Holier then thou?

[New Creature]

I am posting this in a drunking state. Do i have it right? no way. Am i on to sumthing yeah i think so. But I have fallen, it is ok to fall. AM i a hyp[ocrit? possably this is my statement showing that no one isperfect. no One can be. We all have struggles. How can a man look upon a woman and not lust? these I cannot answer but let us all strive WITH each other for perfection even though it is unattainable. Collectivly we can change things, make a difference. We do people on this board bicker to each other? As ion the words of the most beaten brother in socal, cant we all just get along?

[jeffweeder]

im in a drunken state as well,we just have to be real with each other and try and comminicate honestly ,according to our own experience and not push anything on anyone although in this line of work it can be difficult . you cant blame people for getting edgy whenever the name jesus is spoken, seeing as he is so woefully represented. love is the greatest thing and you cant or shouldnt hide it. i havent worked out how to look at without the mind wandering (a woman) but i know they are more than sex objects
(

[Philosopher Foelhe]

It's nice to hear someone making a plea to warrior bonds on the forum. But the truth is, I bicker with people because I respect them. Arguing sharpens my wits, and I like to think I've helped some of the people on the forum look at things from a different perspective, the way they've done for me. And if the forum actually settled on one particular viewpoint, we might be able to get some stuff done, but the fact of the matter is we all have very different ideas of what needs to be taken care of and how. That's a necessity, I think - anytime I see the members of a group start to think the same way, I notice they tend to start running off cliffs.

I agree with you about the pursuit of perfection, rather than the attaining of it. And it sounds like you might be having some troubles at the moment, and I hope you find your way through them.


How can a man look upon a woman and not lust?

(And to take some of the angst off, I gotta say this line made me laugh pretty hard. Cheers! :D )

[DarkAce]

If attaining 'perfection' in life is what gives you a purpose, then so be it. Whatever the motivation, whether we try and fail or have yet succeeded, we all need some sort of drive to gain meaning.

But I have to ask, what happens if we succeed at our 'purpose'? What then?

[Sage]

A righteous man will fall 7 times, yet he gets up and tries again.
However we are told we must become perfect. Matt.5:48
Here in lies the hope, that we see where our way brought us along with the shame and we detest it.
Remember we warned to repent and be converted.


sage

[Panda]

I am posting this in a drunking state. Do i have it right? no way. Am i on to sumthing yeah i think so. But I have fallen, it is ok to fall. AM i a hyp[ocrit? possably this is my statement showing that no one isperfect. no One can be. We all have struggles. How can a man look upon a woman and not lust? these I cannot answer but let us all strive WITH each other for perfection even though it is unattainable. Collectivly we can change things, make a difference. We do people on this board bicker to each other? As ion the words of the most beaten brother in socal, cant we all just get along?

We bicker cause we disagree. We probably could get along if we stop contesting each other on the issues we disagreed with and just accepted other peoples opinions.

Why strive for the unreachable? I'd prefer to make the most of what IS attainable.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I am posting this in a drunking state. Do i have it right? no way. Am i on to sumthing yeah i think so. But I have fallen, it is ok to fall. AM i a hyp[ocrit? possably this is my statement showing that no one isperfect. no One can be. We all have struggles. Have you ever met a perfect person? I think not and I know I never have because they do not exist. The gross manifestation of "perfection" in a person's mind has everything to do with their lack of control of their life. By continuously and habitually attempting "perfection", people try to make themselves appear and feel "normal" when inside they are falling apart. Some people are so caught up in the attempt that they can never accomplish anything, they keep trying to "fix" it because it's not perfect even though what they are trying to fix is already a beautiful thing. Give up the attempt of perfection and you will dump an enormous weight off your shoulders.

Now before I get detractors let me clear up a bit more what I typed above. The "perfection" I'm bringing up isn't the striving nature to do one's best. That is a natural and healthy state of mind. The kind of "perfection" I'm bringing up is the state an unhealthy person's mind virtually dwells in. It's the state of mind where they feel that they cannot and will not ever attain acceptance from others and force themselves to try to be "perfect" and attempt to justify their lives through it. Since they set themselves up for continuous failure because they never attain perfection, it becomes a downward spiral and a never ending scenario for self abuse.

I know someone like this. This person is absolutely brilliant and may never see this because they are so focused on "perfecting" everything, or they swing directly opposite and dump whatever it is they were doing because it isn't "perfect", even though to me it was a beautiful thing. The sad part of these types of people is that they also have a tendancy to extend this expectation of perfection on those they are close to. While I am completely flattered and honored to be in this person's "circle" in some capacity, it's also a very painful experience because I don't live up to their standards and sometimes they are very sharp when making sure I know it. I'm glad I'm on the other side of the keyboard when this occurs because if this person knew the tears they have brought me it would just be another excuse for them to beat themselves up even more and take me along for the ride.

