A question for all you "Conservatives"

[Sirius]

Exactly what do you conserve? I'm pretty sure it's not the enviroment, and with the patriot act, i'm extremely sure it's not our civil liberties. And with the tax break for the rich, it's not money, so what is it really?

[stewey]

What do liberals liberate? Surely not the Iraqi or Afghan people.

And what the hell is up with Garfield's name? He aint a gar or a field. Damn him!

[DontBeAfraid]

LIberals liberate the american people from unjust majorities and from government oppression (patriot act).

[OrioN]

How are you oppressed in your every day life?

[DontBeAfraid]

thanks to liberals, im not

[OrioN]

Any proof on that would be appreciated. It's been my experience that both sides are for larger government.

[Shockwave]

Exactly what do you conserve? I'm pretty sure it's not the enviroment, and with the patriot act, i'm extremely sure it's not our civil liberties. And with the tax break for the rich, it's not money, so what is it really?

I think it's quite obvious to the casual observer that this post is incendiary in nature, but I'll take a crack at it.

First, your reference to "conserve" is incorrect. In any discussion it is important to get the facts straight. Conservatism is defined by Webster's online dictionary as this:


Pronunciation: k&n-'s&r-v&-"ti-z&m
Function: noun
1 capitalized a : the principles and policies of a Conservative party b : the Conservative party
2 a : disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change
3 : the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change

Regarding the environment, I would be happy to respond if you could cite some specific examples.

As far as the Patriot Act is concerned, perhaps you should look up who actually voted for it. I bet you'll find the support was overwhelming and bipartisan in nature. Whether it was a good idea or not is certainly up for debate, however you can't pin this one on conservatives alone.

You are also way off base on the "tax break for the rich". Let me share an explanation of the situation with you from a fellow who has a PhD in economics:


Tax Cuts -- A Simple Lesson In Economics This is how the cookie crumbles.

Please read it carefully. Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1

The sixth would pay $3

The seventh $7

The eighth $12

The ninth $18

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59 So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." So, now dinner for the ten only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?" The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being "PAID" to eat their meal. So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:

The fifth man,like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings)

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings)

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings)

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man "but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all.

The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. There are lots of good restaurants in Europe and the Caribbean.


David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D

Distinguished Professor of Economics
536 Brooks Hall
University of Georgia

What are conservatives all about? I think they basically want to preserve what has worked to get us where we are today. They aren't always the first to embrace change, and that's why liberals are thought of as more progressive by most. In your search to define conservatism, I would be careful of confusing conservatism with the Republican Party because the two aren't necessarily the same thing. ;)

[Conservative Front]

Conservatism, in a literal sense which seems to be, what you want. Would be defined something like this.

We Conserve on Government (smaller less powerful)

We Conserve on Money{tax} (We Don't want the government stealing are fruits so they conserve the money of working and upper class people).

and Conservative could also mean in the way we present ourselfs, Up standing and respectable. unlike the hippie counterpart come on who could take someone with Months and Months of unwashed hair, Hemp all over there bodys and peace symbols sewen into there clothing oh not to mention is to drop acid...*/*

We Conserve changes and laws (Less laws, less change to the consitiution)

We Conserve Family values. (Family values should remain strong)

We Conserve on Traditional Values. (Man works Woman Care taker **)

Thats about all i'm going to post on this you get the idea now.

**unrealistic now but would be nice.

*/* yeah yeah yeah I realize liberals are more upstanding now but I was using it as a means of comparision...

[stewey]

LIberals liberate the american people from unjust majorities and from government oppression (patriot act).

What about the liberals that are for the Music Industry going through peoples harddrives to sue them for mp3 sharing? And name one person that has been oppressed unfairly by the Patriot Act. Oh no, Abdul was seen reading a book called "Killing Infidels by Suiciding Bombing" and has been arrested. Cry me a river. You do know, that everything the Patriot Act allows, has been allowed for the past several decades, right? Just now it is in writing.

[AngelTV]

I find people who label themselves either Liberal or Conservative tend to be extremist basing their lives on their unbalanced views. Most people I think would tend to find themselves somewhere in between, agreeing to both ways of thought depending on the circumstances.
A brief summary of the wrongs of each.
Liberalism. The selfishness of not conforming to moderate views. Believing that the educated and/or intelligent individual has the right to stand above societies rules. Rules that are made for those of less intelligent or wisdom, mock the liberal thinker, for they are self aware enough to choose the right from wrong. They have the ability to transcend above the "normalality" for they believe themselves to be intellectually elite. They are elitist in the intellectual sense. They forget they many are not as "intelligent" as they. That their idealogies are based not on reality but a world where everyone is as gifted as they in morality and wisdom. So producing a world where the uneducated mind is given the freedom of choice that it has not yet earnt.
Conservatism. The ignorance of change and progression. To stagnant in a comfort zone because they are afraid to face the fears of changing their views of tolerance and ideals. They think that if they are content why change something that is obviously working for them. They are dragged along the path of human progression by the gathering momentum of human freethinking. They are unprepared to accept anything but a stereotypical existence based on their principles and values. They would stifle any opposition because they fear what is on the other side of the door.
The majority of us, fortunately, are moderate thinkers and therefore sit and watch the banter. Unfortunately, sometimes we are dragged into the debate without choice and suffer because of it.

[stewey]

They're just names. Just like a "drive way" is no where to drive, but a "park way" is no where to park.

[dutchie]

AngelTV, my man!!! Long time no see!!

Thanks for your post.. although I must add that your wrong is that you're generalizing unbelieveably in this post...
I was just about to warn those gathered here, that I dont want to have any dirtthrowing in this thread.

[AngelTV]

Thanks Dutchie, Missed you in Europe. Sorry buddy. Extremely busy and always on the move. Promise next time.
Yeah I know it was extreme but I think that is the point Dutchie.

[dutchie]

Well, if you advocate moderate thinking, then why are you bringing you POV in such an extreme way?

BTW I refuse to part the political world in just liberal and conservative - there are other streams as well.

[Emerald_Dragon]

>As far as the Patriot Act is concerned,
>perhaps you should look up who actually voted for it.
>I bet you'll find the support was overwhelming and bipartisan in nature.

from what i've heard/read, it was passed during the Anthrax scare. IMO, they were too scared to read it and pretty much passed it to save themselves from terrorists. which were never found...once the Anthrax clues led to Ft. Dietrick instead of Iraq as initially reported. I'm sure one could read 300+pages in less than 2 weeks time, but considering it was distributed and voted on, the same day, i think not. Am I correct? Look it up, you might be surprised.

i'm sure it was 'overwhelming', if Anthrax-laden letters were mailed to my offices, i'd pass it pretty darn quick. Didn't the offices of 2 Democrats receive them? What happened to Wellstone?


>Let me share an explanation of the situation with you from a fellow who has a PhD in economics:

your friend with a PhD in Economics works on assumptions. He doesn't realize the difference between the reality of the tax cut vs. the theory of the tax cut. Where M1 and M2 help make M3. Besides, its a progressive tax table, made to tax more from those who can afford to be taxed.


>Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy,
>and they just may not show up at the table anymore.
>There are lots of good restaurants in Europe and the Caribbean.

can you get me his email? I'd like to converse with him. I think he's confusing micro-economics with macro-economics. Does he know that we're no longer on the gold standard, which would have supported his traditional theories?


>And name one person that has been oppressed unfairly by the Patriot Act

its kinda hard to name them when they are not allowed to contact anyone, and leaking their names could be considered a threat to national security. but if memory serves, there was this guy that worked for Intel or Microsoft, who was detained by it in Guantanemo. Then there's this guy who was oppressed/arrested per the Patriot Act at the Chicago O'Hare airport.

And then there's the fact that the FBI can check out what you've checked out at the local library. And the part where they can check your home while you're not there without a warrant. Or the part where you're not allowed legal representation if you're a suspect.

so no, i can't name anyone who's been oppressed. if i did, i'm sure i wouldn't be able to post anymore.
:D

[Shockwave]

from what i've heard/read, it was passed during the Anthrax scare. IMO, they were too scared to read it and pretty much passed it to save themselves from terrorists. which were never found...once the Anthrax clues led to Ft. Dietrick instead of Iraq as initially reported. I'm sure one could read 300+pages in less than 2 weeks time, but considering it was distributed and voted on, the same day, i think not. Am I correct? Look it up, you might be surprised.

i'm sure it was 'overwhelming', if Anthrax-laden letters were mailed to my offices, i'd pass it pretty darn quick. Didn't the offices of 2 Democrats receive them? What happened to Wellstone?

Well, it is the duty of our elected representatives to understand the bills for which they cast their votes. I have little sympathy for people who get paid six figures to do nothing but let staffers give the the "Cliff's Notes" version of bills.



your friend with a PhD in Economics works on assumptions. He doesn't realize the difference between the reality of the tax cut vs. the theory of the tax cut. Where M1 and M2 help make M3. Besides, its a progressive tax table, made to tax more from those who can afford to be taxed.

can you get me his email? I'd like to converse with him. I think he's confusing micro-economics with macro-economics. Does he know that we're no longer on the gold standard, which would have supported his traditional theories?

First of all, he's not an acquaintance of mine. Otherwise I'd be happy to oblige you. Regardless, I fail to see how your references to the gold standard, M1, M2, and M3 have anything to do with anything. I don't understand the point you are trying to make. It seems to me that you have failed to make the case how it is "correct" that those who have worked hard to make a living somehow owe more than those who haven't. The American dream is to work hard to make your dreams come true. The fact this "progressive" tax system penailizes those who actually produce and create jobs seems a bit harsh. After all, poor men don't give people jobs. ;) The bottom line is that the far left always screams the "tax breaks for the wealthy" mantra and it just isn't factual. If more people had basic math skills, perhaps this wouldn't be an issue.

[Conservative Front]

Dutchie, I agree with you on this accutally I too believe there are more then just Liberals and Conservatives out there. (although the majority of people in America can be separated by either Left-Wing Liberals or Right-wing Conservatives) Now, I do however believe there are more or less 4 categories for each indivual Political Idealogy Left-Wing Right-Wing South-Wing and North-Wing.

Left-Wing- Liberals,Socialist,Communist,Green, and Democrats... (plus some more but i'm too tired to think of all the names right now)

Right-Wing- Republicans,Conservatives,FarRight Conservatives,etc...

North-Wing- Libertarians,Anarchist,Black Flag Anarchist, R & A,etc...

South-wing- Authoritarians,Totalitarians,Imperialism,Ultralism ,etc...

Plus off the chart practicals non-existent but can fall into any of the above. Monoarchys & OglaArchys. (maybe Left/Anarchist)

I think those above (besides Monoarchys and OglaArchys) are the major political affilafations. Read Political Idealogy Dictionary volume 1 & 2 theres alot more but those are the ones still in existence today for the most part.

---end response to Dutchie---


Even if the patriot act was signed by democrats who inturn would like too see it eradicated. In my opinion they can't claim ignorance's that they where scared into signing it. Wouldn't you agree that it'd be there duty to read through new bills? If they just sign off on something with out accutally reading it then thats just the problem there going to have to live with ignorances is no excuse.

---end response to Emerald Dragon---

[LC Jeffries]

Hi Angel,

How you doing? It has been a long time. Good to here from you again.

I agree, most people find themselves in between. I lean though a little towards liberterism.

Yet I strongly believe many conservative points.

My lib views are for less Fed's in the States Government. agree, I believe each side is pushing for more Government control. I see more and more government control over our lives and our individual freedoms. To me it's part of the New World Order plan to control the live's of every 'CITIZEN' of the world.

The BEAST, over in Europe is being programed to do just this very thing.

My Conservative side does not believe in Gay marriage. I don't believe in abortion. Abortion is taking the life of an infant. I believe life begins right at conception.

Yes I understand the view that women would get abortion's no matter what. So yes if they are going to have one, then they need a good doctor to do the service. Not back ally abortionist. also believe that a woman who has had an abortion needs special counseling. She also needs special care as far as her physical health. Many times women who have abortions get very sick.

What makes me angry is the women who use abortion as a form of birth control. Sometimes having as many as 5 or 6 abortions at a time.

I feel if a women is being funded by the GOVERNMENT (Medicare) to get her abortions, I say after the 2nd abortion she should by law have her tubes tied, not permantly, but temporarily until the day she is mature enough to really be ready to have a child and raise him or her.

As far as gay marriage, God created marriage between Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. I'm not their Judge. What they do is between God and themselves.

I don't want the lifestyle though, pushed on to my kids or my family. That has been the true agenda of the movement over the past couple of years.

[midnightsonblaze]

As far as gay marriage, God created marriage between Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. I'm not their Judge. What they do is between God and themselves.

I don't want the lifestyle though, pushed on to my kids or my family. That has been the true agenda of the movement over the past couple of years.

If God was accepting as it says he/she is in the Bible(FORGET LEVITICUS) then marrying between male/male female/female would be accepted by God....because in reality those people love each other and that's what God teaches.....

As far as gays/lesbians pushing their agenda on people...you are totally off base with that comment....my Aunt is a lesbian and her and her partner don't push their ways on any person.....if there is anything that is being pushed for....it is recognition....just like african americans....they want equal rights(gay marriage)...which is right....if people love each other they should be able to marry no matter what....!


:shot:

[LC Jeffries]

You can't put aside part of what God has written, because you don't like it. He is firm about this particular act. And yes there has been a strong push in the schools to force children to be taught that the Gay lifestyle is acceptable. Many people don't accept the life style, and they teach their children that it is wrong. And because Christian's and even none Christians alike don't like the lifestyle, they are considered evil. It's getting to the point now that it is illegal to speak vocally against the life stye around different parts of the world.

I have a cousin who is a Lesbian and She and her partner don't push the agenda. I don't hate or disown her because of her lifestyle. They live a quiet life and they have the same rights as any other American. They've even adopted 3 beautiful children. They where able to do so, whereas many heterosexual couples are still struggling to adopt children. They do have the same rights as every other Ameican, Accept for Marriage. And if One truly believe that God accepts their love, then they should believe that they are considered married in the eyes of God.

We have a Gay Pride parade in Atlanta and some of the things you see at this parade, you would not see even straight couples do in public. It's like skid row and I'm sure that even many gay couples would not expose their kids to this public spectacle.

I don't believe in Gay marriage or the lifestyle. That does not make me evil. To me it's unnatural and not the way nature intended us to be.

But as I said that's between God and them. I have no real say in the matter. I just have my point of view.

[substand]

first, don't get conservatives confused with republicans. Even scholarly literature identifies at least 4 different types of "conservatives" who voted for reagan... also don't get libs confused with dems...

but the thing i've found it best to describe like this:

liberals and conservatives are best defined in how they wish to spend other people's money- liberally or conservatively.

...........

its kind of like asking "what exactly is pro-choice?" (though i think to a lesser degree). Are "prochoice" people pro-choice when it comes to owning a gun, using drugs, or choosing schools? No, of course not, for the most part. They are only pro choice when it comes to abortion.

[dutchie]

You can't put aside part of what God has written, because you don't like it. He is firm about this particular act. And yes there has been a strong push in the schools to force children to be taught that the Gay lifestyle is acceptable. Many people don't accept the life style, and they teach their children that it is wrong. And because Christian's and even none Christians alike don't like the lifestyle, they are considered evil. It's getting to the point now that it is illegal to speak vocally against the life stye around different parts of the world.

I have a cousin who is a Lesbian and She and her partner don't push the agenda. I don't hate or disown her because of her lifestyle. They live a quiet life and they have the same rights as any other American. They've even adopted 3 beautiful children. They where able to do so, whereas many heterosexual couples are still struggling to adopt children. They do have the same rights as every other Ameican, Accept for Marriage. And if One truly believe that God accepts their love, then they should believe that they are considered married in the eyes of God.

We have a Gay Pride parade in Atlanta and some of the things you see at this parade, you would not see even straight couples do in public. It's like skid row and I'm sure that even many gay couples would not expose their kids to this public spectacle.

I don't believe in Gay marriage or the lifestyle. That does not make me evil. To me it's unnatural and not the way nature intended us to be.

But as I said that's between God and them. I have no real say in the matter. I just have my point of view.
Lori, here's a message from the European Beast. (WTF?!?!?) First you talk about God condemning gay marriage, then you say it is unnatural, and then you mix in some politics, as if the Europeans are dictating the way your morals should be in future. Which of these is it gonna be, Lori?

Gay Pride Parade?!? That's a 1,000 guys and girls having fun - granted; it's not your idea of fun. That's a tip of the iceberg. The rest of all the gays STAY AT HOME, and mind their own business. Why would you want to deny gay people a lot of legal rights you yourself value as normal? Because God says so? (where does he say gay people can not get married?)

In nature homosexuality is far more common than among humans, I can guarantee you that!! Ask any biologist. So does nature condemn homosexual marriages?

No, the truth of the matter is that you can not accept other people's preferences, because from your upbringing you value them as "queer" (literally). You chose to label the love of other people for eachother. You deny people equality.

Where is the Christian Love in that?

BTW, enlighten me about the European Beast remark, so I might stop heating up...

[LC Jeffries]

This is a little off the topic. But the Beast which is perhaps an Urban legend or not is supposedly in Belgium. What it is is a Super Computer that can keep track of every single person in the world. I'm not sure if this topic has been covered here. It proboly has been.



From the Art Bell Show from 6-23-98, He says that the govt has super computers in place called BEAST (Battle Engagement Area Simulation and Tracking, linked to GPS), which may replace the outdated computers in the year 2000, which uses a chip placed on the hand or forehead. The chip is powered by galvanic skin response, and the forehead and hand change temperature the most. The chips are called MARC (Multiple Automated Readout Computer). After global economies unite (including US, N and S America, Russia, Europe) the only ones left out would be Islam and China. Then massive wars would be fought to bring them into the worldwide economic system.

There are other storys and rumors about this Beast, in which I believe either exsist now or will soon.

This is what, I was talking about. As I said off the topic. This may need it's own thread.

[LC Jeffries]

first, don't get conservatives confused with republicans. Even scholarly literature identifies at least 4 different types of "conservatives" who voted for reagan... also don't get libs confused with dems...

but the thing i've found it best to describe like this:

liberals and conservatives are best defined in how they wish to spend other people's money- liberally or conservatively.

Quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Substand I agree with you on that one. :wink:

[LC Jeffries]

Dutchie,

I Love you too. :love:

But that does not mean I have to like what you choose to do with your life. I look at things though with two points of view. Theirs and mine. That's not political. Thats listening and hearing. Then saying what I think and feel.

I love my cousin, but it does not mean I have to accept her lifestyle or agree with how she lives. Last time we saw each other was the last time we had with my Grandparents as they celebrated their 50th anniversary. They both died within 3 years, yet we shared a very precious moment with them. We had fun and enjoyed simply being with family.

[DontBeAfraid]

So Subs.... Clinton was a conservative and Bush is liberal?

[Defiant Noquisi]

and Conservative could also mean in the way we present ourselfs, Up standing and respectable. unlike the hippie counterpart come on who could take someone with Months and Months of unwashed hair, Hemp all over there bodys and peace symbols sewen into there clothing oh not to mention is to drop acid...*/*

We Conserve on Traditional Values. (Man works Woman Care taker **)

Thats about all i'm going to post on this you get the idea now.

**unrealistic now but would be nice.

*/* yeah yeah yeah I realize liberals are more upstanding now but I was using it as a means of comparision... So why not use more recent comparisons like you did with the "Traditional Values" comment? This is why I have a hard time respecting your view point, you twist comments and use strange facts to try and prove your point. For you to even bring up that old news to me is strange since you werent even a gleam in your mother's eye when hippiedom was in full swing. There is no sense or value in you using a current description for a conservative and an outdated description for a liberal. Adding the little disclaimer at the bottom does nothing to disprove what you had already posted above it, only deleting it and rewording it would.

As far as "traditional values" goes we will always butt heads on that. I enjoy the right and the freedom to persue a career without the help of a male. I enjoy being self sufficient and able to care for my child on my own. I take pride in that I can do that and still enjoy a relationship with my child as well as participate in school functions and after school activities he is involved in. I take pride in being a valuable and contributing member to society. What you dont see (or maybe dont want to accept) is that I am capable of BOTH being a mother AND also setting an example for my child regarding work and contribution. Would you take that from me? Would you take that from my son who thinks his mom is one of the coolest people on the planet?

The best part for me is that I can WANT a man in my life, I dont HAVE to live off one to survive. For any woman that wants to stay home and raise her children I have the deepest respect in the world. I choose not to and quite to the contrary, I go nutty staying at home. I LOVE to work! :grin

[Conservative Front]

I think if women want to work thats fine. I don't have a problem with it. I'm just more of a believer in traditional familys, I think men should be the provider and women the care taker however I wouldn't take away the rights of women to work or pursue, any career they wanted too. I don't have a problem with that at all infact, I would much rather see a single mother working and supporting her child then being on the system with a social program. So in short, yes I do believe women should have the right to work and pursue a career Just in my life Id prefer a more traditional family.

---end response to defiant---

[Defiant Noquisi]

Thats why we have choice! There are many women out there that would choose to stay home and raise a family rather than trying to do both and I commend them for it. It's sad that for quite some time society viewed women who stayed home as "lesser than" when in truth it is just as difficult a job as a career outside the home. Much the same as women who broke that glass ceiling of working outside the home.

Unfortunately, much blame is placed on women such as myself for working outside the home as responsible for societies ills when in fact all of society has changed, not just the focus of women.

[substand]

So Subs.... Clinton was a conservative and Bush is liberal?

Well, Bush might well be called a liberal under my previous post... I'd say he's certainly much more to the left than to the right when it comes to my value judgments on what government should do... but I don't know if I'd go as far as saying Clinton is a conservative. He may have declared the era of big government over, but he also raised taxes and sought to spend a lot of peoples money in things like socialized medicine... so he's also be a liberal under the "how liberally or conservatively they seek to spend other people's money," just as bush is.

[LC Jeffries]

Because of the direction of this I felt this was a good place to post this.

Men be forwarned, this is not for the light at heart.

THE NEXT SURVIVOR SERIES
> > > > > Six married men
> > > > >
> > > > > will be dropped
> > > > >
> > > > > on an island with
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 car
> > > > >
> > > > > and 4 kids each,
> > > > >
> > > > > for 6 weeks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each kid plays two sports
> > > > >
> > > > > and either takes
> > > > >
> > > > > music or dance classes.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no access to fast food.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each man must take care of his 4 kids,
> > > > >
> > > > > keep his assigned house clean, correct all homework,
> > > > >
> > > > > complete science projects, cook, do laundry, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The men only have access to television
> > > > >
> > > > > When the kids are asleep and
> > > > >
> > > > > all chores are done.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is only one TV between them
> > > > >
> > > > > and there is
> > > > >
> > > > > NO REMOTE
> > > > >
> > > > > *****
> > > > > The men must shave their legs,
> > > > >
> > > > > wear makeup daily,
> > > > >
> > > > > which they must apply themselves,
> > > > >
> > > > > either while driving or
> > > > >
> > > > > while making four lunches.
> > > > >
> > > > > *****
> > > > > They must attend weekly PTA meetings;
> > > > >
> > > > > *****
> > > > >
> > > > > clean up after their sick children at 3:00 a.m.;
> > > > >
> > > > > make an Indian hut model with
> > > > >
> > > > > six toothpicks,
> > > > >
> > > > > a tortilla
> > > > >
> > > > > and one marker;
> > > > >
> > > > > *****
> > > > >
> > > > > and get a 4-year-old to eat a serving of peas.
> > > > >
> > > > > *****
> > > > >
> > > > > The kids vote them off the island, based on performance.
> > > > >
> > > > > *****
> > > > > The last man wins ........
> > > > >
> > > > > only if ..............
> > > > >
> > > > > he has enough energy to be intimate
> > > > >
> > > > > with his spouse at a moment's notice.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the last man does win, he can play the game
> > > > >
> > > > > over and over again
> > > > >
> > > > > for the next 18-25 years ...
> > > > >
> > > > > eventually earning the right to be called
> > > > >
> > > > > **************
> > > > > ***"Mother."***
> > > > > ***************

We all, moms and dads deserve a big :bearhug:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Hahaha! That was cute Lori! I think the stay at home dads have it worse though. They get discriminated against for being "guys". I would LOVE to find a stay at home dad to be my partner so in essence, I agree with CF but with a reversal of the sexes. :D

[Conservative Front]

I don't really see a problem with stay at home dads kind of a reversal of the traditional values I hope to obtain someday but to each there own as long as no ones on social welfare Ill support stay at home dads. (hell Ill be a stay at home dad once I win the lottery and have a kid :smokin: )

[substand]

about "stay at home" moms or dads... i think its more about the children than anything else... its been shown (see http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/family/danquayl.htm for some info) that families with 2 parents work better than anything else... that normally means a stay at home mom and a working dad, though in the past several yrs that is less true.

[Defiant Noquisi]

That link smacks of "Murphy Brown" and I havent even looked at it yet. LOL

[substand]

it does mention murphy brown breifly in the first part.

[Defiant Noquisi]

it does mention murphy brown breifly in the first part. Good, now get yer behind it the chatroom! :Blbl:

[humanhybrid]

I was a single dad for 7 years and worked while my son went to school. I also in the courts won sole physical custody with joint legal. It was the best years of my life. Me and my son learned to surf, among other things. It was great! good day!

[Defiant Noquisi]

I love being a single parent. Our time is ours, no one to have to ccordinate with. I dont have to check in with anyone. And just as you did with surfing, we cant do and learn as we please on our schedule. :thumbs: