Show Me a Great Thinker and I Will Show You a Servant of God!

[Godsgifttomankind]

The great thinkers through history have all been faithful believers in the one True God.

I was checking through the Book of Life recently and found the names of numerous great postulators including,

Pythagoras who did his studies during the time of Solomon
Hippocrates
Socrates
Plato

All these men shared a great bond their connection to the Great I AM.

His Faithful Servant

David.

[Keeblergiant]

No one you mentioned was Jewish/Christian/Muslim. In fact, Pythagoras even had his own religion centered around mathematics. Oh, thy one true God.

[Wednesday]

the jewish/christian god predates both the hebrew and christian faiths

if god is the creator spirit, then it makes sense that he would also communicate with the persons in this list

no matter how we misinterpret god, it would still be the same entity

[Edge]

the jewish/christian god predates both the hebrew and christian faiths

Assumption.


if god is the creator spirit, then it makes sense that he would also communicate with the persons in this list

No it doesn't. If this god was the creator spirit (another assumption) it does not mean that it would comunicate with its creations it does not mean that it would feel a desire or need to comunicate, interact or even pay attention to what it had made. In short thats another big assumption on your part right there.


no matter how we misinterpret god, it would still be the same entity

There are several assumptions with this statement. Below are several questions, whilst some may be exagerations, pointless and down right silly they are all possible to some extent. These questions however serve a purpose which is to demonstrate how weak the above statement as well as the original post and that of Wednesday's.

What if there are multiple different gods?

What if this reality is just a sevre case of schizophrenier in one being or in the collective minds of a single race that are linked by some form of genetic memory bank?

What if your making vague statements in an attempt to sound like a scholar or someone who is steeped in philosphy but has no real arguement to back up his loose ended statements apart from a bunch of cyclic arguements used frequently by people as young as twelve on the internet?

What if there are two seperate entities i.e. a god and a creator spirit?

What if no one here has a clue about what their discussing?

What if the idea of a all powerful immortal being was made up to begin with?

What if the previous statement could be proved/disproved beyond all doubt?

What if this is just another version of The Truman Show?

etc.

[Wednesday]

Assumption.

Fact.
the text that defines the christian faith is the bible

this text clearly states that god existed before anything else

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


No it doesn't.

thats why i said if, guess you missed that in your haste to be insulting

[40oz]

Unfortunately, that is just the way it is here. Get used to it Wednesday. This is a great site to read allot of interesting things. However, when ppl choose to voice their personal beliefs in GOD it is like wearing a bullseye on your back. Take my advice and don't give your self over to the frustration and headache that some of these morons will surly create. Been there, Done that.

[Wednesday]

ah dont worry about me, i just send em back to the books

im confident that the material can stand on its own

after all, god doesnt really need a promoter and im not don king

just read the book, kids

like the lady said...free your mind and the rest will follow

[Skippy]

Edge said.....

What if there are multiple different gods?

---then you would be a Hindu.


What if this reality is just a sevre case of schizophrenier in one being or in the collective minds of a single race that are linked by some form of genetic memory bank?

----then you would be a scientist from the 40s and 50s.



What if your making vague statements in an attempt to sound like a scholar or someone who is steeped in philosphy but has no real arguement to back up his loose ended statements apart from a bunch of cyclic arguements used frequently by people as young as twelve on the internet?

----then you would be any other person posting on AO


What if there are two seperate entities i.e. a god and a creator spirit?

---then you would be a Gnostic.


What if no one here has a clue about what their discussing?

---then you would be a typical internet poster.


What if the idea of a all powerful immortal being was made up to begin with?

---then you would be an Atheist.


What if the previous statement could be proved/disproved beyond all doubt?

---then you would be God.


What if this is just another version of The Truman Show?

---then you would know more than me because I haven't the faintest clue what the Truman Show is.


And Wednesday said....

"just read the book, kids"

That should be books. Do not limit yourself to only one book because then you will be as ignoarant as the person sitting beside you. The Christian Bible is not complete, it is only a primer for those who really seek the Truth. It's a great tome for those who would choose to lead their life as a sheeple taking direction for the next televangelist, but understadning the Christ message takes more than just flipping some pages looking for context to bolster an idea that popped into one's head.

A really good hint to observe is that any who rely on the Book of Revelations in interpreting the Christ message, or anyone even mentioning it, can be conned into believing anything you tell them. Let that be your litmus test.

