'I have to keep her indoors now': Muslim husband's shocking response as wife is first to be fined £430 for wearing a burka

[GamerGal]

Under Italian anti-terrorist legislation, introduced during the 1970s to fight political activists, it is illegal to be seen in a public place with your face covered.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1271848/Woman-Italy-fined-430-wearing-burqa.html

First, as quoted, it is a law from the 70's so they could fight terrorists. But my problem is this...


'If the law says she can't wear one then she will have to stay inside night and day. There is nothing I can do.'



That's right, because Italy says women are equal with men, he will keep her enslaved in his home for the rest of her life.

[lycanox]

This law is basically the equalivent of a burka ban. Which is often falsely promoted to increase the freedom of muslim woman.

And this is a prime example why it does not work that way.

[GamerGal]

Because the Muslim Male then keeps his slave in a cage in the basement, yeah, totally the fault of an anti terror law.

[James Random]

What's a burka?...oh you mean a Burqa.

[Rabid1]

What's a burka?...oh you mean a Burqa.

Having failed as the swearing police, james has expanded his job to spelling police. Unfortunately james is unaware that burkha, burka or burqua are all acceptable spellings.

BOT-

It is funny how the public including the Muslim there community appear to be OK with the law in general. Most of the people outraged seem to be from outside Italy, by the comments.

I can understabd a law that is specific about where, like the post office or a federal building. The law isn't just the burka but any clothing the hides the identity. But then you get the mayor saying [QUOTE}The people of Novara do not want to see people walking around in the city wearing a burka[/QUOTE] it becomes an entirely different beast.

[Abyssal_Worm]

I'm not fond of the idea of women being required to wear a burqa...but it is their cultural belief. No one has the right to infringe upon that belief. The more we try to force the issue the more likely we are going to have a serious culture clash that is going to result in terrible violence.

[custompainter]

My question is why? Why would you want to hide your wife's face? Middle eastern women are some of the most beautiful on the planet. Well besides the ones here at AO that is.
These arabic dudes are fuckin it up for the rest of us. So I say "NO MORE BURKAS!"

[Cyranothe2nd]

Having failed as the swearing police, james has expanded his job to spelling police. Unfortunately james is unaware that burkha, burka or burqua are all acceptable spellings.


Wrong James, dude. This is James Random, that was James Bowles.

And Lycanox is exactly right---THIS IS WHY THESE LAWS DON'T WORK. They don't increase the freedom of Muslim women. Telling women what they can and cannot wear doesn't make them liberated...it just makes you their new tyrant.

Also, there are exceptions to laws. In the US, it's considered impolite to wear a hat in court, except if you're wearing a yarmulke. It's a religious exception and, while I am generally against giving religion special treatment ever, it seems like a fair compromise to make in this case.

[Cartesiantheater]

Wrong James, dude. This is James Random, that was James Bowles.

And Lycanox is exactly right---THIS IS WHY THESE LAWS DON'T WORK. They don't increase the freedom of Muslim women. Telling women what they can and cannot wear doesn't make them liberated...it just makes you their new tyrant.
[...]

Right. The government shouldn't be telling people what they can and cannot wear. Total bullshit.

[GamerGal]

First, no Muslim Woman chooses what she wears. She is taught from birth she is less then human, the Quran even states she is only an animal(Equal with dogs and asses) So you can't say "It's a cultural thing!" When it is actually a cult thing.
Also, the law states ALL face coverings, so like if Michael Jackson showed up covering his face, he'd be fined.(I know he is dead but he went to some store with a mask on and didn't understand why he was told take it off)
But the fucked up part of it all? He states in public he will enslave her indoors for the rest of her life instead of giving her equal rights. I know Muslims say... Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'" But in Italy and most of the civil world they are gasp, considered human.


It would be no different then say, a law that says you can't torture children, and then the children of some Southern Baptists being taken away because they were beaten and flogged on a daily basis for sinning. Oh what, we actually do that in America? So, Southern Baptists can't torture children, no cry of religious discrimination, but in Italy you can't wear any mask in public hiding identity, and it is religious discrimination because Muslim Males truly believe that God/Allah says women are animals.

[lycanox]

Your point is?

If the law has a negative effect on helping Muslim woman to get more freedom while that is the purpose of the law. The existence of the law is not defensible. No matter how you turn it.

And this story from Italy, basically proves that those groups claiming that we should ban Burkas to help Muslim woman to be more free. Are essentially completely wrong and that a different approach must be found.

[DontBeAfraid]

and that a different approach must be found. Like banning religion!

[GamerGal]

And this story from Italy, basically proves that those groups claiming that we should ban Burkas to help Muslim woman to be more free. Are essentially completely wrong and that a different approach must be found.

No, it proves even more that Muslim Males are monsters. When told he must treat his wife like she is *gasp* a human, he says no, she's an animal, my property, and I will lock her in a cage for the rest of her life.

