Where did we come from?

[MarybethMayfair]

Anybody have any theories on where we came from other than the old "God made us", and "We evolved"? Try this:
- Sometime far in the future, some one of us decides that he wants to find out how he got here. So he gets a group together and they get in their nifty little time maching and set it back to the beginning of the world. Wow, that's cool...we get to see how we get here, they think. So they get to the creation of Human beings, and hey! there aren't any! Meanwhile, they're getting bored, so guess what happens, a winner is created (aka a little baby) and they decide to stay and see why us humans weren't created when we said we were, and they find out all about how to live in this new place with real plants and animals, plus they lost their nifty time maching, and thus the Human race is created by people existing already, and the beginnings of ourselves is just as obscure.

[MoonlapseV]

wtf.
:drool:

[Strife]

MoonlapseV, have some respect for Marybeth. At least she made the effort to type down her thoughts to err...the best she could, I think. J/k.

Theres a few theories I have of humans being created.

1. Intelligent beings who either were created by a previous creator(s), created us. They must of done this either for experimental purposes, or spreading life across the universe.

2. This connects with above. Perhaps in the beginning when the first planet in the universe developed, there was some sort of thing or being, call it 'God' if you'd like, that manifested itself out of no where, 'poof'. On this planet I'll call 'Alpha', there were no other creatures besides the lonely being. After X number of years, some how it got to the point where this being was able to understand the flow or creation process of the universe. With this knowledge the being decided that it would create. From there, you figure how the story goes...

Bah, the universe one can't grasp! The closer you think you are to an answer, the more vast and farther the goal gets. Reminds me of the dreams I used to have as a kid trying to grab an object but it gets further everytime I reach for it.

[stringybeef]

Holy shit. What the fuck are you smokin??

[dutchie]

Shouldn't those sentences be switched in order?!?

[DontBeAfraid]

Speaking of.... whatever we are speaking of. They are making a hitchhikers guide to the galaxy movie. I saw a preview at Constantine.

[dutchie]

Cool!! Was it any good?!?

[MarybethMayfair]

My whole point was, in trying to find out where we came from, we ultimately create ourselves...the point wasn't that hard to get.

[TheWorldJoker]

Hey, I understood what you were talking about ;)

[Keeblergiant]

My whole point was, in trying to find out where we came from, we ultimately create ourselves...the point wasn't that hard to get.

It wasn't that hard to get. However, that still doesn't solve the problem of origins, because:

1) Time travel doesn't work like that.

2) All evidence says that we "evolved."

3) Your argument is logically invalid via ad infinitum arguments.

[MoonlapseV]

Remember, Evolution doesn't try to explain how we got here , rather it explains how we have changed over time since we have been here, so that theory is already out of here. I just saw that in the topic and i forgot to say something about it.

[MarybethMayfair]

It wasn't that hard to get. However, that still doesn't solve the problem of origins, because:

1) Time travel doesn't work like that.

2) All evidence says that we "evolved."

3) Your argument is logically invalid via ad infinitum arguments.

Well according to some people it doesn't, and it shouldn't, unless it should...which means it's supposed to happen...read Slaughterhouse-Five, and you'll learn about time and things that are supposed to happen.
Stupid.

[Keeblergiant]

Well according to some people it doesn't, and it shouldn't, unless it should...

It doesn't matter what people think it should act like...everything that we know now says it's impossible...unless physics gets overturned by a major theory, I'm going to have to stick with what we know.

[MarybethMayfair]

Well maybe physics is wrong. Maybe we've just been living one big lie, and someday we're going to find that out, and then we'll all be screwed because we trusted the lies that we didn't know were lies, right.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Marybeth,


Well maybe physics is wrong. Maybe we've just been living one big lie, and someday we're going to find that out, and then we'll all be screwed because we trusted the lies that we didn't know were lies, right.


This is a very interesting comment, there are basic laws of physical science that are clearly understood and yet our understanding of the world around us is continually evolving and that which we believed in the past has been supeseded by a greater understanding. The younger a person is the easier the transition in understanding and the longer a person or people retain one theory the harder it is to let go of that ideology in favour of something newer.

You presentation of time travel as the beginning is a very compelling idea and does have some interesting merits. We live in a world that is governed by time and yet when you examine time for a beginning it creates a contradiction in theories of understanding, for if what we see came in to existence at some point it had to come into existence from nothing and since all observations tell us that it is impossible to create something from nothing, then the only logical conclusion is that everything that we see has always existed in one form or another and that in fact there is no beginning and no end only a continuous series of cycles. When we examine this in comparison to everything that we know and understand about the world around us it is in keeping with the cycles that we see in the world.

Biblical scholars present an understanding of a newly created world which does not correspond to the physical evidence that exists and the current evolutionary understanding has challenges many of which are only slowly beginning to be understood. We are challenged to understand our true nature and existence and in time we will come to understand that we are spiritual beings have a physical experience and that which we see as death is in fact life and what we see as life is in fact death. These are relational understandings for without death we can not have life just as without evil we can not have good and without darkness we can not have light. This is not saying that light can not exist without darkness, it is saying that without darkness it is impossible for us to recognize light, we would see it but not recognize it for what it is.

The evidence in relation to our creator is clear and abundant but is only recognizable to those that are looking for it. Once you are aware and recognize it it is apparant as the noon day sun.

I welcome you to test me in any way that you desire on this matter.

[Keeblergiant]

Well maybe physics is wrong.

I guess you're right, maybe physics is wrong. Either that, or you're a freaking moron.


Maybe we've just been living one big lie, and someday we're going to find that out, and then we'll all be screwed because we trusted the lies that we didn't know were lies, right.

Yep, that's right. All of those experiments we do and our observations of the world that fit in perfectly with the predictions of physics are wrong. My bad. God damned laws of physics, IT WAS A GIANT LIE. GR relativity is wrong, spacetime doesn't warp and gravity doesn't exist. The 2nd law of thermodynamics is wrong, and that egg you just dropped on the ground has a very high probability of putting itself back together and flying back into your hand. Ahhhh, I CAN'T BELIEVE I DIDN'T SEE IT BEFORE!!!

[DontBeAfraid]

Dutchie Constantine was good and the hitchers guide movie also looked good.

[MarybethMayfair]

Yep, that's right. All of those experiments we do and our observations of the world that fit in perfectly with the predictions of physics are wrong. My bad. God damned laws of physics, IT WAS A GIANT LIE. GR relativity is wrong, spacetime doesn't warp and gravity doesn't exist. The 2nd law of thermodynamics is wrong, and that egg you just dropped on the ground has a very high probability of putting itself back together and flying back into your hand. Ahhhh, I CAN'T BELIEVE I DIDN'T SEE IT BEFORE!!!
You know, you're so convinced that everything is what it seems, and nothing is going to change, someday something unexpected is going to happen and you're not going to know what to do about it, because either you don't know how it works or you can't find out. I'm not saying that everything's a big lie, just some things. You probably have no idea what I'm talking about, that's why you make up things about eggs that come back together and crap like that.

[Strife]

"...unless physics gets overturned by a major theory"

What a coincidence I just found this, The Final Theory (http://www.thefinaltheory.com/pages/1/index.htm) .

Anyone ever heard or read this book? Seems interesting. I might add it onto my list.

[Strife]

Almost forgot, click the link damn it!!

[Keeblergiant]

you're so convinced that everything is what it seems

I know, how silly of me to believe what I see...


You probably have no idea what I'm talking about, that's why you make up things about eggs that come back together and crap like that.

You obviously didn't understand the joke I was making about the second law of thermodynamics being wrong...


"...unless physics gets overturned by a major theory"

What a coincidence I just found this, The Final Theory .

Oh my. Not this crap, again. Strife, please please please don't ever talk about this book again. It is such utter crap that it's unbelievable...there are countless refutations and accounts about how this book is wrong on the 'net, go look some of them up. It is obvious that the author of this book barely passes high school, non-calculus based physics, so he is in no position to be spouting of theories. Heck, if you read the book you quickly get the idea that he doesn't even understand what work is. I'm dissapointed in you for even bringing this shit up. Get off the computer, now.

[Strife]

Bah, I'm too lazy to look up any info myself. Thats enough information crammed in the skull for the day..


I'm dissapointed in you for even bringing this shit up. Get off the computer, now.

Aww, that brings satisfaction to my eyes! :Bott:

[Keeblergiant]

Aww, that brings satisfaction to my eyes! :Bott:

It's nice to know that you care :2fu:

[MarybethMayfair]

You obviously didn't understand the joke I was making about the second law of thermodynamics being wrong...
I understood it, just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean that I didn't get it.

[adroit]

Somone said somthing about the ark a while back sorry but i aint reading all of them again to find it.... but they actually found sea shells on top of mount everest that from the rock anylists dated around the right time the great flood happend...

[DontBeAfraid]

oh really? Why dont you go fetch me a link now?

[Keeblergiant]

There are sea shells on the top of Everest, but they have nothing to do with Noah's ark, and have been up there for alot longer than the human race has been around.

[LPF-Dude]

My whole point was, in trying to find out where we came from, we ultimately create ourselves...the point wasn't that hard to get.

We were created by the lord, he formed man from dust :scatter: , and from the rib of that man he formed woman.

They were known as adam and eve... :nerdo:

[LPF-Dude]

There are sea shells on the top of Everest, but they have nothing to do with Noah's ark, and have been up there for alot longer than the human race has been around.

Keebler, if not God, how did these shells get up on Mt. Everest?

The way I see, theres only one answer=The great flood.

There IS proof that a great flood took place, we are discussing some of it right now. :mhm:

[DontBeAfraid]

duh KG.... seashells..... that proves it. Thank god for magic bullets(pun intended)

[LPF-Dude]

It wasn't that hard to get. However, that still doesn't solve the problem of origins, because:

1) Time travel doesn't work like that.

2) All evidence says that we "evolved."

3) Your argument is logically invalid via ad infinitum arguments.

No Keebler, not all evidence say we evolved.

In fact, you evolutionists have yet to show me any proof at all, and dont go showing me your baboon skeletons your so proud of.

"Imagine a world without life, just gases, mud, rock, earth, and sky,But no life.
Evolutionists say this is what are world was, at the beggining, lifeless.
Then a little slug crawls out of a pond."

Ok, stop there.

Evolutionists claim that the first form that climbed out of the water eventually evolved into a human.

Its funny how you brilliant scientists cant see why this theory is bogus and craptards.

First of all, whatever crawled up, it was the first creature here, but how was it born.

All Bio-lifeforms have to have a mother, your suggestion that this creature just walked ashore from nowhere WITHOUT a God is God-D*** idiotic! and Insane! :crazy:

May I ask how this first lifeform was created? How was its D.N.A formed? How did it just "poof" into existance without god?

This is kind of like the question of the chicken and the egg.

There is NO way that something can come from nothing, there were no lifeforms, so where died the pupua, or larva of the first creature form?

Mammals have there children form IN the womb, and Non-mammals have theres form in eggs, but:

No MAMMAL creature could have been formed without a womb to form in.

No Non-mammal creature could have been made either! the eggs must be formed by a female mother, eggs cannot just "poof" into existance, my friend.



So what are you suggesting keebler? a rock f*cked another rock and made a slug?

Where did this first creature come from? How was its D.N.A created.

Mother nature CAN not create D.N.A, so where did the D.N.A for this first creature come from? And in what womb did the D.N.A build itself in? or what egg?

HOW was the first creature formed, keebler? :scatter:

HOW?

[Havoc Angel]

The first creature on this planet wasn't a slug, heh. In the beginning there were chemical compounds that formed amino acids, then came RNS and DNS, then single cell live forms, like bacterias, amoebas, some algae, those clustered together to form simple multicellular live, that became more algae, primitive jellyfishes, then some squid like stuff and slugs, then fish. There is proof that some fish called coelacanth (http://www.austmus.gov.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/coela.htm) that crawled on land and is said to be (one of) the ancestors of land dwelling animals, like amphibians, reptiles and dinosaurs. Somewhere in these early times the mammals evolved, too, changing scales to hair and had live progeny instead of laying the eggs. Things develop further, some dinosaurs become birds, the rest dies out, mammals start to dominate the globe and a short time later we have the internet.

So much for my short summary of the development of live. If you want to know more read some things about palaeontology, they're all over the web.

[Keeblergiant]

We were created by the lord, he formed man from dust , and from the rib of that man he formed woman.

Yep, that's why you're a carbon-based life form...because you came from the non-carbon elements in dirt. Gotcha. Damn, I hate it when logic doesn't work, don't you?




Keebler, if not God, how did these shells get up on Mt. Everest?

The way I see, theres only one answer=The great flood.

There IS proof that a great flood took place, we are discussing some of it right now.

No, dipwad. The seashells are there because the before Mount Everest formed into a mountain it was underwater. I'm going to go with my answer, seeing as how it is based on natural processes we know to exist, whereas yours is based on a God that has no proof.



No Keebler, not all evidence say we evolved.

In fact, you evolutionists have yet to show me any proof at all, and dont go showing me your baboon skeletons your so proud of.

Give me one bit of evidence and tell me how it's wrong. Come on, buddy. All of the posts you've posted so far show that you have no clue what you're talking about. Get a brain.



"Imagine a world without life, just gases, mud, rock, earth, and sky,But no life.
Evolutionists say this is what are world was, at the beggining, lifeless.
Then a little slug crawls out of a pond."

HAHAHAHA OH MY. Shut up now, before you make me look down upon the whole human race right now so much that I'll have to kill myself. There is no way a slug "crawled" our of "a pond." In fact, that goes against evolutionary theory, so arguing that it didn't happen just proves my point.




Evolutionists claim that the first form that climbed out of the water eventually evolved into a human.

Its funny how you brilliant scientists cant see why this theory is bogus and craptards.

No, I'm sure a brilliant scientist would laugh at your face for being such a freakin' dumbass and actually believing that that is what evolution claims.



First of all, whatever crawled up, it was the first creature here, but how was it born.

It was simple molecule that exhibited the properties of replication and heredity guided by simple chemical processes. No magic there.



All Bio-lifeforms have to have a mother, your suggestion that this creature just walked ashore from nowhere WITHOUT a God is God-D*** idiotic! and Insane!

So, who's the mother of your God?




May I ask how this first lifeform was created? How was its D.N.A formed? How did it just "poof" into existance without god?

The first life form was a self replicating molecule capable of acting like it's own enzyme, very much like RNA. All of the elements of RNA have been shown to form in prebiotic conditions when energy is applied to them. DNA eventually formed from RNA, and it didn't just "poof" into existence.






There is NO way that something can come from nothing, there were no lifeforms, so where died the pupua, or larva of the first creature form?

Why not? QFT depends on "something" coming from "nothing," and it's a very accurate description of the sub-atomic realm.



So what are you suggesting keebler? a rock f*cked another rock and made a slug?

Where did this first creature come from? How was its D.N.A created.

Mother nature CAN not create D.N.A, so where did the D.N.A for this first creature come from? And in what womb did the D.N.A build itself in? or what egg?

HOW was the first creature formed, keebler?

HOW?

I believe I've anwered all of these questions above. Now, for my question: How are you going to sit here and critique a proven scientific fact when you don't even understand the minimal basics of the theory? How did you get to be such a moron? HOW?

[MarybethMayfair]

We were created by the lord, he formed man from dust :scatter: , and from the rib of that man he formed woman.

They were known as adam and eve... :nerdo:
If you'll read my first post, you will see the words "other than the old God-Created-Us theory"...your quote would be a God-Created-Us theory...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Holy crap, this LPF-Dude is a colossal nimrod.
Some creationists like Vox at least have SOME understanding of evolution. LPF doesn't even have a CLUE! I'm amazed that he even knows how to use his computer to type this garbage. It's got to be a kid. I mean, no adult could be THAT stupid. Could they?

LPF-Dude, if you're reading this, do yourself a favor and stop posting ANYTHING related to evolution. I can't imagine you digging yourself into a deeper hole. I'm happy for you that you believe in God and everything, but your posts clearly indicate that you are nowhere NEAR capable of saying ANYTHING at all about evolution. Wow...

[smokejaguar]

Mankind was put thru the flesh because of what happened in the First Earth Age.Rather than destroy everone God chose to make man flesh, and give them a chance to come to God, and freely love him.Life on earth is a "passion play" few ppl realize their in.-usdi Agaluga

[Keeblergiant]

The Passions sucked...my life is much better.

[Assassin X]

I dont know you guys are smoking but i positive i came from my mother. :2thumbs:

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Keebler, if not God, how did these shells get up on Mt. Everest?
The way I see, theres only one answer=The great flood.
Saaaaaay, LPF, I've got some prime real estate in Florida that you might be interested in...
By the way - and I apologize in advance for the obvious and intelligent logic that I'm about to use here - do you have ANY idea how TALL Mt.Everest is? Do you have any idea HOW MUCH water would be needed to flood the ENTIRE earth up to the LEVEL of Mt.Everest? Where did such a COLOSSAL amount of water come from? And where did it go AFTER said flood? Oh, who cares? Proof is overrated. Blind leaps of faith will suffice.


I dont know you guys are smoking but i positive i came from my mother.
And the logical conclusion from this is that evolution is bogus? Yet another person who is too dense to comprehend the evidence that is staring them right in the face. I've got an idea, why don't you publish your "results" in ANY scientific periodical. Seeing as how your "theory" debunks evolution (and I'm amazed that nobody saw this before), this will surely revolutionize our understanding of the world around us. You'll be famous! By the way, are you interested in buying land in Florida too?