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nephilim
Aug 22nd, 2012, 2:45 PM
PREFACE

We will understand more about what we have understood about heaven, this can also be viewed as related to this thread's conversation http://www.armageddononline.org/forums/threads/35639-Theosophy-based-Armageddon, although probably not as lengthy. We will understand the Jewish account of the Kabbalah, as a description of the relationship of "faith", the hyperdimension, that is involved in the formation of "Gaia", the hyperdimensional that mankind will inherit, and as a result, the experience of humanity in this earth and universe, unto the end of time, unto this day.

Relationship of Hyperdimension of Heaven (faith), to Hyperdimension of Gaia (the Inheritance)

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k492/psalmsamuel/Kabbalah1-1.jpg


The First Path is called the Admirable or the Concealed Intelligence (The Highest Crown) - for it is the Light giving the power of comprehension of that First Principle which has no beginning, and it is the Primal Glory, for no created being can attain to its essence.

The Second Path is that of the Illuminating Intelligence it is the Crown of Creation, the Splendor of the Unity, equaling it, and it is exalted above every bead, and named by the Kabbalists the Second Glory.

The Third Path is the Sanctifying Intelligence, and is the basis of foundation of Primordial Wisdom, which is called the Former of faith, and its roots, Amen; and it is the parent of Faith, from which virtues doth Faith emanate.

The Fourth Path is named Measuring, Cohesive, or Receptacular; and is so called because it contains all the holy powers, and from it emanate all the spiritual virtues with the most exalted essences: they emanate one from the other by the power of the primordial emanation (The Highest Crown), blessed be it.

The Fifth Path is called the Radical Intelligence, because it is itself the essence equal to the Unity, uniting itself to the BINAH or Intelligence which emanates from the primordial depths of Wisdom or CHOCHMAH.

The Sixth Path is called the Intelligence of the Mediating Influence, because in it are multiplied the influxes of the emanations; for it causes that affluence to flow into all the reservoirs of the Blessings, with which these themselves are united.

The Seventh Path is the Occult Intelligence, because it is the Refulgent Splendor of all the Intellectual virtues which are perceived by the eyes of intellect, and by the contemplation of faith.

(The Eighth Path is called Absolute or Perfect, because it is the means of the primordial, which has no root by which it can cleave, nor rest, except in the hidden places Of GEDULAH. Magnificence, which emanate from its own proper essence.)

Excerpt from SEPHER YETZIRAH OR THE BOOK OF CREATION
Excerpt from Paragraph Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/yetzirah.htm
..................................

These are also reflected in the seven spiritual building blocks (Sefirot) with which God created the world: Chesed (Kindness), Gevurah (Severity), Tiferet (Harmony), Netzach (Perseverance), Hod (Splendor), Yesod (Foundation) and Malchut (Royalty).
http://www.ajudaica.com/judaica101/jewish-symbols/star-of-david/


The Hyperdimension of Heaven (faith) is "Seven Fold", the Hyperdimension of Gaia (the inheritance). It is scaled and divided to performed the perfect judgment, that is one that results in the evolution of mankind, by the degree of the hyperdimension, as apart of the intended design of the relationship of "faith". The Eighth line in the Kabbalah's 32 Point description, gives us the conclusion of perfection, and this mirrors the "Seven Spiritual Blocks (Sefirot), in which God Created the World for.

The difference between the Hyperdimensions is "SEVEN FOLD", this denotes there is simply a design difference in magnitude. What we understand about heaven, was provided to us, in the order of the magnitude of this relationship, so we could understand how it has applied to us (cherbims, seraphims, angels, god, etc.), are the names of relationships of forces that have enveloped against us as elements of the process, that are the result of higher intelligences. Lets Continue.


Relationship of the Hyperdimension of Gaia (the inheritance), to this Universe and Mankind

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k492/psalmsamuel/Kabbalah2.jpg


SUPPLEMENT TO CHAPTER IV
(Found in some editions)

He caused and produced Beth, predominant in wisdom, crowned, combined, and formed the Moon in the Universe, the first day of the week, and the right eye, of man.
Gimel, predominant in health, crowned, . combined and formed Mars in the Universe, the second day of the week, and the right ear in man.
Daleth, predominant in fertility, crowned, combined, and formed the Sun in the Universe, the third day of the week, and the right nostril in man.
Kaph, predominant in life, crowned, combined, and formed Venus in the Universe, the fourth day of the week, and the left eye of man.
Pe, predominant in power, crowned, combined, and formed Mercury in the Universe, the fifth day of the week, and the left ear in man.
Resh, predominant in peace, crowned, combined, and formed Saturn in the Universe, the sixth day of the week, and the left nostril in man.
Tau, predominant in beauty, crowned, combined and formed Jupiter in the Universe, the seventh day in the week, and the mouth of man.
By these seven letters were also made seven worlds, seven heavens, seven lands, seven seas, seven rivers, seven deserts, seven days (as before), seven weeks from Passover to Pentecost, and every seventh year a jubilee.

(Same Reference As Previous)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/yetzirah.htm

There is a "SEVEN FOLD" difference between the hyperdimensions as we discussed previously, and there is a "SEVEN FOLD" difference between the Hyperdimension of Gaia, and this Universe mankind lives in. I have made the division described in the Kabbalah, between the Non-Asian World in red, the Kinked Cross above, and the Asian World in blue, the Splitting Arrow below. These are the two Basis of translation for mankind, and the two branches of sin resulting from man's expression, as a result of the turncoated hyperdimensional relationship that is designed into the operation of the hyperdimensional exchanges, that result in the creation of this universe and man. (the GREEN bar represents the divide). (There is no "Seven Fold" difference between the asian and non-asian world, the difference in the hyperdimension expression has made the non-asian world more dominant in this universe, there's no additional significance applied) Lets Continue.


Relationship of the Hyperdimensional Forces, to the Individual (our state of being, on the personal level)

(see the explanation below, I am demonstrating a methodology (way of interpretation)
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k492/psalmsamuel/Kabbalah3.jpg


1. In two and thirty most occult and wonderful paths of wisdom did JAH the Lord of Hosts engrave his name: God of the armies of Israel, ever-living God, merciful and gracious, sublime, dwelling on high, who inhabiteth eternity. He created this universe by the three Sepharim, Number, Writing, and Speech.
2. Ten are the numbers, as are the Sephiroth, and twenty-two the letters, these are the Foundation of all things. Of these letters, three are mothers, seven are double, and twelve are simple.
3. The ten numbers formed from nothing are the Decad: these are seen in the fingers of the hands, five on one, five on the other, and over them is the Covenant by voice spiritual, and the rite of Circumcision, corporeal (as of Abraham).
4. Ten are the numbers of the ineffable Sephiroth, ten and not nine, ten and not eleven. Learn this wisdom, and be wise in the understanding of it, investigate these numbers, and draw knowledge from them, fix the design in its purity, and pass from it to its Creator seated on his throne.
5. These Ten Numbers, beyond the Infinite one, have the boundless realms, boundless origin and end, an abyss of good and one of evil, boundless height and depth, East and West, North and South, and the one only God and king, faithful forever seated on his throne, shall rule over all, forever and ever.
6. These ten Sephiroth which are ineffable, whose appearance is like scintillating flames, have no end but are infinite. The word of God is in them as they burst forth, and as they return; they obey the divine command, rushing along as a whirlwind, returning to prostrate themselves at his throne.
7. These ten Sephiroth which are, moreover, ineffable, have their end even as their beginning, conjoined, even as is a flame to a burning coal: for our God is superlative in his unity, and does not permit any second one. And who canst thou place before the only one?

(Same Reference As Previous)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/yetzirah.htm

You are viewing a NON-ASIAN INDIVIDUAL. The Purple Highlights in the Kinked Cross Section, represent portions of the personality/hyperdimensional relationship, that is apart of what hyperdimension has in view. These are seen as weaker attributes in the corresponding asian expression for that individual, in this sense I have made GREEN BARS in the Splitting Arrow Section, to demonstrated this less dominant personality traits.

What the Universe does, is create the perfect judgment, in the sense that if you are NON-ASIAN like in our example, you will be the inferior in some respect to the asian counterpart, and vice versa. This kind of comparison extends through the hyperdimension of GAIA (the inheritance), and further through the hyperdimension of Heaven (FAITH).

The Angelic Beings, which is to say the Heavenly Host, are much more intelligent and have different ways of thinking, during a person's life time, and sometimes much for much shorter periods, they will have your full profile, and they will know enough to decide your destiny by the time of your life cycle (s). What is also true, is most of the human life that is a result of the hyperdimensional exchanges, passes away as apart of the process, and only a tiny bit of it is given any consideration by the higher intelligences.

This about concludes our discussion. This can parallel itself with personaility studies and cross connections between the two genetic lines and their variations, with the difference of Carbon excitation at the time of death. The complexity of these conversation, and the timeframe for the end of the human race, in 2012, makes this conversation just about as accurate as we can become on the subject of "Universality as apart of the State of Existence for Mankind, towards the Translation". (there is a "SEVEN FOLD" difference between HEAVEN and GAIA) There is a "SEVEN FOLD" difference between the Hyperdimension of Gaia, and the Universe, and then between the Universe and the Individual...................There is a "SEVEN FOLD" difference between the INDIVIDUAL AND HEAVEN, the Hyperdimensional of GAIA, is an exoform, that man as spiritual beings will be written into as apart of the evolution, and their inheritance.

Lillith
Aug 22nd, 2012, 7:21 PM
=nephilim;499732]PREFACE

We will understand more about what we have understood about heaven, this can also be viewed as related to this thread's conversation http://www.armageddononline.org/forums/threads/35639-Theosophy-based-Armageddon, although probably not as lengthy.


We will understand the Jewish account of the Kabbalah, as a description of the relationship of "faith", the hyperdimension, that is involved in the formation of "Gaia", the hyperdimensional that mankind will inherit, and as a result, the experience of humanity in this earth and universe, unto the end of time, unto this day.






Lets Continue.







Lets Continue.



(see the explanation below, I am demonstrating a methodology (way of interpretation)





This about concludes our discussion.

And this about summarizes your delusions which are at the very most, amusing.

Beatnik Bob
Aug 22nd, 2012, 11:42 PM
Gaia?
Is a correlation being drawn between Gaia and Shekina?

nephilim
Aug 23rd, 2012, 12:47 AM
Kabbalah - A Study of the Host of Heaven Part 2 Japanese Reflection

PREFACE


THE BURNING OF THE TORAH
Each day, the suffering and the horror among the Jews became greater. As the Torah was wrenched from their arms, they wept and beat themselves as mothers whose babes are torn from their breasts. And they said, "On the Day of Atonement we will go into the flames with our Torah!"
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/gm/gm21.htm

We will be comparing the Japanese reflection of this discussion for clarity. It has been said that a certain amount of the jewish population, if they do not say their prayers, they will cut their lives short. To some degree this must be true for the Japanese people as well, and we can see some of this "prayer book" ethic, designed into their culture. The case in point I am making, history and religious texts, can sometimes be changed over the course of time or degraded by opposing forces. Until, certain conclusions are less convenient to come by, this does not mean they are not there.

http://photos.igougo.com/images/p546064-Wuhan-Ancient_Rice_Cooking_Pot.jpg

LORD BAG OF RICE


A SOLDIER in Japan was once about to cross a bridge near a lake when he saw a huge snake coiled on the bridge so that no one could pass. Now, do you think that this soldier turned and ran away, as many others had that day? No, indeed! He knew that a bridge was not the place for a snake, so he walked up and stamped on its head.

As he stepped on him, the snake was gone. Only a dwarf stood before him, who at once began bowing his head to the ground with respect.

"There is a terrible centipede," said the dwarf, "and he lives in the woods on the mountain. Every day he comes down to the shore to drink. He dips his thousand poisonous feet into the beautiful water, turning it all foul and dirty. It kills all the fishes in the lake, too. I am the king of the lake, and I am trying to find some way to save my fishes."

They hurried to the edge of the lake and saw the centipede already very near. He looked. like an army marching with colored lanterns, for each one of his thousand legs glowed with many beautiful shades of crimson and green and gold. The soldier drew his great bow and let an arrow fly at the monster's head. He never missed his aim, and the arrow struck the ugly head of the centipede, but bounced away. A second arrow flew, but that, too, bounced away. It took just a second to wet the head of his last precious arrow and send it whizzing at the centipede. It struck him on the forehead and he fell over dead.

Suddenly the soldier found himself back in his own house, which was now changed into a castle. Before him were five gifts, on each of which he read, ''With the loving thanks of the Dwarf." The first of these gifts was a huge bronze bell, on the outside of which was told in pictures the story of the centipede. The second was a sword which would always give its owner the victory. The third was a suit of armor so strong that no swords or arrows could go through it. The last two were the most wonderful of all. One was a roll of silk of any color he wished, and the more he used of the silk the more the roll grew. The other was a bag of rice which never grew less, although he used all he wished for his friends and himself. This last gift seemed so wonderful to the people that they called him Lord Bag of Rice from that day.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/shi/jft2/jft204.htm

We are given a description of the Translation/Evolution of Man, by the relationship of "faith" (our state of being in this universe).

The Dwarf is inside a Coiled Dragon, a picture of our hyperdimensional state. As apart of removing this SEAL/Coiled Dragon/Gaia from the Dwarf, the Soldier must also kill a relationship that is a threat to the Dwarf. This is pictured as the Centipede-the relationship that is sterilized from mankind-the Dwarf, as apart of the removal of the SEAL/Coiled Dragon.

The Soldier uses a few arrows before one finally hits, in the process the definition of the threat to mankind becomes clearer, as the Soldier removes the blurr from the target by moistening his Arrow, eventually the Centipede is killed.

The Soldier recieves FIVE REWARDS, or the mitigation of FIVE CONFLICTS are resolved as a result of removing the SEAL. I will list them:

1. Hyperdimensional Conflict between Heaven and Gaia
2. Hyperdimensional Conflict between Gaia and Mankind
3. Hyperdimensional Conflict between Mankind
4. Hyperdimensional Conflict between Gaia and the Universe
5. Hyperdimensional Conflict between Heaven and Mankind

The birth of the Star of Bethlehem/Nibiru, resolves conflicts 1 and 2, and 3 with the sterilization, when the earth is fully illuminated around 12/21/2012 conflict 4 is resolved, and conflict 5 will be resolved when the rapture is complete and mankind is translated into the new universe. Mankind is designed to ultimately be an "equal" with god, this is what the design of the hyperdimensional is about, it only exists as an outside force primarily because the judgment is incomplete.

The Jewish people have fashioned a more elaborate interpretation but it is much the same in retrospect..........


And this about summarizes your delusions which are at the very most, amusing.


“There was a man from Sung who pulled at his rice plants because he was worried about their failure to grow” Confucius Quote

This is the end of time, the "opportunity" can become a commodity through willful intervention, this is the end and they will not be spared. (Confucius is likely speaking of a "weed" that grows only when the fruit is uprooted)


Thanks for the Responses

Beatnik Bob
Aug 24th, 2012, 10:24 PM
Very little of what you have posted has anything to do with actual Kabbalah.

Lillith
Aug 25th, 2012, 9:48 AM
Very little of what you have posted has anything to do with actual Kabbalah.

Very little of what he posts on any thread has anything to do with anything its so discombobulated and nonsensical. He posts what the voice du jours of the day instructs him to post.

His head must be one hell of a menagerie.

Latuwr
Aug 26th, 2012, 5:06 PM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Whenever I think about the Host of Heaven, immediately I am drawn to these statements by the Apostle Paul:

Ephesians 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Messiah, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

And also this statement:

Philippians 2:10
10 That at the name of Yahushua every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Tell me Kabbalahlists and AntiKabbalahlists, and especially you Lillith, when will you bow the knee to Yahushua?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Beatnik Bob
Aug 26th, 2012, 7:13 PM
Tell me Kabbalahlists and AntiKabbalahlists ... when will you bow the knee to Yahushua?

Likely never.


Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other Elohim before me (YHVH).

Latuwr
Aug 28th, 2012, 8:56 AM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

In every post, I affirm through a blessing that Yahushua is My ELOHIM, the supreme BEING of the Universe. I no longer have any working knowledge of the Hebrew language so I realize that my confession that Yahushua is My YAHWEH can be challenged by those who know and work with the Hebrew language. Because of this weakness, I often refer to the Greek language of the LXX where the Rabbis translated the Hebrew Sacred Name into the Greek language. When we look there, we find that the Rabbis translated your YHVH into KURIOS. Accordingly, I freely admit that Yahushua is also My KURIOS.

What are the chances, Beatnik Bob, that Orthodox Jewish Mystics will once again believe that Yahushua is their KURIOS (see Acts 21:20, 1 Corinthians 12:3)?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Beatnik Bob
Aug 28th, 2012, 3:44 PM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

In every post, I affirm through a blessing that Yahushua is My ELOHIM, the supreme BEING of the Universe. I no longer have any working knowledge of the Hebrew language so I realize that my confession that Yahushua is My YAHWEH can be challenged by those who know and work with the Hebrew language. Because of this weakness, I often refer to the Greek language of the LXX where the Rabbis translated the Hebrew Sacred Name into the Greek language. When we look there, we find that the Rabbis translated your YHVH into KURIOS. Accordingly, I freely admit that Yahushua is also My KURIOS.
In the Septuagint?

That's a fuckin lie.

It's rendered "Jehovah."
Kurios is Lord, not YHVH.


What are the chances, Beatnik Bob, that Orthodox Jewish Mystics will once again believe that Yahushua is their KURIOS
Oh, I'd say decent chances. Especially if he reveals himself to them. But otherwise, pretending in Jesus is about as useful as bowing to stacks of hay.

But if it does happen, it is not a big deal...
Because you can believe anyone is Kurios. Being Kurios won't make you God.


Guess you don't know any Greek either, do you?

Latuwr
Aug 28th, 2012, 6:15 PM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you though Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

I have already admited to you that I have no working knowledge of the Hebrew language, and, indeed, I have no desire to lie to anyone let alone as you say of me that I have engaged in a: Fuckin lie. To do so is very far from my desire. Indeed, it is my view that it is HaSatan who engaged in the first fuckin lie when HaSatan informed the innocent, spiritually virginal, Eve that one can disobey YAHWEH and live. This statement of HaSatan to Eve was a rape and a molestation, and his statement was the first fuckin lie. So, I have no desire to follow in his footsteps and engage in fuckin lies.

Accordingly, since you are knowledgeable in both the Hebrew and Greek languages, could you please show me the Greek name that the Rabbis assigned to your YHVH when they translated that NAME into the Greek language in the Septuagint.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Beatnik Bob
Aug 28th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you though Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

I have already admited to you that I have no working knowledge of the Hebrew language, and, indeed, I have no desire to lie to anyone let alone as you say of me that I have engaged in a: Fuckin lie. To do so is very far from my desire. Indeed, it is my view that it is HaSatan who engaged in the first fuckin lie when HaSatan informed the innocent, spiritually virginal, Eve that one can disobey YAHWEH and live. This statement of HaSatan to Eve was a rape and a molestation, and his statement was the first fuckin lie. So, I have no desire to follow in his footsteps and engage in fuckin lies.

Accordingly, since you are knowledgeable in both the Hebrew and Greek languages, could you please show me the Greek name that the Rabbis assigned to your YHVH when they translated that NAME into the Greek language in the Septuagint.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

I'm not fluent in Greek, but I know enough and I know what kurios means.

YHVH was translated as YHVH in the Septuagint.
Hebrew characters were replaced with Greek letters.

I believe in later versions, they did indeed write "Jehovah" instead.

Latuwr
Aug 30th, 2012, 12:03 PM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"YHVH was translated as YHVH in the Septuagint.
Hebrew characters were replaced with Greek letters.
I believe in later versions, they did indeed write "Jehovah" instead."

Do you have any documentation to show that YHVH (YHWH?) was replaced with the equivalent Greek letters in the LXX. Are there any existent fragments of the LXX which prove your statement. What is the difference between YHVH and YHWH?

The reason I am asking you these questions is this: In Acts 15, James the Just quotes Amos 9:12:

Acts 15:17
17 That the residue of men might seek after the LORD, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the LORD, who doeth all these things.

The author of Acts, Luke, has James the Just quoting from the Septuagint rather than from the Hebrew Scriptures. I am not saying that James in reality did not actually speak Amos 12:9 to the gathered Elders in their Hebrew tongue. He could very well have done so. However, if that should be the case, it does appear to me that the exact Hebrew of Amos 9:12 must differ from its Greek translation? Why do I question here?

Here is how Amos 9:12 is translated into English in the KJV:

Amos 9:12
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Is there not a difference between seeking and possessing in the Hebrew language? The Elders who were gathered at Jerusalem were kosher-smosher Jewish Believers. I personally do not believe that they would have allowed a faulty translation of Amos 12:9 to be sent out to their fellow Jews in the Diaspora. If the Septuagint is a correct translation of the Hebrew in this case, why does the English translation of the Hebrew not agree with the English translation of the Greek Septuagint?

Would you be so kind to translate into English for me the Hebrew of Amos 12:9? Feel free to substitute the four letters of the unique sacred NAME for the English LORD.

I ask for this kindness because of my next question to you.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Sep 1st, 2012, 8:33 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

A number of years ago, I and several of my Brethren and our Wives had the privilege and honor to sit at the feet of a young Hasidic Rabbi in training and study and debate the Tenach with him once a week for a number of years. We took notice right away that he would never allow himself to be touched by a woman. If a woman desired to shake his hand, he would refuse and then graciously grant that woman the alternative of shaking his beard.

This young Rabbi in training had himself sat at the feet of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, and he did also study at Yeshiva in Israel. This man introduced us to the Bible Unauthorized from which we had numerous interesting discussions. I remember rather humbly that we all felt rather ignorant in his presence and out of respect for him we learned to use HaShem in our discussions instead of the name, God. We also limited our discussions to the Old Testament Scriptures. We were not there to openly teach him anything from the New Testament, and we rarely brought up with him anything about Jesus. We were there to learn about Judaism from a Hasidic perspective, and he was a good and patient teacher.

I think that I should give you all an example of the type of questions we would entertain with him. I remember asking him if the words of 2 Samuel 7:13-16 were Messianic? He replied that they indeed were. I then asked him if the words of Malachi 3:1 were also Messianic. He replied in the affirmative. So, I then asked him how it is that a Jewish Messiah could suddenly come to a Temple which must exist before Messiah suddenly appears? In other words, how could the Jewish Messiah build a Temple before He comes? He replied that this Temple is being built right now by Messiah in Heaven, and when Messiah appears, the Temple will appear with Him! We internally marveled at his answer, and his answer told us that Hasidic Jews do not believe that a third Temple will be built on this earth before the Jewish Messiah appears. We also understood that there is very little in the Tenach that has not been discussed and debated by the Rabbis.

