True Blue American

[Death Rattle]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041124/D86I8Q7O0.html
Now this is a person we should all admire. These are the people that make this country the best in the world. :2thumbs:

[Keeblergiant]

Holy hell...they actually consider 72 year olds for deployment? Nice...

[repentantsinner]

At 72 she has lived the best of her life. I think she wants to die as she lived, serving the troops. Iraq is getting worse not better. :52:

[Emerald_Dragon]

of course its getting worse. but try telling that to Bush-lovers.

i think she's got a death wish too. at that age, i don't want to die in my sleep. i can't believe that its so bad, that they'll let 72 y/o volunteers to go.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Now this is a person we should all admire. These are the people that make this country the best in the world. :2thumbs: I dont question the validity of her decision but I do question the arrogance by which you make that "best country in the world" statement. Im sure the people of other countries who post here will highly disagree with such ignorance. :Bott:

[Death Rattle]

I dont question the validity of her decision but I do question the arrogance by which you make that "best country in the world" statement. Im sure the people of other countries who post here will highly disagree with such ignorance. :Bott:
Funny how everyone is so quick to attack. This woman does something great and you condem the government. What if kerry was president? Then she would be a hero and so would the government. Hey Defiant i don't here you whining about your tax free casino money. You get more free rides than anyone in this country you have nothing to bitch about. :headbang:

[PunkRockMaL7]

If the women wants to fight...let her fight...Its not the army or gov. went to her and asked her to join...the didnt recruit her, she volunteered....you people all jump to conclusions way to fast ... what she is doing is great and i wish more people had the courage and balls she does...ROCK ON

[Death Rattle]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/29/jordans.brother.ap/index.html
Heres another great American you Bush Haters can all trash. :jamn:

[repentantsinner]

I did a stint in the army and if James Jordan made it to command sgt. major there has got to be SOMETHING special about him.

[Emerald_Dragon]

i don't consider it an attack or jumping to conclusions. i thought it may not be the best volunteering choice. i mean, wouldn't a 72 y/o in a combat zone be detrimental in a tense situation? someone with 30 years experience wanting to stay is much more of an asset, wouldn't it?

what she's doing is brave. but i still think she has a deathwish. to die fighting, that's pretty noble, in my book. if i were a general, i'd reconsider allowing her to volunteer, over there. i'd prefer to keep her stateside supporting logistics, not abroad in a PX, which could become a target. but that's me and that's why i'm not a general, i can't make those decisions without hesitating.

[edit: one more thing. DN was attacking your arrogant remarks, not the 72 y/o. how did you misinterpret the distinction?]

[DontBeAfraid]

Death Rattle has a low reading comprehension level.... part of the reason he likes bush.

[dutchie]

Funny how everyone is so quick to attack. This woman does something great and you condem the government. What if kerry was president? Then she would be a hero and so would the government. Hey Defiant i don't here you whining about your tax free casino money. You get more free rides than anyone in this country you have nothing to bitch about. :headbang:
BHAHAHAHAHA!!!! A 72 year old to go to Iraq?!? And you are proud of THAT?!? I'd say that any government agreeing to 72 year old people being sent off to a warzone should be ashamed. Ridiculous. And apart from that, the best country in the world is not the USA, it is of course Andorra. :Blbl:

[2cool4stats]

Funny how everyone is so quick to attack. This woman does something great and you condem the government. What if kerry was president? Then she would be a hero and so would the government. Hey Defiant i don't here you whining about your tax free casino money. You get more free rides than anyone in this country you have nothing to bitch about. :headbang:

Actually he wasn't condemning your government. He was condemning the arrogance of your "best country in the world" statement. Big difference.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Hey Defiant i don't here you whining about your tax free casino money. You get more free rides than anyone in this country you have nothing to bitch about. :headbang:Immature and ignorant attacks from pimply faced teenagers, jeebus.

I wouldnt know about these "free rides" you are suggesting since you make wild accusations with absolutely no proof to back them up. Just what are you going on about? There is no free ride in anything youngster and someday when you grow up and cut the umbilical cord youll see that truth.

As for "tax free" casino money, let me clue your ignorance in. The same government you say Im condemning here is also the same government who passed federal law that says soveriegn Indian nations have the legal right to own and operate casinos. Many of those casinos are in existence because of negotiations with the states they are in. So while you in your gleefull pea-sized brain manner may believe the money is tax free, it is not without some stipend or tax to the states they operate in. Look up the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act yourself as well as state laws. http://www.yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/news/IGRA.htm

Additionally, many of the casinos have made it possible for the Nations that own them to completely get off the government dole or greatly reduce it. If this escapes you it means less tax dollars to Indian nations. Look to the casino of the Onieda Nation for an example of this. They no longer get any government money. NONE And they arent the only one.

Many of the areas these casinos are located in what were impovershed areas which means very little in the way of jobs or local economy. Because of these casinos the local economy is better, people have better housing and access to health care as well as being gainfully employed. This doesnt just transend to Indian Nations either, everyone in the local economy benefits.

Let me point your arrogance in the right direction. The welfare system of this country is fraught with "free rides". It got so bad that the takers of it had to be forced by government mandate to get off their asses and get jobs. Most welfare reicipients are located in areas that are better off than the areas reservations are located which makes it easier for them to be gainfully employed. The system while better, is still fraught with misuse. I dont see you complaining about it.

I also havent seen any instance where Indians had to be forced to get jobs or better themselves in some way. They are doing it by choice and through not only casinos but also in many other types of service and industry. Believe it or not, even GOLF is benefitting. http://www.pga.com/news/industry/businessinsider/bizinsider101904.cfm You can go ahead and be jealous because they are successful but dont take it out on me because you arent.

Let me also clue you in on another fact. The money from casinos is doled out by the tribal Nations under what auspices the Nation agreed to. In case you might not understand the concept they did this through voting or some other democratic form of negotiation and approval within the tribe. Just because a Nation has a casino does not neccessarily mean that each tribal member gets a check from it. For many of them the money goes directly into tribal coffers for use by the Nation, not singular individuals.

Many of the tribes who do pay out monetary funds to its members also include the option if one chooses, to not take the check which instead stays within the tribal coffers for use within the tribe. Many people do not take the money, many of them do.

Ill also throw in that the system has been abused by tribal leaders. They have also been caught, prosecuted and did time like anyone else would for skimming and such. The Nations dont take it lightly, even in their own courts. If my Kevin Smith avatar sporting buddy would like to throw something into this he is welcome to do so.

Lastly, while Bush proclaims to uphold American values and laws and can give a great example that he only does when he chooses to do so. Here is a small tribe who established a casino and mind you, it was against an original agreement made with Bush if he didnt oppose them becoming federally recognized, which he kept his word. It was also when the state of Texas did not recognize gambling of any form. Then the laws changed and gambling was allowed. So, under the new state laws the Tigua's opened a casino. It wasnt until the Tigua's donated money to a Bush opponent that the casino was closed. Mind you, the Kickapoo's still operate their casino in Texas.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0424/p03s01-ussc.html
http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2004_3rd/Sept04_EaglePass.html

Nevermind that casinos help the local economy, nevermind that by opening casinos the Nations get out from under poverty and take less government money. By rights Bush could close them down but for what reason was it a positive measure. Especially in these economic times. Oh yes, just as long as they would never piss off Bush...

Oh excuse me, that wasnt Bush. It was his buddy in the state Attorney General's office. Still, since many improvements were being made, not only tribaly but with road construction as well, the closing down of this casino remains socially and politically unjustified since they could have been allowed by state mandate, to continue operating.

http://www.casinoman.net/Content/casino_gambling_news/gambling_news_article.asp?artid=63

http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article.cfm?contentID=146886

The last one isnt even about Indian casinos.

Id suggest youngster, that before you arrogantly post wild accusations you at least do your homework first. POST YOUR PROOF! I wont hesitate to make you look a fool if you dont and it doesnt take much effort to do so.

[Death Rattle]

Don't even get me started on the onieda nation. They don't need anymore government money. They are currently finishing a five hundred room hotel to go along with there giant casino. They have been given even more land back from the state not including what they have bought with their four hundred million dollars a year casino that the state built for them. They own almost the entire county now. Gas stations, Grocery stores,Etc.... Oh and lets not forget the reservation where you can go buy TAX FREE cigarettes. And the final and most ridiculous freebee in the great state of N.Y. if you can prove you are at least one eighth indian you go to any state college for free. I used to live there i know all about it. Your constant whining about the poor american indian is a joke. There are alot of other minoritys that get a whole lot less. :2fu:

[Death Rattle]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB0D6CD62E.html
Heres yet another hero you can all put down and critisize.

[DontBeAfraid]

listen gock cobbler,
Many of the people on this board have been in. TONS of people enlist EVERY DAY! So until you post about how YOU are enlisting nobody is going to care.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Don't even get me started on the onieda nation. They don't need anymore government money.Where have you been Sherlock? Theyve been off the government dole for years! A little slow on the uptake are you? Jealous perhaps? So what if they are building a gigantic hotel? You think Pataki is giving them a free ride? Youre an enormous fool if you think that! Maybe you should have gone after Pataki and company and blame them for signing the agreements instead of just blaming the Oniedas because youre jealous. Wah, wah wah. Its all those big bad Indians fault that they developed and run a successful business venture. Pataki wanted his finger in the pie and got it so the state gets benefits from it too. I suppose youve shed tears about the Seneca's new casino too which is also in partnership with the state.

Your constant whining about the poor american indian is a joke. There are alot of other minoritys that get a whole lot less. :2fu:Constant whining huh? Just like anything else you fail to prove ANYTHING and cry alligator tears because it's pointed out to you. WAH WAH WAH! Dont blame me that Indians are utilizing the American Way. All your whining and complaining proves is that you are jealous.

Seems to me you havent spent much time at any rez store since the majority that I see are non-Indian people patronizing those establishments. You just dont get it do you? Indian stores help the local economy and if you can point out and prove ANY Indian store that wouldnt sell cheap non-taxed cigs to non-Indians you would prove a valid point. You cant so instead youre going to complain about it. Cry your river and take your smelly diapers somewhere else.

By the way, this free college you speak of. Where? How is it that you say that enrolled members get to go free yet a good portion of my relations cant afford to go hmm? Again, you make wild accusations and post NOTHING to back it. Then you whine, piss and moan because there are people such as myself who dont fall to the ground and worship your very essence.

Yeah, how bout this Fletch. It was because of all those welfare recipients and other financial miscreants that skipped out on their medical bills that forced a sales tax on hospitalization. Thats right! People skipped out on their medical bills and the state couldnt afford to pay it all! Guess what? They passed the cost onto anyone making a trip to the doctor! I dont see you whining about that huge pile of BS, oh no!

Yeah, its all the big ol mean Indians fault that they are bettering their lives, helping the local economies and providing less costly goods and services to the local communities. Wow, we supposedly live in a democracy, have a free economy and because Indians are becoming successful at it you complain. Oooohhhh, scary! Are you racist? You dont seem to be complaining about anyone else. :gtfo:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Many of the people on this board have been in. TONS of people enlist EVERY DAY! So until you post about how YOU are enlisting nobody is going to care.I think its this concept he's missing....


"He believes that (the military) is part of public service."

Note, public service not public whining.

Based on percentage to population more American Indians enlist (i.e. VOLUNTEER) than any other ethnic group but he'll find someway to mock and cry about that too.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1112nativevet.html
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/ok04_cole/nativeamercont.html
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123007146
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq61-1.htm

See the above DR? Thats called backing up what I post. A concept that seems to escape you.

[angel]

So they're allowing this woman to go, which means all the people who said I would volunteer if I weren't to old can't use that as an excuse? ummmmmmm. Let me call some folks....lol

Death Rattle do you plan on enlisting???? You seem to have some very strong opinions about the war. I'm sure they could use you over there? A smart guy like yourself....

[dutchie]

No, the poor sod is 15 - they won't let him in... What a pity... And how justfully he speaks his mind about these things... :Bott:

[PunkRockMaL7]

I want to know why its such a big deal that a 72 year old who WANTS to go over there on her own free will is being put down so much and now all the sudden its the goverments fault for letting her go...I thought anyone over the age of 18 who was willing to volunteer for enlistment was able to serve the country...shouldnt matter how old you are as long as you realize the consequences...If i remember correctly back in WWII many older men were enlisted (not voluntarily) to go to war...that was ok then...why not now when someone is giving service to their country...not only young men and women feel the need to fight for their country...i think its awesome that this woman and anyone else who volunteers their services to the country and they should be greatly rewarded...whether or not you agree with this war or not serving your country would be the best thing you could possibly do... :band:

[DontBeAfraid]

18-38(maybe only 34 i dont remember) year olds are all thats normally allowed to enlist.

[Death Rattle]

I want to know why its such a big deal that a 72 year old who WANTS to go over there on her own free will is being put down so much and now all the sudden its the goverments fault for letting her go...I thought anyone over the age of 18 who was willing to volunteer for enlistment was able to serve the country...shouldnt matter how old you are as long as you realize the consequences...If i remember correctly back in WWII many older men were enlisted (not voluntarily) to go to war...that was ok then...why not now when someone is giving service to their country...not only young men and women feel the need to fight for their country...i think its awesome that this woman and anyone else who volunteers their services to the country and they should be greatly rewarded...whether or not you agree with this war or not serving your country would be the best thing you could possibly do... :band:
Thank You thats excactly what i was trying to get across to these anti war people. They would probably spit on the old lady for volunteering if they could. Obviuosly not one of these people have any loved ones over there.

[Death Rattle]

Where have you been Sherlock? Theyve been off the government dole for years! A little slow on the uptake are you? Jealous perhaps? So what if they are building a gigantic hotel? You think Pataki is giving them a free ride? Youre an enormous fool if you think that! Maybe you should have gone after Pataki and company and blame them for signing the agreements instead of just blaming the Oniedas because youre jealous. Wah, wah wah. Its all those big bad Indians fault that they developed and run a successful business venture. Pataki wanted his finger in the pie and got it so the state gets benefits from it too. I suppose youve shed tears about the Seneca's new casino too which is also in partnership with the state.
Constant whining huh? Just like anything else you fail to prove ANYTHING and cry alligator tears because it's pointed out to you. WAH WAH WAH! Dont blame me that Indians are utilizing the American Way. All your whining and complaining proves is that you are jealous.

Seems to me you havent spent much time at any rez store since the majority that I see are non-Indian people patronizing those establishments. You just dont get it do you? Indian stores help the local economy and if you can point out and prove ANY Indian store that wouldnt sell cheap non-taxed cigs to non-Indians you would prove a valid point. You cant so instead youre going to complain about it. Cry your river and take your smelly diapers somewhere else.

By the way, this free college you speak of. Where? How is it that you say that enrolled members get to go free yet a good portion of my relations cant afford to go hmm? Again, you make wild accusations and post NOTHING to back it. Then you whine, piss and moan because there are people such as myself who dont fall to the ground and worship your very essence.

Yeah, how bout this Fletch. It was because of all those welfare recipients and other financial miscreants that skipped out on their medical bills that forced a sales tax on hospitalization. Thats right! People skipped out on their medical bills and the state couldnt afford to pay it all! Guess what? They passed the cost onto anyone making a trip to the doctor! I dont see you whining about that huge pile of BS, oh no!

Yeah, its all the big ol mean Indians fault that they are bettering their lives, helping the local economies and providing less costly goods and services to the local communities. Wow, we supposedly live in a democracy, have a free economy and because Indians are becoming successful at it you complain. Oooohhhh, scary! Are you racist? You dont seem to be complaining about anyone else. :gtfo:
First of all i am not whining. I am sick and tired of you whining. I have read your previous posts. I think most americans know the score. Go get your handout and shut the f up. :gtfo:

[DontBeAfraid]

I would spit on you if i could. So would most of the friends I have in iraq right now.

[Death Rattle]

I would spit on you if i could. So would most of the friends I have in iraq right now.
Your so full of sh*t i can smell you from here. If you knew anyone over there you would have a totally different attitude. Fugin Fag. :gtfo:

[DontBeAfraid]

You are a joke kid..... I know people(many from my old unit) over there and I want them to come back, what other attitude should I have?

I have one friend(who joined the marines the same time I joined the army) who is making about 120k a year over there as a private security guard, I would let him stay.

to myself: Why do I care what a little kid thinks of me anyways?

[Death Rattle]

You are a joke kid..... I know people(many from my old unit) over there and I want them to come back, what other attitude should I have?

I have one friend(who joined the marines the same time I joined the army) who is making about 120k a year over there as a private security guard, I would let him stay.

to myself: Why do I care what a little kid thinks of me anyways?
Uh Huh. What unit in which division? :schizo:

[dutchie]

Your so full of sh*t i can smell you from here. If you knew anyone over there you would have a totally different attitude. Fugin Fag. :gtfo:

Consider this post to be your second serious warning.

You can insult me all you want, I don't care. But if your start insulting other members here, your ass will be toast faster than you can say " "... :ban:

[DontBeAfraid]

101st - 3/502

This kid thinks he knows me.....

[PunkRockMaL7]

If you knew anyone over there you would have a totally different attitude.

I totally agree with you. I know a lot of people over there. I also know people in Korea where its just as bad. People die there everyday too. But anyways, my point being that i feel greatful that these people are volunteering so that i dont have to...but i would in a heart beat if asked. I could volunteer but i couldnt leave my little girl behind. If i was older and my kid was grown up and all i wanted to do was serve my country, you bet your ass thats what i would do no questions asked.

[Hate_Republicrats]

Is it something to be proud of to support a murderous takeover of a nation so that the rich can get richer. This woman is a sucker for the government lies just like any fool who would volunteer to fight in this crap war.

[PunkRockMaL7]

any fool who would volunteer to fight in this crap war.

Why is everyone in America so unamerican...if you dont like the country and the way things are done ... go see if you'll be happier somewhere else...

[DontBeAfraid]

Piss Poor response prm.... Just because you dont agree with the CURRENT political leaders does NOT mean you are unamerican.... The right to disagree is FULLY american... dissent is the highest form of patriotism. If you dont like the way things are done in america change them, dont leave. Thats what americas all about.

I think I would sucker punch everyone who makes that RETARDED remark about how you should leave if you dont like it.... Its you stupid fuckers that dont know what it means to be american!

[Emerald_Dragon]

i think its because we're expressing our right to free speech.

i may agree with the hater that we shouldn't be in this war. however, i disagree with him/her for implicitly slandering a 72 y/o volunteer and anyone like her. I may not believe its wise to send her to a PX in Iraq where she could be a liability, but the manner in which his message is/was delivered was not called for.

Its the leaders, not the pawns, that we should be worrying about. Everyone is doing their part to support what they believe. The only answer is information and how much is made available to the conscious masses. JMO.

[Skippy]

The 72 year old going Iraq is a marketing scam. I have lots of friends in their 70s and even the healthiest of them requires lots of medical treatment. This is a poster fro recruitment in the form of a news article. The woman will be a liability to the US forces.

[Hate_Republicrats]

I love my country punkrock but I despise my government. I was born here and my son was born here and I am not going to go away because my country is run by a bunch of murderous corporate whores. I have a cousin fighting in the Iraq war. I find it a shame that the governments propaganda and lies after the 9-11 tragedy compelled him to join the Marines. I believe in my heart that this addministration caused or at the best let happen 9-11 to get their bulls^&t wars and to destroy our civil liberties.

[VegasRonin]

The 72 year old going Iraq is a marketing scam. I have lots of friends in their 70s and even the healthiest of them requires lots of medical treatment. This is a poster fro recruitment in the form of a news article. The woman will be a liability to the US forces. Indeed, this is your opinion no? If it is fact, I'd like to view your source. I know an 80 yr old that jogs everyday and does 60 push-ups a day. Be carfeul about projecting one's own weaknesses on others!

[PunkRockMaL7]

Piss Poor response prm

Dont tell me my post is piss poor...its the god damn truth...a lot of the wars that this country have been in were ridiculous and still everyone in the country backed it (well there will always be war haters just not as many)...i just dont understand why this has to be any different....You people seem to me like the modern day black panthers...Its very sad how hateful everyone has gotten since the damn war....It is a shame that we had to be involved in it...but i see it this way...it would have happened no matter what...no matter who was in office...It may not of have been right now in time maybe a little later...but it would of happened...Just like any war...we have no reason to be over, but we are...and instead of bitching about everything lets pray for the brave men who have gone over there so me and you and everyone else not able to fight dont have to...if these people want to go over and get themselves killed so be it...its there decision...but i will back them in their decisions

[Hate_Republicrats]

Actually the Black Panthers did alot of good in inner-city communities. It was infiltrated by F.B.I. informants and bombarded by media lies and propaganda. When I know that women and children are being murdered I do not back it. Just because wars have been going on forever does not mean one should support it. That is almost like saying murder and rape have been going on forever I think I will support the efforts of our brave serial killers and rapists.

Punk Rock our forefathers set up our government to oppose and be free of Imperial Europe, that is what used to make America different than any other country. Democracy and freedom are something you have to fight for a dead fish can go with the flow. Obey-monkeys who go along with the government regardless of what they do should leave for totalitarian nations because they have no concept of what it is to be American. The Germans in Hitlers time called themselves patriots. The Germans in Hitlers time thought they were fighting "terrorists". History calls them and whoever follows tyranny what they are ignorant cowards.

[substand]

The 72 year old going Iraq is a marketing scam. I have lots of friends in their 70s and even the healthiest of them requires lots of medical treatment. This is a poster fro recruitment in the form of a news article. The woman will be a liability to the US forces.

It may be marketing, but I've also know people in their 70s who are active and healthy and require no more medical treatment than the occasional doctor visit that most of us go to. She may even be a liability in the sense that she would require extra help/protection (or something similar- i dont know much about her) ... but i would think that she brings an enormous morale boost to the soldiers around her and even beyond.


Dont tell me my post is piss poor...its the god damn truth...a lot of the wars that this country

The part that was piss poor was where you said (in effect) "if you don't like it, leave." Thats a horrible response. I might not like what mad libs have to say, but what they say at a minimum prevents conservatives from running amok with bad policies they have (because they do have them)... and in addition, they can further provide reason to go with other policies (by offering bad ones)... they add to the debate, in any case, because no side is right all the time. At best, they do SOMETIMES at least, offer good policies.

[PunkRockMaL7]

The part that was piss poor was where you said (in effect) "if you don't like it, leave."

Sorry...i just got a little upset for a min. Look i'm all about freedom of choice...if wanna do it ... shit man... who am i to stop ya...may not agree with everything but i atleast try to keep the bitching to a minimum...i just hate how it seems that all things these days seem to ultimately be blamed on the gov...they are a huge part of the problem yes...but if you think about it this way...9 inning pitch all you need is one more strike to win the game...the crowd is booing...with no support from the people around you, you are more likely to do bad and make a wrong decision as to watch pitch you will throw next...same with the gov. the whole freakin country hates them right now and they just want to do what they feel is right but its hard to make everyone happy... :band:

[DontBeAfraid]

Good thing for them that they are only trying to make a few mega company ceo's happy then, eh prm....

[Hate_Republicrats]

PRM What planet are you from?

[Death Rattle]

Consider this post to be your second serious warning.

You can insult me all you want, I don't care. But if your start insulting other members here, your ass will be toast faster than you can say " "... :ban:
Um Excuse me? This guy has been calling me a cock gobbler. He started it. Maybe you should read the posts before you pass judgment. :headbang:

[stringybeef]

I feel bad for death rattler hes only 15 hes still young and stupid lets stop ganging up on him and now back on topic. As much as a dislike the U.S. government I cant disagree on them on this one. If shes volunterring and in good health and somewhat in good shape then they cant really say anything to her unless they find something wrong with her.Im sure there not going to put her as one of those soldiers who go out and fight insurgents.There most likely going to make her a medic for one of the base

[DontBeAfraid]

I was calling you a gock cobbler..... its like a peach cobbler only made from gock.... You have a dirty little mind kid..... :lol

[Defiant Noquisi]

First of all i am not whining. I am sick and tired of you whining. I have read your previous posts. I think most americans know the score. Go get your handout and shut the f up. :gtfo:Racism and jealousy wont get you anywhere youngster. If you have read my posts you wouldnt be making the statement you did. POST YOUR PROOF!!

All you have proven is that you are an immature hit and run artist with nothing valid to post. You obviously are seething with anger and for what? Sorry kid but you cant victimize someone who refuses to be a victim.

Try posting something with some sense and without all the emotional bs. Not unless you want me to add tissue makers to my stock portfolio with all the crying you have going on. :Bott:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Must be a circus in town. Lets shut this shit down on these clowns. Hehehe, I was wondering when this might pop up.

[PunkRockMaL7]

Its sad how all you people who have been here for awhile gang up on the newbies. You dont seem to understand that people have different opinions...
Hate_Republicrats PRM What planet are you from?

lets see here...what fucking planet am i from...obviously not the one everyone on this damn web site is...everytime i have posted my thoughts the first thing everyone does is tell me howstoopid and ignorant i am...fuck yall...all i want to do is speak my mind the way you do i dont insult any of you...i dont know any of you and i sure as hell would never call someone i dont know stoopid based on opinions they have. If anyone is immature in here its the people who have been here the longest...not wanting anyone new in the circle obviously because all you do is put us down...

This woman is way braver than i could ever be. I give her support and all the men fighting for this bullshit war. I support our government because they are brave enough to put up with the shit you throw at them...i'd be crying myself to sleep every night if i was george w. not because he's an idiot (because i do think he is) but because of the fact that everytime he does something someone has to make a movie about it, or make a funny game, or point out everything negative that he has ever done. Give him a chance, let the war ride out, it will end soon. Stop hating everyone because they think and act differently than you. If you dont like something ... get up and fight for it...dont bitch about it in front of the computer because that does absolutely no good...if you dont like the war join the crowd at the white house and protest with the rest...show you really do care and do something about it. But if you not willing to fight for what you believe in then you have no right to complain. the end :band:

[Hate_Republicrats]

I will be in D.C. on January 20th, I was in NYC for the Republican National Convention, I have been to several protests before the Iraq war began. What planet are you from? was just a statement of dis belief at your naivety towards the government. I think you should read about US foreign policy for the past 50 years or more. A great book to start with is Killing Hope by William Blum. This government has been destroying our world, been responsible for millions of deaths to make the rich richer. It horrifies to think of the state of the nation and the world in the next 20-30 years. I will fight these cocksuckers who are screwing up the future of my son and future children any way I can. It is not about liberal vs. conservative that just a distraction it is about the wealthiest 10% against the rest of us.
I do not know what kind of punk rock you listen too but the stuff I listen too is preetty anti government, Dead Kennedys, TSOL, Black Flag, The Exploited etc. For a punk rocker you seem pretty tame and brainwashed.

[Hate_Republicrats]

Ever notice how the have-nots always hate the haves?



:bondage:
Ever notice how the haves have the system rigged so the have nots don't get squat and little opportunity to get any? or do you believe in the fairytales they teach in history class?

[substand]

wealthiest 10% against the rest of us.

And which side do you think you fall in, fool? You're in the welthiest 10%. Are you telling us you want to fight within your own group for a better future for yourself and your children, living in squalor like Rwandans?

Good choice jeenyus.

And there's plenty of punk rock that doesn't advocate some sort of anarchic communism/socialism that is a retarded oxymoron. in fact, dare I say that punks have brains too, and are capable of independent thought? Of course, that would be flying in the face of almost every cliche about the scene. Its one thing being "against the government" when the government is wrong... its just fucking retarded to be against the government just because. Like if we lived in absolute bliss in The United States of Utopia you'd be against it. But hey, its the punk rock thing to do.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Dayum! Did this get way off the mark! Just so you know PunkRock, my posts are not newbie specific. I will bite where ever and whenever I choose to do so, even among those who have been here much longer than I. If someone posts their opinion in an intelligent and thought provoking way, even though I may not agree, I respect the manner in which it is posted and the person posting.

On the other hand, if someone posts in an insolent manner and does so with ignorance, they are fair game.

Back to the topic at hand, I was watching a program, (I dont remember which one) and a gal that hadnt served in 30 years had been called up. She was 50 something and is now in Iraq. I dont agree so much with the marketing ploy angle. She said she could have opped out but felt it was her duty to her country. I hope its not wasted.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Back to the topic at hand, I was watching a program, (I dont remember which one) and a gal that hadnt served in 30 years had been called up. She was 50 something and is now in Iraq. I dont agree so much with the marketing ploy angle. She said she could have opped out but felt it was her duty to her country. I hope its not wasted. Oh yes, it was on 60 Minutes and she hadnt served since the 60's. Then I saw it on the best news show of all, The Daily Show with John Stewart.

[Hate_Republicrats]

And which side do you think you fall in, fool? You're in the welthiest 10%. Are you telling us you want to fight within your own group for a better future for yourself and your children, living in squalor like Rwandans?

Good choice jeenyus.


Most of the third world is living in squalor because of U.S. foreign policy. When I said wealthiest 10% I meant in the USA I should have been more specific. With the laws that keep getting passed by the Bush regime we are going to be living in squalor like the Rwandans. I assume you must be a Republican because your accusing me of being a communist. I am not, but I definatly do not support a government that sells out the public interest so the rich can get richer. All empires fall this one is no different.

[Hate_Republicrats]

Jesus fucking Christ. AMERICA is not responsible for the laziness of the foreign population. Nor is AMERICA responsible for the living conditions of the foreign population. Provide the evidence to back up your ridiculous claims and bleeding heart mentality. If you are so goddamned unhappy with the status quo of the foreign population, then start sending your paycheck to support (enable) the little foreigners.


Oh, we all know who you were referring to in your previous post, and my response remains as accurate and true now, as it was previously.

