Constantinos Smith
Apr 4th, 2005, 3:15 PM
For those who approve of torchure and capital punishment.
What method of Execution would you use as a last resort. :smokin:
What method of Execution would you use as a last resort. :smokin:
View Full Version : Which is the Method of Execution would you prefer
DarkAce
Apr 4th, 2005, 7:28 PM
Are you asking which method we would want used on ourselves, or which way we would to see people die?
lotrfan55345
Apr 4th, 2005, 8:05 PM
If you mean yourself, I heard it was the least painful way to die. Thats what you mean, right?
dutchie
Apr 5th, 2005, 2:10 AM
I don't approve, so I won't vote.
evilwill
Apr 5th, 2005, 8:56 AM
Let's go over the options...
Lethal Injection: I'd say this has got to be one of the better ways to do it. It's fairly calm and merely like putting them to sleep. There isn't a lot of pain involved, so the unlucky bastard with the sentence isn't completely without luck.
Gas Chamber: This is a pretty unpleasant way to die. Essentially you're choking to death or, you willingly breathe in the gas which is going to be pretty painful when it takes effect. Not a nice way to go.
Guillotine: Quick, effective and painless. A little outdated but relatively painless.
Crucifixion: That has to be one of the worst ways you could ever die. I wouldn't ever consider doing that to anyone.
Firing Squad: Not a bad way to go. A single bullet to the head and it's over.
Beheading (Machete): Crude and messy, you'd hope your executioner has a strong arm. Not a good method IMO.
Burning Alive: Another horrible way to die. Wouldn't consider it.
Bored to death (literally): I'm a little unlcear as what you mean here. You talking about having something bore into you?
Stoning: A very nasty way to go, wouldn't bother with it.
Hanging: Whilst hanging is usually quite effective, there is one problem with it. The victim doesn't always break their neck on the fall, and so they choke to death, which is very unpleasant.
Basically, you want to use a method that is quick and no hastle. There is no need for the victim to suffer, you're already killing them. Methods like lethal injection, firing squad and even beheading (guillotine) are more preferable.
Lethal Injection: I'd say this has got to be one of the better ways to do it. It's fairly calm and merely like putting them to sleep. There isn't a lot of pain involved, so the unlucky bastard with the sentence isn't completely without luck.
Gas Chamber: This is a pretty unpleasant way to die. Essentially you're choking to death or, you willingly breathe in the gas which is going to be pretty painful when it takes effect. Not a nice way to go.
Guillotine: Quick, effective and painless. A little outdated but relatively painless.
Crucifixion: That has to be one of the worst ways you could ever die. I wouldn't ever consider doing that to anyone.
Firing Squad: Not a bad way to go. A single bullet to the head and it's over.
Beheading (Machete): Crude and messy, you'd hope your executioner has a strong arm. Not a good method IMO.
Burning Alive: Another horrible way to die. Wouldn't consider it.
Bored to death (literally): I'm a little unlcear as what you mean here. You talking about having something bore into you?
Stoning: A very nasty way to go, wouldn't bother with it.
Hanging: Whilst hanging is usually quite effective, there is one problem with it. The victim doesn't always break their neck on the fall, and so they choke to death, which is very unpleasant.
Basically, you want to use a method that is quick and no hastle. There is no need for the victim to suffer, you're already killing them. Methods like lethal injection, firing squad and even beheading (guillotine) are more preferable.
dutchie
Apr 5th, 2005, 9:08 AM
You're wrong on the guillotine. During the French revolution some "research" has been done into the time it took for a person to actually die. Some victims were able to stick out their tongue and blink their eyes for a period which lasted sometimes well into a minute. No thanks.
The gas used in the gas chamber is not pretty either. If they'd use carbon monoxide instead, it would be far more humane on the victim. He'd just go to sleep and die.
Let's face it: killing another human being is NEVER pretty, either way you look at it.
The gas used in the gas chamber is not pretty either. If they'd use carbon monoxide instead, it would be far more humane on the victim. He'd just go to sleep and die.
Let's face it: killing another human being is NEVER pretty, either way you look at it.
Mirazh
Apr 5th, 2005, 3:24 PM
You forgot live scalding, life-long crippling, and painful debeaking before being slaughtered to death. ooh wait we're talking about people here not animals.. or are we?
lotrfan55345
Apr 5th, 2005, 3:28 PM
Oh yeah, I don't approve of the death penalty either...
Skippy
Apr 5th, 2005, 6:38 PM
I believe in the concept of the death penalty, however, I do not support the death penaly. Too many innocents have gone to their death because it was misapplied. As far as methods, I notice that electrocution wasn't included...good...that is the most barbaric of all of them. Crucifixion is death by exposure...not pretty. Beheadings aren't instantaneous, the gas chamber is inefficent and not pleasant at all. Lethal injection is in fact painful.
So, my opinion is that the death penalty should be applied as humanely as possible. A sedative should be administered to put the victim into a deep sleep. Then an injection that causes the heart to stop should be administered to effect the killing.
I do not believe that murder is a capital offense. I do believe that aggravated sexual assault (rape with violence or a weapon) as well as child molestation are capital offenses. Neither of these conditions can be cured and the rates of recidivism are very high even with treatment. The crimes themselves have life-long effects on the victims. Rapists have no place in our society.
So, my opinion is that the death penalty should be applied as humanely as possible. A sedative should be administered to put the victim into a deep sleep. Then an injection that causes the heart to stop should be administered to effect the killing.
I do not believe that murder is a capital offense. I do believe that aggravated sexual assault (rape with violence or a weapon) as well as child molestation are capital offenses. Neither of these conditions can be cured and the rates of recidivism are very high even with treatment. The crimes themselves have life-long effects on the victims. Rapists have no place in our society.
evilwill
Apr 6th, 2005, 8:24 AM
You're wrong on the guillotine. During the French revolution some "research" has been done into the time it took for a person to actually die. Some victims were able to stick out their tongue and blink their eyes for a period which lasted sometimes well into a minute. No thanks.
