Criticizing Political Platforms - Reloaded v2.0

[Conservative Front]

Edit by MetalMilitia

Everyone here has a different basis for which their political views come from.

I've recreated this thread in the hopes that everyone can share where and why they push for the politics they push for. I know it started as a CF "all about me" thread, but 5 pages of debate, views, and information is too much to be stuffed in the "Introduce yourself" forum.

-Remember, don't attack the person, attack the political ideas or beliefs.
-Be specific, don't just say "liberals Lie" or "conservatives suck"

So post away, defend your favorite politican, and bash your most hated

Are you a LIEberal or a ConSMERFative?

-MM- :crs:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I never thought it would come to this but Now I must defend myself against the accusions that I'm a Nazi,Racist,Totalitarian,etc.. So here Is my baseline political Platform.

To start with my Platform the Consitition would play 100% Rule in my platform,The Bill of rights would be thrown out, programs such as the ACLU would be diminished and constitunal rights would be fully restored.

To start I will give my defining political values.

DEFINING VALUES: Pro-business, pro-military, pro-life, intolerant towards gays and anti-social welfare with a strong faith in America. Anti-environmental. Self-defined patriot. Distrustful of government. Little concern for the poor. Unsupportive of the women's movement.

and now I will back each claim up with why I give support to this specific ideals.

Pro-Business- A free market place is essential for American prosperity and economic wealth weather you work for a business own a business or are thinking of starting a business You must start here our entire wealth and economics is baselined in a Free Market and pro-business.

Pro-Military- A large and properise Military and Military technologies is need to protect our homelands and ensure safety amongs our people's and nation.

Intolerant Towards gays- I have no problem with Gay(s) not expecting rights from common people, gays have chosen there life style (ask any and they will back that up) They do not deserve special rights based on there sexual orientation

Anti-Social Welfare- I do not believe poor people deserve the money of my labor or anyone(s) labor, If they refuse to work to get some where in life then they deserve to be where they are. I do support a program that would allow people to receive job training if they our laid off, but they would not gain any government funds.

Anti-Eviromental- The earth belongs to us, we do not belong to the earth. If you look at our enviromental standards we produce gold in our skys compared to "third world" countrys Envirmontalist would assume we live in the stone age instead of prosperity.

Self-Defend patriot- Self explanatory

Distrustful of government- I do have the ability (contry to what most of you believe) to question everything our government does.

Little concern for the poor- READ ANTI-SOCIAL WELFARE

Unsupportive of womens movement- Do I believe women have the right to vote Yes I do Do I believe women have the right to particpate in womens sports Yes, however look at the drawbacks this movement has had, men no longer open doors for ladies pull out there chairs ect... They want to be like men I believe Men are suppose to provide for women not vise versa.

These our my defined core values now I will answer concerns that have risen through out my time posting here.

Accusions

#1 I'm a Nazi- No, Infact I'm not racist at all contary to what a few members seem to instill I am in no way racist I have never said I hated Muslims. Racism and Prejudice is based off Hate and Superiotiy of ones kind. I don't believe Whites our the "master" race nor Do I believe Christianity is the "master" of religions.

#2 I'm a Totalitirain. This is just absurd, I don't believe the government should control ever aspect of life, nor Do I believe people(s) should not be able to speak out against the government.

#3 I'm a Christian Extremist. Wrong again, I don't even attend church. I just believe We should live by these morals and ethics and it should be, part of our lifes that influences our nation and people(s). Do I believe in God Yes I do. However I can't claim superiority over my religion just its Ethic and Moral Values.

So to end my abrigded platform. I believe America should be a Land based on our Initial Constitunal Rights, I believe we should be a Morally Inclined country and live my Christian Ethics and Morals as a norm Of living standard.
--I believe People have the right to worship there own god(s) freely however I don't think they have the right to praction there religious beliefs outside of there house or church.
I Believe people have the right to be whoever they like but within limits.
I Believe people of all Ethnic and religious backgrounds deserve the same rights as All of us, but I believe if a Group of people have threaten our way of life there should be a trial period when they arrive in our country to determine if there a threat and once determined not a threat let them live in peace if determined they are a threat then they should be deported.(IE once the war on terror is over this can be suspended)
I believe Support to other countrys aid, should be given only if it benefits America and its people's (IE Israel) I don't believe forgien aid should be given to nations in poverty simply based on the fact there in poverty We should take care of our problems first. (IE America First)

So To sum this up please stop with the slurs against my person. I am not a Nazi or Racist nor Do I discriminate against people. I don't believe in Totalirian Governments (IE Fascism,Communist). This is my platform Agree Disagree this is who I am.

[MetalMilitia]

You need to get out more.

:D

-MM- :crs:

[DontBeAfraid]

You do discrimate. Women deserve everything men do. Gays dont CHOOSE their lifestyle, you dont know any gays. I agree religion should stay in church and at home, take god out of the pledge and off our money. Not everybody CAN work. Be mean to the earth and it will be mean to us. Get rid of the bill of rights and you no longer have the ability to go against the grain of the government, so you contradict yourself when you say you would like to be able to question the government while not having the right to do so.

It sickens me to think that there are still people who think like you around....

[mickydoolittle]

CF, if you are taking these on-line tests seriously, you are a discredit and a disgrace to every conservative on the face of my planet. Even the moderate conservatives are disappointed.

This is not to encourage you to leave the board (no. . .don't do that) but to encourage you to continue to post without notice of the bullshit tactics and empty arguments which are built on nothing more substantial than the very farts of those who like to sniff those farts with an alarming regularity.

In short: grow a pair, stop whining, and argue to your hearts content.

While you're at it . . . start using some better grammar and punctuation. Nothing turns ppl off faster than reading a post written by a person apparently incapable of accurate spelling and proper structure.

If you have to take a breath, rub one out and then resume your response, by all means do so.

I know that works because DBA, ED, & DN told me that's what helps them. :Bott: :Blbl:
heh heh heh :devsmoke:

BTW - ED, I still think you're a tool.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Well, I never thought it would come to this but Now I must defend myself against the accusions that I'm a Nazi,Racist,Totalitarian,etc.. So here Is my baseline.....

We interrupt this program with a PSA, the following rhetoric has been found to be dangerous to the REAL Constitution, one-sided, racist and bigotted, sexist and apt to sink even the largest cruise ship with its weight! Please be warned that we are observing this individual and should he continue his totalitarian thinking we will use the full power of the REAL Constitution, Bill of Rights, civil, human and sexual rights, a large collegiate Webster's Dictionary and MickyDoolittles right testicle to rein in his terrorist activity. Also, we just got word in that a large form, appearing to be lizard in shape has just exited the spaceship that has landed on the roof of this individuals house! More at 11! We now return you to this blahblahwhineblahblahsniffleblahblah already in progress.


So To sum this up please stop with the slurs against my person. I am not a Nazi or Racist nor Do I discriminate against people. I don't believe in Totalirian Governments (IE Fascism,Communist). This is my platform Agree Disagree this is who I am.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I know that works because DBA, ED, & DN told me that's what helps them. :Bott: :Blbl: Hehehe, what works even better is not succumbing to tunnelvision, sheeplistic thinging. This guy has more shackles clamped on his person than I have hairs. :alien:

[Ghostrider ESP]

You know for an 18 year old you don't half upset some people. Now is the time to be exploring everyone's views and learning little bits and pieces from them, you don't have to agree with them to do this, just open your mind a little.

If every view you have at 18 is every view you are ever going to have then I would suggest suicide as an option. Apparently you've been this way since you were 12 too. You've missed the best years of your life kid. Go out, live a little and if you still feel like this after fifteen years then it's for you. Some people (thankfully) change.

There is such a thing as an open-minded conservative you know, you don't have to set your life policies in stone just yet.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Damn Ghostrider! If that avatar pic really is you..youre pretty hot for a white guy! WOOHOO! :thumbs:

[Marajadex]

THANK YOU!!!

Thank you to:
mickydoolittle for saying it better than I could,
Defiant Noquisi for adding perspective,
MetalMilitia for hitting the nail on the head! he he he
DontBeAfraid for protecting peoples rights,
and
Ghostrider ESP for shooting straight from the hip.

Conservative Front you have the right to believe what you want. As Ghostrider said, at 18, you have not had the chance to experience what life is all about. I know you feel like you have, when I was your age I would have said I know what life is all about and said it just as loudly and passionately. Don't confuse politics with religion with moral integrity. Each of these things are their own set of values. Sometimes they are at odds with other and sometimes they overlap. Just open your eyes, ears and mind. Believe what you feel in your heart is right. Temper your self with the thought of "How would I feel if I were treated this way". Learn about that which you disagree with. You might find you were right all along. However you might learn that you were wrong and have a change of philosophy. (By the way... I cannot spell to save my life. I rely on the spellcheck button to proof read my posts. Mickydoolittle may be opinionated but he is right on the mark about spelling and punctuation being correct to add credence to what you are saying.)

[VegasRonin]

Womens Rights is a funny thing to me too. I feel a woman should be able to do anything she wants but I want her to be held to the same standards as a man. If she's applying for a physical job then I expect her to be able to carry or lift the same as a the male applicant. Women in the Army pissed me off. Why in the hell do they have different PT standards? I knew a female Sgt. in the Army that refused to be graded by the women's standard, and she could max a PT test using the males standard. Now that's what I'm talking about. :respect: At the same time if I wanted my mate to be my equal then I'd couple with a male, and we all know that ain't happening. :Bott: Oh yeah, if they want to be equal then stop suing Dudes for child support too. :Blbl:

[MetalMilitia]

I agree VR. I mean no disrespect towards women, but I have worked with a few that seemingly WANTED the same treatment (equal pay, ranks whatever) but when it came to doing the heavy lifting / more physically demanding tasks, they would try to get out of it and want special attention. It's like they want all the good benefits of equal rights, but not the shitty parts :D Hope thats makes sense.

The thing that bothers me


The Bill of rights would be thrown out, programs such as the ACLU would be diminished and constitunal rights would be fully restored.

I hope to (whatever god) you are kidding me. That's the worst thing I could ever imagine! That's ****ing outrageous....

-MM- :crs:

[Conservative Front]

The bill of rights doesn't grant you the freedom of speech that would be the consitiution. Gays, Do choose there life style like it or not there is NO evidence that gays our inherently born gay deal with it. I'm glad to see you agree with me on the church issue. Taking God out of the pledge would be disgusting and taking it off our money? Why are you so offend by a word? It doesn't harm you does it? It does discriminate you does it? Women should have equal rights to a man, I'm just more of a traditional kind of guy, I believe Men should be providers (not to say women can't have jobs etc...) but look how disrespectful men (as a collective whole) our to women now.

Perhaps If I sicken you so much You should heed the advice of liberals and open you're mind.
----end response to dontbeafraid----

I don't take any of the online test serious, infact the only test i've taken is some libertarian biased one, I used the defining values from one to simplfie my beliefs and so I could copy and paste. What can I say I was feeling lazy.

Sorry about my grammar but in short I am only 17, Just started college (Political Science,Economics,Journalism, and Public Relations) " going for a double major in Political Science and Economics and a Double minor In Journalism and Public Relations" I do take you're criticism as constructive and will improve my grammar in time. and I don't need to leave the board :)

---end response to mickydoolittle---

Like I said I'm not longer dignfie personal attacks that I'm a bigot anymore

---end response to defiant---

Politics has pretty much been my life, I've always been fascinated with the interworkings of our political system, yes I am young but am pro-found in my beliefs, to most it sounds like argonace's but through out my Highschool years i've aced my Government and Debate and Speech classes. and Trust me I do have an "open-mind" I can debate left idealogy against what I believe ( I'm not saying I believe in left idealogy just making a statement that I know both sides )

Like I said, my goals in life our to pursue a senate seat, but until then I would like to start as a Lobbyist (personnal a Congressnol Aid) so I have lived I just am Deeply passionate about my beliefs.
---end response to Ghostrider----

Trust me on this I'm aware I haven't expreniced all there is in life, I'm not even going to pretend I have infact it would be absurd for me to lie about that. but read my response to Ghostrider, and It will explain that I have been passionately involved in politics and government what can I say I love Politics I love debating I can see both sides and I've done enough research and devoted enough time into politics to understand them and I can separate Politics,Religion,etc... With most politics Religion can play a huge role in them likewise It can play no roll at all. and I'm young and Writing was never a strong point for me (well punctation wise) but I'm attempting to learn it more over. and to end my response to you I have factored in "would I like to be treated this way" and the answer is yes, I believe people need to be self efficient, etc... (and no I'm not just some rich kid I was raised protemtly in a poor-middle class family from 1-10 then my mother got a slighty higher paying job that put us in a more Middle-class family)
---end response to marajexdax---

In my opinion the ACLU is the enemy of the state, they our racist,biased,and unfair.

---end respose to metalmilitia--

[Marajadex]

Being female and being one who has always tried to pull my own weight... I have always felt that the type of women who want all the equalities yet none of the responsibilities give women a bad name. If you agree to do a job then you are agreeing to the job description not just the parts that you feel like doing. I could rant about this all night but that would really take this OT...

[Conservative Front]

I agree with you completely on that and I believe that is one of the biggest problems with the womens movement, they wanted what was convienet :vbroll:

[DontBeAfraid]

Oh I get you, you want every religion but YOURS taken out of the public. You have done ZERO research on the homosexual issue, it is obvious from your position on the subject. Tell me, do hermaphrodites choose to be born that way? Do homosexual animals choose to be born that way?

What is the first amendment? and which amendments are considered the bill of rights? Answer wrong and you're ignored forever.

[mickydoolittle]

So here Is my baseline political Platform. whine whine whine
Well, here goes nothing or everything? The board will decide . . .you should not open your post with whining.


The Bill of rights would be thrown out?
You would throw out the bill of rights? I'm going to call you hitler and fidel and sadaam, or Hidelaam. This is because you are tramping on everything that makes AMERICA, well, AMERICA. Shame on you and shame on your children and shame on your children's children for one month.

You should not be allowed around small children, animals or drunks. Nor should you be allowed around flies, as you would in all likelihood pull their wings off and make them march in lockstep to your tyrannical beliefs while forcing them to always be praising you and your indecency.


To start I will give my defining political values.
I must write that your statements made me think only long enough to shudder and be thankful for the patriot act.


DEFINING VALUES: blah blah blah blippity blah.
In other words, small minded, among *edited by a big dumb censor monger*. Ha.Ha.


and now I will back each claim up with why I give support to this specific ideals.
If you consider this back-up, I'm enraged. This doesn't please micky in any way.


Pro-Business- A free market place is essential for American prosperity and economic wealth weather you work for a business own a business or are thinking of starting a business.
That?s more commonly known as capitalism. Say it out loud: C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M. And although the market is tough, it does indeed weed out the loafers and dead weight. You probably think that Nixon fuq'd AMERICA by removing AMERICA from the gold standard. :ohmy:


Pro-Military- A large and properise Military and Military technologies is need to protect our homelands and ensure safety amongs our people's and nation.
Yes, we do have a strong military. It's called the NUCLEAR bomb and a multi-lateral defense system. You should thank Reagan for this. You should place flowers on his grave and offer thanks to his great legacy.


Intolerant Towards gays- I have no problem with Gay(s) not expecting rights from common people, gays have chosen there life style (ask any and they will back that up) They do not deserve special rights based on there sexual orientation
Well, here's some common sense after an ocean of nonsense. Although this is to be a brief respite.


Anti-Social Welfare- I do not believe poor people deserve the money of my labor or anyone(s) labor, If they refuse to work to get some where in life then they deserve to be where they are. I do support a program that would allow people to receive job training if they our laid off, but they would not gain any government funds.
Again, a brief respite. So, as long as ppl work for the day, they should be able to eat? I like that, John Smith felt the same way. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn.


Anti-Eviromental- The earth belongs to us, we do not belong to the earth.
Wrong. You live on my planet. You, belong to micky. If you don't like it, get off my planet and live elsewhere. How long are you going to keep shitting in your backyard & ask why things stink so much and how come the flies are so thick?


Distrustful of government- I do have the ability (contry to what most of you believe) to question everything our government does. No, you have the ability to question your gov't because the founding fathers wrote such safeguards into the operating doctrine of the gov't--they knew that sooner or later someone like you would come along and try to fuq it all up. It's more a matter of legal speak than anything else. Well, that and the fact that few countries are AS GREAT AS MY AMERICA!


Unsupportive of womens movement- Do I believe women have the right to vote Yes I do Do I believe women have the right to particpate in womens sports Yes, however look at the drawbacks this movement has had, men no longer open doors for ladies pull out there chairs ect... They want to be like men I believe Men are suppose to provide for women not vise versa.
So you're against equality for women? Women have done just as much for AMERICA, if not more than men have. Just because men were the public face of control and operations, doesn't mean the skirts weren't really running things. An unfortunate example of this is the Clinton administration. Women don't want to be like men, they want the same acceptance that men are given each and every day. Get your ass in the kitchen and cook three meals a day with a baby hanging off of one nipple and two more hanging off of your legs.


These our my defined core values now I will answer concerns that have risen through out my time posting here.
Yeah, you're worried about a bunch of opinions that really should have no basis on your life in the first place. I'll remind you that this is the internet.

You have mail: Subject: You're a *edited by a big dumb censor monger*.


Accusions Perhaps, Accusations would better suit this opening line. . .


#1 I'm a Nazi- No, Infact I'm not racist at all contary to what a few members seem to instill I am in no way racist I have never said I hated Muslims.
You don't have to be a nazi to be a racist. Farrakhan has shown this to be true. Christianity is simply another tool of controlling the masses. Just another notch on the belt of the same world order prez is so fond of. . .


#2 I'm a Totalitirain. This is just absurd, I don't believe the government should control ever aspect of life, nor Do I believe people(s) should not be able to speak out against the government.
Perhaps you should research what totalitarianism is about.


#3 I'm a Christian Extremist. Wrong again, I don't even attend church. I just believe We should live by these morals and ethics and it should be, part of our lifes that influences our nation and people(s). ? However I can't claim superiority over my religion just its Ethic and Moral Values.
You don't have to attend church to be an extremist. Theodore Kaczynski, anyone. . .or perhaps Timothy McVeigh? By claiming that the ethics and values of your religion are superior, you are proclaiming your religion to be superior. You can't separate the two, as they are in fact one in the same.


So to end my abrigded platform. I believe America should be a Land based on our Initial Constitunal Rights, I believe we should be a Morally Inclined country and live my Christian Ethics and Morals as a norm Of living standard.
Your standard for living would create the greatest number of assassins intent on ending your life. More than has been seen since time began ticking over a gov't. I for one would support those very assassins.


--I believe People have the right to worship there own god(s) freely however I don't think they have the right to praction there religious beliefs outside of there house or church.
Just as long as their act of worship and faith are what you believe. whackjob.


I Believe people have the right to be whoever they like but within limits.
And you are the judge of those limits, because. . .? What makes you more qualified than micky? Or DBA? Or Mike? Or even Mensa Genius for that matter? Or the big silly fairy MetalMilitia?


(IE once the war on terror is over this can be suspended)
But the problem with your last sentence resides in who's to be the judge of when the war on terror is over. There will always be the threat of terrorism; hence, there will always be a war against terrorism. It's a conundrum that will forever boggle the mind of those incapable of hardy intelligent thought.


I believe Support to other countrys aid, should be given only if it benefits America and its people's (IE Israel) I don't believe forgien aid should be given to nations in poverty simply based on the fact there in poverty We should take care of our problems first. (IE America First)
Only if it benefits AMERICA? Hhhhmmmm. . .so if your neighbor was working on his/her truck and the same truck fell on your neighbor pinning them and causing imminent death, you would not help unless you got something out of it? *edited by a big dumb censor monger*


So To sum this up please stop with the slurs against my person. I am not a Nazi or Racist nor Do I discriminate against people.
Liar. You sure do discriminate. Your entire posts provides ample evidence of such. You should be banished to the farthest reaches of my planet and you should be made to forever carry a permanent sign that has the words *edited by a big dumb censor monger* written upon it.

I take back my observations about you being grounded upon solid foundations and admirable beliefs systems. You disgust micky more than Jesse Jackson,and that's quite a large amount of disgustful *edited by a big dumb censor monger*.

[DontBeAfraid]

There are a few words/phrases you might want to edit mickey.... wouldnt want you to get banned you know.

[MetalMilitia]

Come on MD, no personal attacks.

It's ridiculous.

-MM- :crs:

[mickydoolittle]

Come on MD, no personal attacks.

It's ridiculous.

-MM- :crs:


No, it's so goddamned hilarious you cower in the wake left behind by the laughter and all consuming humor.

You can't deny you laughed 'till you shit yourself.

[MetalMilitia]

It's not my fault you resort to childish name calling. It's beneath you man.

2.)Respect other people and their opinions. If you want to have an argument please try to back up your views instead of just saying, "I'm right, you're wrong." It is not required to have evidence to support your opinion, however don't get upset if someone challenges you because you don't. Please refrain from name calling. We're supposed to be adults. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

3.) Anything distasteful or offensive - vulgar language, images or usernames - is unacceptable.

The owners of Armageddon Online Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

Keep the gloves up and we don't have this kind of problem. Retaliate with filth and you will get the (and I emphasize this) mild moderating we do have around here.

-MM- :crs:

[Ghostrider ESP]

No, it's so goddamned hilarious you cower in the wake left behind by the laughter and all consuming humor.

You can't deny you laughed 'till you shit yourself.

Sorry I took so long to reply it took me so long to wipe the mess off my pants and the furniture.

No actually, it didn't even raise a smile. You're about as funny as tooth extraction and just a really sad, pathetic individual. :sleeping:

[mickydoolittle]

Sorry I took so long to reply it took me so long to wipe the mess off my pants and the furniture.

