Christians - if its written in the Bible, must it be true?

[armageddononline]

A lot of people quote the Bible as fact, assuming if it's written there it must be true. Why?

For thousands of years it was not even written down, just passed on by word of mouth. It has clearly contradicts our knowledge of science and history in parts, and seems to contradict itself.

Instead of arguing what I just said, what is the evidence for believing in the Bible? A lot of you are clearly very intelligent and have thought a lot about it, I'd just like to understand.

[dutchie]

I can not understand that people have no trouble at all believing that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, stayed in its stomach for a number of days and was spit out again. I can not believe that people are serious when they state they do believe that the sun stood still during a battle led by Joshua..

There are phenomena depicted as being miracles in the Bible, while they're clearly natural things, explained by science much later. People still cling to the Bible, why I can not understand. Maybe it is because they need a strong foundation for their feeble belief?

[armageddononline]

Don't get me wrong - I believe there was a guy called Jesus who noticed we'd all be happier if we were nice to each other.

It's some of the more absurd things, like Dutchie said, that I have a problem with.

[lazserus]

Has anyone ever read the Dhammapada? It's almost formatted as a series of fortunes you'd find in a cookie. These are nothing more than philosophies that merely represent a road to peace and happiness. I think the bible was intended to be the same. The difference is, that the bible discusses too much about creation, the end and super natural events that seem to give a weightlessness to the entire philosophy. This is where I believe things are going wrong. Because of the mention of the unrealistic, the philosophies were stunted and lost.

Those who interpret the bible literally are those who you speak of. I don't think the bible should be taken literally, but as a message and a philosophy.

[paul]

What science or history does it contradict? I'm unaware of any aside from scientific theories such as the origin of the universe and life as we know it, which is technically untestable to begin with. I personally think of evolution and abiogenisis as "psuedosciences." Science does have limits. Everything has limits. The theories of evolution and abiogenesis cross those limits IMHO.

Peace,

Paul

[armageddononline]

What science or history does it contradict? Evolution aside, there are lots of examples. Dutchie suggested Jonah in his whale. How about men who lose all their strength when their hair is chopped off?

[dutchie]

Yeah, I had it done to me when I was 19. Felt no different.:|

[EdgeCrusher666]

You see the bible itself is technically unstable in that it assumes throughout it that there is a god, that there is a satan, that jesus wasn't some ordinary jew who just looked different to the rest of them because he somehow had blue eyes or blonde hair in a world where most people had brown eyes and hair. Whenever an assumption is made (especially at the foundation of the theory) that the vaildation of a theory is weakend, this is something that holds true with the bible which is either a theory, a best selling fiction book or the truth.

[evilwill88]

And there isn't much evidence to support it being the truth.

I would have to agree with Laz. If the bible is going to be taken seriously it should not be taken literally or it ends up discrediting itself with all the supernatural stories.

[armageddononline]

The Bible is an intelligent read if taken as a collection of metaphors and fables. If taken literally it's ridiculous.

[fewfindit]

A modern word for the way the bible is worded, is encryption
Isaiah
13&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp But the word of the LORD was to them,
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Line upon line, line upon line,
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Here a little, there a little,”

there is a key

and to him who knocks it will be opened.8o
0]

[armageddononline]

So at the moment it's impossible to understand the meaning of the Bible???

[dutchie]

This is the classic example of the arrogance of the fanatics.:|

[lazserus]

yes sir, it sure is.

[VegasRonin]

I was always advised that the Bible is 100% true. You just have to interpret or have the right person, interpret it for you. :rolleyes: Just because we can comprehend the written word, doesn't mean we can understand the Bible. There are people out there with SPECIAL literary comprehension abilities. Don't ya know? :p

[dutchie]

It should be clear that no book of which the contence is clearly of religious nature can be accepted as being the indisputed truth. Only writings containing proven fact can be accepted as such - and then only when sufficient proof from different sources has been provided.

