Top 10 Reasons to NOT Join The Service... [Archive]

liberdave

Jun 2nd, 2005, 4:27 AM

Allright, I have deemed it necessary to move a conversation me and DontBeAfraid started in another thread into here...

You have no idea what boot camp is for so dont pretend you do.
Really? You think so? Why then, must you go through months of gruelling physical and mental training? I think to prepare you for things that would not normally happen to you outside of the service. Like killing a child with your barehands. Under no circumstance, as a civilian, under normal circumstances, would any situation call for killing a child with your bare hands. However, in the service I could easily bring up a scenario where this knowledge of warfare rings nessecary. BUT, In order to make you prepare for things that you would normally NOT do as a civy, they must remove your prior morals and ethics. Now in order to do that, they must tear down ALL of you. (Wether or not they succed seems to lay on the individual) Then instilling you with THIER brand of morals and ethics. Now the type of morals and ethics they do instill could fill another thread.

Discuss it here please, as this is in relation to what pissed me off in the first place.
What? The robot thing? Answer the question above and then hopefully the answer to this becomes self-evident.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 2nd, 2005, 4:48 AM

Please name this situation. It is not something that I trained for during basic( you know, the training you know nothing about). The likelyhood of needing to kill a child with you bare hands is about as likely to arise in civilian life as it is in the military.... There are realistic situations you could have chosen and if you scaled it back a bit your assertion might not be laughable.

They dont teach you to be robots they teach you that WHILE you are serving you are not the most important person on earth(something your parents should have taught you a long time ago anyways)and that you are part of a team. You are taught NOT to obey unethical or illegal orders. Guess how you determine what is unethical or illegal.... what the hell Ill tell you: your past expirences, most of which are probably from your life before you joined the military. Thats your civilian life.

But just for fun lets hear what morals and ethics you think they instill(I remember the 7 one hour ethics/duty classes I sat through in a half awake stuper during basic but I want to know what kind of silly notions you have.)

dutchie

Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:33 AM

Just a little reminder...

I will be monitoring this thread closely. Any posting that does not comply with forum rules will be edited or deleted. Keep it civil. Please (see? I'm being friendly and polite!)..

nrj

Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:01 AM

They dont teach you to be robots they teach you that WHILE you are serving you are not the most important person on earth(something your parents should have taught you a long time ago anyways)and that you are part of a team. You are taught NOT to obey unethical or illegal orders. Guess how you determine what is unethical or illegal.... what the hell Ill tell you: your past expirences, most of which are probably from your life before you joined the military. Thats your civilian life.

I think it's unethical to kill people who have another opinion then you. ex) Your "enemy" dont want his country invaded, but you want it invaded. It is the same thing, don't say it aint!

Mezurashi

Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:18 AM

i'd comment but the anti-war and anti-military elements in this group have begun exercising their overrides ... I am not a warmonger but I am also not a reactive, knee jerk pacifist and I see a sort of 'herd' mentality forming around certain people who have a negative and not based on experience version of reality as it deals with the military.

really, it's like letting born-again White Christians run an abortion clinic.

have fun being over-riding...

DontBeAfraid

Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:41 AM

nrj your comment has nothing to do with the topic. Any more like it and you will make my ignore list.....

nrj

Jun 2nd, 2005, 8:34 AM

nrj your comment has nothing to do with the topic. Any more like it and you will make my ignore list.....

All right, this is a duel between you two, so i'll just shut up.

Seeker

Jun 2nd, 2005, 8:53 AM

Dontbeafraid,
What did the military teach you in those 7 sessions of ethics? I'm really not coming in on either side of this arguement, I just would like some more information. Thanks for the help.

liberdave

Jun 2nd, 2005, 12:10 PM

Ok first off...
You got it Dutchie, I will keep it civil, I see name calling as a weakness...
Second off...
I do not claim myself a pacifist, I perfectly see that sometimes you have to crack skulls to get shit done. However, I think the way the government uses coercion, and patriotism as a tool to a)get recruits b)sell their partisan agendas and c)fleece America constitutes some of the biggest crimes and injustices seen since Gobbles.
Third...

Please name this situation.
Ok... say umm... (thought experiment) a child walks into your tent/room/whatever with a bomb tied to their back, you do not have you gun handy, and the only way to save yourself means you have to enter hand to hand combat with a child.
Look, I don't hate you DontBeAfraid I hate the above three traits of the gov't. My capabilities nor desire doesn't encompass a willingness to argue inherent right or wrong over military service, BUT I made the point that PT changes you. You can not deny that.

You are taught NOT to obey unethical or illegal orders.
Umm... Sorry man, but I know "all is fair in war". Sometimes you have break some eggs to make an omelette. Now wether or not you would break ethics in the field of combat, I cant answer. But, given any combat situation and the severity thereof, I can justfuly say ethics get thrown out. Now I do know the forces don't tolerate illegal activities but... Everyone dose something illegal, how often do you speed? Legalities mean little when your life is on the line. And as far as your classes, that's assume. But, it's kinda like breaking your leg and teaching you how to walk with a crutch.
This conversation stemmed from the fact that polititians often want you to "support the troops" when in fact, they want you to support their war act or whatever. It equates to Starbucks adding shit into their coffee and starting the slogan, "What about our employees, they are your sons/daughters. Please support Starbucks and their decision to add shit to their coffee!"

your past expirences, most of which are probably from your life before you joined the military.
I would assume that most people that join the military already need some sort of guidance and direction in their life. I mean, if you a real option of yours includes joining the military, that usually means most other options became unavailable. All of the people I know who enlisted did so as a last resort. Now I wont equate social or financial status and morality and ethics. But when the goin gets tough, the tough get goin.

something your parents should have taught you a long time ago anyways
Thats another issue, You backed my argument about individualism.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 2nd, 2005, 4:31 PM

you child scenario is not a possibility. The only time I would be asleep in a tent without a gun is deep within a well fortified position(ie stateside). try again.

PT made me more fit, so ya it changed me. Im going to assume you used 'PT' wrong because its not a bad thing at all.

Now tell me about the legalities of combat. Everyone who is leaving the states is issued ROE cards which let you know exactly how much force you can use, when you can use it and who you can use it on. If you break the ROE you are in violation of the law. In any situation, civilian or military, its legal to defend your life.

This conversation stemmed from you knocking soldiers on memorial day. It stemmed from you calling them mindless idiot robots with no control over their own actions on a day you are supposed to remember the fallen. I should have put you on ignore but I got roped in by a troll.

seeker each class followed the same pattern, they would pick a buzz phrase like say "selfless service" or "personal responsibility" and have that up on a wall in a large classroom. You would go in and be seated then spend the next hour trying to stay awake while they went over the definition of that word. When you were caught with your eyes closed or your head bobbing you were made to do some "PT" then asked if you could recite what had been said so far. When you couldnt recite it you were made to do some more PT. The classes were more about filling time and the drill sargents having fun while making sleepy privates do pushups and flutter kicks then they were about trying to reinstill morals/ethics.

edit: liberdave maybe you have friends that joined and came back from basic acting "louder"..... thats happens with some of them but it goes away after a short while. They are the same people they were before.

Zyztem

Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:11 PM

Umm... Sorry man, but I know "all is fair in war". Sometimes you have break some eggs to make an omelette. Now wether or not you would break ethics in the field of combat, I cant answer. But, given any combat situation and the severity thereof, I can justfuly say ethics get thrown out. Now I do know the forces don't tolerate illegal activities but... Everyone dose something illegal, how often do you speed? Legalities mean little when your life is on the line. And as far as your classes, that's assume. But, it's kinda like breaking your leg and teaching you how to walk with a crutch.

I don't know enough about y'all's other conversation, but I just wanted to jump in and agree with this part. It's called "situational ethics." Regardless of whatever beliefs a person has, a person will tend to do what is necessary to survive. The crappy part about situational ethics is that they can be Monday-morning quarterbacked. Unless a person has been in a particular situation, no one can definitively say "I would've done X, Y or Z." When a person overrides certain of those tendencies for the sake of another, we call them heros.

liberdave

Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:12 PM

you child scenario is not a possibility. The only time I would be asleep in a tent without a gun is deep within a well fortified position(ie stateside). try again.Right, but I still created a scenario that hasn't been dealt with...

PT made me more fit, so ya it changed me.You can not honestly say you felt small changes in habits? Do you still make your bed? (or worse, feel a need to but still don't?)

Now tell me about the legalities of combat. Everyone who is leaving the states is issued ROE cards which let you know exactly how much force you can use, when you can use it and who you can use it on.
right. In a perfect world nobody does illegal drugs, speeds, or drinks and drives and everyone doesn't violate their ROE cards. Honestly, they don't. Really. Not at all.
In any situation, civilian or military, its legal to defend your life.
But me defending my life and killing someone by accident and you defending your life and killing someone constitutes two differing realities. I have never received state mandated martial combat training, whiles you have (I assume you have, by the context of your statements.)

This conversation stemmed from you knocking soldiers on memorial day.I admit, I abandoned logic on my first post... (hence the title rant). But I stick to all I said.

It stemmed from you calling them mindless idiot robots with no control over their own actions on a day you are supposed to remember the fallen. If you go back and re-read the post, they all attack the government, and I use statements like "all the ones I have met"
I should have put you on ignore but I got roped in by a troll.And risk missing out on stimulating coversation?

edit: liberdave maybe you have friends that joined and came back from basic acting "louder"..... thats happens with some of them but it goes away after a short while. They are the same people they were before.I hope this comes true. And I feel that minute things have changed about them. Most of this stems from two friends of mine. Both went Marine Corp. pre-9/11. The first one came out with an exitable air about them. His head seemed a little more tighter then pre-enlist. He had that Illogical Stare about him and I could tell his thought process was radically different. Now I did see him while he was fresh of the boat but after that first encounter I decided to pursue him no more. The second one was worse, Me and him used to run the streets at night and pick fights while drunk, but when he came back, he had that thousand yard stare. He had seen action in Iraq as a tank driver or gunner. *edit*I had an entire account lined up but decided against posting on account that I don't want to encriminate him if what he did was illegal.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:30 PM

In a perfect world nobody does illegal drugs, speeds, or drinks and drives and everyone doesn't violate their ROE cards. Honestly, they don't. Really. Not at all.