No actually, it didn't even raise a smile. You're about as funny as tooth extraction and just a really sad, pathetic individual. :sleeping:

. . .this coming from the liar that is endeared to none here

[Ghostrider ESP]

. . .this coming from the liar that is endeared to none here

Show me one of these lies you keep referring to because I can show you plenty of posts where people are more than a little p#ssed with your inane drivel. You sound like a scratched piece of vinyl, as you have no idea who I am how can you accuse me of lying?

Back to the four year old in the playground argument. :spy:

[mickydoolittle]

Show me one of these lies you keep referring to because I can show you plenty of posts where people are more than a little p#ssed with your inane drivel. You sound like a scratched piece of vinyl, as you have no idea who I am how can you accuse me of lying?

Back to the four year old in the playground argument. :spy:

If micky gave a shit about ppl being "more than a little p#ssed", it would be a different board and not nearly as much fun. If you are so put out by my "inane drivel", then why bother reading it or taking the time out of your oh so busy schedule of masturbation to reply?

Keep posting your lies and bullshit rhetoric you've become known for on this board. Liar. Lies and lies and lies and more lies. . .your every post is a lie. You are apparently incapable of posting without resorting to lies. Good for you. Continue in setting that fine example for your spawn to follow. :vbroll:

[Ghostrider ESP]

If micky gave a shit about ppl being "more than a little p#ssed", it would be a different board and not nearly as much fun. If you are so put out by my "inane drivel", then why bother reading it or taking the time out of your oh so busy schedule of masturbation to reply?

Keep posting your lies and bullshit rhetoric you've become known for on this board. Liar. Lies and lies and lies and more lies. . .your every post is a lie. You are apparently incapable of posting without resorting to lies. Good for you. Continue in setting that fine example for your spawn to follow. :vbroll:

I can type with one hand, so it's not a problem.

Hey, if you say I'm a liar then it must be true. Can't think of anyone else on this board who has resorted to calling me a liar though. :liar:

[mickydoolittle]

blah blah blippety blah you take too long.


Later hater. :devsmoke:

[Ghostrider ESP]

I can type with one hand, so it's not a problem.


It's the reading the replies I have a problem with, going blind all the time and all.

[mickydoolittle]

I can type with one hand, so it's not a problem.

Hey, if you say I'm a liar then it must be true. Can't think of anyone else on this board who has resorted to calling me a liar though. :liar:

You're still a liar no matter what you post about being able to type while pleasuring yourself. BTW - You just admitted to the board of jerking off while responding to MD. :ohmy:

You are a liar that is perverted beyond modern help. Piggy.

[mickydoolittle]

I assure you, it is the truth; so sayeth the mickydoolittle.

[Ghostrider ESP]

You're still a liar no matter what you post about being able to type while pleasuring yourself. BTW - You just admitted to the board of jerking off while responding to MD. :ohmy:


Just goes to show that responding to your inane waffle and CHILDISH insults doesn't take much thought or effort. Helps me stop falling asleep.

[Conservative Front]

Yes, You've pretty much got it. but really the only people that our offended by the word "God" our an extreme minority group "Atheist" and they do not deserve special rights under any circumstance, they choose not to believe in religion and we as a collective whole should not give into there indoctrination.
I've done enough research into homosexuality to know that it is a Chosen lifestyle, there is no genetic code for gays and they will openly admit that it's chosen. Homosexual animals? I don't think that little sketch on south park was suppose to be takin literally.

The First Admenent is Free Speech, and I'm not going to go through the entire bill of rights tonight, perhaps Ill post it at an earlier hour tomorrow and I will separate the too.
--end response dontbeafriad---


This is udder nonsense and I'm going to be the bigger man and walk away from this extreme partisan personal attack

---end response to micky---

[Marajadex]

CF as you state you know about genetic code then you know that there are:
YY Male
YX Male
XY Female
XX Female

The YY Male is most definalty MALE. There is no question there.
The XX Female is most defiantly Female.
As you know genetics you know it is the 2 codes in the middle where things get a little mixed up. A little too much of one or the other and you genetically predisposed to have more male qualities or more female qualities. Think about the genetic assigning of eye color. It takes a Blue Blue combination to have blue eyes. A Blue Brown combination will result in brown eyes. Same with hair color. Same with genetically inherited disease. Why would you think that sexuality would not also be genetically predetermined.

It is painfully obvious that you do not know many if any gay people. I have worked with and know many gay and lesbian people. Not one of them have ever said they choose being gay. As a matter of fact they have said if it were a choice why would I choose it. I even worked with a guy who was, at the time, realizing no matter how much he wanted a girlfriend he was just more attracted to men.

AND what is wrong with people being comfortable and happy with whom ever they want? You have the right to choose your friends, your relationships why can't everyone be afforded that same right. Once again put your self in their position. Wouldn't you want all the same rights you have now? Do some more research.

[Conservative Front]

You didn't really prove anything to me with you're genetic make up outline, and yes I have knowin gay people and the ones that i've asked said the choose it so really this is more a matter of personal basis.

And I didn't say Gay people shouldn't be together, I simply don't believe they have the right to marry, If we start changing the Consuition to adapt a lifestyle, then who knows how far it can go. And I really believe if Gay people keep pushing for Rights and extra's then there going to become shunned and Ill quote here "If You want everything you'll end up with nothing" now I personally have no problem with gays I just don't think they deserve marriage rights.

[DontBeAfraid]

CF you have done zero research on any issue.... you take rushes word as truth.

[humanhybrid]

Thats the drug addict isnt it? Rush Limbaugh

[Marajadex]

Thats the drug addict isnt it? Rush Limbaugh

If you put Rush Limbaugh drug addict in to a google search you come up with 25,700 listings. Here are 2 of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/10/10/rush.limbaugh/
http://pssht.com/biography/rush_limbaugh.html

[Conservative Front]

Even on Drugs Rush is RIGHT.

and how do you claim I haven't done any research? Is it because my opinion differs from ours? Isn't that what you libs call being "close minded" or is it only close minded when we don't agree with you.

[mickydoolittle]

Even on Drugs Rush is RIGHT.

and how do you claim I haven't done any research? Is it because my opinion differs from ours? Isn't that what you libs call being "close minded" or is it only close minded when we don't agree with you.

No, it's not considered close-minded because they don't think as you. It's considered close-minded because it's regressionist thought coupled with isolationism all the while being spouted from a contradictory blow hard drug addict that lies often, almost as often as some new members of this board.

[Conservative Front]

Well Mickey it seems from you're point of view, that if you don't agree with it then it's wrong. And you're defense to libs being close minded was and well for a lack of a better word Wrong. It seems that if the libs don't agree with me then I'm close minded, and I can back that up with several post. and to me that sounds being "close minded".

[MetalMilitia]

Stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a liberal, or a left-ist, it's lame.

I have "conservative" friends that support Bush, and we can argue BEYOND just calling each other stupid political names and giving each other labels.

So here's the basics on drug usage according to Rush Limbaugh:

1) drug use is bad,
2) drug use destroys families and our society,
3) people use drugs by personal choice, NOT by disease,
4) drug users should be accused, convicted, and sent to prison

But hold onto your hats folks, in the late summer/early fall of 2003, the National Enquirer (I think) newspaper reported that Rush Limbaugh was a drug user. His housekeeper (former?) was apparently out doing his drug shopping for him. Limbaugh countered that these were all lies. But when the evidence was just too great, Limbaugh admitted that he was indeed addicted to drugs and entered himself into a rehabilitation clinic.

In other words, Limbaugh was shown to be a liar, a drug addict, and a hypocrite in one fell swoop.

Nothing like hypocrites, gotta love hypocrites.

PS: I had been hesitating to comment on this, but it's warranted now. Use 'gooder' grammar :D

-MM- :crs:

[Conservative Front]

It's funny that you say that because after he got out of the rehibilation center his ratings sky rocketed. Almost sounds like a well thought-out pubilicty stunt to me and has he been convicted?

And I don't believe I have called everone that disagree's with me a leftist or a liberal, but wouldn't it make sense? I'm a Conservative so naturally my opposition would be liberals correct?

[VegasRonin]

PS: I had been hesitating to comment on this, but it's warranted now. Use 'gooder' grammar Yeah, and the Spellchecker. The guys went through a lot to make us look intelligent. Take advantage of it, you need it. Just messin whichya, but seriously....

[Conservative Front]

Yeah, I know I'll admit i'm not the best writer in the world. But that damned spell checker doesn't work so great.

[DontBeAfraid]

Not yet but according to rush he needs to be tried convicted and sent up the river.... gullug gullug

[mickydoolittle]

Well micky it seems from you're point of view, that if you don't agree with it then it's wrong.
No, it has nothing to do with being in agreement. I'm not sure you are ready to comprehend my pov, but I assure it is nothing remotely similart to the pov's you have presented. I'm referring to the pov of your's that insists upon your ideals being the only ideals for my entire planet, as well as the same pov of your's that insists those who refuse to uphold the same values (I know, it's questionable to refer to them as values, but. . .) as yours, should be relocated. I'm also referring to the same that set of values of your's that require closing the doors of my AMERICA to any future entrants.


And you're defense to libs being close minded was and well for a lack of a better word Wrong.
I'm not defending liberals. I'm joining them in their efforts to show you the error of your ways. This has nothing to do with liberals. This has nothing to do with conservatives. This has everything to do with bringing the largest amount of information to you for your educational supplementation. I know, I was young once too and thought my way was the only way things should be--it was the result of going to church.

By all means, continue to behave as you currently are and see the results of your actions. I'm sure you will be quite sucessful and that much more popular because of those ideals.. :vbroll:


It seems that if the libs don't agree with me then I'm close minded, and I can back that up with several post. and to me that sounds being "close minded".
No, it's not that the libs think you're close minded because they don't think like you--they as well as micky think you could benefit from broadening your horizons as your current beliefs are quite indicative of the narrow minded ideals of a very uneducated an uninformed person.


I'm a Conservative so naturally my opposition would be liberals correct?
Nope. I hate idiots with a passion most would agree upon as disturbing and you have quite a substantial amount of opposition from me. I am not a liberal. I do however defend intelligent debate and solidly built arguments--partisan platforms be damned. Anything less than that on this board is open for ridicule, in this bastard's opinion. The board and the majority of the members here (no, not all the members) are just too damn great to direspect by not posting with accuracy and intelligence.

Now where the hell is ED? ED could offer some accurate rebuttals to your mass hysteria concerning all things conservative v. liberalism. Come on ED, where the hell are you?

[Defiant Noquisi]

It's funny that you say that because after he got out of the rehibilation center his ratings sky rocketed. Almost sounds like a well thought-out pubilicty stunt to me and has he been convicted? Interesting how conservatives have become so good at explaining away and justifying digressions among their camp and expecting people such as myself to just swallow it. However, it is disturbing that you change the focus from his illegal drug use to his ratings. The way you posted makes it appear that you find his actions acceptable.

Either he is a liar because of illegal drug use or he is a liar about his actions and used them to boost ratings. They both equal the same thing, Rush is as dangerous to conservatives as Micheal Moore is to liberals. We have every right to observe government activity and question its motives. We also have just as much right in questioning the motives of the alleged unscrupulous activity of those who claim to being an example of merit.


And I don't believe I have called everone that disagree's with me a leftist or a liberal, but wouldn't it make sense? I'm a Conservative so naturally my opposition would be liberals correct? Not neccesarily. I invited a very conservative friend of mine to read some of your commentary and he is wincing. In fact he likens you to being extremist and he is right wing conservative. He cant understand how at so young an age you are so extremist in your views. There are also many conservatives that cant stand Rush, him being one of them.

You have all the right in the world to listen to Rush but realize that all his posturing, lies and name calling does nothing to forward conservative agenda. The example he sets is nothing more than overblown posturing to brainwash people into listening to his rhetoric. In fact, it destroys any positive views I may have had as a moderate in supporting a conservative platform, which contrary to popular belief, Indians tend to be. In fact, just your commentary alone was proof enough for me to fight against more conservative views.

I would much rather have you label me a liberal than to live under the "morals" and dictates you have proposed in this thread. Slavery was outlawed a long time ago and I would do everything I could to keep it that way.

[mickydoolittle]

I would much rather have you label me a liberal than to live under the "morals" and dictates you have proposed in this thread. Slavery was outlawed a long time ago and I would do everything I could to keep it that way.

Excellent DN, excellent. :Bow: I'm right there with you. :toast:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Excellent DN, excellent. :Bow: I'm right there with you. :toast: Thank you. Hey Im all for someone being staunch in their beliefs, you and I dont always agree. But this youngster truly frightens me with his bastion of moral turpitude. Even my right winger buddy was scared and hes been around for, um, well since dirt was invented! LOL Hes been around the block for alooooooong time! He was even considering running for office once (one of the few right wingers I might have ever voted for) but he decided not to because he wasnt "dirty" enough and no one would believe him.

Oh yes, another thing he mentioned was that not only are conservative Christians supposed to act in a dignified and moral manner, but MODESTY is a huge part of it. Another reason he didnt run, you cant be a politician and/or extreme in your views and be modest. He'd rather be modest and uphold his beliefs. Hes one of the very few Christians I can tolerate being around and I have yet to find a note of hypocrisy in him. He lets everybody else do that. :Llol:

[VegasRonin]

Sheesh DN! That guy doesn't sound fun at all. :Bott: j/k :kiss:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Sheesh DN! That guy doesn't sound fun at all. :Bott: j/k :kiss: Bite me VR!! Ill even show you where. :grin

[Conservative Front]

duely noted Mickey.

---end response to mickey---

Like you said and many others Rush Limbaugh is an entertianer I've never denied or denouced that one bit, yet while he still has truth in what he says It's still his job to keep ratings, and Ill always keep listening to him (though to more i listen to Hannity, the closer I am to choosing him as the Conservative guru on the radio).

I am Extremely right-wing, I've never denied that. Why can't he understand my extreme views? If it makes you feel better I've formed my opinion with zero influence. (my mother is a Moderate Conservative,My Father is an Economic Conservative, My Girlfriend is a Moderate Liberal,My sister is a democratic liberal, and my brother is an extremist like me) however. I'm set in stone in my beliefs.

How is Rush brainwashing people? They can turn off the radio if they don't like what he says, and all the years i've been listening to Rush I don't think i've heard him. Name Calling before He will tell people what they are if there agenda is such. It's a shame that one person can turn you into a liberal, but thats you're choice and I respect you're opinion.

I don't think I ever suggested slavery, so keep fighting I'm fighting the something.

---end response to defiant---

To add a bit to the picture I am extreme right-winged in my views, but I am also a realist. I know I cannot have everything I want there always has to be a middle ground to please most people. I can draw a distinction between My own personal views, Right-wing agenda, but with a please left-wing side dish. I know I could never fight for Extremism, because Like you said Defiant It scares people. So note that yes I am and Extremist, but I am however a realist.

[VegasRonin]

IMO anyone that admits to being an extremist , and at the same time being okay with that, is missing something. I have extreme views in some areas but I temper them with my common sense and tolerance for other's points of view. Its either that or just be angry at the human race for not acknowledging my God status. :D

[mickydoolittle]

Its either that or just be angry at the human race for not acknowledging my God status. :D

You and me both--although, you have the intelligence and ninga code to out-god micky. :thumbs:

[VegasRonin]

I don't think I can claim having a more superior intellect than you Micky. Alas, enough of the Reach-Arounds though. :vbroll:

[mickydoolittle]

Ohhhhh.....you magnificent bastard. :toast:

sonofabitch...-md- just realized he was humbled in a gratuitous fashion. . .

[Defiant Noquisi]

My Girlfriend is a Moderate Liberal,My sister is a democratic liberal Just curious, do you spank your girlfreind and sister with opinion like you have here? The reason I ask is because you are so passionate about you views I wouldnt have believed you could tolerate being with a liberal.


How is Rush brainwashing people? Easy, I posted his verbal "anomolies" and you called me a lair.


I don't think I ever suggested slavery, so keep fighting I'm fighting the something. You never used the word slavery but you have suggested your platform for government more than once as being the "right" way. However, you dont seem to remember how intolerant Christian ideology can be and how little "bend" there is towards others, such as myself who are spiritually "different".


I know I could never fight for Extremism, because Like you said Defiant It scares people. So note that yes I am and Extremist, but I am however a realist. Smart thinking considering the images being brought to mind these days when the word "extremist" is heard.

The reason my buddy was wincing at your posts is because he is very conservative, even with his beliefs and comments. Its taken me years to get out of him what I know now. He keeps it to himself for the most part but he grew up in some podunk lil town out in the heartland that was pretty conservative anyway, so he grew up that way. When I say conservative its not just about politics with him. He is rather reserved.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Its either that or just be angry at the human race for not acknowledging my God status. :D You know *I* would never do that!

[mickydoolittle]

duely noted Micky.

---end response to micky---

If you're going to note such, then start implementing such. Some of us are growing weary of the monotony of "I'm a conservative and I want it all my way, blah blah blippety blah!!!"

:guill:

[DontBeAfraid]

Being "set in stone" in your ways is the epitomy of not having an open mind..... You are a closed minded bigot.... I feel mean.

[EmanuelGoldstein]

To start with my Platform the Consitition would play 100% Rule in my platform,The Bill of rights would be thrown out, programs such as the ACLU would be diminished and constitunal rights would be fully restored.


The first ten ammendments of the Constitution (not Cositition!) have a funny name they're sometimes called. Oh yeah, The Bill of Rights. You can't have ANY Costitutional rights without the Bill of rights, it's that simple.

[Conservative Front]

Nope, I don't spank them. You'd be suprised what I can tolerate, If someone is passionate about what they believe in I not only have tolerance towards them I respect them.

I never said I have a problem with you're spiritual differences, I merely suggest we should live my Christian morals and ethics I always have supported freedom of religion. I don't even suggest you think of converting to Christianity I'm simply saying as a Whole people would be better of if we up held Christain morals ethics and honor.

and I know my extreme idealogy isn't forever one, I don't expect everone to believe it. I can find a middle ground in everything I just tend to prefer the Rightwing agenda of it all.

---end respone to defiant---

I'm not missing anything I'll openly admit I'm a rightwing extremist, but I also realize how the world works and doesn't like extremist.

---end respone to vegas---


Just because I know who I am and what I'm fighting for makes me close minded? tell me Dontbeafraid, Would you ever agree with FarRight Conservative Idealogy?

---end respone to dontbeafraid---

I realize that, and after the first ten we don't really need the rest.

[Marajadex]

Hey Folks... Check this out.

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=91585

[DontBeAfraid]

CF, the first ten ARE THE BILL OF RIGHTS.... so you want to get rid of everything except the bill of rights now?

Throw 10-15 far right political(not religious) ideas at me.... lets see if i agree with any. Is smaller government a rightwing thing? because I dont think the govna should be able to tell me what I can and cant consume.

[substand]

To start with my Platform the Consitition would play 100% Rule in my platform,The Bill of rights would be thrown out, programs such as the ACLU would be diminished and constitunal rights would be fully restored.

Why would the bill of rights be thrown out? Freedom of speech for mad libs? Fags can b00f each other up the arsehole and have the right to buy buttplugs to fill the empty space? Would you throw out the subsequent amendments too? Would you disallow the amending process as specified and followed (for the most part) in the Constitution? The ACLU is not a "program," and in fact has defended Rush Limbaugh (whom I presume to be one of your heroes, for his oxycontin use- and I actually love listening to the man). They (aclu) may be retarded in some respects, but it is not a "program."

Furthermore, perhaps you should read some history. The bill of rights was not only a compromise between those who did and did not want it, but even those who didn't want it thought it unneccesary because it was REDUNDANT. Since the govt was not given the ability to regulate speech, religion, gun ownership, etc, in the first place, the bill of rights was not needed. So, given that we have it, what would you abolish? Keep in mind that the 9th and 10th amendmends (also in the BOR (http://www.constitutionallychallenged.com/home/billofrights.cfm)) said that (basically) "just since we specified some rights in the constitution to get it passed by some of the states in the union does not mean that these are the only rights people have, and in fact any rights not given to govt herein are retained by the people or states."

In fact, that is the whole essense of freedom and the constitution (as far as it pertains to ppl). The constitution was meant to restrain and restrict government only. Thus, not only do the "people" have every right declared in the Bill of Rights, they have every right not given to the government. I dare you to challenge otherwise. If you read the Fed and ant-fed papers, you will see my point. So even if you throw out the BOR and adhere solely to the original constitution (http://www.constitutionallychallenged.com/home/mainconst.cfm), you still get all the rights "granted" in the BOR, but you get no America because no one compromised on the "original" constitution.



and now I will back each claim up with why I give support to this specific ideals.


And I applaud you for it.



Pro-Business- A free market place is essential for American prosperity and economic wealth weather you work for a business own a business or are thinking of starting a business You must start here our entire wealth and economics is baselined in a Free Market and pro-business.


First, I agree with the others- you need to correctly spell and punctuate your positions. Second, I agree with you on that, but you never proved your point. I think even most non-communist liberals would agree with you in that a free market (and thus pro-business) is vital to american success. Even the father of modern day libs (FDR) "beleived" (some say he did, some say it was just politics) in limited govt, esp in the economic sector, even given Keynesianism.



Pro-Military- A large and properise Military and Military technologies is need to protect our homelands and ensure safety amongs our people's and nation.


This is probably true, but it sounds like a line that "conservatives" nowadays write to pay tribute to Reagan (God bless his soul). Many people beleive (at least partially correctly IMO) that Reagan's "miracle economy" came about thru Keynesian economics (and not "Reaganomics" or "trickledown economics") because of his deficit spending on the military.


Intolerant Towards gays- I have no problem with Gay(s) not expecting rights from common people, gays have chosen there life style (ask any and they will back that up) They do not deserve special rights based on there sexual orientation


Agreed- no special rights. Some gays say they were born that way, some say otherwise. If you are a Christian, you would tend to beleive God doesn't make mistakes (because if he did, he's not God) so by definition Gays arent born gay. But still, some of them choose to be gay, or bi, and some of them are taught that way directly or indirectly thru life experiences.



Anti-Social Welfare- I do not believe poor people deserve the money of my labor or anyone(s) labor, If they refuse to work to get some where in life then they deserve to be where they are. I do support a program that would allow people to receive job training if they our laid off, but they would not gain any government funds.


Nor do I think lazy ass people deserve the fruits of my labor. However, what do you think about disabled people who used to work, but lost a limb at thier job (say metal working)? What happens to them? Say they continue to work and they lose thier other arm? They weren't lazy, they lost both arms while working. What happens to them? And by definition, f they are in government funded "job training," they are getting govt funds. Sorry, you are no Gee Dubya "compassionate conservative," apparently.



Self-Defend patriot- Self explanatory


How is that self-explanatory? I'm probably one of the few who halfway agrees with you, but I still don't know what that means.



Distrustful of government- I do have the ability (contry to what most of you believe) to question everything our government does.


being distrustful of govt, you would revoke the bill of rights?



Little concern for the poor- READ ANTI-SOCIAL WELFARE


Thats fine- its hard to justify "legalized" theft to benefit anyone, unless you are robbin' 'hood.



Unsupportive of womens movement- Do I believe women have the right to vote Yes I do Do I believe women have the right to particpate in womens sports Yes, however look at the drawbacks this movement has had, men no longer open doors for ladies pull out there chairs ect... They want to be like men I believe Men are suppose to provide for women not vise versa.


Well, i suppose if you would get rid of the BOR, I wonder where you would give women the right to vote (not that its in the BOR technically). Psychotic women have ruined the women's movement, just as psycho fags have ruined the gay movement, just as psycho niggers have ruined the colored people's movement.

I also beleive men should provide for women. I still open the door for women, too. If you don't, then we should all ask "whats wrong with you?" If you open a door for a woman and she gets mad, screw the pink triangle carrying chick. I think women are better for raising kids than men... but men still play an uber-important role. In the end, I see nothing incompatible with men bringing home the bacon and helpling raise thier kids full time while women stay home. I see nothing wrong with women bringing home the bacon while raising thier kids full time while men stay home. If the kid ends up a good person either way, whats the difference?



#2 I'm a Totalitirain. This is just absurd, I don't believe the government should control ever aspect of life, nor Do I believe people(s) should not be able to speak out against the government.


you don't beleive the government should control "every aspect of life," but I wonder if you don't beleive the govt should control most, or even some of peoples lives. Give me an instance where it should control "any" bit of our lives- other than it should jail me for robbing you of life/libery/property. I'd love to hear it.



--I believe People have the right to worship there own god(s) freely however I don't think they have the right to praction there religious beliefs outside of there house or church.


Of course, you'd take away the "government granted" 1st amendment, right? Thats ridiculous. Taken literally, if I'm a protestant, I can't choose "not to drink" outside of church or home. I cant talk to people about my (or anyone elses) religion (abridging the 1st amendment "freedom of speech" clause also). Its just retarded. People don't have the freedom "from religion..." they have freedom of it. If anyone chooses to practice their religion in front of you, behind you, or beside you, they are not infringing on your rights. What you just said is about the most mongolian thing i've ever heard.



I Believe people have the right to be whoever they like but within limits.


And what are those limits? I can be a Muslim as long as I tell no one and dont get searched on the plane? I can be scottish and do the same thing? Maybe I can be born in America and love this country to death but my last name is halfrican arabic and therefore I'm a terrorist?

There are no limits on freedom insofar as you practice it without infringing on other people's freedom. And that freedom does not include "the freedom from annoyance." It only includes freedom that can't be changed, such as life, liberty, and property (without changining one of the 3- and I think you all know what I mean)

[substand]

I Believe people of all Ethnic and religious backgrounds deserve the same rights as All of us, but I believe if a Group of people have threaten our way of life there should be a trial period when they arrive in our country to determine if there a threat and once determined not a threat let them live in peace if determined they are a threat then they should be deported.(IE once the war on terror is over this can be suspended)


Ok. So when did Islam become a threat? Was it when my father moved here 25 years ago and married my mother? Is he a threat? Hell, am I a threat (other than to you thru words)? Are all the peaceful muslims who moved here in the last 100 yrs a threat? If they/we all are, what should be done about it? Internment camps like the yellow slanty eyed chinkish japs?

I just love all you people who say that Islamic/Arabic peoples can't/don't know democracy, because thier culture is so different, but do not recognise all the "converts" from ME society to Western society that have made it VERY WELL OFF in our culture.

Conservative talk show hosts are fond of proclaiming that "no muslims are standing up against the extremists" without bothering to take a call from a muslim, and ignoring obvious signs when they do. Its not enough on conservative talk radio to be a muslim american citizen with flags waving and denouncing on air the jihadists, who has put himself as a target for extremists- no, they must march by themselves to be true americans. They can't do it in a group- thats just to make business better- they must each do it alone but also together- there just is no winning if you are arabic- and you don't even have to be brown.

I love it even more because normally its the mad libs who are saying "Iraq is hopeless because they don't understand democracy," yet you appear to agree with the war. And again, yet you still seem to think asshole muslim terrorists and/or thier offspring who are brainwashed to kill bignosed "kyle's mom is a big fat bitch" jews, you still seem to think its incapable that I deserve democracy, because I came from a group that is singled out in the war on terror.

You Idiot, I'm probably the biggest supporter of the War on Terror that you'll ever meet. Yet you would deport me because I'm part of your stupid group that had a trial period and never worked out. I was a supporter of the WOT before Bush 43, and was just coming of age during clinton. I think Clinton's a joke, and though I often defend W, I'm not so sure he's better than Clinton (maybe he's a good joke).


I believe Support to other countrys aid, should be given only if it benefits America and its people's (IE Israel) I don't believe forgien aid should be given to nations in poverty simply based on the fact there in poverty We should take care of our problems first. (IE America First)


So we should go back to Truman's times and take the advice he was given and support the Arabs over the Jews. Because it was certainly not in America's best interest that we supported the Jews, propped up evil dictators to rule over the Muslims, and foresake oil for Abraham's son Isaac. No, it was in politicians' interests to support voting Jews. Obviously it was far better to support Ishmael and gain the oil, plus lose the terrorism we now face. So we have not always (or ever) done what is right for America in foreign policy... hopefully we will in the future. And while I beleive we should support Israel currently, it is not in America or its' peoples' best interests, nor has it ever been. Do not delude yourself into thinking that "its in our best interests to sustain the Israeli 'democracy' because its the only one in the ME." -- We could blow them all to hell and it doesn't matter. Its simply American public opinion that keeps us from abandoning Israel, and this can be seen from the conservative backlash against Bush when he asked Israel to stay calm and not retaliate against terror attacks hoisted upon it.


nor Do I discriminate against people. I don't believe in Totalirian Governments (IE Fascism,Communist).

You don't sound like a communist, but you certainly sound like a fascist to me. I don't discriminate either. "I hate everyone equally." Fascist pig.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Ok. So when did Islam become a threat? Was it when my father moved here 25 years ago and married my mother? Is he a threat? Hell, am I a threat (other than to you thru words)? Are all the peaceful muslims who moved here in the last 100 yrs a threat? If they/we all are, what should be done about it? Internment camps like the yellow slanty eyed chinkish japs?

<snip>

You don't sound like a communist, but you certainly sound like a fascist to me. I don't discriminate either. "I hate everyone equally." Fascist pig. I was wondering when you would arrive and blow this BS up. BTW, the youngster is supposedly following in your footsteps and going for a poly sci degree. And he's this extreme already. :grin

[Conservative Front]

Well perhaps I blow the bill of rights out of poportion, but I do believe it does more harm then good in most cases, perhaps if it was revised and set accordlying Id be more accepting towards it, nice job on shutting me down though I accept the consructive criticism.

and the problem with the ACLU is plan and simple Special Interest groups have destroyed it.

Ill make my claim to pro-business more accurate right now, Capitalism keeps economy in line, It allows the flow of money and for people if they choose to work hard be extremely successful It keeps people in jobs It allows more jobs to be created thru businesses It also always gives people opportunity "unless you're unwilling" to have a job. (thats the best i'm gonna do right now)

Reagan did a good job with the military but he's not the sole reason I believe in a large military.

What I mean by limits is Drugs should be outlawed. Alcohol should be legal but the legal limit for drinking and driving lowered and stricter pentalties for people under 21 drinking Abortion Stem Cell Research should be outlawed. I believe Sex should be semi regulated. Thats what I mean by limits. No Drugs, Stricter Drinking Laws, No abortion/stem cell, and sex to a degree.

i'm not saying they can't talk about it, i'm saying they shouldn't parade there religion around. i'm a firm believer in Freedom of Religion I believe you can worship what you want. I just don't believe special religious rights should be granted to minority groups.

read my response above "Reagan did a good job"

I men't the people coming to our country as of right now, not the established ones that are here.

I don't think arabs/islamics are incapable of democracy.

We're not in trumans times now, so i'm still defending my stance If It doesn't help america It's not helping me.

Nope, i'm certainly not a fascist. i'm a Far Right Conservative.

[DontBeAfraid]

CF would turn the US into a christian theocrasy.... He isnt saying he wants to limit all religions, just every religion that isnt christian. He beleives the government should control the individual and not the company. Tell me what a special interests group is and then name five. Tell me how fighting for the rights of individuals over the rights of the christian religion(special interests GROUP) is wrong. Tell me what you know about stem cells. Tell me how someone other than yourself having sex is ANY of YOUR business.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Ill make my claim to pro-business more accurate right now, Capitalism keeps economy in line, It allows the flow of money and for people if they choose to work hard be extremely successful It keeps people in jobs It allows more jobs to be created thru businesses It also always gives people opportunity "unless you're unwilling" to have a job. (thats the best i'm gonna do right now) Now that I can agree with as long as it is "responsible" capitalism. Im not upset or jealous with big business, big business has taken the concept of the "American Dream", gotten successful with it and expanded on it. Id never argure with that.

What does piss me off is crap like Enron, Halliburton and the like who take pride and success and turn it into greed and lust. Or when they sacrifice others to make a buck like Hooker Chemical, the local school board and Love Canal or the Space Shuttle Challenger.


Thats what I mean by limits. No Drugs, Stricter Drinking Laws, No abortion/stem cell, and sex to a degree. Why not stiffen the penalties instead of more laws? Dont bust on my ass because some low life jackass doesnt act responsibly, PUNISH THEM! Dont come after me. Likewise, stay out of my medicine cabinet. There are probably a few drugs out there that are helping me that youd probably want outlawed because YOU dont need them. Besides, where would you draw the line? Will you also outlaw the plants they derive from?

Until you stop your conservative politician heroes from sponsoring genocide in other countries, you dont have any right to dictate what a women choses to do with her own body nor what a doctor may do to find a way to save someones life. I dont agree with partial birth abortion (sickening) unless there is some medical neccessity, but I want YOU and your pro-life friends to step up and personally take responsibility so that not one child ends up on welfare. I can agree that not having an abortion is more "morally" responsible, but you would be the first to pat some new child mother on the back (if you outlawed abortion) and then walk away leaving her to figure it out as long as it doesnt cost you anything. Remember, no special programs for minorities and women under your type of government.

Also, you never did answer me elsewhere about staying out of my bedroom. Are you going to stand there and watch? Will you haul me off to prison if I masturbate?


i'm a firm believer in Freedom of Religion I believe you can worship what you want. I just don't believe special religious rights should be granted to minority groups. If it hadnt been for uptight, extreme Christian "morals" pushers, we would have never had to fight to get laws enacted to protect our rights in the first place. Even though the First Amendment addresses religion, some religious persecutionists passed un-Constitutional laws making American Indian spirituality illegal among other things. To top it off, in order to enforce it they, meaning "good, righteous, Christian men" would imprison our Elders, medicine people and adults, rape, torture and kill our women and kidnap, coerce and steal our children and torture, molest and sodomize them in boarding schools. In other words, they acted worse than the Iraqi extremists.

As long as there are christians like you that live, I want laws protecting me. Those laws keep honest christians honest.

Oh and by the way, you would be thanking your lucky stars and blowing kisses to the sky if someday there were enough "minorities" that were the controlling majority and your little pissant group of right wing christian conservatives were the true "minorities". But you said it yourself right? No special religious rights to minority groups?

Hey, Rome fell.


Nope, i'm certainly not a fascist. i'm a Far Right Conservative. I wouldnt be so quick to deny it if I were you.

fascist

adj : relating to or characteristic of fascism; "fascist propaganda" [syn: fascistic] n : an adherent of fascism or other right-wing authoritarian views

[Marajadex]

:respect:


{Marajadex Lights the APPLAUSE button for Defiant Noquisi and DontBeAfraid}


:respect:

[Conservative Front]

I wouldn't turn America into a Christian Theoracy, I merely SUGGEST we should live by the merits of the christian religion. and I don't want to limit religion infact I support the building of all religious temples and I support worship for whichever religion you practice.

A special interest group is a Group of people who are normally labeled a Minority I.E. NAACP. I don't support special interest groups because I don't believe they deserve superior rights I believe Blacks,Jews,Christians,Islams,Mexicans,whites,etc are equal and don't deserve minority rights nor do they deserve special rights what so ever. (and if there Illegal there needs to be stiffer deportations).

Stem Cell research kills a fetus. or another life.
(Pro Choice is no choice for someone)

I'm not saying its my business, I'm just saying there should be striceter regulations No Porn shops No encourgment of sex thru sex and commercials and I think the legal age for sex should be raised to 21 not 18.

---end response to dontbeafraid---

I agree we should stiffen the penaltys. I don't think new laws need to be entact we should just make our current laws tougher.

Abortion is ending a Life, how can you say otherwise? Take a child off of welfare? Wouldn't it be the parents responsibility to use Birth control or condoms if they plan on having sex and can't afford a baby? how dare you suggest we end the lifes of innocent children because of degenerate parents(adults). and yes no special rights its called RESPONSIBILITY. and doctors ending lifes to save lifes? seems ironic and sick to me. How can you end ones life to prolong some else life.

That was how many years ago? stop worrying about the past and see what you've got.

I wouldn't entact any law to prohibit religous practice. I've never said that.

I wouldn't want special rights, I believe we're all equal and don't need special rights to proclaim superiority (or as libs call it equality).

I'm not a Right-wing authoritarian. Infact nothing i've said has matched any fascism regime (past) but libs seems to think that if you're a Right-Wing Christian Conservative you're a fascist and denying them rights. (ahm ted kennedy,micheal moore)

---end respone to defiant---

[DontBeAfraid]

Rewrite that without contradicting any of your previous posts please.

you named one special interests group, although you got the definition all wrong, try again. Hint: its right in front of you.

[substand]

I was wondering when you would arrive and blow this BS up. BTW, the youngster is

supposedly following in your footsteps and going for a poly sci degree. And he's this extreme already.

:grin

Well thanks! But at the same time, I've got a poli sci and comp sci degree (and a math minor), so it could end

up good.


Well perhaps I blow the bill of rights out of poportion, but I do believe it does more harm then good in

most cases, perhaps if it was revised and set accordlying Id be more accepting towards it, nice job on shutting

me down though I accept the consructive criticism.

How do you blow it out of proportion except that you think its worthless? I think its redundant in that our

constitution is meant to LIMIT government, and not GRANT people rights. Our rights come from God or something

higher than Government (depends i guess on your worldview). So the "rights" to freedom of speech, press,

religion, guns, public trial, to not incriminate oneself, etc does not need to be granted by the bill of rights.

Because it is and you disagree with it makes me wonder about you nazism.


and the problem with the ACLU is plan and simple Special Interest groups have destroyed it.

Sure, special interest groups have destroyed everything. Even Reagan the populist catered to a special interest

group that was "long neglected," the "special interest group" (which he called them) of the "American people."

I think the ACLU is BS a lot of the time, but also they do good a lot of the time- say when they defend Rush

Limbaugh's right to keep his med records private, or when they challenged the electoral rules under

McCain-Feingold.


Ill make my claim to pro-business more accurate right now, Capitalism keeps economy in line, It allows

the flow of money and for people if they choose to work hard be extremely successful It keeps people in jobs It

allows more jobs to be created thru businesses It also always gives people opportunity "unless you're unwilling"

to have a job. (thats the best i'm gonna do right now)

So you still ignore the hard workers who worked all thier lives and then lost a limb or two. What does

capitalism do for them? They chose to work hard and they were more than extremely successful but they lost

thier job because they lost thier arm. They are not unwilling to have a job, they just cant find one because

when they were working in a machine shop they lost thier arms on the saws. So what does capitalism have in

store for them?

You know, I can come up for a hundred answers for these questions. Some of them may be right. A lot of times i

agree with you. A lot of times I don't. I'm hoping you can convince me on some of these but you've yet to come

up with a good reason.



What I mean by limits is Drugs should be outlawed. Alcohol should be legal but the legal limit for drinking and

driving lowered and stricter pentalties for people under 21 drinking Abortion Stem Cell Research should be

outlawed. I believe Sex should be semi regulated. Thats what I mean by limits. No Drugs, Stricter Drinking Laws,

No abortion/stem cell, and sex to a degree.


Drugs should be outlawed? Why? Besides the fact that "who are you to tell me what I can put in my own body?" ,

did you study the times when we had alcohol prohibition and before those times and after? Do you remember

(probably) the most famous mobster, Al Capone? Do you remember any others? Do you remember the first time you

see gangsters in American society? Furthermore, do you remember when you saw them decline mostly in influence?

The point is, prior to today, gangs had thier biggest impact in America while prohibition was in effect. The

declined (but still had influence in other illegal activities) when booze became legal. We kind of romanticize

Italian gangsters now- but the simple fact is we hate the blackwhitemexican gangsters who now dominate the

underground. And what keeps them in business? Mostly drugs. Sure, there are still loansharking and

prostitution to go around, but the biggest underground economy is drugs, and i'm of the opinion that we wouldn't

have to worry much about gangs if simply legalized drugs.

As for drinking and driving, who does it hurt? If I'm loaded and drive and get home without wrecking anyone,

who did i hurt? No one. maybe you can make a case for keeping drunks off the road (it is possible and I can

make the case, but I won't do it for you), but you to say the legal limit should be lowered and stricter

penalties should be levied needs support. I drink, and I know when I should and shouldn't drive- maybe

sometimes I'm "wrong," but still no one has suffered as a result of my choices. Moreover, when did we start

prosecuting people for not harming anyone, and when did it become acceptable? And who are you to say that

someone who has never drank before (being drunk and having a BAC of say, 0.06) is "just as dangerous" as someone

who has drunk way more and is tolerant of 0.06 and it doesn't affect them. No matter how much you want a a

black and white answer for that one, there isn't one.

And stem cell research being outlawed? Maybe you have a point. But what is it? No sex? No nothing? I'm a

Christian, but even I'm not so sure about stem cells. I mean, if I take some cells from a male, and some from a

female, and put them together in a cows egg to get the gestation process started simply to extract "stem cells"

before the fetus is X number of days old (and since its in a cow's egg, who can say if its human, because it

hasn't gone far enough in the cycle to tell), who's to say I'm wrong. I guess you have examples to prove me

wrong, but I'd like to see them still.

Sex should be semiregulated? What do you mean by that? Should we only allow certain people who meet certain

standards to reproduce? Do you mean that maybe we should keep sodomy between fags illegal? The nazis and

American's both tried confining sex to certain groups. Thankfully the Hitler came along and the American's saw

how wrong it was and helped win WW2, otherwise we might have laws like you sugguest. And like others mention,

but not in the same degree, who are you to come into people's bedrooms and tell them what kind of sex to have.

Even God is not that presumptuous. I happen to think "yeah, if we all lived by Christian values America and the

world would be a better place." But as soon as you start regulating what people can do to themselves, in that

manner and in itself, it gets messed up. God gave us freewill (and even if you don't beleive in God, or "a"

God, you still cannot deny that we have freewill. But given that we have freewill, and suppose you worship the

God of Abraham (like the 3 main religions do- they just differ in thier interpretation of HOW toworship Him) you

can't sugguest that homosexuality is more wrong than say, telling a lie, If you beleive how you appear to thru

your posts, then a fag is a sinner, as is someone who mouths off to his mom. A fag can be forgiven just the

same. If God can forgive him/her/them, why can't you? If God can forgive them, and you can't, that fine. I

don't expect you to be Godlike. Humans can't be, but how is it that if God doesn't care much that the state can

care when it harms no one unwillingly?


i'm not saying they can't talk about it, i'm saying they shouldn't parade there religion around. i'm a

firm believer in Freedom of Religion I believe you can worship what you want. I just don't believe special

religious rights should be granted to minority groups.


The point was that you said something akin to all arabs should be put in internment camps until the war with

terrorism is finished. You were wrong then, you are wrong now. If someone wants to parade thier religion

around, I applaud them for it. I hate it when they try and convert me, but God bless them for trying. Special

religious rights do not entail not having "the right to praction there religious beliefs outside of there house

or church." Normal religious rights give you the right to practice when and where you want to. Special rights

do not entail not being from "a Group of people have threaten our way of life there should be a trial period

when they arrive in our country to determine if there a threat and once determined not a threat let them live in

peace if determined they are a threat then they should be deported." In this case, you act like you mean

muslims. No matter who you mean, I dont care if you're talking aout jewish, hindu, buddhist, christian, or

agnostic peoples. You are wrong in any case you choose.

DN said:


IMO anyone that admits to being an extremist , and at the same time being okay with that, is missing something.

