Religion of Arda.. Any questions?!?

[dutchie]

The entirety of existence in which all worlds, stars and galaxies were made is called Eä ("let these things be"). There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought...
Arda was created by Ilúvatar, through the song and music of the Ainur. After the creation of Arda, many of the Ainur descended into it to guide and order its growth; of these there were fifteen more powerful than the rest. Fourteen of these great Ainur became the Valar, or Powers of Arda. The fifteenth, Melkor, turned aside from that path and became the first Dark Lord. The many lesser Ainur that accompanied the Valar into Arda are known as Maiar.
Each of the Maiar was attached to the 'people' of a particular Vala. So, for example, the Maia Ossë, as a spirit of the sea, belonged to the people of Ulmo, while Curumo, the Maia who came to Middle-earth as Saruman, belonged to the people of Aulë the Smith.

In the Third Age, there were still Maiar in physical form to be found in Middle-earth. The most important of these were Saruman, Sauron (originally also of Aulë's people), and Olórin, known as Gandalf, who belonged to the people of Manwë and Varda.


This much about the creation of Middle Earth. IF anyone has any questions concerning anything that took place in the 3rd Era (the time frame of the LOTR) or about Ilúvatar, the one and only God of Eä - I'd be happy to answer them. I wholeheartedly invite B.Nye the Uruk-Hai to join in with the research and answering of your questions.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

I wholeheartedly invite B.Nye the Uruk-Hai to join in with the research and answering of your questions.
AWESOME!!! Thank you, dutchie, for the invitation! Although I am not as well versed in the religion of Arda as I am in Jedianity, I will do my best to complement whatever knowledge that you impart unto us with your wisdom. Praise Ilúvatar!

[Skippy]

The entirety of existence in which all worlds, stars and galaxies were made is called Eä ("let these things be").

Oh great, another fictional religion that comes complete action figures, a box set and lost more merchandising. Change the names and it sounds like you have got mostly Greek mythology with a tiny sprinkle of Judaism.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Oh great, another fictional religion that comes complete action figures, a box set and lost more merchandising. Change the names and it sounds like you have got mostly Greek mythology with a tiny sprinkle of Judaism.
2/3 of the world's population regards Christianity with the same ridicule and disgust that you regard all other religions, including Jedianity and Arda.

[Skippy]

2/3 of the world's population regards Christianity with the same ridicule and disgust that you regard all other religions, including Jedianity and Arda.


Care to support that? Oh wait...of course you can't because you pulled that out of your arse. 2/3 of the world's population would pretty much be all the Christians and the Muslims...oh...by the way, Christians are respected by Muslims as People of the Book.

So that leaves us with the Taoists (pronounced Dow O Ist) and theirs is not a religion that would ridicule any other or else there wouldn't be any Catholics in China and there are quite a few. The Buddhists? Never. Hindus? nope. Sikhs? nope...

so that leaves the Atheists, some agnostics, Communists, Wiccans, and Jews. Hardly even 10% of the world's population.

You know Nye, it isn't necessary for you to keep proving to me how little you know about this subject....you've succeeded quite well at convincing me that you know less than my 13 year old...mind you...let's give the kid credit he's been reading at levels 5 years ahead of him since he was 8 and his doing his next book report on the Holy Blood | Holy Grail

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Care to support that?
Okay...

http://www.adherents.com/rel_pie.gif

Christianity: 2 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
Buddhism: 360 million
Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
primal-indigenous: 150 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 14 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 6 million
Jainism: 4 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 3 million
Tenrikyo: 2.4 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 700 thousand
Scientology: 600 thousand
Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand



Oh wait...of course you can't because you pulled that out of your arse.
And I apologize for the smell, seeing as how it came from my rectum and all. I got this information from http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html but there were other websites with similar statistics. Again, I apologize for the smell...


2/3 of the world's population would pretty much be all the Christians and the Muslims...oh...by the way, Christians are respected by Muslims as People of the Book.
55% actually, but you weren't too far off. Might I suggest that you put this "respect" to the test and take your next vacation to Iraq, Iran or Syria perhaps?


So that leaves us with the Taoists (pronounced Dow O Ist) and theirs is not a religion that would ridicule any other or else there wouldn't be any Catholics in China and there are quite a few. The Buddhists? Never. Hindus? nope. Sikhs? nope...
Some of these religions may not "ridicule" Christianity, sure. But they certainly do not consider the mythical characters and mythology of Christianity to be true by any means. Christianity is a bogus religion to them. And if you don't believe this, then you are truly naive...


You know Nye, it isn't necessary for you to keep proving to me how little you know about this subject....you've succeeded quite well at convincing me that you know less than my 13 year old..
<< spends a few minutes looking at previous posts by Skippy >>
Wait a minute... oh, there's some... nope... nope... false alarm. Still waiting to see 1 byte of proof or fact to support ANYTHING that Skippy has said so far. Ironically, you have done very little to prove how much you supposedly know about this subject. Up to this point, just paranoid knee-jerk responses, empty rhetoric, sadly biased opinions and typically blind faith. But such is the norm in the Religion forum...


and his doing his next book report on the Holy Blood | Holy Grail
LOL!!! Good for him! He needs to be exposed to some reality. Be prepared for some TOUGH questions, Skippy!

[Skippy]

No need to quote your hokum.....you quite simply showed that you were wrong....so, you're right....55% versus 2/3....close enough that the range is in there somewhere.

Do you know any Muslims? Have you ever been to a Mosque? Don't listen to those you despise so much for their propaganda...I have way too many friends that are Muslims to know that Christians are respected. Even in the Taliban Afghanistan Christians were not persecuted.

But, I will give you 1/2 pt for doing your own research, and now that you've looked at you can see that your response changes from one of Christians being ridiculed to one where not many people believe.

Keep up the good work of proving how little you know. As for my kid, tough questions don't scare me....I think you need to understand that I've been studying religions longer than you've been alive. I've been online since you fist got your very own action figures...so maybe you would be wise to actually research some of the stuff I share with you, you might find, like you did with your statement about ridiule, that you really don't know what you are talking about.

[dutchie]

WTF?!? Hellooooo!!! Can we PLEASE stay on topic here?!?
Will all infidels without relevant questions please return to the southern lands or to the mudpits of Mordor where they came from?!

Bill, may the light of the Two Trees of Valinor, captured in the Three Great Jewels - made by Fëanor, greatest of the craftsmen of the Noldor - also known as the Silmarils, shine upon us, so that we may answer all questions with the wisdom that comes from them (and from any other relevant URL we may need to figure all of this out).

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

No need to quote your hokum.....you quite simply showed that you were wrong....
Ummm, I thought that you might like to see some facts, but apparently I was wrong. I realize now that facts, logic and reality have no place in your life. But let me try again. Now, scroll up a little bit... there ya go... just a... a little bit... okay... now stop! See that? Yeah, now read it. Go on, read it! It's okay, it won't bite! Yeah, there ya go! Good boy! See how it says EXACTLY what B.NyeTheUruk-Hai said? Oh, okay. Read it again, only this time mouth the words as you read it. There, that's better! Good boy! Yeah, Nye was... GASP... RIGHT! But how can that be? YOU said that Nye was WRONG. But CLEARLY he is RIGHT, as evidenced by the information RIGHT ON THE SCREEN. Oh... I get it. Skippy has very TINY testicles and thus cannot admit when he's wrong even when the information is RIGHT there in front of him. What a small little man...

SIDE NOTE: Skippy STILL has yet to provide 1 byte of ANYTHING to support his arguments aside from simply cutting and pasting PREVIOUS "rebuttals" that he's already used and which are comprised of paranoid knee-jerk responses, empty rhetoric, sadly biased opinions and typically blind faith. Not even 1 byte! Wow...


Do you know any Muslims? Have you ever been to a Mosque?
I've known a few Muslims in my day, but I have a much more interesting story to tell you. A few years ago, I worked with an Egyptian here in Canada. He was born and raised in Egypt and became a medical doctor. I asked him what made him decide to come to Canada with his wife and three kids. He proceeded to tell me how he had set up a practice in Egypt and was doing fairly well. That is, until the local Cleric decided to step in and change things. This cleric told the people NOT to go and see my Egyptian friend, to instead go to other doctors. To make a long story short, his practice was ruined and he was forced via religious pressure to leave his beloved country and come to Canada. Why would this Cleric want to force my Egyptian friend out of the country? Because he was Christian. And Egypt is a much more "moderate" Muslim country than Iraq, Iran or Syria. So don't be naive and think that your "Americanized" Muslim friends represent the Muslim world, because they don't. My challenge for you to take your next vacation to Iraq, Iran or Syria still stands. But make sure that you have life insurance before you go...

SIDE NOTE: Skippy STILL has yet to provide 1 byte of ANYTHING to support his arguments aside from simply cutting and pasting PREVIOUS "rebuttals" that he's already used and which are comprised of paranoid knee-jerk responses, empty rhetoric, sadly biased opinions, typically blind faith and now distorted "Americanized" world views from atypical "Americanized" Muslims. Not even 1 byte! Wow...


But, I will give you 1/2 pt for doing your own research, and now that you've looked at you can see that your response changes from one of Christians being ridiculed to one where not many people believe.
I give you ZERO points for not doing any research AT ALL. Again, I've got balls and you DON'T...

SIDE NOTE: Skippy STILL has yet to provide 1 byte of ANYTHING to support his arguments aside from simply cutting and pasting PREVIOUS "rebuttals" that he's already used and which are comprised of paranoid knee-jerk responses, empty rhetoric, sadly biased opinions, typically blind faith and now distorted "Americanized" world views from atypical "Americanized" Muslims. Not even 1 byte! Wow...


I think you need to understand that I've been studying religions longer than you've been alive. I've been online since you fist got your very own action figures...
LOL! Once again, just how old do you think that I am? I'm eager to hear your guess! The online quote is quite impressive seeing as how there was no such thing as an internet back when I got my first action figures, unless the Commodore64 somehow had online capabilities that I wasn't aware of.

SIDE NOTE: Skippy STILL has yet to provide 1 byte of ANYTHING to support his arguments aside from simply cutting and pasting PREVIOUS "rebuttals" that he's already used and which are comprised of paranoid knee-jerk responses, empty rhetoric, sadly biased opinions, typically blind faith, distorted "Americanized" world views from atypical "Americanized" Muslims and now carnival-like mental abilities that allow him to guess peoples' ages. Not even 1 byte! Wow...