[paul]

>It should be clear that no book of which the contence >is clearly of religious nature can be accepted as being >the indisputed truth. Only writings containing proven >fact can be accepted as such - and then only when >sufficient proof from different sources has been >provided.

The Bible is a book that has stood its ground through time. There is much archaeological evidence supporting the truth of the books contained in the Scriptures.

Peace,

Paul

[evilwill88]

But that doesn't mean that everything is says is true.

The book could be based on 1/2 truths.

[Sagi_Zod]

So the world is flat, we burn when we go too much to the south and we fall off at the end.

And thou shall show no mercy: an eye for an eye; a tooth for a tooth; a life for a life.
(Old testament)

Great.
You want to actually live in a world like that?
That's based on the bible?

[Doomer]

When it comes to the bible, christians get crazy no matter how intelligent they are.

[dutchie]

To what side are you referring, eh Micky?!? :eek:

[kanati]

I can not believe that people are serious when they state they do believe that the sun stood still during a battle led by Joshua..

There is evidence of this event in other civilizations, notably the Chinese and in Central America at about this same time of Joshua's longest day.

The Chinese started observing the skies about 1600 bce and wrote of a day that lasted as two sometime shortly after they started keeping records. The event burnt up most of the vegetation throughout the land.

In Central America there is a legend of a night that lasted as two. It is also about the time of the demise of the Mayan civilization which ended when the people revolted against their priests. They worshipped a sun god coincidentally.

The truth can be stranger than fiction.

Kanati

[Keeblergiant]

There is evidence of this event in other civilizations, notably the Chinese and in Central America at about this same time of Joshua's longest day.

Yep, it's called a pole shift...it happens on the sun every 11 years.

[DontBeAfraid]

The chinese recorded no such day and neither did central america.....

Even if these cultures had a fable of such an event, its an impossibility.... Guess what happens to everything on earth if it stops spinning.

[kanati]

The chinese recorded no such day and neither did central america.....

http://sunnyokanagan.com/joshua/

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-33713.html

Just two quick references, it's past my bedtime...

I'll find some more in the morn.


Kanati

[Keeblergiant]

KG, your response...this disappoints -MD- to no end...wtf?

How so? All I did was try and show how such a thing is observed by different cultures...

[DontBeAfraid]

LOL...... thanks for that kanati..... Your first link is done by someone who admits the experts say it is an impossibility and your second is a link to a forum where the posts make reference to your first link. If that is what you find acceptable then I submit this link (http://forums.armageddononline.org/showpost.php?p=54693&postcount=27) as my proof that it didnt happen.


Have a little fun keebler.

[Keeblergiant]

DBA...I don't know where you get off questioning kanati's sources...

http://home.comcast.net/~shane_stephenson/thebiblesays.gif

Deal with it.

[kanati]

For the Egyptian account, we find that the French classical scholar, Fernand Crombette, translated some Egyptian hieroglyphics which tell of Joshua’s long day. The text starts out with an edict from the king to exempt from taxation those who had been victims of a flood some two weeks earlier. Evidently the flood had been caused by an unusually high tide. The cause, according to the Egyptian hieroglyphics, was:

The sun, thrown into confusion, had remained low on the horizon, and by not rising had spread terror amongst the great doctors. Two days had been rolled into one. The morning was lengthened to one-and-a-half times the normal period of effective daylight. A certain time after this divine phenomenon, the master had an image built to keep further misfortune from the country.




The second secular source about Joshua’s long day, which was mentioned by Totten, is based on what seems to be a recently lost ancient Chinese manuscript. In 1810 Gill presents the account:

In the Chinese history it is reported, that in the time of their seventh emperor, Yao, the sun did not set for ten days, and that men were afraid the world would be burnt, and there were great fires at that time; and though the time of the sun’s standing still were enlarged beyond the bounds of truth, yet it seems to refer to this fact, and was manifestly about the same time; for this miracle was wrought in the year of the world 2554, which fell in the 75th, or, as some say, the 67th year of that emperor’s reign, who reigned 90 years.



Tales relating to Joshua’s long day abound in North America. Almost all of the tales in North America tell of a long night. The only exceptions are those related in the chapter on Hezekiah’s sign. Olcott31 has collected five of particular interest.

1. The Ojibways tell of a long night without any light.32
2. The Wyandot Indians told missionary Paul Le Jeune of a long night.33
3. The Dogrib Indians of the North-West tell of a day when the sun was caught at noon and it instantly became dark.34
4. The Omahas say that once the sun was caught in a trap by a rabbit who checked his traps at the break of dawn, presumably before sunrise.35 (This may be Hezekiah’s sign, instead.) Finally,
5. the Bungee Indians from the Lake Winnipeg area of Canada also tell of a long night.



Turning to the south, we find that Central and South America similarly experienced a long night. In the Annals of Chauhtitlan, the Mexican Indians tell of a long night. The Aztecs wrote of an extended period of time when the sun did not rise. According to their legend, there had been no sun for many years.

... So a conclave of the gods was called in Teotihuacan, and there it was decided that one of them should offer himself as a sacrifice that once again the world might have a sun ... The sacrificed gods had disappeared in the brazier’s flames, but as there was no sign of the sun, the remaining wonder when it would first appear. At long last, the sun burst forth ... But the sun, despite his brilliant light, did not move; he hung on the edge of the sky, apparently unwilling to begin his appointed task.37

Likewise, in their national book the Popol Vuh, (which translates into “Book of the Princes,”) the Quiché Mayans of Guatemala wrote about the people’s reaction to a long night with these words:

They did not sleep; they remained standing and great was the anxiety of their hearts and their stomachs for the coming of the dawn and the day ... “Oh, ... if we only could see the rising of the sun! What shall we do now?” ... They talked, but they could not calm their hearts which were anxious for the coming of the dawn.


http://www.geocentricity.com/jld/

I knew that It was past my bedtime. Perhaps this will help you in your quest.

Kanati

[DontBeAfraid]

So God cannot utter an untruth and we must conclude that the Bible teaches, in Joshua 10:13 and else where, that the universe rotates around the earth once per day, carrying the sun, moon and stars with it, regardless of what introductory astronomy texts may say. - from your link....

Glad you cleared that up for me.... lol.

[kanati]

For the time being, the choice is either the Bible or the introductory astronomy texts: which do you believe?

Also from that link and in response to the original question of the thread.........

The Bible............

And from Albert Einstein............


"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."


"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."


"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, you think it's only a minute. But when you sit on a hot stove for a minute, you think it's two hours. That's relativity".

Kanati

[Keeblergiant]

And from Albert Einstein............

Those were merely philosophical quotes...they have nothing to do with actual physics.

[dutchie]

Let me get back to your remark about the poles of the sun shifting, KG..

This would NOT prevent the earth from rotating, so in effect we would NEVER experience a "double" day or a "double" night...

Am I right, or did I understand your post incorrectly? :dork:

[DontBeAfraid]

Dutchie i got the same impression....

[Keeblergiant]

It is believed (we haven't actually witnessed the reversal on earth, so we can't be sure) that during the reversal the field does not disappear, but becomes complex and weaker, and photons can more easily reach the atmosphere...or atleast that's how Dr. Stern of the Goddard Space Flight Center describes it...

[playmaker88]

And from Albert Einstein............


I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
-- Albert Einstein, following his wife's advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding "Do you believe in God?"

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955, quoted from James A. Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)

I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side

It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930

One strength of the Communist system ... is that it has some of the characteristics of a religion and inspires the emotions of a religion.
-- Albert Einstein, Out Of My Later Years (1950)

It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion.
-- Albert Einstein

Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being.
-- Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if scientists pray.