[lycanox]

No, it proves even more that Muslim Males are monsters. When told he must treat his wife like she is *gasp* a human, he says no, she's an animal, my property, and I will lock her in a cage for the rest of her life.
That is no reason to create laws that makes matters worse.

[GamerGal]

That is no reason to create laws that makes matters worse.

How is it that a Muslim keeps a woman in a cage, and yet the law stating she is equal is the problem.

The law is not the problem, the fact that this man and millions of others all over the world believe God/Allah told them women are animals is the problem. A law states women are equal/human, so he will keep her in a cage indoors at all times, yet you blame the law. HOW?! That is like blaming the law every time some one commits a crime in America and saying "Well, if murder wasn't against the law then he wouldn't have committed a crime!"

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?! Or should we just legalize murder so we have no more crimes involving murder because it is no longer against the law? Oh wait, killing women isn't a crime in the majority of the ME, and in fact they have Moral Police in Saudi Arabia who do just that when ever they see a woman outside of the home with out a male escort. So I guess we should all just legalize the murder of women so we won't offend the Muslims that belive the Quran when it says women are animals.

Which leads me to another question, if the Quran states women are animals, then does that mean this Muslim male and others who believe that part of the Quran are actually committing beastiality? I know not all believe that part, just like not all Christians believe that part of the Earth being flat, but the ones who do believe that part of Quran stating women are animals like dogs and asses, are they committing beastiality?

[Abyssal_Worm]

No, it proves even more that Muslim Males are monsters. When told he must treat his wife like she is *gasp* a human, he says no, she's an animal, my property, and I will lock her in a cage for the rest of her life.

Actually it proves that in Muslim society males remain the dominant gender. Again, this is a cultural system that Americans simply do not understand, nor do we AS A WHOLE try to understand. They take their faith just as seriously as any Christian. Its just that whenever we hear about their faith, it is always filtered through news media outlets that have a Pro-Western mentality and Anti-minority posture.

Again, I do not like the idea of people having to conceal themselves when in public, but that's none of my business. These people have a human right to follow whatever religious/cultural philosophy they want. One could argue that the system is being forced upon the women because it is how they are brought up from birth, but it is NO DIFFERENT than in a Christian household in which the parents feed their children propaganda that depicts Christianity as the only true religion. Don't say it doesn't happen, I've seen enough of it first hand. In no way am I trying to say that Christianity is as bad as Islam or vice versa. In this paragraph I am merely pointing out that the indoctrination of one cultural belief is just as common as the indoctrination of a different culture.

Quite simply: We need to just leave these people alone.

[Abyssal_Worm]

As for her being locked in a cage...lets have some proof that the cage is real and not just a metaphor. Otherwise, this is merely a play on words and is simply being interpreted differently by people who simply have differing views and wish to make the situation appear more "outlandish."

[GamerGal]

Actually it proves that in Muslim society males remain the dominant gender. Again, this is a cultural system that Americans simply do not understand, nor do we AS A WHOLE try to understand. They take their faith just as seriously as any Christian. Its just that whenever we hear about their faith, it is always filtered through news media outlets that have a Pro-Western mentality and Anti-minority posture.

Again, I do not like the idea of people having to conceal themselves when in public, but that's none of my business. These people have a human right to follow whatever religious/cultural philosophy they want. One could argue that the system is being forced upon the women because it is how they are brought up from birth, but it is NO DIFFERENT than in a Christian household in which the parents feed their children propaganda that depicts Christianity as the only true religion. Don't say it doesn't happen, I've seen enough of it first hand. In no way am I trying to say that Christianity is as bad as Islam or vice versa. In this paragraph I am merely pointing out that the indoctrination of one cultural belief is just as common as the indoctrination of a different culture.

Quite simply: We need to just leave these people alone.


Except when children are flogged and tortured because they sinned in a southern Baptist home, the law takes them away because it is against the law.

Also, males are not just dominant, they are GODS. Women aren't even considered HUMAN! It is a cult and should not be allowed any more then Jim Jones and his kool aid. Until they either remove all the parts stating men are gods and women are animals or women are allowed freedom, it is nothing more then a cult much like the Catholic Church. Both are cults, hate women, and shouldn't be allowed. At least in other branches of Christianity women can be preachers and are considered human in all parts, unlike Islam where only the liberal branches consider women as human.

[lycanox]

How is it that a Muslim keeps a woman in a cage, and yet the law stating she is equal is the problem.

The law is not the problem, the fact that this man and millions of others all over the world believe God/Allah told them women are animals is the problem. A law states women are equal/human, so he will keep her in a cage indoors at all times, yet you blame the law. HOW?! That is like blaming the law every time some one commits a crime in America and saying "Well, if murder wasn't against the law then he wouldn't have committed a crime!"