I am a Gentile mystic; therefore, I am interested in Jewish mysticism. I am here to learn, but I am also here to teach according to the blessing with which My YAHWEH Yahushua Messiah has blessed me (see Colossians 2:2-3).

Have a happy Sabbath Day, Everyone!

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Beatnik Bob
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:42 PM
Do you have any documentation to show that YHVH (YHWH?) was replaced with the equivalent Greek letters in the LXX.
You mean like Jehovah being the Greek derived word for the God of the Torah?


Are there any existent fragments of the LXX which prove your statement.
There are Greek Dead Sea Scrolls which use "YHVH" within the Greek.


What is the difference between YHVH and YHWH?
YHVH is English spelling. YHWH is German spelling.

In German, the "W" is pronounced as an English "V." Unless you speak German, you have no business saying/typing "Yaweh."

There is no Hebrew letter for the English "W," only the German "W" (which sounds like the English v or Hebrew vav)

The reason I am asking you these questions is this: In Acts 15, James the Just quotes Amos 9:12:

Acts 15:17
17 That the residue of men might seek after the LORD, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the LORD, who doeth all these things.

The author of Acts, Luke, has James the Just quoting from the Septuagint rather than from the Hebrew Scriptures. I am not saying that James in reality did not actually speak Amos 12:9 to the gathered Elders in their Hebrew tongue. He could very well have done so. However, if that should be the case, it does appear to me that the exact Hebrew of Amos 9:12 must differ from its Greek translation? Why do I question here?

Here is how Amos 9:12 is translated into English in the KJV:

Amos 9:12
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Is there not a difference between seeking and possessing in the Hebrew language? The Elders who were gathered at Jerusalem were kosher-smosher Jewish Believers. I personally do not believe that they would have allowed a faulty translation of Amos 12:9 to be sent out to their fellow Jews in the Diaspora. If the Septuagint is a correct translation of the Hebrew in this case, why does the English translation of the Hebrew not agree with the English translation of the Greek Septuagint?
I'm not sure what you're saying, but that would probably be because English often fails.

Just because English is different, doesn't mean the Greek was inaccurate. English did not even exist in the time period you are talking about.


Would you be so kind to translate into English for me the Hebrew of Amos 12:9? Feel free to substitute the four letters of the unique sacred NAME for the English LORD.
What would that prove?


I ask for this kindness because of my next question to you.
What question.

Latuwr
Sep 4th, 2012, 7:35 AM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

In high school and college, I was blessed to take numerous German language courses. Unfortunately my German is now like my Hebrew. I remember very little of it. If you don't use it, you lose it. Even so, I do remember the phrase "wie heissen sie", and you are correct the German "w" is pronounced as the English "v". Wasser is another example. It is pronounced "Vasser"

My paternal Grandmother's maiden name was Gott so I suppose I can lay claim to being a little German; perhaps, not enough in your mind to allow me to type YAHWEH. Let's make a deal. Please allow me to type "YAHWEH", and should I ever personally speak with you, I will pronounce this Name as "YAHVEH". Of course, if you should object to me typing "YAHWEH", then I am more than willing to change to "YAHVEH" in my typing to you.

You wrote:

"There are Greek Dead Sea Scrolls which use "YHVH" within the Greek."

Unless those Scrolls are copies or fragments of the Septuagint, that fact proves nothing. I have a copy of the English translation of the Bible published by the Assembly of YAHWEH in which the English "Lord" and "God" have been removed, and "YAHWEH" and "ELOHIM" have been substituted in their place. Having this information, would it be correct of me to argue that the original KJV was similar to the Assembly of YAHWEH version?

I am aware that the Greek of Acts 15:17 is not an exact copy of the Greek of Amos 9:12 in the LXX, but in both a plural form of the verb ekzeteo (seek after) is used. What I was asking you is whether or not the Rabbis who translated the Hebrew Scriptures into the Greek language, did they translate the Hebrew word for "possess" into the Greek word ekzeteo? If so, why? If not, is the Hebrew word for "seek after" actually found in the Hebrew Scriptures? I suspect that everything is not kosher here.

My next question is this: What is the NAME that Gentiles like myself will seek after and be called or named by? Do you have any idea? May I offer this possibility (see Acts 11:26)?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Sep 5th, 2012, 8:05 PM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

My YAHWEH Messiah Yahushua is the greatest of mystics. My Messiah recognized that the physical universe shadowed or mirrored the spiritual universe, and My Messiah desired that all HIS people show come to an awareness of exactly how this fact is to be understood. This is why My Messiah taught in parables!

It is not by accident that there are seven days in the physical week, and it is not by accident that YAHWEH ELOHIM rested on the 7th Day from HIS recreative work, nor is it by accident that YAHWEH ELOHIM made this 7th Day holy or distinct from the other days. Yahushua said that the Sabbath Day was made, did HE not? YAHWEH made the Sabbath Day by resting on that day, and not only was the Sabbath Day made by rest, but the Sabbath Day was set apart or made holy by that rest. That is why the Sabbath Day is holy. It is set apart by YAHWEH. Why? Yahushua says that the Sabbath Day was made for the man (Mark 2:27)! Who is the Man?

I consider myself to be a part of the MAN! This man is spoken about in this scripture:

Deuteronomy 8:3
3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that the man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of YAHWEH doth the man live. (I learned through my Hasidic teacher that the definite article with respect to the MAN exists in the Hebrew!)

If this Man lives by every word, and if this man indeed is the Father of My Messiah Yahushua as Yahushua HIMSELF proclaimed every time that he referred to HIMSELF as the Son of the Man, how is it that some do say that they can live or have life in themselves by not remembering the physical Sabbath Day to keep it holy?

It is HaSatan who taught that Eve could live through disobedience. This teaching was THE LIE (John 8:44). Why is it that anyone would teach this same Lie today? If the Man lives by every word, how can they expect to live by forgetting the physical Sabbath Day? How can they live by having their places of business open on the Sabbath Day? How can they expect to live by paying others to work for them on the Sabbath Day?

I will tell you the truth! They have no understanding because they have not learned that the physical is a shadow of the spiritual. They have not learned by looking at the mechanics and lessons of the parables which are designed to teach us that truth exists behind the obvious. There is a physical, and there is a spiritual. The physical comes first, and then comes the spiritual. If you transgress the physical, how can you claim to be spiritual? It is a mystery, is it not?

Thanking all in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Sep 6th, 2012, 3:16 AM
no not really Latuwr,
[remember we are all warned that those Judaizers creep in to deceive.]

ummmm
And not when you publically confessed you actually learnt all about the sabbath observance from the publically confessed rapist and incestor herbert armstrong - who in turn copied this false gospel of mixing the law of the jew with the NT new convenant of faith and grace, from the proven liar ellen white, the brain damaged religious guru of yesteryear who rolled on the ground in fits, telling of her ''revelations'' that now have become your truth and the truth of the church adventist millions.

notice this 'holy sabbath day' of OT works keeping does not stop the pews from dying ....very odd.
Especially when Jesus came to set the captives free from their death/sin realm.

Now on your 'watch' of holy sabbath saturdaykeeping, all manner of unholiness errupted that ruined lives of children in your assembly.
imagine that!!!

why do you preach a Judaizer's gospel to harm and destroy others as happened to you and yours.
why spread corruption?

surely this great sin, really doesn't give a great witness to ''your gospel'' and any values to the views of the religious pervert H.A.[ as publically recorded] and his dis-banned church.

If you were true to yourself, you will notice it is recorded Jesus Himself did not keep the sabbath and it was 1 act of many that lead to his death on the cross.
why?

Jesus did not keep the Saturday sabbath because IT IS OF WORKS TO THE JEWS ONLY.... HE IS A BELIEVER'S sabbath as they learn HOW TO REST IN HIS SAYINGS and not see death.



BTW why would you seek '' Godly counsel'' of a Hasidic jew - how strange to go to an anti-christ jew - is this the same man who would not shake your ex wife's hand- just in case she was so lovely he might have an errection - is this to be admired?

[this is why he refused her hand according to their teaching]
wow.
unbelieveable.
How you could get so bogged down by a WICKED ministry Paul warned us all over.
DONT MIX LAW TO THE JEW WITH FAITH AND GRACE.

NOW i do believe you are bewtiched not to recognise the harm this has done to many in your former assembly and you are indifferent to Godly responsibility and contiue to peddle doom.

johnBeeone
Sep 6th, 2012, 4:53 PM
Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?
Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and the name of his son?
Tell me if you know!

<< James 3 >>
17But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.



Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tonguesd? Do all interpret? But eagerly desiree the greater gifts.

Love

And now I will show you the most excellent way.

Latuwr
Sep 7th, 2012, 8:41 AM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You should know me well enough by now to be aware that I do not creep in anywhere. Wherever I go, I proclaim the blessing which I have just pronounced over you with the hope that all will eventually learn how to live through the application of the Gospel which I preach concerning my YAHWEH Messiah Yahushua. Without that application, you will die in your sins.

The Grace of ELOHIM through my Messiah Yahushua came to deliver HIS Chosen Ones from the power of darkness and translate all of us into HIS righteous and holy Kingdom. Paul wrote of the purpose of this grace in this manner:

Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of ELOHIM that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying unelohimliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and ELOHIMLY, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great ELOHIM and our Saviour Yahushua Messiah;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Remembering the physical Sabbath Day to keep it holy is a good work, and I am zealous of that good work. Not remembering the physical Sabbath Day to keep it holy is sin. My Messiah came to redeem HIS relatives from all their iniquity. Accordingly, why is it that this sin of Sabbath Breaking is still found in your life since you claim to be one with Messiah?

The Word of ELOHIM, which teaches us concerning righteousness (2 Timothy 3:15-17), absolutely states the Sabbath Day is a special covenant amongst HIS People of Israel (Exodus 31:16). Paul without reservation taught that Gentiles like myself have been brought near to the citizenship of Israel (Ephesians 2), and, therefore, I have every right to claim the covenant of Sabbath Keeping as my own ring to be worn before all the world. I have openly and proudly worn this ring since 1977. By wearing this ring, it is my sign that I believe that My Messiah Yahushua is the creator who recreated the Earth in six days (Exodus 20:11, Exodus 31:17, Leviticus 23:3, Deuteronomy 5:14), and that I believe that My Messiah has recreated (Ephesians 2:10) the very earth which I inhabit, my physical body, to ultimately be fashioned after HIS glorious body (Philippians 3:21) in this my present life.

In touching me, Lucy, it appears that you have been aroused against Sabbath keeping. Why do you continue in your iniquity, and why do you follow me around teaching against good works?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Sep 7th, 2012, 3:51 PM
No Laturw - i am not controlled by the Judaizer Ellen white, nor her misrepresentantion of the NT advice on faith with Grace abounding.
I am not controlled either by herbert arnstrong who influenced your choice of beliefs. He sowed the seed of corruption and you swallowed it.
http://www.truthorfables.com/LYING%20FOR%20GOD.pdf


2 unanointed religious misfits, of dubious backgrounds and habits, are believed by you - Yet Apostle Paul's NT warning about Judaizer's who creep in - saying ''everyone MUST have the OT laws + grace'' is ignored.
Herbert Armstrong is dead, but his nonsense lives on in you, as your spread apostacy all around you.
Many people have researched these 2 modern judaizers ideas and found them biblically wanting - over and over they have studied this apostacy and written of it and warned over it.
I dont ''touch you''' Latuwr - I warn you to come away from what men have taught you by twisting the scriptures to their own advantage and walk away from this accursed belief that brings with it the accursed life.
This belief has ruined your life and those around you - and there are NO good works, when seeds of corruption are a testimony to our lives.

If you were honest and gave forth your testimony [ that is supposed to overcome satan] not 1 person would ever desire to live their live in your personal religious belief as you have done.

while our lips may seem pious and very saintly - the lives we live is fruit for all to see is the testimony that brings us glory in Christ or condemns us, as a slave to the devil

you can write all the bible verses you wish Latuwr,
preach Judaizer theories all you want,
appear holy and covered with religion

- but nothing shall ever take away THE LIFE YOU LIVED infront of God and man as your testimony of fruit bearing.

- I wondered why anyone would get so involved to believe such twisted rendering of the NT about Law to the jews only and Grace and faith of the new covenant - how evil could gather so many disciples.
Jesus called the religious rulers of His day ''a nest of vipers''.
therefore satan will form nests of vipers - nest of snakes - nests of poison.
a tare ministry, a poisoned minstry that some will believe.
so why would men be drawn to such evil nests, when the warning of Pauls is so intense and vivid on this very subject of mixing the OT laws of the Jews with Grace?

the adventist founder was a brain damaged woman who had fits, and lied and was a false prophet.
she was later copied by a man who raped his daughter for years and had a dubious history of crimes against humanity as all publically reported - his life fruit was rotten, her life's fruit was rotten - 2 rotten apples spoilt millions of lives and this nest of vipers now is decreasing apparently as some discover how they have been duped.
so the question remains, why would people be drawn to a nest of poison - a nest of snakes - the only reason i can think of - kind goes with kind, birds of a feather flock together and those who walk away, have stopped being the ''same kind''.

lying, perversion, crimes of unfitness to lead anyone - would be considered ''a nest of vipers'' and fruit of the inner man.
The ''son of perdition'' is a disciple - but a false one who thrives on deception and bears rotten fruits - despite their pious lips.
A man/woman who sets out to preach as a judaizer as a false bewtiched person.
You need to swallow your pride in your religion and be converted to the truth.

LucySmith
Sep 7th, 2012, 5:42 PM
No Laturw - i am not controlled by the Judaizer Ellen white, nor her misrepresentantion of the NT advice on faith with Grace abounding.
I am not controlled either by herbert arnstrong who influenced your choice of beliefs. He sowed the seed of corruption and you swallowed it.
http://www.truthorfables.com/LYING%20FOR%20GOD.pdf


2 unanointed religious misfits, of dubious backgrounds and habits, are believed by you - Yet Apostle Paul's NT warning about Judaizer's who creep in - saying ''everyone MUST have the OT laws + grace'' is ignored.
Herbert Armstrong is dead, but his nonsense lives on in you, as your spread apostacy all around you.
Many people have researched these 2 modern judaizers ideas and found them biblically wanting - over and over they have studied this apostacy and written of it and warned over it.
I dont ''touch you''' Latuwr - I warn you to come away from what men have taught you by twisting the scriptures to their own advantage and walk away from this accursed belief that brings with it the accursed life.
This belief has ruined your life and those around you - and there are NO good works, when seeds of corruption are a testimony to our lives.

If you were honest and gave forth your testimony [ that is supposed to overcome satan] not 1 person would ever desire to live their live in your personal religious belief as you have done.

while our lips may seem pious and very saintly - the lives we live is fruit for all to see is the testimony that brings us glory in Christ or condemns us, as a slave to the devil

you can write all the bible verses you wish Latuwr,
preach Judaizer theories all you want,
appear holy and covered with religion

- but nothing shall ever take away THE LIFE YOU LIVED infront of God and man as your testimony of fruit bearing.

- I wondered why anyone would get so involved to believe such twisted rendering of the NT about Law to the jews only and Grace and faith of the new covenant - how evil could gather so many disciples.
Jesus called the religious rulers of His day ''a nest of vipers''.
therefore satan will form nests of vipers - nest of snakes - nests of poison.
a tare ministry, a poisoned minstry that some will believe.
so why would men be drawn to such evil nests, when the warning of Pauls is so intense and vivid on this very subject of mixing the OT laws of the Jews with Grace?

the adventist founder was a brain damaged woman who had fits, and lied and was a false prophet.
she was later copied by a man who raped his daughter for years and had a dubious history of crimes against humanity as all publically reported - his life fruit was rotten, her life's fruit was rotten - 2 rotten apples spoilt millions of lives and this nest of vipers now is decreasing apparently as some discover how they have been duped.
so the question remains, why would people be drawn to a nest of poison - a nest of snakes - the only reason i can think of - kind goes with kind, birds of a feather flock together and those who walk away, have stopped being the ''same kind''.

lying, perversion, crimes of unfitness to lead anyone - would be considered ''a nest of vipers'' and fruit of the inner man.
The ''son of perdition'' is a disciple - but a false one who thrives on deception and bears rotten fruits - despite their pious lips.
A man/woman who sets out to preach as a judaizer as a false bewtiched person.
You need to swallow your pride in your religion and be converted to the truth.


betwiched - lying for God -

http://www.truthorfables.com/LYING%20FOR%20GOD.pdf

if you are a seeker of the Truth Latuwr - you will see that sincere men, have exposed this blight of Judaizers.

If you remain bewitched by lies - it is because God has given you a strong delusion to believe a lie.
now to your lie add a false witness to me about my iniquity as u false witnessed of me in your previous post you are a false witness - as i ask this - Latuwr DO YOU CONSIDER THE APOSTLES BREAKING BREAD ON THE 1ST DAY OF THE WEEK - WICKED AND FULL OF INIQUITY , too.

the NT gives ample proof that this new method of fellowship is biblical and correct.


acts 20 v 7
On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight.


Acts 2:46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
every day - they met with sincere hearts.
That is HOLY SPIRIT led Latuwr - not man led, not led by a liar nor a pervert but GOD LED - and all His ekkelsia is the same kind, LED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT why?
to discern liars and the perverted who vandalise His Word and make it void i.e.- 1st for themselves and to all others who listen to their evil blather.

the main reason for the '''1st day of the week'' [sunday] is the “first day of the week” is the day of the resurrection and the birth of the church (Pentecost; cf. Leviticus 23:15-21, 33-36).
It is the first day of the new creation.
The first day of the week is rooted in the saving act of God in the gospel. The day has redemptive-historical significance as its explicit notation in each of the Gospel stories stresses
(Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1-2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).
Jesus as the “first fruit” (1 Corinthians 15:20-23) of the first day resurrection and power of eternal life.

you lay the false charge of ''my iniquity'' against me, when I DO EXACTLY as the disciples did.
may i add you are in gross darkness when you cannot even see THE LIGHT OF THE NT GOSPEL culture.


On the first day of the week, Jesus first appeared to his disciples, broke bread with them and ate in their presence while showing himself to be alive (Luke 24:13,30,33,46),
and one week later did the same thing (John 20:19,26).

what is the fate of a false witness Latuwr?

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” Exodus 20:16

“There are six things that the Lord hates....one is a false witness who breathes out lies,”
Proverbs 6:16-19


yes indeed - time to look in the mirror Latuwr
- time to see the man in his true light,
- time to wonder, what caused the strong delusion,
- time to rethink about your future status and the fate that awaits those who are jerking around the scriptures to make them void of the Kingdom culture and the finished work.

*poor lying white
*poor perverted armstrong are now in a place [perdition] that their worst nightmare could not even begin to envisage - perhaps it is time to reflect and repent of apostate beliefs so you may escape so great a corruption.

so are you ACCUSING THE LORD as well as me for not being a bequiled sabbath keeper too.
ummmm - your accurations of iniguity of the Lord shows the evil intent of the heart.
Just like Paul warns - dont listen to a Judaizer.

what is the fate of those men who creep in and preach selected verses to prove a point and NOT THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF THE LORD and His redemptive plans over His Ekklesia. They are '' a son of perdition'' - a judas in sheeps clothing - a tare - a pretender a play actor - who ''goes to their place''.

Latuwr
Sep 8th, 2012, 8:09 AM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

Both Mrs. White and Mr. Armstrong died in their sins, did they not? And they paid for their sins through their physical deaths because they did not believe as you yourself do that Yahushua came to save them from sin and physical death. They could not prove that they had already died so they like the vast majority of mankind had to pay the penalty for their sin, which, of course, is physical death. The Law requires death for the sinner so they indeed had to die because they were sinners, i.e. the wages of sin is death.

Now, you imagine that it is going to be different for you, right? Would you mind explaining to me and to the others that are reading here as we write, how it is that you, being a sinner, just like Mrs. White and Mr. Armstrong, why should you live while they were required to die for their sins? After all, you know, Lucy, the Law does require that Sabbath Breakers must die or be cut off (Numbers 15:35). How will you escape receiving the just wage of your Sabbath Breaking, that is, your own physical death? How will you yourself escape dying in your sins?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Sep 8th, 2012, 3:43 PM
what you fail to understand correctly Latuwr is CONVERSION.
that is your problem and 99-9% of the churched.

the pews die IN sin, never understanding HOW TO DIE TO SIN.


did you see that Latuwr - LEARNING HOW TO CONTAIN THE ANOINTING [CHRIST] TO DIE TO SIN. C.O.N.V.E.R.S.I.O.N. from death into life.

church has failed the CONVERSION TESTS and have not beEN ''conformed to His image'' - not 1 churched person can walk planet earth MINISTERING IN THE SAME WAYS AS THE SAVIOUR for 2000yrs this church nonsense is been going on and billions of the church die in sin.
why?
because like you - they have all sat under man, and accepted man's version of bible beliefs with a twist as you have done by heeding the vile rubbish from an ego mad pervert ARMSTRONG telling you how to think.
Who BTW never obeyed his own teaching but went dancing friday night with his daughter he continually raped and when asked '' they will see us '' the religious pervert said '' No i have them all well trained up ''

HA DE HA HA HA.

[ all publically recorded if u care to so some seeking for the truth ]


HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOO duped one.

note well - you fessed up it was the pervert herbert who convinced you - NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT oh no, THE PERVERT SAID - SO YOU JUMPED THRU THE HOOP and licked his boots and obeyed and have paid a dear price for your accursed gospel practices. ever since.

Never mind what ye say with your lips - IT IS THE LIFE WE LED, that STATES - HOW WE OVERCAME SATAN. = you failed in your accursed gospel assembly, ran away as satan overcame you and many suffered from your accursed preaching.


YOU WERE TOTALLY UNABLE TO STAND IN YOUR EVIL DAY.Mr. Judazier.

so what went wrong - it is simple you are a MAN LISTENER - A MAN PLEASER - A MAN BELIEVER - A MATRIX MAN - A MAN WHO WAS NEVER ABLE TO OVERCOME THE MATRIX but remained entrenched within it thinking ''i am saved''.

why dont you bear the fruits of salvation?
THE FRUIT OF LIBERTY - BEING WISE UNTO SALVATION you bear the fruits of curses....
where is LIFE ABUNDANT in you? all there is is destruction and harm and distress and hate. year in year out same old same old.

so!!!! what you need silly man, is to REPENT and change and be converted into eternal life - give up religious man pleasing habits - and return back into SPIRITUAL LIFE.

- BE TRUE TO YOURSELF FOR ONCE AND BE WISE ENOUGH TO FULLY UNDERSTAND - YOU ARE A SPIRITUAL BEING made visible by a human body.

You like all religious men allow YOUR BODY AND 5 SENSES to DOMINATE - the sin of Eve is in you, as you are moved by your 5 senses and all the tricks and illusions the SERPENT threw at eve and she believe him and stopped living in paradise Kingdom.

Jesus came to set you free from the illusion of this vanity - the law of Moses to the jews did not.

The call went out ''REPENT for the Kingdom of God is at hand''.

YOU HAVE NOT DONE THAT - ''o yes'', you will say ''I have'' - but if you had you would NEVER allow the WORKS OF THE OT to hinder your conversion into life of the spirit.

THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME - TO TEACH MEN how to survive live here and live as a saviour - a dwelling place of Father called Zion - a city not made by human hands - the elect, the small remnant WHO UNDERSTAND HOW TO ATTAIN TO THE HIGH CALLING of the out resurrection from the dead - the 1 st fruit company - HIS WORKMANSHIP - His ekklesia to be revealed at the anointed time WHO ARE PROGRESSIVELY learning how to overcome the serpent nature, their flesh and the powers of illusion /trance like state called the Matrix [womb] of vanity.

Paul said '' we are to be formed into the likeness of Christ '' = THIS WORD ''christ'' is the unlimited ability of the Father working in our lives and flowing out from our lives to reproduce ETERNAL LIFE.
life florishes over His overcomers.

THIS eternal life only comes as a believer BOWS DOWN AND DOES THE WILL OF THE FATHER - as Jesus did and This will is to BECOME A NEW CREATION - and this New creation no longer PRACTICES SIN, why?

because sin is wages and these wages are death.

Jesus, Blood called the blood of the Lamb, overcomes satan as well as the word of their testimony by loving not their lives unto death.
This does not mean, they physically die, but they gave up their lives to become eternal life beings.
HOW - THEY OVERCAME.
you see Latuwr - church does not teach anyone HOW TO OVERCOME - but the Holy Spirit does.
IT IS HIS JOB TO DIVINELY EDUCATE A BELIEVER to overcome all things.
IT IS HIS WORK - CALLED WORKMANSHIP that does this training up.

YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN in the school of overcomers WHO LIVE BY FAITH FOR WHAT IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.
IT IS A FAITH WALK,
THE CEMENT OF THE KINGDOM IS BY FAITH
the new creation is formed NOT BY OT WORKS - IT IS A DIFFERENT DISPENSATION BUT BY FAITH.
FAITH IS FORMED BY HEARING and this hearing is the divine advice that works as a believer obeys by having the same faith to overcome as the Saviour had.

FAITH IS OPPOSITE SEEING
seeing is the veil of illusion called vanity and this veil has to be rent over the eyes so A BELIEVER SEES the truth - that the matrix is a lie thats seems so real,

you dont see this Latuwr, you see your OT works as part of your salvation that is why you suffer an accursed life as do those around you.
The fruit of your beliefs brings destruction to you and yours.

PHYSICAL DEATH RAN AWAY AT THE SOUND OF JESUS VOICE.
HE SAID TO THE SOLDIERS THAT DAY '' I AM'' AND THEY FELL BACKWARDS AND RAN.

THAT IS THE POWER OF CHRIST IN HIM that does it - why?
because Jesus was a human man, who was subjected to death - FOR Joseph took him to Egypt so Herod could not kill him, but after His training period DEATH WAS SUBJECTED TO JESUS.

Jesus was EDUCATED not by religious man BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT and this education stopped his carnal mind [called death] from being activated - so satan was always on the back foot and had nothing on Jesus.

you have learnt Matrix religion as 99% of people do. and satam stomps all over you

You placed yourself under the teachings of man and so have NO idea how to OVERCOME BY FAITH AND WALK IN IT DAILY AND SEE FAITH MAKE THE KINGDOM OF GOD [HEAVEN] IN YOUR LIFE .
Faith makes the Lord our shepherd Ps 23 '' i shall not want''
But you lack Latuwr, so many things - therefore the Lord is not your shepherd
why?
- lacking is proof and the fruit of NO Shepherd - you choose to sit under a HIRELING AND A PIMP who taught you how to think his dead way.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Sabbath has nothing to do with doing nothing on a saturday.
you dont see this why? because your not educated by the Spirit of life.

THE REAL SABBATH REST IS NOT A DAY BUT A REALM above the Matrix where a believer RESTS IN HIS PROVISION AND CARE BY MAKING HIM THEIR SHEPHERD
= MATH 11 V 28-29-30 explains what is needed.

''COME UNTO ME''
I WILL GIVE YOU REST - the new creation sabbath -
LEARN OF ME
FOR I AM MEEK AND LOWELY OF HEART AND GIVE REST TO YOUR SOULS.
GIVE ME YOUR BURDEN HE SAYS
MY YOKE IS EASY.

now what does this mean in reality.?

it means all men simply cannot CARRY THEIR BURDENS of sin and rebellion and live in eternal life.
why?

THEY are not made to carry their personal burdens [sins] as the Law ot the jews proved.

THE HUMAN BEING WAS NEVER DESIGNED TO CARRY SIN WITHIN.
SIN KILLS.
THE NEW CREATURE IS EDUCATED TO GIVE their burden of sin to the Saviour and this is the true sabbath rest and the only 1 all the small remnant follow.

if the saturday sabbath keeping removed the burden of sin, the burden bearer would never have been needed.
I escape sin but allowing MY saviour ro remove my burdens for me, Just as He asks of me. I do as He says.

I do this - and sin ceases to be because HE WILL HAVE HIS EKKLESIA without spot nor wrinkle nor unclean thing.

This removal is war to the natural mind, because sin is a legacy of wrong choices.

I WAS NOT THERE THAT DAY, the wrong choices were made.
I WAS NOT CONSULTED ABOUT BEING A SINNER NOR MAKING A CHOICE.
I WAS DUMPED into this wrong choice realm UNWILLINGLY.
BUT
NOW I HAVE A CHOICE - TO BE SCHOOLED outside of rebellion, outside of the serpent, outside of lies and illusions that seem real.
I HAVE A CHOICE TO BE MADE WILLING TO SERVE HIS KINGDOM and his Kingdom is not found in 613 laws no man could keep.
Infact all those souls born into that dispensation had it very hard to bear - the Apostle called it A YOKE TO HARD TO BEAR dont give it to the gentiles.

Jesus removed the Yoke - to give His Believers His yoke that is easy and light.

you should look in the mirror today Latuwr and you should see a law man who is not saved nor free nor walking in life abundant with the fruits to show others.
you should repent of this woe-filled life of slavery to a man who despised you all and who made a mockery of the Gospel.

you should seek holy education that stops you from sinning '' didnt Jesus say to others ''GO AND SIN NO MORE''
- who said sin is compulsary,
who said sin cannot cease?
JESUS SAID GO AND SIN NO MORE - was He a liar?

why not find out, why Jesus said '' go and sin no more'' - and seek His face to stop your sins killing you.

johnBeeone
Sep 8th, 2012, 4:20 PM
Here just a reminder...^_^ so other reader's can relate on this discussion ^_^ If I speak in the tonguesa of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.<------ 1Cor13


Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.1Cor14


If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

LucySmith
Sep 9th, 2012, 1:29 AM
cont to Latuwr

you see, the problem here is all religious men are bonded to sin.
that is THE PROBLEM.
THE CARNAL MIND OF MAN IS DEATH.

what all religious men do is OBSERVE THE HISTORY OF JESUS - not the MYSTERY.

the 2 religious freaks you sit under called Armstrong and White were bonded to sin - so they died.
sin kills all men who do not walk in the Presence of the Lord
why?
THEIR CARNAL MIND is FILLED WITH THEIR OWN RELIGION which KILLED THEM.

You unfortunately got stuck into 7th day Adventism via your mentor Herbert A. but ofcourse the serpent could have directed you into the Pentecostal system and their self motivational hype posing as the holy Spirit as they fall backwards in a ''slain way'' and talk gibberish to themselves, in unknown tongues, a sure sign the devil is present as they too die in sin.
the ''originator'' of their gibberish was also found to be a fraud too... what's her name, ''agnas ozman'' - yes another religious fraud bites the dust.

Ofcourse you could also have been interested in the RC church system and had Mother Mary and rosary beads and crosses and statues to bow and kiss and the pope as your mentor.
But again under this dying priesthood the poor deluded pews have no hope but death.
No different than yourself, its all just another branch of the same evil system that all carnal minded men find attractive.

Or how about the Mormons,, after your ex wife departed perhaps by now you could have had more 2, 3 4 or more wives and more children and wear the sacred underwear that stops the evil.
You could have told us what was on those golden plates and wised us up on those weird services and theories they have. I do believe you have missed a great opportunity here latuwr - after all you could have rushed around heaven and seeded up all those beautifull virgins.
o dear , perhaps you could be ''converted''. why not!!!

But, wait for it, the JWs - you missed out of door knocking saying ''the sky is falling run to us as we are the true church, give us your dollars today''
so many churches,
so much death and perishing,
so much ignorances
so little hope
so much carnality
so many tombs

well i could go on and on babes, but i guess by now you see my drift......
NO LIFE,
NO HOPE
NO GLORY
but a man made up system that is only attractive to the carnal mind of man. THERE LIES YOUR REAL PROBLEM -

FRANKLY i hate their whorish system and i hate what those 2 freaks have done to your mind and the shame it has brought to you and your kin.

WHEN YOU MIX WITH THE CURSES - when you play with the curses - you become the accursed.
but what is saddest part is -YOU THEN DEFEND THEIR EVIL.

You see, the whole plan has nothing to do with an historical Jesus - the Man - and everything to do WITH THE MYSTERY OF THE BE-GOTTEN SON OF GOD.
THAT BEGOTTEN son is our example of every manchild born onto this planet, who is made wise TO SO GREAT A SALVATION.
every person has to awaken to transformation, or die, being bound to sin.
also what is sad is Eve FOUND THE SERPENT ATTRACTIVE AND his message SEDUCED HER away - just as H.Armstrong seduced you away from the Gospel as he programmed your mind to obey him as a Judaizer.
you have been seduced away and mind controlled by a person who was a declared rapist.
you have been mind controlled by wickedness and now pay the price of great loss and wants.

people are known by the life they lead before others - what they say with their lips is irrevelant.
irrevelant = not applicable or pertinent

you lips serice is not applicable to your life service and testimony.

how sad for you - remember those who twist the gospel and make it void and void grace given enter into that place your worst nightmare cannot even imagine.

johnBeeone
Sep 9th, 2012, 4:38 AM
Why not make a school or a foundation that you are the founder ^_^

LucySmith
Sep 9th, 2012, 5:39 AM
still cont... to Latuwr.
i would like you to consider 33.000+ demon opps denominations of which you are apart namely adventism and law keeping.
The world is awash in denominations, all claiming for themselves the title of the true movement of God.
They all seem to have a good number of Scriptures to prove their assertions about themselves. Do you see yourself here Latuwr and the few scriptures you use?

The religious use the Scriptures to show how they are the true, and original church, that all men should join.
On the other hand, they are quite adept at proving why some other church is not the true church. They can show how the other denominations are deceived, and they warn their little flock about consorting with the deceived.
do you see yourself warning me of ''my so called iniquity'' for not keeping some parts of the law to the Jews?

how is it that all these demon, opps denominations, who think they know so much, cannot agree on so many things between themselves.
ummm.
you were told your'e belief was the truth. Here you are let us look at yourself.

Adventists believe that true followers of God will keep the commandments.
They especially point to the fourth commandment that says, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
These people believe that the ones who keep Sunday have the mark of the beast,

Did you know Latuwr, your'e not saved by the verses you quoted, even if you quoted the whole 1000 bible pages - it will not save you. NO.If your church belief does not change you into a Son of God, your religion is worthless. see this WORD Latuwr.
WORTH -LESS
WORTHLESS than you were before.
you are worth less, than you were before.


The Lord is not looking for a armstrong/white religious clone Latuwr -He is looking for Sons.
let this revelation sink into your befuddled mind.


Father is not moved by your singing on Sabbath / Sunday down at the local religious gathering you support or in your wee assembies.
He only cares for one thing. Are you moving into the same likeness as His Son?

now Latuwr I wish you to consider this very carefully - His Son does not sin against Him.
did you see this?
His Sons don't not sin against Him

Jesus did not go around expiating His sins, and wringing His hands, while making restitution for them.
He was the Son of God as ARE ALL WHO BELIEVE.
Jesus was like God, as ALL ARE WHO ARE BELIEVING IN HIM.
I dont have to have you tell me how to serve MY Saviour via your teacher i.e. a man who died in sin.
why not?

We know that whoever is born of God doesn't sin; but he that is begotten of God guards himself, and that wicked one cannot touch him. John 5:18.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 6:22.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. Rom. 6:14

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Rom. 11:27.



i especially like this one For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. Rom. 6:14

shall i write the opposite.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. Rom. 6:14
'''if you are under the Law you are not under Grace, therefore SIN SHALL HAVE DOMINION over you''.
there is your problem and what killed off the Armstrong/white - sin still had dominion over them.

these very clearly stated words - When one is under grace, he is no longer under sin. Sin has no more power in his life.
that is exactly why the law of Moses mixed with grace is an accursed gospel.
why?
the power of sin/ the power to sin still remains within.

A believer is cleansed from his/her sins "by the blood of Christ."
He is cleansed from ALL of them.
They are not there anymore and the sinner does not live in them anymore.
He now lives in God, filled with Him, and made One with Him.
The blood of the Anointing, the blood of Christ, cleanses from ALL sin, for it is written: "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
1 John 1:7.

that is why a Believer can overcome all things. BY the blood of the Lamb.

The blood of the natural lamb killed, its blood placed on the lintel saved the Hebrews from death as the angel of death passed over them
HOW MUCH MORE shall a believer be saved and survive alive when they overcome by the Blood of the lamb as their testimony.

why do they have this testimony?

a Believer becomes a new man altogether.

Father God is now his life and not he, himself.

Now, the righteousness of God is his own righteousness.

No more trying to be good, for Goodness lives within him.

Goodness acts out His will within him and he is always expressing that Goodness in the life he now lives, which is not himself, but the Christ Who is living out His Own life within him.

Now he/she is fit for the kingdom of heaven realm.

This believer, who now lives the Christ life, hates , lying, cheating, and selfishness.

This believer loves God.
He/she has no interest whatever in all former desires.
He /she now has all new desires.

latuwr -Christ is the only salvation.
Your own works of righteousness + your in part of lawkeeping and good behavior, are not good enough for the Lord's Kingdom called heaven

tahn1000
Sep 9th, 2012, 5:48 AM
if you beleived christ to be your only salvation, lucysmith, you wouldn't worship the jewish god, and put more effort into keeping the commandments christ himself gave.

Latuwr
Sep 9th, 2012, 7:30 AM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Thank you for your replies. You wrote:

"I WAS NOT THERE THAT DAY, the wrong choices were made.
I WAS NOT CONSULTED ABOUT BEING A SINNER NOR MAKING A CHOICE.
I WAS DUMPED into this wrong choice realm UNWILLINGLY."

Are you sure? It is certain from the Scriptures that some of us had a preexistence as ELOHIM in a family. Consider:

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of ELOHIM came to present themselves before YAHWEH, and HaSatan came also among them.

It is clear that HaSatan existed from the Beginning (see John 8:44). What about the other Sons of ELOHIM who assembled with YAHWEH at the time of Job? Do you think that they also existed from the Beginning (Genesis 1:1) at the time when the Heaven and the Earth were created? Absolutely! Consider:

Job 38:7
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of ELOHIM shouted for joy?

Do you think it possible that the Morning Stars which sing and the Sons of ELOHIM which shout, do you think it possible that they all agreed to descend into the Matrix, giving up all their position and power and glory and knowledge, in order to become men and women? For what reason?

Consider:

Jeremiah 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the matrix I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

YAHWEH ELOHIM is following a certain plan, Lucy:

Ephesians 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the ELOHIM and Father of our YAHWEH Yahushua Messiah, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Messiah: (this blessing occurred from the Beginning)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (Let no one be deceived concerning love. Love is the completion of the Law; love is keeping the commandments of YAHWEH ELOHIM in both a physical and spiritual sense!)
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Yahushua Messiah to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

What we willingly gave up long ago, we receive back through the gathering of all into ONE. It is through this gathering that we all receive our inheritance. This is the greatest Kabbalah. It is the receiving through the spirit of My Messiah Yahushua.

Now, you have without mercy thoroughly castigated me for all the adversity that I have received in my life. I choose to look at it differently:

Heb 12:6
6 For whom YAHWEH loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, ELOHIM dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

You view chastisement as a curse; I view it as a blessing for I am not a bastard rather a Chosen Son. YAHWEH ELOHIM has given me HIS NAME through My YAHWEH Messiah Yahushua. How about you, Lucy, has ELOHIM chastened you in your life? Have you yourself been received? How is it then that you say that you dwell here in the Matrix unwilling?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

johnBeeone
Sep 9th, 2012, 7:44 AM
Did you know Latuwr, Sugar, We're Goin Down, even if you quoted the whole 1000 bible pages - it will not save you. NO.If your church belief does not change you into a Son of God, your religion is worthless. see this WORD Latuwr.
WORTH -LESS
WORTHLESS than you were before.
you are worth less, than you were before.
[/B] WOW ^_^ It's Judgement time already? On how and where can we all read this of all ancient text...and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
teaching,
rebuking,
correcting
and training in righteousness,

so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

LucySmith
Sep 9th, 2012, 1:37 PM
latuwr.
l am not going down the road of ''deep and meaningfull with you'' OK - i will stay simple so we both understand.
SIMPLE OK means without a twist and very easy to understand
1st.
the chastenings of the Lord, do not D.E.S.T.R.O.Y. and M.A.I.M. others so badly they need years of counselling. = got that?

2nd.
you are a NT bible Judiazer - a person who is described as cursed by preaching an accursed gospel how? by mixing the OT law to the jews with the NT gifts of faith and grace

3rd
Does your life testimony show forth the promised Life abundant or does it show forth the acts of destruction hurt and distress.

4th
when you accepted the Judaizer opinions of Armstrong/White - you accepted the curses that go with them and you made grace void IN YOUR LIFE.
Not only did you do this to yourself, [fair enough] without true NT knowledge, you submitted your wife + your children, + your small assembly to the full on destruction of satan.

5th
The results of this judaizer's curse is not found in your delusion of chastenings of the Lord - but in the destruction of all that goes with a family life. All these horror is publically confessed.
Now you suffer the discomfort of abandment and desertion. your natural house is deserted .
The NT says this '' when a man cannot control his home life, he cannot control the house of the Lord '' [paraphrased]

6th
none can pull the wool over A BELIEVERS eyes of HOLY discernment - YOUR lip service is not LIFE SERVICE with the fruit bearing testimony of ''they overcame satan'' - in your case it is quiet the reverse and ofcourse lawfull, as you opened the doorways into the realm of destruction and curses by following a Judaizers who crept into your life unawares as you slept on your watch.

johnBeeone
Sep 9th, 2012, 3:46 PM
Years of counselling ? ^_^ ....do we need that? are we had enough on all of this everyday experience good and bad? Well Good Morning...Everybody...^_^

LucySmith
Sep 9th, 2012, 4:17 PM
latuwr.
l am not going down the road of ''deep and meaningfull with you'' OK - i will stay simple so we both understand.
SIMPLE OK means without a twist and very easy to understand
1st.
the chastenings of the Lord, do not D.E.S.T.R.O.Y. and M.A.I.M. others so badly they need years of counselling. = got that?

2nd.
you are a NT bible Judiazer - a person who is described as cursed by preaching an accursed gospel how? by mixing the OT law to the jews with the NT gifts of faith and grace

3rd
Does your life testimony show forth the promised Life abundant or does it show forth the acts of destruction hurt and distress.

4th
when you accepted the Judaizer opinions of Armstrong/White - you accepted the curses that go with them and you made grace void IN YOUR LIFE.
Not only did you do this to yourself, [fair enough] without true NT knowledge, you submitted your wife + your children, + your small assembly to the full on destruction of satan.

5th
The results of this judaizer's curse is not found in your delusion of chastenings of the Lord - but in the destruction of all that goes with a family life. All these horror is publically confessed.
Now you suffer the discomfort of abandment and desertion. your natural house is deserted .
The NT says this '' when a man cannot control his home life, he cannot control the house of the Lord '' [paraphrased]

6th
none can pull the wool over A BELIEVERS eyes of HOLY discernment - YOUR lip service is not LIFE SERVICE with the fruit bearing testimony of ''they overcame satan'' - in your case it is quiet the reverse and ofcourse lawfull, as you opened the doorways into the realm of destruction and curses by following a Judaizers who crept into your life unawares as you slept on your watch.

to cont.
the sad facts Latuwr are this.
For 2000yrs religious men have had ''slinging bible verses contest'', by chucking them at each other as barbs and weapons of ''HOW RIGHT AM I''.
the whole bible has been thrown at men, verses taken out of context, as '' personal religious rights are proven in their own eyes'' and still they die in sin.
2000yrs and still no man seems to learn 1 basic lesson.
what is that?
HOW TO BE LOOSED from their carnal mind - called death.
IT IS ASTONISHING that such a MADNESS called church religion should be believed and clung too.

face it Latuwr - church people all die because of sin, the wages of sin is death.
face it Latuwr - church murders the pews.
Holiness is not there - if it was the people would not perish to sin.
HOLINESS is NOT so much A WORD but the power to walk in the PRESENCE OF GOD.
Enoch walked with God and was not.

now let us stand aside here and LOOK at a word here i wish to show you.
''ONE WAS TAKEN THE OTHER WAS LEFT''.
i wish you to see this 1 word ''left''.
as a spiritual detective, the truth is a seam of golden nuggets, here is 1.

If we look at the word LEFT it has it roots in a ''deserted woman'' like LEFT ON THE SHELF - a woman who didnt have a husband to care for her.
In the OT this was a terrible thing for a woman to be so deserted.
she was LEFT.
A Woman left, deserted having NO husband.
This woman could not find a husband.

that position, dear friend, is THE CHURCH SYSTEM - A WOMAN DESERTED having NO husband - THAT IS WHY they all die in sin.
They ARE NOT Married, TO THE DIVINE HUSBAND so are a deserted woman who perishes from lack of care.

well now Latuwr you may well say ''Ho Ho Ho'' but you see - the underlying truth here is ...

OUR SOUL [EVE] has to be MARRIED to OUR SPIRIT [MAN, called Christ in us ] so THIS REAL MAN of the Spirit controls our wayward Eve [soul] who finds the carnal senses and life in the Matrix so very adulterously attractive.
what people dont understand is The ''EVE'' in our souls MAKES WRONG CHOICES AND FOLLOWS THE BROADWAY into destruction.
she has to be MARRIED and conformed back to christ as her spiritual reality.

Now this maybe hard to digest at first glance, but once you get enlightened you will see IT IS THE DECEIVED ''EVE'' in us all, that causes death, because she cannot stop whore-ing.
now what is the church system called THE WHORE OF BABYLON [ THE WHORE WHO IS CONFUSED]
the WHORE HAS NO HUSBAND - she is LEFT.
No man could tame her desires.

you as a Judaizer HAVE NO ''HUSBAND'' TO KEEP YOU, SO YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR ''OT WORKS''.
you are a part of the whole whorish system, when you took a religious rapist's word over the anointed word of God.
This fact, is now being played out in your natural life.
left = latuwr.

johnBeeone
Sep 9th, 2012, 5:04 PM
and Now this is a real Fact...^_^

Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

ABeginner
Sep 9th, 2012, 5:41 PM
latuwr.
l am not going down the road of ''deep and meaningfull with you'' OK - i will stay simple so we both understand.
SIMPLE OK means without a twist and very easy to understand
1st.
the chastenings of the Lord, do not D.E.S.T.R.O.Y. and M.A.I.M. others so badly they need years of counselling. = got that?

2nd.
you are a NT bible Judiazer - a person who is described as cursed by preaching an accursed gospel how? by mixing the OT law to the jews with the NT gifts of faith and grace

3rd
Does your life testimony show forth the promised Life abundant or does it show forth the acts of destruction hurt and distress.

4th
when you accepted the Judaizer opinions of Armstrong/White - you accepted the curses that go with them and you made grace void IN YOUR LIFE.
Not only did you do this to yourself, [fair enough] without true NT knowledge, you submitted your wife + your children, + your small assembly to the full on destruction of satan.

5th
The results of this judaizer's curse is not found in your delusion of chastenings of the Lord - but in the destruction of all that goes with a family life. All these horror is publically confessed.
Now you suffer the discomfort of abandment and desertion. your natural house is deserted .
The NT says this '' when a man cannot control his home life, he cannot control the house of the Lord '' [paraphrased]

6th
none can pull the wool over A BELIEVERS eyes of HOLY discernment - YOUR lip service is not LIFE SERVICE with the fruit bearing testimony of ''they overcame satan'' - in your case it is quiet the reverse and ofcourse lawfull, as you opened the doorways into the realm of destruction and curses by following a Judaizers who crept into your life unawares as you slept on your watch.

Shalom Lucy, you absolutely do not know what you are talking about. The destruction of our assembly was Satan's attempt to keep the Truth from destroying his and your realm, and it's not going to succeed. Your false accusations about why our assembly and Latuwr's family was disseminated, had nothing to do with doctrine, it was all about one brothers sin. Sort of how your sin of Sabbath breaking disseminates your families ability to believe and know the Truth. Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

LucySmith
Sep 9th, 2012, 6:45 PM
o!!! the brother, Abeliever, speaketh. - in delusion [as usual].
http://www.ukapologetics.net/1HERB.htm

the accursed gospel of a Judaizer is satan's delusion to your whore-ish attempts to divert the gospel of grace and make it void.
PAUL WARNED OVER GROUPS LIKE YOU.

the truth is NOT found in the Judaizer's attempts to ruin the gospel that abolished death and defeated the devil.

i know exactly what i post Abeliever and it is not jerked around by the likes of a CHILD rapist called H. armstrong and his religious empire building exploits, Nor, by a demonic brain damaged woman he copied his pitifull gospel off.

you and yours choose to follow the lies of Judaizer that you need to add the law of Moses to gain faith and grace
all BS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
question?
did The HOLY spirit whisper a Judaizer's Gospel into Herberts ears as he continually raped his young child for over 10yrs? or was it satan and his views, raping the mind with lies?

ummm
question?
IF THE TRUTH REMAINED THE TRUTH according to adventism
why was the whole WWCofG disbanned after the death of herbert, and why did people leave in droves and why do the remaining few now hold their services on a sunday.

hello Mr, Judaizer. so much for the truth u have.

so ''ha ha ha de ha ha ha to you''Mr false witness, you have NO idea of the truth - for the truth is NOT found IN you and what needs to happen is to have a course to re-root you both into NT Gospel that DEFEATS THE DEVIL - NOT HOLD HANDS WITH him.

Abeliever.... you need to....
comprehend to NT new creation, based on faith BY Grace and come out from satanic deceptions.. pronto.

http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/mike_ep/exam/exam.htm#Questioning HWAs fruits


IT IS ALL RECORDED IN THE NT - PAUL WRITES ITH ANGRY TEARS '' DONT HEED A JUDAIZER's GOSPEL'.
http://www.ukapologetics.net/1HERB.htm

Questioning HWA's fruits

"None of God's Servants Were Perfect" (for
those who like to use this reasoning)

Herbert W. Armstrong and the Incest


Letter About Herbert Armstrong and the Incest
Sent to: "Dear Friends in the Worldwide Church of God"


Why Herbert W. Armstrong Couldn't Have Been God's True Apostle
Includes link at end to: How I "Proved" Herbert W. Armstrong Was God's Apostle


Worldwide Church of God History
Transcription of message by Ken Westby message reveals how HWA treated those that dared asked questions and confront the abuses; shows double standards of the Armstrongs



Robert Gerringer 1975 Letter to Charles Hunting
Reveals how Herbert Armstrong was confronted time and again with doctrinal issues and failed to change. Covers double standards, false prophecies, bad fruit, lack of intellectual freedom of the members to think for themselves, etc. Also covers how we felt the Worldwide Church of God was God only true church.


Jack Kessler 1981 Letter to Worldwide Church of God Board of Directors
Reveals the evil of the continuing, persistent financial abuses in HWA's Worldwide Church of God and the shocking moral depravity.


.


Questioning HWA's background

Background exposť on HWA's early activities
Revealing info.


HWA's early racist activities


HWA studied communism


Radio Church of God openly embraced the agenda of the American Communist Party
This also includes info about "Communism and the Churches."


Herbert Armstrong Used Mein Kampf as a Guide in Controlling People


HWA's questionable activities in international governmental affairs


The Private Letters of Herbert W. Armstrong and Loma D. Armstrong
HWA and his wife were very active in international governmental affairs following the United Nations' first meeting held in San Francisco in 1945.


The Conspiracy Was Strong - The Discernment Ministries
Herbert W. Armstrong is mentioned in Parts 1-3 of this in-depth report--search for the words "Worldwide Church of God; also mentions the FBI files on Herbert Armstrong and Stanley Rader; covers Anthony Buzzard. [offsite link]


Letter Regarding FBI Files on the Worldwide Church of God


Worldwide Church of God and Herbert Armstrong
Includes background info about HWA.





[Questioning HWA's methods

How Did Herbert W. Armstrong Recruit People?
The step-by-step process.


Did Herbert W. Armstrong Abuse His Flock?
Includes additional: How Did the Worldwide Church of God Abuse its Members?


Dropouts See Hucksterism Where They Once Saw God
Newspaper article.


Did Herbert W. Armstrong Change Words of Sacred Hymns?


Lifton's Eight Criteria of Mind Control
Includes how it has been used by Herbert Armstrong and authoritarian offshoots.


Comparisons Between PCG and the Roman Catholic Church
Shows how HWA used methods of the RCC.



Latuwr confessed he was influenced by armstrongism - and began keeping saturday sabbath and other 3 laws to the jews.


Herbert W. Armstrong's Religious Roots
The origin of Herbert's unique doctrines.


What Were the Lies and What is the Truth?
Replacing HWA's fear-based statements with the truth from the Word of God.


Where Do I Find the "One True Church"?


The Law of Moses and the Grace of God
Excellent article.


Must We Keep the Law for Salvation?
Answers many scriptural questions.


Are We Still Under the Law in Spite of Grace?
Includes at bottom: "Aren't works necessary for salvation?"


Why Church Leaders Demand Holy Days For Their Members
Could it have anything to do with control?


How can I untangle my mind from HWA's dogma? (Q&A)


Articles and Writings on the Holy Days
Helpful for those who are questioning whether or not to keep the O. T. feast days.


Should the Sabbath be Observed Today?
Excellent study.


Sabbath and Sunday (Common Arguments and Misunderstandings)


Discernment of Truth and Deceptions
Examining Sabbatarian theology.


Thirty-Six Pro Sabbath Arguments Examined


The Sabbath Law [offsite link]
6 MP3 messages by Aaron Budjen; free download; excellent study.


A Critique of Which Day is the Christian Sabbath?
Critique of HWA's Sabbath booklet.


Did Jeroboam Change the Sabbath to Sunday?


Tithing and Sheep in Wolves Clothing
Who really is changing times and laws?


We Put the "Give Way" to the Test
Is it true that you can't out-give God?


Third Tithe - Where Did it Really Go?


Understanding the tithe
Explains the purpose of the tithe in Israel and goes on to show why tithing has no application in the church today; includes explanation of Malachi 3 and Hebrews 7) [offsite link]


Tithing?
Brief, but good article on tithing vs. Spirit-directed giving. [offsite link]


"Bible Correspondence Course" (an Examination)
Are you able to realize the things unproven and unsupported by Scripture that have been slipped into your Bible Correspondence Course? Includes questions to help you find out.


British-Israelism--True or False?


Where Are the Tribes of Israel Located? (A Critique of Herman Hoeh's Article)
Shows incredible fabrications and lack of concrete, detailed proof.


The Origins of Assyria and Germany
This article shows the fallacy in HWA's teaching that the Assyrians "settled in central Europe, and the Germans are the descendants of the ancient Assyrians."


How is the Term Israel Used in the New Testament?
Shows how the church is not "spiritual Israel") (also covers Gal 6:16. [offsite link]


A Comparison and Contrast Between Israel and the Church[offsite link]


A Critique of "You Are Saved by Grace!"
Critique of Stephen Flurry's booklet.


The Sin Question
Explains what "dead to sin" and "dead to the Law" really mean.


Let Go of Days, Take Hold of Christ
Is it necessary to observe holy days and rituals in order to gain eternal life?


What About the Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast?
Shows that this teaching originally came from the Seventh-day Adventists. [offsite link]


Unclean Meats Not a Law For Christians
This command is found only in the Mosaic Law. Covers "unclean food." [offsite link]


Do We Only Receive the Holy Spirit As a Result of Baptism?
Do we receive God's Spirit as a result of faith, or faith plus baptism? How do we receive the Holy Spirit and what does the Holy Spirit do in the believer's life today?


Is the Holy Spirit Only the Power of God?
Also lists the Scriptures showing the two natures of Jesus--God/Man.


Comparing the Biblical Revelation of the Godhead with the Armstrongist View
Covers "the God family," whether Jesus and the Holy Spirit were God, etc. [offsite article]


"The Resurrection Was Not on Sunday" (A look at Herbert W. Armstrong's Booklet)


Any Good Doctrine in the Herbert Armstrong Era?
Includes: Doctrines of Devils - Did Herbert Armstrong teach them?


Doctrines of Devils - Did Herbert Armstrong teach them?


What is the Gospel?(also shows what the gospel is not)


Did Christ Reorganize the Church?
1939 article from the February 1939 Good News showing HWA condemned hierarchal church government in his early years. [offsite article]




"Thou maketh this people to trust in a lie." ~ Jeremiah 28:15



so Abeliever, whose satan's pal? ummm...go look in the mirror
and
why do you believe a lie?

its called bewitched and bothered and deluded.

LucySmith
Sep 9th, 2012, 7:01 PM
so to conclude...'


Jesus said he came to set men free, and His was a law of liberty—not a law of oppression. (Galatians 6:2)

In the New Testament, the old covenant is described as being a "yoke of bondage" (Galatians 5:1) and a law that brought about death, not life.

Once we are able to comprehend this, and begin to think "outside the Armstrong box" then we can begin to make progress toward understanding what it was that Christ and the apostles said and what was written.

The WCG practiced a form of Old Testament Christianity.
Adherence to the law, especially the Sabbath, was mandated with all the zeal of the Pharisees of Jesus’ time.

Adherence to the law is described in the New Testament Scriptures as being a veil over the eyes. (II Corinthians 3:15-16)

Only when the focus is taken off the law and placed on Christ is the veil removed.
With all this prefaced then, it should be easier for one who was immersed in Armstrong legalism to begin to discern the truth, and the errors taught by the WCG.


so there u have it boys...
your loss.
you need to repent be born again and actually become alive from the dead........

there is enough bible evidences against you both - of preaching an accursed Gospel and then receiving the brunt of those curses upfront and very personal.
lucy exits......................

ABeginner
Sep 9th, 2012, 8:47 PM
so to conclude...'

so there u have it boys...
your loss.
you need to repent be born again and actually become alive from the dead........

there is enough bible evidences against you both - of preaching an accursed Gospel and then receiving the brunt of those curses upfront and very personal.
lucy exits......................

Shalom Lucy, go ahead and "exit," but you and your children are going to be so ashamed of your blasphemy against the Truth (Psa 119:142 and 1 John 4:6), there is not going to be enough tears to go around. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Beatnik Bob
Sep 10th, 2012, 1:55 PM
The discussion in this thread is borderline Asperger's.

ABeginner
Sep 10th, 2012, 7:20 PM
The discussion in this thread is borderline Asperger's.

Shalom Beatnik Bob, I guess being borderline Asperger's is better than being between a bullet and a target. Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

Lillith
Sep 10th, 2012, 9:09 PM
The discussion in this thread is borderline Asperger's.

Hard to believe they are Christians ...at each others throats this way over who is right or wrong, who is a Judaizer or not.
Or who has the greater truth, faith or knowledge.

Me thinks its really EGOS having at and tearing into each other. And perhaps its this that their Christ would take real issue with because its the one primary thing of importance they SAY they all have in common. Their undying, unyielding, professed "Love"

None of which I would want as displayed, taught or preached, from any of them.

You see, when its all said and done, isnt it really about THEIR love and beliefs that should actually take precedent over all everything, or anyone ELSES beliefs?

A basic spiritual concept which I don't think any of them quite grasp.

ABeginner
Sep 11th, 2012, 5:51 AM
Hard to believe they are Christians ...at each others throats this way over who is right or wrong, who is a Judaizer or not.
Or who has the greater truth, faith or knowledge.

Me thinks its really EGOS having at and tearing into each other. And perhaps its this that their Christ would take real issue with because its the one primary thing of importance they SAY they all have in common. Their undying, unyielding, professed "Love"

None of which I would want as displayed, taught or preached, from any of them.

You see, when its all said and done, isnt it really about THEIR love and beliefs that should actually take precedent over all everything, or anyone ELSES beliefs?

A basic spiritual concept which I don't think any of them quite grasp.

Shalom Lillith, some parents really don't "love" their children as they should, and they withhold the necessary discipline their children need. I'm sure that IF you have any children, you wouldn't treat them as "bastards," would you (Heb 12:8)? And do you have ANY truth, faith, or knowledge, about anything? How about an ego, are you completely without an ego? And about fighting, do you fight tooth and nail for YOUR spiritual concepts? Just some easy questions for you. Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 7:10 AM
Hard to believe they are Christians ...at each others throats this way over who is right or wrong, who is a Judaizer or not.
Or who has the greater truth, faith or knowledge.

Me thinks its really EGOS having at and tearing into each other. And perhaps its this that their Christ would take real issue with because its the one primary thing of importance they SAY they all have in common. Their undying, unyielding, professed "Love"

None of which I would want as displayed, taught or preached, from any of them.

You see, when its all said and done, isnt it really about THEIR love and beliefs that should actually take precedent over all everything, or anyone ELSES beliefs?

A basic spiritual concept which I don't think any of them quite grasp.

Test the Spirits

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

tahn1000
Sep 11th, 2012, 7:15 AM
"has come in the flesh"? and who is supposed to be this "christ in the flesh"?

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 7:19 AM
Yes Indeed but......^_^ “You believe at last!”b Jesus answered. “But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

tahn1000
Sep 11th, 2012, 7:26 AM
do you dare claim that christ did not say that any who converted to worshiping the jewish god is twice cursed?

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 7:43 AM
nope...uh uh that's the danger of paraphrasing..^_^

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. KJV

tahn1000
Sep 11th, 2012, 7:56 AM
well it's quite obvious that you paraphrase, rather than quote the bible.

John{16:31} Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? {16:32} Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. {16:33} These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

however i prefer to QUOTE the bible

Matthew{23:13} But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves,] neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. {23:14} Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. {23:15} Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

HE CALLS THE JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS MONSTERS AND HYPOCRITES WHO DAMN THE SOUL OF EVERY PERSON THEY CONVERT TO THEIR RELIGION!!!

PROSELYTE - a convert to jewism (and, according to christ, damned). and christians, worshiping the same god, are no better because they too ignore the word of christ.

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 8:04 AM
Very Good if you prefer to quote from the Bible because the Bible can Stand and Answer By itself..^_^ you just don't what really know what happens when I quote always from the Bible way back then 07-08 here on AO forum It is a mistake for eyes of the many but I Learn a lot...

Thanks to all my Haters I love you all...

tahn1000
Sep 11th, 2012, 8:10 AM
the words in corinthians are not christ's words.

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 8:53 AM
14But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. 15For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? 17Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God. 2 Corinthians 2:14-16

Can you Find Any Organization or Church in the Whole World?


18Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”a; 20and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”b 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephasc or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.1 Corinthians 3:18-23

2 Corinthians 10:7
7You are looking only on the surface of things.a If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as he.

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come,
who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness,
and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes;
that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. <----KJV

you can pick or seek a translations that suits your comprehension anyways your question is been answered already I just don't remember when and what is that topic here.. ^_^ truly when i find that it will give you a hint not to confuse you but rather for you to ask more and more a sound and logical questions...^_^



Here just a reminder...^_^ so other reader's can relate on this discussion ^_^ If I speak in the tonguesa of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.<------ 1Cor13


Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.1Cor14


If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

tahn1000
Sep 11th, 2012, 8:56 AM
what is in corinthians is not christ's words.

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 9:04 AM
what is in corinthians is not christ's words.

How Clever your Question is?

1Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:


10I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters,c by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.
11For some members of Chloe’s household have told me about your quarrels, my dear brothers and sisters.
12Some of you are saying, “I am a follower of Paul.” Others are saying, “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Peter,d” or “I follow only Christ.”
13Has Christ been divided into factions? Was I, Paul, crucified for you? Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul? Of course not! 14I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15for now no one can say they were baptized in my name.
16(Oh yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas, but I don’t remember baptizing anyone else.)

17For Christ didn’t send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News—and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power.

How Clever your Question is?

39Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!” 40And no one dared to ask him any more questions. Luke 20:39-40

tahn1000
Sep 11th, 2012, 9:42 AM
it was not a question, but a statement. what is in corinthians is not christ's word. furthermore, saul/paul was no follower of christ, not when he lived nor after. christ did not worship the jewish god.

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 9:48 AM
we need a "show" here ^_^ as your fairness if you get what i mean ^_^ as respect for our brother nephilim..

tahn1000
Sep 11th, 2012, 10:00 AM
is paul named as one of christ's apostles in the four books? no. therefore he was neither appointed nor accepted by christ, nor did he follow christ. so paul's claim in corinthians to be an apostle appointed by christ is false. and obviously, since christ was already dead, what is written in corinthians is not christ's own words. it's as simple as that. but i'm sure you'll find a way to twist what is false into "truth".

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 10:01 AM
What If the Book of Corinthians is Christ word and what if Apostle Paul is a follower of Christ?

I will give you a plenty Time to make this happen for a good cause ^_^ oh dear here we go again...Hopefully they will not banned me again..

tahn1000
Sep 11th, 2012, 10:10 AM
sorry, i don't spread falsehoods.

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 10:22 AM
Why? you have your chance and so many people and source that will support you....okei I understand you and you are familiar I just don't really know when?

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 10:25 AM
Come On you have a Big Heart Right? You want us to be enlightened please share us

Why? you have your chance and so many people and source that will support you....okei I understand you and you are familiar I just don't really know when?


"Truly one life of living to a man to live here on this so called Earth as for training ground"...-Beyond Evolving

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 10:29 AM
what happened how come it double post?

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 10:45 AM
is paul named as one of christ's apostles in the four books? no. therefore he was neither appointed nor accepted by christ, nor did he follow christ. so paul's claim in corinthians to be an apostle appointed by christ is false. and obviously, since christ was already dead, what is written in corinthians is not christ's own words. it's as simple as that. but i'm sure you'll find a way to twist what is false into "truth". and I'm not sure how can proved Historically but it's a good question or statement for knowing and searching the TRUTH.. is it absolute? or Universal?


6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospeló 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. Galatians 1:6-10

johnBeeone
Sep 11th, 2012, 10:51 AM
sorry, i don't spread falsehoods.

11Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 12And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.

13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.2 Corinthians 11

Apostle Pual died as early as 90AD



Acts 13

46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“‘I have made youg a light for the Gentiles,
that youh may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’i”

Latuwr
Sep 11th, 2012, 11:33 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

A number of different Yahushuas are preached and believed on in this world. The vast majority of Christians believe in a Yahushua that saves them will they are alive from an adverse fate after they die a physical death. They believe, then they die, and after death, they are saved from torment in hell solely because of the belief which they had in Yahushua while they were still alive.

Some groups like the JWs and the former Worldwide Church of God (Armstrongism) do not believe in the traditional Christian concept of the immortality of the soul. According to them, when the believer dies, the believer neither goes to heaven or to hell. The believer (a soul) goes into the grave, and the spirit of the believer goes back to ELOHIM. Both the JWs and the Worldwide Church of God believe therefore in the resurrection of the body, and they both look forward to the first resurrection at the return of Yahushua. All those who belong to Yahushua comprise this first resurrection. One qualifies for this first resurrection through faith in the grace of ELOHIM alone. So, the Worldwide Church of God like traditional Christianity believed that they could attain to the resurrection through faith alone, but Christians like Lucy are correct when they charge that the Worldwide Church of God mixed law and grace. The membership of the Worldwide Church of God stressed the teaching of James more than their perceived teaching of Paul. They understood that faith without works is dead, and they understood if one's faith is dead, then one's salvation is also dead. Consequently, they advocated doing (good works) many things from the Law in order to prove that one's faith is not dead. So, with Armstrongism, ultimately, the keeping of some Law is necessary for salvation, but, like Lucy, I found them to be inconsistent concerning which laws they stressed must be keep and to be very selective in the laws which they advocated all to follow.

My belief concerning the Law was developed in my mind before I became a member of the Worldwide Church of God. At my baptism, I believed that the Law must be approached as a whole. The Law of ELOHIM either stands or falls as a whole. It is foolish to divide the Law and say that this part counts while another part no longer counts. Even so, at my baptism, my hope was in the resurrection so at that time I believed in a Yahushua that came to save me from death after my physical death.

Years later, this all changed for me. I was blessed to see and understand that Yahushua is also my Savior from physical death, and I began to believe in LIFE NOW.

Right now, Lucy also believes in LIFE NOW, but there exists a very wide gap between us concerning just exactly how someone receives (kabbalah) LIFE NOW. We both believe that one receives LIFE NOW through belief or faith in Yahushua, but her belief in Yahushua is not my belief in Yahushua. Our faith is not the same so our Yahushuas are not the same. How does my faith in Yahushua differ from her own? Stick around for an answer!

Thanking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Lillith
Sep 11th, 2012, 9:11 PM
Its really just amazing...how you all come up with this convuluted "stuff' to the extent you create different versions of Christ.

But whats more amazing is how you feel so compelled to the point of obsession to drag other people over to your side as so called "true" believers of your one true God.

The bottom line is you keep creating God over and over again - lol

Its akin to a a merry go round at the amusement part or gerbel wheel.

Latuwr
Sep 12th, 2012, 6:48 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Moses wrote:

Deuteronomy 30:15-20
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love YAHWEH thy ELOHIM, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and YAHWEH thy ELOHIM shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other elohim, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love YAHWEH thy ELOHIM, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which YAHWEH sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

When My Messiah Yahushua heard these words, did HE believe them? I wonder, did Yahushua then choose LIFE? Absolutely! Did Yahushua then love and obey? Absolutely! This is written of My Messiah:

Hebrews 5:7-9
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Notice that Yahushua was made perfect, and how did Yahushua come into this perfection? HE learned obedience, did HE not? And who was it that instilled this discipline in Yahushua? Did not our Heavenly Father bring suffering into HIS life in order to teach HIM obedience! Absolutely (see Hebrews 2:10, Hebrews 12:6-9)!

If Messiah Yahushua believed Moses and did indeed choose LIFE for HIMSELF, is it possible that you and me can walk down the same road as did the Captain of our salvation? Can we also choose life rather than death? Can we also learn obedience through suffering? Is it possible that we can also have life in ourselves through choosing obedience?

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Sep 13th, 2012, 9:41 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

The Author of the Book of Hebrews states this concerning My Messiah Yahushua:

Hebrews 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to ELOHIM, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Please notice that My Messiah was made like unto HIS brethren in all things, and please notice that My Messiah was tempted. The vast majority of Christians believe that My Messiah Yahushua possessed a dual nature. They believe that Yahushua was both true ELOHIM and true Man. Does this not conflict with the above statement about Messiah? Indeed, Yahushua is the SEED of Abraham (see Galatians 3:16). What this all means is that the Messiah must come from the loins of Abraham (see Genesis 15:3-6). YAHWEH ELOHIM is not a man. If YAHWEH ELOHIM HIMSELF was the Father of Yahushua, then Yahushua is not the Seed of Abraham.

In like manner, this promise was made to David:

2 Samuel 7:12-16
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Please notice that the Seed of David must come forth from the bowels of David, and please notice that YAHWEH ELOHIM acknowledges that the Seed of David would also be HIS Son. Again, if YAHWEH ELOHIM furnished the seed that conceived Yahushua in the womb of Mary, then Yahushua did not come forth from the bowels of David, and we must conclude that YAHWEH ELOHIM lied to both Abraham and David.

How then does the Seed of David become the Son of YAHWEH ELOHIM?

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

tahn1000
Sep 13th, 2012, 12:37 PM
why are you talking about christ and quoting anything BUT his words?

Beatnik Bob
Sep 13th, 2012, 1:46 PM
it was not a question, but a statement. what is in corinthians is not christ's word. furthermore, saul/paul was no follower of christ, not when he lived nor after. christ did not worship the jewish god.
So why is he called the Son of God if he does not have a Father?

Here are Christ's words:
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"(Mark 15:34/Matthew 27:46).


If he can be a forsaken, what makes him a God in his own right?

calliope
Sep 13th, 2012, 3:07 PM
Latuwr, are you a convert to Judaism, or thinking about it? You seem to enjoy studying with your Rabbi, and learning the intricacies of Judaism.

Is it true that Kabbalah traditionally is reserved for study only after much intensive study of the traditional Jewish scholarship and holy works?

I was acquaintances with some Jewish converts. I always found that fascinating, and have considered it on occasion.

Latuwr
Sep 13th, 2012, 7:57 PM
Hi Calliope,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You asked:

"are you a convert to Judaism, or thinking about it?"

Not in the traditional sense! I am a convert in a mystical sense according to the Kabbalah which I have in My Messiah Yahushua. This receiving (1 Corinthians 15:1) is spiritual and not physical so I guess one could say that I am a spiritual Jew who has converted from traditional, historical Christianity to the true Judaism established by My Messiah Yahushua.

At one time, I did contemplate converting to traditional or physical Judaism. Indeed, I have a very dear friend who also attended those bible studies with the young Hasidic rabbi in training. This Brother later faithfully attended a conservative Jewish Synagogue with his family for well over a year. He studied Hebrew, keep Sabbath and the Holy Days with them, sent his sons to Hebrew day school, and was close to conversion. Our belief that Yahushua is the Messiah became a roadblock to his conversion so, no, I have not pursued physical conversion any further since conversion was rejected for my friend.

I know very little about traditional Kabbalah, but it makes sense to me that the study of Jewish mysticism would not come first. I did engage in extensive religious studies and struggles before My Messiah Yahushua revealed HIMSELF to me in the Law of Moses. This revealing changed my life, and it is still LIFE changing.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

calliope
Sep 14th, 2012, 2:37 PM
Thank you Latuwr, that was a very succinct and thoughtful answer. :angel:

Blessings on your path -- May your faith sustain you.

Latuwr
Sep 15th, 2012, 10:32 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

We do not know at what age My Messiah Yahushua began to recognize that YAHWEH was HIS Heavenly Father, but we at told that Messiah possessed that understanding at age 12 (see Luke 2:42 & 49). Having this understanding does not say that Messiah's Heavenly Father was also HIS earthly Father for we are all taught to pray to our Heavenly Father and all of us possess earthly fathers, do we not? What I am attempting to say right here is that Messiah Yahushua is actually a type of all of us. We can look at HIS life and understand the process whereby we come to spiritual life. We are all conceived and born physical as was Messiah Yahushua. At conversion, we are conceived as Believers in HIS Womb (Numbers 5:28, I know, this makes absolutely no sense to the reader!) by the spirit of YAHWEH ELOHIM through HIS Word. Our physical human sperm or seed is a shadow or picture of spiritual sperm (see 1 John 3:9 and 1 Peter 1:23). The spiritual sperm of YAHWEH ELOHIM is HIS spirit sown and made known through HIS Word.

Messiah Yahushua said this about HIS Speech, HIS Rhema:

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the speech that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

When the speech of the true Gospel enters into us through the hearing of the ear, this sowing has the capacity to begin spiritual life in us, and this LIFE is confirmed when additional spirit of ELOHIM is given to us through the laying on of hands. We, both Jew and Gentile, become Sons of ELOHIM through this process (1 John 4:13, 1 John 5:1-5)!

Accordingly, I recommend that all should read the words of ABeginner concerning the true Gospel as found on Lucy's Lazarus Thread at the end of page 60 and the beginning of page 61. His teaching has great power for all those called to receive it and to become Sons of ELOHIM like unto Yahushua.

Have a good Sabbath Day, Everyone!

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Beatnik Bob
Sep 15th, 2012, 7:40 PM
Its really just amazing...how you all come up with this convuluted "stuff' to the extent you create different versions of Christ.

But whats more amazing is how you feel so compelled to the point of obsession to drag other people over to your side as so called "true" believers of your one true God.

The bottom line is you keep creating God over and over again - lol

Its akin to a a merry go round at the amusement part or gerbel wheel.
Not all the posters in this thread have a mental disorder, but I can name at least one that does. Which inhibits their ability of objective thought.


Hi Calliope,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You asked:

"are you a convert to Judaism, or thinking about it?"

Not in the traditional sense! I am a convert in a mystical sense according to the Kabbalah which I have in My Messiah Yahushua. This receiving (1 Corinthians 15:1) is spiritual and not physical so I guess one could say that I am a spiritual Jew who has converted from traditional, historical Christianity to the true Judaism established by My Messiah Yahushua.

At one time, I did contemplate converting to traditional or physical Judaism. Indeed, I have a very dear friend who also attended those bible studies with the young Hasidic rabbi in training. This Brother later faithfully attended a conservative Jewish Synagogue with his family for well over a year. He studied Hebrew, keep Sabbath and the Holy Days with them, sent his sons to Hebrew day school, and was close to conversion. Our belief that Yahushua is the Messiah became a roadblock to his conversion so, no, I have not pursued physical conversion any further since conversion was rejected for my friend.

I know very little about traditional Kabbalah, but it makes sense to me that the study of Jewish mysticism would not come first. I did engage in extensive religious studies and struggles before My Messiah Yahushua revealed HIMSELF to me in the Law of Moses. This revealing changed my life, and it is still LIFE changing.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
So what is Jesus/Joshua/Yshua/Iesous to you?

Latuwr
Sep 16th, 2012, 9:03 AM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You asked:

"So what is Jesus/Joshua/Yshua/Iesous to you?"

The resurrected Yahushua is the restored YAHWEH ELOHIM. The resurrected Yahushua is an exact duplicate of what YAHWEH ELOHIM once was before the rebellion of HaSatan and his/her legions destroyed the unity of the ELOHIM long ago. This destruction of the unity of the Supreme Power of the whole universe was very similar to physical death experienced by humankind. At death, we humans lose control over our physical bodies. The same thing happened to the ELOHIM in the rebellion of HaSatan. The ELOHIM lost perfect control over the whole physical universe (see Romans 8:18-23). 2000 years ago this control was reestablished by the work of Messiah Yahushua through following a secret battle plan contained, on the whole, in the Law of Moses. As it is written:

Deuteronomy 29:29
29 The secret things belong unto YAHWEH our ELOHIM: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

From this Law, we learn that YAHWEH hides HIMSELF by revealing HIMSELF. Hidden behind the physical world is a whole secret spiritual world. These secret things, these esoteric things are where the real action takes place, and one has to be blessed to see these secret things. As it is written:

Psalms 119:18
18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

My Messiah Yahushua could see the secret things, and you know, what is really amazing to me today, is that Christians think that they know My Messiah Yahushua and none of them actually have any idea of the great work that My Messiah accomplished. They remain ignorant because they completely discount the Law of YAHWEH ELOHIM, not knowing that there exists a spiritual fulfillment of the Law which is hidden behind the physical fulfillment of the Law.

So, will you allow me to say that the resurrected Messiah Yahushua is the BOSS? HE is the great fulfiller, the restorer of all things!

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Traveler
Sep 16th, 2012, 9:18 AM
To say that this is christian fighting between each other is not true.

Fact is that there are none on here, these are competing something elses.

Beatnik Bob
Sep 16th, 2012, 10:51 AM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You asked:

"So what is Jesus/Joshua/Yshua/Iesous to you?"

The resurrected Yahushua is the restored YAHWEH ELOHIM. The resurrected Yahushua is an exact duplicate of what YAHWEH ELOHIM once was before the rebellion of HaSatan and his/her legions destroyed the unity of the ELOHIM long ago. This destruction of the unity of the Supreme Power of the whole universe was very similar to physical death experienced by humankind. At death, we humans lose control over our physical bodies. The same thing happened to the ELOHIM in the rebellion of HaSatan. The ELOHIM lost perfect control over the whole physical universe (see Romans 8:18-23). 2000 years ago this control was reestablished by the work of Messiah Yahushua through following a secret battle plan contained, on the whole, in the Law of Moses. As it is written:


You do understand that YHVH is an Elohim, but Elohim is not YHVH. Right?

Elohim made man in their image. YHVH is God. The creation story never says "YHVH."


So, will you allow me to say that the resurrected Messiah Yahushua is the BOSS? HE is the great fulfiller, the restorer of all things!
He would be if he had done anything....

The Messiah is not the boss. Jews can never and will never worship the messiah if/when he/she comes.

Latuwr
Sep 17th, 2012, 10:01 PM
Hi Beatnik Bob,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

SHABBAT SHALOM!!!

Happy Day of the Great Shout!

Please, I just completed the attempt to sight the physical New Moon of the Seventh Month with 4 of my Brethren. 3 were in St. Louis; one was in Houston. One Brother sighted the New Moon here in St. Louis. The conditions were terrible, with little chance of seeing the New Moon. We called our Brother in Houston, and being clear in Texas, he confirmed the sighting of our one Brother right here in St. Louis. We proclaim it is ROSH Hashanah because we have seen the New Moon of the Seventh Month, and we have given each to his Brother a shout.

We do not depend upon the Jews to tell us when the holy days are come so why do you think that we would depend upon the Jews to show us the NAME of YAHVEH. If you Jews can no longer go out to physically sight the New Moon, why do you think that you can proclaim to any of us the true NAME of YAHWEH? Shame on you for hiding the NAME!

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Sep 19th, 2012, 9:35 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

ELOHIM is a family. ELOHIM is a unity of numerous Beings. This unity potentially emptied itself into the formed Adam when the breath of LIFE was breathed into his nostrils, and man became a living soul. ELOHIM is a spirit so the breath of LIFE is spirit. The created Adam is an image of ELOHIM. Adam and Eve were created as a unit so Eve did not initially have a separate existence from Adam. Eve was the backside of Adam, and she had no ability to direct him or communicate with him. She could see where Adam had been, and she could hear his speech, and Adam have no idea of her existence. This all changed when YAHWEH ELOHIM separated Eve from Adam. So, initially, Adam and Eve were one, then the one became two, and then the two were reunited again as one. Paul teaches that marriage is a picture of Messiah and HIS Body, the Church (Ephesians 5:30-32).

When YAHWEH ELOHIM emptied HIMSELF potentially into Adam and Eve (see Philippians 2:5-8), YAHWEH knew that the day would come when HE would be born as a man, and YAHWEH knew that this man would be the Messiah when HE HIMSELF should come in flesh.

YAHWEH ELOHIM is a multitude of Beings. We, the preexistent ONES, all agreed with YAHWEH to give up everything to become men and women. So, we are all ELOHIM under the NAME of YAHWEH.

YAHWEH is our identifying family NAME so to speak. We all go by YAHWEH ELOHIM! We are one Body with one Head, and as far as I can tell, HAYAH is our head (see Exodus 3:13-15), and this HAYAH is My Messiah Yahushua:

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Yahushua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Yahushua hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The Jews took up stones because they knew exactly who Yahushua was thereby proclaiming HIMSELF to be. In the Greek translation, it is: EGO EIMI!

Does anyone know how Abraham saw Messiah Yahushua's Day?

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Sep 20th, 2012, 9:23 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

When Messiah Yahushua encountered the Law, My Messiah chose LIFE and Blessing rather than Death and Cursing! Why did Messiah Yahushua succeed while all others have failed? Suffice it to say, Messiah succeeded because HE had very good FRIENDS and RELATIVES in high places. HE succeeded because HE was blessed to succeed. HE came from a strong family with a tradition of doing good!

What about you and me? Can we choose LIFE and succeed? Na, not really. We have already messed up, haven't we? Each of us through disobedience have chosen cursing and death for ourselves, and we must therefore each receive the wages for our sin, which is our physical death. Unless something happens, we will die in our sins, will we not?

Of course, Paul taught that it is possible that LIFE could be won through doing the whole Law in a physical sense (Galatians 5:3). After all, the Law itself promises LIFE for all those who obey the Law (Leviticus 18:5).

Now, I have already stated for the benefit of my Jewish acquaintances that I am a Gentile. Jews seek righteousness through doing the Law in a physical sense, and rightly so. Surely, when we keep the commandments of YAHWEH ELOHIM in a physical sense, we have righteousness. When we sin and transgress the commandments of YAHWEH in a physical sense, we have iniquity. Paul had this to say about the pursuit of righteousness:

Romans 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Notice above that two ways exist to receive or attain righteousness: By faith By works of the LawWhat is a work of the Law? A work of the Law is the completion of what the Law commands or requires in a physical sense. Example: The Law requires that the Sabbath Day be remembered to keep the Sabbath Day set apart. When this is accomplished each week, the Jew receives the righteousness that comes through fulfilling this work of the Law.

What exactly does Paul mean when he mentions that Gentiles receive righteousness that comes by faith? Ideas, Anyone?

Thanking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Sep 21st, 2012, 9:01 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

The Apostle Paul spake in this manner concerning the gift of righteousness:

Romans 5:17
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Yahushua Messiah.

Please notice that some, who receive the gracious gift of righteousness, these shall reign in life! What does that mean, and how exactly does that work? Christianity thinks that she has received this righteousness; yet, all Christians continue to physically die. Some reign in life, uh?

Adam gave to all of mankind the gift of physical death. My Messiah Yahushua likewise has given to all of mankind the possibility of the gift of continued or perpetual life (often translated as eternal life, see Romans 5:21). How many today believe in that gift? I know that I do, and most think that I am crazy!

Listen up, Folks! Moses exhorts all of us to choose LIFE, and we don't see anyone who have lived for the past 3500 years. Why? I submit that it is because no one really believes that we can fulfill the Law and have LIFE and live! So, Christians and Jews, what's the answer, must we all continue to physically die following the blind as they fall into their graves?

Christians, do you have a friend in a high place? Jews, how about you? Why do you all fail in believing in the possibility of remaining alive in your present life?

If the gift of righteousness results in the justification of life (see Romans 5:18-19), why is it that all who confess that they themselves have received this gift, why do they all continue to physically die? Answers, Anyone?

Thanking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

johnBeeone
Sep 21st, 2012, 9:23 AM
To say that this is christian fighting between each other is not true.

Fact is that there are none on here, these are competing something elses.


Yes indeed and you have been a witness here on so many thread topic we all posts here~ reason to another reasons and explanations and there are no bloodshed and killings happening...^_^ We Christians or People of GOD rather I say that on this medium of communication that we are all in a battle but not cyberwar they called or lawsuit libels to defend on but for me I think it is a Level of Spiritual Battle with-in us all of us...TO PROVED THAT There is Piece of Eternity in all of us and that is LOVE...

ABeginner
Sep 21st, 2012, 6:22 PM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

The Apostle Paul spake in this manner concerning the gift of righteousness:

Romans 5:17
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Yahushua Messiah.

Please notice that some, who receive the gracious gift of righteousness, these shall reign in life! What does that mean, and how exactly does that work? Christianity thinks that she has received this righteousness; yet, all Christians continue to physically die. Some reign in life, uh?

Adam gave to all of mankind the gift of physical death. My Messiah Yahushua likewise has given to all of mankind the possibility of the gift of continued or perpetual life (often translated as eternal life, see Romans 5:21). How many today believe in that gift? I know that I do, and most think that I am crazy!

Listen up, Folks! Moses exhorts all of us to choose LIFE, and we don't see anyone who have lived for the past 3500 years. Why? I submit that it is because no one really believes that we can fulfill the Law and have LIFE and live! So, Christians and Jews, what's the answer, must we all continue to physically die following the blind as they fall into their graves?

Christians, do you have a friend in a high place? Jews, how about you? Why do you all fail in believing in the possibility of remaining alive in your present life?

If the gift of righteousness results in the justification of life (see Romans 5:18-19), why is it that all who confess that they themselves have received this gift, why do they all continue to physically die? Answers, Anyone?

Thanking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Good post AB.

debonnaire
Sep 22nd, 2012, 3:02 AM
isten up, Folks! Moses exhorts all of us to choose LIFE, and we don't see anyone who have lived for the past 3500 years. Why? I submit that it is because no one really believes that we can fulfill the Law and have LIFE and live! So, Christians and Jews, what's the answer, must we all continue to physically die following the blind as they fall into their graves?

Christians, do you have a friend in a high place? Jews, how about you? Why do you all fail in believing in the possibility of remaining alive in your present life?

If the gift of righteousness results in the justification of life (see Romans 5:18-19), why is it that all who confess that they themselves have received this gift, why do they all continue to physically die? Answers, Anyone?



coz physical death will disappear at Jesus' second coming (at least for those who have eternal life in their spirit).
It is when He shall appear in power and glory that those beleivers will be changed (physically)
that is called the 1st resurrection (in a incorruptible and glorious) body.
If The Lord who is life and resurrection wanted you and all others who believe him to not die physically , the scriptures would not speak of this 1st resurrection.
The only ones who shall not see physical death , are the ones who shall remain in this mortal body when He shall appear , but it is not their choice.

Latuwr
Sep 23rd, 2012, 11:09 AM
Hi Debonnaire,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

This statement of yours is not true:

"If The Lord who is life and resurrection wanted you and all others who believe him to not die physically , the scriptures would not speak of this 1st resurrection."

My YAHWEH Yahushua Messiah had life in HIMSELF prior to HIS death, burial, and 3rd Day resurrection. Possessing LIFE, My Messiah would not have died physically if HE had not been murdered. HIS first century Believers also possessed LIFE in themselves. What this means is simply that they also would not die a physical death unless they like My Messiah would also suffer martyrdom. The first resurrection exists for all the murdered Believers of My Messiah Yahushua who were also martyred for their faith (see Revelation 6:9-11), and it also exists for all those who believed in Messiah and who did die a physical death prior to HIS coming in flesh (see Hebrews 11).

The Apostle Paul taught the Corinthians, and, in that teaching, Paul verifies that all Believers would not die a physical death. Consider:

1 Corinthians 15:51
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Notice the use of the 1st person plural with both verbs. If Paul was indicating only a future generation of Believers, btw to which I myself belong, Paul would not have used the 1st person plural. This use brings Paul and the Corinthians, to whom he was writing, into the discussion concerning those who would not sleep (those who would not die a physical death) and into the discussion concerning those who would be changed at the 1st resurrection.

If Paul was only referring to a future generation, no doubt, Paul would have used the 3rd person plural in speaking of this mystery.

However, there is nothing mysterious about some future Believer like yourself remaining alive until the CHANGE, that is, if the CHANGE should occur during the normal lifespan of a present day Christian. However, it is a great mystery if some of the Believers of Paul's remain yet alive today, right/wrong/maybe?

The reason why all Christians grow older and ultimately fall asleep is simply that they themselves do not possess the justification of LIFE in themselves.

If I am wrong in this assessment, then would you please be so kind to explain to me how you yourself possess the justification of LIFE presently (Romans 5:16-18), and, having this justification, how it works that you yourself would subsequently have any expectation of physically dying apart from martyrdom!

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

debonnaire
Sep 23rd, 2012, 1:36 PM
Jesus had to die , for the Holy Spirit could not come until His flesh and blood were given.
He did partake to flesh and blood to crush the devil and deliver all those who believe Him so they do not remain in the fear of death.

physical death is nothing really for someone who has eternal life.

I don't understand the importance of not dying physically.

Jesus said to Martha : “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25-26)

debonnaire believes this , and he also does not mind about a possible physical death, but one thing is sure that this life Jesus gave me , no one will take it from me even if i die, as long as I remain in His love.

About Paul , he likely did not know when Jesus will return/appear (at which generation) although he and the apostles knew the signs of times that will announce Jesus'return. There was no reason for him to not use the first person when he said these things.

It is clear that Paul did not believe in the immortality of the believer , this side of Jesus' 2nd return. He still had common sense to know that his body was decaying. IF he had not been martyred his body would have died one day or the other.

... we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the exceeding greatness of the power may be of God, and not from ourselves;
8 we are pressed on every side, yet not straitened; perplexed, yet not unto despair;
9 pursued, yet not forsaken; smitten down, yet not destroyed;
10 always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our body.
11 For we who live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13 But having the same spirit of faith, according to that which is written, I believed, and therefore did I speak; we also believe, and therefore also we speak;
14 knowing that he that raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also with Jesus, and shall present us with you.
15 For all things are for your sakes, that the grace, being multiplied through the many, may cause the thanksgiving to abound unto the glory of God.
16 Wherefore we faint not; but though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is for the moment, worketh for us more and more exceedingly an eternal weight of glory;
18 while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. [2 Cor 4]
1 For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.
2 For verily in this we groan, longing to be clothed upon with our habitation which is from heaven:
3 if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For indeed we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened; not for that we would be unclothed, but that we would be clothed upon, that what is mortal may be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit. [2 Cor 5]

Are you sure you undestand the difference between the outward man , and the inward man ?
For which of the two did Jesus came the 1st time ?

Latuwr
Sep 24th, 2012, 5:49 AM
Hi Debonnaire,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Do you address your comments and questions to me? If so, then grant me the courtesy of some form of salutation so that I might know that I am under obligation to give you answer. If not, then I will assume that you are addressing your comments and questions to the forum in general, and, therefore, I should properly wait to see if someone else should be moved to supply you with an answer.

Since right now we appear to be the only two writing on this thread, I will give answer, but please understand that it is my practice to ignore posts not addressed specifically to me.

Nothing begins without belief. Belief is the starting point. Should mortals not believe in the possibility of continued or perpetual life, then mortality shall never be overcome. My Messiah Yahushua was mortal. After all, did HE not die a physical death? What I have been specifically seeking for a number of years, is exactly how My Messiah overcame HIS mortality so that HE possessed LIFE in HIMSELF. I often refer to HIS possessed LIFE as LIFE NOW so that it is obvious to the reader that I am not seeking or exploring the Christian concept of eternal life after physical death.

When I write and say that I also possess LIFE NOW, I am not telling anyone that my physical body is not growing older; nor am I saying that my physical body never experiences any difficulties. Right now, I am overweight with all the complications that arise from obesity, and I realize that physically I am getting weaker as the years progress. These weaknesses exist so that ultimately they might graciously be overcome in order that I might learn the process of overcoming according to the will of ELOHIM. If I never learn to overcome my weaknesses or sins, how shall I ever overcome my mortality or physical death in this life?

These words speak of the process of achieving immortality in the flesh:

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love ELOHIM, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I have already admitted to everyone on this thread that I myself had a preexistence just like my Messiah Yahushua had a preexistence. I have also expressed to everyone that a battle plan against the power of death is contained in the Word of ELOHIM and specifically in the Law of Moses, and I have asserted that I did prior to the creation of Adam and Eve agree to be born as a mortal so that the purpose of ELOHIM might be made manifest to whomsoever might be looking.

I do not see how anyone can seriously claim to be conformed to the image of My Messiah Yahushua without in some fashion being enabled to follow in HIS footsteps and being enabled to engage in the work of HIS hands.

I fully understand that this evidence requires that my inner man undergo a process of enormous change. Without conversion the inner man is never changed. My Messiah Yahushua came to give LIFE to my inner man which wholly exists in HIM.

Justification is very important to the life of the inner man. This is why I requested of you that you might explain to me just exactly how ELOHIM has justified you yourself? If you were called, how were you also justified?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

tahn1000
Sep 24th, 2012, 7:10 AM
i find it almost ridiculous that anyone could think that sacrificing one man somehow absolves them of all sin, or any sin at all. christ was murdered by the jewish religious leaders, who chose to call it SACRIFICE even though human sacrifice was outlawed to them (abraham and his son).

remember this -

John 11(47) Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. (48) If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. (49) And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

(50) Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

(51) And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

(52) And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. (53) Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

THE JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS PLOTTED TO MURDER HIM. and to get around the outlawing of human sacrificing (in the time of abraham) they included a law to get around that and kill their prophets -

Yehareg ve'al ya'avor ("Let him be killed rather than transgress") refers to the religious "requirement" to give one's life rather than transgress a law. Although ordinarily one is permitted to transgress when a life is in danger, certain situations require one to give his or her life.

under this law was the demand for PUBLIC MARTYRDOM in order to preserve the "authority" of god. one is required to give his or her life to avoid desecrating God's name through the public transgression of His commandments. this was known as Chillul Hashem, which covered any act or behaviour deemed to cast shame or bring disrepute to the belief of god, any aspect of the torah's teachings, jewish law (Halukha) or the jewish community.

the obligation to refrain from Chillul Hashem one of the 613 Mitzvot (commandments). The source for this commandment is to be found in the Book of Leviticus: "And you shall not profane My holy name; but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel: I am the Lord who hallows you" - the Biblical Lev. 22:32 term meaning to bring dishonour or shame to God's name by an action or lack thereof. The desecration of God's name is considered the harshest violation of Jewish law, at least as far as heavenly forgiveness is concerned.

Therefore, if the transgressor is to be trialed before witnesses (witnesses in this case being like jurors, rather than any who might testify against the "accused"), and the sole purpose of the persecutor is to have the "accused" transgress halakha (the jewish body of laws) before these witnesses, the trial itself becomes a matter of yehareg v'al ya'avor. and the outcome may be considered inevitible.

debonnaire
Sep 24th, 2012, 1:48 PM
Hi Latuwr

sorry for my lack of courtesy.


When I write and say that I also possess LIFE NOW, I am not telling anyone that my physical body is not growing older , nor am I saying that my physical body never experiences any difficulties. ... These weaknesses exist so that ultimately they might graciously be overcome in order that I might learn the process of overcoming according to the will of ELOHIM. If I never learn to overcome my weaknesses or sins, how shall I ever overcome my mortality or physical death in this life?

We don't have to overcome our sins or weaknesses by our own. We go to Jesus who has overcome all things. The Word of God who has been made flesh for a while. When He was in the flesh , his spirit was undefiled and never had to unlearn things.
But still was tempted and by sufferings obtained for us a perfect salvation. Now we don't look at Jesus in the flesh only , but also as He is today , glorified and having all power and authority on earth and heavens.
How can we walk in his footsteps without the Eternal Spirit of God, the Sacred Breath of the Almighty , councelor and faithful witness of Jesus as He was and is eternally.

Thank you for your testimony regarding weaknesses.

I wonder if all weaknesses are "enemies" of God.
I rather think that our weaknesses also lead us nearer to Jesus. If we have faith believing the Word , we turn to Him who sits on the throne of grace (as Hebrews says)
All things work out to those who are called to bear the image of the Head of the new creation.
When i am empty and weak , spiritually and/or physically , I bow my head and pray , and God fills me with strength and peace , even physically i have newly strength. Weaknesses are just tools that can lead us nearer to Him.
Why should i torture myself with these things (to overcome physical death or weaknesses) , fixing my mind upon them ? It is not on these things or on any other achievement that my eyes are fixed.



I have already admitted to everyone on this thread that I myself had a preexistence just like my Messiah Yahushua had a preexistence. I have also expressed to everyone that a battle plan against the power of death is contained in the Word of ELOHIM and specifically in the Law of Moses, and I have asserted that I did prior to the creation of Adam and Eve agree to be born as a mortal so that the purpose of ELOHIM might be made manifest to whomsoever might be looking.

Strange belief. I don’t think that you or me are like the Word of God who became flesh.



I do not see how anyone can seriously claim to be conformed to the image of My Messiah Yahushua without in some fashion being enabled to follow in HIS footsteps and being enabled to engage in the work of HIS hands.
I fully understand that this evidence requires that my inner man undergo a process of enormous change. Without conversion the inner man is never changed. My Messiah Yahushua came to give LIFE to my inner man which wholly exists in HIM.

I beleive that the key is obedience to whatever He has said and shew us, whatever He shows and says to us today. God gives the Spirit and Life to whom obeys Him. God is patient towards us and waits for the good fruit. The good seed produces its fruit in its own time, without us knowing how, we just need to care about who we hear and how we hear.



Justification is very important to the life of the inner man. This is why I requested of you that you might explain to me just exactly how ELOHIM has justified you yourself? If you were called, how were you also justified?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

To answer you , I was justified when I believed the testimony of God about Jesus ( 1 John 5 :9-11 )
After reading the written testimonies of the gospel , not intellectually only , but inwardly from the heart. I was already convinced I was a sinner , and I was hungry & thirsty. It was all the work of the Holy Spirit , the Sacred Breath of God , and not mine. All the words of Jesus resonated deeply in my heart , and all things that was said of Him. I knew in my heart he was not only a prophet, but God who had come in the flesh. For several days , I could not think of anything else, and kept reading in my spare time the 4 gospels, then I had a vision in my heart that Jesus did paid for all my sins. That is when the heavy weight that I had vanished. I knew I was free , and that (for instance) I was not addict to alcohol anymore. I was as if I never had drank in all my life. I was a new creation. A few hours later , the Holy Spirit felt on me , and God became real.

Did we do anything to be justified , except believing what He says .
Do we do anything for sanctification , apart from obeying ( grounded in the faith delivered once for all , keeping on turning away from our selves) .
As for glorification , there is nothing we can do. We let another One taking care of that. If i'm not mistaken , there is no places in the scriptures that say to seek glorification.

Latuwr
Sep 25th, 2012, 4:49 AM
Hi Debonnaire,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

In the physical, my Mother's first name was Pauline, and in the spiritual or in the receiving (Kabbalistic sense), there is no person that I have learned more from than the Apostle Paul. Here is Paul's bottom line statement about justification:

Romans 2:13
13 For not the hearers of the law are just before ELOHIM, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Indeed, if I have become a doer of the Law, can I not bow the knee before ELOHIM, and rightly ask: Father, do I now have the right to LIFE before THEE? Is this not a great question to ask Father or Paul?

Admittedly, Paul also taught that there is none righteous or just before ELOHIM. We all have sinned, and we all fall short of the glory of ELOHIM, so how can we, sinners, become doers of the Law and be declared righteous or just?

In Paul's thinking, there exists two ways for any of us to become doers of the Law, and I have previously made mention of the two ways: By works of the Law By faithPlease, let us consider these two ways in connection with fulfilling some of what the Law commands or demands. The Law commands that all who have been defiled through coming in contact with the dead, the Law commands that these defiled unclean individuals become purified through the ritual of the Red Heifer (Numbers 19). In the physical or works of the Law way, I must seek out an actual physical Red Cow and participate in the slaughter of this Red Cow in any way lawful for me. The Law does say this about the slaughter of the Red Heifer:

Numbers 19:3
3 And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the priest, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face:

In the physical ritual, the one who kills the Red Heifer may also be a layman so I suppose that it is possible that I would be allowed to slaughter the Red Heifer if I had been trained in the proper Jewish way of slaughtering animals. If I am allowed to participate by killing the Red Heifer, then I have the righteousness that comes to me through completing a work of the Law, have I not?

Does there also exist a way of killing the Red Heifer that is by faith? Absolutely! Let's suppose that you and I come to believe that Yahushua is the Red Heifer, and let's suppose that you and I come to believe that we are among the ones who killed HIM. You know, the Apostle Peter did declare that Yahushua was killed by the hands of wicked (anomos, without Law) men:

Acts 2:23
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of ELOHIM, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Please understand right here that sinners killed Yahushua, and please understand that you and I have already admitted to each other that we are sinners.

Debonnaire, did your sin kill Yahushua?

This is a very difficult thing to admit, but once admitted, we now begin to enter into the wonderful way of justification by faith. You and I, simply because we were sinners, we are found to have participated in the fulfillment of the spiritual ritual of the Red Heifer purification that comes to us through the faith of Messiah Yahushua.

Before I saw that Yahushua was the Red Heifer, I did not fully realize that my sin killed HIM. I really did not know what my sin was accomplishing when I was engaged in sin (see Luke 23:34). Nonetheless, if I through my sin did participate in the spiritual fulfillment of the Law, that is, killing Yahushua, my spiritual Red Heifer, can I not rightly say I have become righteous or just through my sin? Absolutely! This is how the grace of ELOHIM brings justification to all men simply because all men are sinners who unknowingly participated in a spiritual ritual through the faith of Messiah Yahushua. This ritual is designed by ELOHIM to purify sinners from sin and death! All of this is bottom line Pauline teaching (see Galatians 2:15-17)! Are you blessed to receive it?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Sep 27th, 2012, 3:00 PM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom! Happy Fast!

The Day of Atonement is a very special day. Consider:

Leviticus 16:29-31
29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before YAHWEH.
31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

Notice that the activities of this day cleanses the sinner from all sins before YAHWEH. The process of cleansing involves personal affliction as well as the sacrifice of various animals whose blood is sprinkled in the Holiest. Confession was also made over a goat designated to be led into the wilderness in order to be destroyed.

This day is special because at no other time are deliberate sins cleansed through sacrifice and ritual as they are on this day. Indeed, under the Law there is no sacrifice for deliberate sins. Therefore, a conflict exists between what is allowed on this day and what is allowed on all other days. Under the Law, deliberate sinners must be killed (see Numbers 15:30-31).

So, how do I resolve this conflict? We are not cleansed from our sins through a substitutional sacrifice, and the events on the Day of Atonement proves this to be true. The removal of sins is detailed by a process outlined for us in this Law of Atonement, and that process does involve a number of things including these three: Personal suffering or affliction The shedding of our blood and the transformation that comes through the burning of our flesh And the complete separation and destruction away from us of the rebellious nature found in most of usNow, it has already been mentioned on this thread that obedience to ELOHIM can be learned through physical suffering. In dealing with our sinful flesh, what say you, do we all have need of self denial and personal affliction? If substitution is possible as most think, why the commandment for self denial? Furthermore, if substitution is possible, how are our sins removed by the shedding of the blood of someone else?:

Hebrews 9:22
22 And almost all things are by the law cleansed with blood; and without shedding of blood no deliverance happens.

Thinking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

calliope
Sep 29th, 2012, 10:46 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom! Happy Fast!

The Day of Atonement is a very special day. Consider:

Leviticus 16:29-31
29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before YAHWEH.
31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

Notice that the activities of this day cleanses the sinner from all sins before YAHWEH. The process of cleansing involves personal affliction as well as the sacrifice of various animals whose blood is sprinkled in the Holiest. Confession was also made over a goat designated to be led into the wilderness in order to be destroyed.

This day is special because at no other time are deliberate sins cleansed through sacrifice and ritual as they are on this day. Indeed, under the Law there is no sacrifice for deliberate sins. Therefore, a conflict exists between what is allowed on this day and what is allowed on all other days. Under the Law, deliberate sinners must be killed (see Numbers 15:30-31).

So, how do I resolve this conflict? We are not cleansed from our sins through a substitutional sacrifice, and the events on the Day of Atonement proves this to be true. The removal of sins is detailed by a process outlined for us in this Law of Atonement, and that process does involve a number of things including these three: Personal suffering or affliction The shedding of our blood and the transformation that comes through the burning of our flesh And the complete separation and destruction away from us of the rebellious nature found in most of usNow, it has already been mentioned on this thread that obedience to ELOHIM can be learned through physical suffering. In dealing with our sinful flesh, what say you, do we all have need of self denial and personal affliction? If substitution is possible as most think, why the commandment for self denial? Furthermore, if substitution is possible, how are our sins removed by the shedding of the blood of someone else?:

Hebrews 9:22
22 And almost all things are by the law cleansed with blood; and without shedding of blood no deliverance happens.

Thinking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr


I'm sorry Latuwr, I am not following your words with clarity here. Are you suggesting that on this one day of the year that people can kill an animal in order to be cleansed of sins they have done deliberately? Is there a difference between deliberate sins, and non-deliberate sins? Do they require the same purification rituals?

Do you actually do this?

Or are you suggesting that by causing ourselves affliction and suffering that this can be accomplished -- but that this must be accompanied by shedding our own blood and then burning our own flesh?

I'm sorry this is rather confusing to me.

As to your question -- that a substitute death may take place in place of our own...in order to be cleansed of sin by being washed in the blood from another's death....another person, as in human being? This is actually necessary? Or is it just an animal's death and bloodshed that accomplishes this?

And then, once we, an animal, or a substitute person gets killed, blood shed, and flesh burned, then we are deemed "pure" again? What does this purity bestow upon us?

Please forgive my ignorance. Just trying to keep up with the spiritual tradition that it seems that you are saying should be followed. As followers of Jesus (Yashua), right? Or are all humans subject to this Law?


Sorry, it's somewhat confusing to me.

Latuwr
Sep 29th, 2012, 10:59 AM
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

I am a Gentile who has fulfilled a whole lot of the Law of Moses through the faith of Messiah Yahushua. I have sacrificed Messiah Yahushua through my sin, and, as a result, I have have been granted a great gift of righteousness, far greater than any Jew could obtain should the physical Temple still exist or be rebuilt. My righteousness has exceeded the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, but I am not proud of this righteousness because this righteousness came to me because I murdered a righteous and completely innocent man, and not just a man, but a righteous man who also happens to have powerful friends and relatives in high places. I am guilty of HIS blood. What happens to me should the avenger of blood come looking for me seeking to exact HIS vengeance on me? Should I flee (see Numbers 35:11-12)? Is there a city of refuge established for me (see Luke 24:49)? Absolutely! Can I remain alive, if I abide in that city? I think so. The blood avenger has no power over me as long as I remain in my city of refuge. How about you, can you abide (John 15:5-6)? Can you remain, or is your life forfeit?

In Paul's day, when he taught concerning these things, especially when he taught folks that we receive righteousness through our sin, some exclaimed:

Hey, Paul, that's great, if we indeed receive righteousness through sin, since sin is so easy for us, then let's engage in sin all the more!

Paul's reply was swift and to the point:

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 ELOHIM forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Others heard Paul's teaching about grace coming through our sin, and they accused him of teaching folks that good comes through doing evil. Paul discusses that slander right here:

Romans 3:5-8
5 But if our unrighteousness (our sin) exhibits the righteousness of ELOHIM, what shall we say? Is ELOHIM unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 ELOHIM forbid: for then how shall ELOHIM judge the world?
7 For if the truth of ELOHIM hath more abounded through my lie (Paul's sin) unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Paul knew the truth concerning the grace of ELOHIM, and his teaching is true. I exhort and admonish all that are hearing this truth for the first time to take his teaching serious. Your life depends upon it.

Thanking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

calliope
Sep 29th, 2012, 11:12 AM
Paul knew the truth concerning the grace of ELOHIM, and his teaching is true. I exhort and admonish all that are hearing this truth for the first time to take his teaching serious. Your life depends upon it.



Hi again Latuwr. Still trying to follow along. This last statement seems to me to rather carry a threat with it. Am I mistaken? Because I don't understand what the biblical passages are saying about doing evil, or not doing evil, in order to be righteous. But in general, that we should all be taking these bible passages seriously, or our lives are endangered?


Does that only apply to those who follow the biblical writings of Paul?


And not to those of other faiths?


Or is this a warning to all humans?


Thank you again for tolerating my ignorance.

:angel:

tahn1000
Sep 29th, 2012, 5:35 PM
i wouldn't bother too much. he can't even quote what is written in the bible without adding his personal touches.

tahn1000
Sep 29th, 2012, 5:42 PM
romans is all about how the jewish religious leaders, as god's chosen, can make the rules but are above all laws. including circumcision.

Ro:3:1: What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Ro:3:2: Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Ro:3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Ro:3:29: Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Ro:3:30: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Ro:3:31: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

"YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW"... in christ's time it as the JESHURUN which established the law. in fact they ruled over every aspect of israelite life. the jeshurun, or the descendants of aaron (aka saducees) ruled over all other israelites, who were bound to them by the law of "god", effectively their chattel and slaves.

... "yea, we establish the law". the law of circumcision, imposed upon the israelites and those forcefully converted to god belief by the law of the saducees as a sign of their "commitement" to "god". but not so the saducees, as they created that law, and enforced it upon their "subjects", but DID NOT CIRCUMCISE THEMSELVES.

"uncircumcised through faith"...."do we then make void the law through faith?"....
"we establish the law."

the saducees did not circumcise themselves or each other, only those enslaved to them. so what is the purpose then, of circumcision IF IT IS DONE ONLY TO THOSE OVER WHOM THEY HAVE AUTHORITY? the only answer is as a mark of ENSLAVEMENT. they did it to DEMASCULATE males under their rule, to make them less than men. and so here lies the true and original purpose of circumcision.

calliope
Sep 29th, 2012, 5:55 PM
i wouldn't bother too much. he can't even quote what is written in the bible without adding his personal touches.


It seems to me that he is advocating murder for the sake of purifying someone of their perceived sins.


I've never understood how people can claim to be followers of Jesus, and then promote killing and harming in his name. I know that is the opposite of what he taught.


If this is not what his posts are suggesting, then I think it's important to explain anyway.

tahn1000
Sep 29th, 2012, 5:58 PM
well that's how it all started for chritianity, wasn't it? with the killing of christ? at least that is what is now believed.

calliope
Sep 29th, 2012, 6:16 PM
well that's how it all started for chritianity, wasn't it? with the killing of christ? at least that is what is now believed.


From my understanding, Jesus never taught that people should kill and murder to purify themselves of perceived sin. The first followers of Jesus were believers in his teachings.

If christians now believe that he taught that murder and killing is necessary to follow him, then that doesn't mesh with his words in the bible.

tahn1000
Sep 29th, 2012, 6:35 PM
it's not that he taught it, it's that he was murdered, supposedly because it was the will of god.

Beatnik Bob
Sep 29th, 2012, 8:20 PM
it's not that he taught it, it's that he was murdered, supposedly because it was the will of god.
According to the New Testament he wanted to die.
For your sins.

tahn1000
Sep 29th, 2012, 9:00 PM
no... according to the new testament the jewish religious leaders of herod's temple (ie the sanhedrin council) conspired to kill him.

Latuwr
Sep 30th, 2012, 6:57 AM
Hi Calliope,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Thank you for your questions and your seeking to understand.

The Law of Moses promises life to those who fulfill what the Law requires. The Law takes it for granted that we are going to make mistakes, and then the Law commands that we sacrifice animals when those mistakes are made. Sacrifice is only allowed if the mistakes were unintentional. When our mistakes are intentional, the Law does not allow for sacrifice. The intentional sinner must die for his or her sin.

So, is there no help for the deliberate sinner? My answer is, yes, there is help for the deliberate sinner, but under the Law this help comes only once a year on the Day of Atonement. The deliberate sinner can atone for his/her sin on that day.

Have you ever asked yourself, what is the purpose of animal sacrifice? Why would ELOHIM command animal sacrifice? What does animal sacrifice accomplish? None of us, neither Jew nor Gentile, can sacrifice today. Mankind has had no ability to offer animal sacrifice for 2000 years. Back during Temple days, when sacrifices could be offered, what good did they do? All, who offered animal sacrifice, they all died. None of them lived, and ever since the destruction of the 2nd Temple, all have continued to die. No one fulfills the Law and receives the promised LIFE.

Do you desire to live, Calliope? How long do you desire to live? I have written what I have written on this thread so that the readers can come to realize that while the physical fulfillment of the Law is important, it is through what lies behind the physical fulfillment that we can obtain life and live. I am speaking here of the hidden; I am speaking here of the spiritual. The physical hides the spiritual. The physical animals are shadows of My Messiah Yahushua, and they are also shadows of ourselves. If and when we can begin to see ourselves in animal sacrifice, then we have a real chance for life. My Messiah Yahushua said this about HIS death:

John 12:31-33
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Were all men and women drawn into the death of Messiah? Yes, we were! For what purpose? So that sinners could be put to death! Sacrifice is valid before ELOHIM only if he who brings and offers the sacrifice is the same as the sacrifice. Any other view of sacrifice is false. ELOHIM does not accept substitutional sacrifice, no matter whether that sacrifice be animal, human, or divine. If you offer sacrifices in a substitutional sense, you must die because you have no way of proving before ELOHIM that you, the sinner, have died. Original Christians taught that we all died with Messiah Yahushua, and then they sought to prove that death to be sincere and real. How does the sinner prove that the sinner has indeed died? The sinner must repent of his/her sins and begin to walk righteously. Can you begin to catch a glimpse of the real purpose of sacrifice?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

tahn1000
Sep 30th, 2012, 7:30 AM
christ himself outlawed animal sacrifices. if you genuinely believe him to be the son of god you are in serious trouble later for disobeying his law.

calliope
Sep 30th, 2012, 2:37 PM
Hi Calliope,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Thank you for your questions and your seeking to understand.

The Law of Moses promises life to those who fulfill what the Law requires. The Law takes it for granted that we are going to make mistakes, and then the Law commands that we sacrifice animals when those mistakes are made. Sacrifice is only allowed if the mistakes were unintentional. When our mistakes are intentional, the Law does not allow for sacrifice. The intentional sinner must die for his or her sin.

So, is there no help for the deliberate sinner? My answer is, yes, there is help for the deliberate sinner, but under the Law this help comes only once a year on the Day of Atonement. The deliberate sinner can atone for his/her sin on that day.

Have you ever asked yourself, what is the purpose of animal sacrifice? Why would ELOHIM command animal sacrifice? What does animal sacrifice accomplish? None of us, neither Jew nor Gentile, can sacrifice today. Mankind has had no ability to offer animal sacrifice for 2000 years. Back during Temple days, when sacrifices could be offered, what good did they do? All, who offered animal sacrifice, they all died. None of them lived, and ever since the destruction of the 2nd Temple, all have continued to die. No one fulfills the Law and receives the promised LIFE.

Do you desire to live, Calliope? How long do you desire to live? I have written what I have written on this thread so that the readers can come to realize that while the physical fulfillment of the Law is important, it is through what lies behind the physical fulfillment that we can obtain life and live. I am speaking here of the hidden; I am speaking here of the spiritual. The physical hides the spiritual. The physical animals are shadows of My Messiah Yahushua, and they are also shadows of ourselves. If and when we can begin to see ourselves in animal sacrifice, then we have a real chance for life. My Messiah Yahushua said this about HIS death:

John 12:31-33
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Were all men and women drawn into the death of Messiah? Yes, we were! For what purpose? So that sinners could be put to death! Sacrifice is valid before ELOHIM only if he who brings and offers the sacrifice is the same as the sacrifice. Any other view of sacrifice is false. ELOHIM does not accept substitutional sacrifice, no matter whether that sacrifice be animal, human, or divine. If you offer sacrifices in a substitutional sense, you must die because you have no way of proving before ELOHIM that you, the sinner, have died. Original Christians taught that we all died with Messiah Yahushua, and then they sought to prove that death to be sincere and real. How does the sinner prove that the sinner has indeed died? The sinner must repent of his/her sins and begin to walk righteously. Can you begin to catch a glimpse of the real purpose of sacrifice?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr


Hmmm....well, I clearly am not close to being as spiritually sophisticated as you are, in knowledge, wisdom and understanding.


I think that ultimately, the bible teachings revolve around a message of life -- that the purpose of life is to celebrate life, to celebrate spirit, and to respect all life, and the spirit that sparks that life.


There is a culture of death, that became present on earth, for whatever reasons, that I feel that the bible rejects. Often, I believe, people have confused this directive, through the myriad misreadings, mistranslations and altering of the text of the bible over the millenia, as being included as part of biblical dogma. Some deliberately so.


Anyway, that's the gist of it I think.


I think that you're right about telling us that Jesus's purpose here was to teach us a hidden and spiritual truth about life and death.


Otherwise, I'm rather un-knowledgable and inarticulate in the scholarship arena. And do need clarification at times, as per the confusion that I expressed earlier.


Thank you very much for taking the time to make a thoughtful response Latwur. Be Blessed! :angel:

Beatnik Bob
Sep 30th, 2012, 4:26 PM
no... according to the new testament the jewish religious leaders of herod's temple (ie the sanhedrin council) conspired to kill him.
....For your sins.

tahn1000
Sep 30th, 2012, 4:57 PM
no he was "sacrificed" for being a threat to the rule of the saducees

John 11(47) Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. (48) If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. (49) And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

(50) Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

(51) And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

(52) And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. (53) Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Yehareg ve'al ya'avor ("Let him be killed rather than transgress") refers to the religious "requirement" to give one's life rather than transgress a law. Although ordinarily one is permitted to transgress when a life is in danger, certain situations require one to give his or her life.

under this law was the demand for PUBLIC MARTYRDOM in order to preserve the "authority" of god. one is required to give his or her life to avoid desecrating God's name through the public transgression of His commandments. this was known as Chillul Hashem, which covered any act or behaviour deemed to cast shame or bring disrepute to the belief of god, any aspect of the torah's teachings, jewish law (Halukha) or the jewish community.

the obligation to refrain from Chillul Hashem one of the 613 Mitzvot (commandments). The source for this commandment is to be found in the Book of Leviticus: "And you shall not profane My holy name; but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel: I am the Lord who hallows you" - the Biblical Lev. 22:32 term meaning to bring dishonour or shame to God's name by an action or lack thereof. The desecration of God's name is considered the harshest violation of Jewish law, at least as far as heavenly forgiveness is concerned.

Therefore, if the transgressor is to be trialed before witnesses (witnesses in this case being like jurors, rather than any who might testify against the "accused"), and the sole purpose of the persecutor is to have the "accused" transgress halakha (the jewish body of laws) before these witnesses, the trial itself becomes a matter of yehareg v'al ya'avor. and the outcome may be considered inevitable.

Yehareg ve'al ya'avor . because of abraham's outlawing of HUMAN SACRIFICE, this was their "law" introduced to allow them to continue to murder their prophets "in the name of god".

Latuwr
Oct 1st, 2012, 8:03 PM
Hi Calliope,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
Tonight, I am spending the night with my 92 year old Father. Tomorrow morning, hopefully, we will be able to travel to our Feast site in order to assemble with several of my Brethren on the High Sabbath Day. We are assembling at a very special place, at a ranch in Missouri having an outstanding lodge in which to hold our holy convocation. Normally, I refrain from dropping names, but President Reagan slept in the same lodge in which I shall sleep for the remainder of the Feast of Tabernacles.
I am blessed by My Messiah Yahushua to have such marvelous accommodations this year. Often, I sleep in a tent in my back yard for the duration of the Feast. Thank you, Yahushua, and thank you, ImAHebrew, for your generous provision!
In a sincere way, Calliope, I wish you were keeping the Feast with us. I would love to sit in a room with you and discuss LIFE NOW with you. I must say that I do not think of myself as being above anyone that I encounter on the forums.
Hoping to write more later, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Beatnik Bob
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:04 AM
no he was "sacrificed" for being a threat to the rule of the saducees
.....To save you from your sins.

The "sacrificial lamb."

tahn1000
Oct 2nd, 2012, 4:05 PM
sorry but i'm not a saducee, so the Yehareg ve'al ya'avor wasn't for my sake.

Latuwr
Oct 9th, 2012, 9:00 AM
Hi Calliope,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

You wrote:

"There is a culture of death, that became present on earth, for whatever reasons, that I feel that the bible rejects."

I believe that HaSatan brought this culture to the earth when he/she told Eve the LIE, namely, that one could disobey ELOHIM and continue to live and not die (see Genesis 3:2-4). My Messiah Yahushua referred to this LIE in this passage:

John 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh the lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Notice that My Messiah states that HaSatan murdered someone from the Beginning. This is not in any manner a reference to the creation of man because man was created after ELOHIM created the Heaven and the Earth in the Beginning. Messiah is directly telling all of us by HIS words above that HaSatan obtained the power of death (see Hebrews 2:14) through the exercise of that power amongst the ELOHIM. The rebellion of HaSatan caused the unity of the ELOHIM to be destroyed, and because the oneness of the ELOHIM was shattered through HaSatan's rebellion and sin, it can be said that ELOHIM was murdered or did die through that sin.

Everything, that has occurred since that event, everything has taken place with the ultimate goal to restore what was lost and to reestablish the unity of the ELOHIM once again!

My Messiah Yahushua is the Leader or Commanding General in this great war of restoration.

Right now, all of mankind still believe that they can disobey ELOHIM and live. Their various beliefs accept physical death for themselves with the understanding that they will continue to live after they die or at some point they will be resurrected to life in a body once again after they die. So they all accept a culture of death as you have noticed, and not many right now understand that the Bible rejects this culture by really saying that it is possible for the sinners to repent, and through repentance to obtain the right to LIFE NOW!

Those that come to believe in the possibility of continued life in their present existence are a significant part of the restoration process. Remaining in your physical body is not easy, but, through the work of My Messiah Yahushua, we have been given a whole lot of help.

We were commanded to dwell in temporary dwelling places during the Feast of Tabernacles so that we grow to understand that our present physical bodies are indeed only temporary and not our permanent dwelling place. Learning how to remain in a temporary body is essential to understanding how to remain in our permanent bodies later on. We learn this lesson in this life through the additional spirit that is given to us upon repentance.

Thanking you in advance for your interest and any reply that you may be moved to make, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Oct 10th, 2012, 3:52 PM
Latuwr, you have given out wrong information,


We were commanded to dwell in temporary dwelling places during the Feast of Tabernacles so that we grow to understand that our present physical bodies are indeed only temporary and not our permanent dwelling place.

ofcourse this view of yours is based upon the theories of herbert armstrong who insisted his pews, up stakes and go on a holiday during the time of tabernacles - that is for his creed of which you are a part - however for The Ekklesia - this habit for the jews, ceased in 70ad and a believer now is well informed of the true nature of this feast - not of works but of the Spirit.
Ofcourse side stepping the perverted teachings of herbert armstong and his OT phobias of law with works and self effort we find the truth simply stated -


Colossians 2:16, "Let no
man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, etc etc...

in John 7 - JESUS ALREADY understood the law of feastdays for the jew - He did not need to teach on them why? everyone KNEW ALREADY what was expected.

Jesus was not imparting old knowledge but a New revelation for His ekklesia about living water.
This NEW ASPECT of HIS TEACHING HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO, with cutting down trees and having a holiday in a tent and singing songs and clapping hands.

this New advice was the divine Voice, telling His people HOW TO MATURE ON THE INSIDE as he matured as a Man and then upon Maturity BECOME A BEGOTTEN SON of God.

To sleep in a tent misses the whole point of John 7 and makes it only a carnal minded exercise as herbert armstrong was a carnal minded rapist.
To be so '' outside the cup'' with works works works - to make you better - has nothing to do with what the NT tabernacles feast is all about.
The outside of the cup doesnt need your works, but your inside needs to be quickened into the true reality of the scriptures as you are stuck under the law to the jew and have no grace or no favour.

you would do yourself a great favour if you made a concerted effort TO UNLEARN all teachings of herbert armstrong.

Latuwr
Oct 12th, 2012, 11:46 AM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

The Apostle Paul admonished the Saints and Brethren of Colosse in this manner:

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in a portion of a holyday, or of a new moon, or of a sabbath:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the Body (soma) of Messiah.

These verses clearly state that lawful, physical celebrations ordained by the Law are shadows of things to come. Notice that no one should be allowed to determine for others what should occur or take place on these days save for the Body of Messiah.

Now, you and I can argue about what these days really mean in a spiritual sense, that is, what they do shadow. There is nothing wrong with that, but you yourself by yourself are not the Body of Messiah, Lucy, and you have no authority by yourself to tell me that I should not keep these days in a physical sense, nor do you have the authority by yourself to tell me how they should be keep or how I should keep them. Such authority resides with the Body of Messiah!

Do you really believe that dwelling in booths ended with the destruction of the physical Temple in 70 AD? Do you really believe that the celebration of the Sabbath or New Moons or Holydays ended with the destruction of the Temple? If that be the case, then these celebrations are no longer shadows of coming things, and you yourself are behaving incorrectly today by attempting to teach me concerning their spiritual meaning. If these physical observances are no longer valid, then they no longer exist as shadows of things to come, do they? So, why in all the world would you presume to teach me concerning them?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Oct 12th, 2012, 2:55 PM
LATUWR.
we are not in agreement over your standards of mixing the OT law of Moses [ called the ministry of death] with the NT law of the Spirit of life and you do this on a regular basis.

you are so involved with the flesh work of ''the outside of the cup'' i.e. the works of man, you cannot see that THE SPIRIT OF LIFE has nothing to do with such works of the flesh and the ministry of death you love to peddle

you have been pursuaded to forsake the truth of the NT of grace and faith by the religious pervert herbert armstrong - he hynotised you so badly you still remain corrupted.

http://www.teachingtheword.org/articles_view.asp?articleid=66761&columnid=6091

stern warning: Anyone who teaches a return to any aspect of the Old Covenant has "trampled the Son of God underfoot" and "insulted the Spirit of grace." the Oldest OF Heresies


Many ex armstrongites KNOW THIS and confessed this HE DID NOT KNOW THE NT BIBLE - he twisted the verses - so many people have come out and spent hundreds of hours to prove him utterly and hopelessly wrong - but you still cling to his dead coat tails and suck up his puke.

actually i dont teach anyone - consider me like a bank teller - i give it out, now what you do with it is your business.

LATUWR
you are so fleshy and such a worker of the ministry of death and even when u celebrate your ''let me sleep in a tent'' week it is a ministry of death act and one of a Judaizer.

YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO TELL ME to believe the twisted version of the scriptures from a pervert WHO HAS BEEN JUDGED BY DEATH and his wages paid in full.

HERE IN LIES THE TRUTH of the matter.,
you accepted his teaching as gospel.

the body of Christ Latuwr does not consist of the teachings of herbert armstrong and your comments prove his perversions still remain IN you - as a worker of iniguity.

UMMMMM.
consider this as proof of the truth

If you consider the OT needs to be worked out for your salvation in a physical sense - how come YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY OVER your own household as all your household has been judged and destroyed and few remain in your authority as they have left and you remain as a pirrah to most family members.

the bible is clear here dear, saying.....
''If a man CANNOT MANAGE HIS OWN HOUSE, HIS SON, HIS WIFE HIS DAUGHTERS and their welfare correctly with love and passion - HOW ON EARTH PAL, can u manage the houseshold of God.''

a physical proof THEN - YOU ARE NOT THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD.

now you well may post in a prissy pious manner about the body of Christ dear chap and set tickets upon your belief as ''gospel'' but THE PROOF OF HIS BODY is the LOVE OF THE BRETHREN NOT calling your wife and SOME daughters a ''lilith''.

and scattering your family by your religious seeds of destruction.

so having MOCKED the word of the Lord - please dont expect LIFE NOW to florish within you - for the body of Christ is not a clone of herbert armstrong.

You may well know of LIFE NOW - but unfortunately THE PERVERT got in between you and the Lord and advised you to continue in your Judaizer ways leading ofcourse to the Ministry of death.

now ofcourse you can write your pious replys and try to worm your way out with quoting Herberts verses and the pros and cons - but consider this please - HERBERT IS DEAD.
HE taught you and he is dead - everything he did - you do, everything he believed you believe and HE IS DEAD.
HIS TESTIMONY IS -'' HERBERT ARMSTRONG DIED IN SIN'' .

ofcourse all religious founders of creeds and sects ALL PREACHED '' we have the truth = Latuwr - now they lie in their graves - having paid their wages of sin by death.
so now it is your turn

let me ask
what SIN DROVE YOUR FAMILY OUT THE DOORS OF YOUR HOME, SO BAD they are unable to stay in the same room as yourself and you call some of them ''lillith''.


the ministry od death you teach latuwr as BAD KARMA -

you have nothing to give to the body of Christ FOR LOVE that covers a multitude of sin DOES NOT EXIST IN YOUR HOME nor in yourself you love yourself more than others that is why you remain alone and forgotten.

your not a servant of agape love.

your whole life testimony is one of sin and destruction for yourself and those near but NOT DEAR to you and you cover it by silly religious beliefs that cannot exist in the body of Christ.
YOUR NOT A HOLY MAN TO BE ADMIRED but a fleshy man to be pitied and your lifes testimony prove the case.

-----------------------------
PS ADDED
I WAS RETHINKING OF YOUR PLIGHT Latuwr and the Lord said as clear as a bell '' while latuwr stands in the shadow - he does not stand in MY REALITY''


THEN I KNEW what is so wrong with your belief and proven by your life in testimony YOUR A SHADOW MAN AND NOT THE REAL MAN.
you dwell ONLY IN THE SHADOW and not in the REALITY OF HIS KINGDOM.
the whole NT counsels are not verses taken out of context one here another there - NO THE WHOLE NT understood correctly MAKE A NEW REALITY MAN because the shadow has gone.
i am so sorry for you latuwr while you remain a shadow man and a shallow man - a paper man without REALITY.
i DONT POST to gloat over your shadowland existence but to JULT you out of shadows
because here is a picture of your belief called ........

Abandoning the True Faith
''The New Testament's teaching, especially in the books of Galatians and Hebrews, is this: For the church to place itself in any way back under the ceremonial law is to abandon the true faith. Paul under divine inspiration declares it to be a false gospel, as we have seen in Galatians''
latuwr
U desperatly need to shed the ugly snakeskin of all unholy indoctrination from a pervert.

debonnaire
Oct 13th, 2012, 6:13 AM
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

The Apostle Paul admonished the Saints and Brethren of Colosse in this manner:

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in a portion of a holyday, or of a new moon, or of a sabbath:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the Body (soma) of Messiah.

These verses clearly state that lawful, physical celebrations ordained by the Law are shadows of things to come. Notice that no one should be allowed to determine for others what should occur or take place on these days save for the Body of Messiah.


Hi Latuwr

Your understanding is wrong.
This passage does not say that only the Body of Christ can judge such things. The passage says that no one can judge now about these things.

Christ has already came (we aren't in the shadows) , and has blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us (verse 14)

LucySmith
Oct 13th, 2012, 4:52 PM
The Standards of the Lord is not to create any groups as CESS -POOLS to SIN


but


groups of warrior BEACHHEADS able to stand against the wiles of the devil.





again please be reminded
- you dont stand before the Lord with your doctrine in your hand


you stand before the Lord with your FREEDOM CERTIFICATE by your life and your testimony.


''they over came satan by the blood of the Lamb, by their word of the testimony [ fruits of the spirit] and loving not their lives unto death [ they knew how to reverse the power of the adamic curse and give up their Matrix life.]''


************************************************** **************




ps...added

Ofcourse Jesus and His Disciples.... could of let sleeping dogs lie but were not prepared to let lying dogs sleep.

Latuwr
Oct 17th, 2012, 2:37 PM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"the bible is clear here dear, saying.....
''If a man CANNOT MANAGE HIS OWN HOUSE, HIS SON, HIS WIFE HIS DAUGHTERS and their welfare correctly with love and passion - HOW ON EARTH PAL, can u manage the houseshold of God.''

a physical proof THEN - YOU ARE NOT THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD."

Not at all! What that simply means, Lucy, is that I have done a lousy job when I was given the opportunity to manage. Since I admit that I have done a lousy job, why do you assert that I cannot be of the Household of ELOHIM? Why do you dispute my testimony when I no longer make any claim to being a shepherd over any Household of ELOHIM?

Lucy, consider David, a man after ELOHIM'S own heart. David commited adultery, and then he murdered Uriah in an attempt to cover his sin. Are you better than David, Lucy? Explain to me why you yourself should not die for your own sins as did David?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Oct 17th, 2012, 2:54 PM
Hi Debonnaire,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"Christ has already came (we aren't in the shadows) , and has blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us (verse 14)."

Your problem here, Debonnaire, is that the Apostle Paul uses the present tense when he states that the Sabbath and the Feasts and the New Moons are shadows of things yet to come. If we are living in the reality as you assert, what did Paul mean by telling all of us that these things are still shadows of coming things? Think about it!

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

calliope
Oct 17th, 2012, 3:09 PM
Hi Latuwr, I apologize that I was remiss in keeping up with this thread and following your replies to me on the necessity of death. Really, an individual's death is solely an issue between that person and God, don't you think? Not for the judgment of worldly humans, only God can know the true heart of a man.

I do appreciate that you honor and cherish your elders, spend time with them and spend time in close communication and interior reflection with Spirit. Keeping your holy days surely sustains you.

As for our time, I am more than positive that at some time in previous lives we must have indeed sat together in a room and spoke of things sacred and holy and guided by Spirit. :angel:

Stay safe and blessed, and be in peace.

LucySmith
Oct 17th, 2012, 4:11 PM
Latuwr
Yes you did do a LOUSY job managing [as publically recorded] your family all those years of bible study and church attendance etc did not seem to penetrate your carnal mind - on how to walk on the narrow way of Love joy and peace in the Holy Spirit.

So -now many years have passed - but still you walk unable to manage your family interests.
same old same old.... nothing changed.

Remember you recently suggested some ladies in your family were as liliths.
The responsibility of marriage and family raising before God - does not include so many years of mismanagement and destruction when you CLAIM you have all the answers to how we all should be saved by judaizing our belief.

if you did not claim to ''have the answers'' to a godly salvation, and had mismanaged your marriage and children is bad enough, but to claim '' my belief is the truth'' is laughtable.
ROTFL.

consider - you have always been ''the churched'' and the ''churched'' do know the ethics of NT marriage and its responsibilities - so dont plead ignorance and the ways of David as your excuses.

Perhaps the real truth is - you simply dont like women, and consider them as 2nd rated - so treat them accordingly AND SO you reap the karma of your sowing.

remember under your watch your assembly became another ''christian sect to be involved in abusing children'' as a news headline in a very long line of 'christain church abuses scams''

.
simply - you have nothing to say that is worth listening too.

LucySmith
Oct 18th, 2012, 2:32 AM
cont.
Latuwr, when you are tied down to the Ministry of death - it produces death and destruction. why?
You have opened the doorways to be more deceived.
If you look backwards to your plight, this assembly in your charge should have introducted the Kingdom of God into it but this did not happen for chaos and destruction invaded your house and family,
why?
Basically you followed a man who was a pervert, not only in the natural but in his bible beliefs - he perverted the gospel for his own ego + empire building and gain = most people now ofcourse know of his corrupted bible beliefs but you seem bonded to them with no hope of escape.

Your soul was bonded to this man as ''soul ties'' as he ordered you about and this pleased your ego, because you loved being dominated over by man, as you were incapable of making decissions.

When you ''bonded'' so greatly with this man's teaching, it allowed the spirit in him to transfer to you and then into others near to you - so that your assembly later became as corrupt as his own long after you have left his authority over you.

The ''soul bondages'' are not really known about - but the true fact is ''whom ye sit under you become as'' - WHY?= that spirit in them transfers to you - THAT IS WHY JESUS SAID ''FOLLOW ME'' and the REDEEMED will follow no others.
That does not mean, other redeemed believers cannot give out revelation/edification that will confirm the Lord's teaching and times and seasons to others about the narrow way and how to walk in it.
Jesus said we are to hate mother brother sister etc - NOT HATE THEM but hate any form of bondage they try to usurp over us that comes from the devil's carnal realm
Our alligence is only to The Saviour and never anyone else. We are to seek His face only.
So, as you assembled on your sabbath and observed someof the OT laws to the Jews - you invited in the perverse spirit of your teachers - immediately that spirit called your assembly ''home'' and unleashed its corruption upon your children [ the weekest links] and then proceeded to cause evil to run amok as you have advised upon your formum in many pages of confession.

The best thing to escape this cursed life testimony is to relook at your belief and then repent of it -+ stop ministering out from the ministry of death and reverse your mind that has been STOLEN FROM YOU by devils.

RATHER than an ssembly of victors you birthed out AN ASSEMBLY OF VICTIMS.
You were in charge of THE VICTIMS and under your watch, your beliefs allow the trappings of satan to manifest.

You have NOT learnt anything about your destructive ministry - and how much these weird beliefs harm others.

Latuwr
Oct 18th, 2012, 6:59 AM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

I firmly and unequivocally teach that the grace of ELOHIM comes to mankind so that each of us might learn to do that which is right and good in the sight of YAHWEH ELOHIM! Paul states it very clearly right here:

Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of ELOHIM that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great ELOHIM and our Saviour Yahushua Messiah;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

It is obvious to me that you despise me, and this is why I wrote to you and asked you about David. I did not speak of David to justify any actions of my own; rather, I wrote with the hope that you might be goaded to begin to explain to everyone why your traditional Christian concept of grace gives you a license to sin while King David was required to die for his sin. Even so, you have been around me long enough to know that it is not wise to give me direct answers to my questions when I am in my rebuke with all authority mode as I am today.

Consider the former slave in Numbers 15:28-36 who was delivered from Egypt and went about gathering up sticks on the Sabbath Day. You yourself open up your flower shop on the Sabbath Day, that is, if you are still in the florist business. You gather flowers and make arrangements and sell them to your customers on the Sabbath Day. Why would YAHWEH ELOHIM demand the life of a Sabbath Breaker in Numbers 15 and then do an about face and allow Dear Lucy to continue to live today in her deliberate Sabbath Breaking?

Is your god a respecter of persons, Lucy, or is your ELOHIM the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr
Oct 18th, 2012, 8:43 AM
Hi Calliope,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

I believe in my preexistence, and I believe in my incarnation, but any belief in reincarnation is false. It is likely that we did at one time sit in a room and discuss events and happenings and some very sacred things prior to the recreation of the earth detailed after Genesis 1:1 if you are also one of the foreknown ones (see Romans 8:29).

I have come to understand that the events and the experiences of my life have been given to me so that I might be able to understand what happened amongst the ELOHIM long ago. We all agreed to be incarnated as men and women so that we might be able to duplicate and restore our former glory as it was before the rebellion and sin of HaSatan. My Messiah Yahushua is the only begotten Son of YAHWEH ELOHIM because HE is, through HIS death, burial, and 3rd day resurrection, an exact copy of what we all were before our family and fellowship and peace was destroyed in our war with HaSatan and his demonic legions. The author of the Book of Hebrews refers to My Messiah Yahushua as an exact copy (see Hebrews 1:3), and so HE is! As far as I know, this process of duplication should never happen again.

All men and women are here on this earth to acquire a knowledge of good and evil. This knowledge is acquired through our experiences. We are allowed to experience both good and evil so that we will never be fooled in the future whether or not something is indeed good or evil. Being murdered is a bad thing, and in the resurrection, none of those who were murdered, none of them will ever be convinced that murder is a good thing. This principle applies to the whole of our experience in our lives. We are here to learn all about good and evil to be applied in our future existence together. Death is not our friend. Death is a mutual enemy!

So, in a round about way, our individual deaths are entwined. What you experience is important to me, and what I experience is important to you should we take the time to understand our common future together.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Oct 18th, 2012, 10:59 AM
latuwr.
the religion you have made up, is what i despise - and it is a personal belief, that makes you destroy others and cause chaos.
it has produced a nest of vipers and still is doing this in your family.

you have NO idea of the truth and the truth is not found in you for if it was - you would never have a testimony of destruction.

consider all sabbath keepers are dead not 1 is the image of Christ and are not part of the body of Christ.
you know nothing of grace nothing of transformation nothing of living waters - they are just words to you and not a reality.
consider IF THEY WERE NOT SIMPLY WORDS - your small assembly would not have produced victims.

your belief produced victims just as armstrongism produced victims.

now Latuwr,
quote all the OT u wish, try to conviince yourself you walk the narrow way into perfection - but remember this 1 thing ALL along your route - victims of evil lie.
Yes you may well seem pious on these forums, but being holy as He is holy brings life and joy in the holy spirit -
WHAT JOY
WHAT LIFE
do you give out - to those you profess are near and dear.

i laugh at your rebukes Latuwr, they are worthless for you could not even rebuke the evil that crashed into your assembly and has never left.

THE WISE actually know how to avoid evil, but you seem to attract it.

so much for your silly childish words that mean nothing as your life has NO divine authority at all.

when you try to work your way into salvation, by the ministry of death - you have voided the grace and faith of the Saviour - and so spit on His sacrifice.
The Grace that has been offered to me by The Saviour - you know nothing about.
Grace has been made void in Judaizers dont forget.

DONT FORGET LATUWR - your a stat and a human headline - of a sect that produced child abuse, as many do in your country.

consider this WHY DID YOU LEAD OTHERS into destruction rather than FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH AND BECOME VICTORIOUS.

rotten apples trees bear rotten fruit.

Latuwr
Oct 18th, 2012, 5:23 PM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"latuwr.
the religion you have made up, is what i despise - and it is a personal belief,"

I give thanks to my Heavenly Father for this your testimony. Finally, you have given testimony to the fact that my belief does not come from Mr. Armstrong. My belief is indeed very personal. I am a spy as you well know. It is my duty to bear witness to what I have seen and observed. I am very sorry if my witness does not meet with your approval, but your lack of approval does not void my testimony.

Grace, a gift of righteousness, was given to mankind through the work of My Messiah Yahushua. This righteousness is in fact a result of your sin. My Messiah Yahushua was willing to receive your sin into HIMSELF so that you might be declared as one who fulfills the Law of Sacrifice. You were given a gift of righteousness through HIS willingness to suffer and die for you. It was out of HIS love for all of us that we receive this grace through our sin. Having received grace, Lucy, shall you continue in your sin of Sabbath Breaking so that you gift of fulfilling the Law of Sacrifice might abound. ELOHIM forbid is what Paul had to say about you and your Sabbath Breaking:

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 ELOHIM forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Lucy, be confronted by your own sin! Why should you die in your own sin when you can repent and live? I know, Lucy, that it is hard to stand up for the truth, for Yahushua! Tell me, what would happen to the peace of your family if you told your daughter and your sons that they should remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy? What would your husband say if you told them that your shop should remain closed on the Sabbath Day? Please listen to what Messiah has said concerning your situation:

Mark 10:34-37
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

I know the value of these words, Lucy, and I have stood up in my family for My Messiah Yahushua. What about you, Lucy, have you loved My Messiah Yahushua more than your family? What prevents you then from remembering the Sabbath Day to keep it holy? Why continue in your sin so that grace may abound?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Oct 18th, 2012, 7:16 PM
Latuwr
it is a sad day to see you JUSTIFY your personal belief, and then justify yourself AGAINST your own flesh and blood.
everyone who reads about child abuses in religious sects wants to projectile vomit.
year in and year out we all read about sects like yours.

LucySmith
Oct 18th, 2012, 7:39 PM
Latuwr
it is a sad day to see you JUSTIFY your personal belief, and then justify yourself AGAINST your own flesh and blood.

how wicked is wicked.


everyone who reads about child abuses in religious sects wants to projectile vomit.
year in and year out we all read about sects like yours.

perhaps as you were worshipping your personalMessiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
you failed to hear the cries of your 5 daughters and their kin.



05-07-2003 02:41 PM#6




Rovivrus2


Registered User


Join Date: Jul 2002Posts: 88




So hateful......but why?

I will always hate child abuse!
I will continue to hate it with every excuse
I will not fall victim to this game
I will rise above the shame

I will always hate the lies
I will always despise his disguise
I will always hate betrayal
I will hate betrayal in the worst way

Don’t tell me he needs love
And that you can’t stand my hate
While you sit there and leave children’s souls
Out of the debate

If I have a "negative" perspective
For wanting to protect the kids
At least I’ll be doing something
That no one else did

Why, if he did it then
Over and over again
Do you continue to pretend
That this has come to an end?

What’s different now?
What, you think now, cuz it’s “out”
Please remember, and remember it well
He did not confess, he was asked to tell

I will not feel bad,
Or a single ounce of guilt
For being angry that we are cleaning up
All the blood he has spilt

I also hate inaction
Doing nothing, and standing still
He admitted to child molestation
And he doesn’t fit the bill?

C’mon you must be kidding
Or just too busy “forgiving”
Reminding me of our sinning
Let me guess, “It’s just all part of living”

You act as if I have what I came for
And I should quietly go
But you must have somehow and somewhere forgotten
That the full truth, still, has not been told.

R2
5-7-03 . lo ammi forum

LucySmith
Oct 18th, 2012, 8:36 PM
O
BTW - your ''personal belief'' is the same as armstrongism in many ways.
ofcourse it bears the same human malfunctions as your own offshoot with its seeds of destruction.

btw
isnt this daughter rovivrus,[poem quoted above] the same one you now labelled '' a lilith'' - a mythocal monster of evil.
ofcourse i could be wrong here.

ummm
the bible is clear saying - ''as a child is raised up, so they shall be''.

an evil monster - is the child the reflection of her parents?
something you would do well to consider.
after all Latuwr - your children are the ones who will chose your nursing home.


hahahah.

Latuwr
Oct 21st, 2012, 9:03 AM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"ummm
the bible is clear saying - ''as a child is raised up, so they shall be''."

Would you please be so kind to show me where in the bible you found this clear saying?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Oct 21st, 2012, 2:23 PM
Latuwr. Yes i am moved to reply - as it seems very odd you dont know of them.
begin Prov. 22 v 6

Direct your children onto the right path, and when they are older, they will not leave it.



i guess Latuwr - THIS MEANS TO BE ''GROUNDED IN THE TRUTH''
OFCOURSE if your parenting fails the truth test they see thru it as did the poster Rovivus.


''justice and truth'' lay in the street.


If I have a "negative" perspective
For wanting to protect the kids
At least I’ll be doing something
That no one else did


ummmm.

Join Date: Nov 2001Posts: 95
from loammi.com.



I commend anyone who remembers to remember the children.

It seems many people often forget that each child will one day be an adult, and we powerfully influence their lives anytime we interact with them.
My dad gave the example of the Church asking the kids questions during the new moon celebrations. And as one of those children, I must tell you that if it wasn’t for the new moon, there would not have been any focus on us.

And I have to be honest that during the new moons when we were questioned and all answering at once--I felt kind of like a robot.
Anyway, the sermons at church were so often over our heads and we were not interested nor engaged by hardly any of them growing up.
When I say we, I speak for myself and most of my siblings and my closest cousins.

You see, the treatment that the Church as a whole (not including my parents) is giving to those of us who have been abused by X is an extension and a perfect example of how children were regarded in our Church growing up.

I guess what I want to add to what you wrote was that not only should you talk to your children about Yah, you should talk to them about much more than that. If your conversations are limited to teaching them things that took you yourself 25-30 years to learn than they probably aren’t listening or understanding.

So things should be kept simple.
Also, your poem reminded me of “do as I say, not as I do”.

That pretty much wraps up Uncle X in a phrase.
When I think of my young cousins being gone, away in their “prison” I am reminded of a particular weekend of last year.

On a Friday night X’s children are required to stay home to observe the Sabbath, as we were all required to do.

Well one weekend after observing the Sabbath, X went out to a strip club with his buddy on a Saturday night.
Everyone found out about it, including his kids.
Now I know I have brought this up before, but I mention it for another reason this time.
We can all imagine how much X’s kids are confused about “right” and “wrong”. They have been told time and time again the “sin” it is to break the Sabbath, or to eat pepperoni. And they have a father who…….

Anyway, I could go on and on. You have very good ideas and I think you said you work with children. I would love to hear more. Finally I will ask a question to everyone reading that I ask often when I speak about children and when I write about them.
Take a look at your own family, are the children at the back of the line or at the front of the line when food is served to a large number of people?

How does your family regard children?

Peace,
Rovivrus


update
is rovivrus your new ''liliith'' who comes out of the backside of Adam in your opinion.

Latuwr
Oct 21st, 2012, 4:38 PM
Hi Lucy,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You should know full well that my earthly Father and Mother lived with me after my Mother suffered a stroke and they could no longer remain in the retirement center where they previously resided. While living with me, my Father had a lengthy stay in a hospital due to a intestinal bleed. During this stay, the care of my Mother fell heavily onto me. I can remember one evening where in the space of about 2 hours, I had to change her pull ups over and over again due to recurrent diarrhea and incontinence. Because of the stroke, my Mother had to relearn to walk. She learned to walk again, but without much strength. Prior to her death, she suffered from a urinary track infection. She was hospitalized, and then she entered a rehabilitation center in order to recover her strength. About a week before she died, she told me that she no longer had any desire to remain in the rehabilitation center. She told me that she wanted to come home or she wanted to go home to Jesus. She came home to my house on a Friday, and she died Saturday morning. I was blessed to fix her last meal according to her request. All she desired was some cornbread and milk, and she ate very little that last evening.

About six months after her death, my Father decided that he wanted to leave my home and go live with my brother, ABeginner, with whom he has lived ever since. My Father requires constant care. ABeginner and the person that you know as Uncle X are the primary care givers for our Father. They do the lion's share of the work. Just recently, I gave them a break by taking care of our Father at the Feast. After awaking in the morning, I would help him wash his face and comb his hair, and put his false teeth into his mouth, and give him his meds. His feet had to be washed every morning and evening, and a fungicidal cream applied to them and dried before his socks could be put on him. After taking care of his feet, I would fix breakfast for him, and then wait for his bowels to move. When they moved, I would wipe him and apply a disinfectant cream over his private parts and change his pull up if soiled. In the afternoon, I would fix his second meal of the day, and then get him ready for bed with everything as is required. ABeginner, Uncle X, and I willingly provide this care for our Father because we believe our Messiah Yahushua who has commanded that children should take care of their elderly parents. We are blessed to be able to provide that care, and consequently we have no plans to put our father in a nursing home.

You wrote:

"something you would do well to consider.
after all Latuwr - your children are the ones who will chose your nursing home.
hahahah."

If my children should make that choice concerning me, then they make that choice. Evenso, it is not a choice that ABeginner, Uncle X, and I have made for our mother and father to this point.

I am curious from your comment about nursing homes. Did you yourself put your mother or father in a nursing home before they died?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

LucySmith
Oct 21st, 2012, 4:46 PM
Latuwr
you are playing the childish game of .... ''i dont like your question so i go off on a tangent'' trick.

avoidance
head in the sand stuff~!
however
it is interesting to see the ''fruit'' of these people you mentioned produced.

an outlandish religious creed, a spin off of armstrongism, that produces sexual destruction to small children.

while you play games with verses and pious words - THE FRUITS of corruption are very apparent from your much publised forum of Lo ammi = ''not my people.''

LucySmith
Oct 21st, 2012, 11:04 PM
cont..Latuwr
it is very sad to see your father end up in such a revolting state of oozing corruption.
ofcourse many churched people end up in this same manner and die in sin, never understanding how to die to sin.
I remember Moses and Caleb and how these godly men, had all their facilities at 80yrs+ of age.
It is a shame so much church talk fails so badly to reproduce THE NARROW WAY out from sin and corruption.
you have my sympathy.

as for your question - my comment on ''nursing homes'' actually it was a joke.




my dad died 2 days after he stopped driving his car
my mother asked to go into the nursing home to be with others her age and have nurses to take are of her.
She did not want to be a burden to her children and was most considerate and lived for 6 yrs in a wonderfull home for the aged at great expense.
My parents were the churched - and lived on that premise.
MY parents were wonderfull and caring, and had repented from their sinning filthy rags like we all are to do, but, for the understanding they walked in had left their children extremely blessed in all manner of ways.
they had a most wonderfull life and travelled the world over 36 times and guests of foreign governments. They wanted for nothing, and greatly Blessed by the Lord.

LucySmith
Oct 22nd, 2012, 8:43 PM
Latuwr. a true statement says...

the ''sins of the fathers are visited upon the children to the 3 or 4th generation.''

SO!!! do i tell you this to be unkind or uncaring
no -
I am telling you something your'e missing big time.
------------------------------------------
it would do you good to re-read your descriptive post on the revolting plight of your father and his stay in the LAND OF DECAY
then go pay your old man a vist and watch him decay before your eyes for in him ye shall see your own ruin looming before you.
why?
SIN within allows the LAND OF DECAY to florish and bring forth the fruits of death.
The uncleaness is to be noted in his uncontrolled bowels and decaying feet.
[the feet are to bring GOODNEWS to all men,
the feet used to walk out of the wilderness by leaning upon the arm of the beloved.
King Asa had rotting feet and died]

The carnal mind of religious flesh, has not taken him into glory.
[Seeing you ''admire'' Caleb]
I noted Caleb the overcomer of OT FAME was not infected by unclean bowel movements, at the ripe old age of 80+
why?
because Caleb got wise TO TRUE SALVATION AND KNEW HOW TO have a different spirit - and remains as NO death cert. is recorded to his name, in the bible, when it is mentioned over all others in that whole wilderness generation. All are listed a ''having died'' by Caleb's name is omitted.


There is NO joy, peace nor rightesouness in the LAND OF DECAY - just rottenness and death.
The TRUE MAN remains sleeping and cannot say ''Arise in me,
Father. Swallow me up!”

your dad may well have been religious but he did NOT know how to escape corruption.
BTW
Denying cooking him bacon for breakfast - did not seem to stop his decay as it will not stop yours.
look and learn Latuwr
you both are unable to turn your faces away from your flesh - no matter how pious you wish others to see you

The lesson is rather simple latuwr - CHURCH WILL KILL YOU, their belief will kill you and your association with them will kill you.
you are representive of ''the christian church''.
it does not pay anyone to be ''churched'' they all die in sin.


but here is the truth for His Ekklesia..... those escapees from their corruption....

''To be as Christ is, so am I even now.
So Arise my soul and permeate and
every cell of my body.”

the land of Decay - is not very attractive.
-----------------------------------------------------------
opps an update


i had to face this situation myself - having old churched parents.
you have to pray and repent not from your own sin but from theirs too.
Latuwr
if we want LIFE NOW, there are ''conditions'' and one is hide nothing, no sweeping under the carpet but get on your face before the father and plead for His grace and mercy and give up that load of religious crap your into.
next updated

oH BTW - a comment in passing...

IF you are a living stone Latuwr - you are ''accountable' to me as i would be accountable to you because of the love of th brethren.
Each stone cares for the other - that is how i know your'e a rebel and very much outside the body of Christ .
you're a rebel because your'e a MIXTURE
The wonderfull fellowship of believers, makes them ''accountable'' to each other and NOT A LONE RANGER
WHO PLEASE THEIR OWN EGO.