Is Eve To Blame?

[repentantsinner]

When Eve suggested to Adam that he eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil could she have been thinking along the lines of; " Wow, this angel of light just told me I'd know evil when it came for me. I won't be hurt then. I love Adam and just have to let him in on this". Or could she have been thinking something like; " That #$@*&^ devil just lied to me. I can't wait to disobey my creator, get kicked out of paradise, bring death,disease, ruination, and despair on myself and my descendants. While I'm at it I might as well drag my only companion, Adam, down with me". Is she really to blame?

[stewey]

I dont think Adam and Eve were real. Just a story about why there is bad in this world.

[DarkAce]

The theme of women being inferior and to blame for various things seems to be a common theme throughout the bible.

[dutchie]

The theme of women being inferior and to blame for various things seems to be a common theme throughout the bible.
...and various other religions, I might add.

Women to blame: it is clearly the man looking for a scapegoat to blame the world's misery on..

[Moishe3rd]

Eve was never told not to eat of the fruit. Adam was.
The serpent was simply another of G-d's Creations, why woudn't Eve trust him?
When G-d asked what the hell was going on, Adam blamed Eve ("Whom You gave me") and Eve blamed the serpent ("Who You created") and the serpent said "Hey, what do you expect G-d? I'm a snake. You created me."

The story is about blame. And lying. Not about "original sin." Or the evils of women.

It is an archetype of how nothing is ever My fault. It is always the fault of G-d; or mommy and daddy; or the government; or my wife or husband; or my children; or that person down the block; or my cat; or Johnny Carson; or even George Bush.

The story is about the disease of victimology. The sin is the sin of not being willing to take responsibility for your life and your actions.

The penalty of victimology is to suffer - forever. Until you decide to stop being a victim and do what has to be done.

[dutchie]

So why didn't G-d (??) allow Eve to prolongue her stay in Paradise indefinitely then, and just kick Adam out?!? Seems very unjust... Or was she just meant to be a childbearing vehicle in the eyes of the Almighty??

You give it a nice twist, but IMO it's still meant to make woman into "the nigger of the world", to use an old John Lennon quote...

[Moishe3rd]

Eve was equally responsible for trying to shift the blame.
It is all about not taking responsibility for your actions and your life.
You are responsible - not G-d; not your wife and husband; not your kids; not your boss; not your environment; YOU.
By putting them out of the Garden, G-d enabled them to reap the rewards and failures of taking responsibility for their actions.
In the Garden, equipped with the knowledge of Good and Evil, they could be bad and take no responsibility, as they did when G-d confronted them.

In the real world, you always reap what you sow.

[VegasRonin]

Its all God's fault. You don't put two children in a room and tell them they can touch anything they want except this. That's the first thing they're going to touch. :Bdevil:

[40oz]

If you took the "good book" literally ever person on earth is a man, women came from man "the rib of adam" however a WOman is a man that has a WOmb. Likewise a FEmale is a male that carries a FEtus. It wasn't a women that started the whole ordeal but ManKind (woMANkind) It was iniquity http://www.wordiq.com/dictionary/iniquity.html ....Kinda like "The potential" to commit sin, Iniquity combined with free will was the proverbial downward spiral of the spirit Man/woMan. Whether you take it literal or not, My opinion is it is meant to teach a lesson, or perhaps provide an understanding or even an explanation. No one can *prove nor disprove the actual fact, so it is in a sense a gateway for argument.

*I am referring to scientific proof

[dutchie]

Yeah, witty lingual twists... Let's see if they still work in Turkish. It might be MY illiteracy in the English language, but in my mind Fetus should be spelled Phoetus. There you go.

As for scientific proof: The fact that SO MANY religions have overlapping ideas about the way mankind (not so kind, BTW.. heh heh, I can make lame jokes too!) came into this world, is IMO proof enough that is total :bs:

Sin is an abstract idea. What is sin in the eyes of one group of human beings is completely accepted in the culture of another. Every culture has its own definition of sin and of God. Proving that both God and sin are manmade, abstract ideas.

[Moishe3rd]

Sin is an abstract idea. What is sin in the eyes of one group of human beings is completely accepted in the culture of another. Every culture has its own definition of sin and of God. Proving that both God and sin are manmade, abstract ideas.

Perhaps.
Is random murder for the sake of terrorizing people not a sin?
Is raping a child not a sin?
Is deliberately betraying a friend not a sin?
Is not telling the clerk that she undercharged you not a sin?
Is deliberately causing pain to an animal merely because it turns you on not a sin?
Etcetera.

