Did Humans Originate In Africa Or.... Antarctica?

[GamerGal]

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/3778_Antarctica.html


A. Between 5th and 10th milleniums B. C., there was a civilization on Earth which possessed great knowledge in the field of navigation, cartography, and astronomy, which was not lower than that one from 18th century.

B. This civilization preceded our civilization and it was not an extraterrestrial one. Its age could be several thousands years, while its situation was probably in the northern shore of the most southern continent, or archipelago – Antarctica, where there was a temperate climate. Later, this civilization may have resettled to the north-east of Africa.

The reason of the civilization death is the glaciation of Antarctica – the process which started not earlier than in 10th millenium B. C. It cannot be excluded that there were also large-scale floods, which were too regular and cause long-term local deluges (this is confirmed by archaeologists).



Interesting theory. Where would they have come from? Is a "Garden of Eden" under the ice of Antarctica? It could explain how the same kind of stories and buildings showed up in SA and Africa.

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf138/sf138p07.htm

The analyses of ocean-floor sediments deposited recently by melting Antarctic ice sheets reveal that these ice sheets are only about 2,000 years old.


The warmer Antarctic just portrayed might explain those old maps, such as that of Piri Re'is, that seem to depict a relatively ice-free Antartica.

[Blu-ray]

Pravda???

Seriously PRAVDA?

It's like the Weekly World News of Russia! Zeesh.

[GamerGal]

It still has viable information. Like the maps mentions, the Reis one I knew/heard of before. Do you not think it interesting that several maps of an Ice Free Antarctica exist? Especially when we didn't know what it looked like until we had the tech for seeing through all the ice?

[Rabid1]

Take into account that no ancient map story has ever held up except for wishfull thinking and a wide berth for errors in regards to Antarctica.


The idea is an intriguing one although. Although the biggest problem with the Antartica theory is that if there was a advanced civilization there even as advanced as say the Mayans or Aztecs, they would have been by nature sea fairing. Glaciation takes time and there would be plenty of time for some form of migration to save themselves. And there would be some record somewhere of this.

There are tidbits here and there, like figurines of men with beards in South America, aborignal paintings of white men in Australia. But Antarctica was also mostly covered by ice about 13 million years before modern man so it is a great idea but virtuall impossible.

[Cartesiantheater]

Yeah, I'm gonna go with a no. It is possible humans VISITED Antartica in ancient times, but we originated in a much more hospitable climate.

[GamerGal]

Rabid.... That's wrong. Science shortened it to 6million "Officially".

Also, several maps show no ice in 16th century. Then in early 19th? Ice growing but not completely covered. And as I linked from Science Frontiers tests show that the ice on some parts of Antarctica only appeared as little as 2,000 years ago.

And also as said, flash flooding would have devestated them and if this was before the Egyptians became established, how many stories do you think would have survived?


The official science has been saying all along that the ice-cap which covers the Antarctic is million years old.
The Piri Reis map shows that the northern part of that continent has been mapped before the ice did cover it. That should make think it has been mapped million years ago, but that's impossible since mankind did not exist at that time.

Further and more accurate studies have proven that the last period of ice-free condition in the Antarctic ended about 6000 years ago. There are still doubts about the beginning of this ice-free period, which has been put by different researchers everything between year 13000 and 9000 BC.
The question is: Who mapped the Queen Maud Land of Antarctic 6000 years ago? Which unknown civilization had the technology or the need to do that?
http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_1.htm


In 1953, a Turkish naval officer sent the Piri Reis map to the U.S. Navy Hydrographic Bureau. To evaluate it, M.I. Walters, the Chief Engineer of the Bureau, called for help Arlington H. Mallery, an authority on ancient maps, who had previously worked with him.
After a long study, Mallery discovered the projection method used. To check out the accuracy of the map, he made a grid and transferred the Piri Reis map onto a globe: the map was totally accurate. He stated that the only way to draw map of such accuracy was the aerial surveying: but who, 6000 years ago, could have used airplanes to map the earth??

The Hydrographic Office couldn't believe what they saw: they were even able to correct some errors in the present days maps!!
The precision on determining the longitudinal coordinates, on the other hand, shows that to draw the map it was necessary to use the spheroid trigonometry, a process supposedly not know until the middle of 18th century

A map hundreds of years old, made by some one who claimed they were using even older maps, that were better then modern ones so much that we fixed errors on ours?

And Cart, if Antarctica was Ice Free.... that would mean it was hospitable! And remember, we are warm blooded, we can handle cold. And actually... One of our natural predators were gators and snakes and insects. If Antartica didn't have Ice but was cold enough that those animals couldn't survive, wouldn't that be an ideal place? No insects ravaging and spreadin disease or gators eating you when you took a bath.

[Ningishiddza]

Also, several maps show no ice in 16th century.

Those are the Oronteus Finaeus Maps. His maps were made from previously existing maps.

His map of Antarctica is an azithumal map. The point of origin is the geo-physical South Pole, and the height is estimated to be 80-85 miles above the Earth's surface.

That is why, other than the Piri Re'is and Oronteous Finaeus maps, there are no azithumal maps in existence prior to the mid-1960s.

You must be orbiting the Earth to make an azithumal map, because there is no other way to make one. And one could not orbit the Earth, until the Soviet and US space programs took shape.


And Cart, if Antarctica was Ice Free.... that would mean it was hospitable!

That is not necessarily true. There are many ice-free uninhabitable places on Earth. The Arctic Tundra is one of them.

The official science has been saying all along that the ice-cap which covers the Antarctic is million years old.

That is bad science.

There are two ice sheets on Antarctica, generally they are referred to as the Eastern Ice Sheet and the Western Ice Sheet.

The East Antarctic ice sheet was originally formed in the Eocene/Oligocene time, about 45 Million years ago (see Sedimentological evidence for the formation of East Antarctic ice sheet in Eocene/Oligocene time, Ehrman, W. U. and Mackensen, A.)

However, the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet is not more than 10,000 years old.

The evidence is that Antarctica has always been covered in ice, except for a brief period 14,000 to 10,000 years ago, when part of the continent was ice free.

In 1953, a Turkish naval officer sent the Piri Reis map to the U.S. Navy Hydrographic Bureau.

I'm not familiar with that story, however, Charles Hapgood did send a copy of the Piri Re'is Map to the US Naval Observatory at Annapolis, Maryland.

Their conclusion was that the Piri Re'is Map was an azithumal projection with an origin at Cairo, Egypt taken from a height of some 100-odd miles above the Earth's surface.

Later, on a radio show, one of the civilian cartographers who studied the map (and who was also a Jesuit priest) stated that the actual origin point was the Gizeh Plateua, but they withheld that because they thought it was too controversial and people would be focusing on the Great Pyramid and not the map itself (the study was done in the early 1970s when Mood Rings and Pyramid Mania were sweeping the US).


Take into account that no ancient map story has ever held up except for wishfull thinking and a wide berth for errors in regards to Antarctica.

That isn't true as both the Piri Re'is Map and the Oronteus Finaeus Map have met the tests and passed with flying colors.

Between 5th and 10th milleniums B. C., there was a civilization on Earth which possessed great knowledge in the field of navigation, cartography, and astronomy, which was not lower than that one from 18th century.

Yes, that civilization has been identified as the Shumerian civilization.

You can read the Journal of Ancient Near Eastern Texts where they published hundreds of Shumerian star lists that show distances between the stars and planets using three different methods of measurement. The first two measures are not well understood and seem to be related to the passsage of time, however the third methods equates to a unit of measure of about 11,340 meters.

A Shumerian star list will list a star at the top of the clay tablet, and then list all the planets, including Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, and then a whole series of stars, and then the three units of meausre between the main star and the planets and stars in the list.

A study by Scientific American showed that some of the distances were incorrect, however Scientific American concluded that the stars had since moved in the several thousand years since the distances were first measured. Those star lists have allowed astronomers to reconstruct what the heavens looked like 7,000 years ago.

The reason of the civilization death is the glaciation of Antarctica – the process which started not earlier than in 10th millenium B. C. It cannot be excluded that there were also large-scale floods, which were too regular and cause long-term local deluges (this is confirmed by archaeologists).

The problem with that is the sea level was 600 feet lower than it is today.

14,000 years ago, there was no Persian Gulf. It was the Persian Valley, and a river flowed through the valley to a delta about 90-120 miles south of the mouth of the Persian Gulf, about where the boundary of the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean is now.

The sea level could only rise 600 feet, if a large quantity of ice on Antarctica melted (and also the ice sheets covering the northern hemisphere in North America and Europe).

The best evidence is that 12,000 years ago, a civilization had the technology to orbit Earth and make azithumal maps. That civilization did not live in Antarctica, and it may or may not have originated on Earth.

[TC]

Then these guys must know about 2012 huh.

[GamerGal]

What does 2012 have to do with any thing? Shit, they just ran out of rock. Some claim that it isn't Antarctica on the Piri map but southern part of SA but he ran out of room. This of course doesn't explain how it is so accurate and that Piri makes notes about it on the map. That is what stands out most for me. His notes he has on the map making references too older maps, some even suggesting maps from Alexandria's Library.

[Anarch]

Pravada.

Nuff said.

[Ningishiddza]

This of course doesn't explain how it is so accurate and that Piri makes notes about it on the map.

The marginalia has a comment by Re'is to the effect that he gave Columbus a copy of the map, or Columbus has (received) a copy of the map, depending on how you translate it.

The region on Ptolemy's map called Tierra Mitica (the mythical land) has now been identified as southern China and the region in between down to Antarctica, and it too is a copy based on an unknown azithumal map source.

If you want to see an example of a Pacific Ocean-centered azithumal map, the TV series LOST has one. The two episodes from the 5th season where they are in the Lamp Post shows an equatorial Pacific azithumal map. You can see how the shapes of the continents are all distorted. That's a unique characteristic of azithumal maps caused by viewing a sphere from a high altitude.

Someone's been orbiting the Earth long before the Soviets and US had a space program.

[TC]

As with any theory ( no matter how absurd) at least put up some valid links to substantiate said theory. In this case some scientific work that could possibly verify the idea that someone or something did indeed orbit the earth long before this last century.

Its a bit of a stretch to just take your word for this subject Ning..

[phedrereine]

And Cart, if Antarctica was Ice Free.... that would mean it was hospitable! And remember, we are warm blooded, we can handle cold. And actually... One of our natural predators were gators and snakes and insects. If Antartica didn't have Ice but was cold enough that those animals couldn't survive, wouldn't that be an ideal place? No insects ravaging and spreadin disease or gators eating you when you took a bath.

And probably no reliable hunting options, either.

Also, these hypothetical people would have needed land that could yield agricultural bounty in order to support a sustainable civilization. Antarctica may have been much warmer than it is now, but humans at this time would need the type of climate provided in the Fertile Crescent or the Nile River Valley, say, to thrive.

One might think these people sailed to Antarctica from a Mesopotamian civilization, but it seems unlikely as there is no evidence Sumer's navigational technology had developed beyond small river boats. And how would they adjust to the climate? If it were another civilization that came from another part of the world, why have we found no evidence of them?

[Ningishiddza]

One might think these people sailed to Antarctica from a Mesopotamian civilization, but it seems unlikely as there is no evidence Sumer's navigational technology had developed beyond small river boats.

Is that the Mediterranean Sea River and Indian Ocean River?

Shumerian ships went to Magan (Egypt) and traded there, and also to Mozambique/Zimbabwe bringing back shipments of gold. In fact, all of Shumer's gold came from southern Africa by ship.

[UVsaturated]

Humans have evolved from a single celled organism, yet man has come from God. One is a beast the other has the spirit of life within that is another form of evolution available to humans. It's just like Pinnochio. First he was made of wood but wished he were flesh and blood, like his maker. He learned the hard way even though his conscious told him otherwise and then he was swallowed up by a giant whale, like Jonah (pay attention). In the end, he then becomes like the one who crafted him.

[TC]

To quote Der Spiegel’s review sums up their findings. “The Däniken Swindle.”
There is nothing remarkable in the Piri Reis map regarding ancient UFO pictures. Those who have promoted this notion have consistently shown themselves unreliable. Or what is the modern vernacular? “honesty challenged."

Even Hapgood ( who has denounced his own theories " As for the advanced astronomy and trigonometry: this myth comes from von Däniken’s believe that the curving of South America at the bottom of the map indicates that this was a copy of an ancient satellite photo taken over Cairo, from which vantage point South America would look distorted and curved. The Andes drawn on the map showed they were mapped from sea-level. To top it off, von Däniken did, on one occasion, renounce his point of view but then retracted his retraction again".

Again Ning, provide us with some links that scientifically verify the origin of the map .

[TC]

As for the original question.

Late or Upper Paleolithic: ca. 30,000- is still accepted as our development period. The cave art in France and Asia dates to within 28 thousand years. This is the first clear advancement in expression made by modern man. Our earliest permanent dwelling places are established at 8 to 10 thousand years BC ( Damascus / Jericho. As for vanished culture, the Santorini eruption gave rise to lost civilisations and sinking land mass. As for ice, "The oldest ice core retrieved from Antarctica — and the world — travels back about 850,000 years in time, revealing eight previous ice ages. It took the European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctica (EPICA) more than five field seasons to drill down 3,270 meters into the East Antarctic ice sheet. And if it was ever ice free,( roughly 29 million cubic kilometres of ice) ocean levels would be somewhere around 60 meters ( about 190ft) higher than today, drastically changing coast lines ( not to mention maps)

[Goldmoon]

Mesopotamia, near the Tigris and Euphrates river valleys.

[Prometheus]

Humans have evolved from a single celled organism, yet man has come from God. One is a beast the other has the spirit of life within that is another form of evolution available to humans. It's just like Pinnochio. First he was made of wood but wished he were flesh and blood, like his maker. He learned the hard way even though his conscious told him otherwise and then he was swallowed up by a giant whale, like Jonah (pay attention). In the end, he then becomes like the one who crafted him.


http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/Y/h/1/toilet_paper_terror.jpg

[lazserus]

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/3778_Antarctica.html

Interesting theory. Where would they have come from? Is a "Garden of Eden" under the ice of Antarctica? It could explain how the same kind of stories and buildings showed up in SA and Africa.

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf138/sf138p07.htm
I hate to come off narrow-minded, but the first link is from a Russian domain. Russia is notorious for lying about history, events, and even scientific discoveries in order to make itself seem...less overbearing. Lenin began a campaign of fictional propaganda leading to his death, a practice Stalin later mastered. Stalin's propaganda tactics post-WWII were comprehensive, concise, and brilliant to say the least. They made the Nazi propaganda of the era look like idiotic cartoons. The perfect example is the Ukrainian Famine, a pestilence Stalin wrought during his Three-Year Plan, yet no one outside Eastern Europe was aware of it.

As far as advanced human civilizations in Antarctica are concerned, this is merely hocus pocus nonsense. Antarctica was not temperate any time near the ending of the last ice age. Antarctica hasn't been temperate in more than 65 million years.


A. Between 5th and 10th milleniums B. C., there was a civilization on Earth which possessed great knowledge in the field of navigation, cartography, and astronomy, which was not lower than that one from 18th century. According to who, the Russians? The uneducated theorists who still believe Atlantis is sunken in the Atlantic? The first flag should have been in the first half of the sentence: "Between 5th and 10th milleniums B.C...." For starters, the ice age hadn't ended by the end of 10,000 BC in all parts of the world, especially Antarctica; which, mind you, is still a frozen wasteland even in a time where people believe the planet has warmed significantly over the past 30 years do to industrialism. To galvanize my point, Baffin Island, just off the east coast of Canada, was still covered in glacial ice from the last ice age 1500 years ago. So you don't have to do the math, that means in A.D. 510 the island was still for all intents and purposes an iceberg. During that same era (6th-7th century) there were major migrations in Europe by Germanic peoples. The Scandinavian peninsula was still practically considered uninhabitable at that time.

Five thousand years is a BIG probability gap. For example, writing developed (in Mesopotamia) sometime at the close of the 3rd millennium, and within less than a half century cuneiform was standardized, shifting from a bookkeeping system to a full-fledged literary language. In A.D. 1066 the Scandinavians had no literary language. By 1266, just two centuries later, the epic sagas were recorded using a new literary type based on Latin and Arabic Characters. In 6000 BC there was no civilization; by 4000 BC the first elements of civilization became solidified. Again, five thousand years is quite the gap, and more so it is a span of time post-Agriculture Revolution that too much can change. It doesn't add up. It will never add up.


Late or Upper Paleolithic: ca. 30,000- is still accepted as our development period. The cave art in France and Asia dates to within 28 thousand years. This is the first clear advancement in expression made by modern man.
This information is more important than most realize. This is the period in which cognition is believed to have developed. The Homo sapien has been around nearly 200,000 years, but the anatomically "modern" Homo sapien sapien is much younger, turning up around 20-30 thousand years ago. The question of cognition is hotly debated here. Some sides will argue the Neanderthal was cognate, and other sides believe anatomically modern humans were responsible for cognition. Don't confuse cognition with being self-aware, because the two are not directly linked, and each means something different. Dogs are aware but not believed to be cognate. Cognition is the process of critical thought, the transmission of organizational ideas in such a way they can be executed.


Our earliest permanent dwelling places are established at 8 to 10 thousand years BC ( Damascus / Jericho.
Damascus came much later, but Jerich is definitely one of the oldest permanent settlements of antiquity. However, it's important to note that Jericho did not reach civilization before it fell.


As for vanished culture, the Santorini eruption gave rise to lost civilisations and sinking land mass.
You and I know the story, but I should clarify a few things. Santorini (Thera) erupted sometime around 1700 BC and was likely the cause behind the fall of the Minoan civilization. Within less than a century after the eruption the Mycenaeans took control of Minoan Crete. It's believed Thera experienced a caldera implosion resulting in a landslide similar but much greater than Mt. St. Helens (1980). The face of the mountain falling into the sea would have displaced more than a significant amount ot ocean water to create a tsunami on part if not greater than the 2006 tsunami. The waves would have drowned the shores of Crete, flooding inland in such a way to almost swallow the island. Minoan villages and cities were coastal (according to recovered sites), thus would have taken the most force of the tsunami. It is not clear whether or not Thera's eruption in fact destroyed the Minoans, yet it's likely (and most probable) that it delivered such a substantial blow to leave the Minoans open for Mycenean invasion. It's consider by many scholars that Minoan Crete is the site of Plato's Atlantis. All the evidence points to this, and I cannot think of even a shred of information provided by Plato that doesn't fit Minoan Crete. I suppose the only anomaly is Plato's geography, which is questionable enough.


As for ice, "The oldest ice core retrieved from Antarctica — and the world — travels back about 850,000 years in time, revealing eight previous ice ages. It took the European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctica (EPICA) more than five field seasons to drill down 3,270 meters into the East Antarctic ice sheet. And if it was ever ice free,( roughly 29 million cubic kilometres of ice) ocean levels would be somewhere around 60 meters ( about 190ft) higher than today, drastically changing coast lines ( not to mention maps)
I have nothing to add here. You da man!

[bluenose_ian]

Well its good to read some real History again.

I have wondered why this thread remains in History as Historical fact and not been moved to conspiracy as its very questionalable apart from the facts Shortround and Laz have presented?

Selective modding huh?

[TC]

Ahhh here's some real history..LOL

"In the first book of the Bible, Genesis, Adam and Eve were created from scratch in an unlikely (and quite frankly, suspicious) sequence of events. Living a life of luxury in an upmarket resort, they had a dispute with the management about fruit consumption, and reptilian pets, and were asked to leave[citation needed]. One of their children, Cain, once asked, "Am I my brother's son?", which may be the first example of a genuinely stupid question. Stuff happened. God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac on Mount Montezuma, establishing a nasty precedent. Jacob, son of Isaac, stole his brother's birth mark, but still couldn't get laid. Jacob was a patriarch who brought up his twelve sons to also be patriarchs, but for some reason they did not take to it. One of Jacob's sons, Joseph, gave refuse to the Israelites. It was a confusing time.


One of the many pyramids left unfinished by the treacherous desertion of the JewsThe inhabitants of ancient Egypt were called mummies and mammals but never mammaries. They lived in the Sahara Dessert and travelled by Camelot. The climate of the Sahara is so unpleasant that the inhabitants have to live elsewhere, therefore certain areas of the dessert are cultivated by irritation. The Egyptians built the Pyramids in the shape of a huge triangular cube. The Pyramids are also a range of mountains between France and Spain. This is very confusing but fortunately irrelevant.[citation needed]


Pharaoh forced the Hebrew slaves to make bread without straw, the first significant step leading to the discovery of matzos. Moses led them to the Red Sea, where they made unleavened bread, which is bread made without any ingredients (real matzos). Afterwards, Moses went up to Mount Cyanide to get the Ten Commandments. Upon his descent he became confused and got stuck in the dessert for 40 years. Many consider this his crowning achievement[citation needed]. David was a Hebrew king skilled at playing the liar. He fought with the Philatelists, an aggressive and unpleasant race of people who lived in Biblical times. Solomon, one of David's sons, had 500 porcupines as wives.

Greco-Roman History
Without the Greeks, we wouldn't have history, democracy and many other modern conveniences, such as Architecture. The Greeks invented three kinds of colons - Corinthian, Doric and Ironic. They also invented myths[citation needed]. A myth is a female moth. One myth alleges that the mother of Achilles dipped him in the River Stynx until he became intolerable. Achilles starred in "The Illiad", by Homer. Homer also wrote 'The Oddity', in which Penelope was the last hardship that Ulysses endured after a long journey. Actually, Homer was not written by Homer himself, but by another man of that name.

Socrates was a famous Greek teacher and philosopher who went around giving people advice. Not surprisingly, they killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock.

In the Olympic Games, Greeks ran races, jumped, hurled the biscuits and threw the java. They did not wear any clothes, and so we must surmise that the ancient Olympics were not televised in prime time. The reward to the victor was a coral wreath. The government of Athens was democratic because people took the law into their own hands. There were no wars in Greece, as the mountains were so high that they couldn't climb over to see what their neighbours were doing. When they fought with the Persians, the Greeks were outnumbered because the Persians had more men. This statistical oddity has been beautifully illustrated in a number of modern moving pictures.

Eventually, the Ramons conquered the Greeks. (History dubbed these people "Romans" because they never stayed in one place for very long). At Roman banquets, the guests wore garlicks in their hair. Julius Caesar extinguished himself on the battlefields of Gall. The Ides of March murdered him because they thought he was going to be made king. Hero was a cruel tyranny who would torture his poor subjects by playing the fiddle to them. However the Romans were very smart. For example, Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by killing all those who opposed them. This important lesson of history is mostly forgotten today.

[GamerGal]

As far as advanced human civilizations in Antarctica are concerned, this is merely hocus pocus nonsense. Antarctica was not temperate any time near the ending of the last ice age. Antarctica hasn't been temperate in more than 65 million years.


Scientists say 6million as the official, not 65million. Also still doesn't explain maps showing Antarctica with no ice. Until some one can come up with a reasonable explanation for several maps showing no ice/little ice...

Also, I don't really believe humans came from Antarctica. They came from Africa. But it would be interesting if that were wrong, with proof being several maps showing an Ice Free Antarctica. Also showing rivers/mountains in SA/Africa they couldn't have known about. Piri Map even has writing that shows it was based off of earlier maps. So we have a map showing SA/Africa/Antarctica, parts of which they didn't know of yet, based off of earlier maps. How could that be?

