What is Satan?

[armageddononline]

It's often been asked why God doesn't destroy Satan, but not what the devil actually is. I assume we can agree that Satan is not a cloven-hooved monster living in a fiery pit at the bottom of the Earth, so what?

Personally, I think the Bible doesn't suggest this idea. Somewhere (<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"> ) it says about how Jesus was tempted by Satan to abuse his powers. Either Satan was a monster that came up from Hell to taunt Jesus, or he must have been inside Jesus. I think the point is that temptation <em>was</em> the devil. We're all tempted to do the wrong thing, I think the idea of Satan was created to explain what was tempting us.

[dutchie]

It will take the fanatics some thinking... I think Satan is the antimatter of God, and thus the reason why he wants to stay away from him. Satan is evil, God is good. Why do we have so much trouble defining these?

[evilwill88]

Satan was an angel...... but was cast out of heaven.

Maybe he's a fallen angel?

[dutchie]

That's the story in the bible. I think god and the devil are manmade concepts to define the borders between good and evil in man's conscience.

[VegasRonin]

As an amateur student of Mythology and Theology, I must start off by saying all text concerning God and a Devil is made by man. The only debate is whether its Divinely inspired. Funny as it is, most Christians and those unfamiliar with the Old Texts put Satan, Devil, and Lucifer in the same being. Meaning that they think all the names are meant to describe the same bad guy. The Bible is a "Very Edited" (I think most agree) version of ancient Hebrew Text. There are a lot of Books that never made it to the Bible that should have. They clear up some, not all, inconsistencies. The Books are known as the Apocrypha. Without going into the Books in detail, its like this. Uriel (Sariel) is the Angel that most of us call Lucifer. The angel of light and the one that rose up against GOD with 1/4 of the other angels. Satan is described as GOD's Bad side (Not a literal translation). Satan is usually found when GOD was playing Devil's advocate with himself. Devil is man's own wicked side of himself.
Evidently the translators of the Hebrew text didn't want Bible readers to know that there isn't some great BAD GUY at war with GOD. Uriel got thrown out of GOD's presence and was only a 8th level Arch-Angel to begin with. Here is the Angelic Ranking Breakdown. 1-Seraph. 2-Cherub. 3-Thrones. 4-Dominions. 5-The Virtues. 6-Powers. 7-The Principalities. 8-The Arch-Angels. 9-The Guardian Angels.
The Christian Church believes or want you to believe that 8 & 9 are the most powerful angels. Sheesh, if they're gonna believe in the stuff they should at least get it right. So you see, when the Bible mentions Satan, its GOD playing devil's advocate or he's pissed for some reason.
;)

[VegasRonin]

Oh and just to clarify my own belief. I believe in a God but have yet to come across anything that my idea of a God like being would subscribe to.


Does an ant colony next to a highway know that their world is right next to a highway ,and traveled daily by beings that don't know or care that they exist next to our road?

[paul]

Satan is a spirit creature, the adversary of God and all who worship God.

Satan was a name given to him because he became a resister of God.

He is also known as the Devil, because he is the number one slanderer of God.

He is also described as the original serpent from when he used a snake in Eden to deceive Eve. This is why the serpent came to signify a "deceiver."

The devouring dragon in Revelation is alos symbolic of Satan.

In Job chapter 1 verses 6 through 12 and chapter 2 verses 1 through 7, there are conversations between God and Satan. If Satan were the evil in a person, the evil in this case would be in God. But that completely disagrees with what the Bible tells us about God.

Psalms chapter 92 verse 15 says: "To tell that God is upright. He is my Rock, in whom there is no unrighteousness."

Revelation chapter 4 verse 8 says: "And as for the four living creatures, each one of them respectively has six wings; round about and underneath they are full of eyes. And they have no rest day and night as they say: "Holy, holy, holy is God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is coming.""

The Hebrew text uses the expression has-Sa-tan' (the Satan) in the accounts in Job, showing that reference is being made to the one outstanding resister of God.

Zechariah chapter 3 verse 1 and 2 is another of the Scriptures, among many, using this expression.

Luke chapter 4 verses 1 through 13 tells about the Devil's attempt to tempt Jesus to do his bidding. There are statements exchanged and answers given between Jesus and Satan. The idea that Jesus was being tempted by his own evil does not harmonize with the Bible's description of Jesus as being sinless in Hebrews chapter 7 verse 26 and in 1 Peter chapter 2 verse 22.

At John chapter 6 verse 70 the Greek word di-a'bo-los' is used to describe a bad quality that had developed in Judas Iscariot. However, in Luke chapter 4 verse 3 the expression ho di-a'bo-los (the Devil) is used, thus designating a particular person.

All of God's works are perfect. He did not create unrighteousness. He did not create anyone wicked, as we can see in Deuteronomy chapter 32 verse 4 and Psalms chapter 5 verse 4.

Satan was originally a perfect spirit son of God. He became Satan.

John chapter 8 verse 44 says: "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie."

This was Jesus talking. As is true of all God's creations, his intelligent creatures, this spirit son was given free will. He abused his freedom of choice and allowed feelings of self-importance to take form in his heart. He craved the worship that belonged to God. Thus, he enticed Adam and Eve to listen to him rather than obey God. This is how he made himself Satan, meaning "adversary."

James chapter 1 verses 14 and 15 says: "But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has become accomplished, brings forth death."

None of God's intelligent creations are immune to free will. They all are capable of making choices in their lives.

Satan rules the world.

John chapter 14 verse 30 says: "I shall not speak much with you anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me,"

This was Jesus speaking of Satan.

Mankind in general obeys Satan. They listen to their desires rather than listening to what God requires of them.

Ephesians chapter 2 verse 2 says: "in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience."

2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4 states: "among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."

This god is Satan, who is also honored by the religious practices of people how follow this system of things.

1 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 20 states: "No; but I say that the things that which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons."

Luke chapter 4 verses 5 through 7 states: "So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; and the Devil said to him: "I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.""

This was the way Satan tried to tempt Jesus.

Revelation chapter 13 verses 1 and 2 says: "And it stood still upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion's mouth. And the dragon gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority."

This is Satan giving great power to the political systems of rulership.

In Daniel chapter 10 verse 13 and verse 20 it shows that Satan has had demonic princes over principal kingdoms of the earth.

Ephesians chapter 6 verse 12 says: "because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places."

This is also a reference to these demonic princes.

This is why it says at 1 John chapter 5 verse 19: "We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."

This power of Satan and his demon princes and other servants is only for a limited period of time, only for as long as God tolerates it.

So if you are talking Scripture, Satan is most definitely referred to as a spirit being, a person, and a very powerful one, not as merely the evil within ourselves.

Peace,

Paul

[VegasRonin]

I used the Old Testament and The Apocrypha. The New Testament, which seems to be your sole source, is too full of opinions and contradictions.

[JuggaloXIII]

But what you read is also just an opinion. You have no way of knowing what you read is true either. Were you there? None of us were. So I guess we just gotta wait another 10-30 years to find out, huh?

He was a fallen angel, Lucifer, translated, Light Bringer, the Morning Star. Satan means, The Adversary. He still has limited access to heaven. He tests us, with God's permission. God rewards those who pass with even greater things. (See Job) He (Lucifer) said man would not follow God willingly, that God must make them follow Him. God disagreed, and thus is how we are. So the question really is, who will you make right? God or Lucifer? It's all up to us.

[VegasRonin]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Satan means, The Adversary. He still has limited access to heaven. He tests us, with God's permission.[/quote]

Its interesting that you mentioned Job. Think of it logically. Your Satan has rose up with 1/4 of YOUR army to defeat you, to Dethrone you. You defeat him and banish him from Heaven. Now all of a sudden he has your ear? All of a sudden he has limited access to Heaven? To top it all off as well, you let him torture some of your most cherished people (after talking it over with you of course, maybe over tea?)? The real definition of Hell is not being in God's presence and being without reason. You my friend are in the latter definition of stated place.

[JuggaloXIII]

So you are God now? You have a view of the entire tapestry? You know the exact reason everything occurs? Why don't you wait until it's all said and done, then we can have a big pow-wow, and discuss what has come to pass. Until then, save the infantile attacks for the second grade. Its beneath both of us. And it certainly doesn't fit the atheist credo of tolerance and accepting that which is different than us.

Or is it do as I say, not as I do? That's calling the kettle black.

[VegasRonin]

You're right, didn't mean ta come across as a name caller. After reading my post I guess you could take it that way.

By the way. I'm not an Atheist.;)

[paul]

What contradictions? I'm unaware of any.

Peace,

Paul

[paul]

Actually, the Hebrew word heilel', translated "shining one," also means "brightness" and according to some Hebrew-English Lexicons, the entire expression "shining one, son of the dawn" means "morning star," which was the brightest star in the heavens.

The English Authorized Version uses the name Lucifer, as does also the Roman Catholic Douay Version of the Bible. Both were following the Latin Vulgate translation, which uses Lucifer, meaning "Light Bearer." Lucifer, however, is not the name of the King of Babylon. Lucifer, as a name, was applied to Satan the Devil by early uninspired religious writers of our Common Era. Notice that the Latin Vulgate uses the word lucifer again, in 2 Peter chapter 1 verse 19, and there applies it, not to Satan the Devil, but to the "day star" that was to arise for Christian hearts.

2 Peter chapter 1 verse 19 states: "Consequently we have the prophetic word made more sure; and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in your hearts."

So this term heilel, or lucifer, applies to Satan the Devil only as the earthly king of Babylon symbolizes that wicked spirit or reflects him. Of course, Satan the Devil was Babylon's real god and invisible king, as well as being ruler over modern-day Babylon the Great.

The first application of Isaiah chapter 14 verses 12 through 14, then, is to the human king of Babylon. That is why certain expressions, such as Sheol, are used in it. Satan the Devil was never in Sheol, hell, the grave, and never will be in it, for he is a spirit in the invisible heavens, whereas Sheol, hell, the grave is in the earth. It is where the visible, material, human dead are laid. Even Jesus Christ, after dying, was in Sheol, hell or the grave for parts of three days, as the apostle Peter himself said. Take note of Acts chapter 2 verses 27 through 32 and Psalms chapter 16 verse 10.

Isaiah chapter 14 verse 12 says: ""O how you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, you who were disabling the nations!"

This is the only place where this term ("Lucifer") in found in the Scriptures. And this is only true of certain versions, such as the King James, Douay, An American Translation, Knox, and Darby. The American Standard Version and the Revised Standard Version use the expression "Day Star"; Rotherham, "Shining One"; Moffatt, "shining star."

The King James Version at Isaiah chapter 14 verses 12 and 13 reads: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north."

The Hebrew word here translated Lucifer is Heylel. In the Septuagint Version it is rendered by the Greek word Heosphoros, which means "bringer of dawn." In Jerome's Latin Vulgate Version this word is translated "Lucifer," which accounts for its appearance in other versions, especially in Catholic versions. To appreciate just how the term "Lucifer" may be applied we must bear in mind the following points.

First, that this prophecy is directed primarily to the king of Babylon, who, by reason of his many conquests, especially that of the nation of Judah in 607 B.C., became world ruler and therefore like the bringer of dawn, the morning star Venus, which is the brightest of all celestial bodies aside from the sun and moon.

Secondly, that this prophecy is really a taunt song, as noted by Rotherham's translation of verse four: "Thou shalt take up this taunt over the king of Babylon." It is directed against one who exalted himself very highly and who is being taunted on his downfall.

And thirdly, we are not to consider these stars as literal stars or planets. In the Scriptures at times a glorious prince is termed a star, as we read in Numbers chapter 24 verse 17 which says: "I shall see him, but not now; I shall behold him, but not near. A star will certainly step forth out of Jacob, And a scepter will indeed rise out of Israel. And he will certainly break apart the temples of Mo'ab's head And the cranium of all the sons of tumult of war."

Since the princes or kings of Jerusalem were said to sit upon God's throne, it would be proper to speak of them as the "stars of God."

When, therefore, the king of Babylon took captive Zedekiah, the last king of Judah, he had exalted his throne above the stars of God, and he had in this sense made himself like the Most High. It is only at this time, when Satan, the god of the king of Babylon, truly became the "god of this system of things," that he was pictured by Babylon's king and therefore in a taunting way can be referred to as the Shining One or Lucifer.

2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4 states: "among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."

Thus we see that this title could not refer to the original perfection, beauty and jewellike brightness that he enjoyed as the covering cherub, which is described by the prophet Ezekiel at Ezekiel chapter 28 verses 14 through 17. It can only be applied in a taunting sense to Satan, and that only from 607 B.C. onward.

It's very important one is cautious in applying the Scriptures, when one represents God, so they correctly present God's Word when teaching others.

We can refer to Isaiah chapter 14 verses 12 through 16 on the issue of Satan the Devil being given the name Lucifer.

Again, the Authorized King James Version is quoted above. The word "Lucifer" is a translation of the Hebrew word heh-lel' or "shining one." Heh-lel', as it is used there, is not a personal name or title, but, rather, a term describing the brilliant position taken by Babylon's dynasty of kings in the line of Nebuchadnezzar. It wouldn't be correct to say that Satan the Devil is the one here called Lucifer as though it were one of his names. The expression here refers primarily to the king of Babylon, for, according to verse four, this is a "proverbial saying against the king of Babylon.

Isaiah chapter 14 verse 4 says: "that you must raise up this proverbial saying against the king of Babylon and say: "How has the one driving others to work come to a stop, the oppression come to a stop!""

Also, verses fifteen and sixteen of this chapter fourteen say that this "shining one" (Lucifer) is to be brought down to Sheol, which is mankind's common grave, not an abiding place for Satan the Devil.

Isaiah chapter 14 verses 15 and 16 states: ""However, down to She'ol you will be brought, to the remotest parts of the pit. Those seeing you will gaze even at you; they will give close examination even to you, saying, 'Is this the man that was agitating the earth, that was making kingdoms rock,'""

Furthermore, the fact is that those seeking the "shining one" brought into this condition say as is quoted above: "Is this the man that was agitating the earth, that was making kingdoms rock?" Satan is not a man but an invisible spirit creature. Thus, while the king of Babylon reflected the attitude of his father, the Devil, still the word Lucifer was not a name given to Satan the Devil. In "handling the word of truth aright" it is best to prepare to speak the clear sayings of God as we have them on the printed pages of the Bible.

Hope someone finds this of interest.

Peace,

Paul

[dutchie]

can't you keep it more "compact" paul? to me it's not very inviting....:mad:

[paul]

Dutchie,

Is there some sort of rule regarding length of posts?

Peace,

Paul

[steven marshall]

Paul,

Your knowledge of scripture is very impressive.

Can I ask you - how did you attain such knowledge? Surely this must be through years and years of study.

I admit, your posts are too long for me to decifer them, so I can't fully verify their accuracy. But I've not found any mistakes yet, and furthermore I agree with your interpretation of the scriptures.

God bless you Paul, there's not many like you around.

Steve

[paul]

Thanks, Steve! I appreciate the compliments. There are those who know way more than me, though, so my knowledge really isn't as impressive as many I've met.

Yes, I've studied the Scriptures from a very young age, when such questions as why we are here, what happens when we die, is there a God, why do we suffer, and all the typical questions that come to ones mind living in a world such as the one we do first came to mind.

Again, thank you for the kind words. Actually, you'll eventually find that there are many who have taken the time to look deeply into and decipher the original texts and the meaning and purpose behind them. I'm really no one special.


Peace,

Paul

[VegasRonin]

Hey Paul, I'll attempt to answer for Dutchie. There is no rule against lengthy posts but I think you'll get a lot more interest and responses if you shorten them up a bit. The content of your posts have been met with adulation, and you're posts are welcome. :) <strong>So register already!</strong> :evil:

[dutchie]

Paul,

Don't know if you noticed, but some days ago a new forum's been put up.

It is called: "Extremely Long Posts Consisting of Reams of Cut and Pasted Text That May Be Offensive but Nobody's Sure Because Nobody Bothers to Read Them Much Anyway"

Of course I am not accusing you of posting anything offensive; if you check out the Evolution topic here, you'll see that I am even coming to your defence. But your topics DON'T NEED TO BE SO LONG. I think it is smart policy and a general sign of intelligence to get your point across in a few short and clear sentences. It may be more difficult to manufacture, but it makes excellent reading, and I am sure you're clever enough to get that job done. Furthermore I don't think it is good policy to show off on your bible knowledge. I play the piano, and I can play it very fast. I am sure the people in my band would object if I'd constantly be playing scales at lightning speed... Get it?

VR is right: your contributions are appreciated very much. Why <em><strong>don't</strong></em> you register?

[evilwill88]

You better shorten your posts paul or you will incur the wrath of......

dutchie the mod! :rolleyes:

[beenthere]

All this lengthy discussion is pointless.

Satan is a creation of the Christian church in order to keep it in business. If there were no Satan or Hell, then Christians would have nothing to fear and thus, there would be no need to go to church, donate money to it, and ask forgiveness for the very sins that would damn them all to hell.

;)

[dutchie]

Well, I can understand your line of thought, but then you'd have to say that the devil was invented by the jews, because he's already present in the first 5 books of the Old Testament. The Good vs. Evil concept is however standard issue in all religions, I'm afraid.
This is also the deeper meaning to the existence of all religions: our desire to cope with these concepts, with our conscience.

[paul]

Hi Dutchie,

I haven't copy/pasted a single thing I've posted on this forum.

I don't register because I don't want to yet.

Peace,

Paul

[dutchie]

This quote I pasted myself:
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But your topics DON'T NEED TO BE SO LONG. I think it is smart policy and a general sign of intelligence to get your point across in a few short and clear sentences. It may be more difficult to manufacture, but it makes excellent reading, and I am sure you're clever enough to get that job done. Furthermore I don't think it is good policy to show off on your bible knowledge. I play the piano, and I can play it very fast. I am sure the people in my band would object if I'd constantly be playing scales at lightning speed... Get it?[/quote]
I did not say that you c/c/p your text.

Register if and when you want. Freedom!