We are faced every moment with moral choices.
Should you lie or tell the truth?
Should you kill or not kill?
Should you cheat or not cheat?
Should you disobey the law or not?

What keeps you from sin but the moral code laid down by whom?

[dutchie]

I base my choices on what to do on my love of people. Do I sin?

[playmaker88]

As for scientific proof: The fact that SO MANY religions have overlapping ideas about the way mankind (not so kind, BTW.. heh heh, I can make lame jokes too!) came into this world, is IMO proof enough that is total :bs:

Sin is an abstract idea. What is sin in the eyes of one group of human beings is completely accepted in the culture of another. Every culture has its own definition of sin and of God. Proving that both God and sin are manmade, abstract ideas.

Probably the best, most sensible post I have ever read. God and religion are SO man-made. :respect: The future is bright, the future is orange.

[playmaker88]

Should you lie or tell the truth?
Should you kill or not kill?
Should you cheat or not cheat?
Should you disobey the law or not?

What keeps you from sin but the moral code laid down by whom?

I follow my own code. Never killed anyone, never cheated on my partner, haven't been arrested since 1993. You don't need to have a belief in God or have a need to follow a religion to be a "good" person. Common sense tells me the less people I annoy, do harm to, make enemies of, the easier my life will be.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Also, in order to blame "Eve" or anyone like that, one would have to have "them" as in Adam and Eve in their belief system. Since there is no "original" sin, beginning of sin, or actuality of sin, (crime yes) in the beliefs I engage in, no harm no foul.

[AnimeFreak]

Originally Posted by DarkAce
The theme of women being inferior and to blame for various things seems to be a common theme throughout the bible.

Women aren't really treated equally still now a days....
Look at other countries like Mid East, Africa , and EurAsia.....
Is anybody ever wondering men are mostly mention the superior race in the bible and in modern times?

[repentantsinner]

I think the moral of that story is not to listen to the whiperer when he gives you a "good" idea :guill: "There is a way that seem right but only leads to death"

[dutchie]

Repentantsinner, I an totally clueless as to what the hell it is you're on about. :confused:

[40oz]

I would think he is referring to Satan "whispering" or tempting someone, But I have been wrong many o times.



Ya see, thats how you reply to a post civilized. No need to send you a barrage of names and insults

[dutchie]

Did you really say that to ME??

[repentantsinner]

Very astute of you 40oz/ that ia exactly what i was talking about. I read that the "serpent" of the old testament comes from the greek word "naschesch" which means whisperer. He comes as an angel of light with "good" ideas like I really deaerve to get revenge, of sexual fantasies, or i can steal this thing just once etc. Pride is certainly a common way he sets people up for a fall. :liar:

[dcookcan]

This post is for those who 'claim' to believe in the Bible. The rest of you can go to Hell. (Hehehe :grin just a little pun.)
I think a little review is in order.

Gen 3:1-6 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"
The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Was that what God actually said? Back up just a little.


Gen 2:16,17 The LORD God (17) commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it (18) you will surely die."

There is a very subtle difference between what God commanded and what Eve said He commanded. God gave the command to Adam; Eve was not present. We can assume that Adam passed on the information, but in that passing of information something was added - or touch it. This was not part of the command. (BTW The Jews are very good at adding to what God commanded.) Whether Adam added it or Eve added it does not matter; Satan recognized that Eve did not know what God actually commanded and saw the opportunity to deceive. Eve touched it and did not die, so she ate it also, then fed it to Adam.

The responsibility lies with Adam not properly teaching Eve what God actually said; Eve was not to blame.

[repentantsinner]

Lets say Adam was told he would die if he ate that fruit. It is also written that adam lived to be 930 years old. Does not make sense at first untill we come to the scripture that says one day to god is like 1000 years and 1000 years like one day. So in essence Adam did die the very day he ate the forbidden fruit. That God let him live so long only reinforces my belief in a mercifull God. Also the curse for original sin is death, which will happen to all of us, not hell like in some other threads on this forum. It's only my experience but it seems God goes out of his way to reach people who are in real trouble, and does not rejoice in punishing his "finest creation". In the end each makes his/her own mind up on what to believe and has their own personal fate.

[mickydoolittle]

edited in the hopes of actually attaining progress

Why must there be someone or something to blame in the first place?

What is hoped to be achieved via casting blame?

Where is that finality intended to bring you as a person in your life's journey?

It really shouldn't matter as it is eon's upon eon's later and life is short enough as it is so why bother wasting energy on trying to figure out who or what to cast blame upon.

Live your life and if you honestly require that blame be cast, try looking in the mirror and decide whether you really want to worry about such a petty occurance as this. I'm sure you'll quickly decide the answer and move on with life.