I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It

I am convinced that some political and social activities and practices of the Catholic organizations are detrimental and even dangerous for the community as a whole, here and everywhere. I mention here only the fight against birth control at a time when overpopulation in various countries has become a serious threat to the health of people and a grave obstacle to any attempt to organize peace on this planet.
-- Albert Einstein, letter, 1954

God does not play at dice with the Universe.
-- Albert Einstein,

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side

The mystical trend of our time, which shows itself particularly in the rampant growth of the so-called Theosophy and Spiritualism, is for me no more than a symptom of weakness and confusion. Since our inner experiences consist of reproductions, and combinations of sensory impressions, the concept of a soul without a body seem to me to be empty and devoid of meaning.
The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. The religion which based on experience, which refuses dogmatic. If there's any religion that would cope the scientific needs it will be Buddhism....
If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.
Immortality? There are two kinds. The first lives in the imagination of the people, and is thus an illusion. There is a relative immortality which may conserve the memory of an individual for some generations. But there is only one true immortality, on a cosmic scale, and that is the immortality of the cosmos itself. There is no other.
-- Albert Einstein

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.
-- Albert Einstein

[Defiant Noquisi]

Tales relating to Joshua’s long day abound in North America. Almost all of the tales in North America tell of a long night. The only exceptions are those related in the chapter on Hezekiah’s sign. Olcott31 has collected five of particular interest.

1. The Ojibways tell of a long night without any light.32
2. The Wyandot Indians told missionary Paul Le Jeune of a long night.33
3. The Dogrib Indians of the North-West tell of a day when the sun was caught at noon and it instantly became dark.34
4. The Omahas say that once the sun was caught in a trap by a rabbit who checked his traps at the break of dawn, presumably before sunrise.35 (This may be Hezekiah’s sign, instead.) Finally,
5. the Bungee Indians from the Lake Winnipeg area of Canada also tell of a long night. I can tell you for a fact that occurences such as described above did occur and are passed down in our oral histories. However, none of them prove that the bible is factual. Indigenous people were well "learned" scholars of sky based sciences, even knowing what lay beyond the "naked eye" and did describe that which could not be seen without visual aides such as telescopes. This amazed early scientists to the "new" world.

How is it possible to use proof from Indigenous people who knew and understood the sky during a time when other countries and cultures (specifically the Holy areas) had no such knowledge?

Likewise, the Mayans had vast knowledge of sciences, specifically mathematics and astrology which the Spaniards destroyed by burning the entirety of their libraries because such knowledge was considered "evil". This knowledge, even then was way beyond the scope of even the most educated of "civilized" people.

I dont see any possible way anyone can use the knowledge and history of Indian people as proof of biblical statements. However, I do see where writers of it can prove the legitimacy (if the writers could be considered "legitimate") of the intelligence of the Indigenous of the Americas.

[playmaker88]

someone learned how to copy, paste, and post. :Blbl:

Do you suggest I just make up my own Einstein quotes pussycat? How the hell I'm supposed to quote Einstein any other way is a mystery to me. (Probably because I'm an idiot right?) So if you'd like to clue me up on how to do this, I'm all ears.

[playmaker88]

Maybe that way I could've learnt all the Einstein quotes and recited them off the top of my head. Still, life's too short, point and click, copy and paste is far more efficient.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Okay kids, play nice or that supreme being will put the big ol spankin on you. Bahahahahaha!!!!! :Bott:

[repentantsinner]

Hav'nt any of you gonr thru times that seemed like "luck" with no other explination. Hav'nt you read the bible and found yourselves described. If there is creation there is a creator, if bad things happen it's punishment. Do you really think some hydrogen and oxygyn elements got together and created life? Are you so powerfull that there is no life force stronger and above you. If it is all a fluke why are you up in arms when you are insulted? Are you so full of yourself you don't believe in the miracle of conception? How do clouds full of thousands of pounds of rain float? Why is the earth just the right distance from the sun? What HAS protected us from all the NEOs. Do you people think you are the final say when you can't agree with eachother. Hav'nt you ever been attacked by the devil, that itself proves GOD is real. You are so ungratefull, it is a good thing GOD is understanding. There will come a time though............... :52:

[Keeblergiant]

Hav'nt any of you gonr thru times that seemed like "luck" with no other explination.

There's always an explanation...it's just most people attribute it to "luck" or "miracles" (I consider them both a load of crock) because it is the easiest way to explain it, or because they want it to be luck or a miracle.


Hav'nt you read the bible and found yourselves described.

I also find humans described by evolution and genetics (physical descriptions) and by psychology (behavioral and mental description).


If there is creation there is a creator

Why does the creator have to be God? The "creation" (if that's even a good term to use) is mainly a product of natural selection.


if bad things happen it's punishment

I see no way, AT ALL, to justify this statement.


Do you really think some hydrogen and oxygyn elements got together and created life?

Actually, I believe that it was carbon dioxide, hydrogen (in the H_2 form), methane, nitrogen (in the N_2 form), and water vapor, with some minor variations. And they didn't create life at first, but it was originally some form of self replicator (more than likely related to RNA), then it became preprotobacteria, then protobacteria, then it gradually evolved into bacteria, with bacteria being the actual living product.


Are you so powerfull that there is no life force stronger and above you.

I haven't heard anyone assert that during the course of this thread, although if you want to go by what is observable (and I consider it idiotic to do otherwise, as there is no reason nor proof beyond observation), then yes, we are so far the most powerful life form.


If it is all a fluke why are you up in arms when you are insulted?

Who called anything a fluke?


Are you so full of yourself you don't believe in the miracle of conception?

Why do I have to be full of myself to consider simply consider conception as conception, and nothing more. In fact, it would seem that you would have to be full of yourself to consider it more than it is.


How do clouds full of thousands of pounds of rain float?

Because the cloads aren't full of thousands of pounds or rain, but rather the water droplets and ice crystals are what mainly compose the clouds. And, the thousands of pounds are spread out over a very large area, so that the actual density is extremely light (lighter than a feather, actually), and it only rains when this density becomes too great to actually hold the water anymore. So, actually, you could claim that "clouds full of thousands of pounds of rain" don't float, because by the time they reach that point it begins to rain.


Why is the earth just the right distance from the sun?

This is a big creationist myth. The thing is, we aren't the right distance from the sun. Believe it or not, Venus has a very similar atmosphere to earth (although much more pressurized), and if it hadn't suffered from a runaway greenhouse effect (the same greenhouse effect that is beginning to effect us), it would probably have life on it right now. Same thing goes for Mars, except for it's very thing atmosphere suffered the opposite of that on Venus. And, you are also forgetting that the "few degrees" of error allowable that most creationists claim (which is wrong to begin with) is necessary for life on earth, is actually magnified to an error of a few hundred thousand miles because of the distance from earth to the sun.


What HAS protected us from all the NEOs.

I would say gravity, but that would be implying that we are protected from NEOs. Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago, but life didn't begin until around 3.8 billion years ago because of heavy comet and asteroid collisions. And, I assume you've heard about how the dinosaurs became extinct?


Do you people think you are the final say when you can't agree with eachother.

No, why would I be? Unless you are discussing opinions (in which case no one is really right), then the final say actually comes from observation of the way nature works.


Hav'nt you ever been attacked by the devil, that itself proves GOD is real.

Ummmm no. I've never been attacked by the devil, sorry.


You are so ungratefull, it is a good thing GOD is understanding.

If God thinks I'm ungrateful, let him tell me...not you.


There will come a time though...............

Yep...when the sun dies...

So, in conclusion, you have actually written a useless paragraph of information (if you consider a plethora of rhetorical questions information). Actually, I take that back...a paragraph with as much useless and wrong information as yours can surely help psychologists with diagnosing future mentally handicapped children.

[repentantsinner]

I don't know how old you are or what you have been through in your life. One thing is for certain though GOD will eventually get your attention, unless of courde you are a sasint in which case yoiu would be open to a power greater than you're own cynicism.GOd has been around forever and a few years of hell for you are nothing except to your own ego,.

[DontBeAfraid]

rewrite that please.... its too hard to follow.

[Keeblergiant]

One thing is for certain though GOD will eventually get your attention, unless of courde you are a sasint in which case yoiu would be open to a power greater than you're own cynicism.