[AngelTV]

For all those theologist out there. If God is all forgiving and the devil.satan or lucifer asked for forgiveness. Would he forgive them? Is evil another way to prove to those who see no miracles that there is a god? For if there is evil then there must be good. Some people accept evil before they accept god/good. Tragedy sometimes urges us to seek answers that only god can provide. It is a Yin and Yang thing that harmony requires both and an eqiliberium is acheived.

[dutchie]

Good question. You should make a topic out of it. Would the devil be forgiven if he truly repented???

[mickydoolittle]

for the devil to be forgiven if he truly repented would mean that god and the devil must first exist--otherwise, it's just a mind fuq

[Doomer]

Apparently God is the good guy and Satan is the bad one.

But, who is the one who doomed all humanity to death because of Adam's disobedience? -- God

Who is the one who drowned almost every man woman child and animal in the world? -- God

Who rains fire and brimstone on towns? Who kills on the slightest infraction? -- God

So, what did Satan do? How come he's the bad guy?

[DarkAce]

Apparently people who don't look back at history and the culture would realise Yahweh (God) wasn't a significant god of the jews and was the thunder god and war god. It took some time before he became the absolute.

Then again if you look even further back you realise that the god we know of today is just a figment of Abraham's imagination which he brought with him from the sumerian city Ur. His own "protector" God which the people developed after the elamites sacked their city.

[prezhorusin04]

Good points all, and Ace..

As well, Yah was an Egyptian god of the moon, 1000 years before the O.T., just as El is a supreme creator/moon god for the Hebrews..(As in El-ohim, and IsRa-El.)

To me, the personification of "Satan" is the mind set of those who would take upon the roll of god to manipulate and decieve humanity..The "light" bringers, masters of the "sacred fire".-
This fire is the age-old symbol for secret knowledge.Likewise, Kabbalah means "secret serpent wisdom", and we see the Cabal as the root of the word.

The serpent is also a symbol of this secret and hidden "sacred" knowledge. The serpent represents the phalic shape, as well as the structure of the double Helix of DNA. The Dragon is the SAME force/personification as that of the serpent.

When seen in conjunction, some of these peices allow us to begin to understand the clearer message about who and what the force of "Lucifer-The morning Star" really is.(NOTE:-The morning star is in fact VENUS)

[dutchie]

Symbols, symbols... It's all man-made. At some moment in time some fool (or clever thief) concocted the notion of a sumpreme being. In order to make it not too boring, they invented the opposing bad guy. Good and evil in an everlasting struggle. It's all so HUMAN, and it's been with us from the dawning of humanity.

Why has there never been mass enlightenment - to recognize there is just NOTHING?!? Puzzling...

[mysticalzoe]

I didn't read the whole thread but from what I have read of the bible Satan at one time was like the right hand angel for God, and since he wanted to be God, this is what I understand, he got kicked out of heaven and became a fallen angel. Now correct me if I am wrong but Lucifer means 'beautiful one' and Satan means 'evil one'. I don't know my Dad was into heavy christianity and for punishment he used to make me read the bible. I know it's crazy and all but he was wierd. That is all I have to say.

Jessica :smokin:

[dutchie]

I don't know my Dad was into heavy christianity and for punishment he used to make me read the bible. I know it's crazy and all but he was wierd.

Well, then we share a similar experience.. Don't know about you, but with me it all lead to a point where I decided to give up religion. I have witnessed how faith warps and twists people's minds to a point where you can safely say they're completely crazy and obsessed... :hater:

[Doomer]

Well, then we share a similar experience.. Don't know about you, but with me it all lead to a point where I decided to give up religion. I have witnessed how faith warps and twists people's minds to a point where you can safely say they're completely crazy and obsessed... :hater:
Amen to that brother dutchie.

[mysticalzoe]

yeah i am not what you would call a christian, actually it scares me, thanks again to my father, but I would have to agree with you, it's all brainwashing. My father was one of those extremists, before christianity heavy duty drugs, alcoholic, abusive to everyone in the family, to, going to church on sundays, prayer groups, to actually calling his own daughter (that would be me) a satanist, because I was in my dark clothes era. He even sold his house, car, everything he owned to go be with his cult, thats when it got scary for me.

Anyways sorry off topic.

jessica

[Strife]

Another thorny question in life left unsolvable. Regardless of anyone's opinions, it goes on and on!

Thats life, this is Wal..uh, Armageddon Online.

[humanhybrid]

Lucifer is a mysterious being that doesnt share in humanities wars, which brings to me that he also does not demand being a servant. Nor does he wish us to hell for not being a servant. Odd isnt it? Its god throughout the whole bible who condones wars.