Civilians are more likely to break the law than military personel.

You can not honestly say you felt small changes in habits? Do you still make your bed? (or worse, feel a need to but still don't?)
PT stands for physical training.... but I know what you are getting at. When I was in the army I slept on top of a made bed so that I wouldnt have to remake it, only tighten it up a little. I didnt tighten it up becuase they brainwashed me into thinking that the bed had to be perfect I did it because of the consequences for not doing it. Thats the motivation most have for everything they do while in the military. They arent warmongering robots they are people with steep consequences for failure. Understand this.(not a question). The only habit that changed for me is that I tend to eat too fast now. I dont shave everyday, I leave my clothes in the dryer instead of hanging them up, I still sleep all day if I can, I cram the garbage can too full so I dont have to take it out. All these things changed in the service only to avoid consequences.

Killing is killing liberdave. If you do it, if I do it, if your friends do it; in the end someone or many are dead. Military personel should be better at it than civilians so that the civilians dont have to.

I have no problem with attacking the government. The government chooses what the soldiers are to do and they are elected by the people. If you dont like the military or what they do you cant blame them you can only blame yourself.

liberdave

Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:59 PM

Civilians are more likely to break the law than military personel. Have any proof? I say they break the law the same amount.

I have no problem with attacking the government. The government chooses what the soldiers are to do and they are elected by the people. If you dont like the military or what they do you cant blame them you can only blame yourself.That makes absolutely no sense. Really. Look at this. Why do I need to blame myself for something I did'nt condone in the first palce? I voted, but not for Bush. Actually, I think I find myself included in the few individuals who CAN bitch. I say, DON'T support the troops if you dont support the govt. If you do, you exhibit hypocritism.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 3rd, 2005, 5:40 AM

I found a few sites about domestic violence but most of my google searches came up pro guns.

Dont support the troops? They do what the collective asks of them. We are the collective. You can support the troops while not supporting the war. You think they are all mindless zombies who love war? Fuck off. You are a complete tool and I dont care if this thread gets closed. You know nothing of the military so quit posting as if you do.

Edge

Jun 3rd, 2005, 6:43 AM

DBA ignore him. This is one self-righteous poster who doesn't understand how the world works and has a bad taste in music. There is no room for redemption.

liberdave

Jun 5th, 2005, 2:34 AM

Dont support the troops? They do what the collective asks of them. I alone comprise no collective...

We are the collective. What if I do not want inclusion?
You can support the troops while not supporting the war. Can you show my how you think so?
You think they are all mindless zombies who love war?I thought we covered this...
You are a complete tool and I dont care if this thread gets closed.Why? I think this runs deeper...
You know nothing of the military so quit posting as if you do.Wow, can't debate? If you care to not continue this, then stop responding. But until you can counter my points with intelligent rebuttal we make no progress. Articulation with cuss words gets you very little unless you look for an aggressive response. I had hoped I would get a better argument than "F*%K OFF!"

This is one self-righteous poster who doesn't understand how the world works Well... then how DO it work? Maybe you would like to pick up where DBA left off?

has a bad taste in music. WOW, man you got me there. When you can't beat a man with logic and reason, you just attack his taste in music... You're cold blooded Edge... cooooold blooded.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 5th, 2005, 3:08 AM

Jesus Christ I love this, and I love you Liber

I see where you're coming from. When you think about it, all that 'training' of soldiers is for essentially breaking down who you were as a civilian and turning you into as much of a 'machine' as possible.

If you look at the reasons for war the situation get's even more ridiculus since the majority of wars (especially circa the last 100 years) were started over a)trade routes b)resources or c)the impending threat that a or b may be taken away by another group. So these wars are started, and who fights in them? Mostly poor people, mostly black, because they have no other choices (as pointed out earlier). I have no sympathy for people who voluntarily join the army.

And my credentials, DBA will ask, we'll, my grandfather (who is still alive) was in WWII as infantry, fighting for the Germans against the Ruskies. He was forced into it at 16, and was captured in Russia after 2 years, spent 2 years in a Russian PoW camp. Of course, he doesn't support war in any way, especially since he had no choice.

Also, I have several friends (1 of whom is now an officer in the national guard) and the others are still in training. Thier reason, you guessed it, no other choices.

One more comment on the military before I leave (i could have gone on for pages), as always, I will quote the great George Carlin on this one:

"Muhammid Ali was drafted into the military, now, before they wanted him to join he had a strange job, beating people up. But he didn't want to kill people in war, he was content with beating them up. Now, the US military didn't like that he didn't want to kill people so they revoked his boxing licence. Essentially, they were saying 'if you won't kill 'em, we won't let you beat 'em up.' "

DontBeAfraid

Jun 5th, 2005, 6:14 AM

liber you are ignored. If you dont want to be part of the collective the GET THE FUCK OUT. If you meant that you are unhappy with the collective then please remember that as a part of the collective YOU have the power to help change it.

So FR If you dont like the war you feel ok holding the soldiers responsible? Holding the soldiers responsible for the decisions of the leaders you helped elect?

nrj

Jun 5th, 2005, 7:05 AM

The soldiers are carrying out the leaders orders, aren't they? I dont care if I will appear on your ignore list or not DBA, but who is it that carry out the politicians wishes? The soldiers. And who is pulling the trigger and killing people in the countries invaded? Not Bush, not the politicians, but the soldiers. I have no sympathy for men fighting for something their goverment see as right, but I do have sympathy for the men dying at the french revolution, because they wanted a more liberal France. The men dying at the streets of Kyoto, because they wanted a free Japan. The men who died storming Kalmar, because they wanted an independent Sweden. Those men I would send a greatfull thought, but, the men invading Iraq and dying, I have no sympathy for. Call me cold blooded, but thats me.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 5th, 2005, 11:07 AM

So when you hit your thumb with a hammer you blame the hammer right?

nrj

Jun 5th, 2005, 11:11 AM

So when you hit your thumb with a hammer you blame the hammer right?

No, the one wielding the hammer.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 5th, 2005, 11:52 AM

But you just said you blame the tool when its not properly used. NOW you are ignored.

dutchie

Jun 5th, 2005, 12:54 PM

I don't want to join the military too, for lots of reasons - of which my age is the least important one... Am I on ignore now too?

One question - am I in the USA, when I post on this board? I thought not... why is everone doing his very best to having me believe I am...

nrj

Jun 5th, 2005, 1:06 PM

But you just said you blame the tool when its not properly used. NOW you are ignored.

No, I have never stated that. Soldiers are not tools. They have their own free will, but they use their tools, the M-16 and the Glock, to kill people. Thus, the soldiers are the actuall wielders of the tools, am I wrong?

40oz

Jun 5th, 2005, 1:14 PM

I haven't posted in a long while but I have to chime in here. Boot camp has many beneficial purposes with none of them being to train you to kill a child. In boot camp you learn (to the recruit at the time it just seems like allot of screaming and torture) several character traits that will be with you for ever.
1) Loyalty
Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. constitution, the Army, and other soldiers.
Be loyal to the nation and its heritage.
2) Duty
Fulfill your obligations.
Accept responsibility for your own actions and those entrusted to your care.
Find opportunities to improve oneself for the good of the group.
3) Respect
Rely upon the golden rule.
How we consider others reflects upon each of us, both personally and as a professional organization.
4) Selfless Service
Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
Selfless service leads to organizational teamwork and encompasses discipline, self-control and faith in the system.
5) Honor
Live up to all the Army values.
6) Integrity
Do what is right, legally and morally.
Be willing to do what is right even when no one is looking.
It is our "moral compass" an inner voice
7) Personal Courage
Our ability to face fear, danger, or adversity, both physical and moral courage.

None of these you possess, which allows you to make such a ridiculous statement about something you have never done. Most importantly basic training is designed to put the individual recruit through stress comparable to combat. Actually boot camp is designed to be MORE stressful the combat. So when and if you deploy to a hot zone you will be familiar and can deal with the stress. Leave it to a civilian with obscured ideology to say that boot camp is so robot soldiers can kill children or kill adults for that matter.

nrj

Jun 5th, 2005, 2:06 PM

Wow... and I thought you were trained to be soldiers, you know those who kill people when a politician tells them to.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 5th, 2005, 2:07 PM

Dutchie they arent on ignore for not wanting to be in the military..... 99%of the people in the military DONT want to be in the military. I have them on ignore because explicitly stated that they are willing to blame soldiers for the decisions of others, for the decisions of men that they helped to empower.

Dutchie does everyone bitch at you and others when you post in dutch or german? I thought not. This board is comprised of people from many nations. Like it or not, the US effects most of the world in one way or another. If you are not interested in posts about US politics/events/whatever(we both know you are ;) ) then you dont HAVE to read them. Im not quite sure what you want dutchie... Do you want there to be no posts that pertain only to the US? Or only to one specific nation? Must all posts be so broad that anyone in the world can identify with them? If you know of some interesting dutch news then let the rest of us know about it eh.

40oz... verbatim makes me smile.

40oz

Jun 8th, 2005, 3:20 AM

Wow... and I thought you were trained to be soldiers, you know those who kill people when a politician tells them to.

Even if this were the case you dont have privilege to say anything negative at all regarding US Soldiers. In your very own words you said it is the politician that tell them "kill". So it is the politician you should be harassing NOT the US soldier risking his or her life in a foreign land because they had the courage to defend the United States. You are a coward to talk about a situation, and you don't even know how the machine works. Its people like you that spit on vietnam vets. The amount of vietnam vets that volunteered vs drafted was more then likely warped towards draft (dont know the stats but I'd bet this is the case) and yet your kind still hated them for being forced to go to war. Pathetic. You got nothing better to do then sit at you computer and talk shit about the countries only defense? I forgot the guys name on fox news but he was talking to a nut case just like you. He was anti American soldier talking mad shit. The host said "you don't have to approve of the war, I don't even approve of the war in Iraq. But you MUST support the troops." You asshole none of them WANT to be there.

