GP100
Jul 30th, 2011, 3:46 PM
If I were to get a lever action rifle for SHTF purposes, should I scope or not (let's say, .357 lever action). In what situations would I regret not having a scope? In what situations might I regret having a scope?
View Full Version : SHTF Rifle: To Scope or Not
pico
Aug 1st, 2011, 1:44 PM
Some lever actions will not work well with a scope, as the spent cases get ejected from the top of the receiver. My Rossi 92 .44 magnum carbine is this way. The .357 is not a long range round, and neither is the .44 magnum. If you go with a round like a .45-70 or 30-30, then I would consider scoping the rifle/carbine. Otherwise, using good iron sights is likely the way to go.
GP100
Aug 1st, 2011, 9:55 PM
I'm looking at a Henry Big Boy in .357, side ejection. Nothing crazy -- 4x fixed maybe.
I just wonder if iron sights would be better... and in what scenarios.
SHTF, would I ever need the scope over the iron sights?
I just wonder if iron sights would be better... and in what scenarios.
SHTF, would I ever need the scope over the iron sights?
pico
Aug 1st, 2011, 10:48 PM
Obviously, scopes add precision to your shots. That said, good iron sights might be all you need with that round. If you are inclined to get a scope, you might want to consider getting a very solid one. I think you will find the lever action will not be comfortable with a scope, as you are adding a bit of height to your sight plain, and you will likely have a stock that does not have a high check support. While leather supports are sold that are added much like the M1 Garand ones out there, they do add weight, as do optics. If it were me, I would be inclined to get a .357 lever action carbine and perhaps add a peep rear sight with windage. Get comfortable using it, and stick with that.
LoudAmerican
Aug 24th, 2011, 10:56 AM
I am more old school - I prefer the range an Enfield .303 affords me
.303 at 650 and 1000 :2thumbs: it's just business!
http://youtu.be/zy3BsgjqiQg
and for closer up - my SKS and for up close and personal ... My .45 cal Glock with 117gr rounds
.303 at 650 and 1000 :2thumbs: it's just business!
http://youtu.be/zy3BsgjqiQg
and for closer up - my SKS and for up close and personal ... My .45 cal Glock with 117gr rounds
pico
Aug 28th, 2011, 1:17 PM
Those older SMLE can be found modernized with the more common .308. They can hold 12 in the magazines, and are great trunk guns.
A .45 Glock with 117 grain bullets must be a .45 GAP. I would think the light bullets would be total crap, defeating the purpose of the .45 ACP. I would want a heavier round, like those in the 230 grain FMJ. If going with a JHP bullet, I would think 200 grains would be okay. Just my $.02 worth.
A .45 Glock with 117 grain bullets must be a .45 GAP. I would think the light bullets would be total crap, defeating the purpose of the .45 ACP. I would want a heavier round, like those in the 230 grain FMJ. If going with a JHP bullet, I would think 200 grains would be okay. Just my $.02 worth.
lycanox
Aug 28th, 2011, 1:39 PM
There is a downside to using an scope do. As you tend to lose view of your surrounding area when using one.
So I would recommend one that can come of.
So I would recommend one that can come of.
pico
Aug 28th, 2011, 2:10 PM
Get the proper scope rings and you can use both iron sights, as well as scope, while the scope is attached.
LoudAmerican
Aug 28th, 2011, 3:41 PM
Those older SMLE can be found modernized with the more common .308. They can hold 12 in the magazines, and are great trunk guns.
A .45 Glock with 117 grain bullets must be a .45 GAP. I would think the light bullets would be total crap, defeating the purpose of the .45 ACP. I would want a heavier round, like those in the 230 grain FMJ. If going with a JHP bullet, I would think 200 grains would be okay. Just my $.02 worth.
the 117gr is very effective (READ ABOUT IT HERE (http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/article2.htm))
Having gone plinking with it on a bright sunny day with a second gen Glock (not compensated) ...
Let me tell ya' the mental impact of just the muzzle flash is worth the OMG factor ... it can nearly blind the shooter.
... on the range popping at paper targets ... these is NO loss of range
after all the fragging projectile is a lot lighter with about the same amount of powder.
I can attest to the fact that a 200gr and 230gr at same distance hitting the paper target were producing tattered entry holes where the 117gr was looking like a paper punch hit the target ... the problem is they are difficult for find ... but in my opinion they are well worth the added cost in a serious situation.
Also - keep in mind ... if you can get them - it's from someones personal stash and not over the counter at your favorite shop.
A .45 Glock with 117 grain bullets must be a .45 GAP. I would think the light bullets would be total crap, defeating the purpose of the .45 ACP. I would want a heavier round, like those in the 230 grain FMJ. If going with a JHP bullet, I would think 200 grains would be okay. Just my $.02 worth.
the 117gr is very effective (READ ABOUT IT HERE (http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/article2.htm))
Having gone plinking with it on a bright sunny day with a second gen Glock (not compensated) ...
Let me tell ya' the mental impact of just the muzzle flash is worth the OMG factor ... it can nearly blind the shooter.
... on the range popping at paper targets ... these is NO loss of range
after all the fragging projectile is a lot lighter with about the same amount of powder.
I can attest to the fact that a 200gr and 230gr at same distance hitting the paper target were producing tattered entry holes where the 117gr was looking like a paper punch hit the target ... the problem is they are difficult for find ... but in my opinion they are well worth the added cost in a serious situation.
Also - keep in mind ... if you can get them - it's from someones personal stash and not over the counter at your favorite shop.
Waymarker
Aug 28th, 2011, 6:53 PM
You guys really ought to get into computer wargaming!
Armed Assault II (also known as Arma2) is probably the best tactical shooter around and i've been playing it for years, and now a FREE lite version is available, it's almost identical to the full version but lacks the high-res graphics. Try it-
FREE ARMA2 DOWNLOAD- http://www.arma2.com/free
PS- Here's an Arma2 rifle I've been testing at FGM (I'm PoorOldSpike)
L85A2 ACOG GL
this is a nice little all-singing/all-dancing rifle used by the Brits, it's got:- Telescopic daylight scope, Laser, Gren launcher, Semi or auto fire.
However its scope lacks night vision so you have to use NVG's.
It's short and stumpy-
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Photos/AA-L81.jpg
SCOPED AND NIGHT Screenshots-
http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/showthread.php?7858-Rifles
PS- Some rifles in Arma2 have iron sights and the accuracy is appalling, beats me how they ever hit anything in WW2, so scoped weapons are a must nowadays, you can't miss..:)
Armed Assault II (also known as Arma2) is probably the best tactical shooter around and i've been playing it for years, and now a FREE lite version is available, it's almost identical to the full version but lacks the high-res graphics. Try it-
FREE ARMA2 DOWNLOAD- http://www.arma2.com/free
PS- Here's an Arma2 rifle I've been testing at FGM (I'm PoorOldSpike)
L85A2 ACOG GL
this is a nice little all-singing/all-dancing rifle used by the Brits, it's got:- Telescopic daylight scope, Laser, Gren launcher, Semi or auto fire.
However its scope lacks night vision so you have to use NVG's.
It's short and stumpy-
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Photos/AA-L81.jpg
SCOPED AND NIGHT Screenshots-
http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/showthread.php?7858-Rifles
PS- Some rifles in Arma2 have iron sights and the accuracy is appalling, beats me how they ever hit anything in WW2, so scoped weapons are a must nowadays, you can't miss..:)
pico
Aug 28th, 2011, 7:07 PM
In reality, bullpup rifles and carbines have a lot against them in real world shooting. What caliber is that capable of firing?
As the the Aguilla ammo, I will need to try that out. I have been very pleased with their rimfire and other handgun rounds.
As the the Aguilla ammo, I will need to try that out. I have been very pleased with their rimfire and other handgun rounds.
Waymarker
Aug 29th, 2011, 10:48 AM
In reality, bullpup rifles and carbines have a lot against them in real world shooting. What caliber is that capable of firing?..
5.56mm.
I should mention Arma2 is not a kid's game, you really have to know what you're doing to stay alive, so it's a great SHTF survival learning tool, as not only do you have to know how to handle the 100+ rifles in the game, but you also have to know your tactics.
I've been wargaming for 30 years (board and computer), and Arma2 is one of the toughest games i've ever played, i only win about 1 in 3 'manhunt-type' scenarios, trying to stay alive against a group of comp-controlled enemy troops, god they come at you so FAST from all directions..:)
A stubby bullpup is good in close-combat whirling fights, but out in the open a longer-barrelled job is better at picking them off.
The Arma2 forum regularly discusses all this sort of stuff, there are actual military guys who play the game.
http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=55
5.56mm.
I should mention Arma2 is not a kid's game, you really have to know what you're doing to stay alive, so it's a great SHTF survival learning tool, as not only do you have to know how to handle the 100+ rifles in the game, but you also have to know your tactics.
I've been wargaming for 30 years (board and computer), and Arma2 is one of the toughest games i've ever played, i only win about 1 in 3 'manhunt-type' scenarios, trying to stay alive against a group of comp-controlled enemy troops, god they come at you so FAST from all directions..:)
A stubby bullpup is good in close-combat whirling fights, but out in the open a longer-barrelled job is better at picking them off.
The Arma2 forum regularly discusses all this sort of stuff, there are actual military guys who play the game.
http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=55
pico
Aug 29th, 2011, 1:20 PM
That game looks neat, but I would need to buy a new video card to play it.
Waymarker
Aug 29th, 2011, 1:24 PM
That game looks neat, but I would need to buy a new video card to play it.
Hmm... The free version is called LITE because it's light on the graphics, so maybe it'll work on lower-end PC's.
It's free so it's worth a try..:)
Hmm... The free version is called LITE because it's light on the graphics, so maybe it'll work on lower-end PC's.
It's free so it's worth a try..:)
pico
Aug 29th, 2011, 2:04 PM
I tried... but it has too much lag. My PC is a 2.9GHz AMD Phenom Quad processor with 6 GB ram running Windows 7 64 bit. My video is an ATI Radeon 4200... which is the built in video on the motherboard. It is great for much, just not gaming.
LoudAmerican
Aug 29th, 2011, 3:51 PM
I tried... but it has too much lag. My PC is a 2.9GHz AMD Phenom Quad processor with 6 GB ram running Windows 7 64 bit. My video is an ATI Radeon 4200... which is the built in video on the motherboard. It is great for much, just not gaming.
so you don't blow money like me :bounce:
my laptop is a QOSMIO that they don't have many of
It's an 18.4 inch full HD TruBrite screen with NVIDIA GTX 460M Graphics with Hybrid Drive Technology hard drive (1 terabyte of hard drive space)
also has Dolby Home Theater Audio ... the Quad Core i7 makes a nice difference though
so you don't blow money like me :bounce:
my laptop is a QOSMIO that they don't have many of
It's an 18.4 inch full HD TruBrite screen with NVIDIA GTX 460M Graphics with Hybrid Drive Technology hard drive (1 terabyte of hard drive space)
also has Dolby Home Theater Audio ... the Quad Core i7 makes a nice difference though
pico
Aug 29th, 2011, 4:18 PM
so you don't blow money like me :bounce:
my laptop is a QOSMIO that they don't have many of
It's an 18.4 inch full HD TruBrite screen with NVIDIA GTX 460M Graphics with Hybrid Drive Technology hard drive (1 terabyte of hard drive space)
also has Dolby Home Theater Audio ... the Quad Core i7 makes a nice difference though
I piss away enough money on ammo and gun stuff. My wife and kids take the rest;)
my laptop is a QOSMIO that they don't have many of
It's an 18.4 inch full HD TruBrite screen with NVIDIA GTX 460M Graphics with Hybrid Drive Technology hard drive (1 terabyte of hard drive space)
also has Dolby Home Theater Audio ... the Quad Core i7 makes a nice difference though
I piss away enough money on ammo and gun stuff. My wife and kids take the rest;)
LoudAmerican
Aug 29th, 2011, 5:00 PM
I know what ya' mean ... when I bought this laptop last month I got my 12 year old one that was a bit less than this ... his was only $1,500.00
It just means the ol' Corvette won't get painted as soon ... but that's not surprising - constantly waist money on more tools ... only a few tools shy of a pretty nice wood shop ...
When it comes to shooting ranges in the area ... :w00t: I am so lucky!
1 - What shooting facilities are available at the Wake County Range?
The Wake County Range is an indoor shooting facility for handguns and rifles. There is a 100-meter rifle Range with 9 shooting positions, a 50-yard Range with shooting benches for both rifles and handguns, and a 50-yard pistol Range. Any caliber handgun may be shot and any rifle under .50 caliber may be used at the Range.
17 - Are there any positions for 100-yard rifle shooters to shoot prone?
There is one position on the 100 meter Range that can be easily used to shoot prone or any shooting position. Customers can also shoot prone from under the concrete benches but the far right position with no shooting bench works great for anyone that wants to shoot prone, kneeling, sitting or standing. (found at http://www.wakegov.com/firingrange/default.htm)
That's only a few miles from me ... ALL in door too :2thumbs:
It just means the ol' Corvette won't get painted as soon ... but that's not surprising - constantly waist money on more tools ... only a few tools shy of a pretty nice wood shop ...
When it comes to shooting ranges in the area ... :w00t: I am so lucky!
1 - What shooting facilities are available at the Wake County Range?
The Wake County Range is an indoor shooting facility for handguns and rifles. There is a 100-meter rifle Range with 9 shooting positions, a 50-yard Range with shooting benches for both rifles and handguns, and a 50-yard pistol Range. Any caliber handgun may be shot and any rifle under .50 caliber may be used at the Range.
17 - Are there any positions for 100-yard rifle shooters to shoot prone?
There is one position on the 100 meter Range that can be easily used to shoot prone or any shooting position. Customers can also shoot prone from under the concrete benches but the far right position with no shooting bench works great for anyone that wants to shoot prone, kneeling, sitting or standing. (found at http://www.wakegov.com/firingrange/default.htm)
That's only a few miles from me ... ALL in door too :2thumbs:
Waymarker
Aug 29th, 2011, 6:30 PM
I'm just a grunt wargamer and know zilch about techy stuff but this is the readout of my PC, I walked in the local shop a couple of years ago and told them to build me a topnotch gaming PC.
it cost me £600 (981 US dollars) and plays every game and flight sim i throw at it.
The only thing I did insist on was good old Win XP because it's not so glitchy for gaming as newer Vista and Win 7-
Intel Core2 Duo E8500@3.16GHz
RAM 4.0GB Dual-channel DDR2@400Mhz
NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 1024Mb
WinXP Home SP3
it cost me £600 (981 US dollars) and plays every game and flight sim i throw at it.
The only thing I did insist on was good old Win XP because it's not so glitchy for gaming as newer Vista and Win 7-
Intel Core2 Duo E8500@3.16GHz
RAM 4.0GB Dual-channel DDR2@400Mhz
NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 1024Mb
WinXP Home SP3
PoorOldRobert
Aug 29th, 2011, 6:41 PM
I know what ya' mean ... when I bought this laptop last month I got my 12 year old one that was a bit less than this ... his was only $1,500.00
It just means the ol' Corvette won't get painted as soon ... but that's not surprising - constantly waist money on more tools ... only a few tools shy of a pretty nice wood shop ...
When it comes to shooting ranges in the area ... :w00t: I am so lucky!
That's only a few miles from me ... ALL in door too :2thumbs:
You are fortunate to have access to such a nice facility. The fees are very reasonable for the services provided.
We have a local 100 yd outdoor range / gun shop. They offer day rates @ $18 each visit as well as annual plans starting at $85 and up to $175.
Within an hour of here is a 600 yd open range. This one is a operated by a club. They charge $250/ 1st yr, then $150 each subsequent yr.
I have a land parcel near home that we are considering a 1000 yd range for private usage. It's over 6,600' deep with HEAVY timber at the last 2000' so there is ample backstop even beyond the berm for .308 and .338 Lapua.
As of now the nearest 1000 yd range is nearly 3 hours away.
It just means the ol' Corvette won't get painted as soon ... but that's not surprising - constantly waist money on more tools ... only a few tools shy of a pretty nice wood shop ...
When it comes to shooting ranges in the area ... :w00t: I am so lucky!
That's only a few miles from me ... ALL in door too :2thumbs:
You are fortunate to have access to such a nice facility. The fees are very reasonable for the services provided.
We have a local 100 yd outdoor range / gun shop. They offer day rates @ $18 each visit as well as annual plans starting at $85 and up to $175.
Within an hour of here is a 600 yd open range. This one is a operated by a club. They charge $250/ 1st yr, then $150 each subsequent yr.
I have a land parcel near home that we are considering a 1000 yd range for private usage. It's over 6,600' deep with HEAVY timber at the last 2000' so there is ample backstop even beyond the berm for .308 and .338 Lapua.
As of now the nearest 1000 yd range is nearly 3 hours away.
pico
Aug 29th, 2011, 7:49 PM
Nice range.
As to the tech to play that game, it is my video card that takes my system out of the running for playing this game. I should replace it, just so I can pop up my resolution a bit more. I have a pair of huge monitors hooked up for day trading, and squeezing more onto the screens would be nice.
As to the tech to play that game, it is my video card that takes my system out of the running for playing this game. I should replace it, just so I can pop up my resolution a bit more. I have a pair of huge monitors hooked up for day trading, and squeezing more onto the screens would be nice.
LoudAmerican
Aug 29th, 2011, 8:09 PM
I'm just a grunt wargamer and know zilch about techy stuff but this is the readout of my PC, I walked in the local shop a couple of years ago and told them to build me a topnotch gaming PC.
it cost me £600 (981 US dollars) and plays every game and flight sim i throw at it.
The only thing I did insist on was good old Win XP because it's not so glitchy for gaming as newer Vista and Win 7-
Intel Core2 Duo E8500@3.16GHz
RAM 4.0GB Dual-channel DDR2@400Mhz
NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 1024Mb
WinXP Home SP3
I am a habitual OVER KILL type ... everything to the nth degree of what my budget allows ... I play World of Warcraft the better part of all day every day all week every week
You are fortunate to have access to such a nice facility. The fees are very reasonable for the services provided.
We have a local 100 yd outdoor range / gun shop. They offer day rates @ $18 each visit as well as annual plans starting at $85 and up to $175.
Within an hour of here is a 600 yd open range. This one is a operated by a club. They charge $250/ 1st yr, then $150 each subsequent yr.
I have a land parcel near home that we are considering a 1000 yd range for private usage. It's over 6,600' deep with HEAVY timber at the last 2000' so there is ample backstop even beyond the berm for .308 and .338 Lapua.
As of now the nearest 1000 yd range is nearly 3 hours away.
Wow ... that land sounds really nice ... you may consider opening it into a business venture ... that sounds like a nice hunk of land!!
To me - I would rather be on your property than a range ... less visual to others ... I prefer that people don't know my skill level ... it keeps them thinking twice.
Nice range.
As to the tech to play that game, it is my video card that takes my system out of the running for playing this game. I should replace it, just so I can pop up my resolution a bit more. I have a pair of huge monitors hooked up for day trading, and squeezing more onto the screens would be nice.
when I first joined the range it was one of three indoor in the area that could handle 50 cal wet fire
it cost me £600 (981 US dollars) and plays every game and flight sim i throw at it.
The only thing I did insist on was good old Win XP because it's not so glitchy for gaming as newer Vista and Win 7-
Intel Core2 Duo E8500@3.16GHz
RAM 4.0GB Dual-channel DDR2@400Mhz
NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 1024Mb
WinXP Home SP3
I am a habitual OVER KILL type ... everything to the nth degree of what my budget allows ... I play World of Warcraft the better part of all day every day all week every week
You are fortunate to have access to such a nice facility. The fees are very reasonable for the services provided.
We have a local 100 yd outdoor range / gun shop. They offer day rates @ $18 each visit as well as annual plans starting at $85 and up to $175.
Within an hour of here is a 600 yd open range. This one is a operated by a club. They charge $250/ 1st yr, then $150 each subsequent yr.
I have a land parcel near home that we are considering a 1000 yd range for private usage. It's over 6,600' deep with HEAVY timber at the last 2000' so there is ample backstop even beyond the berm for .308 and .338 Lapua.
As of now the nearest 1000 yd range is nearly 3 hours away.
Wow ... that land sounds really nice ... you may consider opening it into a business venture ... that sounds like a nice hunk of land!!
To me - I would rather be on your property than a range ... less visual to others ... I prefer that people don't know my skill level ... it keeps them thinking twice.
Nice range.
As to the tech to play that game, it is my video card that takes my system out of the running for playing this game. I should replace it, just so I can pop up my resolution a bit more. I have a pair of huge monitors hooked up for day trading, and squeezing more onto the screens would be nice.
when I first joined the range it was one of three indoor in the area that could handle 50 cal wet fire
pico
Aug 29th, 2011, 9:13 PM
I am a habitual OVER KILL type ... everything to the nth degree of what my budget allows ... I play World of Warcraft the better part of all day every day all week every week
Wow ... that land sounds really nice ... you may consider opening it into a business venture ... that sounds like a nice hunk of land!!
To me - I would rather be on your property than a range ... less visual to others ... I prefer that people don't know my skill level ... it keeps them thinking twice.
when I first joined the range it was one of three indoor in the area that could handle 50 cal wet fire
You have to keep layering it on. I am starting to drool thinking of your fortune. I have no range for my big bore in the area.
Wow ... that land sounds really nice ... you may consider opening it into a business venture ... that sounds like a nice hunk of land!!
To me - I would rather be on your property than a range ... less visual to others ... I prefer that people don't know my skill level ... it keeps them thinking twice.
when I first joined the range it was one of three indoor in the area that could handle 50 cal wet fire
You have to keep layering it on. I am starting to drool thinking of your fortune. I have no range for my big bore in the area.
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