The gas used in the gas chamber is not pretty either. If they'd use carbon monoxide instead, it would be far more humane on the victim. He'd just go to sleep and die.
Let's face it: killing another human being is NEVER pretty, either way you look at it.
Wow, that I didn't know. Although, even if you are still alive, you can't really feel anything since your spine was severed. It would just be weird...
I was under the impression that they did sedate the victim in lethal injections...
The gas used in the gas chamber is not pretty either. If they'd use carbon monoxide instead, it would be far more humane on the victim. He'd just go to sleep and die.
Let's face it: killing another human being is NEVER pretty, either way you look at it.
Wow, that I didn't know. Although, even if you are still alive, you can't really feel anything since your spine was severed. It would just be weird...
I was under the impression that they did sedate the victim in lethal injections...
Skippy
Apr 6th, 2005, 9:39 AM
Wow, that I didn't know. Although, even if you are still alive, you can't really feel anything since your spine was severed. It would just be weird...
I was under the impression that they did sedate the victim in lethal injections...
Actually, the pain would not be felt since the brain would go into shock...and there have also been reports of people speaking after their head was severed.
The sedative that is given during lethal injections is part of the death syrop, it's not for the benefit of the victim.
I was under the impression that they did sedate the victim in lethal injections...
Actually, the pain would not be felt since the brain would go into shock...and there have also been reports of people speaking after their head was severed.
The sedative that is given during lethal injections is part of the death syrop, it's not for the benefit of the victim.
MacRasta
Apr 6th, 2005, 10:00 AM
Some years ago I read something about the guillotine : in some places they took the head and showed them their beheaded body, presumably the brain would still record images some time after the beheading.
Imagine? You see your own body without your head on it.....brrrrrrrrrrrr.......
MacBloodyMess
Imagine? You see your own body without your head on it.....brrrrrrrrrrrr.......
MacBloodyMess
Constantinos Smith
Apr 6th, 2005, 3:13 PM
To clear up some confusion at the beginning of this thread, this is what you would personally want, or want to see used on a violent criminal slated for execution.
I support the death penalty 100%, because these days it's very hard not to find the real criminal, due to forensic evidence, such as skin cells, hair, fingerprints ect. It would be extremely hard to accidently convict an innocent of a violent crime, let alone slated for execution.
I think it doesn't really matter how they kill those bastards. It disturbs me how much i would enjoy witnessing an execution :alcoholic
I guess I'm just emotionally disturbed :crazy: lol
I support the death penalty 100%, because these days it's very hard not to find the real criminal, due to forensic evidence, such as skin cells, hair, fingerprints ect. It would be extremely hard to accidently convict an innocent of a violent crime, let alone slated for execution.
I think it doesn't really matter how they kill those bastards. It disturbs me how much i would enjoy witnessing an execution :alcoholic
I guess I'm just emotionally disturbed :crazy: lol
DarkAce
Apr 6th, 2005, 5:09 PM
Things aren't exactly like they are on CSI or any other 'cop show' Constantinos. Many districts don't even have available to them some of the neat gadgets that we see on CSI and even more the real people generally aren't as bright (nor as attractive) as these actors. Even with evidence, you still need to piece together an adequate theory that supports it, and that's hard shit to do in real crimes.
Especially in rural areas, some of these people aren't even concerned with real facts and are quick to lynch.
You also have the matter of corruption coming into play, so I'd hardly say it's a cut and dry situation.
Especially in rural areas, some of these people aren't even concerned with real facts and are quick to lynch.
You also have the matter of corruption coming into play, so I'd hardly say it's a cut and dry situation.
Constantinos Smith
Apr 6th, 2005, 6:41 PM
Things aren't exactly like they are on CSI or any other 'cop show' Constantinos. Many districts don't even have available to them some of the neat gadgets that we see on CSI and even more the real people generally aren't as bright (nor as attractive) as these actors. Even with evidence, you still need to piece together an adequate theory that supports it, and that's hard shit to do in real crimes.
Especially in rural areas, some of these people aren't even concerned with real facts and are quick to lynch.
You also have the matter of corruption coming into play, so I'd hardly say it's a cut and dry situation.
First I don't watch CSI, or any other cop shows, a majority of them suck. And if anyone has the balls to commit murder, and get away with it is sadly mistaken. Even in rural areas. Murder is a capital offence, and ill be damned is justice isn't served. and the authorities will nab the killer. and about coruption. how could anyone live their life with that on their conscience, they would be responsible for all that take place afterward, they would find a way to solve any crime. In other words DarkAce I am dissapointed, thinkinging on basing my ideas, on a fantasy. that last post was insulting, i am way more intellegent than that, I have a mind of my own, ya know.
Especially in rural areas, some of these people aren't even concerned with real facts and are quick to lynch.
You also have the matter of corruption coming into play, so I'd hardly say it's a cut and dry situation.
First I don't watch CSI, or any other cop shows, a majority of them suck. And if anyone has the balls to commit murder, and get away with it is sadly mistaken. Even in rural areas. Murder is a capital offence, and ill be damned is justice isn't served. and the authorities will nab the killer. and about coruption. how could anyone live their life with that on their conscience, they would be responsible for all that take place afterward, they would find a way to solve any crime. In other words DarkAce I am dissapointed, thinkinging on basing my ideas, on a fantasy. that last post was insulting, i am way more intellegent than that, I have a mind of my own, ya know.