40oz

Jun 8th, 2005, 3:33 AM

dutchie

Jun 8th, 2005, 3:34 AM

Do you want there to be no posts that pertain only to the US? Or only to one specific nation? Must all posts be so broad that anyone in the world can identify with them?
That would be an ideal situation - but I'm enough of a realist to acknowledge the fact that this would be impossible. What irritates me is that posters in any thread more or less treat the environment they're posting in AS IF it were American soil, and AS IF USA law / culture / politics / rules is/are automatically assumed to apply. It's this automatism that kinda irritates me every now and then. OK, I understand that the majority of members come from the States, but that doesn't mean they're posting in an American forum.

If you know of some interesting dutch news then let the rest of us know about it eh.Well, seeing the Dutch "no" to the European constitutional treaty was totally omitted / ignored in the politics forum, while this is still considered to be world news, it gives you a general idea of this public's interest in Dutch news affairs. I believe Theo van Gogh's death drew even more attention (but I was the one who had to post about it...).
I don't think the Netherlands to be of much importance in the world, but the megalomania some of you guys are equipped with, is sometimes baffling. At the same moment I know hardly any American will get WTF I'm on about... America IS after all the most important nation in the world, innit?!?
America... FUCK YEAH!!!

nrj

Jun 8th, 2005, 4:48 AM

By the way where are you from? Does your nation even have an army? Your perfect world is what? A nation of long haired hippies fighting wars with foam bats I bet. Sweden has troops deployed to afghanastan. Direct your attention to them instead of the leading force on the war against terrorism.

Sweden has not wared with any one for about 200 years now. The only Swedish soldiers you will find in afghanistan, is UN soldiers. And yes, my country have an army. My father is a paratrooper lieutenant, and it looks like he loves it. I just shake my head when he starts talking about how great the army is.

nrj

Jun 8th, 2005, 4:52 AM

Even if this were the case you dont have privilege to say anything negative at all regarding US Soldiers. In your very own words you said it is the politician that tell them "kill". So it is the politician you should be harassing NOT the US soldier risking his or her life in a foreign land because they had the courage to defend the United States.

Why do I not have that privilege? I know, that soldiers are not machines. They are humans, with feelings and a free mind. But, as far as I know, the politician tells them to kill. The soldier points with his M-16, and fires. Target eliminated. But who shot?

liberdave

Jun 8th, 2005, 10:18 AM

I haven't posted in a long while but I have to chime in here. Boot camp has many beneficial purposes with none of them being to train you to kill a child.Seriously, You have GOT to read the whole arguement before you chime in with some obscure half quote.

In boot camp you learn (to the recruit at the time it just seems like allot of screaming and torture) several character traits that will be with you for ever.
1) Loyalty
Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. constitution, the Army, and other soldiers.
Be loyal to the nation and its heritage.
2) Duty
Fulfill your obligations.
Accept responsibility for your own actions and those entrusted to your care.
Find opportunities to improve oneself for the good of the group.
3) Respect
Rely upon the golden rule.
How we consider others reflects upon each of us, both personally and as a professional organization.
4) Selfless Service
Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
Selfless service leads to organizational teamwork and encompasses discipline, self-control and faith in the system.
5) Honor
Live up to all the Army values.
6) Integrity
Do what is right, legally and morally.
Be willing to do what is right even when no one is looking.
It is our "moral compass" an inner voice
7) Personal Courage
Our ability to face fear, danger, or adversity, both physical and moral courage.
Right. That's great that you learn these, but this has nothing to do with the previous arguement. You have effectively regurgitated exactly what your employers have wanted you to. Good job. Do they send you a cookie in the mail? No matter what kinda of "codes" they beat into your brain, you still work for George Bush. He "basicaly" signs your paycheck. You do what he says. HE tells you to go fight for something you dont believe in and you do it. And just like any other job in the world, you can receive a termination slip and find yourself with out a job. I work at an auto parts store. They have a system that cites almost all of those codes mentioned. If you look at any employees handbook at almost any job, you will find something similar.

None of these you possess, which allows you to make such a ridiculous statement about something you have never done. How do you know I dont posses ANY of these traits. (Did the military give you telepathy?)

Most importantly basic training is designed to put the individual recruit through stress comparable to combat. Actually boot camp is designed to be MORE stressful the combat. So when and if you deploy to a hot zone you will be familiar and can deal with the stress. Leave it to a civilian with obscured ideology to say that boot camp is so robot soldiers can kill children or kill adults for that matter.Wow, so the military also taught you to make sweeping broad statements that have nothing to do with nothing... hmmm... interesting.... so! What they did was actually took away your better judgement and logical procees? Wow! Did it hurt?
Look, when you work for the US government, you work for lying theives and bastards. Period. If your paycheck stub has "Government" written somewhere on it, you work for THEM. You make yourself subjust to THIER rules at ALL times. And what if you dont like thier rules? Tough shit. You fight and die like the rest. Have fun.

O, and BTW, DontBeAfraid WAS afraid of my ideas. That's why he ignored me. What happened to #7 "Personal Courage"?

nrj

Jun 8th, 2005, 10:45 AM

Word, liber! Word! And for you who see me as a pacifist, I must confess I don't like violence. But, however, I know how the world works. A none violent world, is a world were no predators exist. And, sadly, humans are predators. But, if we would globalise, and create a united army, who fights for peace and not oil in foreign countries, then the world would be a better place. But, in these days, there are no such force. And the world is not united. But, you can always have that dream. A dream, were soldiers only exists to give people peace, and not to fight for some politician for money. Thats why i don't fancy the army. You fight for one nation. Only one nation, out of almost 250.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 8th, 2005, 2:44 PM

Even if this were the case you dont have privilege to say anything negative at all regarding US Soldiers. In your very own words you said it is the politician that tell them "kill". So it is the politician you should be harassing NOT the US soldier risking his or her life in a foreign land because they had the courage to defend the United States.

Yes, and as I've said before the Nurdemberg trials taught us that 'just following orders' wasn't an excuse.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 8th, 2005, 2:46 PM

America IS after all the most important nation in the world, innit?!?

Atleast you don't have to live next door to these ass clowns, hey wait a second, isn't America the only country in the world?

DeathCometh

Jun 8th, 2005, 3:12 PM

Atleast you don't have to live next door to these ass clowns, hey wait a second, isn't America the only country in the world?
Stong words for a country that relies on AMERICA for protection. Canada is like Americas little Bitch. :headbang:

nrj

Jun 8th, 2005, 3:20 PM

Stong words for a country that relies on AMERICA for protection. Canada is like Americas little Bitch. :headbang:

And that means no one can't say that many Americans are arrogant?

40oz

Jun 9th, 2005, 7:20 PM

Stong words for a country that relies on AMERICA for protection. Canada is like Americas little Bitch. :headbang:

Not to mention everything else they rely on us for. Like........ well, everything.

Defiant Noquisi

Jun 9th, 2005, 9:06 PM

Damn, looks like Ive arrived late to this party! Where do I start?

Mezurashi

Jun 10th, 2005, 10:02 AM

Damn, looks like Ive arrived late to this party! Where do I start?

I suggest using a fire hose to clear out the room, lotsa Testosterone (of all types) flowing ...

Gotta love these Hot Button topics - maybe I'll start a thread on the validity of the Pope according to Scripture or something ... no, wait, that's been done already. Okay, how about the question of volunteer armies versus remote robot soldiers? No? Okay, how about the idea of leaving people to die in remote places if they were stupid enough to trap themselves there in the first place? Or maybe the Death Penalty for Political Service?

Mezurashi

Jun 10th, 2005, 10:07 AM

Stong words for a country that relies on AMERICA for protection. Canada is like Americas little Bitch. :headbang:

actually, Canada is like the only safe place left for the Children of Uncle Sam to run too when Daddy decides he wants to fuck his own children some more.

Send us your tortured, your disgruntled, your seditious and those who are awake enough to see the true extent of the horror being visited upon them.

and I still support soldiers, I've never been in the military but I've had my life saved by them. The nicest group of 'Robot Jarheads' I would ever hope to meet, especially since I was the one being stupid and they made me feel better about myself.

and anyone who disrespects soldiers, well, nertz to you :Blbl:

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 10th, 2005, 5:00 PM

Stong words for a country that relies on AMERICA for protection. Canada is like Americas little Bitch. :headbang:

Ya, you know how Canada has a record of being known as arrogant pricks when it comes to dealing with the international community. Infact, in 2001, we were even attacked by a right wing extremest sect from the Saudi Area (who we happen to do much buisness with). Canada also has one of the worst records when it comes to dealing with black people (in fact, they were they even built an underground railway to get out) and don't forget about all those times we inforced conscription and a wuite a bit of young people ran to the States to dodge the draft. Let's see, what else is there? Oh yes, don't forget about Canada's long history of not signing onto such international treaties as Land Mine Bands, and Kyoto (let's face it, it would hurt buisness :( Also you can not forget about how Canada has history of starting unjust wars stretching the globe, and as a reason for that have gained an international reputation for being assholes.

Oh wait, no, THAT"S YOU GUYS DUMBASS! We don't rely on you for protection since we don't stick our dicks where they don't belong.

go to www.census.gov, check out foreign trade.

In the 2004 year:

the US Exported $189,879.9 worth of goods to Canada
the US imported $256,359.8 worth of goods from Canada
Leaving a balance of -66,480.0

(all figures are in millions of dollars)

So it would seem, the somehow even though your arrogant statement said that Canada relied on the states, the exact opposite would be true!!! What a surprise, another uneducated arrogant American.

Any more Canada bashing and you won't get any of our fresh water in 20 years when what little you have left is polluted to shit. Oh, and our beer is so much better. God bless capitalism.

bbbv3.5

Jun 10th, 2005, 10:11 PM

Nothing against canada, i dont like it when people bash my country. ANd if you have aproblem with the msot powerful nation in the world then go ahead and send your army. O wait..you dont have an army. When it comes down to it beer and water are the least impotant things on a countries essentials.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 10th, 2005, 10:58 PM

if you don't like it when people bash your country you're gonna have to argue against the majority of the worlds population (you know, all the brown people that you haven't bombed yet).