Thinking, debating, is more fun then sitting in a circle patting each other on the back.

[TC]

Scientists say 6million as the official, not 65million. Also still doesn't explain maps showing Antarctica with no ice. Until some one can come up with a reasonable explanation for several maps showing no ice/little ice...

Also, I don't really believe humans came from Antarctica. They came from Africa. But it would be interesting if that were wrong, with proof being several maps showing an Ice Free Antarctica. Also showing rivers/mountains in SA/Africa they couldn't have known about. Piri Map even has writing that shows it was based off of earlier maps. So we have a map showing SA/Africa/Antarctica, parts of which they didn't know of yet, based off of earlier maps. How could that be?

Thinking, debating, is more fun then sitting in a circle patting each other on the back.



Well as stated earlier, the antarctic ice is around 3 and a half kilometers thick, with a confirmed date of more than 850,000 years. ( pollen/ trapped atmosphere) This puts a real dent in the idea of an ice free continent anytime during the period of man, or any maps for that reason. This is why main stream science cannot take any theories of this subject seriously.

[GamerGal]

Then how does one explain ice free maps? Especially one that clearly states it is based off of older maps showing land areas they didn't know about/details of land they had just discovered. If they had just found it, how can a map be based off of older maps that show it?

[Rabid1]

Scientists say 6million as the official, not 65million. Also still doesn't explain maps showing Antarctica with no ice. Until some one can come up with a reasonable explanation for several maps showing no ice/little ice...



Because they had never been there. Ice has receded at times but that doesn't make it temperate or habitable.

The concept of a southern continent started around 2000 years agou under the assumption that the earth was balanced and because they knew there was a northern continent there must be a southern. There concept of geological logic followed that the farther south you go the more temperate the climate, so they never imagined a snow coverd climate.

Here is a good example of what the Piri map really shows. It is the Eastern side

http://imageshare.com/Gallery/__PrivateDirectories/12002/3D101CD9F6A71857D9CB1480D4CDF505BD9E501E/__Thumbnails/30935/2.jpg?634081704753311250


What it really shows is explorers went farther much earlier, more likely by accident than intent, much like ancient runestones and longhuts found in the plains.

[TC]

Then how does one explain ice free maps? Especially one that clearly states it is based off of older maps showing land areas they didn't know about/details of land they had just discovered. If they had just found it, how can a map be based off of older maps that show it?

Without coming right out and saying its a fake or some forgery created to look older than it really is. ( which I could hardly prove) All I have is the geological evidence that presents a situation that contradicts the dates with this theory. The technology available today can without a doubt pinpoint both the chemical makeup of past atmospheric content as well as pollen analysis that remains trapped within the ice.

With this evidence we can establish a valid and scientific accepted dating of glacial ice. And with this accepted evidence we have to argue the idea of an ice free environment within the period of mankind's ( modern man) existence in the last 30,000 years.

I have an open mind for even the most extreme theories, in fact I have presented them here on AO, but I have to be prepared to argue said theory with at least a margine of peer reviewed science.

[GamerGal]

Rabid, good picture, but why curve it that way? What, ran out of map? Actually that sounds like a very reasonable explanation. But then how a detailed map could be made off of older maps when this map was made only a few years after the "discovery" of America let alone any indepth exploration?

[Rabid1]

Rabid, good picture, but why curve it that way? What, ran out of map? Actually that sounds like a very reasonable explanation. But then how a detailed map could be made off of older maps when this map was made only a few years after the "discovery" of America let alone any indepth exploration?

The curvature is common on a lot of older maps. It is many times simply from running out of room due to the scale the map started on.

Modern man had been to the America's earlier than is normally understood. That and they coverd more coast than originally believed. Some people limit sea travel to the amount of food and water that could be carried at the time but when travelling a coast and not across an ocean, that is not a real issue.

Also remember with maps like the Piri map age isn't really in question other than if it is as old as it claims, and also it's authenticity.