...so maybe you would be wise to actually research some of the stuff I share with you,
LOL! Look in the mirror! Or better yet, look at ANY of your previous posts! Skippy STILL has yet to provide 1 byte of ANYTHING to support his arguments aside from simply cutting and pasting PREVIOUS "rebuttals" that he's already used and which are comprised of paranoid knee-jerk responses, empty rhetoric, sadly biased opinions, typically blind faith, distorted "Americanized" world views from atypical "Americanized" Muslims, carnival-like mental abilities that allow him to guess peoples' ages and now hypocritical double standards. Not even 1 byte! Wow...


you might find, like you did with your statement about ridiule, that you really don't know what you are talking about.
This was a matter of semantics, and I had big enough balls to admit as much. Unfortunately, you DON'T have balls of ANY size which makes you a pathetically small, teeny little man. In fact, my action figures are bigger men than you...

SIDE NOTE: Skippy STILL has yet to provide 1 byte of ANYTHING to support his arguments aside from simply cutting and pasting PREVIOUS "rebuttals" that he's already used and which are comprised of paranoid knee-jerk responses, empty rhetoric, sadly biased opinions, typically blind faith, distorted "Americanized" world views from atypical "Americanized" Muslims, carnival-like mental abilities that allow him to guess peoples' ages, hypocritical double standards and now recyclable cut-and-paste responses that can be used generically in ANY unintelligent rebuttal. Not even 1 byte! Wow...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Oh, by the way, I'm going to revise the data that I provided for you earlier. According to Vox, approximately 50% of "Christians" use contraceptives in some form or another and thus this makes them NOT true Christians. So the actual number of "true" Christians (there's an oxymoron for you) in the world is reduced to 1 billion which is 16.5% of the world's population. Wow. Thanks to Vox, now there are almost as many atheists/agnostics as there are Christians! Put on a life jacket, Skippy, you're on a sinking ship...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

My apologies, dutchie, for straying off topic. Skippy has a nasty habit of sticking his nose where it doesn't belong and attempting to spoil the fun of others. Anyway, I have GLORIOUS news! Check out the following link and then be prepared to make a pilgrimmage to Toronto next February!!!

Lord of the Rings Stage Production (http://lotr.dynalias.com/main.html)

Yooooouuuuuu... shaaalllllll not... paaassssss... this opportunity!

[Skippy]

My apologies, dutchie, for straying off topic. Skippy has a nasty habit of sticking his nose where it doesn't belong and attempting to spoil the fun of others. Anyway, I have GLORIOUS news! Check out the following link and then be prepared to make a pilgrimmage to Toronto next February!!!



Hay dipstick....it's really easy to figure out....my nose gets to belong wherever I decide to put it. If I wasn't allowed to post in here then I assume I would be blocked....nope...still looks good.

The simple fact of the matter is, discussing hypothetical religions like this one and your Jedi BS, is something that people who don't really understand religions do. That would be you. Can't handle the real stuff so you make some crap up out of your brain because then you don't really have to think about it, you just post whatever comes into your head.


So now that your relgion has a musical, does that give it credance? Or is it just an off topic post to keep this thread?

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Hay dipstick....it's really easy to figure out....my nose gets to belong wherever I decide to put it. If I wasn't allowed to post in here then I assume I would be blocked....nope...still looks good.
Yeah, we've noticed. Aaaahhhh, the memories... the last time that I heard somebody say the word "dipstick" was when I was in grade 3. But hey, if your only defence is the use of inane grade-school playground name-calling, then go for it! No no no! Don't worry! I promise that I won't tell my mommy...


The simple fact of the matter is, discussing hypothetical religions like this one and your Jedi BS, is something that people who don't really understand religions do. That would be you.
And as long as discussing hypothetical religions pisses you off as much as it obviously DOES, I will continue to make up stuff just to piss you off! LOL! Oh, and by the way, I hope that saying that I don't understand religions isn't an insult, because that would imply that I CARE that I don't understand. Thanks for trying though...


Can't handle the real stuff so you make some crap up out of your brain
BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
You mean kind of like how YOU "can't handle the real stuff", so you believe in some invisible man who lives in the sky and controls your life, who was made up by some guy SEVERAL MILLENNIA AGO who "made some crap up out of his brain". LOL!!! WHAT a hypocrite!!! Congratulations, Skippy!!! LOL!!! You've successfully described HOW and WHY religions originated in ONE elegant sentence. What's REALLY funny though is how you've insulted ALL religions in your hypocritical attempt to insult Jedianity and Arda! Way to go, Skippy! LOL!!! Keep those "insults" coming!!! LOL!!!


So now that your relgion has a musical, does that give it credance?
Not as much credence as Mad Max making a snuff film...


Or is it just an off topic post to keep this thread?
Uummmm, I think that you might require some reading glasses because, last time I checked, Lord of the Rings is "somewhat" related to Arda which would subsequently make it "on topic" in this thread. And I'll keep posting things here even if it's NOT on topic JUST to piss you off, Skippy, simply because it DOES. LOL!!!

SIDE NOTE: Skippy STILL has yet to provide 1 byte of ANYTHING to support his arguments aside from simply cutting and pasting PREVIOUS "rebuttals" that he's already used and which are comprised of paranoid knee-jerk responses, empty rhetoric, sadly biased opinions, typically blind faith, distorted "Americanized" world views from atypical "Americanized" Muslims, carnival-like mental abilities that allow him to guess peoples' ages, hypocritical double standards and recyclable cut-and-paste responses that can be used generically in ANY unintelligent rebuttal. Not even 1 byte! Wow...

[dutchie]

Skippy, the mere fact that YOU don't believe in the One, Eru - the father of all things, doesn't mean you can come in here and post your hatred against the true faith of Arda... Come now, you behave in a manner very unfitting to your own religion.. You are most welcome here if you would ask questions. This is MY thread, I started it - not you - and you are welcome to post any questions you have here about the creation of Arda and all facts that happened during its 4 eras (the destruction of the one Ring was only a tiny fraction of its history, but a very significant fraction indeed - for it marked the end of Sauron and his kingdom of darkness).

I am happy there will be a play about the Lord of the Rings. Finally we will have our own Jesus Christ Superstar. I wished the music could be as sweet as Ainulindalë, the sound of the great concert of the Ainur, the bringer of all things that have come to be.
I have only one thing to say to you, Skippy: "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!"

[Skippy]

Skippy, the mere fact that YOU don't believe in the One, Eru - the father of all things, doesn't mean you can come in here and post your hatred against the true faith of Arda... Come now, you behave in a manner very unfitting to your own religion.. You are most welcome here if you would ask questions.
Okay, so I posted a statement that is an indirect question that compares this religion to Greek mythology. I see you did not elaborate, nor defend your religion. Thus, like the other fictional religion, no questioners allowed unless the questions are first approved by the head of that religion.






This is MY thread, I started it - not you - and you are welcome to post any questions you have here about the creation of Arda and all facts that happened during its 4 eras (the destruction of the one Ring was only a tiny fraction of its history, but a very significant fraction indeed - for it marked the end of Sauron and his kingdom of darkness).

In all fairness, MY thread about the prophecy of St. Malachi contains quite a few posts from you that have nothing to do with the topic. Topic creep is something that happens on every message board.


I am happy there will be a play about the Lord of the Rings. Finally we will have our own Jesus Christ Superstar. I wished the music could be as sweet as Ainulindalë, the sound of the great concert of the Ainur, the bringer of all things that have come to be.
I have only one thing to say to you, Skippy: "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!"


Still don't see how a musical has any religious significance. But, just like the other movie based relgion, there isn't any real substance to it so the discussion wanders into the merchandising and marketing very quickly. And as I said once before, perhaps if you were actually discussing the religion there would be some merit, but at this point it remains literary discussion at best, merchandising discussin at worst. Hence, this isn't about religion at all.

Also, and again in all fairness, that which is sewn in the other religious discussions will be allowed to grow in here as well. Just because your religion here is fictional does not make it less worthy of the treatment that is afforded to discussions about established religions.

[Mezurashi]

Skippy, why are you so full of hatred against anything that doesn't fit into your little paradigm of sense and sensibility? Do you know how simple minded and immature you seem? Your defense of a Death Cult doesn't make you seem ardent, but rather somewhat brainwashed or programmed. Oh, and Tom Clancey doesn't know what he's talking about, so stop referring to him for facts about the world.

[Skippy]

Skippy, why are you so full of hatred against anything that doesn't fit into your little paradigm of sense and sensibility? Do you know how simple minded and immature you seem? Your defense of a Death Cult doesn't make you seem ardent, but rather somewhat brainwashed or programmed. Oh, and Tom Clancey doesn't know what he's talking about, so stop referring to him for facts about the world.


Me filled with hatred? please point out where you have encountered anything hateful from me about any religion? There is no hatred in this, just pointing out some double standards. Also pointing out that this "religious" discussion isn't about a religion at all, it's a literary discussion that never really gets into religion but keeps straying to associated merchandising.

Tom Clancy for facts? Huh? What the hell are you talking about?

I will defend any faith that a person chooses to follow. I do not see anything wrong with any religion. It is not a relgion that is bad or good, but the persons who claim to be practicing it that are bad or good, depending on the religion and its values.

Death Cult? Oh, please start a new topic so we can adequately debate this; civil debate of course. But first, research the hell out of this because you can be assured that I will have done my research. Considering that you have recently joined AO, I suggest you do a bit of reading backwards first because you may discover that I actually know what I am talking about. You may not agree with what I say or my conclusions, but you can be assured that I am well read on the subject of religion, history, psychology and anthropology. I have a vast library of books on religion and history that will give me ready access to all kinds of information.

[dutchie]

Oh great, another fictional religion that comes complete action figures, a box set and lost more merchandising. Change the names and it sounds like you have got mostly Greek mythology with a tiny sprinkle of Judaism.
So this was your "question"? Hmmmm... To me it looks like two separate statements...

At first there were the books (just like in christianity - In greek mythology the myths came to life BEFORE the books were written) by our blessed gospel writer J.R.R. Tolkien, who spent almost a lifetime in quiet contemplation about the revelations that were put in his head.. Then LATER came the movie trilogy (which Tolkien never saw, because he had pressing engagements elsewhere..) and the action figures. Christianity and more precisely the Catholic Church uses them too (including the movie box -"The Passion"). Upon entering a catholic church (which I sometimes do, when it is of architectural interest) there is always that nauseating musty smell in combination with the lifesize, bloodsprinkled action figures - quite horrible for my little children, IMO.

I fail to see the Judaism reference, though..
Like all religions, this one is also about creation, people (and elves and orcs, of course) and good and evil. It is extremely well thought out, it has a great story line (which it shares with a good part of the Bible.. I always LOVED David and Goliath!!) and celebrates a large, nay huge number of almost obsessed followers (myself included).

So in conclusion: there is not much difference really between Christianity and the religion of Arda. The number of common factors is just overwhelming. Claiming it is fictional says something about YOUR beliefs, but in essence is no more than a subjective judgment.

Now, on to the next question - this time equipped WITH the question mark, please!!

[Skippy]

So this was your "question"? Hmmmm... To me it looks like two separate statements...

At first there were the books (just like in christianity - In greek mythology the myths came to life BEFORE the books were written) by our blessed gospel writer J.R.R. Tolkien, who spent almost a lifetime in quiet contemplation about the revelations that were put in his head..


Do you know this for sure? That he spent a lifetime in quiet contemplation? Is it possible that he was just writing a story and borrowed so much from other religions so that he didn't really have to devise a new one?




Christianity and more precisely the Catholic Church uses them too (including the movie box -"The Passion"). Upon entering a catholic church (which I sometimes do, when it is of architectural interest) there is always that nauseating musty smell in combination with the lifesize, bloodsprinkled action figures - quite horrible for my little children, IMO.


Response Part 1....touché...Response Part II....So this is more similar on a grand scale to Christianity than appears at first glance. Tolkien wrote the books (delivered the message) those who came after sold it as a commodity.




I fail to see the Judaism reference, though..
Like all religions, this one is also about creation, people (and elves and orcs, of course) and good and evil. It is extremely well thought out, it has a great story line (which it shares with a good part of the Bible.. I always LOVED David and Goliath!!) and celebrates a large, nay huge number of almost obsessed followers (myself included).

Contradicted yourself. But you are correct, there are a lot of parts to this story that come from the Bible and from Greek myths. Only the names are changed.



So in conclusion: there is not much difference really between Christianity and the religion of Arda. The number of common factors is just overwhelming. Claiming it is fictional says something about YOUR beliefs, but in essence is no more than a subjective judgment.

Calling it fictional has to do with the fact that nobody is actively partcipating in it. Greek myths would be a fictional religion if nobody had ever actually believed it or practiced it. Historically we know that this was a major religion a long time ago, whereas the religion of Arda was never actively practiced.

Or, a better example since you've admitted that there is little distinction between this and Christianity, would be the Mormons. If nobody had ever bought into the Joseph Smith/Brigham Young fictional creation, then the LDS would be a fictional religion, but since Utah exists, then the LDS is no longer a fictional religion, just a huge scam.




Now, on to the next question - this time equipped WITH the question mark, please!!

Is it possible that this religion was created as a vehicle to giving an alternate view of the Judea-Christian belief system in a form that would make it possible for persons who claim atheism, or have a really big issue with organized Christianity, to find the belief system palatble? If so, then is it possible that this is just Christianity in disguise?

What is the moral code, and where are the references to that?

Does Tolkien, the messenger, claim that this is a new religion, old religion, or religion at all with a message? Or does the messenger believe himself, that this is a fictional religion that was created solely for the purpose of literary vehicle?

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

I have only one thing to say to you, Skippy: "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!"
Please tell us, dutchie son of dutchie's father, what do these words mean?


Thus, like the other fictional religion, no questioners allowed unless the questions are first approved by the head of that religion.
This is a blasphemous lie, you infidel! The Apostle Bill and dutchie son of dutchie's father have answered ALL questions posed to them! Ask away!


Still don't see how a musical has any religious significance. But, just like the other movie based relgion, there isn't any real substance to it so the discussion wanders into the merchandising and marketing very quickly. And as I said once before, perhaps if you were actually discussing the religion there would be some merit, but at this point it remains literary discussion at best, merchandising discussin at worst. Hence, this isn't about religion at all. Also, and again in all fairness, that which is sewn in the other religious discussions will be allowed to grow in here as well. Just because your religion here is fictional does not make it less worthy of the treatment that is afforded to discussions about established religions.
Lighten up, Skippy! You're being a stick in the mud again!


Me filled with hatred? please point out where you have encountered anything hateful from me about any religion? There is no hatred in this, just pointing out some double standards.
The bad man (the use of the word 'man' is tenuous at best when describing Skippy) called my a "dipstick"! He made me feel sad! I hope he gets COODIES!!!


It is not a relgion that is bad or good, but the persons who claim to be practicing it that are bad or good, depending on the religion and its values.
Very insightful for a change! You DO realize though, that these religions, including YOURS, were created by ordinary people who sought to control the populace through religious blackmail. Thus, bad people made bad religions...


you can be assured that I will have done my research.
Unfortunately, the Bible and publications written by religious "scholars" are SEVERELY flawed due to their bias. REAL scholars who use OBJECTIVE science laugh at religious "scholars" whose SUBJECTIVE "findings" are altered to fit their religious agenda. If their "findings" don't support their religious beliefs, then these "findings" are refuted. Hardly objective. Nice try though...


I suggest you do a bit of reading backwards first because you may discover that I actually know what I am talking about.
TRANSLATION: He knows alot about mythology but little about reality.


At first there were the books (just like in christianity - In greek mythology the myths came to life BEFORE the books were written) by our blessed gospel writer J.R.R. Tolkien, who spent almost a lifetime in quiet contemplation about the revelations that were put in his head..
PRAISE THE TOLKIEN!!!


Christianity and more precisely the Catholic Church uses them too (including the movie box -"The Passion"). Upon entering a catholic church (which I sometimes do, when it is of architectural interest) there is always that nauseating musty smell in combination with the lifesize, bloodsprinkled action figures - quite horrible for my little children, IMO.
LOL!!! So one could say that Christianity INVENTED action figures! The Mary Magdalene action figure comes complete with alabaster jar and kung-fu anointing action...


So in conclusion: there is not much difference really between Christianity and the religion of Arda. The number of common factors is just overwhelming. Claiming it is fictional says something about YOUR beliefs, but in essence is no more than a subjective judgment.
What's sad is that Skippy and others like him can't see that Christianity is just another myth in a LONG procession of myths. He ridicules other religions because they are too "fantastical" and then turns right back around and expects others to believe that there is an invisible man in the sky, that Jesus performed miracles, that the ENTIRE Earth flooded, that Moses parted the Red Sea etc. etc. etc. ... Him and other religious zealots have achieved the pinnacle of hypocrisy and they are completely oblivious to this fact because they are so far out of touch with reality...


Do you know this for sure? That he spent a lifetime in quiet contemplation? Is it possible that he was just writing a story and borrowed so much from other religions so that he didn't really have to devise a new one?
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I think he's starting to get it!!! Now, Skippy, go stand in front of the mirror and repeat exactly what you just said. This is PRICELESS!!! He's using the SAME arguments to refute Arda that WE use to refute Christianity and other religions!!! What a hypocrite!!! LOL!!!


But you are correct, there are a lot of parts to this story that come from the Bible and from Greek myths. Only the names are changed.
DITTO!!! BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Is it possible that this religion was created as a vehicle to giving an alternate view of the Judea-Christian belief system in a form that would make it possible for persons who claim atheism, or have a really big issue with organized Christianity, to find the belief system palatble? If so, then is it possible that this is just Christianity in disguise?
Nope. As I explained in the Jedianity thread disclaimer, the purpose of creating Jedianity and subsequently Arda is to show religious zealots like yourself how EASY it is to create a religion and to bait you into asking questions which question Jedianity's and Arda's legitimacy for the purpose of demonstrating that these same legitimacy questions can be used to question the legitimacy of Christianity and other religions. AND YOU FELL FOR IT HOOK, LINE AND SINKER!!!!! You're showing the EXACT SAME skepticism for Jedianity and Arda as WE show for Christianity, pointing out the SAME FLAWS that we point out to YOU!!! We suckered you in and now you're TRAPPED in a corner!!! I just didn't think that it would be THAT easy. I'm almost disappointed...

[dutchie]

Do you know this for sure? That he spent a lifetime in quiet contemplation? Is it possible that he was just writing a story and borrowed so much from other religions so that he didn't really have to devise a new one?Who is to say? But the revelations have this profound comprehensiveness to them... truly everything is being covered in them. And what is more, the hero doesn't even get killed!! Even when under attack by the Mother Of ALL Spiders, Shelob, he did not flee, but held high the Phial of Galadriel, in which was captured the light of the evening star. The Light burned the eyes of the evil creature so it might recognize and run from the righteousness of Frodo, the Ringbearer.
Tolkien really started writing his first revelation, called "The Hobbit" in 1936. He stopped writing shortly before his death in 1973. I'd call this nothing short of a lifetime.


Is it possible that this religion was created as a vehicle to giving an alternate view of the Judea-Christian belief system in a form that would make it possible for persons who claim atheism, or have a really big issue with organized Christianity, to find the belief system palatble? If so, then is it possible that this is just Christianity in disguise?
Tolkien was a close friend to C.S. Lewis. Lewis was a famous author too, he wrote phantasy novels like the Narnia Series. Now THOSE had a very distinct christian odour (still quite readable, though..) while the storylines of The Silmarillion, The Hobbit and LOTR don't even touch christianity, except (arguably) at the point where Gandalf "dies", fighting the Balrog, and "resurrects" himself to come back as Gandalf the White. Afterwards however, the Gandalf figure gets far less important - the true hero is Frodo.
It was without doubt C.S. Lewis goal to make the christian morals and values more accessible to secularized readers. Tolkien didn't have this goal.
In fact, Tolkien was the foreign language expert - and this expertise came in quite handy when he had to write down all quotes in elvish and orcish in his revelations. If there are religions or myths that touch the LOTR and the Silmarillion, one should look to ancient Norse and Celtic myths. Eru knew who to pick to write down his gospel.

What is the moral code, and where are the references to that?I could reply by asking for the moral code of the bible and the references for that, but then you would be writing for three days on end to reply to that one. I do not believe there is a moral code - it's more like a theme. The war between the powers of good and evil. The idea that good will prevail when one perseveres in his quest. The impossible can be accomplished when one believes in commitment. Are these christian values? I think not. They are universal truths.

Does Tolkien, the messenger, claim that this is a new religion, old religion, or religion at all with a message? Or does the messenger believe himself, that this is a fictional religion that was created solely for the purpose of literary vehicle?Tolkien made no claim whatsoever. But from his letters one gets convinced that he really believed in the revelations he wrote. And of course, I am convinced too.

Let me add that I had a lot of fun reading Bill's reply to you. Indeed you come to this thread showing the very same scepticism and critique you are faced with in other religious threads..

One question from me to you: did you ACTUALLY READ the revelations of Tolkien? Like I read the Bible?? Or are you blurting our criticism while you didn't even bother reading these masterpieces of literature?!?

[dutchie]

Please tell us, dutchie son of dutchie's father, what do these words mean?
These words were shouted by Fingon. As High King, he commanded the assault upon Morgoth that became known as the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, the Unnumbered Tears, and in that assault he was himself slain by Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs in 1455 of the first Era.

"The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!"