Haha, I'm glad you think you're the most powerful country in the world, as great as the Romans, or the Monguls, or Azteks, or the Automan Empire, or Hitler's Germany, or Napoleans France, or Britian's Empire. Go bigger then them, because that just makes your fall even more inevitable, as history has shown, over and over and over again, but yet you people are too ignorant and filled with false self-pride to realize it.

Bash Canada all you like because I could care less. I don't consider myself a Canadian, I am a human bieng who happened to be born in the geographical area currently known as Canada. I don't stand during the national anthem, I don't own anything with a flag on it. Mindless nationalism doesn't appeal to me, although it seems to appeal to many (not all) Americans.

I'm glad Canada doesn't have a large army, you know why we have a small military? WE DON'T NEED IT. We don't need it because we don't dick around in the desert now, we didn't dick around in the jungles in the 70's, and we didn't dick around with the Ruskies since the 50's. We foolish Canadians decided to spend our money on such ridiculus things as health care, government supported day care, education, scientific research, and other completely ludacris things. You're right, we should build up a massive army like you've been for no reason whatsoever, just simply to overcompensate for lack of intelligence.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 10th, 2005, 11:01 PM

Not to mention everything else they rely on us for. Like........ well, everything.

Funny, I looked around my house today, and I could not find ONE thing that said made in the U.S.A on it. So, how exactly do we rely on you?

And if it's true that we do rely on you, is it sort of the same way you rely on China? For such a great nation you sure seem to need to import a large amount of goods from other countries.

bbbv3.5

Jun 10th, 2005, 11:16 PM

Well yor post showed hypocracy (is that how u spell it). First you say you have no loyalty to your country and then you start babelling on how great canada is. Canada has alot less people then America. We have 3 times as much people as they do.

Our country however wasnt like the other countries you were mentioning. We are not trying to take over other nations like they tried to. Actually we are LIBERATING them. And the US helps you with most of the things you mentioned. No Canada is not our bitch like the retard death cometh said but you guys do ask for us to help you and we do.

We have every right and every reason to be proud of our country. We definatley have the most history in a 300 years span ever. We are the entertaninment center of the world and we have an army that can protect our civilians.

Armies are the most important things in a country because in the long run you might be attacked by a new growing power in the next couple off centuries. You dont know. Iraq is part 1 o liberating the middle east. We do this so we can protect our people from another WW2 crisis. Then hopefully palestine and Israel can come to peace. We are the ones protecting not only us, but the whole world.

And you ungrateful people in foreign countries cant look at the big picture and make fun of us as people are dieing to keep us and the rest of the nations from a possibl WW3 of terrorism that comes straight from the middle east.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 10th, 2005, 11:44 PM

Well yor post showed hypocracy (is that how u spell it). First you say you have no loyalty to your country and then you start babelling on how great canada is.

Just because I have no loyalty to a flag doesn't mean I can't appreciate some of the good decisions that the current/past governments have made (although most of them were bad).

Canada has alot less people then America. We have 3 times as much people as they do.

And China/India have a lot more people then America? You're point being...

Our country however wasnt like the other countries you were mentioning. We are not trying to take over other nations like they tried to. Actually we are LIBERATING them. And the US helps you with most of the things you mentioned. No Canada is not our bitch like the retard death cometh said but you guys do ask for us to help you and we do.

Hey America has participated in the exact same colonization as Britain (to a far lesser extent though). The point I was making was that every great empire, every undefeatable army in history has fallen, and what do you think makes America any different? I agree that we have a mutually acceptable trade agreement, but the fact is is that we import less from you then you do from us. As for the liberation, remember, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

We have every right and every reason to be proud of our country. We definatley have the most history in a 300 years span ever. We are the entertaninment center of the world and we have an army that can protect our civilians.

Not meaning to be too offensive, but um, pretty much an European country has a far more interesting history then America, see Frances 99 revolutions, the rise and fall of the British Empire, the splitting up of the Empires and the formation of Germany, etc, etc, etc. Being the entertainment capital of the world is hardly something to brag about (I perfer Britsh films/music myself, although i rarely watch T.V/Movies, books are far more educational).

And something happened on Sept.11th? Did that catch the well prepared army off guard? Was Star Wars not operating that day? Perhaps they were expecting a maginal line (France v Germany WW2)? I mean, briefings such as Bin Laden Determined To Attack Within The United States are fairly broad but come one, no one though to beef up security a bit at the highly explosive gas filled airplanes? That's another topic all together however and I digress.

Armies are the most important things in a country because in the long run you might be attacked by a new growing power in the next couple off centuries. You dont know. Iraq is part 1 o liberating the middle east. We do this so we can protect our people from another WW2 crisis. Then hopefully palestine and Israel can come to peace. We are the ones protecting not only us, but the whole world.

Really, I would think, oh I don't know, making sure your citizens have food, shelter, perhaps a job of some type, maybe some basic medical attention, clean water, etc. would all be more important then protecting an imaginary line from being crossed.

Haha, have you ever asked yourself why the US hasn't "liberated" Saudi Arabia or China? I mean, it would make perfect sense using the same logic. They are both run by oppressive regimes who enforce laws which contradict even the basic Western moral codes. The people living there certainly aren't 'free' by any meaning of the word, infact, Saudi is probably the most oppressive regime running right now (depending on how you look at it). They are currently the only country who openly enforces Shar 'ia Law who's punishments violate UN charters, and US's own cruel and unusual. Also, China actually forces abortions on woman, whereas in the States your not even sure if their legal or not.

But one overriding factor in all these decisions is capital. The US relies to heavily on Saudi investments, and Saudi oil. You rely too heavily on Chinese cheap labour. That is why you don't invade them, not for some abstract nobel cause.

And you ungrateful people in foreign countries cant look at the big picture and make fun of us as people are dieing to keep us and the rest of the nations from a possibl WW3 of terrorism that comes straight from the middle east.

UNgrateful people, oh so sorry master US, we will all bow down before you.

You ever think if you weren't such shit disturbers the wars wouldn't begin in the first place (i.e., funding Bin Laden to fight Ruskies in Afghani & supplying Iraq with WMD's, biological weapons, etc.).

bbbv3.5

Jun 11th, 2005, 12:01 AM

Excuse me but wht did 911 have to do with our Army. It was the secuirties fault. Any country could of had it happen to them. If you are going to talk about 911 in front of ME, a new york who had to deal with the pain of seeing the smoke over downtown for 2 months, you are going to talk about with intellegence instead of uttr stupidity about how are army wasnt working when it was a security failure. And we arent an Empire. We arent trying to control the world. We are trying to bring peace to the world little by litttle. And by the way. People n china have 3 times as many people. and they are doing like shit. Peole dont even have plumbing in some parts of china and have to take dumps in holes in front of their house. Oh yea...loook at how good their doing yet they have 3 times as maany peole as the USA.

ALso you should be grateful htat we aare helping you in asense. We are not telling you to bow to us. Your so ignorant of americans. You are calling us ignorant yet your the idiot who says only what you beleive and cant even appreciat another country who in a sense is helping you.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 11th, 2005, 12:34 AM

Excuse me but wht did 911 have to do with our Army.

Very little, but you were speaking of being able to protect your country, remember?

Any country could of had it happen to them.

I agree, but I wonder why they picked you???

If you are going to talk about 911 in front of ME, a new york who had to deal with the pain of seeing the smoke over downtown for 2 months, you are going to talk about with intellegence instead of uttr stupidity about how are army wasnt working when it was a security failure.

Army, security, national guard, blanket terms, my apology, I should have been more specific.

And we arent an Empire.

Then what would you call it? A republic? A nation-state? A holy land? It doesn't matter what you call it because it is what it is.

It isn't colonization in the traditional form (as in stepping in, taking land, etc.) but it comes in the form of cultural colonization, or market colonization, whatever you want to call it, and mirrors what all great empires have done.

We arent trying to control the world.

That's a highly questionable statement.

We are trying to bring peace to the world little by litttle.

Once again it all comes down to a matter of perspective. I have spoken to many Iraqi's/Iranians who are perfectly happy, in fact, you may be surprised to learn that many people were happy and better off living under Suddam (these are their words not mine). They didn't have nearly as many bombs being dropped on them, they didn't have an internal terrorist problem. Isn't this the resposibility of the world community not a rogue nation? How can you possibly justify some warped notion of 'freedom' or 'liberty' and force it upon the rest of the world.

And by the way. People n china have 3 times as many people. and they are doing like shit.

You were the one who said that the US had more people then Canada, I asked what it had to do with anything, you didn't answer.

Peole dont even have plumbing in some parts of china and have to take dumps in holes in front of their house.

Ever been to a ghetto?

ALso you should be grateful htat we aare helping you in asense. We are not telling you to bow to us.

Grateful? Nah, just as grateful as the world should be for America's raping natural resources.

Your so ignorant of americans.

Nope, been there many times, spoken to many people, found some very interesting people, America has produced some great thinkers (Chomsky, Poe, for example).

You are calling us ignorant.

For the most part, yes, because the majority of American's don't have a clue about whats going on outside of their own country, and they believe everything their president tells them. But I consider most people in the world ignorant so don't take it too personally.

yet your the idiot who says only what you beleive and cant even appreciat another country who in a sense is helping you.

"...Yet your the idiot who says only what you beleive and can't...

What else would you like me to say, things that i don't believe? Things that were force fed to me? Nah, I'm alright. My 'idiotic beliefs' are only based on years of experience in talking with people, years of university/college, travelling the world, as well as reading (on average) a book a week (not harloquin romances or sports illustrated) for the past 6 years or so.
Dude, my apologies

bbbv3.5

Jun 11th, 2005, 1:22 AM

Americ is a nation that unlike these empires you reffer to has freedom. We are a nation we are no different then Canada in classification fo Nation and EMpires. We are not trying to take over the world like an empire tries to do. And they must of been so happy thats why they came to Iraq and tore down his statues. And if you looked it up Sadaam Hussein was killing his own people. He was an evil dictator. The people whom you spoke to were probably the few people who were not affected by him at all yet most of the country was. Yes I have been to a ghetto figuring I basicallyy live in what you would call a "ghetto" and we have plumbing. And actually half of America is against Bush. Look at our previous election.