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?! Or should we just legalize murder so we have no more crimes involving murder because it is no longer against the law? Oh wait, killing women isn't a crime in the majority of the ME, and in fact they have Moral Police in Saudi Arabia who do just that when ever they see a woman outside of the home with out a male escort. So I guess we should all just legalize the murder of women so we won't offend the Muslims.
That is just silly ranting again.

In the end those laws are not there to punish Muslim husbands from forcing burkas on their woman. But to help those woman to become more free.

Your whole argument in this thread is that burkas should be banned because Muslims are evil and use it to control their wives.
While complaining in the very first post about the very negative contra productive effects that prove that banning burkas does absolutely nothing to help Muslim woman gain more freedom.

In short you are just using this whole example as an excuse to whine about Islam and are supporting laws just because they happen to have negative effects for their religion. And you are absolutely not interested in actually helping those woman gain more freedom.

[Abyssal_Worm]

I agree that it is terrible that such actions take place towards the women and children. But this is something that has gone on for thousands of years. It is not going to change just because Americans and a few Europeans think that it is wrong. Getting them to change that belief is going to be seen as a direct threat to their belief system and will lead to brutal violence. If they are going to give up their brutal ways, it will have to be because THEY WANT TO. We cannot change their minds, nor should we. We have bigger and more important problems to deal with right now.

[GamerGal]

The only way they can be helped is if the police go in and rescue them and put them in schools, get them jobs, teach them they aren't animals like they have been told since birth

OR

Round up every Muslim Male on the planet, show them a woman working a job or showing an ankle. The ones who flip out and start foaming at the mouth while screaming about women are animals execute while the ones who don't have a problem with a woman working/showing an ankle are clearly MEN and not monsters and should not just be allowed back out but praised for being MEN and not monsters.

Also, thanks for telling me and every woman on here you don't believe we are human. How dare Italy have a law stating women are human! Why, this just proves that laws stating women are human are wrong!

[GamerGal]

I agree that it is terrible that such actions take place towards the women and children. But this is something that has gone on for thousands of years. It is not going to change just because Americans and a few Europeans think that it is wrong. Getting them to change that belief is going to be seen as a direct threat to their belief system and will lead to brutal violence. If they are going to give up their brutal ways, it will have to be because THEY WANT TO. We cannot change their minds, nor should we. We have bigger and more important problems to deal with right now.

So, we should have just let the NAZIS take over the world and wipe out the Jews because they believed in that idea?(I know, Godwins Law)

So we should have just let the Church exterminate all the Indians because that is what they believed?

So we should have just let Mao and Stalin free reign because that is what they believed?

Also, you may think there are bigger problems out there then millions of males beating and raping and keeping women as slaves, but as a woman I see few things bigger.(Cancer/Disease being one of those few things)

[lycanox]

The only way they can be helped is if the police go in and rescue them and put them in schools, get them jobs, teach them they aren't animals like they have been told since birth
Wouldn't it be a lot easier simply not to ban the burka so those woman can be a part of the community.


Also, thanks for telling me and every woman on here you don't believe we are human. How dare Italy have a law stating women are human! Why, this just proves that laws stating women are human are wrong!
You are the one promoting laws. Knowing it will only result in woman being locked up.
Just because you happen in some pissing contest versus Islam.

Not me.

So lets not accuse me of not making a judgment based on whats best for those woman.

[GamerGal]

What's best is equal rights and freedom for ALL. Not just men, not just Muslim or Christian, gay or straight, ALL. But you claim since Muslims don't believe in equal rights or freedom we should respect that? Fuck no. We are all created equal and it is bullshit you can stand there and say women should just take it because that is what Muslim males believe.

Also, what about the Muslim MEN who allow women *gasp* equal rights? Should they then be punished for not keeping women in cages? Or should we praise them as the MEN that they are for not acting like monsters?

[lycanox]

Nobody is talking about not giving Muslim woman the freedom and rights they deserve.

The thing is. You are promoting a method that has already proved itself not to work.
And having even more negative effects for Muslim woman.
And refuse to accept that it does not work. And that we thus should stop such laws and look for other solutions that actually do work.

Just because you happen to be in some kind of pissing contest with their religion.

[Abyssal_Worm]

So, we should have just let the NAZIS take over the world and wipe out the Jews because they believed in that idea?(I know, Godwins Law)

You comparison between Western/Muslim cultural clash and Nazism is faulty at best. Hitler's agenda of eradicating the Jews, and several other non-Aryan races, was far more brutal than the cultural oppression that we think of Islam today.


So we should have just let the Church exterminate all the Indians because that is what they believed?

Which church are you talking about specifically?


So we should have just let Mao and Stalin free reign because that is what they believed?

Within their own borders, leaders are going to do whatever they wish. Have we done anything significant about Darfur? No. Have we done anything to help deal with the brutal oppression in Burma? No. Has the role of interventionist helped the world, or has it create a significantly more hostile environment? The US government may have helped many people across the globe, but lets not forget that we have done significant damage all in the name of spreading democracy. Imagine the hell we would unleash if we attempted to openly change Muslim society...


