Reasonable Creationism: God the Inventor, not God the Painter, not God the Engineer

[Cartesiantheater]

So we observe some evidence for evolution that traditional creationists reject: genetic evidence (like human beings having a chromosome that has telomeres in the center, when they should only be on the ends, and a vestigial centromere, hard evidence that suggests two chromosomes fused together- and in fact the exact location was discovered in the Chimpanzee genome project, showing how the common ancestor had 24 pairs of chromosomes, explaining why humans have 23 pairs- something that MUST be there if evolution is true, and if it isn't there then evolution is false, and lo, it was there. More here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_%28human%29#Evolution)), fossil evidence, evidence in labs, and just on and on and on. Mountains of it. Tons of evidence for almost every branch of the theorized evolutionary tree (including scores of transitional fossils, despite the false claim made by traditional creationists).



However, all this overwhelming evidence for evolution that traditional creationists deny could ALSO be interpreted (although not in a scientific sense) as evidence for a creator who likes to tweak things, and then modify things, and then tweak things some more.




Suppose that unlike the Painter/Sculptor God, in which God artistically fashions things the way he wants them, forever immutable, and unlike the Engineer God, who designs everything in one fell swoop, God was instead an eccentric inventor, who thoroughly enjoys coming up with new ways to alter previous inventions.



Suppose God creates some starting life, then takes a portion of that life, and modifies the genetic code ever so slightly. Suppose he wants to see multitudes of variations on his creation, and as a result he continuously tweaks genetic information, creating similar but slightly distinct creatures.


Obviously this God would also have to be very much a stickler for order, as he never tries extremely radical changes in short periods of time.





If you hypothesize that, you have all of the evidence for evolution explained in a Creationist light. In this scenario, the "fact" of evolution is explained by the eccentric Inventor God who takes pleasure in finding new ways to alter old creations, and the "theory" of evolution by natural selection is thus replaced (by this non-scientific hypothesis).



Presto! Creationism/evolution conflict solved.






But of course, the Fundies won't even consider this possibility, since they for some reason believe God created all life at once, even though the Bible specifically lists an ordered creation process.


But a thought, nonetheless.

[Ningishiddza]

Some people may have seen this, but it deserves another post because it's a total riot and he's one of my heroes. If god is an inventor, then he's more along the lines of a "Ronco Pocket Fisherman."

FNiTsYCkyI8

[Nu Kua]

Symphony of Science (http://www.symphonyofscience.com./) is a great project, putting these learned peoples words to music. This is one of my favorites, always makes me feel a little exhilarated. Who needs to believe in magic, when reality is so exciting?

XGK84Poeynk

[johnBeeone]

There is Much to be learned also and Putting Love always on it and Passion appreciation on what we are doing good always make us understand more deeply Proverbs 4:7

1 Corinthians 13:13
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Love is Great

[Reef Badlaw]

Ya forgot 'fractals', CT... and the possibility that a Creator can create creation.

[Waymarker]

SCIENTIST QUOTES

"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question."- Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): The Universe: Past and Present Reflections. Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics: 20:16.

"There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming"- Paul Davies (British astrophysicist), The Cosmic Blueprint: New Discoveries in Nature's Creative Ability To Order the Universe. New York: Simon and Schuster, p.203.

"As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?"- George Greenstein (astronomer),1988. The Symbiotic Universe. New York: William Morrow, p.27.

"When confronted with the order and beauty of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it."- Tony Rothman (physicist),Paradigms Lost. New York, Avon Books, p.482-483.

"When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics."- Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics), 1994 The Physics of Immortality. New York, Doubleday, preface.

"We know that nature is described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created it."- Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician),Gannes, S. October 13, 1986. Fortune. p. 57

"Here is the cosmological proof of the existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one"- Ed Harrison (cosmologist),Harrison, E. 1985. Masks of the Universe. New York, Collier Books, Macmillan, pp. 252, 263.

"Who created these laws? There is no question but that a God will always be needed"- Barry Parker (cosmologist),Heeren, F. 1995. Show Me God. Wheeling, IL, Searchlight Publications, p. 223.

[Anarch]

Symphony of Science (http://www.symphonyofscience.com./) is a great project, putting these learned peoples words to music. This is one of my favorites, always makes me feel a little exhilarated. Who needs to believe in magic, when reality is so exciting?

XGK84Poeynk

Pac3etGh0st was the first one to introduce me to that epic vid...

Sagan.... He's the man!

[Waymarker]

Don't forget everybody, the universe is a cold dark colourless place, not a bit like the colour-enhanced long-exposure hubble images.
In fact it's a downright boring place and the only reason atheists worship it is because that's all they've got..

[Anarch]

Do you worship your mom?

She was your creator no?

Well her and your dad... so if you worship the creator then that means you're polytheistic right?

[MHz]

If a bird of the skies falls into water and can't (or doesn't want to) take off again and it adapts to life on water with diving for food the means of support. Millions of years pass and birds and them look quite different. Is that evolution or adaptation controlling the changes that will have taken place?

Species jumps aren't promoted as being the seed of life for all the 'other flesh' that God created. The one heavenly being could have been the original for 4 different species. Each is said to have 6 wings (sub-species) and 'many eyes' being variances within each species. (Vs:8)

Ge:6:20:
Of fowls after their kind,
and of cattle after their kind,
of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind,
two of every sort shall come unto thee,
to keep them alive.

Re:4:7:
And the first beast was like a lion,
and the second beast like a calf,
and the third beast had a face as a man,
and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

[Cartesiantheater]

Define "kind" in a scientific way, if you want to consider that an alternative to evolution as a scientific theory. If not, no big deal, but "kind" is still hopelessly ambiguous. What "kind" was a velociraptor? Was it a bird, like its skeletal structure and feathers (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070920145402.htm) suggest? Was it a reptile, like its teeth and jaws suggest? Or are birds and reptiles each descendants of the same "kind?"

[dedanoe]

"Reasonable Creationism: God the Inventor, not God the Painter, not God the Engineer"... me is inventor for sure with certificate (https://sites.google.com/site/dedanoeinnovates/home/excessive_turbo_generator), how does me get to know if me qualifies for The Godhood Title? otherwise, me likes God as inventor better than any other God. let me ask one thing to be noticed "mathematics defines how things work and technology is how that mathematical model is applied" so God inventor and God mathematician are almost the same thing.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Cartesiantheater and thank-you for your desire for examination into these matters,

The human desire is to place everything into a box and assume that everything stays the same, one of the wonders of the world that we live in is that nothing ever stays the same and nothing ever returns to it's previous state but everything evolves, the question we must ask is what is the point of this evolution. Let us say that God the engineer organized genetic markers in such a way as to control and allow for changes to the species based upon the environment, these same markers placed limitations upon cross speciation by eliminating reproductive potentials in the hybrids.

Your idea of God the inventor is quite a fascinating one and I believe when we examine all the evidence closer, it becomes clearer that the engineer has worked such intricacies into the equation giving an impression of an inventor at work, whose handy work is so diverse and yet clearly ordered from the beginning that has no beginning. We have a long way to go in stepping out of these boxes of understanding that we have placed everything including God the Painter into, examining the physical evidence of the world around us, moving passed myth and superstition; and accepting that which is reasonable in lieu of that which has become acceptable.

One of the great abilities we have as human beings is that of overcoming our environment and it is incumbent upon each and all to evolve our understanding and seek and search till all ignorance has been overcome and the Truth can be revealed, the greatest barrier to this is the understanding of faith, for faith is an action of being steadfast to that which you know to be true and is most definitely not blind adherence to that which is unreasonable.

Darwin studied the brush stokes of the painter and concluded that species changed based upon their environment and those intrinsic qualities that he was not able to explain, did he write God out of the equation?

Clearly from his writings he did not and this is most evident from the concluding sentence from Origin of the Species, we all need to examine his words and the evidence that he presented to form our own conclusions or else we are just as guilty of blind faith as those that adhere to that which they can not explain and do not desire to for fear of being unfaithful.

[Rockytrawn]

I am reminded of a rather bad joke about Engineers

Three engineers were discussing religion, one was a mechanical engineer, one was an electrical engineer, and one was a civil engineer.

"Look at the human body", said the mechanical engineer, "Look at the rotating joint in the arm", God was a mechanical engineer!"

"Look at the nervous system," said the elctrical engineer, "God was an electrical engineer!"

"No, he was a civil engineer!" "How do you figure that!?"

"Who else but a civil engineer would put a septic system right in the middle of a great recreational area!"