I have extreme views in some areas but I temper them with my common sense and tolerance for other's points of

view. Its either that or just be angry at the human race for not acknowledging my God status


I have no problem with people admitting extremism. In fact, my boss coinded the term "middle of the road

extremist." I love it.



You can't have ANY Costitutional rights without the Bill of rights, it's that simple.


You're wrong. You have every constitutional right without the BOR, the BOR just reaffirms those rights,

especially in the 9th and 10th amendments. Regardless of your religious beleifs, in the Us, government does not

grant us our rights, nor has it ever- God does.



I dont think the govna should be able to tell me what I can and cant consume.


a-men.

[substand]

Finally, ConsFront, I can deal with your grammar and spelling mistakes. I think we all can, and those of us who

can't are merely being semantic or are retarded ourselves. What I cant deal with is your lack of quotes. I

guess I _could_ deal with it, as I can somewhat tell what you are responding to. However, it would be much

easier and quicker (and in the future, the only way I will respond directly to what you are responding to (as I

hope everyone else will)) if you use the quote. You can put in (square_bracket_open)quote(square_bracket_close)

put someone else's words here(square_bracket_open)/quote(square_bracket_close) to quote something "officially"

please do

[DontBeAfraid]

So subs, you believe that our rights, as defined by your god and enumerated in the constitution, should extend beyond the US borders? Or was god playing favorites again?

[Defiant Noquisi]

I believe Blacks,Jews,Christians,Islams,Mexicans,whites,etc are equal Thats wonderful, thats downright terrific. Now, when EVERYONE ELSE in Amerikkka not only believes that but lives up to it with word and deed we can toss reverse racist laws like that out. Until that day comes, if ever, I will support those laws until I dont hear stupid crap like "Niggers should be shot" coming across my cb radio. When the white supremist/my religion is better than yours bs goes down they can take those laws with them.


No Porn shops No encourgment of sex thru sex and commercials and I think the legal age for sex should be raised to 21 not 18. No porn shops? I suppose we could go back to the days when it was openly sold in grocery stores. It would be a hell of a lot more convenient for me and a partner to pick up a trashy porn mag to pour over before getting down to business. My looking at porn is a pursuit of happiness, maybe if you enjoyed it for what it is, you wouldnt be wound so tight and could relax. There are alot of other things out there more demonizing and criminal than me enjoying porn.

Unless you also bump the age of adulthood to 21 you wont win there. Plus, you would wipe out a huge amount of military able bodied people by doing so. Again, unless you are fully prepared to spy on bedroom activity, youll never be able to enforce it AND you stand to completely alienate a vast majority of voters by doing so.


I don't think new laws need to be entact we should just make our current laws tougher.Why even do that? Why dont we start by actually enforcing the laws we do have? If just as much energy was put into more effective ways of preventing crime and empowering the people that most crime is committed against, we wouldnt need tougher laws. Maybe if cops were elevated in some way to lessen them falling into crooked and/or apathetic behaviour and people actually gave a damn about the jobs they do, they might actually care. A Cleveland example;

My landlord rented a unit out to some welfare broad with 2 babies who just happened to have a drug dealing boyfriend(that also wasnt supposed to be living there but he was). Of course, my landlord didnt know this until after all the cars started cruising by and stopping in front of that particular unit. Calling the cops didnt do anything since they would arrive hours after the fact.

How about this slap in the face? We witnessed a deal go down as a cruiser drove by with "Luietenant" marked on the car". Thats how bold these bastards had gotten.

Whats worse, my landlord could have her property confiscated because of drug activity. Sure, that law was passed because of landlords who wouldnt do anything but the law doesnt set aside liability for those that do! In essence, even though my landlord took a very active role in trying to bust drug activity in the neighborhood, she was still no better than the criminals themselves.

My landlord went to a neighborhood meeting in which two cops, (one a supervisor) attended. It was pitiful. An old lady (after calling the police numerous times) told the cops that if she had to chase one more punk off her property from attempting to break in that she was giving up the baseball bat and using her shotgun next. Shed been robbed twice, threatened once and got punched a few times on another occasion. This woman had been trying to protect herself and all this cop told her was what her possible prison sentance would be for murder. Thats great, they cant do anything about these punks unless they killed the old lady first.

For my landlord it was instant grief. After telling the cops the above mentioned drug activity, supplying them with a list of licence plates and witnesses(including mine) and even a time schedule of when particular cars showed up, the cop told her he couldnt do anything without evidence. WTF?? She asked him what her sentance might be if she engaged in illegal drug buying to get him the evidence.

Good thing my landlord isnt stupid. She next provided them with a list of every cop car, including car number and the above Leuitenant's car, when they drove by and what kind of activity was going on at the house when they drove by. She then followed that up with threatening the cops that the list goes to the local news and she better not lose her house in all of this. How ever so embarrasing.

Two days later, a strange van was in front of that house. Then 3 cops cars pulled up and drug detectives poured out of that van and it was like watching clowns come out of a clown car. There was enough drugs in the house for two felony arrests and a few misdemenor citations.

How low must one stoop in order to be protected by the law rather than become a victim to it?


Abortion is ending a Life, how can you say otherwise? Never did, read my post again.


Take a child off of welfare? Wouldn't it be the parents responsibility to use Birth control or condoms if they plan on having sex and can't afford a baby? Sure is! The best ones happen to be sold in porn shops too. Also, read my post again, I didnt say anything about taking a child off welfare.


how dare you suggest we end the lifes of innocent children because of degenerate parents(adults). I NEVER suggested that or anything like it. Pull your head out. I want to know how it is that politicians can be so disgusted by abortion yet they pay and supply arms to foriegn countries who then rape, torture and murder Indigenous women, wrongfully imprison, torture and murder Indigenous men and bash in the heads of Indigenous kids and babies? Dont you even try and tell me that NONE of those women were pregnant! How dare you defend that kind of action when you are so quick to say how evil it is here at home! How dare you suggest that the works of degenerate politicians is somehow less evil than someone involving themselves in abortion!


That was how many years ago? stop worrying about the past and see what you've got. Unfortunatly, what we still have is people who perpetuate the same bs through vicarious means and propagandizers such as yourself who support it. I dont worry about the past, I worry about people like you who think it happened so long ago that it means nothing now. I worry about people like you who think that because it isnt happening under your nose that it isnt happening at all. I worry about people like you who are so blind to the truth that you will go about life doing stupid things and hurting other people while prostelying that its for the good of all. I certainly worry about people like you who have much to learn yet go about as if you know how things should be.


I believe we're all equal and don't need special rights to proclaim superiority (or as libs call it equality). Why dont you pull your head out of the clouds and get some oxygen? You might believe we are all equal but until the vast majority of the world who doesnt believe like you changes their mind, your beliefs hold no weight. BTW, I know a whole lot of people who are not libs who use the word "equality". Youre pretty quick to draw an unloaded gun on liberals.


I'm not a Right-wing authoritarian. Infact nothing i've said has matched any fascism regime (past) You sure are quick to use the past to defend yourself while telling me to get rid of mine. Again, another example of a conservative doing what they accuse as liberal. You remind me of an ex-boyfreind who would do something and then deny doing it even though I was right there when he did it.

[Defiant Noquisi]

BTW subs, your last post with all the quotes in it, youve got me as making one of them and it wasnt me, it was CF I believe.


i'm not saying they can't talk about it, i'm saying they shouldn't parade there religion around. I cant believe how I missed this gem of ridiculous interpretation!

Okay, something I can agree with for the most part! Lets look into this a little more....oh and you non-religious folk Im not forgetting you, Im just being religious specific in this post. :D

Since I agree that religion by anyone shouldnt be paraded around, lets start by eliminating some holidays shall we?

Ash Wednesday ~ not a federal holiday but many people take this off to do whatever they do in preparation. It shouldnt even be mentioned on the calendar since it is religious and gets in the way of progress and capitolism.

St. Patricks Day ~ while not a federal holiday, many parades crop up all over the country to celebrate a guy who started as a slave and ended up sponsoring the genocide of an entire culture. There were no snakes in Ireland but there were many Druidic people. They cant even get all the green out of the river in Chicago anymore.

Palm Sunday, Passover, Good Friday and Easter ~ Yep, get rid of them, even on the calendar. The stores are full of candy, cards, gifts and what not right in front of my eyes, everywhere I look. No more Easter parades blocking up the roads and parade watchers littering.

Yom Kippur ~ Same with Jewish holidays, no more calendar mentions or news bits on television.

Columbus Day ~ A federal holiday touting the bravery of a lost, murdering rapist that started the American Holocaust and was the father of the slave trade from Africa when they ran out of Indians. He was, after all, a devoutly religious man and claimed that the Indigenous people needed to be brought under the control of the Spanish government as it is "God's will".

Thanksgiving ~ Ax it, a holiday that started as giving thanks to God for a good harvest. The earlier ones also included torturing and hanging Indians for entertainment. One of the earliest Thanksgivings occured right after the Pequot Massacre. How timely.

Hanukkah ~ No exceptions, Jewish holidays get the ax too. Sorry to Adam Sandler and Stan.

Christmas ~ The biggest religious event in the world along with Easter. Ax it, its religious significance cant be ignored even though retailers try very diligently to tell you that this is the perfect time to buy your loved one that new Lexus theyve always wanted.

Since we cant be making public anything religious, that means all tv programs of religious significance as well as televised church programs get the ax too.

Oh yes, lets not forget religiously themed stores such as christian bookstores since they are no better than their porn counterparts. :Bott:

[Conservative Front]

Amerikkka? nope I don't think so yes there are some supremacy groups but they have lost all there credit after the collapse of skinheads in 1992, they still linger around such groups as WCOTC,Aryan Nations,etc... but there existence and acceptions is unexcusable now and they merely have paper propaganda that mostly disgust people instead of influence's them.

No porn shops means no porn. and I fine example of this would be in L.A. how many people became infected with HIV working in the porn industry this year? in less then a month? Looks to me like porn might be harmful, fatal even. (yes thats extreme but you get my point).

You can't drink until you're 21 does that mean adulthood should be bumped up? no... didn't think so. So how can you justify saying that sex should be allowed at 18 but if thats bumped too 21 you're less of an adult? maybe you're solution to this would be legalization of everything for any age.

Ok, tougher more resilient police force and inforce our laws more precisely.
(i'm not advocate for the police force either)

i'm assuming you we're joking about the "best ones" being sold at porn shops so Ill let that go. The point I was trying to make on this is if you don't want to be pregnant you don't have to be. and if you are then put the child up for adoption theres alot of adults out there who can't have kids who would give a child a loving home.

So you're suggesting giving weapons to other nations cause all the defects you said? So we're suppose to predict 100% of the time what there going to do if it seems benefictial at the time why not? now abortion on the other hand is a homegrown threat remember Pro-Choice is no choice for someone especially those sick bastards who use abortion as birth control. Abortion is ending an Innocent life plain and simple. (and have you ever seen partial birth abortions that'd make you pro-life real quick).

What do I support? I never said discrimination wasn't happening because it is and I don't support it. and I respect life and people so I don't think I go around hurting people. I know I may be young, but I love to learn so I have vast knowledge about separatist groups and supremacy groups I know it's going on and I acknowledge it however, I don't believe it's lingering in our current political system.

You misunderstood me on this I was using the word equality as a metaphor for superiority. I competely agree with Equality and i believe all people(s) our created equal I don't however believe there needs to be special interest groups and special rights to show how "equal" they are because special rights aren't equality its superiority.

This is quite simple really, i'm not an authoritarian. You know only a broad spectrum about what I believe this post is merely the baselines of what I believe in it certainly isn't everything, so do use you're quote You are quit quick to draw an unloaded gun because You disagree with me on most if not all issues you assume i'm a fascist because I don't believe in Minority rights.

I never said they couldn't celebrate precious days to there religion. Infact I believe they should, I simply suggested everyday life not significant days.

and I don't believe a Christian book store is the same as a Porn shop quite a big differences there.

[Defiant Noquisi]

example of this would be in L.A. how many people became infected with HIV working in the porn industry this year? in less then a month? Looks to me like porn might be harmful, fatal even. (yes thats extreme but you get my point). Yes, blaming it on porn is extreme since HIV and its killer tendancies have been known for quite awhile now. There are too many factors that have contributed to the spread of HIV that have nothing to do with porn at all. Should we blame Reagan for ignoring the epidemic for over 5 years before publically discussing how bad it was? I wonder if the tribal villages of Uganda had access to porn?


You can't drink until you're 21 does that mean adulthood should be bumped up? no... didn't think so. So how can you justify saying that sex should be allowed at 18 but if thats bumped too 21 you're less of an adult? maybe you're solution to this would be legalization of everything for any age. Now youve twisted what I said, read it again. What I mean is that if you think people at 18 are not mature enough for sex, then why dont we bump up the minimum age for all of these things to 21? Since it is obvious that they are not mature enough for alcohol and sex then they arent mature enough to be considered adults either.


i'm assuming you we're joking about the "best ones" being sold at porn shops so Ill let that go. Actually I wasnt, try a few and find out for yourself, dont take my word for it. The ones in the drug stores SUCK except for the sheepskin ones but they dont have a proven effective rate against STD's last I knew. Besides, you can get neat ones like glow-in-the-dark and various textures that you cant get at the local store.


The point I was trying to make on this is if you don't want to be pregnant you don't have to be. and if you are then put the child up for adoption theres alot of adults out there who can't have kids who would give a child a loving home. What about all the loving parents out there that cant afford the adoption fees and could never afford the loan for them?


So you're suggesting giving weapons to other nations cause all the defects you said? Uh no, read it again.


Abortion is ending an Innocent life plain and simple. (and have you ever seen partial birth abortions that'd make you pro-life real quick). Yeah, so is genocide whether by the hands that commit it or the people who sponsor it. And since I have seen partials, I wouldnt have mentioned them being sickening. Your point?


I know it's going on and I acknowledge it however, I don't believe it's lingering in our current political system. Then you have missed a plethora of current information.


I don't however believe there needs to be special interest groups and special rights to show how "equal" they are because special rights aren't equality its superiority. So maybe if you convince dominant culture that its not superior, we can end this travesty. There wouldnt be special interest groups if the members didnt feel that another group wasnt subjugating them. Special interest groups go way beyond the scope of just race or religion.


so do use you're quote You are quit quick to draw an unloaded gun because You disagree with me on most if not all issues you assume i'm a fascist because I don't believe in Minority rights. Hey, you are the one posting those kinds of statements. Im just posting the comparisons for you to learn from. Its not my fault you cant see the forest instead of milled timber and since more people than just myself can make the same comparisons, its still not my fault you cant see the truth in the comparisons.


I never said they couldn't celebrate precious days to there religion. Infact I believe they should, I simply suggested everyday life not significant days. No, you said that religion shouldnt be paraded around. I simply showed you (jokingly) one way we could do that. No special interests and everyone equal right?


and I don't believe a Christian book store is the same as a Porn shop quite a big differences there. Not really, if people wernt so subjugated by religious ideology, looking at naked people wouldnt be the "evil" it is touted to be. People go to christian bookstores for uplifting spiritual aides. I go to porn stores for uplifting sexual aides. People go to religious stores to learn more about religion. I go to adult stores to learn more about sexual psychology.

[Marajadex]

Just FYI. Having the facts can be so much fun! Hope this site helps with that question of age of consent.

Legal Age of Consent
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm


Alabama 16
Alaska 16
Arizona 18
Arkansas 16
California 18
Colorado 15/17
Connecticut 16
D.C. 16
Delaware 16/18
Florida 16/18
Georgia 16
Hawaii 16
Idaho 16/18
Illinois 17
Indiana 16
Iowa 14/16
Kansas 16
Kentucky 16
Louisiana 17
Maine 16
Maryland 16
Massachusetts 16/18
Michigan 16
Minnesota 16
Mississippi 16 (laws passed June 1, 1998)
Missouri 14/17
Montana 16/18
Nebraska 17
Nevada 16
New Hampshire 16
New Jersey 16
New Mexico 17
New York 17
North Carolina 16
North Dakota 18
Ohio 16
Oklahoma 16
Oregon 18
Pennsylvania 16
Rhode Island 16
South Carolina 14/16-bill pending
South Dakota 16
Tennessee 18
Texas 17
Utah 16/18
Vermont 16
Virginia 18
Washington 16/18
West Virginia 16
Wisconsin 18
Wyoming 16 / 18?
Military 16

[DontBeAfraid]

How many people in YOUR line of work got hiv last year??? Ill tell you it was more than in the pron industry which was only 3. You know why? Pornstars have to be tested for std's EVERY month while people in ANY other profession just go about having sex oblivious to everything until they get sick, and by then it is usually to late.

[MacRasta]

DBA, over here every 2 weeks, no positive form, no job...

Mac

[VegasRonin]

Nevada is 16 years of age true but only with parental consent.

[substand]

So subs, you believe that our rights, as defined by your god and enumerated in the constitution, should extend beyond the US borders? Or was god playing favorites again?

I actually had meant to say our rights are natural rights, no matter if you believe in God or not. If you beleive in God, you probably think that God gave us our rights. If not, you cannot argue that man has no free will, as it is readily apparent that we do. Since we have free will, even with a gun to our head telling us to do opposite of what we "want," our natural state must be "free." We should do everything to maximize it then.

I realize I said almost the complete opposite when I said "in the Us, government does not grant us our rights, nor has it ever- God does." I left out a major bit which I've tried to explain above (but it still applies based on our "founding documents," which could be taken to say the same thing.

Maybe God was playing favorites, but if I had the means to change the world by myself, I'd extend freedom beyond (and within) our borders. I realize we're very free, but in comparing ourselves to our ideals, in my opinion, we could do a better job at maximizing freedom (and thats not to say we live under tyranny).

[Conservative Front]

I'm not blaming porn for HIV. and To tell you the truth If I were president I would spend more on finding a cure because I believe it to be a travesty and I wouldn't want to go through it and I certainly wouldn't want anyone to go through having HIV. Reagan didn't ignore aids. The gay community (not trying to sound discrimative here because its record in historic records) accused Reagan of not giving enough support to aids. no one else seemed to care at the time.

I think 18 years old is a good age for adulthood, but still at 18 most people are still kids plain and simple Yes I think they should be able to own there own house and all that good stuff. but Why not have sex at a higher age what harm would it do seriously now think about it.

Are glow-in-the dark condoms really important to life? or integrity? don't get me wrong here because my views on birth control might suprise you I believe the sales of condoms is extremely important but if the quality of a porn shops condoms is better then supermarket condoms well then I think that could be solved quite easily just sell the "betters" ones at the super market.

sucks for them. If they can't afford the adoption fees they should be thinking about a kid. either way abortion doesn't solve that problem because theres plenty of people who can afford to adopt.

I reread it. same response.

From what i've gathered from you're post you plain and simple anti-war. Well unfortuntally a complete peaceful world is not possible and never will be. So I don't really consider your comparsion abortion to genocide all that justified. well then again I don't really consider War Genocide.

ok, please explain to me who's racist in our political system. Sure we can say Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons are racist against white people but thats not P.C.

Ok, So say I felted besieged by Hinduism and I'm a Christian do you think Id receive special rights because I'm a christian no... The point I'm trying to make here is Special interest groups are what create the Race Card (etc) If we could all proclaim equality then there wouldn't need to be special interest groups nor would there need to be a dominate race,religion you get my point.
and I don't believe people are as extreme as groups like the ACLU make them out to be its indiviuals who blow it out of porption.

I think the word truth has two different meanings between me and you.

Yes, everone should be equal but siginifacnt religious days is a slightly different. To denouce religious and significant days would be in my mind discrimination and create and unequal barrier.

Yeah, maybe YOU go to porn shops to learn more about sexual psychology but not you're a minority on that issue.
---end respone to defiant---

Here's a little something thats rather sick, a Consenting age in colorado can be waived at 14 with parental consent. I.E. a 50 year old could sleep with a 14 year old as long as the parents are ok with it.

and if Porn must exist then thats a great 2 weeks sounds good too me.

[substand]

Ash Wednesday ~ not a federal holiday but many people take this off to do whatever they do in preparation. It shouldnt even be mentioned on the calendar since it is religious and gets in the way of progress and capitolism... Palm Sunday, Passover, Good Friday and Easter ~ Yep, get rid of them, even on the calendar. The stores are full of candy, cards, gifts and what not right in front of my eyes, everywhere I look. No more Easter parades blocking up the roads and parade watchers littering.



Private companies make calendars to sell and make profits. if they want to put satan's day on there I fully support their right to do so. If I want to take a day off work for a holiday, having a baby, or because i'm hung over who is anyone to tell me I can't? Sure, I can get fired for missing work all the time, but when companies stop catering to demands (especially small ones like Ash Wed.) of workers, they might have a hard time keeping them. In addition, its not as if you "only get Ash wed." off (assuming its a required day off) if you are Catholic or Christian in general. Everyone does when its required (and when you take it off, presumably your using a vacation day- not a special day you got for being Christian).



St. Patricks Day ~ while not a federal holiday, many parades crop up all over the country to celebrate a guy who started as a slave and ended up sponsoring the genocide of an entire culture. There were no snakes in Ireland but there were many Druidic people. They cant even get all the green out of the river in Chicago anymore.


We have the right to peacably assemble. we let homos have a parade in houston, and they don't even make up near the amount of people who celebrate st. patricks day.


... and now that i've read the rest of them, I think those 2 answers pretty much sums up my position on all the holidays.

[substand]

---side note ---
About all the HIV stuff, I think everyone would do good to read the other side of the AIDs equation, presented most prominently (i think) by Dr. Peter Duesberg. I've read his bigass book on the subject, and its very interesting. Don't just read the reports on the book, you should also read any of his replies to those reviews, and if you have the time / drive, read the book. google for his name and his site comes up first.
--- end side note ---




I think 18 years old is a good age for adulthood, but still at 18 most people are still kids plain and simple Yes I think they should be able to own there own house and all that good stuff. but Why not have sex at a higher age what harm would it do seriously now think about it.


it'd be kind of silly to be mature enough to own your own home and not be allowed to have sex or drink in it, don't you think? and most people who do have sex at 18 also go on to have sex at a higher age.



Are glow-in-the dark condoms really important to life? ...
if the quality of a porn shops condoms is better then supermarket condoms well then I think that could be solved quite easily just sell the "betters" ones at the super market.


Since its been medically proven that a good sex life can help lead to a longer natural life, i suppose if glow-in-the-dark condoms can lead you to a better sex life, one can certainly make a case that they're important to life. And thats discounting the question of "who are you or anyone else to tell me what is important to MY life?" If I place high value on kinky condoms, then they are important to my life. Since you are supposedly conservative, one might think you beleive in free markets. If no one wants porn shops or kinky stuff, no one else will sell it. Since no one is forcing you to do the pr0n thing, I wonder why you care so much about it? I think maybe that "moral" side of your conservatism is getting in the way of the "freedom" and/or "freemarket" side of it, which seems to happen a lot with people who call themselves conservative nowadays.

As far as the supermarket goes, they play to thier market. If thier people want certain condoms and there is enough demand for them, the supermarket will get them. Unfortunately, supermarkets don't specialize in sex, so people who do may not find what they are looking for in a condom. For a certain situation, suppose I like to use a condom that is "rare" in 2 instances that seriously affect pregnancy (and disease in one case, and i'm trying to prevent it in the other, which you seem to be fond of as an alternative to abortion in which I agree) for people who care about such issues: size/strength and spermicide. Then suppose I can't find the size I need (to keep it on if my weiner's small or keep it from busting if its too big), combined with spermicide in any of the supermarkets or drugstores near my house. Not even the sex-shop across the street has it. My choice is to go to another close by sex shop or travel across town to the one drug store i know for sure has it (because i used to live next to it).

The point is that super markets aren't providing for the niche market that my example illustrates, and thats a pretty common one (compared to ribbed, studded, extra-small, spermicidally lubricated, with "orgasm control" condoms). Try to find that in a supermarket.



I reread it. same response.


again, no idea what the hell you are talking about.



I think the word truth has two different meanings between me and you.


not sure who or what you are responding to, but I suppose that depends on what the definition of the word 'is' is.



Yeah, maybe YOU go to porn shops to learn more about sexual psychology but not you're a minority on that issue.


yes, and you've said that you don't neccesarily beleive in minorities rights. So if 50% + 1-vote voted to outlaw capitalism or religion or freedom of speech, thats ok with you? And while we're at it, since blacks are still a minority why don't we enslave them again? Oh, I forgot, you think all of us are created equal or are or should be equal, in the eyes of the law at least? Right. Everyone should be equal except for people who don't follow your "i gotta have a hole in the sheet (and be 21) to do it with my wife" code of sexual conduct.



and if Porn must exist then thats a great 2 weeks sounds good too me.


i often log off here drunk as hell and worry the next morning that my posts didn't make sense. then i read them again sober and most often they still make sense. You've officially (and presumably soberly) passed my record of posts that make no sense whatsoever with that line. Congratulations.

[Conservative Front]

Ok, well lets put it this way if you're married at 18 then fine you can pardon the law that says 21. I think my problem with sex is that people are having sex younger and younger these days which leads to more unwanted babies,abortions,neglected babys. So I believe if theres a law in place with a set standard on the age limit that would cut down on Unwanted babies,abortions,etc... Infact I believe my entire baseline for this resides with this problem.

I'm not telling people what should be important to there life so yeah I geuss if glow-in-the-dark condoms are that important to someone then they can fight to have them. I think morals and politics go hand in hand because people who question there own morals have a serious problem with black and white Morals being in politics. (or those who have no morals at all)

Perhaps, the answer to this is literally construct a Birth Control Market. This could solve much of the problem now we don't need porn shops because you can go to one market the specialize in Birth Control.

I was responing to Defiant with my "truth" comment.

I don't think Porn shops and the Race card really go hand in hand here. and I don't believe in Direct Democracy.

"if porn must exist 2 weeks sounds good"

I was referring to the post that said Porn Stars had to be tested ever two weeks or there out of the job.

[DontBeAfraid]

EVERY not EVER..... The legal age for marriage should be raised, not the legal age for sex. An 18 year old is TOO immature for that kind of commitment.

Now explain how porn is bad.

[substand]

So I believe if theres a law in place with a set standard on the age limit that would cut down on Unwanted

babies,abortions,etc... Infact I believe my entire baseline for this resides with this problem.


"Economists' unofficial estimates of the size of the American "underground economy" in recent years range from

no less than 5% to as much as 30% of official GDP!) " (from Dr. Johnson's website @ Auburn @

http://www.auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss/index.html?http://www.auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss/GNP.html)

So just like there is a law that outlaws prostitution and drugs to be "only" $550,000,000,000 (thats 550 billion

dollars) at a minimum and $3,300,000,000,000 (thats 3.3 trillion dollars) at a maximum, a law "discouraging"

underage sex would result in less unwanted babies, abortions, etc? We see how well the law works here. (see

http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn/gdplev.xls for current yearly and quarterly gDP (and past and future predictions))



I think morals and politics go hand in hand because people who question there own morals have a serious problem

with black and white Morals being in politics.


No, the people have a problem with morals being involved in politics. morals may be black and white, but

politics never is. Politics has to deal with greys. If you ignore them, you will be toast in political office.
You can make some issues black and white, but you have to compromise in politics. I think you'd be hardpressed to find me anyone who's held office and had to play the political game that has also delt with ONLY black and white issues. Again, please try. Morals and politics, contrary to going hand in hand, and more like complete opposites in real life.

maybe it only is people who question thier own morals that have a problem with morals being involved in politics. I prefer morals to be involved in politics, but i have no problem when they are not always used in that arena. and i hate to tell you, but if what you point to is truly the problem, then people who want morals=politics have the problem, because at least 90% of us can see middle ground. and at least the other 9.99 percent of us can see that there is a need for middle ground to compromise on something you dont care much about to get something you care a lot about. That leaves you and .01-1person(you) percent of the population who see no room for compromise ever, because everything is black and white and clear cut.



Perhaps, the answer to this is literally construct a Birth Control Market. This could solve much of the problem now we don't need porn shops because you can go to one market the specialize in Birth Control.


The Soviets (et al) have tried falsification of markets. it didn't work out very well over the long haul. even China and North Korea are dismantling "constructed markets" (albeit slowly)... not sure if Castro is doing the same, but we see his people swimming from Cuba to Florida quite often, so even if they are trying, we see artificial markets don't fare well. Being a conservative, I thought you might have learned this already. Even most mad libs think capitalism works better than communism (even if many of them would prefer a socialized capitalism).



I was responing to Defiant with my "truth" comment.


it still doesn't make sense.



I don't think Porn shops and the Race card really go hand in hand here. and I don't believe in Direct Democracy.


i'm not playing the race card. i merely wonder if you think that we are all equal (or deserve to be), why does that not apply to sexual perverts like myself?

[Defiant Noquisi]

Reagan didn't ignore aids. The gay community (not trying to sound discrimative here because its record in historic records) accused Reagan of not giving enough support to aids. no one else seemed to care at the time. Check your facts, and you dont even have to look to the gay community to find them. ALOT of people cared but not in ways you may think. For just as many who wanted to get the word out there were just as many who wanted to keep it hidden.

AIDS was first reported in the US in 1981(the same year Reagan was inaugurated) and it wasnt until 1985 that Reagan publically responded and only after people bitched at him for dragging his feet. He DID respond with financial aid for research starting in 1982, but most of the public never saw that (no internet, little news) and ignorantly still doesnt believe that he did.

What the public needed most was to hear that this Nations leader was active in supporting research for a cure. It was because of this silence that rumor mongers spread it around that he was homophobic(forgetting or not knowing that the White House decorator was a gay man whose partner stayed with him while at the White House). Because it was quiet on the National level, it was easier for local government, judges and even gay rights activists themselves to try and keep the truth of the growing epidemic hidden for as long as possible.

Once he started speaking publically, researchers started to get the financial and scientific support they had needed to more aggresively look for a cure and the people who had been conspiring to hide it were flushed out. By that time the reported cases were over 60,000 with half resulting in death. The reported case number may not seem that significant but the death rate certainly was cause for alarm. The speed in which it was spreading was alarming in and of itself. The CDC and FDA were resistant to talk about it as well. If Reagan had brought it out into the public, those entities would have been forced to act on it sooner.

Im not blaming Reagan for the spread of HIV, he wasnt the one out getting his carrot wet in dirty places. I do believe that if he had talked about it publically much sooner than he did, people would not have been so quick to cast all who became afflicted with HIV as "gay tainted" and more serious research would have begun sooner. He mentions HIV in a speech in 1985 but he didnt actively start talking about in until 1987.


Why not have sex at a higher age what harm would it do seriously now think about it. Why not get parents to interact and talk more openly and honestly with their kids instead of relying on generic "health" classes and learning by experimenting? Think about that. We dont need more laws, we need people to take them seriously and be responsible.


then I think that could be solved quite easily just sell the "betters" ones at the super market. Good, then we could sell videos, magazines and toys there too and I wont have to drive so far. No argument there!


sucks for them. If they can't afford the adoption fees they should be thinking about a kid. either way abortion doesn't solve that problem because theres plenty of people who can afford to adopt. Then it wouldnt seem so far fetched that under your opinion, a great family with little money CANT have a kid (unsure because of the lousy spelling and grammar, youll never get through college) but a less qualified but more financially secure family CAN? By your statement money somehow makes a family more loving and qualified? It doesnt work that way, mindless, abusive parents can come in all tax brackets. Ive seen it happen and kids have died because of it.


I reread it. same response. Then you have zero reading comprehension because I said nothing like you are implying.


From what i've gathered from you're post you plain and simple anti-war. Well unfortuntally a complete peaceful world is not possible and never will be. So I don't really consider your comparsion abortion to genocide all that justified. well then again I don't really consider War Genocide. Uh no, I am not anti-war but having served in the military didnt make me pro war either. I really dont see the need to continue further with this subject since you seem to purposely misread and twist my posts to further your agenda. I hope your college professors can teach you something but it appears it will be a waste of their time since you make it seem you know everything already.


ok, please explain to me who's racist in our political system. Sure we can say Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons are racist against white people but thats not P.C. Why does that need explaining? You already know those two are and they arent the only ones either. Try former MS Senator Trent Lott, and of couse Tom Daschle, cant leave him out. Even the Anti-Defemation League (who is VERY political) cried anti Semetic foul over "The Passion of the Christ" and it portraying Jews wanting Jesus killed. DUH!!! Mel went by the New Testament for that!


The point I'm trying to make here is Special interest groups are what create the Race Card (etc) If we could all proclaim equality then there wouldn't need to be special interest groups nor would there need to be a dominate race,religion you get my point. Do you twist things for spite or fun? For what reason would ANY special interest group have to create a "race card" unless a problem existed already that needed to be addressed? Do you not see that if some idiot didnt believe and adamantly act in some way that his race was superior to another, there would be no reason to create anything? You are confusing racial pride with racial ignorance. You can go ahead and claim that you are not but your postings prove otherwise.


I think the word truth has two different meanings between me and you. I agree. I see that truth can be found in many directions and you see truth in one, your own moral conservative viewpoint. What you fail to realize is that just because an opinion appears "liberal", it doesnt make it "bad" or unworthy of merit.


To denouce religious and significant days would be in my mind discrimination and create and unequal barrier. You obviously dont realize or are unwilling to admit that you make little sense with this statement considering what you have posted before. The barriers were created by inflicting and subjecting people to unbending religious beliefs and views. Doing so created the discrimination long before holidays were made over to support this activity.


Yeah, maybe YOU go to porn shops to learn more about sexual psychology but not you're a minority on that issue. Grammar, grammar, grammar!!! What are you trying to say here?

[Defiant Noquisi]

... and now that i've read the rest of them, I think those 2 answers pretty much sums up my position on all the holidays.

Yep, and this was mine from the start...


Since I agree that religion by anyone shouldnt be paraded around, lets start by eliminating some holidays shall we? The key word being "parade". I also said I couldnt believe how I missed this gem of ridiculous interpretation. It was a wide open chasm for me to make fun of.

[Defiant Noquisi]

---side note ---
About all the HIV stuff, I think everyone would do good to read the other side of the AIDs equation, presented most prominently (i think) by Dr. Peter Duesberg. I also suggest reading the book "And the Band Played On" by Randy Shilts, dont see the movie which had little base with its literary cousin, it was far from even resembling a clone of the book and was very innaccurate.


i often log off here drunk as hell and worry the next morning that my posts didn't make sense. then i read them again sober and most often they still make sense. You've officially (and presumably soberly) passed my record of posts that make no sense whatsoever with that line. Congratulations. Yes, I still try to make sense of it all but then again Im beginning to wonder if he purposely reads my posts backwards since it happens so often.

[Defiant Noquisi]

i merely wonder if you think that we are all equal (or deserve to be), why does that not apply to sexual perverts like myself? Good point, I never thought of that. I guess that now would depend on what "equal" means hmm?

Ill say it first....equal within reason! BAHAHAHAHA!!! :fencing: :Bott:

[Marajadex]

Equal??? Hmmmm... Anyone read Animal Farm? "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." I think that is how the quote goes.

[Conservative Front]

I don't think I ever claimed people we're too immature for sex or marriage like I said in my previous post I believe my distaste for young people having sex is for the babys sake infact there were two babies adandonded in trash cans over the weekend 1 is dead the other is in critical condition which more or less validates my point. Sure people can are "mature" enough for sex but not mature enough for the consequences of sex.

Porn is moral unsound, it promotes sex and encourages kids to view porn. It's distasteful and unmoral. and tell me why is porn good? what benefits does it truly have?

---end response to dontbeafriad---

I believe ineffective laws are too to other ineffective laws, we on a normal basis have more police force watching for speeders then watching for rapist drug users etc... I believe if we cut some of the nonsense laws and used are police force to accutally investigate crimes then our laws would be effective and not just raise the money bar.

I understand there has to be a middle ground and politics. I'm fully aware that not all issues can be black and white. however I believe some politics need to be more morally pressed then others, I realize that on some issues there must be a grey that it can't be middle ground or theres no way to succeed in a political office don't get me wrong Id love to see politics turn more black and white and conservatives rule over America but thats not realistic. and I think people who don't have morals or the majority that believe morals and politics should be separated someone who is completely morally unsound would be a disaster for the country (granite someone who rules purely based on morals wouldn't be all that great either but still better).

I phrased that wrong I think, Id base the birth control markets where people still had to pay for it, perhaps and add on to a supermarket or such Id no way give them out for free. If you can't afford condoms you can't afford a baby and you shouldn't be having sex.

That's a tough question to answer, However sexual pervasion could lead to sexual assault,rape,child moslestation,etc... (and I'm not accusing you doing any of that I'm just saying it could LEAD to that) then that would be become a threat to someones way of life and freedoms.

---end respone to stewey---

I did some research into this and the biggest outcry was with the gay community with aids in 1981-1987ish and no I'm not saying that it's an exclusive gay diseage or anything like that I'm just saying put yourself in that kind of situtation. Personal Id boost more research on it if I was president but given that time and the contraversie around it. Id be hard to move any kind of political platform around it and even harder to give tax payers money to its research.

Parents teachers etc... can teach about responable sex all they want but it's not really going to change much its more or less suggesting kids should have sex because it can be "safe" well theres no full proof plan here you can use condoms birth control etc... and thats not always going to stop reproduction.

.......

Kids die in poor familys too poor familys can also be abusive. If you can't afford a child then I don't care how much love you have it's not going to be raised well if it doesn't have proper care. ( and I graduated high school a year early and I've already passed all the prereqs for college and I can if I choose to take it have a free ride through the university of delaware)

I'm sure my college professors will attempt to make me left. So, do you support the war efforts then?

Libs Racist? that doesn't sound very P.C. to me. and the ADL won't get any support from me. There political but they don't have much power.

and how do I confuse Racial Pride with racial ignorances. Most racial pride ( I.E. Black Panthers,English Rose, and NSoC) proclaim just pride not racism yet just take a look at there panflits and that will sing a new tune. oh and how about when the Native Americans decide to court off a peace of land and not allow the people living there to leave because of barricades I don't see any interest in the people who can't get to work I see support of the native americans but not the Blacks,Whites,etc that peacefully live there. like I said equality and excellences before Diversity.

Most liberal views are without Merit. and the truth can't have grey It's with Wrong or Right.

I'm unclear what point you're trying to make with Holidays and Discrimination.

Remove the word "not" and there ya go.

---end respone to defiant---

[VegasRonin]

So you belong here. :smokin:

[substand]

here's where that grammar thing we've been bitching at you about comes in:



I don't think I ever claimed people we're too immature for sex or marriage like I said in my previous post I believe my distaste for young people having sex is for the babys sake infact there were two babies adandonded in trash cans over the weekend 1 is dead the other is in critical condition which more or less validates my point.


do you mean "I don't think I ever claimed people we're too immature for sex or marriage, like I said in my previous post. ..."

or do you mean "I don't think I ever claimed people we're too immature for sex or marriage. Like I said in my previous post, I believe my distaste for young people having sex is for the babys sake. Infact, there were two babies adandonded in trash cans over the weekend. 1 is dead, the other is in critical condition- which more or less validates my point."

You see how it can be taken two ways?



Sure people can are "mature" enough for sex but not mature enough for the consequences of sex.


whats the difference? i mean, sure, if there's grass in the field, play ball! is that "mature enough to have sex?" of course not, but its still silly to own your own house, not be allowed to have sex, have it anyway, and not be allowed to have a kid. The fact is, there may be no set age which is available to you to make a point. There has to be an age by law, and we should argue till we find it. But I certainly don't think it should be 21. 2 of my best friend's are the most outstanding people you'd ever meet, and they were born before thier mom and dad were 18. They have 2 younger brothers who were born after your cutoff date- one is an outstanding person, and the other needs some work. that throws your theory to hell. On the other hand, a kid my mom watches during the weekdays had a mom who was 14 at the time she had him. He turned out ok, but his mom wanted him back from the grandparents when she was 17 and figured out she could get more money from welfare if she took control of him. Its a shady issue, and black and white "21" cutoffs do not do it justice. But that doesn't mean there can't be a specific age, just that the one you sugguest certainly doesn't work.



Porn is moral unsound, it promotes sex and encourages kids to view porn. It's distasteful and unmoral. and tell me why is porn good? what benefits does it truly have?


Porn may be immoral or amoral. Its certainly not moral, and in either of the 3 views, I don't care. Porn can be good and beneficial (as you ask for) in that:

1) it may keep someone from having promiscuous sex by keeping him or her sexually pleased without intercourse with random individuals. thus, less unwanted babies (for abortion or adoption), less STD's, less sex without "love" or "marriage."
2) even despite the potential "morality" benefits, there's still the issue of freedom. Why do you or anyone else care what I do in the privacy of my own home or bedroom?
3) Its retarded to say that porn encourages kids to view porn. The only way kids know about it is if thier parents or other adults show/tell them about it. So maybe we should crack down on those who let kids view it (and thus be molded by it), instead of cracking down on porn itself. Your view of "porn corrupts kids" is tantamount to saying "guns kill people" which is tantamount to saying "if guns kill people, take away my keyboard because it causes me to spell wrong." My keyboard is not the reason I spell wrong, my gun is not the reason I fire it, and my porn is not the reason kids watch other people's porn.



I believe ineffective laws are too to other ineffective laws, we on a normal basis have more police force watching for speeders then watching for rapist drug users etc... I believe if we cut some of the nonsense laws and used are police force to accutally investigate crimes then our laws would be effective and not just raise the money bar.


good. except for the "drug users" part. I had a friend who was a dispatcher for HPD that told me even if there is a violent crime being committed across the street while he is supposed to be watching for "drugs" at a house, that officer cannot respond. I have no problem, in fact I applaud, the use of cops being used for violent crimes that HURT people over using them for non-violent crimes. This includes the waste of cops who waste thier wasted time going after pot smokers and prostitutes who hurt no one but themselves and others who choose to be hurt while rapists, theives, murderers, and terrorists are on the prowl.



someone who is completely morally unsound would be a disaster for the country


again, thats taken from a bunch of drivel that i couldn't exactly tell what you were saying, but this part i disagree with. I think Clinton was almost as "completely morally unsound" a person as one could find. I'm not sure if I'm taking that quote in context (because from your lack of grammer, i'm not sure what you mean) but I'd say for sure Clinton wasn't a disaster for the country, even though I beleive he was morally unsound.



I phrased that wrong I think, Id base the birth control markets where people still had to pay for it, perhaps and add on to a supermarket or such Id no way give them out for free. If you can't afford condoms you can't afford a baby and you shouldn't be having sex.


My point still stands. I'm not talking about giving them away for free. I'm not talking about the ability to afford condoms. I'm talking about the current market where supermarkets dont sell the condoms I want, but sex shops (and other non-supermarket shops in gheto neighborhoods) do sell the ones I want. I can surely afford them, but your proposed solution requires a false construction of markets, since the current markets do not provide them.



That's a tough question to answer, However sexual pervasion could lead to sexual assault,rape,child moslestation,etc... (and I'm not accusing you doing any of that I'm just saying it could LEAD to that) then that would be become a threat to someones way of life and freedoms.


again... grammar and spelling... i'm assuming you meant perversion, and not pervasion. Yes, sexual perversion could lead to many things. And I don't take offense, nor do I think you are accusing me of such things. However, gun ownership could lead to me murdering someone, free speech could lead me to inciting violence against someone. Owning stocks in a company could lead me to defraud someone. In the end, any sort of freedom carries with it responsibility. For the most part, We dont prosecute people in this country for crimes they "might" commit. God decry the day when no one has responsibility for thier actions and crimes are based on "what might happen" rather than what "did happen." Just because my neighbor has said she would tow my car parked legally on the street in front of her house (which would be Grand Theft Auto since she would have to claim it as hers and pay the towing company) does not mean I can jail her because she "might" do it. God forbid she does, but your argument is just ridiculous. Remember we are born with freedom. Remember further that we are "innocent until proven guilty." So how does sexual perversion and watching porn make you guilty? Even if you look a pictures of little kids that are digitally made, you may be sick as hell. But you've done nothing illegal. Why should the government protect pixels on a computer screen?



Kids die in poor familys too poor familys can also be abusive. If you can't afford a child then I don't care how much love you have it's not going to be raised well if it doesn't have proper care. ( and I graduated high school a year early and I've already passed all the prereqs for college and I can if I choose to take it have a free ride through the university of delaware)


yes, and kids die in rich families. if you can't afford a child, well hell, thats all the more reason to abort it, no? If its not going to be raised well, just get rid of it... get real. you may have graduated high school a year early- it certainly shows. I imagine you graduated a few years early from elementary school too. Don't feel too special. I graduated on time from one of the best school districts in the country in the #7 (out of 750) spot. And look at me- I couldve gone to CalTech, MIT, etc... I've made "nothing" of my life, I'm a drunken fool, and I can still run circles around your lameass sober arguments that I might agree with (only in the conclusions OFTEN, never the arguments). When you graduate from Harvard I'll still argue with you the same- I only hope you'll find a better argument then.


I'm sure my college professors will attempt to make me left. So, do you support the war efforts then?


Sure they will if you go to the right (or wrong) college. The war efforts? Makes no sense without the quotes. Please post them.


Most liberal views are without Merit. and the truth can't have grey It's with Wrong or Right.


most conservative views (especially the one's you espouse) are without merit as well. You're correct in that the truth is not grey- it is right or wrong. However, you fail to realize that most of what we are talking about (in general, what we talk about ever, specifically in this thread) is not "truth" or "fiction." It is politics, where most of life is neither truth or fiction, just interpretation. What we talk about will hopefully LEAD us to the truth, but it is never the truth on its own.

[substand]

oh you guys are joking right? this thread has become way more than "introduce yourself"... maybe it was meant to be there in the beginning, but given the response and tangents, 5 pages worth needs to be in politics. changing it on the first page (or after the first post) may have been justified... but now its taken a life on of its own, and its certainly political...

[MetalMilitia]

Everyone here has a different basis for which their political views come from.

I've recreated this thread in the hopes that everyone can share where and why they push for the politics they push for. I know it started as a CF "all about me" thread, but 5 pages of debate, views, and information is too much to be stuffed in the "Introduce yourself" forum. (sorry VR :D )

So post away, defend your favorite politican, and bash your most hated :D

Are you a LIEberal or a Consmerfative?

-MM- :crs:

[MacRasta]

You can't drink until you're 21 does that mean adulthood should be bumped up? no... didn't think so. So how can you justify saying that sex should be allowed at 18 but if thats bumped too 21 you're less of an adult? maybe you're solution to this would be legalization of everything for any age.


I think 18 years old is a good age for adulthood, but still at 18 most people are still kids plain and simple Yes I think they should be able to own there own house and all that good stuff. but Why not have sex at a higher age what harm would it do seriously now think about it.


Ok, well lets put it this way if you're married at 18 then fine you can pardon the law that says 21. I think my problem with sex is that people are having sex younger and younger these days which leads to more unwanted babies,abortions,neglected babys. So I believe if theres a law in place with a set standard on the age limit that would cut down on Unwanted babies,abortions,etc... Infact I believe my entire baseline for this resides with this problem.


I don't think I ever claimed people we're too immature for sex or marriage. Like I said in my previous post, I believe my distaste for young people having sex is for the babys sake. Infact, there were two babies adandonded in trash cans over the weekend. 1 is dead, the other is in critical condition- which more or less validates my point.

See him twist and bite??

Nasty man that is...him wants us to think that puttin' a higher limit will stop demm dreadfull thin's from hapnin', ya know man!

More info in schools 'bout potential dangers and consequences, and at a younger age will make them think twice about doing it safe or not. And suddenly, you have a problem less to worry about. Leave it at 18 (or even 17 for me, ya know) They'll do it anyway, so better to do it safe and better thought-out than they are doing now.

IF you don't get out, you WILL be a diktatorrr...

MacWellHung

[VegasRonin]

I've recreated this thread in the hopes that everyone can share where and why they push for the politics they push for. I know it started as a CF "all about me" thread, but 5 pages of debate, views, and information is too much to be stuffed in the "Introduce yourself" forum. (sorry VR ) Okay MM, now I gotta crush ya. Just kidding Bro. :Bott: Alrighty, I'll put my political cards on the table too. I'm a fiscal and social conservative. I hate Big Government. I hate poor me social programs. Stop making excuses and get a frickin job. I hate a welfare program that rewards sexually irresponsible women. The more kids, the more money. That's Bullshit. I think our leaders are all selfish liars that exploit 3rd world labor. I also believe that we have created a House of Cards , and our house is getting ready to collapse. At the same time, I enjoy my lifestyle, and a lot of things I dislike about our leaders, I must defend from time to time. I recognize the West is an Empire and I am very Hawkish when it comes to our Empire. Yeah I know, contradiction is a Bitch. I live in this world,I didn't make it, and live in it I will.

[Conservative Front]

I had to defend myself so yes this was about me and striked alot of debates most of then we're well thought out and I agree no personal attacks all politics.

---end response to MM---

I think... I can see what you mean by the two different means, but please clarify it a little bit.

Ok, Ok, I can bend on this perhaps 21 was a bit extreme you make good points I think perhaps the set age should be 18/18 no less If you can be an adult at 18 then you can have sex but I thats as far as i'm bending on this I can understand where 21 one would be extreme because it would hurt other laws so thats my gray 18 male 18 female can consent but no younger.

1) Good point, but in the same sense porn can still encourage sex if the person is a predator, take for example someone who despises women and watches bondage films, say for instantance he gets bored with watching women being tortured and trys some of the things he learned within all good there is still evil.

2) I think my unmoral principals with this stems with kids, porn is unethical for children to view. and I think the only preventive means is to end it. Parents can talk to children all they want but in a sense that will merely raise the curiosity value.

3) i'm suggesting the porn corrupts kids per say. but I was watching a news program this evening about commercial internet porn companys that do nothing to prevent kids from watching porn-o there are 349 Million pages of porn on them and only a mere 100 million have Age Verify on them. So yes in a sense the crackdown would have to come to porn itself make it so ever commercial porn website has to have Age Verify on it and tighten there security and make in inaccessible to kids or get rid of it completely.

Drug users are can become violent though, coke heads that don't get there fix will do just about anything no short of killing a person and prosituse can spread diseage and soliciting sex like that is wrong. now with the cops not being able to do anything if a violent crime is taking place is bullshit I don't agree with that the should be able too even if they have to abandon the "drug watch".

Clinton was a disaster to the country. He lied to use under oath is forgien policy was Blow Jobs over national security. He supported social welfare to a point of disgust and he raped people who made money. so Yes clinton was morally unsound and was a Disaster He in my eyes was one of the worst leaders this country ever had.

But if the demand was there They would provide them. and like I was saying there wouldn't be a false market i'm saying an Established Market that sold any kind of Condom you wanted.

Good point and Id agree. Id dig into my morals about this but I think i've played that card enough.

and i'm the one that gets accused of twisting words? and thats great you grad. on time I graduated a year early from one of the top ranking school districs in Colorado "Douglas County". and You still haven't ran circles around me yet I don't think disagreeing on something means running circles.

thats alot of area to cover Ill get them posted up when I have some more time.

My Merit and You're Merits are different then. Yes You're right on that, however most people tend to believe the truth is in you're own political affiliation.
--- end respone to substand---

Nice shot at my grammar, i'm glad to know you can't think of a reasonable argument with out taking a personal shot :)

---end respone to mac rasta---

[DontBeAfraid]

Seriously, work on your grammar or I will quit debating with you.

There is ZERO evidence to show that porn creates rapists. Just like there is ZERO evidence to show that gta causes more car-jackings.... Though gta vc did inspire me to buy my scooter.

I have scoured the internet buddy and I cant find these 249 million open porn sites.... So show me a list or admit the numbers are garbage.

End porn? That would be a huge blow to the american economy. Everyone agrees that kids shouldnt watch porn, thats why there are tons of safeguards in place to prevent them from doing so while at the same time making it availible for adults who wish to view it.

I find it hard to believe that you graduated early IF english is your first language.

[MacRasta]

Nice shot at my grammar, i'm glad to know you can't think of a reasonable argument with out taking a personal shot :)

---end respone to mac rasta---

Could you please show me WHERE I take a shot at your grammar,WHERE am I taking a personal shot? Protz.. I thought we were in politics here, and stufF about bashing your most hated politiCian. YOU are my most hated politician on this board! O-Kay? YOU are not to be reasoned with... Or do you have a READING problem of some sorts?
My Funky argument is that you're a very real danger to your society if you ever make in big time in politics, keeping those thoughts.

IF you're gonna make it big time (yeah, right!) , IF you survive your path you've chosen, you'll be a danger to everyone around you!

snotneus! (ran it thru multiple translation progs, but didn't find a translation. If you know someone who speaks and UNDERSTANDS Dutch, ask 'em) FYI mods, it's not an insult.

Anyone voting for YOU should be hung aswell!

MacU:eww:Me

[Defiant Noquisi]

and i'm the one that gets accused of twisting words? and thats great you grad. on time I graduated a year early from one of the top ranking school districs in Colorado "Douglas County". and You still haven't ran circles around me yet I don't think disagreeing on something means running circles.

Nice shot at my grammar, i'm glad to know you can't think of a reasonable argument with out taking a personal shot :) Let me clue you in on something youngster, try all you want to prove your point, thats fine. But using lousy grammar, open ended paragraphs that have people chasing all over the place to find the basis of your argument and mispelling words only proves how little you care about how your opinion is viewed. Dont even try to tell me you dont care, if you didnt you wouldnt respond to any posts.

If you formatted your statements better and used proper grammar, I would be more apt to take you seriously, even though I dont agree. However, you dont and therefore all I see is a snivelling little whiner that probably doesnt have a shoulder to cry on because youre too cold to get near.

No one is attacking you for stupidity or lack of maturity since you are very capable of proving those, your own intellect is what is in question. You claim in a few posts you graduated early but are seen as a liar because your grammar is worse than what my 13 yo can produce. Youve got alot of growing up to do and alot of wordly intelligence to aquire. Dont think you have it now because you dont and the manner in which you post proves it everytime.

[Conservative Front]

I was really saying it did create rapist etc... I was suggesting it could this is mostly based off my Moral Card though.

The source for the open porn sites is foxnews and CNN look through there sites its on there too I think Bill O'Reilly Has some stuff on his site as well.

A huge blow to the Economy? I don't think so, the porn industry only generations a few million per finical year. So in reality though If people didn't spend money on porn they would just spend it on something else so you're theory on a huge blow is crucially wrong.

well not everyone is a good writer I was a good enough writer to get by so, believe it or not I could careless.

---end respone to dontbeafraid---

Read you're post and figure it out for yourself.

So let me get this straight here. I'm a threat to society because I would lower taxes, make poor people work take care of themselves, I wouldn't have Social Programs, Id keep god in the pledge, Id support war over diplomacy (in some cases) Id be pro-life pro-business intolerant towards gays set the age for sex at an absolute minium of 18 with no bends and penalitys if you're caught. Id keep the 2nd Admendant and create a controlled Concealed Weapons Permit program Id get rid of the ACLU. Id get rid of affirmative action (Excellents before Diversity) programs that support racism (NAACP,ADL,WTOCT,ETC) would be eradicated. Porn o would be extremely limited and controlled Marriage would be between a Man and a Women A Free Market would mean a Free Market thats a start with my campaign.

So where in there am I a threat to society? and are you suggesting suicide to people because they a agree with a platform head you're own advice and be open minded.

---end respone to Mac Rasta---

Well, the truth is I realize my grammar is poor and I try my best on here however I don't really have time to go over everything i write because I post on here inbetween a small programming job that I do from home So I'm stringing together code and trying to respond all at the same time I don't intend to make it seem like I don't care I just don't have time to go over everything I write.

Like I said I know I'm not the best writer especially when I'm on here I just don't have enough time in to produce my best writer on here. a whiner? no like I said in my bio I love to debate and ill defend my positions to the bitter end.

If I could prove to you that I gradudated early I would I wouldn't know how to do that though. If you could have a conversation with me it would be completely different I'm a much better Speaker then writer and as for maturity? I don't believe I'm immature and I don't see you're claim for that too tell you the truth.

---end response to defiant--

[substand]

I've recreated this thread in the hopes that everyone can share where and why they push for the politics they push for. I know it started as a CF "all about me" thread, but 5 pages of debate, views, and information is too much to be stuffed in the "Introduce yourself" forum.


so this is where its gone!


Ok, Ok, I can bend on this perhaps 21 was a bit extreme you make good points I think perhaps the set age should be 18/18 no less If you can be an adult at 18 then you can have sex but I thats as far as i'm bending on this I can understand where 21 one would be extreme because it would hurt other laws so thats my gray 18 male 18 female can consent but no younger.

Well thats a start, but what happens when 2 14 year olds decide to have sex with each other? Do you prosecute them? If so, what do you prosecute them with and what would be the penalty?



1) Good point, but in the same sense porn can still encourage sex if the person is a predator, take for example someone who despises women and watches bondage films, say for instantance he gets bored with watching women being tortured and trys some of the things he learned within all good there is still evil.


if the person is a predator he/she is a predator and doesn't need any helping. Just like American History X was not racist and only if someone entered as a racist would he leave as such. If someone despises women and wants to hurt them, a bondage film is not going to change his mind from "i like women and i want to help them" to "i hate women and want to hurt them."



2) I think my unmoral principals with this stems with kids, porn is unethical for children to view. and I think the only preventive means is to end it. Parents can talk to children all they want but in a sense that will merely raise the curiosity value.


Not many people think kids should be allowed to view porn. But no porn shop is going to let an 8 year old walk in, much less buy porn (and if they do, they can and should be prosecuted)... The internet's a different story. If parents care enough they will be there when their children are online, and for when they are not there, they will get filtering software, and/or they will talk to them about it.



so ever commercial porn website has to have Age Verify on it and tighten there security and make in inaccessible to kids or get rid of it completely.


Every commercial porn site would require some form of payment, which would then be age verification enough (of course the kids can steal the credit cards). The free ones who are commercial in the sense that they provide some free stuff in the hope that you will pay for the good stuff can also be blocked by filtering software. Its not perfect, but neither will it be with age verification. Age verification will only cripple the porn industry in that adults will not be as apt to get verified because part of the draw is that on the internet, you are anonymous. Those adults who would then continue to go to porn sites with age verification would be giving out thier info to those sites- then they would be bombarded with mailings which thier children could then access even more easily than thru finding holes in the filtering software now available. Plus, the sites that currently escape the filtering software currently available are so obscure that they would likely evade detection even if your law was put into place.



Drug users are can become violent though, coke heads that don't get there fix will do just about anything no short of killing a person and prosituse can spread diseage and soliciting sex like that is wrong. now with the cops not being able to do anything if a violent crime is taking place is bullshit I don't agree with that the should be able too even if they have to abandon the "drug watch".


The point is that they still become violent even when its against the law. People who drink alcohol can also become violent. So can sober people. Since when did we start prosecuting people for crimes they might commit? Again, we do it many times. But if its ok to jail a cokehead because he MIGHT hurt someone, surely its ok to ban guns and jail gun owners because they MIGHT hurt someone. No?



Clinton was a disaster to the country. He lied to use under oath is forgien policy was Blow Jobs over national security. He supported social welfare to a point of disgust and he raped people who made money. so Yes clinton was morally unsound and was a Disaster He in my eyes was one of the worst leaders this country ever had.


I'm certainly not a big fan of clinton. but I'm not one of those "he only bombed iraq and afghanistan because of monica" peopel either. And don't forget he also said and signed the bill that declared "the era of big government is over." He also bombed iraq due to its attempted assassination of Bush 41, among other things that you might consider good.



But if the demand was there They would provide them. and like I was saying there wouldn't be a false market i'm saying an Established Market that sold any kind of Condom you wanted.


the demand is there, and they are sold. the demand isn't there for supermarkets, because if it was, they would sell them, because they want to make money. to artifically establish a market like you sugguest is communism in its purest realized form, no matter how you want to pitch it. again, there is a market for it, just not in supermarkets. Just as there is a market for "heinz baked beans" from england which you rarely find in American supermarkets (and if you do, you'll need to look in the international section and not the bean section). Just as there is a market for baseball bats, but you will rarely find them in supermarkets. If there was already a market in supermarkets for specialty condoms, we wouldn't be having this conversation.



Good point and Id agree. Id dig into my morals about this but I think i've played that card enough.


Again, not sure what this is referring to... but feel free to play the moral card.



and i'm the one that gets accused of twisting words? and thats great you grad. on time I graduated a year early from one of the top ranking school districs in Colorado "Douglas County". and You still haven't ran circles around me yet I don't think disagreeing on something means running circles.


Why thank you. I think my point was well taken, even if it was a cheap shot. I don't really mean to fault you on your grammar, because a lot of the time I can still understand what you're saying. However, I was hoping that you'd take it with a grain of salt and to the heart that you should QUOTE, because I can rarely tell what you are responding to with random sentances and no quotes. I suspect many people here feel that way.

[substand]

I have scoured the internet buddy and I cant find these 249 million open porn sites.... So show me a list or admit the numbers are garbage.

I have too, and I can tell you I think not only have I found 249 million open porn sites, I think also that I've been to them =). Actually, I think he probably meant pages, not sites. I'd list them for you, but it'd take me too long to visit them again- plus I'm not sure I've got the HD space =).



I was really saying it did create rapist etc... I was suggesting it could this is mostly based off my Moral Card though.


It could. I could wreck in my car tommorow, or I could drown in a pool, or I could stab or shoot someone. Again, its not the harm (normally) that could come from the act of viewing or using something that we should prosecute. Only the crime itself.



huge blow to the Economy? I don't think so, the porn industry only generations a few million per finical year. So in reality though If people didn't spend money on porn they would just spend it on something else so you're theory on a huge blow is crucially wrong.


regardless of if it is a huge blow, a tiny blow, or just blows, the fact is that without a market it would not exist. So maybe you should concentrate on trying to convince people not to view porn instead of trying to make a law against it. And BTW, from wired.com news, porn made a "US$5.175 billion contribution to the state's economy last year. The figure, which represents sales and rentals of adult entertainment, got a significant boost from Internet sales of $875 million." That's in California ALONE. So we see its not only a few million.



So let me get this straight here. I'm a threat to society because I would lower taxes, make poor people work take care of themselves, I wouldn't have Social Programs, Id keep god in the pledge, Id support war over diplomacy (in some cases) Id be pro-life pro-business intolerant towards gays set the age for sex at an absolute minium of 18 with no bends and penalitys if you're caught. Id keep the 2nd Admendant and create a controlled Concealed Weapons Permit program Id get rid of the ACLU. Id get rid of affirmative action (Excellents before Diversity) programs that support racism (NAACP,ADL,WTOCT,ETC) would be eradicated. Porn o would be extremely limited and controlled Marriage would be between a Man and a Women A Free Market would mean a Free Market thats a start with my campaign.

So where in there am I a threat to society?


Lower taxes are not bad. Poor people working is good assuming they can find work and make a living off it. Social programs gone + the Pledge = can be good as far as I'm concerned.

War over dimplomacy (in some cases) ? In what cases? When diplomacy has failed, fine. But then its just "politics carried on by other means." Pro life? fine. Pro business? At the expense of the worker? What happens if you are too pro business so that no one wants to work? Or suppose we become virtual slaves as we were not even 200 years ago when the government used the military to force us to work even if we didn't want to? Is that ok? Assuming you're not that far pro-business, how far are you? Because I don't think too many people would describe themselves as "anti-business."

the sex thing we've discussed, but what penalties would you enforce (to ask again for good measure)?

2nd amendment is fine, but whats the "controlled concealed weapons permit program" you speak of?

So how are you a threat to society? Oh let me count the ways.

Getting rid of the ACLU? They may be lefties, but in a lot of cases they are good lefties. Fighting for Gitmo tourists' rights to an attorney? Good thing as far as I'm concerned. They may mostly be "enemy combantants" and "terrorists" but with the government's ability to just declare that status, you better be hoping you'd have an attorney. Fighting for Rush Limbaugh's right to keep his medical records sealed from a fishing expedition even though they tend to be lefties and he's a righty, to me is a good thing. Not to mention freedom of thought, conscious, speech, etc. There you are definately a threat to society.

Getting rid of affirmative action is one thing, but getting rid of the naacp, adl, wtoct (even the kkk if you want to) is a bad thing. threat to society? certainly- we do have the right to peacably assemble specifically spelled out for people who think we have nothing more than what's granted in the constitution.

porno extremely limited? statue of david as well? Shall we censor the private parts portrayed in the Sistine Chapel? Perhaps big black blocks would do the painting well. Should we implement thought control to get filthy nudity out of our minds? Getting rid of porn is a threat to society. You are creating more of a slippery slope than KY on Mt Everest could ever hope to create. And you speak nothing of gratuitous voilence. Surely 2 adults having and portraying consensual sex is preferable to images of people killing each other for no reason, right?

Marriage used to be by definition between a man and a women. perhaps if we had not used the state (as you propose) to define marriage, we would not be redefining it. I see no reason why 2 men or 2 women should not be allowed to live together and prosper. And perhaps we have bigger things to worry about that whether we should call it "marriage" or "domestic partnership" or whatever. And if you're worried about more than what to call it, perhaps we should ask why is it our place to determine what 2 consenting adults want to do in thier spare time? Even if we want to worry about it, maybe we should think "what can we do about it?" Of course, nothing can be done about it short of putting cameras in people's bedrooms (would that be making government pornography? God forbid we allow porno, much less force the taxpayers to pay for it!) and/or mind control.

Intolerance for homos? Why? How do they harm you? Again, see above.

You are in favor of a free market? By its very nature, the market you describe would not be free- limiting porno, getting rid of aclu, naacp, etc (which are parts of a market). Even a controlled concealed weapon's permit is not part of a free market. So are you pro-business as long as you approve of that business? From what you describe, you are not for a free market, nor anything resembling one.

[Defiant Noquisi]

WOW subs! That response is phenominal! :thumbs:

[DontBeAfraid]

These millions of sites are not really open, I know they are out there; but they are hardly open to children...... And if im not mistaken the porn industry moves something like 400 billion dollars a year, if I remember correctly. And this is money spent mostly on impulse, So lots of it would stagnate if there was no porn..... I mean I dont think that I would spend anymore money on checkout stand items if I didnt spend it on pron.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I can tell you I think not only have I found 249 million open porn sites, I think also that I've been to them =).<snip> I'd list them for you, but it'd take me too long to visit them again- plus I'm not sure I've got the HD space =). Okay, MM found that there are only 153 million sites for "porn" so you guys are way off. LOL Start emailing them subs, I want to peruse them so I can judge accuracy, artistic merit and entertainment value. :grin

[DontBeAfraid]

judge accuarcy

You're gonna need the blooper reals to judge that.

[MacRasta]

So let me get this straight here. I'm a threat to society because I would lower taxes, make poor people work take care of themselves, I wouldn't have Social Programs, Id keep god in the pledge, Id support war over diplomacy (in some cases) Id be pro-life pro-business intolerant towards gays set the age for sex at an absolute minium of 18 with no bends and penalitys if you're caught. Id keep the 2nd Admendant and create a controlled Concealed Weapons Permit program Id get rid of the ACLU. Id get rid of affirmative action (Excellents before Diversity) programs that support racism (NAACP,ADL,WTOCT,ETC) would be eradicated. Porn o would be extremely limited and controlled Marriage would be between a Man and a Women A Free Market would mean a Free Market thats a start with my campaign.

So where in there am I a threat to society? and are you suggesting suicide to people because they a agree with a platform head you're own advice and be open minded.

---end respone to Mac Rasta---

Where would I start?


Read you're post and figure it out for yourself.

READ you are post and figure it out for yourself?
That's gonna be a hard one to figure out...
(Yeah, I'm giving you a reason to use your "you're bitchin' me" political defense)

YOU are not open minded, YOU are not to be reasoned with, THAT is the truth. I respect your feelings, but you disgust me.

YOUr political person IS a threat to humanity, but you're just too much of a youngster to really realize what you're typing. BTW thanks on the 'youngster', DN, pretty close to 'snotneus'.

Substand makes a beautiful sum of my approx. feelings :jap: A really great post!

What did I tell you before? Get off your butt and do somptin' 'bout it or suffer the consequences! :guill:

And YES, those who agree with YOUR political platform ALL THE WAY, SHOULD BE HUNG! Show that to your :Bott:hole friends!

And mods, do with my post what you want, but this is my response to a virtual --to be-- dictator.... Yeah, CF, you scare me, and it takes a lot to scare this monkeybrain!

Mac

BTW, I should have ignored you like I promised you before, but hey, ..... couldn't resist your bs

[Conservative Front]

Like I said this is almost entirely based off my Moral Card. If hypothetical I was elected to a position of power I would try and make porn more regulated and make sure kids would not have access to it under and circumstance (kind of like Under-age drinking) and I realize getting rid of porn is unrealistic mostly because even if you got rid of it In america theres still forgein websites that could produce it and market it and I accutally support Clintons bill that enacted Internet Privacy but not to the extreme degree he made it out too be. Mostly because regulation of the internet is completely unrealistic and couldn't be implemented.

Id wouldn't bar it completely Id just regulate it more I don't really have much of a problem with adults viewing porn-o again its my moral card that i'm playing here but I think its unethical to allow kids to view porn they shouldn't be submitted to it at young ages.

By war over diplomacy I mean if we where attacked no talking we have all the right to march in and take control I think diplomacy would work in some cases if there hasn't been an attack yet but one is in the works however there could still be cases were we can attack pre-emtively.

By Pro-Business I mean, People have the privilege to work and if they want to make it through life then they can choose to succeed I wouldn't enforce any kind of "forced" labor. Pro-Business means Large Corporations would be promoted as well as Small Business Large Corps. don't have too much power like farleftist would tell you Large Corps. create jobs,money, and economic prosperity. but I would never force people to work its there choice if they want to succeed.

The sex thing I would enforce an initally citation (3 citiations max with increments of 50 I.E. 1) 50 2) 100 3) 150 depending on the offense it could be possible for increments of 100-1,000) then probation then if all else fails jail if nessecary.

Controlled Concealed Weapons permit, I would make it possible for someone to be able to Carry a Firearm on them (concealed) as long as they took a gun safety course,and had no felonys against also they would have to register with the local police department that they have the permit.

The problem with the ACLU is they almost always fight for the wrong cause I don't think the terrorist at GITMO have the right to appeal there status there POW's. I don't recall Nick Berg or Paul Johnson having the right to appeal. and as far as Rush's medical records that should be against the law anyway to look through them the ACLU shouldn't have to fight for them. Ill admit when the ACLU first came around they had alot of good ideas but now they just impletment them in all the wrong ways.

Affirmative Action may have been nessaciry several years ago but now I don't think the race card has much too do with it its unfair for someone who Owns and Operates there own business to hire a certian amount of Blacks because the government said they have to Thats Communism when the government intervens with a Private Enterprise. like I said though Screw Diversity Celebrate Excellences.

Ill Redefine this Porn should be extreme limited to prevent kids from looking at it. Thats what I mean by that I don't think kids should be submitted to it.

You misread this I never said they couldn't live together i'm just saying If We Remove "one man, one woman" from the definition of marriage, doesn't that open the door to calling any relationship a marriage? It's not about intolerance or being judgmental, its about the truth.

By intolerant I mean No Special Rights whatsoever.

Limiting porn-Make sure kids have no access too it. NAACP isn't a business thats lucrative. A Weapons permit has NOTHING to do with a business. What I mean by a free market is If someone Buys there own Business with no government grants etc... Then the Government has NO RIGHT to tell them how to run there business (I.E. Handy Cap door operators,no smoking,etc) If they don't want to install or implement the above then they shouldn't have to The government Cannot tell someone how to operate there business no matter what. what you accused me off is ludacris NAACP isn't a business, ACLU isn't a business, Weapons Permits aren't a business.
---end response to Substand---


Type in "Free Disney Pix" in a search engine and tell me how many hits you get of porn and then tell me how many are free.

---end response to dontbeafraid---

Where's you're own mind Mac Rasta? You think people should be hung for agreeing with an Idea? isn't that what I've been accused of whats that word Authoritarian?

---end response to Mac Rasta---

[DontBeAfraid]

So if someone wants to open up, say, a porn shop the government should have no right to tell them to make handicap access points or who they should be allowed to sell to? Dont talk about morals you thief. What happened to nick berg or paul johnson is irrelevent to how WE should act, WE are NOT the terrorists, we hold ourselves to BETTER standards than the terrorists do, if you want to use THEIR barbaric acts to justify some evil deeds of our own then WE ARE NO BETTER THAN THEM. Moral card....... what a joke.

[stewey]

Democrats and Republicans are both crooks. For every crooked Republican, there is a crooked Democrat. I lean more towards conservatism for two reasons:

1. For some reason like 99% of Computer Science majors are conservative (from what I have seen). I fall into that majority.
2. Ted Kennedy is a drunk murderer. That and Al Gore pissed me off with his "I invented the internet" comment.

EDIT: If it were up to me, every person who gets captured fighting for Taliban or Al Queda gets put on trial, if found guilty, they get death penalty. Then again it isn't up to me so it doesn't matter :D

[DontBeAfraid]

Your reasons for leaning to conservative make a very weak base for your platform. I am quite certain its just something you picked up from your parents or possibly your religion or maybe you only get conservative radio and you are just a spineless yes man. You do spout the conservative bumper stickers even in the face of overwhelming logic and evidence which proves said bumper stickers wrong. And computer science geeks are split down the middle, just like every other middle class job.

[stewey]

Computer science is one of the best paying majors there is. Up there with medical school after malpractice insurance. Far from a "middle class" job, at least around here. The place I plan to work at after graduation pays starting wage of what both of my parents earn right now combined. My parents make pretty good money, too.

here is one source: http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2004/may/wk1/art03.htm

Anyways, I was half joking. The funny thing is, for every fact and bit of evidence to support one idea, there is another fact and evidence to rebute it. Just depends on the way you read it and your source.

[MacRasta]

Where's you're own mind Mac Rasta? You think people should be hung for agreeing with an Idea?

Yes I do, and you do too! I'm sure you'd hang everyone who agrees with Bin Laden's Ideas. Because if we don't hang you and your voters, we have another Bin Laden & Co on our hands.

Le BigMac

[stewey]

Well if the idea is to kill innocent people, then yeah, I would approve killing anyone who agrees with it. No this isn't a continuous loop, because if you like killing innocent people, you are not innocent.

[MacRasta]

There'll be another great country to be found in the 3rd world-listings.

You are the worst kind of politician...darling! I think that in your country you're part of a minority group yourself.

Mac

[substand]

By war over diplomacy I mean if we where attacked no talking we have all the right to march in and take control I think diplomacy would work in some cases if there hasn't been an attack yet but one is in the works however there could still be cases were we can attack pre-emtively.


Thats good, but a lot of wars we've fought (we=US) were pre-emptive in that we weren't attacked first. The current Iraq war could go either way, in my opinion, depending on which side you subscribe to. I myself cringed when Bush called and justified this war as "preemptive" action, because I subscribe to the thought that it was not preemptive. However, I don't think that its "not preemptive" in that we were attacked on 9/11, but for other reasons having to do with Saddam's unwillingness to fulfill his obligations as a result of ending hostilities in the 1st Gulf War (not the one in the 80's between iraq and iran). Other than the fact that Iraq had spoken with al Qaeda and has ties with other terrorists, there is absolutely no shred of evidence that directly links Iraq to the 9/11 attacks. Until we hear otherwise, I'm to remain in that camp, because I'm not one to directly indict for guilt by association in particular events. However, Iraq's status as a terror supporting nation is well known, and rather than basing your support for the war on the faulty (meaning unproven and wholly unsubstantiated currently) premise that Iraq helped support the 9/11 attacks, you should realize that the War on Terror is not a war against al qaeda only. It is a war on terrorism and terror supporting states, no matter if they are al qaeda or anyone else.

Saddam may not have condemned the attacks, but that alone is not enough to say that he conspired in making them. Even if he condoned the attacks, it is not enough. One would expect him to. To say that because of his condoning/lack of condemnation makes him and his regime guilty of those attacks in particular is almost the equivalent of presuming that I took part in a terrorist plot to destroy france because I rejoiced at thier soccer team losing in the Euro cup.

(sorry, a lot of that is directed at your other posts in other threads, but implied in your current post)



By Pro-Business I mean, People have the privilege to work and if they want to make it through life then they can choose to succeed I wouldn't enforce any kind of "forced" labor. Pro-Business means Large Corporations would be promoted as well as Small Business Large Corps. don't have too much power like farleftist would tell you Large Corps. create jobs,money, and economic prosperity. but I would never force people to work its there choice if they want to succeed.


Now I agree with letting big and small businesses alike prosper, but I want to ask if you would use government to promote business? And I'm glad you wouldn't use government to force people to work.



The sex thing I would enforce an initally citation (3 citiations max with increments of 50 I.E. 1) 50 2) 100 3) 150 depending on the offense it could be possible for increments of 100-1,000) then probation then if all else fails jail if nessecary.


Well, even though I disagree with your penalties on minors having sex (since they would fall upon the parents and not the kids), I am glad you cleared that up. Before you had sounded like you would jail or kill them, but that is reasonable insofar as taking our current unjust laws for similar non-offenses into account. Now I don't beleive that 10 year olds should be having sex with each other. But to fine them or jail them for it might be retarded. IMO, if really young kids are having sex with each other, it is the parents fault and you will likely find some sort of abuse there to prosecute them on, because most 10 yr olds who have grown up in a decent and loving (loving not like NAMBLA does) household will not be having or even thinking about sex.



Controlled Concealed Weapons permit, I would make it possible for someone to be able to Carry a Firearm on them (concealed) as long as they took a gun safety course,and had no felonys against also they would have to register with the local police department that they have the permit.


as far as I know, thats more strict than most current gun laws. I myself wouldn't require such actions to own a concealable weapon, but thats mostly just rightwing extremist me.



The problem with the ACLU is they almost always fight for the wrong cause I don't think the terrorist at GITMO have the right to appeal there status there POW's. I don't recall Nick Berg or Paul Johnson having the right to appeal. and as far as Rush's medical records that should be against the law anyway to look through them the ACLU shouldn't have to fight for them. Ill admit when the ACLU first came around they had alot of good ideas but now they just impletment them in all the wrong ways.


The problem with you is that you assume you know what the right and wrong causes are. Now, since I would agree with you on a lot of aspects based on what I hear from you, you wouldn't think we'd disagree on this one (because I also think the ACLU takes it too far in many cases). But the difference is that I don't assume I know the right or wrong cause. Sure, I fight out my point to the end in hopes of convincing someone my way is correct or having them convince me I'm wrong so I can amend my position. But I would never outlaw someone who fought for the opposite cause as I beleive in, because I am not God, therefore I cannot know the absolute correct way.

Misters Berg, Johnson, and Il, to be sure, were innocents beheaded by outlaw extremist pooheads... And? The rest of the "west" has much higher tax rate than do we, and they "take better care" of thier poor. Many liberals beleive that we're bad for not having as much of a social welfare net as the rest of the west. They often call us "behind" because of it. Well I always prefer to compare OURselves to OUR ideals and what WE should be (even if we are not completely there). Just because other westerners "do it", doesn't mean we should. And I'll side with liberals on this one, because (at the least) I haven't heard much condemnation from mainstream conservatives (Glenn Beck excluded). Just because terrorists do it, doesn't mean we should. In my opinion, DBA put it better than anyone could when he said "what happened to nick berg or paul johnson is irrelevent to how WE should act, WE are NOT the terrorists, we hold ourselves to BETTER standards than the terrorists do, if you want to use THEIR barbaric acts to justify some evil deeds of our own then WE ARE NO BETTER THAN THEM. Moral card....... what a joke."

I know I told you to go ahead an talk about Morals and use the Moral card, but the way you used it is inexcusable. If you want to talk about black and white morals of letting children (or even adults) watch porn or not, (or gays or anything else that falls under morals)- that's one thing. But to call it "moral" to regulate porn (which it is in my opinion) and then do the "liberal" theory of "moral relativity" in justification for our abuse of prisoners is reprehensible.

Many people who subscribe to moral relativity will tell you "the middle east will never make it in democracy, because of thier culture." Many will tell you that "its improper for us to judge the islamists and how they run thier culture (ie treat women like chattle, kill the daughter whose brothers raped her, etc) because thier culture is equivalent to ours, and who is to say ours is better?" I thought that most conservatives didn't subscribe to this theory, but after the scandal at abu graib and your post, I was proven wrong. Very few conservatives applauded or chided it.. but most made excuses without condemning it. After your post, it seems to me that you are a moral relativist.

I'm sure you were angry, as was I (and probably everyone), at the beheading of people in Iraq. However, I was just as angry at some of OUR "abuses" (i use quotes because some of what we did is not abuse IMO), if not more so because I hold us to a higher standard. But to use the islamists' beheading of people as an excuse to deny rights to people as you do, that is just as morally reprehensible- and you are on the verge of losing your Moral card.

As for "the terrorist[s] at GITMO [not having] the right to appeal [because their] status there [is] POW..." - that is precisely the problem. The government, as it stands now, can just declare someone a POW and deny any normal rights- even to American citizens, as evidenced by Johnny Walker Lindh (et al). So extreme leftists could come in, declare you an enemy combatant to thier liberal regime, and then you have no right to attorney for the "crimes" of which you are accused (which could be as simple as "being conservative"). All it takes is a declaration- no judge, no proof, no jury. This is why I support the ACLU's attempts to gain the right to counsel for Gitmo prisoners. There is not yet a case in which a prisoner is not a POW or no "proof" of terrorism- but neither have any american citizens been given the right to counsel (and nor has there been any legal proof of thier "enemy combatant" status for that matter)- thier citizenship has been revoked based on the declaration of the government. They may have been enemies of the state, but I would not grant the state the right to declare it so- surely they should have to prove it to take away your rights, if we allow them to take them away in the first place. I would not hang you and your brethren like MacRasta, but neither will I accept your moral equivalence between people of the US and Islamist Terrorists... thats just wrong.

[substand]

Affirmative Action may have been nessaciry several years ago but now I don't think the race card has much too do with it its unfair for someone who Owns and Operates there own business to hire a certian amount of Blacks because the government said they have to Thats Communism when the government intervens with a Private Enterprise. like I said though Screw Diversity Celebrate Excellences.


I don't know if its quite communism to allow affirmative action, but it certainly interferes with markets. However, you should be happy to know that affirmative action is not required of private companies (nor has it been for a long time), so you are safe there.



By intolerant I mean No Special Rights whatsoever.


Thats good, I don't beleive in giving "them" special rights either. But what do you mean by special rights? You seem to think "marriage" is among them. Which brings me back to the question: "who cares what its called?" Just as we can ignore your misspelling and grammar mistakes and understand what you mean, why can't homos be "married." Sure, they may be just "civilly united," but we all know it means the same thing as state-defined marriage. And if you mean "no special rights" by "intolerance," i sugguest you change your word. Because "tolerance" does not mean giving "special rights." However, "intolerance," means that you would deny equal rights. If you would give fags equal rights (but not special ones), that is not intolerance.



what you accused me off is ludacris NAACP isn't a business, ACLU isn't a business, Weapons Permits aren't a business.


NAACP and the ACLU are both businesses. They receive contributions (ie, payments) from individuals who beleive in thier cause. The Republican and Democrat Parties are businesses in the same manner (but maybe less-"businesslike" by law) in that you pay them and they do something you want. I give money to the ACLU for the service they render unto me (in that they defend constitutional rights thru lawyers if you will). I give money to the NAACP for the service they give me of standing up for blacks. I give money to the Republican party in return for them trying to get Republicans elected. Weapons permits are not a business, and you might not agree that aclu and naacp are businesses. BUT, in a free market, like you claim to want, I am free to give my money to whomever I choose to do whatever I want. And they are allowed to do whatever they want with the capital they have. Thus, the ACLU and NAACP (while more of a business than "weapons permits") do what thier people hire them to do. They receive money from random people to pursue thier causes- they are not govt entities. And while "weapons permits" are not a business, gun dealers are. Gun dealers sell guns to people who want them. So when you implement any sort of gun control, gun dealers and thier customers have to comply with those laws (or controls). Therefore, by implementing weapons permits, you are by definition making the market comply with your laws, and since buyers and sellers are not free to do as they wish, this market is not free.



Type in "Free Disney Pix" in a search engine and tell me how many hits you get of porn and then tell me how many are free.


Actually, I implore you all to do it. It is indeed a tragedy. Modifying that some to change "pix" to "pics" or "pictures" produces none to few results for porn, but (if I remember correctly) "pics" still gets some porn. However, not only can you ask the search engine to filter out porn sites, you can also get filtering software for your own computer (and your kids') that will not allow visitations to those sites. Further, you can refuse to type porno keywords (such as "pix"), but that still may not be enough. Rather than punish adults who like internet porn, perhaps we could prosecute sites that blatantly attempt to get kids to view porn. It may be a hard "law-based" case to make. But people dont just get certain keywords to come up in search engines (and I should know, because I've been working as a programmer in the web industry for quite a while now). Those people who get "free disney pix" to come up in the search engine actively try to do so. They should be prosecuted, convicted (based on evidence which I am happy to provide expert testimony on), and shut down. That is ****ing sick. I'm pretty ****ing sick... but not that sick.



So if someone wants to open up, say, a porn shop the government should have no right to tell them to make handicap access points or who they should be allowed to sell to? Dont talk about morals you thief. What happened to nick berg or paul johnson is irrelevent to how WE should act, WE are NOT the terrorists, we hold ourselves to BETTER standards than the terrorists do, if you want to use THEIR barbaric acts to justify some evil deeds of our own then WE ARE NO BETTER THAN THEM. Moral card....... what a joke.


again, props on that. i couldn't have said it better myself, nor would i want to. it was perfect.



Democrats and Republicans are both crooks. For every crooked Republican, there is a crooked Democrat. I lean more towards conservatism for two reasons:

1. For some reason like 99% of Computer Science majors are conservative (from what I have seen). I fall into that majority.
2. Ted Kennedy is a drunk murderer. That and Al Gore pissed me off with his "I invented the internet" comment.


I agree- Dems and reps are crooks for the most part. About leaning towards conservatism based on comp scientists, I don't know. I've read that many of them beleive in libertarianism, but my own experience leads me to beleive they dont care all that much. In my schooling, I never met one who cared about politics, which was bad for me because I got degrees in both. As for the algore and teddy kenedy part, thats just funny as far as i'm concerned =) ...