It doesn't matter at all.

[dutchie]

Sin, Guilt, Blame and Punishment are the pillars of religion, Micky. It's playing on the conscience of people to get them to follow the rest of the sheep.. Always threatening with eternal damnation, the punishment on sin....

It's depressing really. :ohmy:

More and more I get the feeling religion was invented just to make peoples lives so miserable, that they start longing for the afterlife. It's taking the focus off from life and joy and love, and putting it on death, misery and guilt.

[Defiant Noquisi]

There has been research in Africa regarding the roots of religion. It was very interesting and there is a book out about it now but I cant remember who it was written by. Ill email a freind and find out. Basically it says that because all peoples in the earliest of ages were all tribal, their "beliefs" were a spiritual part of their culture, not a seperation or organization. The seperation (and then the following subjugation) began to occur when the "class" systems of wealth came into being. The theory goes that religion was invented as a means to exploit the spirituality of man and use it as a tool of subjugation and class enslavement.

According to the above theory, there might not have been an "EVE". Therefore, it would be the fault of humans.

[repentantsinner]

It could be the fault of humans, it seems part of human nature to sometimes look for a "scapegoat". One thing i believe is that there is no human alive who can always avoid/ stand up to temptation. Personally i've fallen for it more times in the past than i care to admit to, therefore "EVE" can not justly be "BLAMED">

[dutchie]

According to the above theory, there might not have been an "EVE".

:rgrgrg: Did we finally find someone to blame, and then she doesn't exist...

No seriously, of course there never was an Eve. The whole creation thing is a myth.

[evilwill]

The whole idea of the human race spawning from two people is complete idiocy. Hence my rejection of such... But for the sake of the thread, I'm sure it was Eve's fault.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Now now youngster, its not Eve's fault that Adam was a spineless jellyfish. :bs: :D

[dutchie]

he was only spineless because god needed some bones to manufacture the woman... :crazy:

[mickydoolittle]

One thing i believe is that there is no human alive who can always avoid/ stand up to temptation. Personally i've fallen for it more times in the past than i care to admit to, therefore "EVE" can not justly be "BLAMED">

Why deny the very essence of being human? Embrace your humanity, enjoy your hedonistic tendencies, and live your life as you see fit; instead of how some alleged servant of god orders you to act.

You are not as bad as you are led to believe.

You should not be made to feel guilty over acting as you are inherently intended to act.

Forget what religion teaches (read as brainwashes) you, and go on about living. Life is indeed far too short to worry about what some group or individual thinks of you. They don't matter and they never will.

Who honestly gives a fat baby's ass if there is one person to blame? Again, life is far too short to worry about this--if it happened at all, it was so long ago that time has marched on and on and on and no one should give two seconds of their life to this question, let alone an entire thread. :ohmy:

[Defiant Noquisi]

he was only spineless because god needed some bones to manufacture the woman... :crazy: My son just brought up an interesting point, think of all the people that committed incest to procreate since they were all siblings at the beginning.

[dutchie]

You're not gonna tell me you believe any of that BS, are you?!?

[Defiant Noquisi]

No, but consider the age in which the thought came from. From his view, it was a good point and I agree with the validity of his statement, in his view.

[dutchie]

OK. Understood. And yes, it's a clever kid to come up with such a thought. :thumbs:

[evilwill]

My son just brought up an interesting point, think of all the people that committed incest to procreate since they were all siblings at the beginning.

That ties in with the human race spawning from 2 people. There lies the fundamental problem with it, are well all one big happy family? I think not...

[playmaker88]

The sign of an intelligent child is one who questions the validity of the things that they are taught.

[Defiant Noquisi]

The sign of an intelligent child is one who questions the validity of the things that they are taught. Yes, he is very intelligent. I just wish he wasnt so arrogant when questioning. :wink:

[mickydoolittle]

Yes, he is very intelligent. I just wish he wasnt so arrogant when questioning. :wink:

Arrogance is the sign of greatness. I would know.

See DN, your boy is an AMERICAN true and thru.

:wink:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Of course he is, hes Cherokee and Mexican, cant get more "American" than that. However, the arrogance and disrespect to elders needs to dissappear at a high rate of fuel consumption. :D

[midnightsonblaze]

The whole idea of the human race spawning from two people is complete idiocy. Hence my rejection of such... But for the sake of the thread, I'm sure it was Eve's fault.

EW.......completely agree with you here.....I find it quite idiotic myself that the whole human race came from two people....but think of it this way.....if it was to be true.....incest happened obviously......secondly......we are all brother and sisters....thirdly.....that might explain why the human race is so retarded....


:yikes: