My contribution thread:Question on eveolution

[40oz]

I have a few questions to evolutionist, my stance on the evolution vs creation is rather mingled. Meaning I think they could "both" be a factor in organisms as we know them. However, a few questions come to mind regarding evolution. I realize there are numerous threads on this subject but not getting to the root of my personal questions. My first and probably a common question (asking here to have a quick reference and easy way to find *this thread) 1st. Why, if humans have evolved from apes, have the apes stopped evolving? I am asking from a curiosity stand point (I know someone will take that the wrong way and explode with I am not "schooled" in evolution, which is correct and is why I ask)2nd. If the premise for evolution is that all organisms evolved from the same origin or same source. Then how is it there are so many different creatures on earth? Seems like if we all evolved from one creature, then we would all be the same end result of evolution. Why would different species decide to "break away" and evolve into something else? If humans are at the highest level of evolution so far, then why is there anything other then human beings?

Its simple really, People that do not believe in a higher being would not belive in creation. And vice versa. I believe in a higher being, yet I believe they coincide with one another. For instance why an animal would mimic another to appear poisonous or fearsome. Understand I am ignorant on the subject and more curious then anything else.

Last but not least, any good links to study the subject? So I can better arm myself :nudge:

[40oz]

blank blank blankity blank blank.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/bio99/bio99001.htm

good read, not for the hardcore Evolutionist though..

[dutchie]

Well.. clap clap clap clap clap to that, 40oz. Must have taken you some time to decide to post it in the wrong forum, too. :respect:

[prezhorusin04]

40oz. i too believe in both creation and evolution.
Most people don't see them both as the same, because they are going by the strict dogmatic standards of their religious view, and we're following the Darwinian standards for evolutionary traits with is an incomplete theory as well..

Religion itself has evolved from its early stages, though it would seem that the core brain and backbone for religious concepts and purpose has stayed the same..Religion adapted and changed to better fit different areas and peoples..Different purposes though common relating myths..Such as dark VS light, Death and Resurrection (especially of the savior god), worship and honoring of ancestry and bloodline, sacrifice.

As well the religious ideal of "God" has changed with time too..From An, Marduk, Osiris, Ra,Zeus, Tammuz,Apollo, Yahweh (Yah is the Egyptian moon god by the way.), Odin, Thor, Quetzelcoatl, Jupiter, and many more, while "evolved" from the prior, all share the same common themes and story structure.-The same social/spiritual purpose and meaning..Just told in different times and ways,.

This probably stems from the Elite priests and Kings who gave religion to the masses, and their self vision of perfect and exalted beings..It also serves to blind the public form true knowledge of our origins.
The point being, religion evolves just as much as science and life, but they deny it to serve their own purposes.-

1st. Why, if humans have evolved from apes, have the apes stopped evolving? I am asking from a curiosity stand point (I know someone will take that the wrong way and explode with I am not "schooled" in evolution, which is correct and is why I ask)

Perhaps the apes haven't stopped evolving. I'm sure there have been new emegerging species of primate in the past 10,000 years, as well as species who became extinct. The greater and more dramatic the natural/climatic/planetary changes, the greater the space for potential leaps in evolution..Mankind evolved at it's greatest time in the space of 200,000 years to 10, 000 yearsBC. That's a pretty long time space for evolution, and it is where Neanderthal becomes homo-erectus. Records show that they they existed at the same time, and somehow, natural or war, Neanderthal was assimilated, killed out, or starved. Neanderthal seemed to live more in the low lands and valleys, while homo-erectus lived in high mountain ranges.

This period of the most of humanities so called evolution took place during periods of ice-age, and great flooding.Making the needed process of adaptation increase in order to survive.

Maybe the more complex a biological species is, the longer it takes for evolutionary changes to take effect. This complexity stems from both material structuring, as well as mental capability.The life cycle of the species would come into play here as well, as faster life cycles would pass the evolutionary code off more quickly to future generations.
This is why it might take humans to evolve over many thousands, or tens of thousands of years to show any obvious physical or mental change, while species of plant and insect might show adaptive changes within a few generations.

Of course there are a great many variants for what can cause adaptation and evoltionary differences. Environment, diet, altitude, sunlight, discovered "sciences" such as making tools, utilization of fire, ect, ect..(I'm told that having THUMBS helps things along nicely!)


2nd. If the premise for evolution is that all organisms evolved from the same origin or same source. Then how is it there are so many different creatures on earth? Seems like if we all evolved from one creature, then we would all be the same end result of evolution. Why would different species decide to "break away" and evolve into something else?

This question is kinda answered in the above statements i think..Perhaps we all evolved from the same life source, but it was variations and deviations of the original substance.Even the initial "life force/essence" of Earth was evolved differently, coming from different climates, altitudes and depths, Being heated at different temperatures. The water is thought to have been a sort of "embryonic sack" for this substance of life. Algea, single celled organisms, plant life and sponges. And this all began on earth at an estimated few billion years ago, with the first emergance of fish and fowl and lizard at 350million years ago or so. With the first dinosarurs at 200million years ago. The first primates 100million years ago.

Personally, i think that EVERYTHING evolved from single celled organisms, plant life, and different colored orbs of floating/living energy. Maybe all things of Earth stem from this early "trinity" of life.

[40oz]

Thanks for the info prez, I will continue to study the subject matter.

[40oz]

Well.. clap clap clap clap clap to that, 40oz. Must have taken you some time to decide to post it in the wrong forum, too. :respect:


Well, I'm not fully "evolved" yet :D

[marglarg]

4oz ... Firstly I'm not schooled in evolution either so you'll get no blow up from me but this is what I think .. most of this is rehashed from what prezhorusin04 has stated.

In response to your 1st question. Evolution usually occurs of thousands of years so its not to say that apes and the like are 'not' evolving as we speak. Remember evolution is not some sort of controlled or choice driven event in that creatures usually evolve through random mutations. Sometimes over long periods of time and others quite suddenly.

eg. I remember a story about birds on an island, lots of similar species but slightly different. One particular breed of the same species of bird came to have stronger beaks than the others. When food sources where very low, the only source of food was hard nuts thereby ensuring the survival of that particular breed and not the others because only the hard beaked birds could crack the nuts.

This also leads to the answer behind your second question. Probably, and I say probably, as the first signs of life begin to arise on earth, they may not have come from 1 single place. One theory suggest that life may have arrived here via a comet or impact event which could have spread the primordial life over a large area. Being located at different geographical positions may have led to different mutations and hence this may have led to the myriad of different species we have had in the past, aswell as to the current day.

Remember that life doesn't 'choose' to evolve one way or the other. It occurs through random mutations which sometimes might favour a species and sometimes it may not.

This is also not to say that we have had no external influence in our evolution either. I for one believe in itelligent life which has made contact with us in the past and to the current day. It is yet to be seen what impact they have had on our evolution ... :confused:

[40oz]

Thank you for your reply Marg, However one thing I still cant figure out. I've been trying to read more about evolution since my first post, but what doesn't make sense to me yet is, if a lifeform can simply evolve to make things better for its species, then why are there any struggles at all concerning survival? Or are all the creatures on earth sure to hit a state of nirvana in the distant future. (providing we make it there) To sum it up, If my ideal of what evolutionist think evolution is, then we are somewhere in the beginning or middle period of evolution as we are not yet without struggles. Disease is prevalent in humans, animals, and plants. But wait! Those disease's are lifeforms to right? Maybe there just evolving as well? Its a race for the ultimate evolution..
Are animals on earth finished evolving according to evolutionist? Or are we all still changing? Once again, I believe in a certain type of evolution. I don't know what its called or even if its categorized. I think an animal can adapt and overcome its environment, i.e. a fish that spits to catch insects. Animals with woodland patterns on its fur. Insects with large eye spots on there wings. Glowing deep sea fish. SEA SNAKES! Anyways, i'm on pilgrimage to understand this, so don't be to quick to shoot me down :confused:


**The hole monkey/man thing is confusing to me because the ultimate goal of evolution is to gain and sustain a better species. Then why is an ape still born an ape when there are human beings all over the place? Evolutional loophole? don't the apes know we made it yet? :D
I guess what I mean is that evolution "MUST" encompass all organisms in order to be factual. The ape theory doesn't smell right in that the linage of apes (from one starting point) could not have broke apart and diversified, one evolving into humans and one staying apes, In order to evolve into a human there had to be benefits, what of the branch that didn't evolve? Or is it that they are in between ape/human evolution? Late bloomers? That would still indicate a branching history of the animal, and given the complexity of evolution we cannot even be sure they are evolving into humans.

I still come to this conclusion in the end "what animal wouldn't benefit from flying?"

[DontBeAfraid]

Evolution has no goals... it is not always a change that would be an "improvement" in our eyes.... its just change that makes survining more likely than it used to be.... Unless there is feirce competition between the old and the new they can both coexist.... Just becuase one ape gave birth to a smarter ape once and that ape was able to pass the smart gene on to its offspring doesnt mean that all apes are giving birth to smarter offspring.... evolution is mutation, not some driven force.... just chance.

[playmaker88]

Thank you for your reply Marg, However one thing I still cant figure out. I've been trying to read more about evolution since my first post, but what doesn't make sense to me yet is, if a lifeform can simply evolve to make things better for its species, then why are there any struggles at all concerning survival? Or are all the creatures on earth sure to hit a state of nirvana in the distant future.

Don't underestimate the negative impact that humans are having on other species abilities to evolve. As was touched on by your good friend Dutchie in another thread, the impact of humans means that animals are becoming extinct in relatively short time periods as opposed to over hundreds of thousands of years.

The destruction of their habitats are happening too fast for them to have time to evolve to the changes they will need to make to survive and move on. Evolution cannot keep up with the pace.

The state of nirvana will never reach fruition because the environment and the rules change and therefore evolution will continue. (GIVEN TIME). No other species in history has had as much impact on its environment as humans. No other SPECIES is as responsible for as much extinction as humans, be it directly or indirectly.