A Test?

[rapture]

People have always wondered about the validity of Sodom and Gomorrah.
I'm sure by now many of us have heard the story of how God destroyed the twin cities for the wickedness done by the inhabitants thereof.
And here lately, both believers, unbelievers, and make believers have questioned whether the total destruction was fact or fiction?
The story can be found in the Holy Bible as well as other text/religions for those of you who are not familar with it.

But have you ever considered that the world does not have to wonder if the story was fact or fiction? How easy is it to committ the same sins as sodom and Gohmorrah?

Therefore not only testing the validity of the story but likewise the character of God and whether he is unchanging in his ways?

However, the only way the story can be tested, is if
Satan, a intelligent yet fiendish power, through reasoning, can get humans to doubt the story.

[Agroblade]

No, it's probably not true in the sense there was a totally evil city in the ancient world. But that doesn't change the basic lesson that you get what you deserve. I've seen some discovery chanel stuff about how there might have been a real place called Sodom (on the edge of the dead sea) but that doesn't mean they were all evil. The point of the biblical story is to show that entire city/states that ignore god's rule's (the ten commandments) is libel to piss off god. I don't think there was a literal "den of evil" at Sodom or Gomorrah. But you shouldn't create a system that has no morals either.

[Keeblergiant]

I believe the cities existed and suffered some form of demise, but I believe it to be a natural demise and not the work of God. What would I vote for that?

[DontBeAfraid]

Total fiction..... And just because we can act in ways that were enumerated in a story book in no way tests/proves anything in the story book happened.

I can scream at a golf ball but that doesnt mean Happy Gilmore was non-fiction.

[Defiant Noquisi]

There are many (too numerous to mention) websites citing that these cities existed but they are all christian. I did find some non-christian websites that have theories as to why, if they did exist they dont anymore.

http://www.archaeology.org/9607/newsbriefs/sodom.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/sodom_gomorrah_01.shtml

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~pm9k/Writings/sodom.html

[rapture]

America would be a good choice for this experiment for the following reasons:

It blares to the world it is Christian and ONE NATION under God
It labels itself Super Power Of The world( The very best Earth has got?)
It doubts then breaks every commandment the Bible ever wrote
Satan is very well pleased with the "willful" disobedience

From Genesis to Revelations the penalty of sin is death" Satan may be depraved yet diabolic with knowledge, does comprehend the Bible, and knows how to play a hand.


See the parallism betwixt the twin towers and the twin cities? Except, the twin towers was a warning on a smaller scale. God doesn't have to rain fire no more..humans got more nukes than heaven.... :eek: if America is destroyed for rebellion against the God it claimed to worship- those who remain will no the Bible is legit and God is Holy

[MoonlapseV]

*blank stare*......

:crtmn:

[playmaker88]

See the parallism betwixt the twin towers and the twin cities?

See the parallelism between David Blaine and Harry Potter?
The similarities between World war II and the battle for Middle-Earth?


I wish you people would stop clutching at straws and using the remnants as proof. Are you in anyway insinuating that all the victims of this terrorist attrocity were evil people?

If America is destroyed, those who remain will be none the wiser about God and existance than they are now.

[Doomer]

People have always wondered about the validity of Sodom and Gomorrah.
I'm sure by now many of us have heard the story of how God destroyed the twin cities for the wickedness done by the inhabitants thereof.
And here lately, both believers, unbelievers, and make believers have questioned whether the total destruction was fact or fiction?
The story can be found in the Holy Bible as well as other text/religions for those of you who are not familar with it.

But have you ever considered that the world does not have to wonder if the story was fact or fiction? How easy is it to committ the same sins as sodom and Gohmorrah?

Therefore not only testing the validity of the story but likewise the character of God and whether he is unchanging in his ways?

However, the only way the story can be tested, is if
Satan, a intelligent yet fiendish power, through reasoning, can get humans to doubt the story.
If it were true, Detroit would not exist today.

[Skippy]

Sodom and Gomorrah happened, archaelogy has proven that. Folklore is what attributed the lesson of God to it. Call it ancient urban legend if you must, but when you understand that the Old Testament was oral tradition for all but the last 2500 years, it becomes easy to see how a family/tribal history got filled with all kinds of applied meanings. How many non-religious people here are superstitious, or believe in horoscopes, or see omens in their breakfast cereal. Now apply your own experiences, or those of your children to a bunch of people who lived a long time ago.

[DontBeAfraid]

Please provide a link to the proof.... The closest thing I found was a religious site with pictures of a desert populated by a few stone formations that they claimed were remnants of the cities..... But if you have proof let me see it please.

[RavenWhitefang]

If there were cities named Sodom and Gomorrah, then we will have to wait and see what the archaeologists dig up. We have seen that they can find possibilities out of myth when they discovered the city of Troy. It's simply a matter of religious implications, should the find of these cities arise in the future. The religious zealots will go nuts falling over themselves trying to say "See, We Were Right!". The bible is not the number one source of information on 2000 year old civilization as it has already been proven that it was a collection of stories from much earlier belief systems, but alas like much of everything that is contained within, its all the christian/muslim/jewish based religions that will claim it as theirs wrongfully.