[Wednesday]

A really good hint to observe is that any who rely on the Book of Revelations in interpreting the Christ message, or anyone even mentioning it, can be conned into believing anything you tell them. Let that be your litmus test.

what cult are you a part of? got a problem with the book of revelations?

spill it...lets hear your argument

[Keeblergiant]

the jewish/christian god predates both the hebrew and christian faiths

if god is the creator spirit, then it makes sense that he would also communicate with the persons in this list

If he communicated with them, don't you think that they would be inclined to believe in him? Yet they still weren't followers of Him. And why would it "make sense" that he would talk to them?


no matter how we misinterpret god, it would still be the same entity

Not at all. In fact, the bible says that we shouldn't worship false deities. If they are all same, then why would we need such a rule?

[Wednesday]

If he communicated with them, don't you think that they would be inclined to believe in him? Yet they still weren't followers of Him. And why would it "make sense" that he would talk to them?

i dont necessarily make that conclusion, coming into contact with this entity would be framed in the context of your personal understanding

whatever that happened to be, right or wrong


Not at all. In fact, the bible says that we shouldn't worship false deities. If they are all same, then why would we need such a rule?

agreed, there are plenty of false dieties

im only referring to the creator spirit

[Keeblergiant]

i dont necessarily make that conclusion, coming into contact with this entity would be framed in the context of your personal understanding


But you can make the conclusion that the Creator spoke to them?



agreed, there are plenty of false dieties

im only referring to the creator spirit

Then what does your statement that "no matter how we misinterpret god, it would still be the same entity" have to do with anything? They weren't believers in the Judeo-Christian God, so they would therefore worship a false deity. No misinterpetations there.

[Wednesday]

you seem to think that no one can have an experience that they dont "believe" in

what EXACTLY is your point?

that you are unable to have an experience outside the realm of your beliefs?

[Wednesday]

it also stands that humans are largely fearful of things they dont understand

this could explain why some ppl feel the need to control others and limit free discussion

to dismiss something simply because it is out of the realm of ones own experience, is the lowest form of ignorance

[Keeblergiant]

you seem to think that no one can have an experience that they dont "believe" in

That's exactly my point. The didn't share a great bond with Him, because they didn't even believe in him.

[Wednesday]

That's exactly my point. The didn't share a great bond with Him, because they didn't even believe in him.

i have no idea if they had a bond with him lol

i stated it was possible

you should try Ex-Lax

[Wednesday]

It's the internet oh bright one, how much more free of a medium do you think you deserve?

i recognize that youre trying to get my attention micky

so hello and whats your story?

are you irish?

[Skippy]

what cult are you a part of? got a problem with the book of revelations?

spill it...lets hear your argument

I don't have any problem with it per se, I think of it in the same terms as I would Dante's Inferno....period sci-fi/thriller material with as much basis in reality as anything David Cronenberg could produce.


Now let's see if you can give me its authority. Once you have shown me where Christ has given the Book of Revelations any authority, which you cannot. Then I will easily show you where you have erred. I have already done so.

[Wednesday]

i have zero interest in arguing with you guys

i dont care if you go to hell or not, hows that lol

however, there might be someone with a legitimate question and i MIGHT have an answer that they are looking for

youre obviously not looking for anything but a debate and well, im just not all that interested in you posers

its up for everyone to decide for themselves if they accept the text or not, im not here to debate that

i do have a fairly good knowledge of the text, and i seem to have a good memory when it comes to recalling it

ill continue to share that until they ban me

[Wednesday]

oh hell who am i kidding

youd have to put a bullet in my head to shut me up

[Wednesday]

haha thanks micky

[Skippy]

i have zero interest in arguing with you guys

i dont care if you go to hell or not, hows that lol

however, there might be someone with a legitimate question and i MIGHT have an answer that they are looking for

youre obviously not looking for anything but a debate and well, im just not all that interested in you posers

its up for everyone to decide for themselves if they accept the text or not, im not here to debate that

i do have a fairly good knowledge of the text, and i seem to have a good memory when it comes to recalling it

ill continue to share that until they ban me



Ergo, you cannot show where the Book of Revelations derives its authority. One can only assume that you believe in this work of imagination because someone standing on the other side of a pulpit told you to believe in it, in fact, fear it while passing around the collection plate.

Who exactly is the poser here? For someone who believes so strongly in the Book of Revelations, it should be very easy to demonstrate its authority since you have such a "fairly good" knowledge of the text.

Going to hell? Who? When? Where? Please explain to this poser where a benevolent God who is ALL FORGIVING condemns anyone to this place of mythology.

[Godsgifttomankind]

No it doesn't. If this god was the creator spirit (another assumption) it does not mean that it would comunicate with its creations it does not mean that it would feel a desire or need to comunicate, interact or even pay attention to what it had made. In short thats another big assumption on your part right there.

The existence of a creator can be proven using various means of logic, which I would be more than glad to do for you.
Anything that is created is created for a purpose, to fill a specific need.
When you understand the purpose of our creation then communication by and with the creator becomes clearly understood.


What if there are multiple different gods?

The understanding of multiple gods is something created by the imaginations of men and is the exact problem presented by every scriptural text that has ever been presented.


What if this reality is just a sevre case of schizophrenier in one being or in the collective minds of a single race that are linked by some form of genetic memory bank?

While your implecations could be argued with great logic and reason the question still remains what is the purpose?


What if your making vague statements in an attempt to sound like a scholar or someone who is steeped in philosphy but has no real arguement to back up his loose ended statements apart from a bunch of cyclic arguements used frequently by people as young as twelve on the internet?

The arguments that I present are very much cyclical in nature, for the very errors that you have been speaking of have been perpetrated against mankind so many times that you, nor I could ever attempt to count the number of times. It is human nature to separate themselves from others and believe that their understanding of the world is far superior to that of the people around them. It is through humility and listening that we all have the opportunity to come to a greater understanding of the world around us.


What if there are two seperate entities i.e. a god and a creator spirit?

There are many names given to God but wisdom, understanding and creation all come from one single source.


What if no one here has a clue about what their discussing?

It could be argued that all of us individually know very little about anything but it is places like this that people can meet to share their understandings and grow in their wisdom.


What if the idea of a all powerful immortal being was made up to begin with?

Time is the revealer of all Truth!


What if the previous statement could be proved/disproved beyond all doubt?

What is it that causes each one of us to search after the truth? The Truth can be found it is just a matter of each of us examining the evidence to come to the understanding. The world around us shows us that evidence exists to understand anything that has happened in the past and it is just a matter of time till the majority reaches a consencus of understanding. It is easy to believe in something that is understood by the majority but what about when clear evidence is given to you and the majority is agianst you, it takes real faith to stand up to the odds of such force. All the greatest thinkers have been placed in this position and proven their loyalty by staying true to what they understood even though everyone was willing to do away with them for their understandings.


What if this is just another version of The Truman Show?

The Truman Show could be used as just such an example of the masses trying to make someone believe, what in fact was not the reality of the world. On a grand scale there are people watching that know the truth and there are those that wish to impart their own understanding of the world, when it comes down to the truth it is each individuals responsibility to know and understand what the truth is for it is the truth that is the reward and the absence of it that promotes ignorance and darkness.

His Faithful Servant

David.

[Wednesday]

One can only assume that you believe in this work of imagination because someone standing on the other side of a pulpit told you to believe in it, in fact, fear it while passing around the collection plate.


very interesting, tell us more skippy

what exactly are you afraid of?

[Skippy]

very interesting, tell us more skippy

what exactly are you afraid of?

Who said I was afraid of anything. You are the one who quoted the Book of Revelations. You asked me to post an argument, and I did by posting a challenge to you. It seems like rather than prove your assertion, you have chosen to hide your lack of response with sillyness, and by calling others posers.

It's always quite easy for "born agains"to go around reciting their Sunday lessons, but it's quite another thing to actually understand them and their origins. The Book of Revelations is a perfect example of that. I have yet to see anyone who believes in that work be able to prove its authority any easier than they could prove the authority of 1984 as a religious prophecy.

[Wednesday]

i made no assertions skippy, i asked you to produce an argument which you failed to do

you started speaking about assumptions and fear and i asked you to tell your story

it seems you dont have one, so what do you want?

what EXACTLY is your point?

[Godsgifttomankind]

Ergo, you cannot show where the Book of Revelations derives its authority. One can only assume that you believe in this work of imagination because someone standing on the other side of a pulpit told you to believe in it, in fact, fear it while passing around the collection plate.

Being someone that believes in independent investigation of the Truth, I have to agree with the just of your statement. The Prophecies that are layed out in the Bible are not very well understood and are used in various devious methods but that does not disprove it's authority. The authority and understanding of these prophecies can only be understood when they have been fulfilled and the Truth of the matter has been revealed.


Who exactly is the poser here? For someone who believes so strongly in the Book of Revelations, it should be very easy to demonstrate its authority since you have such a "fairly good" knowledge of the text.

Understanding the Book of Revelation is not based upon "fairly good" knowledge but is based upon God given guidance. It is a gift given to those that are willing to listen, look and examine completely. Questioning at every point is just a given and should not be looked upon as being difficult.


Going to hell? Who? When? Where? Please explain to this poser where a benevolent God who is ALL FORGIVING condemns anyone to this place of mythology.

You are very correct about going to hell, hell is completely misunderstood by the majority of people for it is not a place that you go to but a place were you are at.
It is a place of ignorance and darkness, where people not realizing where they are at fight to remain there. When the bridge of understanding is crossed, then it is possible to see where you were and the price of your ignorance. It is not God's will that people stay in ignorance, only that people value the place were they end up. When you give something to someone they do not cherish it as much as when they have had to work to recieve it.

His Faithful Servant

David.

[Skippy]

i made no assertions skippy, i asked you to produce an argument which you failed to do

you started speaking about assumptions and fear and i asked you to tell your story

it seems you dont have one, so what do you want?

what EXACTLY is your point?

I give up...I have no point. Please continue quoting the Book of Revelations, and believing in it. Please make cheques payable to Skippy Ministries. I will assure you easy entrance into our university to learn written comprehension. Your Ritalin awaits you.

[Wednesday]

I give up...I have no point. Please continue quoting the Book of Revelations, and believing in it. Please make cheques payable to Skippy Ministries. I will assure you easy entrance into our university to learn written comprehension. Your Ritalin awaits you.

you never had a point, didja skippy lol

ok youve officially bored me to death

....next

[Skippy]

Being someone that believes in independent investigation of the Truth, I have to agree with the just of your statement. The Prophecies that are layed out in the Bible are not very well understood and are used in various devious methods but that does not disprove it's authority. The authority and understanding of these prophecies can only be understood when they have been fulfilled and the Truth of the matter has been revealed.

All the prophets were given authority in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, only one person was given authority by God; Jesus Christ. He in turn gave authority to share the Gospel.




Understanding the Book of Revelation is not based upon "fairly good" knowledge but is based upon God given guidance. It is a gift given to those that are willing to listen, look and examine completely. Questioning at every point is just a given and should not be looked upon as being difficult.

And, my question is very simply, where is the authority for the Book of Revelations? Christ did not give authority except for the sharing of the Gospel. Therefore, it is without authority, and is false. If anyone can show me otherwise, I would welcome it.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Skippy and thank-you for your reply,


All the prophets were given authority in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, only one person was given authority by God; Jesus Christ. He in turn gave authority to share the Gospel.

This is a very interesting point for how do we know who was given authority and who wrote a book that did not make it into the official Canon? The Old Testament is easily understood by those whose prophecies where fulfilled and those that were not. Thus Christ quoting from a book of prophecy or speaking of that prophet prophesing clearly showed the authority. Christ gave certain individuals the authority to spread the Gospel which included explaining the prophecies of the past and shedding light on the prophecies that Christ made.


And, my question is very simply, where is the authority for the Book of Revelations? Christ did not give authority except for the sharing of the Gospel. Therefore, it is without authority, and is false. If anyone can show me otherwise, I would welcome it.

The authority in this case as in all cases is the fulfillment of the prophecies and this I am willing to do in a new thread

His Faithful Servant

David.

[Keeblergiant]

The existence of a creator can be proven using various means of logic, which I would be more than glad to do for you.

Then please...logicisize me, captain.


Anything that is created is created for a purpose, to fill a specific need.

I see no way, WHATSOEVER, to justify this statement. Please, I need to hear why this is true.


When you understand the purpose of our creation then communication by and with the creator becomes clearly understood.

You're assuming we were created.

[Edge]

Fact.
the text that defines the christian faith is the bible

this text clearly states that god existed before anything else

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

thats why i said if, guess you missed that in your haste to be insulting

There is your assumption right there, in bold.

Insulting or revealing it is all up to the preception of the viewer and in this case it is no different. Reguradless the vagueness and weakness of your arguement still shines through as does that of David's and a large number of other posters on this site in general.

[Wednesday]

Reguradless the vagueness and weakness of your arguement


stop right there cowboy

what argument, i have no intention of arguing (by the way you misspelled argument, genius) and never stated any argument

so EXACTLY what the hell are you talking about?

you have another text that defines the christian faith?

lets SEE it, please

[Keeblergiant]

what argument, i have no intention of arguing (by the way you misspelled argument, genius) and never stated any argument

You've taken one side of the issue and he's taken the other, and you two are both trying to back up your position. It's an argument.

[Wednesday]

i have no interest in backing anything up, mainly because i just dont care what anyone else thinks

the only enlightenment that concerns me is my own lol

i would like to see this mysterious text he is referring to tho!!

[Skippy]

the only enlightenment that concerns me is my own lol

You've got a lot of work ahead of you. :)


i would like to see this mysterious text he is referring to tho!!

The current editions of the Holy Bible are not the only writings worth consideration in the study and practice of Christianity. The mysterious texts you allude to are not so mysterious nor difficult to examine. You have the internet you know.

There are the Gnostic Gospels, and you can learn about Gnosticism be reading about the
Early Christian Writings (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html), and learn more about the Nag Hammadi Scrolls (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html).

There is also what are commonly referred to as the Lost Books of the Bible (http://www.carm.org/lostbooks.htm).

And then you can move on to the texts that aren't listed here. You should also know the history of the version of the Bible that you are using considering there are a number of different translations floating about.

[Wednesday]

dont assume you know anything about me skippy, your assumptions make you a fool

i am familar with the texts you have mentioned, do you have anything else to add skippy?

or you just indulging in more verbose wanking?
you bore me

[Keeblergiant]

You've got a lot of work ahead of you. :)

And there's even more ahead of you :)

[Skippy]

dont assume you know anything about me skippy, your assumptions make you a fool


I make no assumptions, I just base my perceptions on your scatter-brained posts.



i am familar with the texts you have mentioned, do you have anything else to add skippy?

Then you must have forgotten about them when you claimed "Fact.
the text that defines the christian faith is the bible" or inquired "you have another text that defines the christian faith?" or stated "i would like to see this mysterious text he is referring to tho!!" So I guess all those other texts defining Christianity, as well as the writings of the Church Fathers completely fell off your radar.




or you just indulging in more verbose wanking?
you bore me

And yet you say, "to dismiss something simply because it is out of the realm of ones own experience, is the lowest form of ignorance"

That's okay, you don't worry your pretty little head about these complicated subjects. Run along to the mall where they have a big sale on baubles just for you.

[Wednesday]

im not into your cult skippy

go find someone who cant spot a fake

[Godsgifttomankind]

Well Gentlemen,

Let us have a good look at the Bible for the Bible is not really about Christianity as much as it is about the religion of God. The books of the Old Testament tell a history of the errors of men and what God has done to bring them back onto the straight and narrow path. The New testament is divinely inspired and is yet another attempt by God through Christ to return man onto the path of God. What is interesting about the New Testament is that it is all heresay, which as everyone knows does not hold much creadence in a court of law. Now we do have available to us a book that was revealed by God through his prophet and written down by his followers at the very moment that it was revealed to them. That book clarifies most of the misunderstandings that exist within the Christian community but just as the Jews do not recognize the authority of the New Testament the Christians do not recognize the authority of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an has so many explanations of the world around us, that learned scientist having read the verses are astonished to find a 1400 year old book that explains some of the most modern scientific understandings.

These same scientists recognizing the wisdom that is written in those words are shocked to find out that, the revealer of this book was illiterate.

[Edge]

stop right there cowboy

what argument, i have no intention of arguing (by the way you misspelled argument, genius) and never stated any argument

so EXACTLY what the hell are you talking about?

I have never been noted for my spelling abillities and in this case it is hardly a major cause for outcry as it is still understandable. This si b/c 1m nkot typing lik dis u dumazz.

And yes you did state an argument. An argument being a view or opinion stated in reference to a topic which can be debated.


you have another text that defines the christian faith?

lets SEE it, please

There are several books that have been written about the Christian faith just as there are books written about other religions.

What I was refering to is that text which you were quoting as evidence has by no means been proved and most definately cannot be taken as literal. That it itself has plagerised other religious texts and folk tales. Also that your arguement which assumed that it was true was flawed just as have been David's replies as they assume that not only does this god exist and that all that is written in the bible is true. His mind and evidently yours, is not seemingly open to the possibility that the Bible has been tampered with or that it is an entirely the work of fiction. Because of this your arguments contain within them various flaws.

David I'll reply to your post answer many of those questions which just examples of the many assumptions that were made - some of which were naturally rediculous but assumptions all the same.

[Keeblergiant]

Let us have a good look at the Bible for the Bible is not really about Christianity as much as it is about the religion of God.

Not just God...the Christian God.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Keeblergiant and thank-you for your reply,


Not just God...the Christian God.

The New Testament is clearly a Christian perspective of The God.

I would be more than glad to use the Bible to connect all the religions of the world to The God.

I am in the process of connecting the Book of Revelation and it's fulfillment to Islam and the Prophet Mohammed, in the thread entitled 'The Book of Revelation Fulfilled'.

If it is your desire to contend that the Bible is strictly a Christian Holy Book, it would give me no greater delight than to show you that it is in fact of greater birth than this!

[Keeblergiant]

So all of those false deities the bible warns about are actually God himself?

[DarkAce]

The christian God is essentially suppose to be the same God as the jews and muslims, also since they draw the conclusion that their is only one. Now since the OT deals clearly with the jewish perspective of God and is part of the bible, the statement of the bible being only a christian holy book would be false.

It wouldn't be hard to connect the bible to all the religions of the world since the authors of the bible have been influenced directly/indirectly by them when the bible was being conceived, not to mention what's blatantly borrowed for whatever reasons. It's not hard to realize the similarities between what's described in the bible and that of religions that predate it.
It's also a given that all religions have the same few similar traits that they follow, so again not a difficult task to show how the bible coincides with all the other religions.

Yeah Muhammad was supposed to be illiterate, but he didn't write anything, as the story goes the holy spirit/or the angel communicated through him and he dictated it to others. Which they kept as an oral tradition than later writting it down if I remember correctly.

What's astonishing is that no one has actually descibed what the perspectives of the God force/head that these great thinkers had. The ideas Plato and Aristotle (among others) had about God would be considered blasphemous by the monotheistic religions (depending on what period of time of course, as you would see looking back at history some of their ideas are later absorbed and expanded on in official dogma).

I understand that you keep trying to rantionalize that A, B, C, D, etc. are all essentially right in their assumptions of the God force, but it just isn't so. Some fundamental core beliefs are what seperates them and many contradict the other. Combined with that fact and we just don't really know. We also keep combining human elements to something that's suppose to be above human logic and understanding.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Keeblergiant and may we all be guided to a clearer understanding,


So all of those false deities the bible warns about are actually God himself?

The false deities that are spoken of and shown in the Bible are in fact items made by man and worshipped in the place of God. There is clearly no question that man is responsible for corrupting the word of God. The Bible clearly shows the worship of the one True God and condems anyone that worships men rather than God. Look at the example of what happened to Canaan for creating an idol of his grandfather and worshipping it.

Are there examples of this within Christianity?

[Godsgifttomankind]

It wouldn't be hard to connect the bible to all the religions of the world since the authors of the bible have been influenced directly/indirectly by them when the bible was being conceived, not to mention what's blatantly borrowed for whatever reasons. It's not hard to realize the similarities between what's described in the bible and that of religions that predate it.
It's also a given that all religions have the same few similar traits that they follow, so again not a difficult task to show how the bible coincides with all the other religions.

This is definitely a great starting point and my desire was to take it one step further than this and present evidence that the Bible speaks of these other religions or in the case of Islam, has prophecy that is fulfilled by Islam.


Yeah Muhammad was supposed to be illiterate, but he didn't write anything, as the story goes the holy spirit/or the angel communicated through him and he dictated it to others. Which they kept as an oral tradition than later writting it down if I remember correctly.

You are correct it that which you have said with only one minor modification.
The people did in fact write down the words on anything that was available to them at the time, which included leaves and the backbones of sheep.


What's astonishing is that no one has actually descibed what the perspectives of the God force/head that these great thinkers had. The ideas Plato and Aristotle (among others) had about God would be considered blasphemous by the monotheistic religions (depending on what period of time of course, as you would see looking back at history some of their ideas are later absorbed and expanded on in official dogma).

The divergent understandings speak greatly of the complexity of the subject at hand, the failure on the part of religious leaders to accept the words of these great thinkers reinforces common understanding of the needs of certain individuals to cling tenaciously to ignorance and turn their backs on anything that does not fit their scope of understanding. This is the repeated historical evidence of the Bible and the continued evolution of the thinking of men. It is clear by your statements that what is presented at an early date slowly becomes mainstream and newer ideas and understandings come up to challenge what at one time was challenging the mainstream of thought. Thus religion has evolved from an early form of sacrifice to the forms of understanding that are mainstream in this day. As a new form of religious understanding begins to take hold on the peoples of the world, we are faced with the conflict that occurs as the old ideologies fight to retain their standing but are slowly put to rest by modern examination and understanding.


I understand that you keep trying to rantionalize that A, B, C, D, etc. are all essentially right in their assumptions of the God force, but it just isn't so. Some fundamental core beliefs are what seperates them and many contradict the other. Combined with that fact and we just don't really know. We also keep combining human elements to something that's suppose to be above human logic and understanding.

This is a very astute though and what I will purpose is a clinical examination of C for the same could be done with each of the others in the same way to produce the same results. 'C' I am going to equate to Christianity, not because I have a grudge against the teachings of Christ or His followers; only for the reason that the people that I am conversing with live within Christian communities and can make sense of the examples that I present.
Within the Christian community there is a very diverse understanding of the teachings of Christ and yet logic will tell us that there can only be one correct answer to the question, therefore it is clear that out of this group some or many are presenting teachings that do not correctly present the teachings of Christ. This is not saying that they do not desire to teach the truth, only that for one reason or another they are presenting erroneous understandings.
It was common practice within many schools to beat children when they gave a wrong answer, while this practice has lessened over the years from an understanding that it does not produce the desired effects; the same can be said in regards to people in regards to religion. The interesting point that can be seen within Christianity is the movement from the loving teachings of Christ to a reflection of the tyrannical leadership within Judaism that Christ condemned.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Combined with that fact and we just don't really know. We also keep combining human elements to something that's suppose to be above human logic and understanding.

DarkAce, this was such a great point and I realized that I needed to reply to it.

When we look around at the world today, it is so vastly different then past times and we have available to us so many things that give us the opportunity to understand all of these questions and seek out answers. You have stated the problem so well in your final sentence and I would respond that the only way to eliminate erroneous human understanding is for God to present a clear answer for those that are truly seeking after the Truth.
This is what I believe the Bible is all about it is a repetitious history of the work that God has done to present a clear understanding to men, only to have men corrupt it with their own understandings. Noah came to the followers of Adam and presented to them a clear message and they refused to accept his message and died in their ignorance. Abraham came with the same clear message and tried to get people to understand but many again refused to accept and died in their ignorance. Has this clear message changed through time and given the examples does this mean that God will not act to provide the clarity for those that strive to understand?

When I study science I understand the consistency of everything around us from the laws of physical science to zoology and the same can be said when one studies the actions of God in the past. The natures of both God and man are totally predictable and can be clearly understood when you examine all of the facts.

Hinduism started out as a monotheistic religion but diverged into what we see today.

The religion of God by the forces of human entropy becomes a religion if disintegration and division rather than unity and oneness.

[DarkAce]

long paragraphs of words....

You seem to understand that religion + man (for the most part) = poop, but what I can't understand is the correlation between this and the praise for the Bible. You do realize the contradiction, no? God didn't all of a sudden write the entire Bible and hand it down to man and then man screwed it up...think you have that in the wrong order...

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello DarkAce and thank-you for your reply,


You seem to understand that religion + man (for the most part) = poop, but what I can't understand is the correlation between this and the praise for the Bible. You do realize the contradiction, no? God didn't all of a sudden write the entire Bible and hand it down to man and then man screwed it up...think you have that in the wrong order...

Is the Bible a fair and accurate representation of the teachings of Christ?

My answer is yes.

Does mainstream Christianity adhere and showforth the qualities presented by Christ?

My answer is absolutely not.

The correlation is that no matter what field of study you examine there are those that adhere to that field of thought but have never read the text. Their knowledge is limited to what they have been taught by someone else and they follow in their own ignorance. Wisdom is gained through study and understanding, an examination of the text from many different perspectives.

The Bible is a collection of many Books written over quite a long period of time, some parts have been altered from the original but the evidence that is needed to accurately measure our time and place is very much intact.