Mezurashi
Apr 6th, 2005, 7:49 PM
my personal choice is a bullet to the brain (if I was being executed or as a means of state retribution, whatever). it seems the fastest and I doubt the brain can continue to function after being blown into repulsive chunks, though I could be wrong (eeew). otherwise the options are pretty grim.
skippy's suggestion about the sleep injection followed by the death injection is remarkably like how they euthanized my previous cat when she got cancer (this was 6 years ago). though I was being savaged by the emotional riptide (it's never fun to put down a pet) the fact that she went easy and fast helped. the immediate problem with this method being used for capital punishment is that there would be those who would object on the grounds that it was Too merciful and that criminals sentenced to die derserved to feel pain, ahh what a world.
something that hasn't been brought up yet is the 'Organ Transplant' situation that has already begun creeping on the horizon. ever since medical science got to the point where complex organ transplants could be performed with a greater than 50-50 chance for survival I've felt a slight paranoia about the whole capital punishment thing. If anyone's read Larry Niven (SF author) and is familiar with his stories dealing with a crime known as 'organlegging' and the effect that medical technology had on his future society, you'll know what I mean.
basically, because it becomes possible for wholesale organ transplants to occur, governments all over the world decide that all sorts of crimes are now punishable by 'death,' which in this case meant being put to sleep and disassembled. his stories, which are just 'what if?' examples anyways, so he hyperbolizes (not a real word I know) that tax evasion and jaywalking become punishable by death.
I wouldn't support a move towards the death penalty in Canada for that reason among others, but morally I am not totally against the concept of a death penalty. it's just that there is no one person, nor group of individuals, that can make decisions of that nature with an absolute guarantee of accuracy and righteousness.
p.s. I just noticed I quoted the wrong name - sorry Skippy, no insult intended.
skippy's suggestion about the sleep injection followed by the death injection is remarkably like how they euthanized my previous cat when she got cancer (this was 6 years ago). though I was being savaged by the emotional riptide (it's never fun to put down a pet) the fact that she went easy and fast helped. the immediate problem with this method being used for capital punishment is that there would be those who would object on the grounds that it was Too merciful and that criminals sentenced to die derserved to feel pain, ahh what a world.
something that hasn't been brought up yet is the 'Organ Transplant' situation that has already begun creeping on the horizon. ever since medical science got to the point where complex organ transplants could be performed with a greater than 50-50 chance for survival I've felt a slight paranoia about the whole capital punishment thing. If anyone's read Larry Niven (SF author) and is familiar with his stories dealing with a crime known as 'organlegging' and the effect that medical technology had on his future society, you'll know what I mean.
basically, because it becomes possible for wholesale organ transplants to occur, governments all over the world decide that all sorts of crimes are now punishable by 'death,' which in this case meant being put to sleep and disassembled. his stories, which are just 'what if?' examples anyways, so he hyperbolizes (not a real word I know) that tax evasion and jaywalking become punishable by death.
I wouldn't support a move towards the death penalty in Canada for that reason among others, but morally I am not totally against the concept of a death penalty. it's just that there is no one person, nor group of individuals, that can make decisions of that nature with an absolute guarantee of accuracy and righteousness.
p.s. I just noticed I quoted the wrong name - sorry Skippy, no insult intended.
Coolio
Apr 6th, 2005, 8:23 PM
Why not make them suffer? does that commited awful crimes, sometimes painless death is too good for them, sometimes they cut people into peaces, and make them suffer a lot, and they just get a painless death.
lotrfan55345
Apr 6th, 2005, 8:37 PM
Why not make them suffer? does that commited awful crimes, sometimes painless death is too good for them, sometimes they cut people into peaces, and make them suffer a lot, and they just get a painless death.
Wow...
It's called human rights. Most people support it... well obviously not you.
Wow...
It's called human rights. Most people support it... well obviously not you.
Constantinos Smith
Apr 7th, 2005, 3:03 PM
HUMAN RIGHTS!
These people being put to death, violated those rights by commiting a capital crime. They should not be entitled to these so-called 'human rights'
EYE FOR AN EYE :guill:
These people being put to death, violated those rights by commiting a capital crime. They should not be entitled to these so-called 'human rights'
EYE FOR AN EYE :guill:
lotrfan55345
Apr 7th, 2005, 3:07 PM
HUMAN RIGHTS!
These people being put to death, violated those rights by commiting a capital crime. They should not be entitled to these so-called 'human rights'
But... their humans. The main/only purpose of the death penalty is to get rid of a person so he/she can no longer harm society. It is not about inficting pain, or atleast I don't think it is...
These people being put to death, violated those rights by commiting a capital crime. They should not be entitled to these so-called 'human rights'
But... their humans. The main/only purpose of the death penalty is to get rid of a person so he/she can no longer harm society. It is not about inficting pain, or atleast I don't think it is...
emperorx1984
Apr 10th, 2005, 12:19 AM
Whoa, bored to death? Literally? Damn, something has to be pretty damn boring!
I chose Lethal Injection, they swab ur arm with alcohol and I don't want to get an infection! Does that make sense?
I chose Lethal Injection, they swab ur arm with alcohol and I don't want to get an infection! Does that make sense?
DarkAce
Apr 10th, 2005, 1:57 PM
First I don't watch CSI, or any other cop shows, a majority of them suck. And if anyone has the balls to commit murder, and get away with it is sadly mistaken. Even in rural areas. Murder is a capital offence, and ill be damned is justice isn't served. and the authorities will nab the killer. and about coruption. how could anyone live their life with that on their conscience, they would be responsible for all that take place afterward, they would find a way to solve any crime. In other words DarkAce I am dissapointed, thinkinging on basing my ideas, on a fantasy. that last post was insulting, i am way more intellegent than that, I have a mind of my own, ya know.
What are you going on about? The point I was bringing up in my post was to illustrate that crimes aren't as easy to solve as you may think. I used an example (CSI) to try and show what many people think goes on figuring that forensic evidence is foolproof, but I tried to show that it neccesarily isn't.
The topic discussion is capital punishment. You want to concentrate on people who murder receiving it, ok fine. What I tried to get across is that the process in apprehending the correct suspect (murderer) isn't always smooth and you might not even have the right person. I than briefly explained why you may not have the right suspect. If you don't even have the right person who commited the crime, than supporting capital punishment would be supporting sending innocent people to their death all in the name of 'justice'.
