The Vietnam War.

[evilwill88]

Some americans have tried to tell me that they did not lose the Vietnam war.

I haven't really studied it but I do know a few things.

My summary of the war.....

The yanks got the S@#T! kicked out of them. They failed to stop the spread of communism into South Vietnam, and now the whole nation is communist.

Sounds like they failed to me....... :lol:

[lazserus]

Oh yea. We lost that war big time.

[Donsun]

I have seen some tv specials on this. President Johnson tied the hands of the military. He would not let them fight or hit targets that they wanted to hit. It is true we definitly underestimated our enemy,but I think we could have won if the pres. let the military do their job.







"But its not racist if their British"

[evilwill88]

I agree with that. The US definately had the ability to win the war.

But the politics got in the way.

[armageddononline]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>President Johnson tied the hands of the military. He would not let them fight or hit targets that they wanted to hit.[/quote] Jesus, you get things like Mai Lai with the military not able to do all it wanted? Perhaps they'd have to wanted to just blow every village off the map.

[Soloflecks]

We lost. We should never have been there at all. Whatever the real reason for that war, the domino theory was what was pushed publicly. It's painful to watch documentaries now which interview the old generals who have to say the theory was bunk. A lot of lives were wasted on another military wetdream.

[Donsun]

I am Not talking about burning villages. President johnson hnad picked the locations to be bombed and attacked. they just happen to be the same places. they could have taken out stragegic bridges and roads and cut of supply lines but Johnson would not listen to his military advisers. I watched a documentary on the tele about it. I think its funny how you can critizise the US military so much when england is responsable for some of the biggest atrocities in human history.

[evilwill88]

Don't forget the japanese in ww2!

[armageddononline]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think its funny how you can critizise the US military so much when england is responsable for some of the biggest atrocities in human history. [/quote] Hey don't take this personally. Where Britain has got these things wrong I don't deny them, but other country's mistakes don't justify your own.

The truth is that Vietnam was an immoral war fought in an immoral way.

[VegasRonin]

It wasn't fought immoral enough or we would've won.:cool:

[Donsun]

"Hey don't take this personally"



Your right did not mean to be angry, but your comment Made me a little mad. Will try to be more open minded.

[Kenneth Strong]

Guys you know you have to want to win a war in order to do so. The Vietnam conflict (policing action) was just a way to make sure the military supply companies could sell their wares. never mind the lives it cost! Myself I consider Johnson and McNamara two of the biggest mass murders of history. It was a money thing not a war ok. check out the Johnson tapes the proof is there.

[evilwill88]

Don't forget America's anti communism views.

I'm sure that played a major role in it.

[JoePublicJagoan]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Some americans have tried to tell me that they did not lose the Vietnam war.[/quote]:rolleyes: , yeah...right. You must have been conversing with some pretty smart ones, lol. If they said we won, they must have been talking about a knowledge gain as a result of the conflict.

[Smersh999]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Jesus, you get things like Mai Lai with the military not able to do all it wanted? Perhaps they'd have to wanted to just blow every village off the map. [/quote]

All armies have their rogue elements imo. The US, the British, the Germans, all of them. Sadly, there are always going to be incidents like Mai Lai taking place. With Mai Lai, the unit involved obviously wasn't obeying LBJ's orders (although he would hardly give an order to massacre a village full of women and children anyway would he?) Doesn't alter the apparent fact though that the US military had its hands tied in Vietnam.

[night owl]

It did change flaws in our millitary and start that thing we called the arms race which did bankrupt the soviet union,food for thought.

[mickydoolittle]

"not even after Communist officials in Vietnam have publicly admitted that they were losing the war on the ground there but were depending on winning the war politically in the American media."
---From a quote by Thomas Sowell in another thread.

Yeah, I'm right--I've always been right, and I'll always continue to be right.

[stewey]

What was the point of this thread other than to bash America for its one loss (due to media and hippies) against its many victories?

[jescis]

I am jescis, and my dad is a vietnam veteran. I am told by him that yes their hands where tied because of the president(s). One of his "stories" is that he was to kill anybody (man, woman, and/or children) in a certain villiage and nobody was there when he got there. And no the truth is we lost the war. And to disrespect a person for doing thier job is insulting to them and thier families as they did to the vets when they came back. Before you go fighting for your country ask yourself "can I take orders from others", if not then you are screwed. Because whether in war ,gangs, or some bad situation on the street then you're dead. For instance if an enemy who knows the terrain better than you, is the same race as the people you're trying to protect, he/she is at your back with a m-16, what would you do if you had only a knife, and all your friends are dead? One thing I also got from my father is "WAR IS HELL".

[dutchie]

I am jescis, and my dad is a vietnam veteran. I am told by him that yes their hands where tied because of the president(s). One of his "stories" is that he was to kill anybody (man, woman, and/or children) in a certain villiage and nobody was there when he got there. And no the truth is we lost the war. And to disrespect a person for doing thier job is insulting to them and thier families as they did to the vets when they came back. Before you go fighting for your country ask yourself "can I take orders from others", if not then you are screwed. Because whether in war ,gangs, or some bad situation on the street then you're dead. For instance if an enemy who knows the terrain better than you, is the same race as the people you're trying to protect, he/she is at your back with a m-16, what would you do if you had only a knife, and all your friends are dead? One thing I also got from my father is "WAR IS HELL".
First of all, welcom to the forum, jescis.

Yes, war is hell. Personally I find the question who won or lost the Vietnam war not very interesting. I think both parties lost too much. This war should not have been fought in the first place. All wars have immorality as their common demeanor. When you condone women and children to be murdered, you're immoral, period.

I feel sorry for all soldiers that fell victim to the Vietnam war (or to any war for that matter). They're the pawns on the chessboard of the mighty and immoral.

[jescis]

Yes war is hell but for those who have been in one "we" know really what it's all about. winning. I think my son Jescis was trying to say that politician's and I'll add the media have way too much influence in what we as combat soldiers are suppose to do and not do. Have you ever noticed that we and our allies are the one's sticking to the "rules of war" or the Geneva convention our enemy's only think of that when they can use it as propaganda against us. War is hell but if we are going to send our men & women into one let's untie their hands and let them do their job, the way they are trained to do it.