Yes I do, [hanging people]


I'm sorry about that, and if you are serious (which i half-doubt you are), I take exception to it. I would not hang cons. front or people who think like him- nor would I hang his "enemies." They may all be wrong, and even extremistly wrong, but I would not hang them for their ideas.

[stewey]

Im sorry, but if you get caught fighting on side of the Taliban of Al Queda, you deserve Gauntanamo Bay Cuba. In fact, its too good for them. IMO, we should put them on trial, if guilty, execute their ass. We will have to hold them til they die anyways, since there is no way they can be released for the safety of America. May as well save money and execute rather than life in a prison.

[Conservative Front]

Gas stations and Supermarkets can sell Beer,Liquor,and Cigarettes and those are all regulated and I haven't heard you gripe about them. well i'm not a theft, but I don't think I accused anybody of being a terrorist i'm not sure where this though of you'res was seeded so i'm just going to ignore it. and a Moral Card I honestly don't believe you understand morals (this isn't intended to be a personal shot I just don't believe you understand morals at all).
---end response to dontbeafraid---

Ted Kennedy is a Drunk Murder he left that poor girl for dead that bastard and the liberals still proclaim him as great. So let me get this straight here and tell me if you can understand this stewey They hate Bush because he is a lieing Murder but the Praise Kennedy yet he's a PROVEN lieing murder...
---end respone to stewey---

Are you accusing me of being a terrorist? wow thats pretty sick... And When did I say I would hang everyone that argeed with Bin Laden? I don't think I did (and i'm accused of twisting words) You seem like you're more intolerant then I am, You Believe I Deserve to DIE because I believe in a Different IDEALOGY thats Totalitarianism...
and you have no Idea what kind of politician I would be I don't think you really know me You just Point fingers and Accuse me of being a Terrorist...
---end response to Mac Rasta---

Some Pre-Empetive attacks are nessecary. i'm not saying we have to be attacked to Attack if we have justified cause to attack a country id say do it. and I understand where you are coming from with the 9/11 link with Saddam but new evidence is coming out everyday from the left-leaning "bipartisan haha" 9/11 Commision there 900 some odd page report cleary states there where direct ties between Saddam and Al Qeada including 9/11 read the report he's all right there and I understand you have to pick and choose what to believe but I mean this is still a Lefty Commision that all in all opposed the war but is still coming out with this report.

(and no worries about the other post connections with this one)

I think government promoting business would be up to the business owner I see no real problem with government encouragment to start a business but I don't really believe in Government Sponsorship because then the Business becomes parshall State-Owned but once again if the owner wants that then its there choice.

If its extreme cases of young kids then id pull the kids out off the home because theres No Way a 10 year old is capable of considering sex nor are they capable of consenting in extreme young cases I too would blame the parents.

In my state (colorado) We just passed the Concealed weapons permit and all you have to do is take a gun safety course and register with the police department (and no felonys, but you can't buy a gun if you are a felony anyway) I think everyone has the right to bear arms but if they have felonys like Armed Robbery then Concealment would be a threat. However if someone just wants to carry a gun for protection or what not then I say go for I would even be willing to drop the Safety class they would just have to register with the police department for a Background check.

I mean Ill Admit I don't know everything about the ACLU they have done Good things i'm not denying that and I don't really believe it too be nessacry anymore because people are smarter now and it seems the ACLU's primary focus is on playing the Race card when theres no Race Card to be played. now perhaps if we broke down the ACLU and rescripted it and set some standards for them I would be more lax on the issue It just seems there wrong doing out weights there good doing for the majority of the time.

I don't think the "torture" at Abu Ghar was the right thing to do by any means I just don't believe it was all that extreme. We could have been killing them or wounded them instead we simply just humiliated them a little bit to try and get information out of them to me Stripping someone down and putting a bag on there head isn't torture its interrogation now the whole Sex in front of the prisoners was a little extreme and I condemn that. One things though the POW's who claimed the guards made them masturbate sounds like fabricated lies to me the Guards at GITMO said the POW's do it all the time to "intimate" the guards so I don't believe that was ever forced on them. Do I completely condone what the guards did not really but was it that severe? no it could have been alot worse then it was said to be.

I think you're idea's on extreme liberals isn't exactly correct because thats quite a bit different scenerio the prisons at GITMO are knowin Enemy Combatants either because they turned themselves in or they where caught fighting against our troops now if we are holding knowin combatants then they are POW's and American Libertys shouldn't apply to them. i'm not saying we should execute them or hold them forever I just think as of right now they are knowin Enemy combatants and shouldn't have rights to denouce there time at GITMO because they are a threat to U.S. Troops if there turned back over to Iraq/Afgan.

In some states (Texas for one) after a Private enterprise hires more then 14 employees its submitted to Government Regulation which in turn enacts Affirmative action.

Ok, I admit I used the word Intolerant to freely. but If We Remove "one man, one woman" from the definition of marriage, doesn't that open the door to calling any relationship a marriage? It's not about intolerance or being judgmental, its about the truth.

But that still doesn't render the ACLU or NAACP a Business it makes them a political activist group. Yes you can give them money to support you but that still doesn't make them a business. I just think the ACLU and NAACP have to much political power and are unjust in most of what the fight for (an example from each ACLU-Wants to remove crosses from a county seal NAACP- Claimed a black man that was hit by cops was police brutality even AFTER the autopsy showed he had extreme amounts of Coke in his system that and he weight about 350 pounds and he wouldn't stop taking shots at the cops) The NAACP and ACLU will also show video's of say police brutality of cops hitting someone without the full story.

Thats what I was implying was to punish the websites the promote porn to kids and those Internet Filter programs aren't that hard to get around if the kid is computer litetrate. Like I said I would just regulate porn I would get rid of it as a whole I just don't think kids need to be submitted to it.
---end response to substand---

[DontBeAfraid]

I wasnt griping about the selling of porn you poon. I was pointing out that your idea of a "free-market" would be the farthest thing from it. Unfortunely your english skills are REALLY bad and you have trouble staying focused. You plan to steal money from Micheal Moore, this makes you a theif.

You are a would-be terrorist. You want to use the actions of other terrorists to justify evil acts of your own. This makes you NO better than any terrorist. I know I made my point perfectly clear in my last response to you so I suggest you get an english tutor, study and practice the english language for a few months/years, reread my post and then respond to it.
My morals: I beleive in the golden rule. I know that morals are ONLY relative to the respective society (dont even bother trying to comprehend that sentence- I used words with more than one meaning). I know there are no universal human morals. I know my morals (the golden rule) are far more respectable than your morals.

People were BEATEN AND MURDERED at abu grahb(sp), It was documented by the military CID.
The 900 page report by the 9/11 commission had NO new evidence linking saddam to 9/11, stop making shit up.

[Conservative Front]

How is my idea of a free market far from the truth? I want less government regulations on Corporations and private enterprise. and I like i've mentioned in several post in on the other boards I'm simply doing what michael moore wants me too do see his film at all cost. so thats what I'm gonna do.

Justification is a key reason to fight for anything is it not? and evil acts that I DID? what the hell are you talking about?

How are you're morals respectable? so far from what I've seen in you're posts you have no reconciliation of what morals are nor do you understand them and why do you insist at taking personal pop shots at me with every post you make (directed to me) You are merely just proving you're ignorance with that.

Beaten and Murdered? I don't think I really said I condoned all the actions plus I don't really believe that either but if it were true then thats a bit extreme. but I could careless if they bag there heads and strip them down i've seen worse things at partys. Do you believe if where nice to the people that where trying to kill us they would just tell us everything we wanted to know? what would you're ideal interrogation be?

Have you read the report? I have and its all in it.

[stewey]

I don't think anyone agrees with what the US soldiers did at Abu Graihb, but, there are bad apples in every bunch. Those soldiers represent a small (7/250000+) minority of the military.

Anyways, that is child's play compared to what Saddam did there. Check out this video of it:

WARNING: VERY VERY GRAPHIC VIDEO LINKED AHEAD AND ALSO CONTAINS PORN BANNERS. THIS IS A DISCLAIMER; DO NOT CLICK IF UNDER 18, DO NOT CLICK IF YOU GET DISTURBED OR DISGUSTED EASILY. THIS IS A DISTURBING VIDEO OF TORTURE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/content/detail.asp?ID=36238&type=1&page=1&fav=0

[mysticalzoe]

I was brave enough to watch the video, very sad, this man is sick! :guill:

Jessica

[DontBeAfraid]

Stewey what saddam did DOES NOT MATTER when we are deciding how WE should act. Our actions are not being judged by saddam, they are being judged by us.

CF you are ignored until i feel like tolerating your almost unbearable ignorance, bigotry(sp), and hipocrasy(sp) again. Could be quite a while.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I agree with DBA, we should be above resorting to that kind of crap and in no way should the actions of another nation dictate how we ourselves should be. Lest you torture lovers forget, it was the US that assisted that same torturer into office as well as teach it to many others who have gone on to use it on their own. Wake up! :sleeping:

[stewey]

The people that got abused in Abu Graihb were the ones who were committing those sick acts in the video. I just find it ironic that they are now complaining about it being done to them, when they defended their doing it before. I agree it is wrong, and those responsible should be reprimanded appropriately.

[MetalMilitia]

As for that video, i've seen similar from various other countries. People shot and quartered, riot police pumping live ammo into crowds, hangings, burnings. I have footage from China, Russia, all across the middle east perpetrating similar or worse crimes. This is world-wide, not just one man.

Why don't we take the murder rate in California for example. The largest cities and counties reported 1,842 killings from January through December 2002 -- 179 more than in 2001, according to preliminary figures from the state attorney general's office. http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/04/28/california.crime.ap/

Human nature to do this to other people...

Hmmm... speaking of torturing you own people...and suffering... doesn't the US have a history of letting people live in agony... the whole time in sheer silence no less? Using them as nothing more than meer sheeple to poke and prod on?

For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis.

These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for "bad blood," their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis?which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death.

"As I see it," one of the doctors involved explained, "we have no further interest in these patients until they die."


what saddam did DOES NOT MATTER when we are deciding how WE should act. Our actions are not being judged by saddam, they are being judged by us.

Thank you.

These mad-men are all over the place, some just hide it better than others.

I'm :alcoholic and :sleep: so I might just be making all this stuff up...

-MM- :crs:

[Defiant Noquisi]

The people that got abused in Abu Graihb were the ones who were committing those sick acts in the video. I just find it ironic that they are now complaining about it being done to them, when they defended their doing it before. I agree it is wrong, and those responsible should be reprimanded appropriately. Stewey, where is your proof of this? Id like to see it. It doesnt make sense since the prisoners were cleared of the accusations they were being held for and released, some were released before the torturing by US military became public.

Since you feel so strongly about those commiting acts of torture being held accountable, should the US also be held accountable for its own? And even if the US doesnt actually commit these acts, should we be accountable if we pay for them since we aided and abetted the crimes?

[MetalMilitia]

The people that got abused in Abu Graihb were the ones who were committing those sick acts in the video. I just find it ironic that they are now complaining about it being done to them, when they defended their doing it before. I agree it is wrong, and those responsible should be reprimanded appropriately.

I at least back up "my rhetoric" with links and facts, you need to do the same if you're gonna suggest the notions you support.

Many of the prisoners abused at the Abu Ghraib prison were innocent Iraqis picked up at random by US troops, and incarcerated by under-qualified intelligence officers, a former US interrogator from the notorious jail told the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1211374,00.html

In a report in February, the Red Cross stated that some military intelligence officers estimated that 70 percent to 90 percent of "the persons deprived of their liberty in Iraq had been arrested by mistake." Of the 43,000 Iraqis who have been imprisoned at some point during the occupation, only about 600 have been referred to Iraqi authorities for prosecution, according to U.S. officials.

The Red Cross study, posted Monday on the Wall Street Journal's Web site, concludes that the arrest and detention practices employed by U.S.-led forces in Iraq "are prohibited under International Humanitarian Law."

http://www.truthout.org/mm_01/4.rcr.iraq.pdf

The LA Times reports that most Iraqi prisoners were arrested by mistake:

Coalition military intelligence officials estimated that 70% to 90% of prisoners detained in Iraq since the war began last year "had been arrested by mistake," according to a confidential Red Cross report given to the Bush administration earlier this year.

Yet the report described a wide range of prisoner mistreatment including many new details of abusive techniques that it said U.S. officials had failed to halt, despite repeated complaints from the International Committee of the Red Cross.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-redcross11may11,1,7724354.story?coll=la-home-headlines

-MM- :crs:

[stewey]

I think the people who did it should be dealt with accordingly (aka punished). There is no excuse for doing what they did. There is also a difference between the state approving of what they did (Saddam's regime) and them very strongly disapproving (USA). However, I did not know that about innocent Iraqi's being tortured by us - I never saw that about such a large majority being arrested falsely. I was wrong there,

[Defiant Noquisi]

Okay Stewey, but you still didnt answer my question. Should the US also be convicted of its own involvement, or is it a case of "do what I say, not what I do" in regards to the US?

[stewey]

Well I think if the US is disciplining the troops involved, it should be good. Not like it was endorsed by GWB.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Well I think if the US is disciplining the troops involved, it should be good. Not like it was endorsed by GWB. Let me ask you more accurately. If the US government sponsored torture and murder in other countries, as it has done, would you hold the government accountable the same as you do of foriegn countries?

[stewey]

Let me ask you more accurately. If the US government sponsored torture and murder in other countries, as it has done, would you hold the government accountable the same as you do of foriegn countries?

Very much so. If our government sponsored torture, I would hold our government (or politician(s), as may be the case) responsible.

[Conservative Front]

That isn't a problem for me, if my "ignorances" has made you ignore me then perhaps thats shows what you really are intolerant toward Conservative views If you must ignore me that is fine but keep in mind you ignoring me fuels my point of view that you simply hate whats truth and whats moral.
---end response to dontbeafraid---

There isn't justification for "beatings and killings" but like stewey was saying the irony will make you laugh it was only ok for them to torture but when they are handed the same cards they can't handle it. Now i'm not saying I agree with the "torture" however the bags on the heads and nude pictures didn't phase me.

---end response to whom it may concern---

and Stewey I agree with you across the board.

[humanhybrid]

Does that mean that consevative veiws are hypocritical? Or is it that our current administation is? hehe :D

[Conservative Front]

I wasn't saying my views are hypocritial. That was merely accusations against me which DBA seems to be quite good at pointing fingers whenever he's lost the debate.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I wasn't saying my views are hypocritial. That was merely accusations against me which DBA seems to be quite good at pointing fingers whenever he's lost the debate. I wouldnt be so quick to say DBA has lost anything. In fact, he has been very accurate in regards to you. You are a very biased person yourself and go out of your way to smear him since he doesnt go out of his way to support your opinion. It would be nice if you saw that you do exactly what you accuse others of doing. Maybe if you literally pointed a finger at someone, you would see the three fingers that are pointing back at yourself. What you have been accusing others of doing does in fact prove (by your own testimony) that you are just as guilty of being a hypocrite as you accuse others of being. :liar:

[dutchie]

DN: :toast: :grin :thumbs:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Thanks Dutchie, just calling it like I see it. We all have been trying to educate him but its hard to do when he posts as if there is nothing of value beyond his own opinion.

[MacRasta]

I really wonder what school he graduated early from....

Mac :grin

[Defiant Noquisi]

I really wonder what school he graduated early from.... He posted it in a self-congratulatory bragathon post somewhere.

[MetalMilitia]

Laz sent this to me :D

> TWO TOUGH QUESTIONS
>
> Question 1:
>
> If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three
> who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had
> syphilis, would you recommend that she have an abortion?
>
> Read the next question before looking at the answer for this one.
>
>
> Question 2:
>
> It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts.
> Here are the facts about the three leading candidates.
>
>
> Candidate A -
>
> Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologists.
> He's had two Mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10
> martinis a day.
>
>
> Candidate B -
>
> He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until
> noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whiskey every
> evening.
>
>
> Candidate C -
>
> He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian,
> doesn't smoke, drinks an occasional beer and never cheated on his
> wife.
>
>
> Which of these candidates would be your choice?
> Decide first, no peeking, then scroll down for the answer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (have you thought about it?)
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (keep scrolling...)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Candidate A: is Franklin D. Roosevelt.
> Candidate B: is Winston Churchill.
> Candidate C: is Adolph Hitler.
>
>
>
> And, by the way, the answer to the abortion
> question:
>
> If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven.
>
> Pretty interesting isn't it? Makes a person think
> before judging someone. Never be afraid to try something new.
>
> Remember: Amateurs built the ark. Professionals
> built the Titanic
>
>
>
> and in case you never saw this one......
>
> Can you imagine working for a company that has a
> little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:
>
> * 29 have been accused of spousal abuse
>
> * 7 have been arrested for fraud
>
> * 19 have been accused of writing bad checks
>
> * 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at
> least 2 businesses
>
> * 3 have done time for assault
>
> * 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
>
> * 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
>
> * 8 have been arrested for shoplifting
>
> * 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
>
> * 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the
> last year
>
> Can you guess which organization this is?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (keep scrolling)
>
>
>
>
> Give up yet?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's the 535 members of the United States Congress.
> The same group of idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws
> each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.
>
> You gotta pass this on.....

Kinda makes you think doesn't it?

-MM- :crs:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Sorry MM, Ive seen that one before so I knew the answers. Id also have to add "racist" to candidate A.

Heres an update on the Congressman part of it.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/congress.html

[Conservative Front]

I haven't really accused people of doing anything I could careless if DBA disagrees with my opinion on things it doesn't matter it's politics and I realize and know that people aren't going to agree with me however a string of personal attacks is not what I consider "accusations" read his post directed to me its all there.
---end response to defiant---

[MetalMilitia]

I bet you picked Hitler :P

-MM- :crs:

[Conservative Front]

I didn't pick anything I've read that same thing quite some time ago.

[stewey]

Hitler cheated on his wife, he had a mistress. It was his neice of all people too.

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/nazi/adolf-hitler/

[humanhybrid]

Republicans Trust YOU.
Democrats Trust GOVERNMENT. Its not important that the republicans trusts the public as the rhetoric goes. Its really the question of trusting them as most of them have more to lose.

[MetalMilitia]

http://img36.exs.cx/img36/8471/toon1.gif

Lighten up, drink a beer.

[humanhybrid]

Lighten up, drink a beer WHO me? Do I seem a little heavy?

[Marajadex]

Lighten up, drink a beerDon't mind if I do! :alcoholic A beer sounds good. Maybe a Sam Addams as we are discussing politics. :D

[DarkAce]

Atleast the religious idiots were fun to toy with, not to mention atleast quite punctual for most of them.

/me bows head in shame towards the new breed...

[Defiant Noquisi]

I haven't really accused people of doing anything I could careless if DBA disagrees with my opinion on things it doesn't matter it's politics and I realize and know that people aren't going to agree with me however a string of personal attacks is not what I consider "accusations" read his post directed to me its all there.
---end response to defiant--- That has got to be the longest sentance you have ever posted here. I know whats there, Ive read the posts. You have resorted to the same so pointing out what DBA has done as wrong somehow makes yours...right? :wlink:

[Defiant Noquisi]

I bet you picked Hitler :P Yep, the first time I read that I did in fact pick Hitler. HEIL!!! :grin

[Defiant Noquisi]

WHO me? Do I seem a little heavy? I dont know, Ive never been able to pick you up. BAhahahaha!! Sorry I couldnt help myself.

That cartoon MM posted is what I was trying to tell you in another thread. I like the cartoon version better than what I said.

[Marajadex]

That first panel in MM's cartoon post... Isn't that what Bush said"

When I grow up, I'm not going to read the newspaper and I am not going to follow complex issues and I'm not going to vote.
Well I don't know if he said the vote part.
:Blbl:

[Conservative Front]

It does make me right.

---end response to defiant--

What do you mean by more too lose? personally Id rather have a small government that trusted it's people over a Large Government that trusted themselves with everything.

---end response to humanhybrid---

[DontBeAfraid]

Oh so youre against the government being so big that they can tell you who you can and cant marry then. Because a government that doesnt trust you to make your own relationship decisions is about as INTRUSIVE as a government can get.

[Defiant Noquisi]

It does make me right. BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! No, it in fact proves your arrogance.

Dutchie, besides the smiley of a donkeys south end, I also request one with a little balloon that says "dumb ass" in it.

[Defiant Noquisi]

That first panel in MM's cartoon post... Isn't that what Bush said"

Well I don't know if he said the vote part.
:Blbl: The kid did say vote, I dont know where ya come up with Bush though.

[Marajadex]

The kid did say vote, I dont know where ya come up with Bush though.I was just making an attempt at a joke. Bush has stated many times he does not read the papers and well... Sometimes complex issues seem to allude him. Yes it was a poor attempt at a joke. Must have been too late in the evening to be thinking straight. :blush:

[Defiant Noquisi]

I was just making an attempt at a joke. Bush has stated many times he does not read the papers and well... Sometimes complex issues seem to allude him. Yes it was a poor attempt at a joke. Must have been too late in the evening to be thinking straight. :blush: Oh sorry! I totally forgot about that! :Bow:

[Conservative Front]

Ok, so would it be ok if say a Man and a dog wanted to wed? If it makes the man happy why shouldn't we allow it? Redefining marriage and removing 1 man and 1 women would open up the door to call any relationship a marriage so to answer you're question NO I don't think the government defining marriage insinuates a large nor an intrusive government.

--end response to dontbeafraid---

You fuel my arrogance Defiant.

[Defiant Noquisi]

You fuel my arrogance Defiant. Dont blame me for your personal weaknesses. Im not there holding a gun to your head telling you that you have to be arrogant or else. Thats your choice and the responsibility is on you.

Likewise, dont blame anyone else either. We started out trying to help you out. You got defensive and arrogant. You reap what you sow.