I brought up corruption to identify corruption in the police force, not sure what you were commenting on about it.
Perhaps your ideas aren't based upon fantasy, but they're becoming more clear that they're based upon senseless conjecture.
Living in a world where it's an eye for an eye and a tooth for an tooth, we'd all end up blind and toothless.
Besides, anyone would realize it's far worst to keep a person alive prolonging their suffering than to give them an easy way out by killing them.
What are you going on about? The point I was bringing up in my post was to illustrate that crimes aren't as easy to solve as you may think. I used an example (CSI) to try and show what many people think goes on figuring that forensic evidence is foolproof, but I tried to show that it neccesarily isn't.
The topic discussion is capital punishment. You want to concentrate on people who murder receiving it, ok fine. What I tried to get across is that the process in apprehending the correct suspect (murderer) isn't always smooth and you might not even have the right person. I than briefly explained why you may not have the right suspect. If you don't even have the right person who commited the crime, than supporting capital punishment would be supporting sending innocent people to their death all in the name of 'justice'.
I brought up corruption to identify corruption in the police force, not sure what you were commenting on about it.
Perhaps your ideas aren't based upon fantasy, but they're becoming more clear that they're based upon senseless conjecture.
Living in a world where it's an eye for an eye and a tooth for an tooth, we'd all end up blind and toothless.
Besides, anyone would realize it's far worst to keep a person alive prolonging their suffering than to give them an easy way out by killing them.
Constantinos Smith
Apr 10th, 2005, 5:38 PM
hmmm. that is a very good point DarkAce, but during the life sentence, there sould be torchure involved. beat the criminal to an inch of his/her life. those bastards don't deserve to live anyways.
It would create more jobs in this country, we need executioners, torchurers, and the guys that diposes of the bodies. and it would lower the countries poverty level too, pay a guy on the street ten bucks per hour, by beating the hell out of the criminal. lol
It would create more jobs in this country, we need executioners, torchurers, and the guys that diposes of the bodies. and it would lower the countries poverty level too, pay a guy on the street ten bucks per hour, by beating the hell out of the criminal. lol
emperorx1984
Apr 10th, 2005, 6:37 PM
"Bring back the good old horrific death penalties! Beheadings, nailing to a cross, boiling in oil, burning at the stake, throw a guy outta a helicopter, launch a guy into a brick wall, the great white shark pit, crocodile lair, lion's den, stoning to death, shooting to death, Gladiator fights, and so forth. . . ."
"Yeah, I know, it sounds a bit crazy, but I bet it might actually decrease crimes if you scare the shit outta everyone thinking about committing a crime. . . . ."
-quotes from George Carlin, ultimate bad ass!
Survey says. . . . .ding ding ding. . . . .I AGREE!
"Yeah, I know, it sounds a bit crazy, but I bet it might actually decrease crimes if you scare the shit outta everyone thinking about committing a crime. . . . ."
-quotes from George Carlin, ultimate bad ass!
Survey says. . . . .ding ding ding. . . . .I AGREE!
Constantinos Smith
Apr 10th, 2005, 7:54 PM
"Bring back the good old horrific death penalties! Beheadings, nailing to a cross, boiling in oil, burning at the stake, throw a guy outta a helicopter, launch a guy into a brick wall, the great white shark pit, crocodile lair, lion's den, stoning to death, shooting to death, Gladiator fights, and so forth. . . ."
"Yeah, I know, it sounds a bit crazy, but I bet it might actually decrease crimes if you scare the shit outta everyone thinking about committing a crime. . . . ."
-quotes from George Carlin, ultimate bad ass!
Survey says. . . . .ding ding ding. . . . .I AGREE!
Today 04:38 PM
- posted by:emperorx1984
Finally someone who agrees with me! yes bring back the horroific death penalties. But only they should have a channel devoted to televised executions. damn that would be my favorite channel. chop there heads off, stone their assess, blugened to death by huge F#^% rocks. I agree with the 'emporer' 100% on this issue! :band:
"Yeah, I know, it sounds a bit crazy, but I bet it might actually decrease crimes if you scare the shit outta everyone thinking about committing a crime. . . . ."
-quotes from George Carlin, ultimate bad ass!
Survey says. . . . .ding ding ding. . . . .I AGREE!
Today 04:38 PM
- posted by:emperorx1984
Finally someone who agrees with me! yes bring back the horroific death penalties. But only they should have a channel devoted to televised executions. damn that would be my favorite channel. chop there heads off, stone their assess, blugened to death by huge F#^% rocks. I agree with the 'emporer' 100% on this issue! :band:
emperorx1984
Apr 10th, 2005, 8:59 PM
"Bring back the good old horrific death penalties! Beheadings, nailing to a cross, boiling in oil, burning at the stake, throw a guy outta a helicopter, launch a guy into a brick wall, the great white shark pit, crocodile lair, lion's den, stoning to death, shooting to death, Gladiator fights, and so forth. . . ."
"Yeah, I know, it sounds a bit crazy, but I bet it might actually decrease crimes if you scare the shit outta everyone thinking about committing a crime. . . . ."
-quotes from George Carlin, ultimate bad ass!
Survey says. . . . .ding ding ding. . . . .I AGREE!
Today 04:38 PM
- posted by:emperorx1984
Finally someone who agrees with me! yes bring back the horroific death penalties. But only they should have a channel devoted to televised executions. damn that would be my favorite channel. chop there heads off, stone their assess, blugened to death by huge F#^% rocks. I agree with the 'emporer' 100% on this issue! :band:
:headbang:
"Yeah, I know, it sounds a bit crazy, but I bet it might actually decrease crimes if you scare the shit outta everyone thinking about committing a crime. . . . ."
-quotes from George Carlin, ultimate bad ass!
Survey says. . . . .ding ding ding. . . . .I AGREE!
