IS immortality possible in this life time.?

[NEXUS]

the reason i ask this question is found in 1 Corinthians 15.v.45-58! :2thumbs:


did you think, we have the 'wrong mind-set', when we see such a verse as Romans 2v.7. :2thumbs:

---------------

let us even consider 2 tim. 1.v 10!

the order of Melchedezic, the Order Jesus is High priest is the order of endless life. Heb.5.v.6

endless life - no death was ever found it it.

then we can ask?
was there any death, found in Jesus Christ and the answer is NO! for He GAVE-UP His life, if He had not, H would still be alive in human form today, as we all Know,
Hwever, have we been blinded to the Glorious Gospel and the real treasures it contains,!? by the sacrifice of Christ and its benefits to saints who are His temple without spot/wrinkle/unclean thing.


now ofcourse we do have this ONE VERSE>....heb 9 v 27! one verse is not considered as a witness !

could it mean we die to sin, rather than die TO sin?

and
maybe we have neglected this command of ''be ye perfect[mature and whole] as the Father in Heaven is perfect''.

Did you see in 1 corn. 15 v 45 - the last Adam was made a ''quickened'' spirit.
IF
a person who believes in Christ, and becomes His image, do you think, he becomes this ''quickened'' spirit?
or
as a NEW creature a quickened Spirit, [where all old things have passed away, and all things are NEW,] and is death considered an 'old thing'?

then again we see in verse 49 - ''bearing the image of the heavenly''.

do we do this now?

do u think it is a mystery - meaning - needs understanding to solve such a mystery and not all shall be able to 'solve'' it., and why is it a mystery in the first place?
umm... such interesting things to seek out.


do you think when Jesus took the 3 inner circle Peter James and John, up to the MT. Of Transfiguration, [as eyewitnesses, to behold His glory, as He manifested His insides to the outside,] that this is what is to be expected for saints who desire to be '' the image of Christ the Hope of Glory'' - His workmanship!
Do you think as ''His Image'' - this is what this event really means?
and
do you think the Work - the finished work of the Cross, allows this to happen, rather than being a victim of death, saints become VICTORIOUS, over death.
even the last enemy to be DEFEATED IS DEATH!
ask, who are these people ''defeating'' death?

so interesting.... let us pray for understanding....

[Defiant Noquisi]

In my way of thinking, death is an honor so that whole theory you posted doesn't quite gel with me.

[NEXUS]

the NT bible tells us that DEATH is an ENEMY...

do u feel it ''an honor'' to fall into the hands of your enemy?

ummm strange notions some have!!!! :jamn:

[Beatnik Bob]

the NT bible tells us that DEATH is an ENEMY...

do u feel it ''an honor'' to fall into the hands of your enemy?
I feel it an honor, I'm completeing the cycle of nature, and I know I would have lead a full life.

Immortality sucks, after awhile I'd get board and wish I was dead, sort of like the ghosts in the Return of The King.

Plus, as long as you feel emotions you are going to die of old age.

And the Bible can't always be interpreted in a literal context.

[NEXUS]

well i put it to the tests...
like a map into a hidden treasure cave i follow it...
and
i have found IT WORKS....
but...
only IF you follow it's directions exactly and stop thinking like our own 'god' tells us to think.
We have to be de-programmed from human silly immature reasonings!
However!
i do believe it is a contest between 2 'gods' vying for our attention.
the ego 'god' inside us
or
surrendering up INTO THE HANDS OF THE REAL creator.


see!
people love their own ego god so much it kills them.
They never even think to give the other one a chance... they tear up + shred the rule book and call it stupid and ''i'll do it my way''....

insanity!!! is the result.= human insanity!!!!
resulting in death.

[Beatnik Bob]

I don't understand a word you just said.......

[Keeblergiant]

i do believe it is a contest between 2 'gods' vying for our attention.
the ego 'god' inside us
or
surrendering up INTO THE HANDS OF THE REAL creator.

As soon as I see those hands I'll surrender.

[Gyhth]

Let's say humans become immortal. Doesn't that then mean we are perfect? I mean, if something is immortal, it is without blemish as there is nothing at all that can blemish it - no death, so no war, no famine, no pestilence. There maybe a lack of intellect, but up to a point, that too becomes nothing as we would have multiple life times to learn various topics, so intellect throughout the world, after a certain point and desire would be universal with all people knowing the exact same thing and all things being known. Once your up to this point, scientific advancement becomes far speeded so we would thus become equal to "God" in most respects. Besides, why would God want humanity to become immortal?