God had my attention for 12 years, and he lost it. There is no proof of his existence, nor will there be.


GOd has been around forever and a few years of hell for you are nothing except to your own ego

So...You're telling me that I'm going to hell because I don't agree with you and I'm the one with an ego?

[repentantsinner]

Youare so concerned with yourself you missed the point. If you have a fear of hell it's your own fault'

[Keeblergiant]

I don't fear hell for the same reason I'm not afraid that little elves will pop out from under my bed tonight and sacrifice me to the dragons.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Hav'nt any of you gonr thru times that seemed like "luck" with no other explination.Nope, in my culture there is no "luck" but there is spiritual power and all good times are attributed to the Creator. However we dont have to bandy our beliefs around as some kind of badge of honor.


Hav'nt you read the bible and found yourselves described.Nope


Hav'nt you ever been attacked by the devil, that itself proves GOD is real.There is no devil. The "evil" you speak of is mankind's own manifestation. It "proves" nothing. You believe because of faith. Faith jumps in when science and logic cant back something up. You cant prove nor disprove the existance of a higher power. Running and hiding behind a book written and published by men and translated so much that the original meanings may be lost is a fruitless endevour. :drool:

[Defiant Noquisi]

I don't fear hell for the same reason I'm not afraid that little elves will pop out from under my bed tonight and sacrifice me to the dragons.Hey watch it now. Dragons are real and a bunch of em live near Joe. Ssshhhhh.

[Defiant Noquisi]

GOd has been around forever and a few years of hell for you are nothing except to your own ego,.While forgetting about your own no doubt. Why do some christians seem to be so easily arrogant?

[repentantsinner]

Weve all been warned in the last days there will be scoffers. It's almost amazing how you can deny a power greater than yourselves and call me arrogant. You can debunk christianity all you want, but you don't even know enough about to see why i write that i'm ALMOST amazed by your disbelief.

[repentantsinner]

I don't fear hell for the same reason I'm not afraid that little elves will pop out from under my bed tonight and sacrifice me to the dragons. Then you must do absolutely nothing that could be considered wrong. WOW AO community here we have a perfect human being. No wonder he considers himself a giant.

[repentantsinner]

While forgetting about your own no doubt. Why do some christians seem to be so easily arrogant? Not quite so arrogant as smug. I like to laugh at you scoffers sometimes. It's obvious someone let me in on a secret you don't know. I'll laugh even louder if you have to learn the way i learned.

[Death Rattle]

Not quite so arrogant as smug. I like to laugh at you scoffers sometimes. It's obvious someone let me in on a secret you don't know. I'll laugh even louder if you have to learn the way i learned.
Let me guess you used to be a bad person. What was it alchohol, drugs, you were in jail for something. You have hurt alot of people and now are a born again. If you think that you can live a horrible life and with a few words to jesus be reborn your the one whos got something to learn. :crazy:

[repentantsinner]

So true and i really had to learn the hard way. Hell can be on earth and the lake of fire can be a state of mind. Maybe i should tone down the rhetoric a bit because the big daddy sure did have to spank the shit out of me before i learned.

[Keeblergiant]

Weve all been warned in the last days there will be scoffers.

Are you a Jehova's witness or something? I just burned a bunch of those damned Jehova's witness books the other day...


It's almost amazing how you can deny a power greater than yourselves and call me arrogant.

If there is a power greater than us then you must be able to prove it...


Then you must do absolutely nothing that could be considered wrong.

How do you derive this? The point of my statement was that I'm not afraid of hell because it doesn't exist, not that I'm not afraid of hell because I don't sin. If you didn't understand that from my post then you're a moron, but then again if you did understand it and you still posted this irrelevant remark you're still a moron...so either way, you lose!


WOW AO community here we have a perfect human being.

I try not to brag (HA)...