[Skippy]

Please provide a link to the proof.... The closest thing I found was a religious site with pictures of a desert populated by a few stone formations that they claimed were remnants of the cities..... But if you have proof let me see it please.


Link? Ha...can't provide a link because this is from a book! I'll try to dig up some evidence for this, but I do suggest that people read the Bible as History by Werner Keller.

[DontBeAfraid]

Im sure that if its true you can find something in encarta or some other REPUTABLE source....

The bible is not history.

[Skippy]

Im sure that if its true you can find something in encarta or some other REPUTABLE source....

The bible is not history.

Oh? Basically what you are saying to me is that if it isn't on the internet then it can't be true. The whole point of the book that I mentioned was to establish that what is written in the bible has some basis in truth. Emmanuel Velikovsky did a lot of the same things in Worlds in Collision. The more you study it, the more it comes out as being true in essence. But, let's use something as an example. American Thanksgiving....is the story that circulates as folklore historically accurate? No, not completely, by your logic then the story of the American Thanksgiving is not true at all because it is slanted a bit to give favour to the Pilgrims.

You're starting to annoy me as much as DR does, your youth is showing with every utterance you make.

[Skippy]

A quick google search offers this: click ere (http://www.probe.org/docs/arch-ot.html)

It states:

Sodom and Gomorrah
The story of Sodom and Gomorrah has long been viewed as a legend. Critics assume that it was created to communicate moral principles. However, throughout the Bible this story is treated as a historical event. The Old Testament prophets refer to the destruction of Sodom on several occasions (Deut. 29:23, Isa. 13:19, Jer. 49:18), and these cities play a key role in the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles (Matt. 10:15, 2 Pet. 2:6 and Jude 1:7). What has archaeology found to establish the existence of these cities?

Archaeologists have searched the Dead Sea region for many years in search of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 14:3 gives their location as the Valley of Siddim known as the Salt Sea, another name for the Dead Sea. On the east side six wadies, or river valleys, flow into the Dead Sea. Along five of these wadies, ancient cities were discovered. The northern most is named Bab edh-Drha. In 1924, renowned archaeologist Dr. William Albright excavated at this site, searching for Sodom and Gomorrah. He discovered it to be a heavily fortified city. Although he connected this city with one of the biblical "Cities of the Plains," he could not find conclusive evidence to justify this assumption.

More digging was done in 1965, 1967, and 1973. The archaeologists discovered a 23-inch thick wall around the city, along with numerous houses and a large temple. Outside the city were huge grave sites where thousands of skeletons were unearthed. This revealed that the city had been well populated during the early Bronze Age, about the time Abraham would have lived.

Most intriguing was evidence that a massive fire had destroyed the city. It lay buried under a coating of ash several feet thick. A cemetery one kilometer outside the city contained charred remains of roofs, posts, and bricks turned red from heat.

Dr. Bryant Wood, in describing these charnel houses, stated that a fire began on the roofs of these buildings. Eventually the burning roof collapsed into the interior and spread inside the building. This was the case in every house they excavated. Such a massive fiery destruction would match the biblical account that the city was destroyed by fire that rained down from heaven. Wood states, "The evidence would suggest that this site of Bab edh-Drha is the biblical city of Sodom."{5}

Five cities of the plain are mentioned in Genesis 14: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zoar, and Zeboiim. Remnants of these other four cities are also found along the Dead Sea. Following a southward path from Bab edh-Drha there is the city called Numeria. Continuing south is the city called es-Safi. Further south are the ancient cities of Feifa and Khanazir. Studies at these cities revealed that they had been abandoned at the same time about 2450–2350 B.C. Many archaeologists believe if Bab ed-Drha is Sodom, Numeria is Gomorrah, and es-Safi is Zoar.

What fascinated the archaeologists is that these cities were covered in the same ash as Bab ed-Drha. Numeria, believed to be Gomorrah, had seven feet of ash in some places. In every one of the destroyed cities ash deposits made the soil a spongy charcoal, making it impossible to rebuild. According to the Bible, four of the five cities were destroyed, leaving Lot to flee to Zoar. Zoar was not destroyed by fire, but was abandoned during this period.

Although archaeologists are still disputing these findings, this is one discovery we will be hearing more about in years to come.

[DontBeAfraid]

Now find a reputable source that doesnt have a vested interest in slanting the truth one way or the other. An educational site for example.

Thanksgiving has nothing to do with this. There are DOCUMENTED conflicting stories of thanksgiving with some common ground. That gives it much more weight than just having one very slanted side of a story.....

I have a friend who is always bragging about how much sex he has. I dont beleive most of his stories as there is no corroborative(sp) evidence/testimony of his stories from sources that dont have a vested interest in making him look cool. Again this will go over your head Im sure.

on a side note:
You dont know me. You dont know how old I am. You dont seem to know what I beleive even though I have told you im agnostic. You dont know where I have been and you dont know what I know. Just as I know an equally small amount about you.

Try to discredit me via my age again and I will ignore you forever.... Or at least until I have forgotten why I ignored you in the first place.

[Skippy]

Fuck tidy quotes. I can tell how old you are by your behaviour. It is that of an arrogant teenager, who knows very little but claims to have all the answers. You debate not to exchange knowledge, but to feed your ego.

Thanksgiving has a lot to do with it because that only happened 400 years ago, the Bible was oral tradition for centuries, and if a story can get skewed in 300 years, imagine what it will be like in 3000.

You have friends that brag about sex? Who cares, but your lack of logic would have us believe that your friend has never had sex, not that he is lying about how much he gets.

Please return to ignoring me.

[DontBeAfraid]

Skippy, you post for the same reasons I do. You post with the same demeaner as me.

Skippy...... You are calling me a teenager because I watch sealab 2021 and I dont agree with you.

[DontBeAfraid]

edit- hmm.... I felt kinda bad.

Do you want to know my age? Who I am? I can PM you.

[RavenWhitefang]

Back to topic guys, take this to the PM's please.

[Hate_Republicrats]

God destroyed everyone in the cities, infants and children for the sins of the adults. You can keep that God, I have no use for him. If I thought that was right I would be a supporter pResident Bu$h.

[dutchie]

The story was concocted just to disencourage homosexuals from coming out. It's still used to frighten people of gays, my own dad used it to show me what "will happen" to you when you practice "sodomy". It's one of the pillars under the christian hatemongering towards gays.

I don't buy it. If you buy S&G, you'll have to buy Jonah, the parting of the Red Sea and Elijah's chariots of fire too. Either you believe the book, or you don't. Don't give me that selective crap..

[Defiant Noquisi]

Sodom and Gomorrah happened, archaelogy has proven that.If archeology has proven it then why does it not state so? I have provided links where they have been trying but have not proven the existence.

[RebornXmetalhead]

The story was concocted just to disencourage homosexuals from coming out. It's still used to frighten people of gays, my own dad used it to show me what "will happen" to you when you practice "sodomy". It's one of the pillars under the christian hatemongering towards gays.

I don't buy it. If you buy S&G, you'll have to buy Jonah, the parting of the Red Sea and Elijah's chariots of fire too. Either you believe the book, or you don't. Don't give me that selective crap..

Discouraging gays from coming out? Or discouraging homosexuality as a whole since God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve?

Parting of the Red Sea : I saw something on discovery that explained how it could have been possible. The red sea is kind of like a bay. And between the bay and the ocean is really shallow (well still very deep but shallow compared to the rest). Strong enough wind would blow the water which would reveal a path. If that wind is maintained, the water stays up. I don't know if you can picture it in your mind, but it all made sense. The dude even made a smaller model of it with a fan... pretty cool too.

Perhaps God was more active back then, and now He's slowly walking back as the world rejects Him. Which would explain how He would have dealt with Jonah...
God : Jonah go to Nineveh!
Jonah : NO! I hate them!
God : GO you son of a..
*sends a whale to carry Jonah all the way over there*
God : next time listen it'll be easier

hehe.. Elijah's chariot of fire... I know nothing about it, haven't read that yet.

[dutchie]

Discouraging gays from coming out? Or discouraging homosexuality as a whole since God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve?
Come on!! Are you one of those that still thinks homosexuality is a disease that should be rooted out? Homosexuality has existed since the dawn of time. Homophobia should be rooted out, especially the kind that shelters behind the scriptures. Intolerance is not the christian way to go, RXM. I'm as straight as a line, but I do have gay FRIENDS. Whatever makes them happy, it's fine by me. And as for God creating Adam and Eve... :Llol:


Parting of the Red Sea : I saw something on discovery that explained how it could have been possible. The red sea is kind of like a bay. And between the bay and the ocean is really shallow (well still very deep but shallow compared to the rest). Strong enough wind would blow the water which would reveal a path. If that wind is maintained, the water stays up. I don't know if you can picture it in your mind, but it all made sense. The dude even made a smaller model of it with a fan... pretty cool too.

So what you're saying it wasn't a miracle after all. It wasn't God's doing, it was just a strong gale blowing. Wonder what the almighty thinks of that...

Perhaps God was more active back then, and now He's slowly walking back as the world rejects Him. Which would explain how He would have dealt with Jonah...
God : Jonah go to Nineveh!
Jonah : NO! I hate them!
God : GO you son of a..
*sends a whale to carry Jonah all the way over there*
God : next time listen it'll be easier

OK, so you don't believe the parting of the Red Sea to be God's doing, but you do believe the Jonah tale? I rest my case about selectivity..

hehe.. Elijah's chariot of fire... I know nothing about it, haven't read that yet.
Well, as a Reborn Christian, you of all people should have read the Bible. I did.