I mean, if God has a plan for us, we would have been immortal from the start as immortality is apart of perfection, and an imperfect being can not become perfect, nor can a perfect being become imperfect. And, to go with what Jesus said on his Sermon on the mount, "Good trees bear good fruit, bad trees bear bad fruit". If you look at this, the analogy is the same - if God is good, God therefore made everything good, even that fruit that Eve ate in the Garden so humanity is still therefore good and pure as God is good and pure, else if humanity is bad, God is therefore bad as a perfect and immortal being can not make something imperfect.

Really, immortality is not possible with a belief in a greater being, as to believe in immortality in a physical since states that there is no afterlife anymore, and therefore, really, two tier reality - the reality of the dead, and the reality of the living, where both realities are no longer growing as both no longer change - no more death, so no more spirits in the after life. Really, it's a two sided blade - you can't have immortality, and still have God/an afterlife.


Links to material/verses mentioned:
Is Death Final? (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/death.html)

Romans 2:7 (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/2.html)

1 Cor 15 (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/15.html)

[Sammy56]

The thought of immortality makes me sick. Why would you want to continue to live in a world full of suffering and pain for all eternity? I know I would not.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

I remember reading a story where immortality was forced on someone as a curse. Makes sense to me. Having to live knowing everyone around you is going to grow old and die while you stay forever young? Knowing that if you fall in love, it's only going to last the blink of an eye before you lose that person? Fuck that. Lemme die young and stupid.

[NEXUS]

............ Lemme die young and stupid.



as a man thinketh so shall he be!!!!

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Really? Damn. Guess I'm screwed.

[Sammy56]

Well that might not be so bad Philosopher. Getting screwed can be a good thing.

[Sabazi]

As soon as I see those hands I'll surrender.
Same here.

[Sabazi]

I remember reading a story where immortality was forced on someone as a curse. Makes sense to me. Having to live knowing everyone around you is going to grow old and die while you stay forever young? Knowing that if you fall in love, it's only going to last the blink of an eye before you lose that person? Fuck that. Lemme die young and stupid.
But what if everyone was immortal?

But no, immortality would get boring, since you'd run out of things to do eventually.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Well that might not be so bad Philosopher. Getting screwed can be a good thing.

Okay, so we have immortality and sex. Sounds like we're about ready if a genie pops up on the forum. Anyone have any ideas for the third wish? I nominate "A million-skillion dollars."


But what if everyone was immortal?

Then there'd be no such thing as children. Young women who burned with the desire to go out and raise their own families would be unable to do so. And considering how many people want to have children, that's a major blow to the world right there.

Alternatively, childbirth wouldn't be disallowed, but the world population would start growing far more steadily than we've seen so far. Imagine if everyone on Earth, from the beginning of time, never died. There'd be no room to move, let alone live a productive life.

[Defiant Noquisi]

the NT bible tells us that DEATH is an ENEMY... It may tell you that, however, I find you strange since my beliefs come from the Creator and not a book.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Well that might not be so bad Philosopher. Getting screwed can be a good thing. Yeah no kidding, especially if they willingly leave after they are done pleasing you.

[DarkAce]

was there any death, found in Jesus Christ and the answer is NO! for He GAVE-UP His life, if He had not, H would still be alive in human form today, as we all Know,


How did he give up his life? I'm pretty sure according to christian mythos the idea was that God sent him to die for humans' sins. It wouldn't make sense for him to be a quitter when he could of done so much more by being alive. By the way, Jesus was human, usually human lifespans don't span 2000+ years.


the NT bible tells us that DEATH is an ENEMY...


Does it tell us that or do you interpret it as that?


We have to be de-programmed from human silly immature reasonings!


You should really give that human reasoning a chance...


Let's say humans become immortal. Doesn't that then mean we are perfect? I mean, if something is immortal, it is without blemish as there is nothing at all that can blemish it

How does being immortal equal perfection? What do you define as perfection? The thought of immortality is hypothetical and we really have no idea what being immortal would entail.