I am not changing your veiw yet you need a reason for why you look at us with little respect because we are proud of our nation.

playmaker88

Jun 11th, 2005, 4:36 AM

Wow, so the military also taught you to make sweeping broad statements that have nothing to do with nothing... hmmm... interesting.... so! What they did was actually took away your better judgement and logical procees? Wow! Did it hurt?
Look, when you work for the US government, you work for lying theives and bastards. Period. If your paycheck stub has "Government" written somewhere on it, you work for THEM. You make yourself subjust to THIER rules at ALL times. And what if you dont like thier rules? Tough shit. You fight and die like the rest. Have fun.

O, and BTW, DontBeAfraid WAS afraid of my ideas. That's why he ignored me. What happened to #7 "Personal Courage"?

The most sweeping broad statement so far has to be about military personnel being robots. If working for the US government means you work for "lying thieves and bastards" I would guess (probably my military training forcing me to make an assumption) that you would recommend no one to work for the US government, an ungoverned country, with no military, hey don't your police force beat defenceless people in the streets? So maybe no one should join them either.

Let's see what you are left with. Pure and total anarchy. The sort of thing that 14 year old boys who listen to death metal/punk have wet dreams about.

Your making sweeping statements about a form of training you've never been through. If you don't like the USA and the way it's run, disown it, emmigrate.

Oh and bbbv7, "ANd if you have aproblem with the msot powerful nation in the world then go ahead and send your army."

You were fortunate to be born in the USA, what have you done to help your country reach such a status?

nrj

Jun 11th, 2005, 8:21 AM

We have every right and every reason to be proud of our country. We definatley have the most history in a 300 years span ever.

Um... no, you don't. Even Sweden have a broader history then you guys. We controlled almost a third of Europe when America was making their laws.

Defiant Noquisi

Jun 12th, 2005, 10:31 AM

Um... no, you don't. Even Sweden have a broader history then you guys. We controlled almost a third of Europe when America was making their laws. I was wondering about that myself. And I live here!

BBB, you may want to back off this one because you havent done the research to beat these guys. Besides, you are the epitomy of what they are saying about America. When you get older and have more wordly knowledge under your belt youll know what I mean by this.

nrj

Jun 12th, 2005, 11:02 AM

Ok, what the fuck are you talking about? Beating this guys with research? This is an argument about wether or not you should fight for your country. History can't explain what is right or wrong. I replied to there history post, becaus I found it incorrect.

Defiant Noquisi

Jun 12th, 2005, 2:52 PM

WTF nrj, what are you going on about?

Assassin X

Jun 16th, 2005, 12:59 AM

There 2 reasons I personaly wouldnt join.

1. It aint worth the risk of possibly getting killed in battle.

2. (Since im American) This country isnt worth fighting for. Yep i said it. I dont care if it is "The best place on earth", "Land of the free"...etc. Just because its the best doesnt mean its perfect theres alot here that sucks like (once again for people like me) trying to get some SSI when you dont look disabled because SSI doesnt considered "Unknown" diseases as being sick. Or the fact that to many people fake crap to get SSI or Medicad and that crap.

So why join? Well technically i wouldnt be allowed because i do have asthma and seizures too but "why join" is mroe like it. This is just my opinion and im just responding to the question so no one should take this the wrong way.

lotrfan55345

Jun 16th, 2005, 11:55 AM

Defiant Noquisi

Jun 23rd, 2005, 8:26 PM

1) You live somewhere. Like it or not, it is the land on which your home sits and Id bet damn near anything if someone invaded your "home", you would defend it. Unless you want/like to be rammed up the anus with an enemy "weapon", enjoy being tortured or do not care if you live or die.

2) You learn something be it team mentality, maturity, what have you. If you dont well.....

3) You will become acutely aware of muscles you might never knew existed, and then some. Think you might have stamina now? Hehehe

4) The mental skills you learn can carry you through life if you choose to use them. The military isnt dominant people barking orders at mindless individuals. There is a reason for everything.

5) Freindship and commradary(sp). Except for a few sickos, your best freind may be the person who saves your ass during inspections, battle, potential blanket parties, etc. Just the encouragement and motivation alone, from someone else in the same place as you, does wonders.

6) Respect, not just for leadership or others, but for yourself as well.

7) You will definately appreciate real food after being in the military. I learned that after opening my first can of "beef and gunboats" and learning how to make devils food cake from a can of pound cake mix and powdered cocoa. That was back in the old days of C-rats. MRE's arent much better but you definately learn creativity. I still love shit on a shingle.

8) Personal pride, no explanation should be neccessary.

9) Values, if you didnt have any or many before, you will most certainly get some while youre in.

10) Protecting the beliefs and values of your country. I dont give a damn what country you live in. Each individual country has its way of life and Im sure that there are many things about your country that you may not like. However, Im sure that there are just as many and more things that you do. Face it, without your country having its military, some asswipe would come along and swipe all that you know and live from you.

Marajadex

Jun 23rd, 2005, 9:40 PM

I know I will get flamed for saying this... Go ahead... It better be good....

I think that most young americans should be exposed to miitary life after high school. That or some similar type of training...

There I said it... Flame on!!! Point out how I am wrong!!!!! It is just an opinion...

From my point of view there is a generation growing up with out the common sense they should have. They have little if any regard for other people... They don't understand the value of a dollar... There is no pride in doing what is right... in short they think they know it all and everyone else be damned.

When I was 18 and graduated from High School, My rear end should have been tossed into the military just to get the "smart A$$" out of me. I needed to learn the lessons of humility and respect. Today the High School graduates for the most part... there are always exceptions to the rule... need to learn discipline. Mostly Self discipline!!!

pandorasagebox

Jun 23rd, 2005, 11:20 PM

liberdave

Jun 24th, 2005, 12:03 AM

ok, a sense of duty and a desire to surround yourself with others with the same desire does not constitute a stupid or evil thing. What you need to think about entails "who do I work for." When you work for the government you work for the big corporation. The point of this big corporation includes pleasing its stock-holders (us and all of our contractual entities which include other big corporations like Micro$lop, IxI3xIvI, and P3p$I Co, etc. and our smaller contractual corporations like families, some townships, statehoods which have a smaller share in the USCORP. etc.) If you were an animal rights activist, would you work for a company that skins deer? Huh? wouldya? Ok I know that fighting "terror" and such seems a little more "dutiful" than skinnig deer but do you get mah point? Only PEOPLE can oppress PEOPLE! If a soldier was ordered to shoot me he would, now wether or not I did anything wrong dosent matter. Soldiers dont get paid to think, they get paid to react. You have to question the intentions of the people in charge, and those people have harder hittin homies than I do. People who WANT power rarely deserve it.

Defiant Noquisi

Jun 24th, 2005, 12:22 AM

What you need to think about entails "who do I work for." A most excellent and unfortunate point. Still, as rotten and evil as I believe a leader to be, Ill still take a defensive position. In our case, we have to put up with it from 4-8 years. At least to that, there is an ending.

liberdave

Jun 24th, 2005, 1:06 AM

I think that most young americans should be exposed to miitary life after high school. That or some similar type of training...
They did it like that in Sparta a while back...
What about kids that don't want to go into the military? Would we force them? Why on earth would you want all kids to find themselves subjected to the SAME experiences? Would we still have the Andy Warhols, Jack Kerouacs, and Glenn Danzigs? A differing voice needs to yell what America, ney, THe World needs to hear. If they all sounded the same, what would it sound like? I dont think I would like it though.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 24th, 2005, 5:04 PM

First off, this is not an attack on you DN, merely what you're saying.

1) You live somewhere. Like it or not, it is the land on which your home sits and Id bet damn near anything if someone invaded your "home", you would defend it. Unless you want/like to be rammed up the anus with an enemy "weapon", enjoy being tortured or do not care if you live or die.

Yes I do live somewhere 14 C****N Street. If someone was invading, I would not defend it with one ounc of strength. My reason A) If people were invading, I highly doubt that even with military service I would be able to pull off a Rambo and annhilate all the people trying to 'invade' my land B) My land is not really my land, I don't believe in ownership of land (or air, or water) so why would I risk my life to defend it? C) If Canada ever was invaded, I would not care. It's called a cabin, in Northern Ontario, no one around for 100's of miles, no way to track you, actual freedom. What if I like being rammed up the anus (oh no, i've gone to far)

2) You learn something be it team mentality, maturity, what have you. If you dont well.....

Please somebody explain to me why we need to have 'team mentality'? In what situation (other than work or sports) does it come in handy? I much rather remain, oh I don't know, what do you call it? AN INDIVIDUAL!!!

3) You will become acutely aware of muscles you might never knew existed, and then some. Think you might have stamina now? Hehehe

I'm fit, not uber healthy, but not a sloth either. Again, why do you need to take physical fitness to such an extreme? And if it's stamina you're after, spend a couple hours with me in bed and we'll see who's worn out first :bondage:

4) The mental skills you learn can carry you through life if you choose to use them. The military isnt dominant people barking orders at mindless individuals. There is a reason for everything.

Mental skills from the military, military intelligence? Ha. Real knowledge comes from several sources, the most important of which is life experience (which you're not going to find at a military base) and reading/studying/viewing/etc.

5) Freindship and commradary(sp). Except for a few sickos, your best freind may be the person who saves your ass during inspections, battle, potential blanket parties, etc. Just the encouragement and motivation alone, from someone else in the same place as you, does wonders.

Nah, I'd rather not participate in any battles so avoid the whole situation of having to be saved. Much easier that way. Friendship is highly overated, I have few friends, but the ones I do have are really close. Why do you need to have 20 asshole friends calling you for favours every week. Commradary doesn't exist, it's a romantic concept. Again, real world application?

6) Respect, not just for leadership or others, but for yourself as well.

Just one thing to say for that "FUCK AUTHORITY!!!" Fuck the leaders, sargents, captains, presidents, etc. I've yet to hear a single one who speaks for me (or even remotely close). Self-respect can be learned through many other ways than joining the service.