Also, you may think there are bigger problems out there then millions of males beating and raping and keeping women as slaves, but as a woman I see few things bigger.(Cancer/Disease being one of those few things)

Prove that there are "millions of males beating and raping and keeping women as slaves." Again, we only hear about the extreme cases of violence, and next to nothing about the families in which violence does not exist. Peace and tranquility are not considered news worthy in Western Media outlets. Violence and despair are. That is why when you turn on the news the first stories you will see reported are generally ones with the latter.

And yes, taking care of our own citizens is more important than taking care of the world. The world has begun telling us to mind our own business and we should abide by those wishes. Do we not have a health care system that needs improving? Is our education system not up to par with many of the other industrialized nations? Has our infrastructure not begun showing significant signs to crumbling? We need to look after our own before we go off on a crusade.

Yes, we do indeed have more important things to do than push a pro-feminist agenda upon another culture. They have a HUMAN RIGHT to evolve on their own as they have done so over several thousand years. We had that right to evolve without tampering from outside governments and lobbyist groups, why should we deny them that same opportunity?

[GamerGal]

Not the religion, the males who abuse it. Much like the Church, there are plenty of Christians, the majority even, that act human. But the Church? Who else writes a document declaring pedos as gods and punishes the victims? Who else tells the poorest of the poor in the world how they should act while the Pope sits in a 60billion dollar palace?

And again, saying it it the laws fault that the Muslim Males treat women like shit is like saying it is the laws fault for CHarels Manson being in prison. I mean, if they just made killing people legal he wouldn't be in jail! So down with the laws against murder so Manson can be free! Especially since the majority of people agree and follow the laws against murder. Much like many Muslim MEN treat women with respect and as equals. Oh that's right they should also be punished, how dare they be Men and not monsters!

[lycanox]

Again, you are now essentially blaming radical Muslims that a faulty law to work against them does not work.

That is similar as a politician blaming the bankers for being fraudulent greedy bastards.
But refuses to accept that this is the result of less market supervision and that we need laws to prevent fraud and such. Because it is the bankers fault and not that of the lack of regulation that made the abuse possible.

A law intended to help Muslim woman. But actually makes live for Muslim womans worse. Simply does not work and should thus be changed.
That is simply the irrefutable reality here.

You can complain and blame the radical Muslims for this all you want.
But all you are doing is showing that you don't give a rats ass about those woman that suffer even more due to the laws you support. And have no problems sacrificing them in your silly pissing contest with Islam.

[Cartesiantheater]

As a matter of pure practicality, if your concern is the freedom of Muslim women, you have to admit that the law has made things worse, regardless of who is morally to blame. I do believe that is all Cyran or lyca are saying.

[JenaS62]

Personally I really could give a rats ass about these women. If you want to live like a slave, covered from head to toe and subjected to sharia law by your husband - then go to a country where you will blend in and quit bitching about the laws of the country you chose to live in. Go ahead and stone me. Just being honest here.

[Traveler]

Why not look to the real reason. Millions of dollars spent setting up a surveillance society with cameras on every corner and a whole section of the population walks around all covered up and unidentifiable. The very section of the population you want to identify.

But of course it all has to be twisted into a religious thing when in fact it is all about a surveillance thing.

[Freddy]

This is not a religious issue as the Burqa/Burka is a custom that predates Islam by several centuries. It is not mandated in the Quran nor is it universal in Muslim societies. Muslim men simply use it to control their women and promote inequality between the sexes.

[Rabid1]

Wrong James, dude. This is James Random, that was James Bowles.


My bad. You know what they say all james' look alike, lol.

[Rabid1]

This is not a religious issue as the Burqa/Burka is a custom that predates Islam by several centuries. It is not mandated in the Quran nor is it universal in Muslim societies. Muslim men simply use it to control their women and promote inequality between the sexes.

That would depend how you interpret this:


Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! {Muhammad} Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.


What's best is equal rights and freedom for ALL. Not just men, not just Muslim or Christian, gay or straight, ALL.

The poblem with this is if we have equal rights and freedoms then they have the right to pratice thier religion as they see fit whether we agree with it or not. They also would then have the rights to keep thier women, daughters, wives from shooling or jobs. If the woman is raised in this culture, in most instances, she will not complain because it is thier way. So all things being equal only they should have the right to decide whether it is wrong or not.

[Freddy]

That would depend how you interpret this:
Here is another interpretation of the same verse.

"In the following verse, Muslim women are asked to draw their jilbab over them (when they go out), as a measure to distinguish themselves from others, so that they are not harassed. Sura 33:59 reads:[6]

Those who harass believing men and believing women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad) That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed. [...] (Qur'an 33:58–59)"

[jeanlee411]

I'm not fond of the idea of women being required to wear a burqa...but it is their cultural belief. No one has the right to infringe upon that belief. The more we try to force the issue the more likely we are going to have a serious culture clash that is going to result in terrible violence.