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

One question from me to you: did you ACTUALLY READ the revelations of Tolkien? Like I read the Bible?? Or are you blurting our criticism while you didn't even bother reading these masterpieces of literature?!?
I suspect that this is dutchie son of dutchie's father's way of diplomatically telling Skippy that he is "being lazy", to use Skippy's own words. This is the very definition of hypocrisy, plain as day. Dutchie son of dutchie's father and myself, the Apostle Bill, are not necessarily trying to ridicule you here, Skippy. Our goal is to show you our thought processes when we criticize ANY religion, not just Christianity. Although we don't expect you to abandon your faith, we hope that you would at least gain a better understanding of where we are coming from...

[Skippy]

Let me add that I had a lot of fun reading Bill's reply to you. Indeed you come to this thread showing the very same scepticism and critique you are faced with in other religious threads..

And there went any respect I have for you.



One question from me to you: did you ACTUALLY READ the revelations of Tolkien? Like I read the Bible?? Or are you blurting our criticism while you didn't even bother reading these masterpieces of literature?!?

Oh hell no, to be completely honest, I am not into fantasy literature so it would take me a lot to get into the series. I am blurting out criticism because there has been so much criticism directed towards Christians by you, and others. Figured I would just do what was done to others with great intention. We can all have our fun in different ways. Too many people here are too quick to argue the merits and pitfalls about Christianity without reading the Bible, nor studying its history. Why should you or anyone else expect anything different when it is something you hold dear to your heart? Don't like it do you? Perhaps the next time someone like Vox, or others before him attempts to offer insights or personal knowledge you may think twice about how you respond to them.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

"The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!"
Dutchie son of dutchie's father, your wangsaber of knowledge is surely wielded with much power! Indeed the day has come! Thank you for this translation!


These words were shouted by Fingon. As High King, he commanded the assault upon Morgoth that became known as the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, the Unnumbered Tears, and in that assault he was himself slain by Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs in 1455 of the first Era.
Tell me, wielder of knowledge, is this Gothmog that you speak of the very same creature who led the dark forces of Sauron at the battle of Pelennor Fields outside the mighty walls of Minas Tirith? For those less versed in dutchie's vast knowledge of all things Middle-Earth, I speak of Gothmog, the so-called "tumor orc" who led Sauron's ground forces in the siege of Minas Tirith, not the Morgul Lord (aka the Captain of the Nazgul, aka the Witch King of Angmar) who led the aerial assault of the Nazgul astride their menacing Fell Beasts. I await your clarification on this matter, wise one...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

And there went any respect I have for you.
Why? Because dutchie stated the TRUTH? Read your posts in this thread, Skippy. What dutchie says IS TRUE. YOU typed it YOURSELF! It's RIGHT THERE on your screen. You CAN'T deny it! We snared you in our trap and you don't have the balls to admit it like a man...


Too many people here are too quick to argue the merits and pitfalls about Christianity without reading the Bible, nor studying its history. Why should you or anyone else expect anything different when it is something you hold dear to your heart?
We DON'T expect it to be any different. You DO apparently, as is evidenced with you hypocritically telling me to read the Bible before I can comment on it while YOU fail to read Tolkien but feel perfectly qualified to comment on IT. Fantasy is not your thing, which is apparently an okay excuse for you to explain you not reading Tolkien. But ME not reading the Bible because it is arguably the most boring piece of fantasy literature in the history of mankind is NOT okay? You are BLEEDING hypocrisy, Skippy. You keep burying yourself deeper and deeper. And yes, I DID try to read the Bible once but was simply bored to tears...


Don't like it do you?
Don't CARE is more like it! YOU'RE the one who doesn't like it! I suspect that dutchie cleverly baited you into making more hypocritical comments. Frankly, I'm disappointed at how EASILY he accomplished this.

[dutchie]

Tell me, wielder of knowledge, is this Gothmog that you speak of the very same creature who led the dark forces of Sauron at the battle of Pelennor Fields outside the mighty walls of Minas Tirith? For those less versed in dutchie's vast knowledge of all things Middle-Earth, I speak of Gothmog, the so-called "tumor orc" who led Sauron's ground forces in the siege of Minas Tirith, not the Morgul Lord (aka the Captain of the Nazgul, aka the Witch King of Angmar) who led the aerial assault of the Nazgul astride their menacing Fell Beasts. I await your clarification on this matter, wise one...Err.. No. The Orcs of Mordor once were the foolsoldiers of Morgoth (maybe you got those mixed up?!?) and when he was banished from Middle Earth, they came under the command of his lieutenant, Sauron. Morgoth, the first Dark Lord, was also known as Melkor.
When there was in fact an orc commanding those troops (which I highly doubt) his name has remained unknown to us. The battle you speak of was on 14-15 March, 3019 of the third Era. The troops were commanded by Dwimmerlaik, the Lord of the Nazgûl, the Witch-King of Angmar, who was slain by Éowyn and Meriadoc.

Gothmog was the mightiest of Balrogs. He wielded a black axe. He was slain by the Elf-lord Ecthelion of the Fountain. They fought a great duel, and in the end Gothmog and Ecthelion slew one another. (1510, first Era - thousands of years before the Ringbearer ended his quest)

[dutchie]

And there went any respect I have for you..
Your sympathies turn like leaves in the wind, my friend Skippy. Know that my stance towards you has not changed. If my feelings for my fellow men would be evaporating as fast as they do with you, I fear I would become a very lonely man swiftly..

Respect is like love in a sense, Skip - you not only have to cherish and maintain it, you also have to EARN it.

[Mezurashi]

Care to support that? Oh wait...of course you can't because you pulled that out of your arse.

, it isn't necessary for you to keep proving to me how little you know about this subject....you've succeeded quite well at convincing me that you know less than my 13 year old


Y'know skip, there's a lot of agression in your 'rational retorts,' lol. And using a 13 year old genius child (your own issue, so you claim) as an example seems more than a little inafantile IMO. you don't have emotional issues? every time you post you spew virtriol with your facts and your grandiose claims have a more than familiar ring to a former marriage counsellor. I am not about to tell you what to do, or how to do it, but I felt compelled to comment on your, well, nature.

and, of course, you will stomp all over me for having the nerve to post this, lol. please be more creative with your grandiose claims of superior knowledge/intellect/experience - there are few enough wordsmiths in the world that it always gives me joy to be flamed by experts.

[Skippy]

Your sympathies turn like leaves in the wind, my friend Skippy. Know that my stance towards you has not changed. If my feelings for my fellow men would be evaporating as fast as they do with you, I fear I would become a very lonely man swiftly..

Respect is like love in a sense, Skip - you not only have to cherish and maintain it, you also have to EARN it.


Not quite, as you posted before, I am a person of intergity. I do not tolerate bullies, nor double standards.....which is a bullying trait. You on the other hand appear to do so, in fact, you seem to encourage or perhaps condone it. You see, it all starts with on particlular individual....apparently your latest bestest friend....this person likes to get into discussions about Christianty and ridicule those who believe in the Christ message, yet this person claims to have never read the Bible because it bores him to tears. So this person has lots to say about Christians, and then asks a question about Christianity, not to learn, but to gather ammunition for their next flame fest. Now this person won't bother to look up the answer themself, they just couldn't care less because they seek not knowledge.

So I take issue with that and tell them they are lazy. It's a pet peeve of mine when people are too lazy to do their own research, but are quite to claim expertise on a subject and are quick to ridicule others. Now this person has no compunction about posting off-topic crap ad nauseum all over the place, and in essence almost stalking me, but I can handle that crap so that's not really the issue. But, then we get a thread about Lucasmyth that quickly degenerates into plot whatifs and plain silliness, but yet, we see how irate this individual gets when a brief statement about that religion is not to their liking....aw shucks....someone took away HIS fun in HIS thread. So this results in this person's stalking activities increasing. Notice how I haven't posted to this person for a long time, yet not a day goes by without a very long post complete with tidy quotes picking apart everything I write? Go have a look, you will notice that this person spend way too much time following me around and focusing on everything I say with a flame of one kind or another. This person is trying to drive me away just like he did Vox. This is a bully. I have been participating in online forums for almost 15 years, I have seen many like this. I don't let them bother me because generally their internal demons are what drives them and they are like fire. If you feed them enough they eventually consume themselves.


So you, this person, and a few others ganged up on Vox and drove him away. That's for Vox to deal with as I said before, however, that doesn't change the messages that were directed at him. Vox never meant any harm, but he was attacked en masse for his beliefs, and two individuals stand out the most, you and your bestest friend here. At least you apologised.

So, you lost my respect the moment you decided to favour bullying on this forum. You are a moderator here, so by doing so, you encourage more bullies to come here and bully others. When that happens, you will discover that it has become a very exclusive self-congratualtions club, and when that happens, free speech is dead. But since free speech continues to exist here, and it doesn't look like Metal Militia has plans to change it, I choose to exercise my speech by reflecting back to people what they are putting out to others, if you get caught in that web, then so be it. I will continue to respect your opinions, however, I cannot respect a person who condones or encourages bullying any more than I can respect the bully. Had you not said anything, you'd have been okay, but you chose to cast your lot, thus you have to earn my respect again.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Err.. No. The Orcs of Mordor once were the foolsoldiers of Morgoth (maybe you got those mixed up?!?) and when he was banished from Middle Earth, they came under the command of his lieutenant, Sauron. Morgoth, the first Dark Lord, was also known as Melkor.
When there was in fact an orc commanding those troops (which I highly doubt) his name has remained unknown to us. The battle you speak of was on 14-15 March, 3019 of the third Era. The troops were commanded by Dwimmerlaik, the Lord of the Nazgûl, the Witch-King of Angmar, who was slain by Éowyn and Meriadoc.
Gothmog was the mightiest of Balrogs. He wielded a black axe. He was slain by the Elf-lord Ecthelion of the Fountain. They fought a great duel, and in the end Gothmog and Ecthelion slew one another. (1510, first Era - thousands of years before the Ringbearer ended his quest)
Your knowledge of all things Tolkien humbles me, Great One! I think that the Gothmog that I speak of is only mentioned in the "moving image" Gospels of Jackson [Jackson:LOTR:ROTK] and not at all in the written Gospels of Tolkien other than the mighty Balrog that you speak of.


Not quite, as you posted before, I am a person of intergity.
LOL! You can't even SPELL "integrity", let alone HAVE it...


I do not tolerate bullies, nor double standards...
You should practice what you preach, Skippy. And remember, YOU threw down the gauntlet, so don't go crying to mommy when somebody fights BACK...


So this person has lots to say about Christians, and then asks a question about Christianity, not to learn, but to gather ammunition for their next flame fest.
Now, I'm not exactly sure who this person is that you speak of, because you apparently lack the balls to address this person directly, so I'll speak up in their defence. This person was having a CIVILIZED conversation with VOX and asked an HONEST and LEGITIMATE question that VOX HIMSELF admitted was a GOOD QUESTION and subsequently answered with GRACE and SINCERITY. Suddenly, out of NOWHERE, this person was VICIOUSLY attacked in an UNPROVOKED TROLL by someone that he had NEVER even MET in the forums before. This person was interested in VOX's answer for the purpose of LEARNING more about Christianity, which is one of the reasons why he comes to the Religion forum in the first place. In an attempt to defend himself, this person was REMARKABLY labelled a troll himself, insulted, called infantile names and generally pestered by this over-zealous attacker. Ironically, in his attempt to learn more about the POSITIVE aspects of Christianity, this short-sighted attacker showed him a NASTY side of Christianity that has become all-too familiar to him, thus confirming his previous negative suspicions of the religion. Much to his bafflement, this person wondered why his attacker erroneously assumed that he was "gathering ammunition for his next flame fest. Then he realized the irony, that his attacker had not conducted adequate research himself regarding his and Vox's mutual respect for eachother, research that his attacker hypocritically accused him of not doing himself. The realization that this was simply a misunderstanding due to his attacker's "laziness" and flawed assumptions quickly dawned on him, and when he explained the simple misunderstanding to his attacker and graciously offered him a chance to save face, his attacker showed little integrity and a lack of testicles by refusing to admit his carnival of errors, choosing instead to continue his unwarranted and childish attacks on this person. And all that the attacker could do was accuse the unsuspecting defender of that which the attacker himself was shamelessly committing. And even though EVERYBODY else on the forums attempted to show this attacker the error of his ways and offered him an opportunity to save face, this attacker subsequently LASHED OUT at EVERYBODY else, naively wondering why everybody was against him. The attacker STILL could not see the error of his ways and continues to this day to lash out senselessly at ANYBODY who addresses him in a neverending vicious circle...


It's a pet peeve of mine when people are too lazy to do their own research
Then why didn't you research about Arda before asking dutchie son of dutchie's father a question that could EASILY be looked-up? It's called HYPOCRISY, Skippy. You're trapped. Quit while you're ahead and save what little "intergity" you have left...


but are quite to claim expertise on a subject and are quick to ridicule others.
I NEVER claimed expertise in Christianity. NEVER. You don't have ANY proof to support this statement. You don't have any proof to support ANY of your statements. You are wrong. And yes, you are correct about ridiculing others, but only if they PROVOKE me as you did. If you're going to throw a rock at a hornets' nest, be prepared to be STUNG, Skippy. And don't cry to mommy when you GET stung...


we see how irate this individual gets when a brief statement about that religion is not to their liking
LOL!!! NOBODY believes for a SECOND that I'm being serious when I "lash" out at people on the Jedianity thread! I'm being silly and having fun when I do that! It's not my fault that you're the ONLY one here who can't see the humor in these mock "attacks". It's quite sad actually and reveals your lack of sense of humor. What's funny is that you THINK that I get upset when people mock "Star Wars", yet SOMEHOW you fail to see the TONS upon TONS of insults and ridicule that I RELENTLESSLY hurl at "Star Wars" in my "responses", ALL in the name of good fun and humor. HOW can you POSSIBLY think that I take ANYTHING about Jedianity SERIOUSLY when I'M the one who pokes the MOST fun at it out of ALL of us? You're not making ANY sense, Skippy...


Notice how I haven't posted to this person for a long time
It's not MY fault that you don't have the BALLS to face your problems directly...


This person is trying to drive me away just like he did Vox. This is a bully.
YOU attacked ME, Einstein. YOU are the bully. The evidence is in your posts. And again, I think that you need reading glasses because it wasn't ME that drove Vox away. Others here will agree with that statement. Read the posts. Assuming, which you do quite often, is a nasty habit of yours, Skippy...


If you feed them enough they eventually consume themselves.
If you continue to feed me, I will continue to sh*t on you. If you apologize to me, which would be the honorable thing to do, then I will stop. But not only do you NOT apologize to me, but you continue to provoke me while accusing me of "stalking" you. Well, get used to it, because I WILL continue to defend myself as long as you continue to attack me, whether you choose to do so directly or choose to cowardly do so indirectly by referring to me in the third person. Believe me when I say that I will NOT consume myself and I WILL not give up, especially to someone with no balls to confront me directly, someone who tries to run and hide and pretend that I am not here. Like you said, you've had prior experience on other forums, but prepare for a different KIND of experience here because the people on these AO forums are very smart and you will find it very difficult to peddle your flawed "logic" here. All you have to do is apologize. That's it. And I promise here and now, on my honor, that I will not gloat about it. It's your choice...


Vox never meant any harm, but he was attacked en masse for his beliefs, and two individuals stand out the most, you and your bestest friend here.
Again, you are WRONG. The posts here CLEARLY show that I was NOT responsible for driving Vox away. Again, Vox and I had mutual respect for eachother and I was actually his best non-religious friend here. You continue to make NO sense, Skippy...


At least you apologised.
See the above statement. Ironically, I have apologized to Vox a FEW times in the past for various issues and misunderstandings. The proof is CLEARLY in the posts. I have the BALLS to apologize when I'm wrong. YOU DON'T...


So, you lost my respect the moment you decided to favour bullying on this forum. You are a moderator here, so by doing so, you encourage more bullies to come here and bully others.
As a moderator here, dutchie has an OBJECTIVE view regarding our "debates". Remember, YOU attacked ME. Thus, YOU are the bully here. He recognizes this, but respectfully allows it to continue because he knows that I can handle myself although I do appreciate the occasional support that the intelligent people here give to me. He also allows it to continue because I haven't cried to my mommy about it. And even though you HAVE cried to mommy about it, dutchie realizes that YOU are the attacking bully here and is letting karma take its course...


So, you lost my respect the moment you decided to favour bullying on this forum. You are a moderator here, so by doing so, you encourage more bullies to come here and bully others.
YOU attacked ME. YOU are the bully here, Skippy. Everybody sees this except YOU...


Had you not said anything, you'd have been okay, but you chose to cast your lot, thus you have to earn my respect again.
I don't presume to speak for dutchie, but I suspect that he doesn't much care to have your respect, which is exceedingly pretentious of you, because you dole out respect like most people change TV channels...

[dutchie]

Skippy, I have the RIGHT to agree with anyone I damn well please. I might be an administrator here (after roaming internet forums for 15 years, I'd say you by now should know the difference...) but that doesn't mean I can't agree with ANYONE on ANYTHING - they still haven't worked out an admin-robot YET (and if they did, we wouldn't be able to afford it anyway - remember I took this job getting paid zip, just like ALL of the other mods and admins). But you immediately translate that into brown nosing. Yuk. I refuse to do my best to gain your respect (as if I would be less happy in life without it) when at the same moment you do your utter best to destroy the respect I might have for you.

And Bill's right. You're a bit like Cliff Richard, who is the only person in the world that still doesn't know he's gay. You're constantly telling everyone what a load of shitheads we are, not doing our homework and all that crap, while at the same time you practise ALL that you spit on. I won't stick a label on it, you do a fine job at that yourself.

Bill is right - I'll let you do your thing, because he seems quite (!) capable of setting up a defense, WITHOUT resorting to hate mongering. He is not my best friend at present, but who knows what the future will bring?!? We do seem to connect... I'm always attracted by people that have the ability to make me laugh...

And don't forget grntiyeit... also important, of course...:crazy:

[dutchie]

Your knowledge of all things Tolkien humbles me, Great One! I think that the Gothmog that I speak of is only mentioned in the "moving image" Gospels of Jackson [Jackson:LOTR:ROTK] and not at all in the written Gospels of Tolkien other than the mighty Balrog that you speak of..
Don't be humbled, but rise, oh Apostle Bill. In the eyes of Eru we're all assho... err.. equals.
And yes indeed - the ones who put the revelations of Tolkien to live motion on the white and/or glass screen seem to have missed out on a couple of details. Never mind, there are still the wise ones that have enclosed this wisdom in their hearts and minds and are willing to share this well with all who want to quench their thirst for sacred knowledge.

Let there be more questions!!

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Let there be more questions!!
I have a question that has troubled me greatly, dutchie son of dutchie's father. I have learned from the teachings of Jedianity that sex is a good thing, and is often ENCOURAGED even to the point of self-pleasure (Hand Solo) and incest (Luke and Leia). What is Arda's stance on sex in general? And another question along the same lines regards the traitorous Saruman. Clearly, his mighty Orthanc Tower at Isengard is an obvious example of phallic symbolism. But does the sheer SIZE of Orthanc imply that Saruman may be "compensating" for his "shortfalls"? And does the fact that Orthanc is black mean that he has pleasured himself SO MUCH that his "manhood" has become a black and necrotic stump? If so, then this might explain why Saruman so eagerly snatched Gandalf's staff from him while the two of them battled inside Orthanc. Oh, that reminds me of another question... In reaction to Saruman stealing his staff, Gandalf strangely bursts out into an energetic display of breakdancing. Is breakdancing popular in the cultures of Middle-Earth? Any wisdom that you can impart unto me is greatly appreciated, great one!

[dutchie]

Orthanc was built long before Saruman took it as his living quarters, I'm afraid. But you're right - the shape and size (and the smooth, shiny black material) would have you think it was a phallic symbol. And indeed, when one takes the literal meaning of the word orthanc in old frisian, it is "black mamba", and we all now what that's about....
Now the break dancing you described is an ancient rite, where old men (who can't get hold of females of the likes of Arwen anymore) show each other they are interested in having intercourse the Dwarfish way. Immediately Gimli, son of Groin walks into our memory - he clearly had a crush for the cave-troll in Moria. Now we all now what trolls do when they have nothing to do. They scorn and attack people and are always playing around with their thingy.. err.. spear.

I could go on and on, walking further down the steps of decency as I write. But with the younger members of these forums in mind, I will close with this noble thought: was it not Arwen Undomiel, who was so eager on having sex with Aragorn, that she laid down her immortality?!? Personally I would have thought twice before giving up immortality just for a quicky...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

And indeed, when one takes the literal meaning of the word orthanc in old frisian, it is "black mamba", and we all now what that's about....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! It ALWAYS comes back to "what that's about"...


where old men (who can't get hold of females of the likes of Arwen anymore)
Yeah, you have to feel sorry for Gandalf. He's just a pale shadow of his former self. He used to be the Fonz of Middle-Earth where he would just whistle and babes and she-elves would instantly swarm him. Now, the only thing that swarms him when he whistles is his horse Shadowfax. Not that there's anything wrong with that!


Now the break dancing you described is an ancient rite, where old men (who can't get hold of females of the likes of Arwen anymore) show each other they are interested in having intercourse the Dwarfish way.
LOL!!! Dare I ask for details regarding the "Dwarfish way"?


Now we all now what trolls do when they have nothing to do. They scorn and attack people
LOL!!! Yeah, I've had first-hand experience of that here!


was it not Arwen Undomiel, who was so eager on having sex with Aragorn, that she laid down her immortality?!? Personally I would have thought twice before giving up immortality just for a quicky...
Depends on who the quicky is with...

[dutchie]

It is a good thing that my answer to you question made you laugh, Bill the Apostle. Arda is all about lightheartedness and laughter, smoking the pipe and drinking ale after bashing in a few skulls...

More questions, anyone?

[redmamma]

So one could say that Christianity INVENTED action figures! The Mary Magdalene action figure comes complete with alabaster jar and kung-fu anointing action...

Sorry guys, can't let that one slide. True Christianity has no action figures, and never did. Yes, I know what that implies. (Sorry Vox, just reading my Bible).

Exodus 20:4-5

"You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them..."

Yes, that includes all these "life-sized action figures" hanging in the front of many churches today. HA, like a Jewish carpenter living in that time period (when it was considered a shame for a man to have long hair) who was strong enough to fling tables across the temple, would look like that weakling they portray anyway. Plain and simple, that thing is nothing more than an idol and has nothing to do with the Christ of the Bible!

[Mezurashi]

Sorry guys, can't let that one slide. True Christianity has no action figures, and never did. Yes, I know what that implies. (Sorry Vox, just reading my Bible).

Exodus 20:4-5

"You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them..."

Yes, that includes all these "life-sized action figures" hanging in the front of many churches today. HA, like a Jewish carpenter living in that time period (when it was considered a shame for a man to have long hair) who was strong enough to fling tables across the temple, would look like that weakling they portray anyway. Plain and simple, that thing is nothing more than an idol and has nothing to do with the Christ of the Bible!

sorry to burst your bubble but have you ever visited Heritage USA? it s theme park created and run by the group that was created by Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker. Action figures abound there, Samson and Delilah (with Revealing Toga!), Jesus in the Temple (complete with rippling muslces) and even a God figure on a chair looking grim (he resembles Efram Zimbalist Jr.).

though I respect the SPIRIT of Christianity the Fact is that too many greedy people have smeared the religion with their money grubbing ways that any claims towards the sanctity or integrity of the Christ Faith makes me retch. Individual integrity I accept, but any group claim on that level is simply false and therefore a sin.

[redmamma]

"By their fruits you shall know them", and by the Bakker fruits, there's not much TRUE Christianity going on over there. I did say "True Christianity", not "professing Christianity". There is a difference.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

It is a good thing that my answer to you question made you laugh, Bill the Apostle. Arda is all about lightheartedness and laughter, smoking the pipe and drinking ale after bashing in a few skulls...
"And to heah deh lamentashuhn of deh vimmen!" to quote Ahnuld from "Conan"...


sorry to burst your bubble but have you ever visited Heritage USA? it s theme park created and run by the group that was created by Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker. Action figures abound there, Samson and Delilah (with Revealing Toga!), Jesus in the Temple (complete with rippling muslces) and even a God figure on a chair looking grim (he resembles Efram Zimbalist Jr.).
That's hilarious! They should have some of the really early OT characters and equip them with "begatting action", Noah as an albino comes with an ark that is monumentally too small to realistically hold two of every creature on Earth, Eve comes with strategically placed fig leaves along with an apple and a serpent with tongue-flicking action. Hasbro is desperately lobbying for the rights to create a David Koresh action figure complete with an AK-47 for the modern Christians...


though I respect the SPIRIT of Christianity the Fact is that too many greedy people have smeared the religion with their money grubbing ways that any claims towards the sanctity or integrity of the Christ Faith makes me retch.
All kidding aside, I feel the same way that you do, Mezurashi. Hypocrisy runs rampant in most religions and it's surprising how few people actually see this...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

"By their fruits you shall know them", and by the Bakker fruits, there's not much TRUE Christianity going on over there. I did say "True Christianity", not "professing Christianity". There is a difference.
With all due respect, I'm not insinuating that YOU don't practice "True Christianity", but even if "professing Christians" fail to meet your definition of "True Christians", then that figure of 2 billion Christians in the world quickly dwindles down to a VERY small number. It almost sounds like Opus Dei's philosophy is more in tune with "True Christianity"...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

STUNNING DISCOVERY!!!

Religion of Arda scholars and Jedianity scholars today were absolutely STUNNED at a remarkable discovery made recently at the Sea of Rhun, which is located north and slightly east of Mordor. What they found was a veritable treasure trove of scrolls dated several thousand years in the past. Scholars immediately dubbed this collection of scrolls the "Rhun Sea Scrolls".

An initial skimming of the scrolls revealed something that Arda scholars did NOT expect to find. Along with the expected information regarding the history of Middle-Earth, scholars found a brief appearance of what can only be described as a DARTH MAUL ORC !!! Arda scholars found this startling appearance contained within the Third Gospel of Jackson (theatrical widescreen version). The scene is the Siege of Gondor just after the gates of Minas Tirith have been broken by the battering ram known as Grond. Orcs and trolls have swarmed inside the city walls and there is a quick instance of just a few seconds where we can CLEARLY see an orc attacking a human at the right hand side of the screen. But this is no ordinary orc. This orc has blotchy red and black skin very reminiscent of Darth Maul from the Jedianity First Gospel of Lucas. To see the evidence for yourself, Arda scholars have revealed that this brief appearance of "Orc Maul" occurs approximately at the time stamp of [1:56:36] into the Third Gospel of Jackson (theatrical widescreen version). Arda scholars immediately apologized for being unable to provide the time stamp for the Extended Edition of the Third Gospel of Jackson due to the fact that they had recently lent their copy to other scholars. Regardless, Arda and Jedianity scholars are frantically scrambling for a possible meaning behind this apparent "bridge" between the two popular religions. Until then, the debate rages over the information contained within the Rhun Sea Scrolls...

[redmamma]

With all due respect, I'm not insinuating that YOU don't practice "True Christianity", but even if "professing Christians" fail to meet your definition of "True Christians", then that figure of 2 billion Christians in the world quickly dwindles down to a VERY small number. .


Absolutely! It's disgusting how many claim to be true Christians, yet do not even live by the very book in which they profess to believe. I guess you could call me an aspiring Christian. When I read it in the Bible, I do my best to adhere to it, not attack it with human reasoning.

By the way, I really do appreciate your angle in this thread...very insightful. But in the end, it all boils down to faith. My faith is in the Bible, not in what a church organization tells me. Either I have the faith that the Bible is the word of God, or I don't.

As far as Opus Dei, sorry, but I am only marginally familiar with their teaching. I try not to voice an opinion about things which I have not researched in detail.

[Giant Orc]

I have a few questions regarding the religon of Arda.

1) Is sex with robots, or any type of machine acceptable acceptable?

2) Can one be of more than one "faith" if believing in Arda?

3) Does it have a theme song?
3a) If not, can the theme song be "Can't Touch This"?

Your answers would be much appreciated. And if you find the first question unsettling, it involves a complicated conversation with my a Christian friend who said robot sex is sinful. But I'm having a hard time with my toaster as of lately...so I'm searching for answers, hopefully to repare our relationship.

[dutchie]

I have a few questions regarding the religon of Arda.

1) Is sex with robots, or any type of machine acceptable acceptable?No no, it it is is definitely definitely not not.
Of course I can understand that an orc - a vile creature like yourself - would like to do that, but it's still a no go...

2) Can one be of more than one "faith" if believing in Arda?The beautiful faith of Arda embraces believers of all faiths.

3) Does it have a theme song?What do you mean, a "theme song"?!? Does Christianity have a "theme song"? What nonsense!!!

3a) If not, can the theme song be "Can't Touch This"?No, it can not, you infidel!! If there is one song that would be fitting to serve as a theme song, it would be the beautiful and sensitive hymn we know as "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep", once performed by that celestial orchestra known as "Middle of the Road". There are many hymns that played an important role in Middle Earth, like "suck that pipe one more time", an old tune from the Shire, or "put a flower on the dark tower", from the age when Saruman was still friendly and deep into free sex, smoking of the weed and pacifism.. However, none have been chosen to serve as a religious anthem..

Your answers would be much appreciated. And if you find the first question unsettling, it involves a complicated conversation with my a Christian friend who said robot sex is sinful. But I'm having a hard time with my toaster as of lately...so I'm searching for answers, hopefully to repare our relationship.On second thought, if there's a machine I would advise a Giant Orc to have sex with, it's an electric garden shredder.

[Mezurashi]

"By their fruits you shall know them", and by the Bakker fruits, there's not much TRUE Christianity going on over there. I did say "True Christianity", not "professing Christianity". There is a difference.

sorry about that, by calling it true Christianity I assumed you were talking about Televangelists, they call their faith True after all...

there is no such thing as True Christianity (just take an open eyed look around you, sir) just as there can be no True Single Subjective Religion. but if your belief system is based on your subjective definition of the Bible, how can it be True? Wouldn't this make it Your version of the truth?

oh, and can I order one of the Rhun Sea Scrolls? it would go great with my petrified lightsaber :jamn:

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Welcome to dutchie's Arda thread, Giant Orc! Clearly, as indicated by your screen name, you are an avid devotee of Arda already!


1) Is sex with robots, or any type of machine acceptable acceptable?
This is a difficult question to answer because the Gospels of Tolkien and the Gospels of Jackson contain no mentions of any robots at all. Thus, I would have to agree with dutchie and say that robot sex or machine sex is out of the question. That would be the type of deviant behavior that I would expect from infidels. However, I noticed in your question that you repeated the word "acceptable" immediately after saying it the first time. One needs only to turn to Jedianity to discover that it is Trade Federation battle droids, the ones that say "roger roger", that often repeat their words. If you indeed are a battle droid, as I suspect, then it is okay for you to have sex with other robots, a term that I shall call "heterobotic sex".


3) Does it have a theme song?
3a) If not, can the theme song be "Can't Touch This"?
I agree with dutchie in labelling you an infidel! Clearly, Orc Giant, your love of the halfling leaf has clouded your mind! Please remain where you are as a group of Uruk-Hai have been dispatched to deal with you. While you are waiting, I feel that I must add to dutchie's suggested list of theme songs: "Great balls of Shire", "Old time rock and troll", "Gimli all your lovin'", "Sauron bloody Sauron", "Nazguls out for summer", "Proud Merry", "The Ent-ertainer", "Misty Mountain hop", "Pinball Wizard", "Girls just wanna have Gollum", "Why do fools of a Took fall in love", "Do it to me one Morgul time" and "Breakin' the Hobbit". Just to name a few...


But I'm having a hard time with my toaster as of lately...so I'm searching for answers, hopefully to repare our relationship.
My advice to you would be to stop waffling on this decision, otherwise you'll get burned...


from the age when Saruman was still friendly and deep into free sex, smoking of the weed and pacifism..
Aaahhh, that was the BEST age...


oh, and can I order one of the Rhun Sea Scrolls? it would go great with my petrified lightsaber
Order one of the scrolls? I'm sure that dutchie, son-of-dutchie's-father would share my disgust at the mere thought of ANY aspect of Arda being merchandised! How LOW can a religion get? Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to unwind with my Legolas dildo before going to bed on my Aragorn bed sheets...

[humanhybrid]

The entirety of existence in which all worlds, stars and galaxies were made is called Eä ("let these things be"). There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought...
Arda was created by Ilúvatar, through the song and music of the Ainur. After the creation of Arda, many of the Ainur descended into it to guide and order its growth; of these there were fifteen more powerful than the rest. Fourteen of these great Ainur became the Valar, or Powers of Arda. The fifteenth, Melkor, turned aside from that path and became the first Dark Lord. The many lesser Ainur that accompanied the Valar into Arda are known as Maiar.
Each of the Maiar was attached to the 'people' of a particular Vala. So, for example, the Maia Ossë, as a spirit of the sea, belonged to the people of Ulmo, while Curumo, the Maia who came to Middle-earth as Saruman, belonged to the people of Aulë the Smith.

In the Third Age, there were still Maiar in physical form to be found in Middle-earth. The most important of these were Saruman, Sauron (originally also of Aulë's people), and Olórin, known as Gandalf, who belonged to the people of Manwë and Varda.


This much about the creation of Middle Earth. IF anyone has any questions concerning anything that took place in the 3rd Era (the time frame of the LOTR) or about Ilúvatar, the one and only God of Eä - I'd be happy to answer them. I wholeheartedly invite B.Nye the Uruk-Hai to join in with the research and answering of your questions. Very intresting Dutchie! Got any web sites about this Eru? Im taking this as alien existence through the eyes of humanity. good day!

[dutchie]

"ALIEN EXISTENCE"?!?!? You INFIDEL!!! Eru is also known as THE ONE!! And yes, there can BE ONLY ONE!!!! (sssswooosshhh, said the sword...)

I am sure you can google up Ilúvatar - you'll get approx. 83,600 hits...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Sorry guys, can't let that one slide. True Christianity has no action figures, and never did. Yes, I know what that implies. (Sorry Vox, just reading my Bible).

Exodus 20:4-5

"You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them..."

Yes, that includes all these "life-sized action figures" hanging in the front of many churches today. HA, like a Jewish carpenter living in that time period (when it was considered a shame for a man to have long hair) who was strong enough to fling tables across the temple, would look like that weakling they portray anyway. Plain and simple, that thing is nothing more than an idol and has nothing to do with the Christ of the Bible!

I just saw this one on cnn.com - TALKING JESUS and MOSES DOLLS!

http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/12/news/midcaps/jesus_dolls/jesus_moses_body.jpg

Here's a link to the full story: http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/12/news/midcaps/jesus_dolls/index.htm?cnn=yes

[dutchie]

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Jesus has this zero-IQ look - Moses looks like he's just had a copious meal at a Greek restaurant, with a few retsina's too many...

Brings back memories of this Godley and Creme song "An Englishman in New York"

....a crucifix clock...
two miniature Romans,
running on rails
appear every hour
and bang in the nails...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Jesus has this zero-IQ look - Moses looks like he's just had a copious meal at a Greek restaurant, with a few retsina's too many...
HAHA!!! He DOES have that vacant look on his face like he's about to say "Dude, where's my donkey?" Moses just looks like he's constipated...

[redmamma]

I just saw this one on cnn.com - TALKING JESUS and MOSES DOLLS!

Like I said, No TRUE Christian would do such.

(BTW, love your sign lign)

[redmamma]

sorry about that, by calling it true Christianity I assumed you were talking about Televangelists, they call their faith True after all...

there is no such thing as True Christianity (just take an open eyed look around you, sir) just as there can be no True Single Subjective Religion. but if your belief system is based on your subjective definition of the Bible, how can it be True? Wouldn't this make it Your version of the truth?

What I mean by TRUE Christianity is by how a person lives by the Bible. If I were talking about TRUE Islam I would be talking about how a person lives by the Koran. All I am saying is that if you profess it, live it according to the book you claim your beliefs are based upon. I don't care if that book was written by God, Moses, Lucas. or Tolkien. If you profess to be a follower, then follow.

BTW, I'm not a "sir".

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

(BTW, love your sign lign)
Thank you, redmamma! It was a Jeopardy question. Unfortunately, I can't remember who the person was who said it.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I just wanna do some worshipping on Legolas! Hehehehe. :burnin:

Ya know, after all this time looking at B.Nye's nic and seeing the avatar, I just now got the Bill Nye the Uruk-Hai thing. Damn Im s-l-o-w.

[leyprophet]

Can I move into the halls of mandos maybe visit with aule's wife oh the pleasures I could have in her arms!

[Skygirl]

I have two questions to pose to the bringers of the Good News of Arda.

In the Book of Turin Son of Hurin and Glorund the Dragon it is said of Thalion and a thane of Morgoth on the mouth smote him . I am confused...is the smoting referred to here in in the literal sense as he was socked in the mouth or a more figurative expression as it has been stated by some rogue scholars that Morgoth Passim was a bit of a 'man's man'?

Also line 133 of Turin's Fostering - but remember thy mother when thy manhood nears , this seems a bit perverse. Is this a hidden promotion of Freud's Oedipus Complex?

Sky - Order of Hirilorn

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

In the Book of Turin Son of Hurin and Glorund the Dragon it is said of Thalion and a thane of Morgoth on the mouth smote him . I am confused...is the smoting referred to here in in the literal sense as he was socked in the mouth or a more figurative expression as it has been stated by some rogue scholars that Morgoth Passim was a bit of a 'man's man'?
Ummmmm... yes? No? 42? I'm afraid that I'm stumped, and as such my answer is...
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!

[dutchie]

Actually, this is a great question, and I will have to consult the Elders to get a precise answer to this... Apart from that, it's a busy weekend, and can't get back to you on that one before tomorrow...

[Skygirl]

Ummmmm... yes? No? 42? I'm afraid that I'm stumped, and as such my answer is...
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!

Oh but Elder Brother have you not studied the Old Testament which includes, The Lays of Beleriand?

[Skygirl]

Actually, this is a great question, and I will have to consult the Elders to get a precise answer to this... Apart from that, it's a busy weekend, and can't get back to you on that one before tomorrow...

Oh wise Dutchie, son of Dutchie's Father, prophet of Arda, I truly look forward to your erudite response. As a neophyte in the Order of Hirilorn (I am sure you know this to be the Order of the Queen of Beeches, though some say this is a miss translation by Aefwine and the e's should be replaced by 'it'), I sometimes get confused as to whether the great books of our Lord are to be taken in a literal sense of if they are meant as metaphor.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Oh but Elder Brother have you not studied the Old Testament which includes, The Lays of Beleriand?
Alas, Skygirl, I have not. My shame is deeper than the chasm spanned by the Bridge of Khazad-Dum. I am only versed in the Gospels of Jackson and the Gospels of Tolkien. And as such, I can only speculate that The Lays of Beleriand are a new flavor of potato chip. Just out of curiosity, Skygirl, are you at all related to Sky Captain?

[Skygirl]

Alas, Skygirl, I have not. My shame is deeper than the chasm spanned by the Bridge of Khazad-Dum. I am only versed in the Gospels of Jackson and the Gospels of Tolkien. And as such, I can only speculate that The Lays of Beleriand are a new flavor of potato chip. Just out of curiosity, Skygirl, are you at all related to Sky Captain?

Oh but you must read this tome! It was gifted to us by Tolkien, Son of Tolkiens Father (that being Tolkien the Younger) about 20 years ago. Alas, your speculation as to the Testament being a new form of snack food is incorrect as it is said that our wise Father, Tolkien the Elder, had initially referred to this text as the Domination of Beleriand , thus being so, perhaps Raven could provide some insight.

No Brother I am not related to Sky Captain, nor am I related to the Skywalkers of the Jedi faith. I am however related to DN. Having already provided the possible incorrect translation of the Order of Hirilorn I am hoping to bring my Sister DN into our folds. I believe it would be quite fitting for her.

[dutchie]

I am not sure as to which dragon you are referring to in your question.. I know of no dragon that ever went by the name of "Glorund". However, the name you provide does bare some resemblance to that of "Glaurung", the golden Father of Dragons, so I will take the liberty to presume you were talking about him.
Glaurung was indeed slain by Túrin's black sword Gurthang in the forest of Brethil, so there is a connection to the characters you name in your question.
Thalion is in fact one of the names of Húrin, Túrins father, who lived between the years 439 and 500 of the First Age. During the Nirnaeth Arnoediad (the Battle of Unnumbered Tears) Húrin was captured by Morgoth, the Dark Lord, who kept him in bondage up to the moment of the death of his son Túrin.
Húrin remained a prisoner of Morgoth in Angband for 28 years. After his release he travelled to Nargothrond and then to Menegroth, after which he cast himself into the sea.

I have asked the Elders to shed some light onto this "smiting" of Húrin Thalion by a thane of Morgoth. They came to the conclusion that - although they agree that some doubt could arise on the sexual nature of the interaction between these characters - given the nature of the relationship between the Dark Lord and Húrin Thalion, there can have been no such interaction, and that socks (a garment unknown to that age) do not play a role therein, nor silk or nylon stockings. We have to take the word "smote" as the past tense of "to smite" or "to smite down", being the act of striking a mighty blow to the head or other vulnerable body part of an enemy or foe. In other words, a knuckle sandwich.
I found no reference to this sandwich being handed out. Can you shed some light, preferably a quote from this holy tome?

Sister, I fear that the Queen of Bitches - ehrm, Beeches Hírilorn, isn't quite of the good reputation you attach to it, it having been the prison of Lúthien when she wanted to quest for her beloved Beren. Therefor I would like to know more about this order you are a member of... Could it be that heresy is being preached among its members? If that would be the case I would seriously urge you to place your allegiance elsewhere..

[dutchie]

Can I move into the halls of mandos maybe visit with aule's wife oh the pleasures I could have in her arms!
One can only move to the Halls of Mandos and meet with Yavanna after death, leyprophet... Do you have a deathwish? Above that, I don't think that Kementári, the Giver of Fruits would be interested in a little roll-over-the-floor with a mere mortal like yourself - may Eru forgive you your blasphemy!!

[dutchie]

Ummmmm... yes? No? 42? I'm afraid that I'm stumped, and as such my answer is...
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
IM GONE THIS SITE HAS SELECTIVE FREE SPEECH BE WARNED YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH AT THIS SITE!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You just fulfilled all of the reasons of existence of this thread!!!

[dutchie]

...which does NOT imply that more questions shouldn't be welcomed...

[leyprophet]

Well at least I could set my eyes on the wonders of yavanna's gardens if ever I could reach valinor. As for the halls of Mandos it is for the elves to reside at death. Being human I wonder if maybe I could still live and explore those great halls where all knowledge of what has been and what shall be resides. Alas all the priests I talk to say the world is no longer flat and Valinor has been removed from mortals reach just as the great land of our ancesters Atlantis.

[dutchie]

It was to the Halls of Mandos that the spirits of Elves and Men were gathered to await their different fates, and so Mandos was given its common name of the Halls of Waiting. After a time, the near-immortal Elves could be re-embodied, and return from the Halls to their kin in Aman. Men had a different fate, a fate which, even among the Lords of Valinor, only Mandos and Manwë truly understood.

I hope this sheds some light on your troubled mind, leyprophet.

[Skygirl]

In other words, a knuckle sandwich.
I found no reference to this sandwich being handed out. Can you shed some light, preferably a quote from this holy tome?

The Lays of Beleriand:Turin Son of Hurin:line 60

Okay, so Morgoth gave Thalion a samich? I wonder what kind...Morgoth talks a lot about fire and stuff...maybe it was actually s'mores. S'mores are sort of sandwichie. Plus they are all chocolatie and sticky and full of marshmallowie goodness.


Sister, I fear that the Queen of Bitches - ehrm, Beeches Hírilorn, isn't quite of the good reputation you attach to it, it having been the prison of Lúthien when she wanted to quest for her beloved Beren. Therefor I would like to know more about this order you are a member of... Could it be that heresy is being preached among its members? If that would be the case I would seriously urge you to place your allegiance elsewhere..

No, no, no. You don't understand. She was sent there because she was a bit of a loon (please see line 1382). Luthien got to live in a tree house. Tree houses are fun. And it was all pretty and silvery and leafy. And it was good for things like pondering and musing. And she got to play with birds and squirrels and she could spin and spinning is good. But I don't get why she decided not to spin dark and evil things but instead she spun her hair. Which is actually frustratingly impossible. It is far easier to spin the fur of the common long haired house cat ( I love cats but I must say there is something dark and evil about them) as opposed to hair, be it human or elvin.

[dutchie]

Ah - but Lútien WAS an elf... Elves can do stuff like that, and STILL fool around with birds and squirrels...

As I have the Dutch translation of your holy tome, it will take some time for me to retrace these words - but I will take your words to be true for the time being.

Sister, how did you become so knowledgeable about these gospels? Did you study them for many years, or was it your order that taught you?

Is your order into fishing with a limited amount of clothing? From your avatar I get the idea that you live in a very harsh and hot climate...

[Skygirl]

Ah - but Lútien WAS an elf... Elves can do stuff like that, and STILL fool around with birds and squirrels...

Okay but she was still a bit of a loon. Granted she was a loon cause her dad was a bit of a prick, but she was still a loon. She must have been a loon if she chose spinning her hair over dark and evil things. I would much rather spin dark and evil things myself. The end results are always far more entertaining.


As I have the Dutch translation of your holy tome, it will take some time for me to retrace these words - but I will take your words to be true for the time being.

Hmmm...do you have the Silmarillion or do you have The Lays of Beleriand? The Silmarillion has a later version which may be the problem.


Sister, how did you become so knowledgeable about these gospels? Did you study them for many years, or was it your order that taught you?

I will be quite honest with you. I only joined the order so I could live in a tree house. My learning came from many years of solitary study of the ancient tomes.


Is your order into fishing with a limited amount of clothing? From your avatar I get the idea that you live in a very harsh and hot climate...

Oh yes it it highly promoted. Fly fishing in limited clothing is actually quite helpful as it tends to distract the men folk leaving all of the good fishies to me.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I still wanna roll in the leaves with Legolas! :hug:

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

I still wanna roll in the leaves with Legolas!
I wanna roll in the hay with Eowyn. She can ride my Rohirrim and thrust her sword in my face ANY day...

[dutchie]

Brother Bill!!!! Éowyn was a princess of the Mark, destined to become the wife of Faramir, prince of Ithilien! She was not some cheap tart with whom you could have a "roll in the hay"... You people are unbelievable... DN, ...a roll in the leaves with Legolas?!? Tsk tsk tsk...

BTW, did you know Gimli, son of Gloin has been spotted some time ago? Here's a little pic of him, after he went to have a haircut...

http://www.scottfeldstein.net/log/archives/mtpics/saddam.jpg

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Brother Bill!!!! Éowyn was a princess of the Mark, destined to become the wife of Faramir, prince of Ithilien! She was not some cheap tart with whom you could have a "roll in the hay"... You people are unbelievable...
I CAN'T HELP MYSELF, DUTCHIE, SON-OF-DUTCHIE'S-FATHER!!! My love of the halflings' leaf has clouded my moral judgment! Faramir can't please her! He couldn't even please Denethor! Faramir just wants to put his arrow in Eowyn's quiver! I can give her soooo much more! Why, if my white hand of Saruman can please ME as much as it has, imagine how much it will please the lovely Eowyn!!!


BTW, did you know Gimli, son of Gloin has been spotted some time ago? Here's a little pic of him, after he went to have a haircut...
Damn! What hole did he just crawl out of?

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Image of Galadriel Spotted!!!

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/04/20/mary.underpass.ap/story.mary.ap.jpg

From cnn.com: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/20/mary.underpass.ap/index.html

I know that some crazy people think that this is the Virgin Mary, but CLEARLY it is a robed Galadriel with her head covered. How can they not see this!!!

[Defiant Noquisi]

DN, ...a roll in the leaves with Legolas?!? Tsk tsk tsk... Okay, then a roll in the forest. I dont see him otherwise attached to anyone else and I know Id do a real good job too. ;)

[Defiant Noquisi]

BTW, did you know Gimli, son of Gloin has been spotted some time ago? Here's a little pic of him, after he went to have a haircut... Wheres the red hair? Dont tell me he had it colored "salt and pepper" on purpose!

[dutchie]

There is a story behind Gimli's hair, DN...

After parting with Legolas, Gimli decided it was time for him to settle down. He found a nice, warm little country, filled with nice, warm little people. Being a dwarf, his natural instincts drove him to dig deep into the land, searching for precious metals. In stead of gold he found a well, a place where 2 billion year old maple syrup came spouting out of the ground...

Gimli found out that a LOT of people very much liked the maple syrup, even more than precious metals and gemstones. So he sold many barrels of the maple syrup to the elves and to men. This brought him much wealth and richess. But - as practically always - greed took the better of him and Gimli, son of Gloin did not share his wealth with his poor people, but stored it all in large warehouses, where he jumped into the money from a diving board and he had three little cousins, Hoo-ee, Doo-ee and Loo-ee... eeehhr... no, that is a different story...

Anyway, Gimli built a large stronghold, a mighty and dark fortress, which he named "Bahag - Dâth". He spread the word to elves and men, that he was equipped with mighty weapons of mass destruction (actually, being so greedy, he did not spend any money on weapons at all, but relied on a well-oiled PR machine, which was run by a nearsighted orc that went by the name of Târuq Hasheesh). He provided evidence of these weapons by the great "onslaught of the innocent" (VI, 3422) by using the horrible weapon called "Fárt", in which 4,000 of his people were killed...

The High Kings of elves and men decided it was time to wage war against Gimli, and so - once more - there was a great battle between elves and a dwarf around the stronghold of Bahag - Dâth. Gimli, son of Gloin - seeing that he was bound to lose the battle - fled to the mountains and dug in, marking the start of the seventh Age. He stayed dug in for almost 666 years, and the lack of sunlight made his hair fade to grey.

Hope this helped to explain the color of Gimli's hair...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

That was the mother of all stories, dutchie, son-of-dutchie's-father...


by using the horrible weapon called "Fárt", in which 4,000 of his people were killed...
I think that this would qualify as a weapon of "ass" destruction...

[Defiant Noquisi]

That is all just way too hilarious!

[dutchie]

That is all just way too hilarious!
well, you wanted to know, and that is the Truth, believe it or not.

You'll never see me back out of an argument, tail between legs, no sir.... If there is not an easy answer, I'll just invent one as we go...

[Skygirl]

There has been concern as of late of a proposed invasion on the city of Boston by descendants of the Lady Galadriel. I fear assimilation has not been kind to them.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/rezgurl1234/swanboat.jpg

[dutchie]

GEEZ... I'm already wearing my reading glasses, but that one is too small, could you repost a larger version?!? Or are the descendants of the Lady Galadriel flesh coloured smurfs?!?

[Skygirl]

GEEZ... I'm already wearing my reading glasses, but that one is too small, could you repost a larger version?!? Or are the descendants of the Lady Galadriel flesh coloured smurfs?!?

look up...better?

[Defiant Noquisi]

Oh that is too good sis! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

[dutchie]

Actually, those aren't the descendants of the lady Galadriel at all, Skygirl. These are infidels, sons and daughters of men, that tried to reach the Western Islands, the Undying Lands inorder to gain immortality.
They were sent back to the lands of Men, but their boat was taken away from them. As a punishment for their blasphemy they were given another ship in return, one that would bring much shame on them when they returned, because people would laugh at them and scorn them for sailing this ridiculous boat, which was propelled by a big magic swan that would only pedal its feet when one of the sailors would engage in sexual acts with it, thus bringing even more shame (and exhaustion) to the infidels who insulted the high Elves like that...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

people would laugh at them and scorn them for sailing this ridiculous boat, which was propelled by a big magic swan that would only pedal its feet when one of the sailors would engage in sexual acts with it
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! That guy looks like he's got a REALLY good grip on the swan plumage! So am I to assume that bestiality is strictly forbidden in the religion of Arda? No Mumakil-dwarf action?

[dutchie]

No, these acts are strictly forbidden.. But brother Bill, you know as well as I do that there are no orc women.. These foul creatures have been known to interact with Mumakils, resulting in hideous creatures like this:

http://lukerpig.com/elephant.jpg

Fortunately, this specimen did not survive the Ent attack on Orthanc...

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

LOL!!! I wonder what an orc-balrog offspring would look like. The opportunities for such a mating abound in Moria. You've got all of those Moria orcs and you've got a balrog who can deftly wield a whip. But for the sake of those poor orcs, I would hope that they have a plentiful supply of flame-retardant Vaseline...

[Defiant Noquisi]

Just give me Legolas and no one gets hurt!

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

The picture below is supposed to be the Tower of Babel... or is it?
I submit that it is, in fact, the city of MINAS TIRITH in Gondor !!!!!
All will kneel before the power of Arda !!!

http://www.ldolphin.org/towerbabel.jpg

Thanks to Mara for posting this pic on the Adam & Eve thread...

[dutchie]

Yes, yes of course it is... How could anyone doubt this?

The REAL tower of Babel is of course this one:
http://www.reisebilder.ch/bilder/ma025-700.jpg