Specific Survival Prep: Economic Meltdown

[GP100]

Given everything in the U.S. / World of late, I am thinking it's time to gear preparation more for a severe economic collapse. I.e., while I'll have a bug-out bag for a nuclear attack still handy, it's probably time to focus more on the most likely scenario.

That said, what do you all think the best preparation is for a severe economic collapse? I don't think worrying about hordes of cannibals will be the key here!

I think:

-> Bugging in is favored over bugging out
-> Defense weapons should be geared toward fighting robbers as opposed to gangs of looters
-> Food preps are super essential, not because stores everywhere will be closed, but because prices will be ridiculously high.
-> Stocking up water is a good idea, but I don't think you'll have to watch your back for gangs of thugs while you hit the river to resupply.

And:

-> The good news: of all the possible crap scenarios, this one is ideal because we can see the writing on the wall now. Time to act, ahead of time.

What are our thoughts?

[Anarch]

That said, what do you all think the best preparation is for a severe economic collapse?




Be handy. A jack of all trades. Make yourself indispensable for the knowledge you possess.




-> Bugging in is favored over bugging out
-> Defense weapons should be geared toward fighting robbers as opposed to gangs of looters
-> Food preps are super essential, not because stores everywhere will be closed, but because prices will be ridiculously high.
-> Stocking up water is a good idea, but I don't think you'll have to watch your back for gangs of thugs while you hit the river to resupply.

And:

-> The good news: of all the possible crap scenarios, this one is ideal because we can see the writing on the wall now. Time to act, ahead of time.

What are our thoughts?

Bugging in is good if you know your neighbors...and I mean really know them. Just as much as they could help you so to can they turn on you. Desperate people do desperate things. If your bugging in with your neighbors make sure they don't get desperate. Helping them helps yourself.

When it comes to defense..The random robber is one thing... Gangs in cities are another...You can only do your best...

Food preps... Food preps are important... If your not collecting food from food banks and local churchs you might consider starting doing that. They give out lots and lots of canned goods, box milk, lots of long lasting staples...it is a cheap way to stock up..Heck you might even feel compelled to help pass out some of the food...

Water... Clean water is more important then anything...Yes stock up on 10 gallons min. Buy yourself some good filters like a "zero" filter or a berky. I hear great things about that berky...then again anyone that listens to Coast to Coast has heard all about Berky. BUt yeah water.
Stock up, make sure you got means to purify or distill. Boiling aint enough when your getting it from the river because God only knows whats in that river...AND NEVER TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT. Treat your water stockpile like you would treat a marijuana grow. Do not tell a soul.
What your neighbors don't know about they can't get jealous over.


Trading is also important. I hope your a non smoker. If so I further encourage you to buy something like 10 cans of bugler hand rolling tobacco. Yeah it may cost 40 bucks a can. So you may not want to buy it all at once. The point being with ten cans... When the trucks stop running and smokers are going insane ..some of them will trade their souls for a smoke. VICE. It is a powerful trading tool...

[pico]

While I would encourage bugging in as stated above, without proper training, any neighborhood watch will eventually likely be broken apart if things do go way south. I am thinking it is far better to be in a small town of no more than a few thousand, or in an outlying village with a central town being the hub. A 100-500 village will likely maintain order, and can respond without having to have a debate over every issue at hand.

The best thing you can do for water is to have rain barrels. If you do not own your own property, all is not lost. Having a large tarp that can be staked and channeled to the rain barrel can work. Get the plastic 55 gal. barrels and daisy chain them together using PVC to have multiple barrels from a single downspout. I have a total of three barrels at the moment setup on 2 downspouts. I plan on getting another 5 barrels, and basically have overflow valves on 5 barrels where the overflow from the collection point drains to the barrel next to it, and so on down the line. This one location is closest to my garden, but my garden is still around 100 feet away. I have a solar panel that charges my dewalt cordless drill, and a water pump that I have setup uses the cordless drill for power, which pumps water at a faster rate versus gravity.

I wish my roof was metal, as I would be able to collect the water and really only need to remove the bird shit and light materials. The asphalt shingle roof works well, but I have lots of grit in the bottoms of the barrels. Berkey filters are good, but expensive. Cheaper than dirt sells a build your own water filter, but they can't ship to Iowa for some reason... likely it is not guaranteed to filter out everything, and the progressives won't have that.

Consider getting a Katadyn pocket micro water filter. You can filter a lot of water with something that will really fit in your pocket. They are pricey at over $200, but they are very effective at removing the nasties from water.

While tobacco is a vice that will make some simply go nuts having to quit going cold turkey, I think it is already on the way out for most of the US. It is alcoholic beverages that will be sought after, as alcohol have many uses. Learn how to make your own hard cider and beer. Cider can be turned into vinegar for cleaning, and obviously can be used in medicines and pleasure drinks. I made a hard cider from simply adding 3 cups of white sugar to a gallon of motts apple juice. I put in a package of wine yeast and had a very high alcohol content drink. It was very warming, but did not taste all that great. Still, it has uses if you live in colder areas to know how to make this stuff.

If you live in a brick home, your weakest point of entry will be the exterior doors and windows. Having sandbags on hand that you can use to block access points is a good idea. Cinder blocks will work, but dirt should be packed in the voids to stiffen them.

[GP100]

Sand bags are a really good idea. I am in a brick building but could use those to fortify windows and sliding doors. I'm on a budget, so any cheap ($17 at home depot for 50, just checked) but high impact solutions I seize on pretty quickly.

Speaking of cheap, back to the water issue. In order to front load before a disaster (you'll never be able to stock up enough water, you'll need to go get and clean a bunch), I've bought 45 of these:

http://www.nestle-watersna.com/NR/rdonlyres/4CD860C6-2D74-4789-A0B5-5A28AD6CA0A2/10892/IM_Product_Group_One_smlr.jpg

You see those 3 liter stackable ones. I've got them stacked three high in the corner of my side of the closet (only way my wife lets me get away with it).

That's about 36 gallons of water I have stocked in very, very little space. I highly recommend em. Total money spent, $45.

[pico]

Where do you get those water jugs, as the ability to stack them is a definite plus.

[tahn1000]

in the event of a severe economic collapse, creditors will come running to your door. unless you are in a strong financial position (as in own your own home, credit cards under control, the car paid off), you stand to lose assets very quickly (possibly along with your job as businesses foreclose) including being kicked out of home.

so if you have a car that is paid off, fill the boot space with water and non perishables (i don't mean canned food, i mean dehydrated stuff and other foods literally without a use by date), one or two good blankets (more if it's a family), a windup radio and two wind up torches, and a first aid kit with basic medicines, creams etc and first aid book. there's probably other stuff, but i can't think of more right now.

and just about everyone has a suitcase somewhere in the house just taking up space or filled with stuff they don't want to throw away. empty it and fill it with the same stuff, and in that one put a waterproof wallet with photocopies of your identifying documents. anyone who can't prove where they are from is likely to find it near impossible to even get charity.

oh, and theres specialised bottles with their own filters now that will even filter clean water from mud. one of those in each location plus a couple of extra filters. water isn't going to be a problem, clean water might be. and in order to avoid potential sickness from bacteria in the tap water as the city runs out of funds and starts neglecting infrastructure, every drop you drink should be filtered.

[GP100]

Target or any standard grocery store, happily.

They look like this:
http://d27vj430nutdmd.cloudfront.net/8221/24571/uploads/user_uploads/1241534/COMP_01_526_61_616_231.jpg

Should be anywhere from $0.99 to $1.12 per.

Though a different brand, this is the idea:

http://www.foodbev.com/writeable/uploads/images/2009/07/08/6706_aci3l-300maxw-250maxh.jpg

I can vouch that they're perfectly secure and stable three high (my layout for 45 is 3 bottles high, 5 bottles across, 3 bottles deep. Takes up half the floor on only one side in a small closet.

[GP100]

in the event of a severe economic collapse, creditors will come running to your door.


To do what? They can't break the law. They can't call up their debt beyond terms that were agreed upon.

[tahn1000]

you default on a single repayment, or even if you need to delay it by a few days, when the big fall happens and you might learn different.

on top of that, renters will be in a precarious position as landlords try to secure more rent to save themselves.

[pico]

Actually, I remember speaking with my now deceased aunt who lived thru the depression. She remembers the bank manager not doing any of the sort with regards to her mortgage, as they could not do anything with the property if they could have taken it back. The many banks will simply be SOL. Creditors would have to start a war with the US to reclaim their funds, which can't and won't happen. That is the least of my worries, and I would suggest those in debt not to stress over this. What you should worry about is the FED raising interest rates, which in the event there is not an economic collapse, leave those heavily in debt screwed.

[tahn1000]

i don't know what the value of the american dollar was during the depression, or whether the US government was actually bankrupt. but in that circumstance, i think it could be different from what happened then.

from what i understand even in a mini recession over there houses were seized by banks and lending institutions and resold at a significant loss.

anyway i thought it was that kind of extreme economic collapse we were discussing.

[tahn1000]

another thing for the boot and suitcase is microfibre cloths, at least face cloth sized and a microfibre towel, even a microfibre towel wrap for when you've washed you hair. a brand microfibre cloth for car washing would be good enough.

you can clean yourself down with minimal water and keep yourself hygienic and smell free even without soap, which only leaves your hair as being potentially troublesome. you could wash yourself out of a bucket.

[pico]

If you want a suitcase ready to go, you need to look at getting a KelTec Sub 2000 folding carbine firearm. They fold in half, and mine would fit in a small bag. It takes Glock 9mm magazines, so you could have a dozen loaded 33 round magazines with this carbine and be ready to handle a couple hundred zombies if the need were there. I am a strong supporter for people to have BOB/GOOD bags. I bought a German Flectarn backpack the other day and plan on using this for my daughter, as this one is large but doesn't have the frame like a large US mil surp bag would have. She will likely be able to use this to have everything she would need to have for a 3 day period easily.

If you are a bicycle type, consider buying a towable kid carrier, the sort with the wheels that tows them along to the rear. You could load that up with some shit and be on your merry way.

[AdemaMercenary]

I want some of those water bottles too, that's an awesome idea haha

[Anarch]

I think All us preppers are infatuated with those stackable water bottles!

[pico]

It is funny, as I have picked some up from Wal-mart. I now have 6 of them, and will dump my smaller stock of regular gallow jugs and go to that stacking types from now on. They are less than a true gallon, and at $1 each, they cost a bit more, but IMO, the stacking feature is well worth it.

[GP100]

It is funny, as I have picked some up from Wal-mart. I now have 6 of them, and will dump my smaller stock of regular gallow jugs and go to that stacking types from now on. They are less than a true gallon, and at $1 each, they cost a bit more, but IMO, the stacking feature is well worth it.

I did the same. When I started I was using 2.5 gallon spicket products, but those are impossible to keep in any condensed way. But yeah, I just drank through all my other types of water bottles and ONLY keep these stackable ones now.

My layout is pretty limited. You could easily store 100 gallons of water with these though, in a basement or whatever. Cheap too.

And, these jugs are sturdy -- much sturdier than a thin standard gallon material. I could see refilling and reusing these quite often.

[pico]

Yep... reusing them is a definite option if they are kept out of sunlight, which would likely degrade them over time. That said, you can also buy the large blue 7 US gallon cans at walmart with a tap assembly. These cans are very sturdy and would last several decades if not abused. I have a pair of these, as 7 gallons is about my limit without straining myself. These cans are a bit of cash, but they are even more durable... much like a plastic gasoline can. Just be sure you clean them before filling. I use the same procedure I use when brewing my craft ales and sodas. I use a liberal amount of chlorine bleach and fill with water to the rim of the container. I then let it sit for around an hour or 2, then dump this out and rinse to get rid of most of the bleach smell/taste. Then you can go from there. Clean water stored this way should last a decent amount of time. Even better would be to save your 2 liter bottles with caps and clean them the same way. Then, you fill them up to the very top and then tighten the cap. The water must not become frozen, and would have no air to allow it to go stale. Also, the caps on the 2 liter bottles are made to keep pressure in, so they would not have any leakage at all occurring. Having containers on hand to store water in an emergency is key to making it thru without too much fear. The collapsible containers also work well.

[GP100]

I was thinking about several scenarios today where your key to survival for at least a good amount of time would be stockpiled water. Particularly in a nuclear / chemical / even biological situation, you wouldn't want to touch water from a river or even rain given fallout or other contaminants. You'd want a good several gallons already stored so you won't have to leave at all for a while. Wish I could store more than my 36 gallons!

[Ningishiddza]

I was thinking about several scenarios today where your key to survival for at least a good amount of time would be stockpiled water. Particularly in a nuclear / chemical / even biological situation, you wouldn't want to touch water from a river or even rain given fallout or other contaminants. You'd want a good several gallons already stored so you won't have to leave at all for a while. Wish I could store more than my 36 gallons!

Why would make things harder than they have to be? Go to the local university, get a hydrology map, see if you're on top of an aquifer and drill. If you aren't set up a cistern system. Fallout? You people watch way too movies. Fusion produces Helium, and there ain't no such thing as radioactive Helium. And for those who are just too dumb to figure it out, Helium is lighter than air and will rise and collect above the stratosphere.

Your fallout will be 6%-8% of PuWG which is unfissioned and vaporized (the fusion process sheds neutrons which enhances the fission process and will consume most of the PuWG trigger which most likely would be about 8 kg to 12 kg of PuWG so you can do the math and figure it out from there), and no one so freaking retard as to ground burst a perfectly good 400 kt warhead so it will be detonated probably 40 miles to 80 miles above Earth (in part to maximize the effects of both over-pressure and EMP).

Best case scenario is that you're out "Ground Zero" and the fallout will hit a few 100 miles away.

Storing water is stupid, time-consuming, costly and a waste of space.

You need to prioritize your disasters. NBC attack not gonna happen in your life-time. Sucks for you. The most likely scenarios:

1) Small scale civil disturbance: no survival skills necessary

2) Large scale civil disturbance: Some people might need to protect their person and property. Those would be people who live in large urban areas with ghettos.

3) EMP Event: could be triggered by nuclear or solar: Your survival plan here is just too simple. Within 24 hours you need to be able to round up as many cows, goats, pigs, sheep, chicken and geese as you can, and be able to defend them. If you are unable to do that, you'll die within 2 weeks after your food runs out. Really, for the lot of you, th only thing you and your family will need is the Total Survival Kit which I sell for $19.99 plus Shipping & Handling, and which contains a high quality 16-foot flexible 3-inch diameter hose, a roll of 100-mile-an-hour tape, and a sheet of finely crafted cardboard, plus multi-lingual instructions to guide people through the process of quickly and easily attaching the hose to the exhaust pipe and securing the other end in the vehicle.

4) Asteroid Strike: more likely than an NBC attack but not as likely as an EMP Event. You don't really need to prepare for that, and it's a waste of time and money, since the government will come and evacuate you if you're near the strike zone and survive.

5) Civil War: more likely than an Asteroid Strike but not as likely as an EMP Event. You'll need to go "native."

Economic meltdown? That ain't gonna happen, and so what if it did? Nothing will happen. I don't think you all are versed enough in economics to know what you're talking about.

[GP100]

Why would make things harder than they have to be? Go to the local university, get a hydrology map, see if you're on top of an aquifer and drill. If you aren't set up a cistern system. Fallout? You people watch way too movies. Fusion produces Helium, and there ain't no such thing as radioactive Helium. And for those who are just too dumb to figure it out, Helium is lighter than air and will rise and collect above the stratosphere.

Your fallout will be 6%-8% of PuWG which is unfissioned and vaporized (the fusion process sheds neutrons which enhances the fission process and will consume most of the PuWG trigger which most likely would be about 8 kg to 12 kg of PuWG so you can do the math and figure it out from there), and no one so freaking retard as to ground burst a perfectly good 400 kt warhead so it will be detonated probably 40 miles to 80 miles above Earth (in part to maximize the effects of both over-pressure and EMP).

Best case scenario is that you're out "Ground Zero" and the fallout will hit a few 100 miles away.

Storing water is stupid, time-consuming, costly and a waste of space.

You need to prioritize your disasters. NBC attack not gonna happen in your life-time. Sucks for you. The most likely scenarios:

1) Small scale civil disturbance: no survival skills necessary

2) Large scale civil disturbance: Some people might need to protect their person and property. Those would be people who live in large urban areas with ghettos.

3) EMP Event: could be triggered by nuclear or solar: Your survival plan here is just too simple. Within 24 hours you need to be able to round up as many cows, goats, pigs, sheep, chicken and geese as you can, and be able to defend them. If you are unable to do that, you'll die within 2 weeks after your food runs out. Really, for the lot of you, th only thing you and your family will need is the Total Survival Kit which I sell for $19.99 plus Shipping & Handling, and which contains a high quality 16-foot flexible 3-inch diameter hose, a roll of 100-mile-an-hour tape, and a sheet of finely crafted cardboard, plus multi-lingual instructions to guide people through the process of quickly and easily attaching the hose to the exhaust pipe and securing the other end in the vehicle.

4) Asteroid Strike: more likely than an NBC attack but not as likely as an EMP Event. You don't really need to prepare for that, and it's a waste of time and money, since the government will come and evacuate you if you're near the strike zone and survive.

5) Civil War: more likely than an Asteroid Strike but not as likely as an EMP Event. You'll need to go "native."

Economic meltdown? That ain't gonna happen, and so what if it did? Nothing will happen. I don't think you all are versed enough in economics to know what you're talking about.

So nuclear weapons don't cause fall-out and I'm too stupid to see the writing on the wall for a potential economic collapse. That's what I got from the above.

[pico]

Yeah... Ningi... SHFU on this. Your response is fucking retarded. It is not stupid to have enough water for your family to stay hydrated at least a week if need be. One gallon a day per person is not that much to store, and while it does take up space, by your response, no preps other than your tape, hosing, and cardboard is required.... the dumbest survival kit I ever heard of short of nothing at all.

[GP100]

In fact, particularly in the case of a nasty virus outbreak, I think you'd be at a huge advantage to not have to leave your house at all for a month. No exposure to other people.

[stonesmith]

REI has some larger stackable containers too.

[Rockytrawn]

Good idea about b4eing abl4e to avoid crowds to avoid virus...Or if you get sick and slapped with a qurantine... for example small pox lasts about a month, or until all the scabs fall off and you don;t want to get or give....

I tried storing wheat but found even with mothballs and cedar still got weevles, apparently they came with the wheat. And instead of repelling them, cedar blocks in little bags attracted them! Pecocks and horse liked the wheat even if it was rank with bugs...

[pico]

That is a crappy way to store wheat... put the wheat in mylar bags or at least in food grade plastic buckets. Seal the mylar bags with a heat sealer, but throw in a handful of oxygen absorbers into the bag before hand. This will remove all the air from within the bag, and basically kill any bugs in there.