My question is why? Why would you want to hide your wife's face? Middle eastern women are some of the most beautiful on the planet. Well besides the ones here at AO that is.
These arabic dudes are fuckin it up for the rest of us. So I say "NO MORE BURKAS!"

__________________________
Watch Iron Man 2 Online Free (http://moviesonlinefree.biz/)

[GamerGal]

Personally I really could give a rats ass about these women. If you want to live like a slave, covered from head to toe and subjected to sharia law by your husband - then go to a country where you will blend in and quit bitching about the laws of the country you chose to live in. Go ahead and stone me. Just being honest here.

The only problem is they are born as slaves, raised as slaves, and live as slaves. Why do you think so many women who aren't raised by Muslim extremists don't wear them?

Find me an example of a woman saying "You know, I love wearing a sweat suit under two quilts when it is 105 out" in Nevada who was raised Jewish/Christian/Buddist/Hindu/Athiest/Not Muslim. You can't. Some people who convert later in life do wear them by choice sure, mostly so they can keep their husband happy, but they do choose.

But the main point of my OP is that the man says in public he will keep his slave indoors for the rest of her life.


Who here would stay indoors, never allowed outside for any reason, for the next 40-60 years? Because you are considered an animal and not human by your husband/some members of his faith?

[Cyranothe2nd]

Why not look to the real reason. Millions of dollars spent setting up a surveillance society with cameras on every corner and a whole section of the population walks around all covered up and unidentifiable. The very section of the population you want to identify.

But of course it all has to be twisted into a religious thing when in fact it is all about a surveillance thing.

This is surprisingly cogent. And, I think, probably partly true. The other part is simply our own cultural biases and our discomfort at embracing anything outside our own 'norm.' Because God forbid we have to get used to watching someone's hands or listening to their voice rather than looking at their face. Western mores have to trump all.

Jena, I do get what you are saying. But we don't live in a world of little fiefdoms anymore. The world is becoming smaller. That means that people are going to have to find a way to live with each other and accept certain differences (not all, of course. We should never accept, for instance, hard-line religionists who want to treat women as chattel). There are some things that are important to fight for. I don't think this is one of them.

[lycanox]

My question is why? Why would you want to hide your wife's face? Middle eastern women are some of the most beautiful on the planet. Well besides the ones here at AO that is.
These arabic dudes are fuckin it up for the rest of us. So I say "NO MORE BURKAS!"

__________________________
Watch Iron Man 2 Online Free (http://moviesonlinefree.biz/)
One of the theories regarding the burka's is that back then they confused the degrading effect of sunlight to human skin they noticed as a sign that god does not want woman to show their skin.

Resulting in a "If you don't dress up god will make you ugly" idea that somehow mixed up with emerging religious ideas.


The only problem is they are born as slaves, raised as slaves, and live as slaves. Why do you think so many women who aren't raised by Muslim extremists don't wear them?

Find me an example of a woman saying "You know, I love wearing a sweat suit under two quilts when it is 105 out" in Nevada who was raised Jewish/Christian/Buddist/Hindu/Athiest/Not Muslim. You can't. Some people who convert later in life do wear them by choice sure, mostly so they can keep their husband happy, but they do choose.

But the main point of my OP is that the man says in public he will keep his slave indoors for the rest of her life.


Who here would stay indoors, never allowed outside for any reason, for the next 40-60 years? Because you are considered an animal and not human by your husband/some members of his faith?

Again, either stop pretending you care about those woman. And admit you are just promoting that ban because you don't Islam without thinking of the consequences.

Or explain how a burka ban will make things better for them. Despite the fact that yourself posted evidence in your very first post that it doesn't.

[medicvet]

My question is why? Why would you want to hide your wife's face? Middle eastern women are some of the most beautiful on the planet. Well besides the ones here at AO that is.
These arabic dudes are fuckin it up for the rest of us. So I say "NO MORE BURKAS!"

That is exactly what happened..they were overnumberd, and went up the worse possible phenomenon will continue.

Heck, if you go today to there where the Marja lighst are...at least in texas I send, but yes, she has something evil, and no I am not qualified to take care of it. then was the weird part. My cousin Baelynn got a crystal on a chain, and we all looked at that..and she said that at least for a little while we not be like other people, that we would be beyond sentient beings, but those who are build well enough to go into space themselves someday.

I saw the lights right here in OKlahoma three day ago...Called around, only one cop saw it (I was on the phone and hear that the dsipatcher had the speakers on. He said "I swear if you find someone to kick Lups' ass whether he lives or dies, you got only two year. He wins, and gets the two pices, and throwns one at a bret michaels poster. I am getting freeped out becaue Ellen is being super nice to me, and when anyone, nice or not is nice to me, I am not right back.

