Internet Service & Mbps: The Reality

[lazserus]

I know not how Internet Service Providers (ISP) work globally, I can only speak for North American practices. Thus, the following information is restricted to North American ISP business practices.

Internet Service Providers continually fool customers by using abbreviations and terminology to which most consumers are ignorant. Most commonly ISPs advertise their bandwidth flow using megabit per second, but usually they abbreviate to Mbps, which confuses most customers. This confusion leads to many customers believing their bandwidth is much greater than what is actually offers. Moreover, what is offered is rarely achieved.

First and foremost, you need to know the abbreviation the ISPs use, which is Mbps. This stands for megaBITS per second. Normally a provider says you get X Mbsp download and X Kbsp (kilobit per second) upload.

BIT & BYTE
I truly hate to do this, but we have to tackle some mathematics in order to comprehend the relationship between a bit and a byte, a kilobit and kilobyte, a megabit and megabyte, and so on. The good news is that the math is easy, it's the terms you have to wrap your head around.

Every piece of information transferred using computers is based on the bit, the lowest common denominator in the binary world. A string of binary code (a specific combination of 1's and 0's) equals a bit of information. A bit is so small and insignificant, it's like a single cell in a human body. The bit alone is not important (just as the cell isn't), yet the combination of bits (and combination of cells) is important. If you're a biology fan, you can relate binary to DNA and rNA, and a bit is a cell.


8 bits = 1 byte
1024 bytes = 1 kilobyte (kilo referring to 1000)
1024 kilobytes = 1 megabyte (mega referring to 100,0000)

The 1024 standard is true, but it becomes more complex after the megabyte. In theory 1024 megabytes equates to a single gigabyte, but the reality is more complex. But the upper stages aren't important for this topic.

Bait-and-Switch
Bait-and-switch is actually a simple form of fraud, most commonly used in retail environments, yet this form of fraud is legal. Your ISP uses this form of fraud two fold.

ISPs, in their literature and through their human agents, use specific vocabulary to confuse the customer, namely using the bit system instead of the byte system. No one uses the bit system anymore because everything we deal with is mega or giga in byte size. Hell, the bit system expired before the year 2000. The bit system, as it is employed by ISPs, is merely used to confuse the customer. Let's look at an example.

In the average North American metropolis, an ISP offers roughly a domestic speed of 5-8Mbps down. Superficially this looks like 5-8 MEGABYTES download speed, but it's far from it. Using the bit conversion, 8 Mbps means 1 megabyte per second. That means when an ISP says they offer 8 Mbps they really mean they only offer 1 megabyte download. And beyond this, they won't ever actually offer you that much. They sell you on a concept and once you sign up and do the math, you're stuck with a different reality. Bait-and-switch.

Shitty Reality
In order for you to be promised 8 megabytes per second download, your ISP would have to offer change to its vocabulary, otherwise say they offer 64 Mbps. And even though you're promised 8 megabyte downloads, you'll be lucky to experience half those speeds due to throttling. In some Asian countries (S. Korea) it's common to actually experience 25 megabyte-per-second downloads.

The U.S. barely made the top 10 list of countries with advanced internet technology. Most eastern countries are more than 30x times advanced. The sad reality is that technology has nothing to do with it. North America was gutted in the 1990s and fiber optics installed throughout every city and its periphery towns, but big business is holding back. ISPs make TONS of money by confusing customers with lingo and offering shit service far below capabilities so that they can ration out "upgrades" to high-paying customers.

Perspective
Some of you reading this thread may not fully appreciate the numeric information I've provided, and that's perfectly fine. So, in that case, allow me to offer some perspective, some association.


Feature film at 720p = 800+ megabytes
Feature film at 1080i = 1.25-2 gigabytes
Low-quality MP3 = 1-3 megabytes
Medium-quality MP3 = 3-6 megabytes
High-quality MP3 (iTunes) 9-15 megabytes

In a perfect world, if you actually received the bandwidth your provider offers, you're looking at a top of 1 megabyte per second, which would be 15 seconds for a 320kpbs MP3, and 13 minutes for a 720p feature film. Double that for a 1080i film. You don't get that good even with a T1 these days. So, if your ISP actually provided the offered 8 Mbps, and your connection had no hiccups, you could download an HD feature film in 13 minutes. But you actually can't!

Final Thoughts
Because capitalism has stomped its way into interfering progress, there's nothing we as consumers can do to change things. We can, however, understand the bullshit these companies attempt to dish out so that we can better choose between competitors. Even if your company offers 10 Mbps, that's no more than 1.25 megabytes, and what you'll actually achieve is at best half that.

Remember, the megabit is much, much less than the megabyte. Your ISP is pulling a bait-and-switch on you with the megabit numbers. Why? Because North Americans are idiots, especially Americans. We see a higher number and automatically assume it's better.

If you're interested in a bit/byte calculator, I suggest this (http://www.matisse.net/bitcalc/) simple one.

[Anarch]

320kpbs

WTF?

I regularly get around 400 sometimes upwards of 600.

I have just plain ole DSL

[Vuall]

Wow you guys have some real slow internet.

Btw Mb is mega bit and MB is mega byte, it's quite easy to tell the difference.

I use Virgin Media's 20Mb service and quite regularly actually get about 8 or 9Mb

you can check yours here: http://www.speedtest.net/

[Traveler]

Well this is what I got..

Advertised as high speed

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1368944407.png

[Vuall]

faster than 99% of Ca? wow

just did mine, it's up and down.

http://speedtest.net/result/1369176216.png

[Rabid1]

Well this is what I got..

Advertised as high speed

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1368944407.png

Unfortunately high speed just means faster than dialup. Back in the day a shotgun modem was high speed. It's just another way they can get you. I still can't get used to paying twice as much for half the speed compared to where I used to live. Although having an ISP that has a main router still set to default admin user and password is handy. I have gone in a few time and reset the DNS server when they were down. You have to love small town service.

[Anarch]

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1369541696.png

The above was while uploading and downloading on computer two.

Below is after the wife turned off her programs and her PC.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1369543737.png

DSL. Connection.


Vaull looks like he has a cable connection.

I wonder what Lazurasas' tests at?

[lazserus]

Even at Vuall's 10.73Mbps, that's only 1.34 megabytes per second down, and he doesn't reside in North America.

As I said, speeds are measured by ISPs in kilobits and megabits, not kilobytes and megabytes. This is where customers get confused. Even Speedtest.net measures in megabits, not megabytes (hence Mbps while testing). Mbps = Megabits per second.

[Anarch]

Well thats easy,

I'm in texas like you. Closer to the SA area though.

Traveler is in canada Toronto I think

and Rabid1 is Illinois I think... correct me if i'm wrong rabid1

[lazserus]

States are irrelevant to the topic of this thread, my friend. The point of the thread is that companies confuse customers by using abbreviations such as Mbps, which most think of as megabytes per second. Our individual downstreams have no real bearing on this topic other than to galvanize the information I originally provided.

[DontBeAfraid]

My results are outstanding.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1371371754.png

[ruiner4u]

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1371384203.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Hmmmm at the very end it got REAL fast and the little graph thing skyrocketed.. Is that what they mean by throttling so isp's can make these little tests look good?

[lazserus]

Aright folks, please don't post your bandwidth speeds in this thread. I didn't create the thread for people to share their downstreams. It's an informative thread.

[DontBeAfraid]

Laz... you posted yours so... what the fuck is the problem?

[ruiner4u]

Then can I post my bandwidth in all of The Words threads?

[Anarch]

Stop being such a mod nazi laz...do as I say and not as I do aint cool man.

[Anarch]

Also Kudos on DBAs speeds. is that the cable "plus" package?

Any throttling on your connections for fair use?

[DontBeAfraid]

I think I have the mid tier package. I know I get throttled for obvious p2p activities but Im not for anything else as far as I can tell.

[Anarch]

I think I have the mid tier package. I know I get throttled for obvious p2p activities but Im not for anything else as far as I can tell.

I know how to work around that...but no what I was more curious about is :

Do you have download and upload caps?

ATT was supposed to cap us this last month but so far nothing...

I'm sure the reason for ATTs hesitation has nothing to do with Time Warner making fun of them and their caps and offering new customers that switch no caps and 50 bucks off.

[DontBeAfraid]

I hear its 250 gigs but even with heavy netflicks use I dont thinkI have hit it.

[Anarch]

I hear its 250 gigs but even with heavy netflicks use I dont thinkI have hit it.

No you wouldn't with only that as you're main bandwidth eater.

Well thats all neat if you don't mind the caps and insist upon superior speed.

I am more of the in between type.. I insist upon the highspeeds but caps are a deal breaker.

[DontBeAfraid]

hd movies are like 7 gigs but ya, even watching one every single night I still wouldnt come all that close to the cap... and Im not running a server/service of any kind so I prefer the highspeeds...

[lazserus]

Laz... you posted yours so... what the fuck is the problem?
I posted mine only because it was requested, DBA. But since you're going to whine about it, I deleted mine and I'm still on topic.


Stop being such a mod nazi laz...do as I say and not as I do aint cool man.
This thread isn't called Post Your Bandwidth. It's a discussion on the definition of Mbps. If you guys want a thread sharing your bandwidth with the rest of the membership then create one. This is a tips forum.

I wish you guys would actually pay attention to the content you post. It's absurd that you stray so far from the topic and then call people Nazis for telling you to stay on topic.

[Anarch]

I wish you would stop acting like a control freak sheesus . I mean really excuse us for not commenting the way you wish us too but nobody was out of line here laz nobody but yourself with your overbearing insistence that we write what you want to read.

Call it off topic , call it off center, call it what ever you like mang all we poor peons here see is an out of control nazi mod..I mean seriously your making Lycanox and Cart look tame by comparison.


All us posting our band width is a testament to the speeds our IPs allow us (AS YOU BROUGHT UP IN YOUR OP) and it looks as though some of us do far better then other depending upon our local rather then our internet providers hatching some kind of conspiracy to throttle our speeds by keeping us in the dark....

Not a big surprise.

I got more non surprising news for ya, Many MANY of us understand abbreviations like Mbs and Kbs and terms of service/ use contracts and what average speed means and all this wonderfull stuff you feel inclined to share with us.... only when we share back with you in a way you personally disapprove of and all of a sudden "we need to cut that out"

Seriously man loosen up.

[Rabid1]

States are irrelevant to the topic of this thread, my friend. The point of the thread is that companies confuse customers by using abbreviations such as Mbps, which most think of as megabytes per second. Our individual downstreams have no real bearing on this topic other than to galvanize the information I originally provided.

It would be unfair to imply this is meant as deliberate misinformation on the providers part. If a person chooses to be ignorant of the terminology used in a service they pay for it is not the services fault. Bits and bytes are standards that have been in place longer than high speed internet has been available.

[DontBeAfraid]

I wish you guys would actually pay attention to the content you post. It's absurd that you stray so far from the topic and then call people Nazis for telling you to stay on topic. Posting our bandwidth in a thread ABOUT BANDWIDTH in which the OP POSTED HIS FUCKING BANDWIDTH is off topic? You have lost your fucking mind.

edit: In all seriousness you might have OCD and may need some sort of help getting it under control.

[Traveler]

There is one interesting thing in this and that is a comparison between the different providers. Some companies are better than others.

[Rabid1]

There is one interesting thing in this and that is a comparison between the different providers. Some companies are better than others.

Many smaller ISP lease bandwidth from from larger companies and have no control over speed other than what they claim ul/dl to be. They are more bandwidth brokers than true ISP. They pay for a connection, and do none of the maintenance and upkeep themselves. Some don't even have access to setup new accounts they simply forward information to whoever their provider is.

The unfortunate people just about 40 miles south of us are on leased phone lines, and leased internet . The phone lines are on pretty archaic equipment and on the best day are not better than most VOIP on their worst day. The internet is "Wireless" and is basically a central hub and a series of repeaters throughout the town that is leased by a retired electrical engineer and sold to the people in town. Fortunately Hughes has become available and people are starting to wise up and move over. Being a very small town some people won't move over because they don't want to put Ol' Brett out of business. Ol' Brett is making about 3500 a month after paying his provider and the cost of equipment he gives to his customers. Poor Ol' Brett.

[Anarch]

eww hughs net.

They suck balls.

Before getting huges net we specifically asked if they had caps... we were told no... we asked the installer..he said no... we got online...for about 20 minutes...thats how long it took us to meet our cap and get throttled.

FUCK HUGHS NET!


And often hughs net takes advantage of rural communities working with the local phone companys to keep the infrastructure from being upgraded. We tried going to ATT, cricket, sprint, everyone... we got the same thing every time... local law prevents us from providing service.

Yet If I had used cricket in Texas and brought it with us to MO that would of been ok ...\

RRRRRRR

Hate those lying fair use POS sacks of bloody fudge.

[GamerGal]

Posting our bandwidth in a thread ABOUT BANDWIDTH in which the OP POSTED HIS FUCKING BANDWIDTH is off topic? You have lost your fucking mind.

edit: In all seriousness you might have OCD and may need some sort of help getting it under control.

Be careful DBA, he might get CDO(alphebetical order damn it) on your ass.

[Rabid1]

eww hughs net.

They suck balls.



Sweaty boil covered crab infested bleeding syphilitic balls, yeah. but at least theses people get an alternative. With what most of them do they rarely hit the cap and at least get better speed for the money.

[lazserus]

Posting our bandwidth in a thread ABOUT BANDWIDTH in which the OP POSTED HIS FUCKING BANDWIDTH is off topic? You have lost your fucking mind.
And what's funny is you quoted me telling you to read, something you either didn't do or ignored to mention. I originally posted mine because it was requested, but I deleted it (and my original post was left intact) while still staying on topic. I don't have that card, so go fish. ;)

Again, this thread isn't about YOUR bandwidth, or Anarch's, or even mine. It's about providers and how they bait and switch customers.


Many smaller ISP lease bandwidth from from larger companies and have no control over speed other than what they claim ul/dl to be. They are more bandwidth brokers than true ISP. They pay for a connection, and do none of the maintenance and upkeep themselves. Some don't even have access to setup new accounts they simply forward information to whoever their provider is.
Oh, this is certainly true these days. Most local yokal providers do just this, like a local company piggy-backing on bottled water to earn a buck. The big wigs, though, like Comcast, are in control. There's not a huge difference between this and how cellular or power companies function. Teddy Roosevelt, the monopoly buster, would be sorely disappointed with today's economics.


The unfortunate people just about 40 miles south of us are on leased phone lines, and leased internet . The phone lines are on pretty archaic equipment and on the best day are not better than most VOIP on their worst day.
I won't stray too far from the topic by acknowledging this, but I used to work for a national telephone conglomerate, and I learned a lot of little nasty tricks of the trade. The lines themselves are probably fine unless they've been flooded. It's all copper wiring, so with proper shielding and little moisture (avoiding rust), any telephone line is perfectly operational and can deliver the maximum speed for DSL permitted by the provider. Junction boxes and the likes, however, can slow down progress when dealing with copper wiring. When I worked for this communications conglomerate I spoke with a number of employees in the DSL department talking about having to replace this type of equipment.

The copper wire, as long as it is not corroded, is intrinsically optimized to handle whatever form of communication at its optimal speed. Based on copper's limitations, that is. It's the nodes, the box, panels, whatever between each line and reaching to the server that may need upgrading.



The internet is "Wireless" and is basically a central hub and a series of repeaters throughout the town that is leased by a retired electrical engineer and sold to the people in town. Fortunately Hughes has become available and people are starting to wise up and move over. Being a very small town some people won't move over because they don't want to put Ol' Brett out of business. Ol' Brett is making about 3500 a month after paying his provider and the cost of equipment he gives to his customers. Poor Ol' Brett.


eww hughs net.

They suck balls.
Wireless internet (as in getting your internet from a wireless connection, not like wireless networking in the home) has always been expensive, and not much has changed in the last ten years. HughsNet works but economically it's a joke. Not only does HughsNet play on the same ignorance of customers as every other ISP, it makes matters worse by price-gouging. Unfortunately, even though the technology has existed since the 1990s, HughsNet is banking on customer desperation and ignorance. More sad is they don't have any real competitors, meaning they can basically charge whatever they want and get away with it.

But let's give HughsNet a little attention, and expose them for being complete asshats.

The top HughsNet residential service package offers 2.0 Mbps downstream and 300 Kbps upstream at $89.99 per month. For a moment we'll ignore the fact this bandwidth is wireless and all the other factors involved with up/down streams, and we'll break down the meaning of each.


HughsNet: 2.0 Mbps downstream = 256 kilobytes download maximum per second at $90/month.



My Crap: 5.0 Mbps downstream = 640 kilobytes download maximum per second at $30/month.



Vuall: 20 Mbps downstream = 2.5 megabytes/2560 kilobytes download maximum per second at roughly $10/month.

With the two examples following HughsNet, one mine in Texas and the other Vuall's in the U.K., we can certainly see the extremes HughsNet is charging for streams not too far better than the first ISDN and ADSL speeds in the 1990s.

But wait...there's more.

About their bandwidth, HughsNet's top residential package at 2.0 Mbps down and 300 Kbps up at an excruciating $90/month is still stunted by their bandwidth limitation per account. So even after paying a ridiculous monthly fee for a decade-old downstream, you get a 400MB cap per day! This means you can only download and/or upload 400 megabytes in a 24-hour period. Your service won't be shut off if you exceed, instead you'll get throttled - meaning your download speeds will probably slow to meet dial-up - and you will be charged tons of money per megabyte transferred within that period AFTER you've reached the 400MB mark.

400 megabyte cap per day, on top of your shitty bandwidth at $90/month!!! This means if you purchased a game off the STEAM network you would have to either download it over two days (while doing nothing else online) or pay a fee to HughsNet for going over your 400MB cap. The average PC game these days is roughly 1.2 gigabytes in size COMPRESSED.

Not only does HughsNet charge an absurdly high rate for its archaic streams, you have to pay equipment and installation fees. Right now they claim standard installation is free, but they don't tell you that the equipment may cost you $600.

When it comes to internet, HughsNet is the Devil.

[Anarch]

you do know hughs net is satellite internet right.

as in Not cell based....you knew that right?

also laz, your speed was

1.86 mbs download and 0.25 upload with a 26 ms ping.


Suddenlink does you dirty. Switch to a better provider.

[DontBeAfraid]

I originally posted mine because it was requested, but I deleted it after being called out for being a douche bag hypocrite.


(and my original post was left intact) while still staying on topic. It wasnt off topic to begin with so eat it.


I don't have that card, so go fish. ;)The clever retort card?

Off topic: are you a control freak in real life?

edit: laz, why did you edit your post in such a way that it does not mention that you changed it? Rewriting history again?

[lazserus]

you do know hughs net is satellite internet right.

as in Not cell based....you knew that right?
Yes, I am quite aware of this. And the satellite internet is their biggest selling point, even though their actual offers are shite and overpriced.


also laz, your speed was

1.86 mbs download and 0.25 upload with a 26 ms ping.


Suddenlink does you dirty. Switch to a better provider.
Yes, that is what I posted (and deleted). And I am well aware that my provider offers me shite bandwidth. Strangely I feel as if you kinda care....I think we should hug.

No, but seriously, my provider offers shitty streams and I know it. I unfortunately don't live in an area wherein I have the luxury to pick and choose. I assure you what I have is better than what I had before. And at least I'm not selling my fingers or children for HughsNet and it's bullshit bandwidth.

[Anarch]

IF you want to hug dude.... maybe mod less and admin more.

I mean that.

Your style is out there.