Today 04:38 PM
- posted by:emperorx1984
Finally someone who agrees with me! yes bring back the horroific death penalties. But only they should have a channel devoted to televised executions. damn that would be my favorite channel. chop there heads off, stone their assess, blugened to death by huge F#^% rocks. I agree with the 'emporer' 100% on this issue! :band:
:headbang:
dutchie
Apr 11th, 2005, 3:16 AM
I think it doesn't really matter how they kill those bastards. It disturbs me how much i would enjoy witnessing an execution
I guess I'm just emotionally disturbed lol
I don't have to be a psychiatrist to see that you are but an inch away from an abyss in which you would have NO trouble AT ALL to terminate another human being's life, regardless of the fact that life is guilty of any crime. You sir, are on the verge of being a dangerous criminal yourself. And yes, you did make quite a correct self-asessment there. You indeed are emotionally disturbed. Your blood thirst is shocking to say the least.
I guess I'm just emotionally disturbed lol
I don't have to be a psychiatrist to see that you are but an inch away from an abyss in which you would have NO trouble AT ALL to terminate another human being's life, regardless of the fact that life is guilty of any crime. You sir, are on the verge of being a dangerous criminal yourself. And yes, you did make quite a correct self-asessment there. You indeed are emotionally disturbed. Your blood thirst is shocking to say the least.
dutchie
Apr 11th, 2005, 3:18 AM
"Bring back the good old horrific death penalties! Beheadings, nailing to a cross, boiling in oil, burning at the stake, throw a guy outta a helicopter, launch a guy into a brick wall, the great white shark pit, crocodile lair, lion's den, stoning to death, shooting to death, Gladiator fights, and so forth. . . ."
"Yeah, I know, it sounds a bit crazy, but I bet it might actually decrease crimes if you scare the shit outta everyone thinking about committing a crime. . . . ."
-quotes from George Carlin, ultimate bad ass!
Survey says. . . . .ding ding ding. . . . .I AGREE!
And you are no better.
"Yeah, I know, it sounds a bit crazy, but I bet it might actually decrease crimes if you scare the shit outta everyone thinking about committing a crime. . . . ."
-quotes from George Carlin, ultimate bad ass!
Survey says. . . . .ding ding ding. . . . .I AGREE!
And you are no better.
Constantinos Smith
Apr 16th, 2005, 4:27 PM
It's true I'd have absalutely no problem terminating another human beings life, :smokin:
as long as If they commit a capital crime such as mass murder than yes, I'd kill them without a blink of an eye. They would deserve it don't you agree duchie? if not I question your sanity.
as long as If they commit a capital crime such as mass murder than yes, I'd kill them without a blink of an eye. They would deserve it don't you agree duchie? if not I question your sanity.
BlackArrow06
Apr 16th, 2005, 5:11 PM
Well, its good some "good" people are willing to stoop down to the levels of predatory behavior that violent and pscypathic criminals are. Makes me feel much better about the state of sanity of humanity as a whole, because, in reality, I DO believe that, were public/televised executions done, they WOULD have a huge audience.
Anybody disagree?
And, oh yea. Human rights is what seperates us from "them".
Anybody disagree?
And, oh yea. Human rights is what seperates us from "them".
Constantinos Smith
Apr 18th, 2005, 2:40 PM
"Love your neighbor, and fellow man" - Old Testament
-or-
"Kill or be Killed!" - Elias
I agree with the philosohy of that 'Elias' guy, it is a dog eat dog world, but that has nothing to do with methods of executions. but the philosophy of "don't stoop down to their level" is plain ignorance. Because, that is weak talk, that means your not willing to do anything about it yourself, let's just say a school bully throws you into you locker. what do you do? go cry to the principle who doesn't give two shits about you, or get even? personally i'd get even (which includes a trebuchet, but that's a story for later) I sometimes that philosophy is cowardice, not willing to carry out justice as you see fit, since your the judge, jury, executioner on this one.
-or-
"Kill or be Killed!" - Elias
I agree with the philosohy of that 'Elias' guy, it is a dog eat dog world, but that has nothing to do with methods of executions. but the philosophy of "don't stoop down to their level" is plain ignorance. Because, that is weak talk, that means your not willing to do anything about it yourself, let's just say a school bully throws you into you locker. what do you do? go cry to the principle who doesn't give two shits about you, or get even? personally i'd get even (which includes a trebuchet, but that's a story for later) I sometimes that philosophy is cowardice, not willing to carry out justice as you see fit, since your the judge, jury, executioner on this one.
Coolio
Apr 19th, 2005, 6:13 PM
i support human rights, but like someone posted, they violeted human rights when they murdered someone.
dutchie
Apr 20th, 2005, 2:33 AM
It's true I'd have absalutely no problem terminating another human beings life, :smokin:
as long as If they commit a capital crime such as mass murder than yes, I'd kill them without a blink of an eye. They would deserve it don't you agree duchie? if not I question your sanity.
Question it as much as you like.
Too many (black, poor) people have been executed willfully, while being innocent. Ooops... To you they're casualties of war? To me they're fathers of families, MURDERED by the government. It happens, Constantinos... How would YOU feel ten minutes before receiving that lethal injection, KNOWING you were innocent? Just try to place yourself in their shoes for a while, and maybe you'll see how gruesome this system can be.
as long as If they commit a capital crime such as mass murder than yes, I'd kill them without a blink of an eye. They would deserve it don't you agree duchie? if not I question your sanity.
Question it as much as you like.
Too many (black, poor) people have been executed willfully, while being innocent. Ooops... To you they're casualties of war? To me they're fathers of families, MURDERED by the government. It happens, Constantinos... How would YOU feel ten minutes before receiving that lethal injection, KNOWING you were innocent? Just try to place yourself in their shoes for a while, and maybe you'll see how gruesome this system can be.
2cool4stats
Apr 20th, 2005, 7:56 AM
yes bring back the horroific death penalties. But only they should have a channel devoted to televised executions. damn that would be my favorite channel. chop there heads off, stone their assess, blugened to death by huge F#^% rocks.
Are you for real? I seriously highly doubt that if you were to witness a grisly execution in person, that you would remain enthusiastic and optimistic like what you're attempting to show above. Even many families of murdered victims naturally react negatively during executions of perpetrators. The thing is, do you have that experience? Based on your posts in this thread, your computer-gamer/movie-goer type of innocence is quite evident.
i support human rights, but like someone posted, they violeted human rights when they murdered someone.
Support for capital punishment as well as the torturing of criminals (whether innocent or not) are prime examples of hypocrisy. You cannot successfully expect to be a supporter of human rights as well as the death penalty without contradicting yourself. You can however, be a consistent supporter of human rights while simultaneously rejecting prisoner abuse and capital punishment. Capital punishment is the quintessential archetype for hypocrisy.
Are you for real? I seriously highly doubt that if you were to witness a grisly execution in person, that you would remain enthusiastic and optimistic like what you're attempting to show above. Even many families of murdered victims naturally react negatively during executions of perpetrators. The thing is, do you have that experience? Based on your posts in this thread, your computer-gamer/movie-goer type of innocence is quite evident.
i support human rights, but like someone posted, they violeted human rights when they murdered someone.
Support for capital punishment as well as the torturing of criminals (whether innocent or not) are prime examples of hypocrisy. You cannot successfully expect to be a supporter of human rights as well as the death penalty without contradicting yourself. You can however, be a consistent supporter of human rights while simultaneously rejecting prisoner abuse and capital punishment. Capital punishment is the quintessential archetype for hypocrisy.
Coolio
Apr 20th, 2005, 11:54 AM
i dont mean torture as part of the sentence they have, i mean a way of dyeing, some of the prisioners violeted someone elses rights, and they get to die in a humane way. Thats what i mean, i do not support torture as let say, everyday they r whipped 20 times.
Swordsbane
Apr 20th, 2005, 5:08 PM
Are you asking which method we would want used on ourselves, or which way we would to see people die?
That shouldn't make a difference in your answer. What's good for other people should be good for you, otherwise you have a double standard, or you think you're better (or worse) inherently than everyone else.
My answer: lethal injection. There's very little drama in that kind of execution, which is how it should be. Everything else is a candidate for reality TV.
Clarification: I believe in the death penalty, but with our current judicial system of endless appeals, it isn't much of a deterrent. When you're sentenced to be executed, things should move quickly after that. The time for careful thought and delays is before the sentencing. So I would vote no if I could on any death penalty descision right now. If you're axle is broke, changing the tires and wondering why the car doesn't run any better is silly.
That shouldn't make a difference in your answer. What's good for other people should be good for you, otherwise you have a double standard, or you think you're better (or worse) inherently than everyone else.
My answer: lethal injection. There's very little drama in that kind of execution, which is how it should be. Everything else is a candidate for reality TV.
Clarification: I believe in the death penalty, but with our current judicial system of endless appeals, it isn't much of a deterrent. When you're sentenced to be executed, things should move quickly after that. The time for careful thought and delays is before the sentencing. So I would vote no if I could on any death penalty descision right now. If you're axle is broke, changing the tires and wondering why the car doesn't run any better is silly.
Coolio
Apr 20th, 2005, 6:07 PM
bored to death? how? a guy telling very bad jokes 24/7? please explain.
Swordsbane
Apr 21st, 2005, 5:35 AM
Question it as much as you like.
Too many (black, poor) people have been executed willfully, while being innocent. Ooops... To you they're casualties of war? To me they're fathers of families, MURDERED by the government. It happens, Constantinos... How would YOU feel ten minutes before receiving that lethal injection, KNOWING you were innocent? Just try to place yourself in their shoes for a while, and maybe you'll see how gruesome this system can be.
How we punish criminals cannot be dictated by how we feel if an innocent person is convicted of a crime. Believe it or not, I feel as bad as you do about that. The way to fix that is in the trial system and how the police and the D.A.s conduct themselves. The events leading up to a conviction are sometimes suspect, but once someone is convicted, justice should be swift, even if it means execution. If the problem is that we convict innocent people, then that should be the focus of a nationwide investigation and the problem(s) should be corrected at the source. The only thing we should be concerned about after the conviction is what to do with criminals, because right or wrong, we have to treat everyone convicted of a crime as a criminal, not as a potentially innocent person. Otherwise, you raise the specter of guilty murderers and technicalities. If you execute an innocent person, it is a great tragedy. If you free a guilty murderer and he kills again, it will be a great tragedy that might not stop.
If I were being executed and I knew I was innocent, I would certainly feel terrible, but I would rather they killed me than question everyone on death row and possibly let out a real criminal who could take away someone's daughter/son/wife/mother/husband/father, possibly someone I love too.
Too many (black, poor) people have been executed willfully, while being innocent. Ooops... To you they're casualties of war? To me they're fathers of families, MURDERED by the government. It happens, Constantinos... How would YOU feel ten minutes before receiving that lethal injection, KNOWING you were innocent? Just try to place yourself in their shoes for a while, and maybe you'll see how gruesome this system can be.
How we punish criminals cannot be dictated by how we feel if an innocent person is convicted of a crime. Believe it or not, I feel as bad as you do about that. The way to fix that is in the trial system and how the police and the D.A.s conduct themselves. The events leading up to a conviction are sometimes suspect, but once someone is convicted, justice should be swift, even if it means execution. If the problem is that we convict innocent people, then that should be the focus of a nationwide investigation and the problem(s) should be corrected at the source. The only thing we should be concerned about after the conviction is what to do with criminals, because right or wrong, we have to treat everyone convicted of a crime as a criminal, not as a potentially innocent person. Otherwise, you raise the specter of guilty murderers and technicalities. If you execute an innocent person, it is a great tragedy. If you free a guilty murderer and he kills again, it will be a great tragedy that might not stop.
