is reason to clean that out. But Teheran threatens to become a nuclear power in the very near future and is, despite Sunni pretensions to the contrary, still the central star in the Jihadi firmament. For the present, it is actually in the Coalition's interest and probably no one else's to build up a truly independent Iraq. Iraq would become another player to the game to balance off Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran. A strong Iraq, especially an independent Shi'ite Iraq would be a deadly threat to the Mullahs. A region so evenly divided could be tipped in any way by America and would complicate coalition building against it.

The week leading up to the formal transfer of power to the Iraqi interim government will be punctuated by heavy yet pointless violence. The event is as unstoppable as the Overlord invasion, Zarqawi or no. The enemy had better prepare his fallback position and prepare for the next phase of the campaign.

[humanhybrid]

In case you never make it. We will win in Iraq or you will be speaking Arabic.

Your about as extreme as the Islamics. But at least the Iraqis have a reason to be extreme. " THERE ARE TRANSGRESSORS INVADING THEIR COUNTRY " good day!

[Defiant Noquisi]

Remember that we are liberating the Iraqis? You know HH, your position and passion is admirable, however, did it ever occur to you that although we "liberated" the Iraqi's from Saddam that there is more work to do? Cant you understand that although there is no clear "winner" to lead the country, we cant just cave in and let them all kill each other until the last one is standing? What would that last one be a leader of besides the graveyard?

The war is an ugly mess, of that there is no doubt. ANY war is! But to just waltz in, bomb up the country and walk out is irresponsible and outright reprehensible! Regardless of my dislike of Bush, he has a job to finish and I hope he is successful for Iraq's sake and not just our "interests" there. Unfortunately I believe his job also will be connected in some way to November but that does nothing to sway the fact that there is an enormous amount of work to be done, it will involve more death and may or may not include the "removal" of such persons that are now becoming terrorists in their own country. Hell, it even happened here among Indigenous people.

The lies are inexusable and will continue to be told to gain whatever is needed to secure the desired outcome. That is unless people start educating themselves that there might be better ways of dealing with "problems" such as holding people in leadership roles accountable for more than just blowjobs under desks and who's hair that was on the pop can.

If you are that passionate in that we just up and leave Iraq, may I also suggest the same ridiculous thing for you to leave MY country and take all the occupiers with you. What a resoundingly successful and brilliant way to clear up mankinds ills. :ohmy:

[Conservative Front]

Do you want use to lose humanhybrid? I don't think you have ever said a good thing about this war and all you do is critize our efforts.

[substand]

Ok HH, so lets go thru this bit by bit.

you point out the parts that are lies, and we'll either agree with them or point out how you're wrong.

this has been rehashed so many times on this board, but since you are showing something specific, quote the same specificity. And don't be afraid to do the same in the Powell thread.

And please don't say that everything that was said is a lie. Obviously, "Thank you all. Thank you for that very gracious and warm Cincinnati welcome." is not a lie. If you are goign to rehash old topics that have to do with why we are at war and is it justified, then you can at least have the courtesy of pointing out the lying, relevant parts. We could go through it all and easily point out the true parts, but those don't matter to this thread.

[humanhybrid]

Greetings! My freinds. I hope all is well with each and everyone of you. I would like to remind you all the topic of this thread since it has become an issue, with all due respect. "Reviewing The Lies:" Should we leave Iraq now? YES! As irrational as it sounds, it will serve us in the long run. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1246876,00.html Has and will our safety be assured by occupation? The Iraqis do not want us there! doesnt anybody understand. The extremists were there when Saddam was in power and Saddam done what the US is doing now! The only diffrence is that our administration is useing the tax payers money to make themselves a hefty profit. They have strategically bombed key areas to rebuild. And I would like to always remind people of the lies that led the masses to think that we are helping these people. WELCOME TO THE AMERICAN GAZA where the military war machines suck and plunder the nations of this planet.

[Defiant Noquisi]

WELCOME TO THE AMERICAN GAZA where the military war machines suck and plunder the nations of this planet. Actually, its extremist views, ignorant thinking, apathy and arrogance that do that. Care to formulate a response to the questions Ive posed to you or is hit and run becoming your style?

[humanhybrid]

Actually, its extremist views, ignorant thinking, apathy and arrogance that do that. Care to formulate a response to the questions Ive posed to you or is hit and run becoming your style? Im sorry Defiant Noquisi if I may have seemed like Im hitting and running. I am always on the run literally, and I have four children that is always needing some attension. Please forgive me if I may have seemed rude. Please feel free to pose the questions. I dont know if its the right answer but I will try to humbly. good day! :jap:

[humanhybrid]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4251691,00.html
Others are more controversial. On Saturday, Bremer signed an edict that gives U.S. and other Western civilian contractors immunity from Iraqi law while performing their jobs in Iraq. The idea outrages many Iraqis, including Othman, who said the law allows foreigners to act with impunity even after the occupation. :devsmoke:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Im sorry Defiant Noquisi if I may have seemed like Im hitting and running. I am always on the run literally, and I have four children that is always needing some attension. Please forgive me if I may have seemed rude. Please feel free to pose the questions. I dont know if its the right answer but I will try to humbly. good day! :jap: I dont know how you could do that, I have one and he is enough to handle as it is! I have all the respect for that.

I have been questioning as to where you get your opinion that the war is completely wrong. I ask this keeping in mind that killing is wrong in general. However, I did start another thread about a speech that was given that lines up all the killing that has occured and directed towards the US and Americans. It is proof in my mind that we had waited long enough to take action against those who have killed our own. I dont agree that war is ever "right" or "justifiable" but I also believe that we shouldnt allow others to just up and kill us because of their own beliefs.

I also pose to you that we should be more pro-active in electing leaders who will appoint people that would be more responsible in foriegn matters. If citizens in general put more thought and care in even going to the polls that would be a start. You cant blame all of this on just certain individuals. I cant stand Bush but he is not the entire blame for what led up to this war. It will be those things that will improve the situations here and elsewhere.

I guess my point would be that enough is enough. Hopefully some good will come of this hand over of power, but going in, bombing the place up and just up and leaving without doing something to help put it back together is wrong.

[humanhybrid]

I guess my point would be that enough is enough. Hopefully some good will come of this hand over of power, but going in, bombing the place up and just up and leaving without doing something to help put it back together is wrong. Your point well taken. I dont have that point of veiw. There was lies and a lack of responsability in reveiwing the intelligence that led us to war. And to this very day, nobody is held accountable. Any good that comes from the occupation will be measured in profits of which you or I will not benefit. Its all sickening. :devsmoke: good day! Defiant Noquisi

[Conservative Front]

humanhybrid, i'm just curious but our you affiliated or agree with the Green Party because most of what you post seems to match there agenda.

Infact there the biggest anti-bush party and the biggest party that claimed he lied.

[humanhybrid]

Do you manufacture rubber stamps CF? :jap:

[Anarch]

The threat comes from Iraq. It arises directly from the Iraqi regime's own actions -- its history of aggression, and its drive toward an arsenal of terror. Eleven years ago, as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War, the Iraqi regime was required to destroy its weapons of mass destruction, to cease all development of such weapons, and to stop all support for terrorist groups. The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.

We also must never forget the most vivid events of recent history. On September the 11th, 2001, America felt its vulnerability -- even to threats that gather on the other side of the earth. We resolved then, and we are resolved today, to confront every threat, from any source, that could bring sudden terror and suffering to America.

We are still in Iraq. What threat do they pose..now or then?

Where are the chemical and biological weapons? Where are the nukes?

Why do we allow men that have never served on the front lines to control our military from the comfort of the sideline..

OBAMA YOU SAID YOU'D BRING THE TROOPS HOME YOU FUCKING LIAR PIECE OF SHIT!

[pico]

Anarch, you resurrected a thread that was started before Obama was ever elected to Congress.... this whole thread is based on Bush. Start a new thread to voice your anger. I am in no way a fan of Obama, and while US presence in Iraq is still an issue, it has declined dramatically.

[Anarch]

Anarch, you resurrected a thread that was started before Obama was ever elected to Congress.... this whole thread is based on Bush. Start a new thread to voice your anger. I am in no way a fan of Obama, and while US presence in Iraq is still an issue, it has declined dramatically.

Yes I did bump an old thread. One that begun before Obama was in any office. But that is irrelevant. I can be angry at failbamma all I want because the sack of crap campaigned on bringing the troops home and shutting down gitmo and other US concentration camps. The lying bastard has done neither.

Instead he continues the wars that the Bush cablal started.

Whats more, based on todays understanding of the events back then George Bush and much of his administration , by every merit of domestic law and international treaty, deserve to be brought up on war crimes against humanity. Does the current POTUS see it that way? Fuck no. The cowardly sack of lying shit continues to send our soldiers to kill iraqs and die for oil while he comfortably makes commercials for the George Lopez show or does a cameo for mythbusters. The incompetent shit spends more time acting then Ronald Regan did.

Bush outlined a threat that did not exist. Obama perpetuates the lie Bush started. Fuck them both to the deepest pits of hell.

[pico]

Wow... while I agree Obama has had a total failure regarding his policy, many of his supporters would disagree, in that he has really transformed the USA. While the Bush lie began the war, which is criminal, Obama has begun to pull out of Iraq. You cannot fuck a country up and then simply leave... kind of cruel, especially considering all of the wrongdoings done. Getting the nation of Iraq stable again will prevent Iran from simply rolling them over and taking over much of the nation. It looks like things may be heading downhill again, which may lead to further troop increases in the region.... God I hope not.

[Anarch]

.... I don't think we can fix what we destroyed with soldiers. Thats like asking a home burglar to fix the window he broke to get in. The only outcome will be more broken windows.

They don't want us in their country.

Bottom line.

In this small regard they are united.

They don't want us there because we randomly shoot into traffic and rape and murder their children... Holy shit man...the sick shit we have all witnessed on youtube is vile...and it is us, our soldiers doing it to them. What I have not seen on the internet I have heard about from those that returned first hand.

We can't fix that. We can't protect them...The most good we could do would be a unilateral pull out not unlike Vietnam. And if that is not an option then our fearless leader needs to get out in the green zone and pop his cherry on the front lines.

....I can't tell you how it disturbs the fuck outta me that men that have never been to war are in charge of our military. ...

All in the name of Oil... a resource on it's way out in the wake of new industrial revolutions.....tabernac!

[Zer0th]

All in the name of Oil...
Really, not. Neocon central (www.newamericancentury.org), The Project For A New American Century, published a document, Rebuilding America's Defenses, (www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf) one year before 9/11 that makes explicit their strategic interest in Iraq. The US presence in Saudi Arabia was coming to an end and they'd no effective base to oppose (or attack, if you will) Iran, the real enemy.

There's a nice little line in that document for the conspiracy theorists. With regard to the chances of taking out Saddam and establishing a force presence in Iraq...

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.

Given that it's considered possible (likely, imo) that, based on signals intelligence, Churchill forewarned FDR that the Japanese were planning an attack on Pearl Harbor... that he [FDR] allowed it to go ahead in order to get America into WWII.

[Anarch]

Really, not. Neocon central (www.newamericancentury.org), The Project For A New American Century, published a document, Rebuilding America's Defenses, (www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf) one year before 9/11 that makes explicit their strategic interest in Iraq. The US presence in Saudi Arabia was coming to an end and they'd no effective base to oppose (or attack, if you will) Iran, the real enemy.

.


Ahh yes.PANC.

If you ask me I think it was all part of the plan that got delayed.

Iraq, Afganistan, Our presence in the middle east secured and their oil secured for US oil interest , I think that was all supposed to go down in the 90s....

Only the first "pearl harbor" attempt did not go right in 93 and those with the plan would have to wait 8 years to try again... only in 8 years the world changed while the plan remained the same. By 2001 the plan was obsolete but stupid and stubborn , political families went ahead with the plan anyways.

And now 8 years after that, here we are stuck in Iraq guarding oil we don't need establishing bases to counter perceived threats that won't be countered by men on the ground but more likely people in cyber space or UAVs.


Next up in the plan I think is the civil war they mean to instigate then crush so that a more restrictive/controlling government can be instituted in the US along with the debasement of our $ and inflation of BAC.... One world currency controlled by the one world bank and enforced through the one world government.

Meh....maybe I'm paranoid. But the voices tell me I'm not.