7) You will definately appreciate real food after being in the military. I learned that after opening my first can of "beef and gunboats" and learning how to make devils food cake from a can of pound cake mix and powdered cocoa. That was back in the old days of C-rats. MRE's arent much better but you definately learn creativity. I still love shit on a shingle.

I like my food, and being able to appreciate real food after you're done isn't really a reason to join the military (I sense you're running out of reasons)

8) Personal pride, no explanation should be neccessary.

Is that the same as self-respect? Even so, I take personal pride in everything I do, songwriting, mowing the lawn, writing, making posts like this, and yet I've never been in the military, strange...

9) Values, if you didnt have any or many before, you will most certainly get some while youre in.

Ya, that's exactly the group I want to teach me values, the same people who kill on command, murder people they've never met before just because they happen to live in a different geographical area, or god forbid, believe something that they don't.

10) Protecting the beliefs and values of your country. I dont give a damn what country you live in. Each individual country has its way of life and Im sure that there are many things about your country that you may not like. However, Im sure that there are just as many and more things that you do. Face it, without your country having its military, some asswipe would come along and swipe all that you know and live from you.

Beliefs and Values of your country??? Sounds like BS to me. You do realize that it's that kind of mindless nationalism that starts these wars in the first place (coupled with some kind of profits). Why would anyone want what's mine, I really don't have that much. But if they really felt they needed it, I would give it to them. No problems. If you're saying that each country has it's own way of life, then how could you possibly justify invading another country during a war. Is it not thier country? They may live under a dictatorship but that's there way of life, let them be. If they want democracy (like what we have here are real democracies) they will fight for it themselves.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 24th, 2005, 5:05 PM

I think that most young americans should be exposed to miitary life after high school. That or some similar type of training...

That's a great idea, there's nothing better to liven up a democracy like forced military service.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 24th, 2005, 5:17 PM

-
The reality is that our species from the beginning of consciousness has always been violent;

Got any proof of that? It seems to me like the people who are doing most of the killing are in the military NOT 'civilians'. Almost every single war has been started for one of three reasons. A) Difference in religion B) Money (whether it been in the form of trade routes, resources (natural or man-made) and other things of that nature).

Humans are not violent people. Proof of this is that we are still alive, and there are billions of us. We do not kill eachother in an animalistic way because even though our history is routes in the animal kingdom WE HAVE EVOLVED!!!

My husband just came back from Afghanistan, and I couldn't be prouder for the honor that he has brought to our family. The men and women in our country that serve everyday, and sometimes sacrifice their lives are the reason that misinformed civilians have the right to complain and whine.

I'm not trying to be offensive but I have to ask, exactly what part of his service are you proud of? I understand the justification for Afghanistan was moreso justified than the second invasion of Iraq, but please, what makes you proud? Is it some kind of image of him protecting your rights? Protecting the rights of others? Giving freedom to others? Killing Afghani's if need be? Do you imagine him as some kind of hero?

Even though I don't live in the great united states, I do not, and would not, support any war effort in any way. I never asked for anyone to fight for my rights/freedom because, we don't actually have any. I would not blindly follow the decisions of some dickweed in a suit throwing a dart at a map to decide where he wants to invade next.

-This country would not be what it without the blood of our brave servicemen and women that has been spilt thru decades - my children would not have a democracy. The fact that we have the right to stand up and proclaim what we believe to be right or wrong is all thanks to our military service.... because sometimes saying ..."no please put down that bomb...please..." just doesn't work..... :smash:

You're right, if it wasn't for war, your country wouldn't be the same. Since pretty much throughout American history, war has been the most profitable buisness. If you think you're children or you have a democracy you've been watching too much FOX News. Our right to say what we believe is not granted or even provided by the military, it is a human right. I could go into more detail about leaders and money and bombs but all this is tiring me out.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 24th, 2005, 5:19 PM

They did it like that in Sparta a while back...

Don't forget the Hitler Youth!

Would we still have the Andy Warhols, Jack Kerouacs, and Glenn Danzigs? A differing voice needs to yell what America, ney, THe World needs to hear. If they all sounded the same, what would it sound like? I dont think I would like it though.

Don't forget about the Hunter Thompson's (long live Dr. Gonzo)

nrj

Jun 24th, 2005, 5:21 PM

nrj

Jun 24th, 2005, 5:35 PM

-
The reality is that our species from the beginning of consciousness has always been violent; giving reasons not to join the service is not unusual, however there are many reasons To join the service. My husband just came back from Afghanistan, and I couldn't be prouder for the honor that he has brought to our family. The men and women in our country that serve everyday, and sometimes sacrifice their lives are the reason that misinformed civilians have the right to complain and whine. This country would not be what it without the blood of our brave servicemen and women that has been spilt thru decades - my children would not have a democracy. The fact that we have the right to stand up and proclaim what we believe to be right or wrong is all thanks to our military service.... because sometimes saying ..."no please put down that bomb...please..." just doesn't work..... :smash:

Yeah, right... I dont want to offend your family or anything, but it kinda sounds like bullshit. Sweden have been neutral for about 200 years. We are democratic, we have the right to say whatever we want. Hm... Kinda makes you think, how a country can achieve democracy, free speach and not being invaded? Well, there is an explenation: Form a democratic voting system, listen to everyone who speaks and face it with constructive critisism. And how do you keep it not destroyed? Simply dont go into military alliances, invade countries or spread anti propaganda about other religions/nations. I dont recall any war in that sullotion, do you?

DontBeAfraid

Jun 24th, 2005, 6:07 PM

Marajadex

Jun 24th, 2005, 6:39 PM

Ok you two... liberdave and Forgotten Rebel... You both might want to go back and read my post again and then respond. To quote myself:

I think that most young americans should be exposed to miitary life after high school. That or some similar type of training...
1st. Did you notice the word MOST in bold letters. That in no way means ALL.

2nd. Did you see the words EXPOSED TO? It does not say forced to enlist. Both of you used the word Force/Forced... Where did I say that anyone should be forced to do anything?

3rd. Did you see the words OR SOME SIMILAR TYPE OF TRAINING? There are multitude of organizations that young people can be come a part of and learn responsibility, organization and respect.

You seemed to miss the comments about this current generation lacking many important traits of humanity... To quote myself again:

From my point of view there is a generation growing up with out the common sense they should have. They have little if any regard for other people... They don't understand the value of a dollar... There is no pride in doing what is right... in short they think they know it all and everyone else be damned.

I am disapointed in both of you for not reading the words written and just going off half cocked.

nrj

Jun 24th, 2005, 6:44 PM

Sure, the corps might make you know that you are alive and all that. But, I dont think I will ever use those things anyway. I know I am alive. I dont plan moving to a third world country, cause they are the ones who always seems to get their as in to a war. So, I will try and live in peace, and maybe take a hike through Sarek. Makes you feel alive, carrying all the food your gonna eat for a week, and you have to tent to sleep. And best of all: You are not trained for warfare by doing so.

Houston411

Jun 24th, 2005, 10:22 PM

The military really does open up your mind as to what life is. There may be other ways to do this as well but I imagine that other methods would have to be of equal intensity. You arent going to gain any true perspective from mowing your lawn or reading a book.
You get perspective from everyday life. It helps make us all differnt. If we all had to be "exposed" to military life, we'd just mold into a sci-fi movie, were everyone is bald with a bar-code on there head.

People over expose everything so much to "give people a taste of reality". While it may be one to them, its not to us.

Defiant Noquisi

Jun 25th, 2005, 2:08 AM

If someone was invading, I would not defend it with one ounc of strength. My reason A) If people were invading, I highly doubt that even with military service I would be able to pull off a Rambo and annhilate all the people trying to 'invade' my land Im far from being Rambo but I sure wont go down easy.

Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

C) If Canada ever was invaded, I would not care. It's called a cabin, in Northern Ontario, no one around for 100's of miles, no way to track you, actual freedom. No way? That is no guarentee. Running from a problem wont solve it either. Ill fight anyday over running away.

Please somebody explain to me why we need to have 'team mentality'? In what situation (other than work or sports) does it come in handy? I much rather remain, oh I don't know, what do you call it? AN INDIVIDUAL!!! Since when does learning to work as part of a team erase being an individual? You have forgotten that a team is made up of individuals. You also may not realize that any relationship you ever have with another person is also a form of team. Everyone has their part in it whether work, sport, freindship, marriage etc. Just being involved in society is being part of a team. Also, working as part of a team isnt just doing something in a group, it also is doing something yourself that is assistant/attached to the work of others.

Even you as a member here posting, you are part of a team.

And if it's stamina you're after, spend a couple hours with me in bed and we'll see who's worn out first Id be too afraid of your opinion popping up out of nowhere and ruining the mood. Oh BTW, if I did spend a couple of hours with you in bed, thats being a team. So would you classify us being in bed as work or sports? ;)

Mental skills from the military, military intelligence? Ha. Real knowledge comes from several sources, the most important of which is life experience (which you're not going to find at a military base) and reading/studying/viewing/etc. Obviously you have never been in the military, otherwise you would have never posted the above.

Nah, I'd rather not participate in any battles so avoid the whole situation of having to be saved. Much easier that way. You think that by avoiding being involved in a battle keeps you safe from its repercussions and collaterals? I take it that from the above quote should you be taken prisoner that any rescuers should just leave you there? It would be much easier that way.

Commradary doesn't exist, it's a romantic concept. Again, real world application? Youd have to be involved in the real world to make a judgement about it.

Just one thing to say for that "FUCK AUTHORITY!!!" Fuck the leaders, sargents, captains, presidents, etc. I've yet to hear a single one who speaks for me (or even remotely close). Self-respect can be learned through many other ways than joining the service. The above screams of anarchy, which isnt neccesarily a "bad" thing. However, there will always be a leader. Since you happen to be the leading advocate for socialism, hence the "authority", should I just say the same to you?

Yes, you can learn self respect other ways, but military service IS one of those ways and should not be left out.

I like my food, and being able to appreciate real food after you're done isn't really a reason to join the military (I sense you're running out of reasons) I didnt run out of reasons, you ran out of humor and left behind the reality of what I posted. You would appreciate a well prepared and wonderful meal so much more after eating having eaten the opposite for awhile. If you havent, how could you compare it if you have nothing to compare it to?