Sucks for you. :Llol:


....yes yes yes, I know, you were responding to another member, and you STILL made an ass out of yourself.[/SIZE]


:bondage:
Just because you are ignorant does not make me an ass. Have you ever heard of the IMF CIA WTO just a few of the tools of American Impeirlism. Sources Killing Hope by William Blum. Peoples History of America by Howard Zinn Crossing the Rubicon by Michael C Ruppert Body of Secrets by James Bamford Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky www.whatreallyhappened.com www.prisonplanet.com www.fromthewilderness.com www.centerforglobalresearch.ca www.informatonclearinghouse.com www.striketheroot.com www.indymedia.org and the National Security Archive at gwu.org to name a few. They probably won't mean much to you because they are not backed by major corporations. So keep on pulling your half baked opinions out of your ass. I am definatly not part of the wealthiest 10% in America(what the hell makes you think that I am?) :Bott:Keep on bleating sheep boy.

[PunkRockMaL7]

I do not know what kind of punk rock you listen too but the stuff I listen too is preetty anti government, Dead Kennedys, TSOL, Black Flag, The Exploited etc. For a punk rocker you seem pretty tame and brainwashed.

I think you are the one that is brainwashed. Someone brainwashed you into hating everything. Just because i like punk music and listen to punk and wear punk clothing or whatever else there is...doesn't mean i am brainwashed and tame...if anything the music is giving people the idea that government is bad...isnt that brainwashed. I'm no brainwashed to anything, i think how i want to think. No one gives me my ideas they just show up in my brain from the things i see. And to completely honest with you i hate the government i dont think we should need one, but without them there would be pure chaos. So i do give them respect. I'm about freedom of choice and doing what you want when you want. The government cant stop you from doing it but that can detain you when it messes with civil rights. And, thats the way it should be. If only everyone could get along. I think a big puff of marijuana smoke should take over America...then everyone would get along...haha...

You know what else, for those people who are in that 10% wealthiest group...good for them. Because they had it in them to make that money and if i had the power to, i would probably do the same thing. But for me money isnt important, i dont care who is getting rich or how they are doing it...it doesnt matter. :band:

[PunkRockMaL7]

Quote:
Just because you are ignorant does not make me an ass. Have you ever heard of the IMF CIA WTO just a few of the tools of American Impeirlism. Sources Killing Hope by William Blum. Peoples History of America by Howard Zinn Crossing the Rubicon by Michael C Ruppert Body of Secrets by James Bamford Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky www.whatreallyhappened.com www.prisonplanet.com www.fromthewilderness.com www.centerforglobalresearch.ca www.informatonclearinghouse.com www.striketheroot.com www.indymedia.org and the National Security Archive at gwu.org to name a few. They probably won't mean much to you because they are not backed by major corporations. So keep on pulling your half baked opinions out of your ass. I am definatly not part of the wealthiest 10% in America(what the hell makes you think that I am?) Keep on bleating sheep boy.

reading all that shit is what makes you brainwashed....DUH...think for yourself instead of listening to everyone else...

[Hate_Republicrats]

reading all that shit is what makes you brainwashed....DUH...think for yourself instead of listening to everyone else...
Brainwahed by whom. What the common ground between those sources besides wanting to get through the government propaganda? Whats the agenda? You are telling me to think for myselfwhen you can not discuss anything without throwing around insults. I hate the government if that is what everything is to you. I have nothing against smoking now and again but too often leads to brain damage. :drool:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Keep on bleating sheep boy.OMG!!! BAHAHAHAHA!!!! I feel a dark cloud looming over the horizon.... :bondage:

[substand]

Most of the third world is living in squalor because of U.S. foreign policy.

It was American foreign pilicy that started WW2 which caused us to get rich beyond our wildest dreams? Well, I guess in a sense it was our foreign policy... which was nonexistent which allowed the war to happen (because Europe was too scared to do anything about Hitler's breaking the rules of peace and we didn't want to get involved anyway). But aside from that, which is the nonexistence of foreign policy, what else was there that jump started us to the undisputed top? Oh yeah, the failure of communism. I guess that did have something to do with our foreign policy. We opposed evil dictators who kept their people living in squalor. Communism's failure did not make us richer though, it just made us the undisputed heavyweight champions of the world.

Did our foreign pilicy prevent Mexico from stopping its lecherous government push down the economy? Did our foreign pilicy prevent warring tribes (all around the world) from finding peace and establishing peace and progress 200 years ago? Or even today? Did our foreign policy prevent Saddam Hussein from putting Oil For Food money into the economy of Iraq instead of building himself lavish palaces and paying off France et al?

Of course, the answers to all of these questions and more, is "no." In fact, American foreign policy has been used as a tool to improve economies.


IMF

What are you talking about? Because the nations of the world come together and grant loans to countries to help improve their economies, asking only for freedom-oriented economic and domestic reforms, plus repayment of the loan in return... this somehow is American foreign policy screwing people? How? Because we didn't GIVE the money to murderous dictators who run these countries with no strings attached?


CIA
The CIA may be used at times to subvert enemies of the US... but as for its long term effect on economies around the world, I would think it isn't capable of doing much.


WTO
Again, a free trade organization that helps all member states. If anything, this organization (an international one, by the way) is voluntary and often hurts the US. How is the US going to sell oranges in world markets with our high wages versus any country without them? Not just oranges, but virtually any product. Any industry we trade in is going to be bought by other countries for one of 2 reasons: IT IS A SUPERIOR PRODUCT or it is CHEAPER. People are not going to buy American steel for 100000k if its crappy when they can get good japanese steel for less... or brazilian, or whatever.


Killing Hope by William Blum. Peoples History of America by Howard Zinn Crossing the Rubicon by Michael C Ruppert Body of Secrets by James Bamford Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky www.whatreallyhappened.com www.prisonplanet.com www.fromthewilderness.com www.centerforglobalresearch.ca www.informatonclearinghouse.com www.striketheroot.com www.indymedia.org and the National Security Archive at gwu.org to name a few.

Some of those won't mean anything to me because they publish outright fabrications. Others are just nutty. Not backed by major corporations? Howard Zinn's book was published by HarperCollins, which is owned by none other than News Corp (according to the Columbia Journalism Review @ http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/newscorp.asp)... Rupert Murdoch backed Zinn's book then! Aint that some shit?


am definatly not part of the wealthiest 10% in America(what the hell makes you think that I am?) Keep on bleating sheep boy.

Now you must be getting MD and me confused.


I assume you must be a Republican because your accusing me of being a communist.

Me? A Republican? MD was right, you ARE making an ass of yourself. Now I've been called a communist AND a republican on this board. I must be doing a good job.

And I never called you a communist. I said there's plenty of punk that is not anarchic communism/socialism... but since you brought up chomsky... jeez, you couldn't have done any worse to categorize yourself in the manner I was speaking about punk rock.

And I would be willing to make a substantial bet that each of the authors you named is a Marx sympathizer in one way or another.

Take care...

[edit: corrected "affect" to "effect" and some other spelling mistakes, but shirley not all]

[Hate_Republicrats]

Enjoy your ignorance and your rose colored view of the world. :drool: You would lose a substantial amount of money if we did make a bet. When a country signs a loan with the IMF, they have to follow the IDF criteria which is usually gutting the nation. A good site for info on this www.gregpalast.com

[Hate_Republicrats]

Mickey Doolittle and Substand you have both accused me of being an ass yet you have not factually shot down anything that I have said. It does not seem like you have any beliefs or ideas. You have both badmouthed Noam Chomsky without giving any factual reasons why. The comparasion with David Icke is pretty retarded.
Chomsky does not go around saying lizard men are running the earth. Doolittle you turd don't misquote me intentionally. Ruppert Murdoch for an anti-communist does alot of business with the Chinese. He will do anything that will make him a buck, that point about Zinn is irrelevant. A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with.

[Rynotek]

Globalization and its discontents by Joseph E. Stiglitz, served his time in the world bank, Maybe its not so much America as the root of the problem but the institutes it sets up. Its pretty candid account

[substand]

accused me of being an ass yet you have not factually shot down anything that I have said.

Accusations of being an ass were made because you assumed I was a republican. If there has not been any factual shooting down of anything you have said, it is only because you have not said anything factual. Your claim that none of your authors were backed by major corporations was "factually" shot down by highlighting the fact that News Corp. owns the publisher of one of your author's books.

that point about Zinn is irrelevant. A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with.

On the contrary, it could not have been more relevant. It was in response to your assertion that none of your sources were backed by major corporations. How much more "major" can you get than News Corp?

You claim that American foreign policy is the cause of all the worlds economic woes, but offer no proof... expecting perhaps that we go read all the books you mentioned as proof. Thats a pretty lame proof. Perhaps you could cite cases where American foreign policy has caused economic woes? But I suppose you'd at least have to admit that my examples showed otherwise, and in fact you'd then have to realize that sometimes the policies help and sometimes they hurt other economies.

But your examples of the IMF and CIA and WTO were plain retarded, and shot down factually. You can find good and bad in any policy or organization, but specifically you mentioned the WTO and IMF, whose policies at times may have hindered progress, but in the overwhelming number of cases have helped to promote it. Even if they sometimes (or often) fail, the countries are no worse off than they would have been otherwise (except possibly for the debt they incur). And besides that, participation in such programs is completely voluntary. No one forces a country to take a loan from the IMF. Finally, these are not distinctly American policies or organizations. They are international.

The only badmouthing I did about Chomsky was to say that he epitomizes the typical "punkrock" idea of a Anarchic communsism/socialism. If you say any differently, you are contradicting Chomsky himself:


RBR: A number of people have noted that you use the term 'libertarian socialist' in the same context as you use the word 'anarchism'. Do you see these terms as essentially similar? Is anarchism a type of socialism to you? The description has been used before that anarchism is equivalent to socialism with freedom. Would you agree with this basic equation?

CHOMSKY: The introduction to Guerin's book that you mentioned opens with a quote from an anarchist sympathiser a century ago, who says that anarchism has a broad back, and endures anything. One major element has been what has traditionally been called 'libertarian socialism'. I've tried to explain there and elsewhere what I mean by that, stressing that it's hardly original; I'm taking the ideas from leading figures in the anarchist movement whom I quote, and who rather consistently describe themselves as socialists, while harshly condemning the 'new class' of radical intellectuals who seek to attain state power in the course of popular struggle and to become the vicious Red bureaucracy of which Bakunin warned; what's often called 'socialism'. I rather agree with Rudolf Rocker's perception that these (quite central) tendencies in anarchism draw from the best of Enlightenment and classical liberal thought, well beyond what he described. In fact, as I've tried to show they contrast sharply with Marxist-Leninist doctrine and practice, the 'libertarian' doctrines that are fashionable in the US and UK particularly, and other contemporary ideologies, all of which seem to me to reduce to advocacy of one or another form of illegitimate authority, quite often real tyranny.(from http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/rbr/noamrbr2.html)

Googling for chomsky marx: 84600 documents returned, including the International Socialist Review magazine.
Zinn Marx: 23000 documents returned, including a play he wrote "Marx in Soho."
William Blum Marx: 22400 returned, including International Socialist Review magazine.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/11T3TKAISI8Z/002-5660248-3679245 lists 3 of your authors... Its the "Radical Historian's" guide to "Truth about History and Opression."

I wasn't saying they would agree with Marx 100%, only that they sympathize with his ideas to extents. Of course not every single one of those documents the search returned are going to be relevant to the count. But when Marxists like what your authors have to say, to me that means they are saying something Marxists like. And if they are saying things Marxists like then they have ideas that Marx had/would have liked. And if they are doing that, that amounts to sympathy.

[edit: added a couple of sentances explaining my reasoning]

[Zyztem]

Ill also throw in that the system has been abused by tribal leaders. They have also been caught, prosecuted and did time like anyone else would for skimming and such. The Nations dont take it lightly, even in their own courts. If my Kevin Smith avatar sporting buddy would like to throw something into this he is welcome to do so.

I most certainly would like to.

First off, -sorry I'm late, major computer problems. I see that the odious piece of trash spouting ignorance like a lawn sprinkler has been banished, but I still want to comment for anyone else who may have similar ideas.

Just so that everyone knows whereof I speak- my kids are native american, my ex-wife is native american, my fiance is native american. Many of my friends and family are native american. I work at a native american casino. Oh yes, by the way, I am native american.