I know, I know, a beautiful place..

Thanks for everyone..I think I got it narrowed down to three places to move into in August...either a two bedroom home, possbility of owner financings, and all the elderley are sitting in wheelcharis in the hall, and they call that caring for the elderly! Besides peace corps , we need to put out hunders and farmers and sho wthme how to take advantage of the land got gave them. And they need to band to gethr as one nation, and if that happens, let the rest of the world shudder.

[GamerGal]

I posted evidence that Muslim Males are monsters. When told women are equal they just lock them up forever. But again you agree with this for some reason. Even though the majority of the world and even the Muslim MEN disagree with it. But for some reason you think women being locked in cages never seeing sunlight again is a good thing and any laws against it are wrong.

[lycanox]

No you posted evidence that the law you support does not work and even has a severe contra productive effect.And are now completely ignoring your first post, because you don't care about Muslim woman. But just want to whine about the Muslim religion again.

So again, please explain how a burka ban is going to make life better for Muslim woman.
Despite your very first post proves it doesn't.

[Prometheus]

This law is basically the equalivent of a burka ban. Which is often falsely promoted to increase the freedom of muslim woman.

And this is a prime example why it does not work that way.

Lycanox is right!! Italy must allow burkas to be worn - and instead ban muslim males. :bounce:

[Rabid1]

That is exactly what happened..they were overnumberd, and went up the worse possible phenomenon will continue.

Heck, if you go today to there where the Marja lighst are...at least in texas I send, but yes, she has something evil, and no I am not qualified to take care of it. then was the weird part. My cousin Baelynn got a crystal on a chain, and we all looked at that..and she said that at least for a little while we not be like other people, that we would be beyond sentient beings, but those who are build well enough to go into space themselves someday.

I saw the lights right here in OKlahoma three day ago...Called around, only one cop saw it (I was on the phone and hear that the dsipatcher had the speakers on. He said "I swear if you find someone to kick Lups' ass whether he lives or dies, you got only two year. He wins, and gets the two pices, and throwns one at a bret michaels poster. I am getting freeped out becaue Ellen is being super nice to me, and when anyone, nice or not is nice to me, I am not right back.

I know, I know, a beautiful place..

Thanks for everyone..I think I got it narrowed down to three places to move into in August...either a two bedroom home, possbility of owner financings, and all the elderley are sitting in wheelcharis in the hall, and they call that caring for the elderly! Besides peace corps , we need to put out hunders and farmers and sho wthme how to take advantage of the land got gave them. And they need to band to gethr as one nation, and if that happens, let the rest of the world shudder.

Everything ok?

[Prometheus]

So again, please explain how a burka ban is going to make life better for Muslim woman.
Despite your very first post proves it doesn't.


STOP PRESS

LYCANTROLL DEMANDS EVIDENCE


In a startling gush of contradiction, Lycantroll - esteemed internet funster - demanded others produce evidence to support their claims. While the discussion at hand had begun with evidence, Lycantroll astounded the world by disregarding this and instead demanding all the same. A completely hypocritcal request, given his primo propensity for never providing any himself.



When asked to account for this bizzarre behaviour we were told by Lycantroll's pet hamster that he was not answering questions today.

:bondage:

[Cyranothe2nd]

I posted evidence that Muslim Males are monsters.

Really? ALL Muslim men? What a fucking racist and stupid generalization!

[Cartesiantheater]

Really? ALL Muslim men? What a fucking racist and stupid generalization!

Not necessarily racist. Depends on the context.

But a stupid generalization none the less, and certainly hate speech (hint hint GamerGal... )

[DontBeAfraid]

She didnt use the word ALL... cyrano added that.

[James Random]

She didnt use the word ALL... cyrano added that.

It does not change, however, the fact that she does hold this view and has said so on several occasions before now.

The question of the Burqa is a difficult one. On one hand I, personally, would like to see the face of the person I am talking to. But on the other hand I would not like someone telling me what I should or should not be doing with my own culture. I believe that the only way to resolve the conundrum is to live and let live. We fought wars against people like Hitler so people would be free to wear burqa's if they so chose. Why interfere with this?

[GamerGal]

Really? ALL Muslim men? What a fucking racist and stupid generalization!

Notice I did not say ALL, and I said Muslim Males, not MEN. I even clearly stated that Muslim MEN disagree with keeping women as slaves, it is just the Muslim Males who do it. The ones who treat women as property are not Men or Animals, they are monsters, and so I call them Males, not MEN. Reread what I've posted and you will see it. Also, islam is a cult, not a race. It is like me insulting Canadians for eating polar bears and eskimos while fucking penguins and calling it racist when Canadian is not a race.*

Also, women who are forced to wear burqas don't choose, they are forced. From birth they are brainwashed by Muslim Males that they are property/animals and must do as they say. WHen they get older they believe this is true. Which is why you will never see a Christian/Jewish/Buddist/What ever woman in Nevada saying "Gee, it's 120 out, I better throw two quilts on top of my sweat suit and sweater and heavy winter coat." Because they weren't told from birth that they are no more then property.

*I know they don't really fuck penguins but still, making a point about the different between race and some thing else.

[Yobihome]

I love the "culture" argument. Inevitably it feeds back on itself and self-destructs.

"Culture" can used to justify anything. But where is the line drawn? And it always IS drawn.

A good historian might look back on American slavery - for example - and give a non-judgmental account (good luck finding one though). He might describe the culture, much as an anthropologist would, without applying the standards of his culture - at least as best he could.

But if we were to transport the modern "culture" argument back to 1850 we would have to conclude that the Abolitionists were overbearing, interventionists, cultural imperialists, war mongering, and altogether "wrong" . Similarly, we could dismiss Southern slave-holding as just part of their "culture" (by the standard of cultural forgiveness we have set for ourselves).

We would likewise be compelled to approve of the Carib's diet, condemn the British annihilation of the Thuggees and cheer "re-education centers" (where ever may be).

But, of course, we do apply our standards, standards that could generally be called "Western." Unfortunately, "Western" ideas have been much in flux the last two hundred years. Even the notion of liberty to the extent of "harm no other" is recent and untested by history. And it arguably may only be appropriate for Western peoples.

The culture argument falls flat because 1) it is ultimately nonsensical because 2) it is itself a cultural expression. You will find this expression (tolerance, multiculturalism, la dee da) utterly absent in Islam. Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the West and there is NO "moderate" version of it which holds any hope of compatibility as long as the despicable Koran is guidebook and its psychopathic prophet is hero.

In case you haven't noticed, "moderate" Islam in the West spawns radical Islam. Which is to say in agreement with Wilders, there is no moderate Islam. There is radical Islam and complicit Islam. There is radical Islam and hibernating Islam. With a now generational exposure to our (self-described, of course) enlightened ways, Islam has not, will not, integrate into the West.

"Multiculturalism" is one of our current cultural moors (forgive the pun). But this new idea won't last because it cannot last without destroying. The irony of multiculturalism is that it destroys the very object of its supposed veneration - either by assimilation or outright conflict. Look around the world and through history to find resounding confirmation.

The West has not yet the stomach for the "solution" to these problems of cultural incompatibility. The options are few and still unpalatable.

1) halt immigration
2) encourage or compel assimilation (bye bye Islam...)
3) repatriation
4) convert everyone to Islam

Take your pick. Any of them mean the end of multiculturalism as an ideology. Just as well - it had zero chance of creating its social bliss of co-equal cultures living in Utopian harmony.

It's tragically funny; that cultural incompatibility which is the greatest threat to the West is our own ideas, our own creation. We may yet save some of our recent epiphanies, like 'liberty', but multiculturalism will not be among the survivors.

Islam understands hegemony - how to get it (any means necessary), how to keep it (internal policing by radical thugs) and how to defend it (external violence, intimidation). If the West does not (re-)acquire a similar hegemony in its own sphere, then there will be no "West" in the future - but, hey, we WILL have a long and bloody "celebration" of multiculturalism.

On the other hand, the 21st Century is going to be ugly for other reasons - reasons that may preempt the need for making hard decisions.

[bluenose_ian]

Islam has not, will not, integrate into the West.


I agree and for those who want to see a glimpse, check out my last post on is it racist in ethics and morals section.

What worries me is the rising population and changing demographics, I didnt want to see it, but their women and wombs are also used as weapons to mass produce.

It seems the west need to produce 6 to 10 kids each to keep up.

[GamerGal]

Great point Yobihome. We look at slavery with disgust but back then it was just "The culture." Lyc looks at Muslim slavery of women and has no problem with it.

In Muslim culture sex with children is ok. Ayatollah Kohmeni even said fucking toddlers was being a good Muslim, and was know for raping 4-9 year olds and "married" a 12 year old. But the western world and Muslim MEN say this is wrong. But I guess we should just let the Muslim males in to a preschool and rape little girls in America, Italy, England, because back in Saudi Arabia it is ok.

[Yobihome]

There are, of course, many decent Muslims, "men" as you say. Probably most at any given time. But they are decent by virtue of their humanity and in spite of their religion. But their children do not necessarily inherit tolerance.

An anecdote. In high school I knew an Iranian exchange student. He could not wait to get back to Iran to take part in the Revolution. Thirty years later I met an Iranian woman who had fled the Revolution. She was marginally Muslim and "Western" in her outlook. But her lament was that her son was a hell-bent Wahhabist - enough to earn the interest of the FBI.

Radicalism jumps generations in Islam. One generation wearies of it, the next picks it up. It bubbles, constantly, out of "moderate" Islam. Sleeping Islam is the source, the wellspring of radical Islam. I see little reason to distinguish between the two when there is little to indicate that either will change to accommodate Western sensibilities.

This is not a new, or modern, phenomena in Islam. It has been there from the beginning.

This author takes issue with the recently popular idea of Islam's early "enlightened" period.

The Library at Alexandria (http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/05/the_fate_of_the_library_of_ale.html)

Excerpt:

The account states that the caliph, when informed about the [library], declared that if the books it contained agreed with the Koran, then they were superfluous, and if they disagreed, then they were heretical. In either event, they were worthless and should be obliterated. The books of the Library were put to the torch -- used to heat the palace baths.

------------------


But I guess we should just let the Muslim males in to a preschool and rape little girls in America, Italy, England, because back in Saudi Arabia it is ok.

Well, as many faults as we Western men may have, we do have a peculiar and permanent solution for such males...

[lycanox]

Great point Yobihome. We look at slavery with disgust but back then it was just "The culture." Lyc looks at Muslim slavery of women and has no problem with it.
Again, stop pretending you give even one singly bit about this woman.
This whole time you are protecting measures that will only lead to further enslavement of women. As you yourself has proved in your first post.

So. Again.

Please explain how a burka ban will improve the living conditions of Muslim woman. Despite clearly shown other wise.

And stop turning around. It is becoming more and more clear that you by not answering the question, have completely no idea what you are talking about. And that you are only doing this debate to give you an excuse to rant about Islam again.

And that in reality it is you that gives no crap about Muslim woman and are the woman hater here. Not me.

[Storm]

We are all slaves, to a lesser or greater degree, to something or someone.

[James Random]

I agree and for those who want to see a glimpse, check out my last post on is it racist in ethics and morals section.

What worries me is the rising population and changing demographics, I didnt want to see it, but their women and wombs are also used as weapons to mass produce.

It seems the west need to produce 6 to 10 kids each to keep up.

Quite agree. I see evidence of this belligerent refusal to integrate with the west every day in my neighbourhood. Some refuse to learn the english language even after years of having lived in Britain and some are quite rude too. Not all - but some.

I was in the co-op a couple of days back and this muslim fellow approached the girl behind the till counter and said to her 'topup' in a sort of short gruff tone that indicated he wasn't about to say please.

She sort of gave him an odd look and he repeated himself. 'Topup.' More irritated this time

She then had to ask him 'which network?'

HE said 'Orange. Topup orange.'

Again this information is of little use to anyone. He repeated himself again angrily.

She said 'how much?' He said 'ten pounds'.

After he'd pissed off I said. 'Gee. Is it me or was that guy just a complete fuckhead?'

She argued that perhaps he wasn't able to speak english very well. I countered that this was irrelevant as the guy could clearly say the words 'topup, orange and £10' and it wasn't rocket science to put the three together in the right order in a single sentence. It wasn't lack of knowledge of english - it was sheer ignorance.

I have found that wherever you find Muslim people you find large communities living together. Why? Because then they don't have to rely on anyone other than each other. Microcommunism, in a fashion. And I have discovered, often, that they don't like white people (once dated a muslim girl).


Sikhs can also be included in this. They are not as much of an extreme in the view as muslims people but they still don't like white people. This, however, is more to do with hardcore traditionalism than it is racism. They'll quite happily socialise and work with westerners, but they do not - in any capacity - want westerners mixing with their families.

But I will, at any given opportunity, say the same thing to muslims and sikhs as I say to people such as the author of this thread (in general): If you fancy the human races chances in having a future, it's time to realise that we should just all get along. Get rid of this stupid notion put upon us by the Elites that we are, somehow, all so different we shall never be able to get along. Get rid of this silly notion of territories and such as the like and declare the EARTH as the common heritage of all people.

After all; when you've reduced this planet to a radioactive cinder after fighting over territories, oils, resources and what have you and there is nothing left of the Earth. Where do you plan on living?

[Yobihome]

And then there's the safety issue...

Death by Burka (http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/04/09/13527496.html)

[James Random]

We really need some Muslims on AO. :)

[Prometheus]

Radicalism jumps generations in Islam.



To be entirely fair, that's not a trait of muslims, rather a trait of humans. :wink:

[JenaS62]

And then there's the safety issue...

Death by Burka (http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/04/09/13527496.html)



I'm sorry. I'm sick I guess, but that struck me as kind of funny. Who the hell would ride a go cart in a burka??? Perhaps there should be new Olympic sports - burka swimming, burka bob sledding, burka ice skating. Ok I'll stop now.

[GamerGal]

Ror, and I was surprised, in Saudi Arabia women are executed for holding car keys not just driving, but even holding car keys. But it was in Australia so maybe her husband was a MAN who loved his wife. Not a male who had property, but a MAN who loved his wife and let her have fun, went on dates. Although the Burqa... But a MAN could keep her in a Burqa because of the Males who would behead him and his wife if she didn't wear it.