So far the joy this person has brought me has been worth every minute of time I could spend with them, however, I feel a change coming soon. I have stuck by this guy as a freind for a long time and it's sad. On one hand they look to me for advice and freindship, then on the other hand they take that and punish me with it in a controlling manner.


How can a man look upon a woman and not lust? The same way I can't look at a man without lust. It's a natural thing. It's not the thought it's what you do with it. I have never been jealous of my guys looking at other women. As far as I'm concerned they can look all they want as long as they are respectful to me about it.

Here's another thing that gets me raving sometimes. WTF is "looks" all about anyway? I admit it, I look at a guy if he's hot and I can't deny it. But damn, if he opens his mouth and sounds like a complete idot I turn around and walk away. That has got to be the biggest turn on to me is a guys mind. If he's dumb and I know it I can barely even give him the time of day. Yes, I lust after smart guys and I can't help it. He may have a great package but it's the gift inside that matters most. Some of the hottest times I've ever experienced were spent with plain looking guys with incredibly sharp minds. And I'm not talking about educated minds either. I want the stuff that's hard to come by. I want natural innate brain ability. College is a plus but it's the guys with a naturally keen mind that blow me away each and every time.


these I cannot answer but let us all strive WITH each other for perfection even though it is unattainable. So why even strive for something that's not attainable? Why even waste your time like that? For example; I am now playing World of Warcraft, an online computer/internet game. I have never gamed like this in my life and quite frankly my hand/eye coordination sucks as well as my capacity for critical thinking which is damn near a neccesity to play this game. I knew that the way my brain worked, it would not be possible to play like hardcore gamers do, ever. In fact I wasn't even sure that I would be able to be competitive at all. My "choice" if you will, was to try and play the game to enjoy it rather than attaining level 60 which may prove impossible for me.

The character I chose just happened to be the hardest to learn, something I didn't know at the time. Some have tried to convince me to create an easier character because they know I will have a hard time and I do. But since I don't know the game as they do I'm having a hard time anyway, it's normal. However, just because it's hard doesn't mean that it's not fun for me. I'm sticking with my chosen character and when it is no longer enjoyable to me, I'll ditch it for something else.

I'm doing well for someone with a head like mine, I'm meeting new people and have kinda teamed up with a guy/mage character who is doing the same quests I am and gets just as lost as I do. He's got a great sense of humor and has made the game even more enjoyable. He may even be joining us here. I would have cheated myself out of this and other future experiences if all I had done was wanted to be "perfect" at it which is something I will never be.

Give up the perfection myth because that is exactly what it is, a myth. You will do yourself a world of good when you realize and truly learn that everything in life is a choice. It is up to you and you alone to face it head on and deal with it or wallow in self pity. Admiitting you have a problem is the hardest step to make. The next hardest is actually doing something healthy about it.

[New Creature]

This kind of dialogue is far more fruitful in my opinion then anything else I have been involved with thus far. I appreciate the knowledge. Let me also confirm that I was really bent when I posted that.

I think my goal (the perfection or unattainable) was to more or less ask if we could debate with tact rather then hostility (I think, I really can’t remember my motive) I respect everyone’s opinions and don’t want to start an online feud as I have plenty of those in my daily life.

I could sum up my ideal of perfection like this. We all have things about us that we would change if we could. Never mind the whole bible thing. If we could change it or better yet if we do then we have change circumstances and made things better for ourselves and our families and friends. Maybe perfection is too strong of a word.
How about to better ones surroundings.

I have a very violent mind set. I hate it, I was on all kinds of medications for it, and paranoia, and OCD (atleast thats what the doc says, I beg to differ though.) So in comes the drinking. If I could flip a switch and change all that, would this not be perfecting the imperfect? Different situations dictate different perceptions. We can’t clump everyone’s lives into our own ideal of perfect. At one time I liked being violent. (Army Days)

If I could go back and change a few things even with repercussions I would in a heartbeat. Wouldn’t we all?

I just had to add that I am a text book case of why some people look for perfection, or God, or something better then what we have or who we are. I was dealt a pretty bad hand and I guess im just looking for better cards rather then working with the ones I got.

Oops, also that I stand outside of myself and watch my disaster unfold. I dont wallow in self pity, I can promise you that! It is what it is. And it is what its gonna be!

[Defiant Noquisi]

This kind of dialogue is far more fruitful in my opinion then anything else I have been involved with thus far. I appreciate the knowledge. Let me also confirm that I was really bent when I posted that. I noticed that. I also sensed an incredible amount of pain for not being better than you are. Believe me, I have been there and back more than a few times. I could draw you maps.


I think my goal (the perfection or unattainable) was to more or less ask if we could debate with tact rather then hostility (I think, I really can’t remember my motive) I respect everyone’s opinions and don’t want to start an online feud as I have plenty of those in my daily life. Online hostility is going to happen, it will hopefully remain an exception rather than the norm and I am guilty of it myself. Unfortunately and then again fortunately, we cannot control the actions of others (another symptom of unhealthy "perfectionism", control freaks) and can only act as soon as we take notice of it. I am guilty of it and even as a mod here I have been "warned" by other mods, and yes we also edit each other. Shit happens.


If we could change it or better yet if we do then we have change circumstances and made things better for ourselves and our families and friends. Maybe perfection is too strong of a word. How about to better ones surroundings. Okay, stop right there. In recovery this is where people make their biggest mistakes. It's good to be considerate of your family and freinds but at this very critical time, it's very important to think about yourself first and not be concerned about their circumstances. This is the only time that being selfish is not only a good thing, it's critical to your recovery. I've argued with the best of them about their belief that being selfish is a bad thing. At this point in time maybe it really isn't good or bad, it's really a choice of life over death and I mean that in the most sincere and serious way possible. You cannot even begin to take care of your family's and friend's needs unless you can take care of yours first.


I have a very violent mind set. I hate it, I was on all kinds of medications for it, and paranoia, and OCD (atleast thats what the doc says, I beg to differ though.) So in comes the drinking. If I could flip a switch and change all that, would this not be perfecting the imperfect? Different situations dictate different perceptions. We can’t clump everyone’s lives into our own ideal of perfect. At one time I liked being violent. (Army Days) I grew up in violence and have the cracked skull to prove it. I grew up violent and was violent in the Marine Corps. BUT SO WHAT? If you have enough logic about you that you can recognize your violent mind then you also have enough logic to deal with it. I made a commitment to myself and at the time my unborn child that I was going to do everything I could to rein in that anger. Very angry people are also very passionate people and you must choose to learn how to channel that anger into a more healthy direction. Just as anger became an innate habit for you it can also become something else if you choose to do what is nessecary to make the change.

Fuq "flipping the switch", that's just another "magic pill" we all dream was a reality but isn't. I have brain damage and ADD. No matter how many times I explain it as clearly as possible, others try to force me into thinking as they do. They just don't get it that as much as I really want to I never will. Perfecting the imperfect? Bullshit! Improving on the imperfect is a great and noble thing.


If I could go back and change a few things even with repercussions I would in a heartbeat. Wouldn’t we all? Sure we would but guess what? As long as you keep dealing with "ifs" and dwelling in the past you are holding yourself back, regressing and setting yourself up for another excuse to beat yourself up again.


I was dealt a pretty bad hand and I guess im just looking for better cards rather then working with the ones I got. Tell ya what, I've got you beat and others have me beat. I was molested at 6, beaten for 7 years of which at 10 I received my cracked skull and slight permanent brain damage, I was molested by my high school auto shop teacher, raped once and a second time was an attempt but I beat the motherfuckers head damn near into gelatin, my first husband would choke me when drunk and my second emotionally abused me when he was drunk. I checked myself into a hospital and enjoyed 21 glorious days getting a check up from the neck up. I am alive and kicking ass today because of that stint in the hospital. There's no such thing as being dealt a bad hand if you choose not to play. Saying you got a "bad hand" is an excuse I call bullshit on.


Oops, also that I stand outside of myself and watch my disaster unfold. I dont wallow in self pity, I can promise you that! It is what it is. And it is what its gonna be! Again I call bullshit. If you didn't at least stick your big toe in self pity you wouldn't be claiming you were dealt a bad hand.

You can't bullshit this bullshitter. Been there, done that and have the tshirt to prove it. My uber recovery tshirt sez...


Lifes a bitch, then you change your attitude! Try it sometime, it works amazingly well if you are honest with yourself about it.

Maybe someday I'll take a pic of it and post it in here.

[New Creature]

I can see you have overcome your past obsticles and have strenghtened from it. Perhaps not everone can. Maybe some take more time to overcome there hardships? (myself being one that needs more time)

I can say though I personally thank you for having the courage to share. I dont want to get into a my life is worse then yours debate, that will only spawn negativity.

[Beatnik Bob]

I didn't know you gave birth to Jake, New Creature. :lol:

[New Creature]

I didn't know you gave birth to Jake, New Creature. :lol:

watchamean?

[New Creature]

Some of you who will remain nameless at present (beatik) are like ravenous wolves. Scanning post to see whom they can pick apart and devour. However in your zeal and ignorance to what is being posted you kick yourself in the teeth.

[Sammy56]

New Creature, Bob was just trying to make a joke. I do not think he was trying to be a "ravenous wolf".

[jeffweeder]

time to draw on that double edged sword and slay people with the truth

[Defiant Noquisi]

I can see you have overcome your past obsticles and have strenghtened from it. Perhaps not everone can. Maybe some take more time to overcome there hardships? (myself being one that needs more time) The day will never come that I am finished working on past obstacles. I've got 15 years in the can and still working.


I can say though I personally thank you for having the courage to share. I dont want to get into a my life is worse then yours debate, that will only spawn negativity. Ah, sorry for being overzealous on that. I meant that however bad it can be for you there will always be another who is in a similar circumstance, in other words you are not alone. ;)