You could be immortal and be friggen crazy, would that not count as a blemish? How about if you were sick before becoming immortal (having some sort of diesase), you won't die now, but would you still suffer from the diesase? That's definitely a blemish.


no death, so no war, no famine, no pestilence.


Would everyone be immortal? Even so all those things would continue to happen with the exception of death occuring.


There maybe a lack of intellect, but up to a point, that too becomes nothing as we would have multiple life times to learn various topics, so intellect throughout the world, after a certain point and desire would be universal with all people knowing the exact same thing and all things being known.


You say that as if it's concrete fact. What makes you think everyone will be willing to/have the interest to learn such various things? Not everyone has the capacity or willpower to do so, immortal or not. It's quite a notion (what else are you going to do with all that time?), but some people would certainly be contempt with just laying around having sex for eternity. By the way, all things will never be known, it's impossible.


equal to "God" in most respects.

How would we be equal to 'God'? (I doubt we could parallel all the things that are attributed to 'God').


Besides, why would God want humanity to become immortal?


Why does 'God' do/want any of the things it does?


I mean, if God has a plan for us,


What makes you think 'God' has a plan for us?


we would have been immortal from the start as immortality is apart of perfection


Shame on you for trying to guess at what 'God's reasoning is. Besides, what is perfection? You think you know what the term implies, but what does it mean in realistic terms? Can you truly answer that?

Nothing is perfect.


"Good trees bear good fruit, bad trees bear bad fruit".


That's a pretty terrible analogy they attributed towards Jesus saying, (really Good/Bad trees and fruit? Ugh not even to mention the agricultural sense of what's wrong with that...)


if God is good,


What makes God good? Is it what it does that makes the action good (for instance all the OT passages where "he" smites/kills/orders the death of innocents) or does the actions "he" does already considered good thus making "him" good?


God therefore made everything good, even that fruit that Eve ate in the Garden so humanity is still therefore good and pure as God is good and pure, else if humanity is bad, God is therefore bad as a perfect and immortal being can not make something imperfect.


That's some pretty shoddy logic there. Without going into the technicals of your reasoning there, why does God have to be one or the other...?

Continue with this black and white outlook and you'll never find any true understanding in life...


Why would you want to continue to live in a world full of suffering and pain for all eternity? I know I would not.


I dunno, if you were immortal you could be a life long contributor towards bringing an end to all the pain and suffering experienced by others in the world.

I personally wouldn't mind becoming immortal as long as it's in the Highlander sense of it. That being there's only a few of us who are immortal, we never age, never get sick, can't have children, can still die if our heads become decapitated from our bodies and of course becoming active participants in the 'game'.

There can only be one! Heh.

[Gyhth]

How does being immortal equal perfection? What do you define as perfection? The thought of immortality is hypothetical and we really have no idea what being immortal would entail.

You could be immortal and be friggen crazy, would that not count as a blemish? How about if you were sick before becoming immortal (having some sort of diesase), you won't die now, but would you still suffer from the diesase? That's definitely a blemish.


I was arguing in the idea of the bible, and from the strict literal since of it, no one is crazy or sick - it's simply demons inside the person, and if we were immortal, according to the bible, that means the kingdom of God was here, so no demons, etc, etc, etc. Not the best logic, but if your arguing the bible it's easier to go in relation to what's in it rather then outside logic that some will just say, "NO! YOUR WRONG!" to.




Would everyone be immortal? Even so all those things would continue to happen with the exception of death occuring.


According to the bible verses, anyone left alive would become immortal at the end of times, or so is the interpratation of some groups.





You say that as if it's concrete fact. What makes you think everyone will be willing to/have the interest to learn such various things? Not everyone has the capacity or willpower to do so, immortal or not. It's quite a notion (what else are you going to do with all that time?), but some people would certainly be contempt with just laying around having sex for eternity. By the way, all things will never be known, it's impossible.


I'm not saying everyone would, but if even a small percent of the world's population does become interested, most things would become far easier.




How would we be equal to 'God'? (I doubt we could parallel all the things that are attributed to 'God').


I meant in the idea such as creation of life(Cloning, or other techs), curing various diseases, etc. Not in a sort of biblical sense, but in the context, we would all be able to some of the things that used to be thought only a God could.




Why does 'God' do/want any of the things it does?


It shouldn't have to do anything if it's perfect, as it wouldn't require anything to survive and would be pleased with what it had originally before creation.



What makes you think 'God' has a plan for us?


I don't, but ask any religious person and they'll say he does.



Shame on you for trying to guess at what 'God's reasoning is. Besides, what is perfection? You think you know what the term implies, but what does it mean in realistic terms? Can you truly answer that?

Nothing is perfect.


"Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen." (Dictionary.com)

So, um, yeah...



That's a pretty terrible analogy they attributed towards Jesus saying, (really Good/Bad trees and fruit? Ugh not even to mention the agricultural sense of what's wrong with that...)


Good analogy or bad analogy, all we know is he sure did like his foods.




What makes God good? Is it what it does that makes the action good (for instance all the OT passages where "he" smites/kills/orders the death of innocents) or does the actions "he" does already considered good thus making "him" good?

That's some pretty shoddy logic there. Without going into the technicals of your reasoning there, why does God have to be one or the other...?

Continue with this black and white outlook and you'll never find any true understanding in life...


As I said earlier, I was working within the confines of the Catholic doctrine - God is Good according to them. Simply went with it. I agree with you - some things are in the gray.

[DarkAce]

I was arguing in the idea of the bible, and from the strict literal since of it, no one is crazy or sick - it's simply demons inside the person, and if we were immortal, according to the bible, that means the kingdom of God was here, so no demons, etc, etc, etc. Not the best logic, but if your arguing the bible it's easier to go in relation to what's in it rather then outside logic that some will just say,


If you're going to argue the bible perspective, keep in mind that only the fundamentalists and extremists take the bible in a literal sense. In the grand scheme of things evangelicism is a minority of the christian denominations.

Most of the other christians in the other sects know better nowadays rather than blame demons and what not.


I'm not saying everyone would, but if even a small percent of the world's population does become interested, most things would become far easier.


Would things becoming easier, be wrong? Even so again you have to equate that a good portion won't use their aquired talents for the betterment of those around them, most likely serving self-interests.


I meant in the idea such as creation of life(Cloning, or other techs), curing various diseases, etc. Not in a sort of biblical sense, but in the context, we would all be able to some of the things that used to be thought only a God could.


I'm not quite sure what your're trying to argue with this post. If it's to make a mockery of religious thought ok, but you're confining it to only the fundamentalist approach and it's pretty unanimous among the consensus that they're fucking retarded.
But nevertheless, we will never be equal to 'God' and so what if we're able to mimic some of the 'things' people say 'God' does? Is that wrong? To use the parent/child analogy (that's often thought of when showing the relationship between God/humans) I'd think God would be proud of us being able to do shit on our own.


It shouldn't have to do anything if it's perfect,


Why is that?


I don't, but ask any religious person and they'll say he does.



He does? By religious person I guess you imply christian? There are other types of religious folk, even those who would differ on the supposed 'plan'.


"Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen." (Dictionary.com)

So, um, yeah...


Uh..ditto. Now relate that to the human condition and think hard. Immortal or not we would never achieve 'perfection'.


As I said earlier, I was working within the confines of the Catholic doctrine - God is Good according to them. Simply went with it.


Yeah but even they provide reasoning for this. Sure your average person won't be able to answer the question,, as they'd probably reply with "Because he just is!" and you'd probably even be hard pressed to get a straight answer from a priest. But since you mentioned Catholic doctrine I'm intriguied if you know their reasoning behind saying so? I can't remember, but I think Aquinas applied some earlier philosophical works into the context of christianity and came up with some good answers.

Btw, welcome to the board. It's been quite a drag lately with mostly idiotic debating and series of unrelentless quiping... Good to have some new blood that doesn't think they're God incarnate...

[liberdave]

Death is the payment for being able to have sex. Creatures that don't have sex really never die "unless they never reproduce". Because it is near impossible to differentiate the original from the duplicate, and the two are *exact* matches. SO our ability to have sex and enjoy life is balanced by death. That's why necrophelia is so perverse. :yumyum:

[Defiant Noquisi]

Raven had a sig that said necrophelia was the compulsion to crack open a cold one. Or something like that. It was definately humorous.

Gee, Nexus hasn't been back to answer in their own thread. I guess they wern't immortal.