There is not much more that I can say that DN hasn't already eloquently stated. However, I can say that before the tribe I work for was allowed to open a casino, that county lead the state for poverty levels AND unemployment on a per capita basis. Entire families lived in two room shacks that were lucky to have indoor plumbing. Pride as a people and as a nation were being slowly pushed into the ground, helped along by racism and intolerance. With the advent of gaming, it created jobs, health care, homes and a source of income not just for the tribal members but for local businesses as well.
The tribes don't make their money for free. Greedy state and local governments make tribes pay huge sums to be "allowed" to exercise their sovereign rights. In Wisconsin alone, $100 million in additional payments from tribes helped to shore up a crappy budget this year alone.
It is true that some tribes that do make enough to support themselves and have a surplus do distribute payments to their members, much like a corporation pays its shareholders.
Who the hell are you to begrudge them that? Those tribes took financial risks, most times at almost illegal interest rates, to try to make their lives better and it is their money to do with as they please.
If I need remind you, the US government took a hell of alot more from tribes than tribes give to their members.
Finally, if you have to resort to idiocy in an discussion, you've already lost.

[cwohardy]

Just a moment of sanity in an otherwise crazy thread. In reference to the original post.

The lady in question is a civilian who works in the post exchange. ie PX. We have several PX's in the war zone and she voluntered to go over and work her job there.

She will not cause any one any extra work. If she doesn't pass the basic physical she wont go.

As to the reference to the lady who hadn't served since the 60's later on in this thread. She must serve in an extremely low density MOS (military occupational speciality). Many prior service/retiree's have volunteered to go to Iraq, unfortunately the services suffer from a lack of people that work in highly specialized jobs such as linquists/public affairs/cryptography etc. 90% of all those who have offered to come back just to go to Iraq held a job that we are not short of. I guarantee she has a specialized skill, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. We are no where near being so short of people in the Regular Army that she would have been called up just for shi+@ and giggles.

[Kohler]

Unfortunately for the past 15 minutes i've been reading this thread. Well, it started off good. The title of the post, True Blue American, blindly led me into believing I'd be reading three pages of patriotic insight.

yeah i was wrong.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041124/D86I8Q7O0.html
Now this is a person we should all admire. These are the people that make this country the best in the world. :2thumbs:

And to think that the comment that made it all go downhill was 'these are the people that make this country the best in the world'. Is America the best country in the world? I can't say for sure- It's the only country that I know; I'd like to agree.

So in the past couple of minutes I've learned about a 72 year old lady who is so dedicated to serving her country she volunteered to go to Iraq. I've learned that anyone who listens to Punk Rock must be anti-republican. And if your a 'pimply faced 15 year old' your thoughts are as valuable as the toilet paper you wipe your ass with. Not to mention that a Gock Cobbler is, infact, food.

Defiant Noquisi saw this statement Death Rattle made as being arrogant. I personally interpreted it in a totally different light, with more of an enthusiastic tone. Does that mean I dislike DN? No! Does that mean that DN cares what I think? Probally not!
(By the way thank you for reading my essay :D )

I dont understand how/why this thread was blown so far off course.

---------
I went back and read the first page again-- soo thaaats how it got so far blown off course.

[Haliburton]

I just finished reading this thread. I cannot believe Death Rattle has been banned. Sounds like some people here can dish it out but can't take it. Right DN? :ban: :ban:

[Bigsky770]

. . .Anyone of us can take a heated exchange, whereas (undoubtedly) it will happen in the course of events that mild insults are bound to occur, and these (on most occasions) just roll off our backs, especially for those of us endowed with 'teflon' hides. . .:wink:
. . ."Death Rattle", (suffice to say) had posted a comment that went BEYOND that latitude in verbal engagement we normally overlook, and YES, I was a part of that decision. I am NEVER HAPPY when it must come to that, though we must draw the line somewhere. Hope that explains it well enough for you.

Joe (Bigsky770)

[Defiant Noquisi]

Defiant Noquisi saw this statement Death Rattle made as being arrogant. I personally interpreted it in a totally different light, with more of an enthusiastic tone. Does that mean I dislike DN? No! Does that mean that DN cares what I think? Probally not!
(By the way thank you for reading my essay :D ) Youre welcome, it was a wonderful read!

The arrogant statement is that this country is the best in the entire world. A complete falsehood. Every country has its "bests" and "worsts" about it. I'm generalizing but take the money away and we are all pretty much the same. We all have needs, wants and desires just as anyone within 1 mile or 100,000 miles.

There are things I like about Canada that if I only focused on those, would make it better than the US. Same for Mexico. Saying this country is the best in the whole world is an opinion, granted. However since this website is viewed by people of many countries and in respect to them, it comes off as arrogance. If DR had backed that statement by posting something as to why they thought this country is better I wouldnt have noted it as arrogance. Other countries have people of all ages that assist militarily. That doesnt make us better, it makes us the same as any other country.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I just finished reading this thread. I cannot believe Death Rattle has been banned. Sounds like some people here can dish it out but can't take it. Right DN? Thanks to Joe for answering this so diplomatically. In consideration of the nic, I am not surprised by the statement. :dummy:

[Haliburton]

Thanks to Joe for answering this so diplomatically. In consideration of the nic, I am not surprised by the statement. :dummy:
I rest my case Joe the supposed moderator.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I rest my case Joe the supposed moderator.Perhaps if you had read the other posts made by DR which did result in the banning, your judgement would not be as harsh. While this forum does advocate the spirit of free speech, it does not support racist and gender demeaning commentary as was posted by DR. You may have rested your case but you have done little to prove it right.

[Haliburton]

Perhaps if you had read the other posts made by DR which did result in the banning, your judgement would not be as harsh. While this forum does advocate the spirit of free speech, it does not support racist and gender demeaning commentary as was posted by DR. You may have rested your case but you have done little to prove it right.
All i have to do to prove it is read your last post in this thread to the supposed moderator. Perhaps if i contribute money to the website i can also say whatever i want. You don't practice what you preach.

[kathaksung]

smartest states are all BLUE Democratic states.
2004-2005 Smartest State Award

The top 7, smartest states in the nation are all BLUE Democratic states. The bottom 7, the dumbest states in the nation are all RED Republican states. .... and the trend continues.

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank04.htm

[DontBeAfraid]

Halibuton, DR's most offensive posts are gone. VERY few people get banned from AO and even then its usually not forever. The mods here are quite generous when it comes to letting things slide. DR was over the top.