If I were being executed and I knew I was innocent, I would certainly feel terrible, but I would rather they killed me than question everyone on death row and possibly let out a real criminal who could take away someone's daughter/son/wife/mother/husband/father, possibly someone I love too.
dutchie
Apr 21st, 2005, 7:21 AM
Your whole argument could be replaced by life long inprisonment in stead of capital punishment, couldn't it? Why kill the (hopefully guilty) perp, when you can keep him off the streets indefinitely? Taking another human's life is just plain barbaric, and in fact makes society stoop to the same level as the criminal.
You use the word "swift"... Is this why people have to wait 10 to 20 years before getting executed eventually? THAT is the horror of the death penalty: the WAITING.
You use the word "swift"... Is this why people have to wait 10 to 20 years before getting executed eventually? THAT is the horror of the death penalty: the WAITING.
Swordsbane
Apr 21st, 2005, 7:41 AM
Your whole argument could be replaced by life long inprisonment in stead of capital punishment, couldn't it? Why kill the (hopefully guilty) perp, when you can keep him off the streets indefinitely? Taking another human's life is just plain barbaric, and in fact makes society stoop to the same level as the criminal.
1) You can't guarantee a criminal won't escape, or find a loophole in the law to get released. I know it doesn't happen very often, but if it happens once, how about you tell the family of the next victim why he got out to kill again, and even if you could keep them locked up forever, that brings me to:
2) you just have to keep building prisons, and he's taking up a spot that could be used by a criminal that might be rehabilitated, which is what prisons are SUPPOSED to be for. Go ahead, tell me that prison overcrowding has no effect on sentencing.
You use the word "swift"... Is this why people have to wait 10 to 20 years before getting executed eventually? THAT is the horror of the death penalty: the WAITING.
Read everything I wrote. I couldn't agree with you more. As I stated, I'm for the death penalty, but not as it is now with runaway appeals that take the deterrent factor out of it. Put the 'swift' back into swift justice and you will find me for the death penalty. It will make our justice system more interested in convicting the right people and a convicted murderer will NEVER kill again, and if someday I am convicted of a crime I didn't commit and sentenced to death, the greatest tragedy I can think of is not that I will die, but that some misguided soul will use me as ammunition to try to take down the death penalty.
1) You can't guarantee a criminal won't escape, or find a loophole in the law to get released. I know it doesn't happen very often, but if it happens once, how about you tell the family of the next victim why he got out to kill again, and even if you could keep them locked up forever, that brings me to:
2) you just have to keep building prisons, and he's taking up a spot that could be used by a criminal that might be rehabilitated, which is what prisons are SUPPOSED to be for. Go ahead, tell me that prison overcrowding has no effect on sentencing.
You use the word "swift"... Is this why people have to wait 10 to 20 years before getting executed eventually? THAT is the horror of the death penalty: the WAITING.
Read everything I wrote. I couldn't agree with you more. As I stated, I'm for the death penalty, but not as it is now with runaway appeals that take the deterrent factor out of it. Put the 'swift' back into swift justice and you will find me for the death penalty. It will make our justice system more interested in convicting the right people and a convicted murderer will NEVER kill again, and if someday I am convicted of a crime I didn't commit and sentenced to death, the greatest tragedy I can think of is not that I will die, but that some misguided soul will use me as ammunition to try to take down the death penalty.
dutchie
Apr 21st, 2005, 8:30 AM
I read your post entirely. Did you do the same with mine?
Taking another human's life is just plain barbaric, and in fact makes society stoop to the same level as the criminal.
Why don't we in the Netherlands have to keep build prisons (as you say) while our country has 422 people living on a square kilometer (that's a whole lot more than in the USA)?!? WE don't need capital punishment. Now maybe the USA should begin to do some sort of introspection, based upon that notion. Tackle the problem at the root, not at the top.
Taking another human's life is just plain barbaric, and in fact makes society stoop to the same level as the criminal.
Why don't we in the Netherlands have to keep build prisons (as you say) while our country has 422 people living on a square kilometer (that's a whole lot more than in the USA)?!? WE don't need capital punishment. Now maybe the USA should begin to do some sort of introspection, based upon that notion. Tackle the problem at the root, not at the top.
Swordsbane
Apr 21st, 2005, 10:37 AM
I read your post entirely. Did you do the same with mine?
Yes.
Why don't we in the Netherlands have to keep build prisons (as you say) while our country has 422 people living on a square kilometer (that's a whole lot more than in the USA)?!? WE don't need capital punishment. Now maybe the USA should begin to do some sort of introspection, based upon that notion. Tackle the problem at the root, not at the top.
The United States is not the Netherlands. It would be nice if we were all the same, had all the same cultural history and sensibilities and values, but we don't, and saying that what works for the Netherlands works for the USA is a bit of folly, don't you think? That having been said, the US needs a LOT of introspection, especially in the justice system. The statistics for violent crime do not seem to follow the presence or lack of punishment laws in various countries around the world. The reason is because there are other things involved. I bet if you take a country that rigorously enforces capital punishment and remove that punishment, then crime will go up. It doesn't track in the US because it doesn't have any deterrence factor. The appeals process (as it is used now) hamstrings any sort of severe punishment by second-guessing court decisions way too often. And because of that, if it was applied with the appropriate haste and less hand-wringin, I believe it would be tremendously effective in deterring crime and we wouldn't have to execute so many.
Using a country that has no capital punishment as an excuse for removing it for another country doesn't work. Capital punishment is first a moral choics: Is this what we are willing to do to our criminals (innocent or guilty), and secondly an academic question; Will it be effective in the place we are considering using it? I'm perfectly willing to argue the moral implications of executing criminals, but with respect to debating the effectiveness of that, if you face the possibility of death for doing something, you WILL be less inclined to do it than if you did not face death.
I believe that for our society in the United States it is 'moral' to execute people who are convicted of murder. I do not believe that it will be effective because of how the justice system is being used today. I believe it CAN be effective if used properly, swiftly and impartially. However morally repugnent it may be in the Netherlands, unless your violent crime rate is already zero, it WILL reduce crime. It's just not worth killing criminals to stop criminals killing, not for the Netherlands.
It all comes down to how much is a life worth. No, you can't put a price tag on it, but you can set limits. Obviously for 99% of the planet, if soldiers invade your country, it's okay to kill them, or at least necessary. If someone commits murder and then is killed in a bus accident we don't experience as much sense of grief than we do when a child dies in a fire. Some of us don't have any sympathy for criminals. I do, just not as much as for their victims, and if killing a criminal stops him from comitting murder a second time AND may prevent others from resorting to murder, then I consider that worth it. It's even worth my life.
Yes.
Why don't we in the Netherlands have to keep build prisons (as you say) while our country has 422 people living on a square kilometer (that's a whole lot more than in the USA)?!? WE don't need capital punishment. Now maybe the USA should begin to do some sort of introspection, based upon that notion. Tackle the problem at the root, not at the top.
The United States is not the Netherlands. It would be nice if we were all the same, had all the same cultural history and sensibilities and values, but we don't, and saying that what works for the Netherlands works for the USA is a bit of folly, don't you think? That having been said, the US needs a LOT of introspection, especially in the justice system. The statistics for violent crime do not seem to follow the presence or lack of punishment laws in various countries around the world. The reason is because there are other things involved. I bet if you take a country that rigorously enforces capital punishment and remove that punishment, then crime will go up. It doesn't track in the US because it doesn't have any deterrence factor. The appeals process (as it is used now) hamstrings any sort of severe punishment by second-guessing court decisions way too often. And because of that, if it was applied with the appropriate haste and less hand-wringin, I believe it would be tremendously effective in deterring crime and we wouldn't have to execute so many.
Using a country that has no capital punishment as an excuse for removing it for another country doesn't work. Capital punishment is first a moral choics: Is this what we are willing to do to our criminals (innocent or guilty), and secondly an academic question; Will it be effective in the place we are considering using it? I'm perfectly willing to argue the moral implications of executing criminals, but with respect to debating the effectiveness of that, if you face the possibility of death for doing something, you WILL be less inclined to do it than if you did not face death.
I believe that for our society in the United States it is 'moral' to execute people who are convicted of murder. I do not believe that it will be effective because of how the justice system is being used today. I believe it CAN be effective if used properly, swiftly and impartially. However morally repugnent it may be in the Netherlands, unless your violent crime rate is already zero, it WILL reduce crime. It's just not worth killing criminals to stop criminals killing, not for the Netherlands.
It all comes down to how much is a life worth. No, you can't put a price tag on it, but you can set limits. Obviously for 99% of the planet, if soldiers invade your country, it's okay to kill them, or at least necessary. If someone commits murder and then is killed in a bus accident we don't experience as much sense of grief than we do when a child dies in a fire. Some of us don't have any sympathy for criminals. I do, just not as much as for their victims, and if killing a criminal stops him from comitting murder a second time AND may prevent others from resorting to murder, then I consider that worth it. It's even worth my life.
Ghost
May 8th, 2005, 3:25 PM
Capital Punishment should be swift. brutal and public. No better deterrant to crime.
Criminals should lose their rights as soon as the commit a crime. Those who commit crimes worthy of life inprisonment or death should have no rights, period.
The problem with keeping them alive for life inprisonment is that (1) the taxpayers have to pay for it, and (2) prisons will get too crowded.
How would feel to pay taxes to keep alive the perp who raped/murdered/tortured your wife/sister/brother/husband/wife/family member/best friend?
With no ultimate penalty, whats the deterrant?
If the death penalty must be removed, make the sentance ver hard labor. 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. No mail, phone, or other luxeries whatsoever. Solitary confinement at night. Just enough food and water to keep them healthy.
Bottom line is, actions have consequences. If you commit criminal actions against another human being, you better be aware of the consequences and the consequences need to be harsh enough to make you think hard about committing that crime.
Capital punishment is not a violation of human rights. It is a consequence to your actions.
Criminals should lose their rights as soon as the commit a crime. Those who commit crimes worthy of life inprisonment or death should have no rights, period.
The problem with keeping them alive for life inprisonment is that (1) the taxpayers have to pay for it, and (2) prisons will get too crowded.
How would feel to pay taxes to keep alive the perp who raped/murdered/tortured your wife/sister/brother/husband/wife/family member/best friend?
With no ultimate penalty, whats the deterrant?
If the death penalty must be removed, make the sentance ver hard labor. 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. No mail, phone, or other luxeries whatsoever. Solitary confinement at night. Just enough food and water to keep them healthy.
Bottom line is, actions have consequences. If you commit criminal actions against another human being, you better be aware of the consequences and the consequences need to be harsh enough to make you think hard about committing that crime.
Capital punishment is not a violation of human rights. It is a consequence to your actions.
Constantinos Smith
May 10th, 2005, 11:57 AM
Very well put Ghost, many intresting points you brought up. I have to add another though... Food and water are always at a prisoners disposale, even on death row, thats also payed for by taxes that come out of OUR wallets, If i had a choice i would never give a perp a damn dime of my money, no way and neither should anyone else that pays taxes. Why should WE keep them alive for doing something thats unforgiveable to society.
Another thing free healthcare in prison complexes, and as far as i know they get free perscription drugs. innocent eldarly people are constantly bitching about MediCare or whatever its called. and the criminals are getting them for free, actually were paying for them through taxes and possibly insurance. I say shoot em.
Plus how would one rehabilitate a murderer, that concept is beyond me, explain please.
Another thing free healthcare in prison complexes, and as far as i know they get free perscription drugs. innocent eldarly people are constantly bitching about MediCare or whatever its called. and the criminals are getting them for free, actually were paying for them through taxes and possibly insurance. I say shoot em.
Plus how would one rehabilitate a murderer, that concept is beyond me, explain please.
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