And, on a side note, I wonder why it's the drug problems that lead people to God? :nudge:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Not quite so arrogant as smug. I like to laugh at you scoffers sometimes. It's obvious someone let me in on a secret you don't know. I'll laugh even louder if you have to learn the way i learned.No, I posted arrogance and meant it. Ive been a member of many a christian church and done much study of biblical texts. I wont deny that Jesus existed because there is mention of him in early Greek and Roman philisophical writings.

However, when one runs around spewing bs to those who do not believe the same, not only are they going against their own scriptural beliefs (aka hypocrite) they usually do it in an arrogant manner. That hypocrisy is why I left christianity. I saw the light! Ive been SAVED!

I do believe in a supreme being, an end of time and I do believe the earth will be purged. However, in my beliefs its people like you who are gonna get it.

Case in point, I am not laughing at you nor will I, unlike you. But I wont feel sorry for you either. People like you have been notoriously arrogant thinking you are better than people like me for hundreds of years.

Some believer you are. :Blbl:

[dutchie]

It's this gloating about the harsh fate of the "damned" that truly brings out the best in born again Christians. I've always been under the impression that Jesus taught us to love one another, but the "gni gni gni (sadistic grinning), you assholes will burn, you'll learn the hard way, gna gni heh heh heh" does not show off that quality your saviour so abundantly tried to spread around at all... :2thumbs:

[Rynotek]

Hey Repentant

The fire and brimstone thing is pretty old hat... If you love Jesus, follow his example, question those that claim to be the authority on Religion, because when a man is weak and these guys tell you what you want to hear, build you up all nice and strong, only to use you as a mouth peice for their own purposes. If you had a rough time and used religion to get through it thats all good. I personally think that when Jesus accepted the sick and the so called sinners into his arms, he was doing this to show everyone else that there was no reason to be stigmatising people. Man, its the fuqin Pharasises that will pay the price, the manipluators, the truely evil. Shit im sure im going to do a spell in purgtory, but i intend to bring a good book, some long life batteries and the biggest ass mp3 player they have in the lobby. Relax man, im sure you haved payed what ever price for all the stoopid shit you pulled. Just dont shove it down everyones throat.

[repentantsinner]

OK Rynotek, i was backsliding again, all night iv'e been wondering whether th mellow out or truly become a troll, not only online but in real life. Like any body else i can do some real damage when truly crossing over. It makes my skin crawl to think i'll have to pay for the things i've only thought about doing to people. It would have been fun to see how long it would take to get banished, do you realize how much insulting fun can be made of peoples names here. Ssssuuuurrreeeee, i don't bother anybody. Once again somebodyn has pulled me back from the brink, hats off to you, you are a very level headed person.

[Defiant Noquisi]

If you are forthright in what you posted repentant thats great. It one thing to post your opinion but its quite another to put yourself higher than others because of it. There are other christians here that while Ive gone rounds with them at times, they dont get all arrogant about it. For an example read LC Jeffries posts. I havent always agreed with her and shes gotten upset on occasion, but she doesnt get all "Im better than you" either. At least from what I remember.

Just where has she (LC) got to anyway?

[dutchie]

Why do you think the hard times in your life are attributed to an alleged all powerful being subjecting you to torment in order to gain your insignificant human attention?

Choices, choices... It's all about choice really. I really believe we all can influence our fate by choice. Some choose to have bad times, and subsequently choose to dive into religion. It's not your choice, it's not mine. Personally I don't care what choice people make - whatever helps them through their meager existence, fine by me.

But like the man said, you can crap on the edge of my plate, as long as you don't splatter it all around...

[playmaker88]

It's almost amazing how you can deny a power greater than yourselves and call me arrogant. You can debunk christianity all you want, but you don't even know enough about to see why i write that i'm ALMOST amazed by your disbelief.

The arrogance is in the belief that a couple of prayers a day and a few words of worship and thanksgiving is enough to hold you in this supposed supreme beings presence for eternity. The arrogance is in the belief that there must be more to life than life. The arrogance comes from the fact that you believe that you and those like you are that important.

[lordofthemystic]

Believers, bring your Bibles to me. I have things to write.