Is that the same as self-respect? Even so, I take personal pride in everything I do, songwriting, mowing the lawn, writing, making posts like this, and yet I've never been in the military, strange... Since you have never been in the military, you really dont have an educated opinion because you have nothing in the way of fact or experience to go on. This isnt meant as a putdown, its just the way it is.

self-respect, n. Due respect for oneself, one's character, and one's conduct.

pride, n. A sense of one's own proper dignity or value

Both are similar and different. I was covering all the bases.

Ya, that's exactly the group I want to teach me values, the same people who kill on command, murder people they've never met before just because they happen to live in a different geographical area, or god forbid, believe something that they don't. Hmmm, imagine that! You couldve just described millions of people whove never even been in the military but have seen something most military people have never seen, the inside of a penitentiary.

Beliefs and Values of your country??? Sounds like BS to me. You do realize that it's that kind of mindless nationalism that starts these wars in the first place (coupled with some kind of profits). I am no where near "mindless" so lets squash that ignorance now. As far as nationalism in general, if someone doesnt like where they live then they can leave. Otherwise, I have no time for their whining. Crybabies dont get anything done. "Mindless nationlism" does not cause wars and where you get this idea I have no clue. Now, selfish leadership, THAT causes wars. You put alot more weight in sheeple than they deserve.

Why would anyone want what's mine, I really don't have that much. But if they really felt they needed it, I would give it to them. No problems. You wont be giving it to them because you wont have the chance. Theyll kill you for it. Again, taking the pacifist route is no guarentee you will be spared. At least not before you are tortured, have limbs removed and then put out of your misery. Its a sign of weakness that will be taken advantage of.

Defiant Noquisi

Jun 25th, 2005, 2:12 AM

You get perspective from everyday life. It helps make us all differnt. If we all had to be "exposed" to military life, we'd just mold into a sci-fi movie, were everyone is bald with a bar-code on there head. BAHAHAHAHA!!! Damn, the closest I got to it being a "sci fi movie" was watching Star Wars on base. LOL

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 28th, 2005, 8:51 AM

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 28th, 2005, 8:55 AM

1st. Did you notice the word MOST in bold letters. That in no way means ALL.

I did notice the most, but it doesn't make sense. Who's going to decide who goes, who doesn't? If it's a choice, wouldn't the same number of people go now as before MOST would go?

2nd. Did you see the words EXPOSED TO? It does not say forced to enlist. Both of you used the word Force/Forced... Where did I say that anyone should be forced to do anything

Again, doesn't make sense. So there not going to be in the military, just watching it from the side? How will they learn comradship from watching? And if they're taking part in it, then once again was it there choice?

3rd. Did you see the words OR SOME SIMILAR TYPE OF TRAINING? There are multitude of organizations that young people can be come a part of and learn responsibility, organization and respect.

Ah, a rose by any other name my friend.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 28th, 2005, 9:19 AM

Im far from being Rambo but I sure wont go down easy.

ooo, playing hard to get (drum roll please)

Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Humm, I wouldn't quite call it living on your knees. You can do a lot more when you're alive then when you're dead.

No way? That is no guarentee. Running from a problem wont solve it either. Ill fight anyday over running away.

Actually it does solve quite a bit. Passive resistance. Remember Ghandi? You can fight and die, I'll hide and live. To each his (or her) own.

Since when does learning to work as part of a team erase being an individual? You have forgotten that a team is made up of individuals. You also may not realize that any relationship you ever have with another person is also a form of team. Everyone has their part in it whether work, sport, freindship, marriage etc. Just being involved in society is being part of a team. Also, working as part of a team isnt just doing something in a group, it also is doing something yourself that is assistant/attached to the work of others.

Maybe instead of joining the military you should have been attending classes/reading. They've devoted an entire branch of science to the study of group behaviour, sociology!!! Groupthink, if you will, mob mentality, conforming to not stick out of a group, many ways to lose your individuality. Friendship is a team? Come on DN, the only team work i perform with my friends is emptying beer cans. Marriage too?

Even you as a member here posting, you are part of a team.

Yes, it's true that I'm a member of AO, but I certainly don't consider anyone here a team mate by any means. I'm an individual member of AO, not a part of some collective body working towards a common purpose.

Id be too afraid of your opinion popping up out of nowhere and ruining the mood. Oh BTW, if I did spend a couple of hours with you in bed, thats being a team. So would you classify us being in bed as work or sports? ;)

Obviously you know me too well. And, it would be classified as bedroom sports, the marathon to be precise.

Obviously you have never been in the military, otherwise you would have never posted the above.

Well it's true that I have never been in the military, I've had much experience with the military as I said earlier. Several of my friends are currently in the armed forces(different branches) and my grandfather fought in WW2 for the Germans. Based on the descriptions put forth by those people, I've drawn conclusions, on top of that, the posts others have made in this thread, like you, have furthered this idea.

You think that by avoiding being involved in a battle keeps you safe from its repercussions and collaterals? I take it that from the above quote should you be taken prisoner that any rescuers should just leave you there? It would be much easier that way.

First off, I don't know if you read it but I do not believe in wars, I will not take part in a war, I will not be near a war. Simple as that.

The above screams of anarchy, which isnt neccesarily a "bad" thing. However, there will always be a leader. Since you happen to be the leading advocate for socialism, hence the "authority", should I just say the same to you?

I'm not an anarchist, I'm a socialist, remember? I'm an advocate of socialism, not a leader of it, because, guess what? The Socialist Party of Canada HAS NO LEADER!!! It's called a democracy!!! You made a jump from me promoting an ideology, to being an authority of it, to being the leader of it??? Is that the kind of logic they taught you?

You would appreciate a well prepared and wonderful meal so much more after eating having eaten the opposite for awhile. If you havent, how could you compare it if you have nothing to compare it to?

So having shitty food to appreciate good food is a reason to join the military, okay then.

Hmmm, imagine that! You couldve just described millions of people whove never even been in the military but have seen something most military people have never seen, the inside of a penitentiary.

Millions of murderes, wow, the US is doomed.

I am no where near "mindless" so lets squash that ignorance now. As far as nationalism in general, if someone doesnt like where they live then they can leave. Otherwise, I have no time for their whining. Crybabies dont get anything done. "Mindless nationlism" does not cause wars and where you get this idea I have no clue. Now, selfish leadership, THAT causes wars. You put alot more weight in sheeple than they deserve.

Okay, but why do you have to like where you live? Can't you just be, A HUMAN? Why do you have to bow to a flag? Stand for an anthem? Die for your country? Since the advent of nation-states, we have not had a day of peace, coincidence or correlation?

You wont be giving it to them because you wont have the chance. Theyll kill you for it. Again, taking the pacifist route is no guarentee you will be spared. At least not before you are tortured, have limbs removed and then put out of your misery. Its a sign of weakness that will be taken advantage

Oh jebus. They really did place a fear of everything in you there didn't they. The enemy will torture you, they're ruthless, evil, vile scumbags who must be crushed with any force necessary. In reality, they too are people, not evil beings.

Talk to my grandfather. See what kind of people made up the German military of WW2 they weren't evil. They were just regular people forced into it, but you couldn't convince an American/Canadian/British soldier that the German guy was a human being, with family, friends, feelings, because they were trained to think of them as evil doers who deserve to die. And vice-versa.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 28th, 2005, 2:14 PM

**** *** FR. Did I say reading was bad? All I said was its not going to change you in any way. You are just some backwoods loner and "I dont wanna play with you cause you're gay!" Your grandpa probably was an evil doer and probably should die.... nope I would rather not talk to him I have already made up my mind about you and everyone you know. You want to live alone in the woods cause you know that society doesnt like you and your ilk. And why dont we like you? Well its cause we are part of a HUMAN race while you are a backwoods hick.... Thats less than a dog in my opinion. Are you reading this?

Houston keep your tard opinions to yourself.

"Thats funny Im funny." - American Dad

nrj

Jun 28th, 2005, 4:09 PM

Um... perspective on reality is not gained by military service only. Cause, if you didnt notice, we live in the fucking reality.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 28th, 2005, 5:51 PM

Did you read my post nrj? If you did you read it you would know that thats not what I said. ******* swedes.

nrj

Jun 28th, 2005, 6:17 PM

Yeah, I read it, but it was to fucking rasistic and retarded to reply on. That last reply was even worse. Fucking swedes? Yeah, go on judging 9 million people you dont know. Just because we live in the forest tightest nation in the world, doesnt mean there aint civilisation. Ever been to one of our metropolises, Gothenburg and Stockholm?

DontBeAfraid

Jun 28th, 2005, 6:54 PM

Whats the matter? Dont like being judged by someone who doesnt know what he's talking about? Think tard.... think.

nrj

Jun 28th, 2005, 7:04 PM

Ok, DBA. You are acting very rude and very arrogant. Your ignored, and I wish you gl hf to countinue this thread without acting rasistic. Your gonna need it.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 28th, 2005, 7:10 PM

Im acting rude and arrogant? You are just a crybaby swede. Maybe you're being too sensitive? If you had any sense at all you would realize the point im making when I judge your entire pussy country from a perspective that not really sufficient to make such judgements.

I am not going to lay it out any more than I have.

Marajadex

Jun 28th, 2005, 7:15 PM

It is nice to know that with age comes wisdom. If there had been an internet when I was in my 20's I am sure I would be horrified today by what I wrote then. Keep that in mind DBA... Years from now when these guys have gaind more perspective on life, the universe and everything.., their words will still be here... As for me... I think I have had enough of this thread... Let them argue it out themselvs.

nrj

Jun 29th, 2005, 4:49 AM

Yeah, this thread is ridicoulos. Its not a debate anymore, its a mud fight where everyone tries to make the other side look stinkier. Hej då, tråd jävel!

DontBeAfraid

Jun 29th, 2005, 4:54 AM

It was never a debate nrj.... This thread has always been people baggin on shit they dont know about. I just changed the focus from military life to your shit country.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 29th, 2005, 6:44 AM

**** *** FR.

Hummm, did they teach you that in the military? I sense you're upset at something, did your mother finally take you off the tit? Or does she tease you with it every once in a while?

Did I say reading was bad? All I said was its not going to change you in any way.

Perhaps you should put down the Harloquin Romances and pick up a real book, it could change you're way of life.

You are just some backwoods loner and "I dont wanna play with you cause you're gay!"

Backwoods loner? Actually, there are no woods anywhere near my house, I live in the Greater Toronto Area, so pretty much pavement and concrete, just like any other city.

Your grandpa probably was an evil doer and probably should die....

Nope, actually he fought against the Ruskies, which your country ended up in a 50 year cold war against. As for my great grandfather, he was a guard at a POW camp in Germany for American soldiers. He snuck them in food and clothing until the other guards found out and executed him, and through his corpse into an unmarked grave.

nope I would rather not talk to him I have already made up my mind about you and everyone you know.

Ignorance ignorance ignorance.

You want to live alone in the woods cause you know that society doesnt like you and your ilk.

I never said I wnated to live alone in the woods, I said I would if I had to. Society doesn't like me however, but most people do, the one's with open minds who don't judge people based on first impressions or appearances but on the basis of ideas and ideologies.

And why dont we like you? Well its cause we are part of a HUMAN race while you are a backwoods hick.... Thats less than a dog in my opinion. Are you reading this?

No, people like me, I can provide you with some references if you really want. Once again, not a hick, live in a big city (around 200k) and have for most of my life.

Any other arrogant statements you'ed like to make?

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 29th, 2005, 6:45 AM

DBA, if you're such a fan of the military, why aren't you serving in Iraq right now?

bluenose_ian

Jun 29th, 2005, 11:44 AM

Sorry to jump in but i have to say that whoever said that our soldiers are robots is full of sh*t.. ok some people get drafted in but a lot join because they are brave enough and care about the world. I joined because i wanted to.. i was not a robot We do jobs where nobody else is brave enough to do. Without those brave men who have gone through some terrible things we would be facing people like Hitler destroying whole populations..

Enjoy your cosy little life but i think people take it for granted, My grandfather was in the Second WW BRAVE MEN LIKE HIM DIED FOR THE FREEDOM OF FUTURE GENERATIONS.

Now thats no robot he just cared

Being trained to be a soldier makes you highly motivated and the main reasons that everybody does the same thing like polishing boots making beds keeping kit clean is for a number of reasons like hygiene..being ready and prepared and yes in the moment we are killing machines but we dont enjoy it. it just has to be done because we are brave enough..

nrj

Jun 29th, 2005, 11:53 AM

Ok, maybe my english is starting to get worse now, but did you just say that you soldiers are better and braver then us civilians? If thats not BS, I dont know what is!

bluenose_ian

Jun 29th, 2005, 12:01 PM

As for everybody above me who posted grow the fu*ck up..Slating other peoples countrys tut tut..

nrj

Jun 29th, 2005, 12:07 PM

Um... dude, you know that there are brave and good men outside the military to, right? Doctors, policemen, firechiefs and Nobel prize winners are giving up everything for making the world better.

bluenose_ian

Jun 29th, 2005, 3:58 PM

Um... dude, you know that there are brave and good men outside the military to, right? Doctors, policemen, firechiefs and Nobel prize winners are giving up everything for making the world better.

i dont think service men and women are better than civvies at all

but i will say it takes a special kind of person to go through some of the horror they see and still function..and yes that includes police who are in a war of their own everyday of the week,doctors who see children half dead and mashed up and battle to keep them alive, Fireman very brave..i salute anybody like that who has a positive impact for mankind

So yes of course they to are brave people all i was trying to say is that alot of brave people during ww2 and other wars including civvies sacrificed themselves to stop tyranny and evil

And when u get sick comments like the 1 above me thats a perfect example for the point i was trying to get across people and there comfortable lives who dont give a sh*t for what they say.. sorry for the bad english

DontBeAfraid

Jun 29th, 2005, 4:17 PM

bluenose read through a good part of my posts and you should begin to see what my posts are. Im trying to make a point with some of the vulgarity and ignorance but it seems to be lost in translation.

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 29th, 2005, 6:28 PM

Actually my great gradnfather was thrown in an unmarked grave, meaning we can't possibly know where he lay.

My grandfather is still alive and well, never killed any babies, but he did kill some Russian soldiers.

If you're trying to get me upset DBA, you have a long way to go. Remember, I don't get all bitchy and whiney when someone says something I don't like (much like you are right now)

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 29th, 2005, 6:29 PM

DBA, if you're such a fan of the military, why aren't you serving in Iraq right now?

DBA, if you're such a fan of the military, why aren't you serving in Iraq right now?

DBA, if you're such a fan of the military, why aren't you serving in Iraq right now?

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 29th, 2005, 6:35 PM

Im trying to make a point with some of the vulgarity and ignorance but it seems to be lost in translation.

And what kind of point is that? Prooving how rude and arrogant you can be? Or prooving how you can't have a debate, perhaps it's too difficult for you to remain civil? Instead you make profane references that my grnadfather sucked cock and murdered babies, which I could report (though am choosing not to), and if the mods where doing their job should have been recognized a long time before this thread turned into you insulting the Swede's, War Veterens, and for whatever reason my family.

DontBeAfraid

Jun 29th, 2005, 6:57 PM

The mods have their own drama..
The only mod (http://forums.armageddononline.org/showpost.php?p=75379&postcount=113) that would have cared.. :ban:

DBA, if you're such a fan of the military, why aren't you serving in Iraq right now?
How is this relavent? I have already taken what service has to offer while you have no clue what it has to offer.

This thread degraded a long time before my obtrusive posts.

What your grandfather did with prisoners was sell them contraband until he was executed for for being dishonorable and making a profit at the expense of AMERICAN heroes. To your baby eating nazi grandfather american heroes were just a quik buck.

If you cant tell what my point was then maybe you should read a few more books loser. The written word is quite important; however reading about the expirences of OTHERS is not going to change you.

bluenose_ian

Jun 29th, 2005, 8:28 PM

Ok DBA i have just read the lot and apart from the insults i see your point, well quite a few different opinions but to many to quote. One thing i will mention is Forgotten rebel i dont know about your background but sounds like your very lucky to live in a nice peacefull neutral place but some nations like USA and Britain and even Canada. We have all had to get our hands dirty and get stuck in. Since the last century our countrys have had to engage in wars.

Some i agree with some i dont but lets say if Hitler invaded europe and we just did nothing and watched. We stood up and said no this aint happening and got stuck in.

What if we just stood back and watched Saddam invade kuwait.

What if we just let osama get away with the 911 and your town or city was his next target

What if we didnt do anything about the reported weapons of mass destruction in iraq.

liberdave

Jun 30th, 2005, 5:19 AM

Unfortunately DBA speaks truth, this thread's purpose degenerated about the time DBA responded with ad hominems. He seems to not care about the image he portrays, nor about whatever tracts of decency he claims to tout. His moronic posts continue to show his degenerated mental capacities. And I think that talking to a dog urine covered fire hydrant about this topic would pose greater enjoyment to me and probably bring up better points. I hate censorship, but in DBA's case, I'll make an exception. He made the ignore list. Forgotten and nrj, I suggest you do the same.
Secondly, he also made a point about Dutchie leaving, so sad, so sad... :bncry:
Lastly, bluenose_ian, the point of this thread seemed to follow this topic...

Look, when you work for the US government, you work for lying theives and bastards. Period. If your paycheck stub has "Government" written somewhere on it, you work for THEM. You make yourself subjust to THIER rules at ALL times. And what if you dont like thier rules? Tough shit. You fight and die like the rest. Have fun.

bluenose_ian

Jun 30th, 2005, 6:38 AM

I thought this thread was about 10 reasons not to join the forces lol all i have seen is bickering..

Personally i can give u ten reasons for and against..

Can i ask a question..What is this ignore list i keep hearing about im new to this site and dont understand..The only reason i can think of is vulger language and personlally verbally attacking someone.. Can someone explain please?

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 30th, 2005, 1:55 PM

How is this relavent? I have already taken what service has to offer while you have no clue what it has to offer.

Well, your sitting in your comfy chair typing out gibberish supporting the military, and I was just wondering why you aren't currently fighting if you believe in them so much.

This thread degraded a long time before my obtrusive posts.

No, actually it started degrading right around the time you popped in, funny isn't it?

What your grandfather did with prisoners was sell them contraband until he was executed for for being dishonorable and making a profit at the expense of AMERICAN heroes.

Another blatent falsehood, he snuck prisoners in food and clothing, no charge, not for profit, because like all the members of our family we care about our fellow human beings, even if they are being complete assholes like you are for no reason. How is sneaking soldeirs food and clothing to help them stay alive for free being dishonorable? Hummm, and no, he was actually executed for aiding the enemy, not for trying to make a profit.

To your baby eating nazi grandfather american heroes were just a quik buck.

I already told you he never fought Americans, he served along side the tanks in RUSSIA!!! He didn't enjoy killing 'enemy' soldiers because he knew they were just like him, but when it's a choice between having your parents, wife, and newly born son (my uncle) being put in prison (and later executed) it's not much of a choice at all. He doesn't tell war stories with pride, he tells them with almost a sense of shame, possibly regret that he had to take another mans life. It's a memory that haunts him to this day.

If you cant tell what my point was then maybe you should read a few more books loser.

If the point was you're an ignorant slob, I understand completely.

The written word is quite important; however reading about the expirences of OTHERS is not going to change you.

That's opinion, not fact, or even an arguement, I think you need a review of logic and reasoning, which I would be happy to provide for free if I thought you would actually listen.

Got anything else?

Forgotten Rebel

Jun 30th, 2005, 2:00 PM

Liber, I'm adding DBA to ignore, I figure he's like a child, if you ignore him, the naughty behaviour will cease. (although I fear he's too far gone, may require electroshock treatments).

Dutchie left? What happened?

Now moving on to the real topic of the post... (with a drum roll please, let the intelligent discussion begin!)

DontBeAfraid

Jun 30th, 2005, 2:08 PM