A Missing Day ?

[jeffweeder]

For all you scientists out there and for all the students who have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of the Bible... here's something that shows God's awesome creation and shows that He > is still in control.

Did you know that the space program is busy proving that what has been > > called "myth" in the Bible is true? Mr. Harold Hill,President of the > Curtis Engine Company in Baltimore Maryland and a consultant in the > > space program, relates the following developement.

"I think one of the most amazing things that God has for us today happened recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt, Maryland. > >They were checking the position of the sun, moon and planets out in space > > where they would be 100 years and 1000 years from now. > We have to know this so we won't send a satellite, up and have it bump > into > > something later on in its orbits. We have to lay out the orbits in>terms of the life of the satellite, and where the planets will be so the > >whole thing will not bog down. They ran > > the computer measurement back and forth over the centuries and it came > >To a halt. The computer stopped and put up a red signal, which mean that there was something wrong either with the information fed into it,or with the results as compared to the standards. They called in the service > department to check it out and they said "what's wrong?"

Well, they found there is a day missing in space in elapsed time.They scratched their heads and tore their hair. There was no answer. > Finally, a Christian man on the team said, "You know,one time I heard > about the sun standing still. While they didn't believe him, they didn't have an answer either, so they said, "Show us".

He got a Bible and went back to the book of Joshua where they founda pretty ridiculous statement for any one with "common sense."There they found the Lord saying to Joshua, "Fear them not, I have delivered them into thy hand; there shall not a man of them stand before > > thee."

Joshua was concerned because he was surrounded by the enemy and > >if darkness fell they would overpower them. SoJoshua asked the Lord to > make the sun stand still! That's right-"The sun stood still and the moon stayed and hasted not to go down about a whole day!" (Joshua10:12-13)

The astronauts and scientists said, "There is the missing day!"

They checked the computers going back into the time it was written and found it was > close but not close enough. The elapsed time that was missing back in > >Joshua's > >day was 23 hours and 20 minutes-not a whole day. They read the Bible > >and > >there it was "about approximately) a day"

These little words in the Bible are important, but they were still in trouble because if you cannot account for 40 minutes you'll still be in > trouble 1,000 years from now. Forty minutes had to be found because it can be multiplied many times over in orbits. As the Christian employee > thought about it, he remembered somewhere in the Bible where it said the > sun went > >BACKWARDS. The scientists told him he was out of his mind, but they got > out the Book > > and read these words in 2 Kings that told of the following story Hezekiah, on his deathbed, was visited by the prophet Isaiah who told him > > that he was not going to die. Hezekiah asked for a sign as prooof.

Isaiah > > said "Do you want the sun to go ahead 10 degrees?"Hezekiah said "It > >is > nothing for the sun to go ahead 10 degrees, but let the shadow return > > backward 10 degrees."

Isaiah spoke to the Lord and the Lord brought the shadow ten degrees BACKWARD! Ten degrees is exactly 40 minutes! Twenty three hours and 20 minutes in Joshua, plus 40 minutes in Second Kings make the missing day in the universe!"

Isn't it amazing?

References: Joshua 10:8 and 12,13 and 2 Kings 20:9-11.

Forward this to as many people who you believe would think this is equally as cool. Never be afraid to try something new.

Remember, amateurs built the ark.

Professionals built the Titanic. :smokin:

[liberdave]

I'm assuming you received this as an email, but what day is this supposed to occur on?

[Virgo]

I say the same as the man above me.

I would like to get more of a real "reference card".
When where these studies made? Is there another article about it somewhere on the web? Etc etc, the list goes on...

Otherwise, I thought it was really cool :2thumbs:

[jeffweeder]

I came across it at WWW.geocities.com/prophets_realm/ .The bible is full of these farout claims, enough to put you off, why put them in their..unless its true of course. hehehehahaha

[regdude]

It's a nice story, but the NASA part is fiction.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/j/joshuaday.htm (http://)

[DontBeAfraid]

LOL.... missing day? Why is this still in the science section? And why is there not a bogus section for jeff to post in?

[Havoc Angel]

LOL.... missing day? Why is this still in the science section? And why is there not a bogus section for jeff to post in?

Isn't the religion forum the bogus section? I mean, all the major nutcases around here have some religious disorder. I am already starting to miss the conspiracy nutcases, heck, even a end-of-the-world-tomorrow lunatic would be great for a change.....
It's starting to hurt :bondage:

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

jeffweeder DISPROVES law of thermodynamics!

Scientists at the highly prestigious "AnswersInGenesis.org Science Society" ( ASS ) today have shockingly managed to disprove one of the Laws of Thermodynamics, the one which states that something cannot be created from nothing. They painstakingly performed strict experimentation on a human subject who is only known as jeffweeder. They starved the subject, who shall henceforth be known as "Fucked-Up No-Dick Yutz" ( FUNDY ), for several days which resulted in the bowels of FUNDY being completely evacuated. In an attempt to be honest, FUNDY then told the scientists that, although his bowels were emptied of shit, he was not COMPLETELY emptied of shit what with him having shit for brains. The scientists, wanting FUNDY to just shut the fuck up, gave him a piece of tin foil to distract him. For the next several days, the scientists were STUNNED at how much BULLSHIT FUNDY was able to pull out of his ass despite there being no shit in his bowels at all. This finding CLEARLY goes against the Law of Thermodynamics as FUNDY was able to create BULLSHIT out of nothing at all. This phenomenon was dubbed "Boy I'm Being Laughably Entertaining" ( BIBLE ) by the AIG.org scientists. Further testing is currently underway to confirm the suspicion that FUNDY also suffers from the affliction that affects many people in the southern U.S. known as "I've Never Been Really Educated Duh" ( INBRED ). More to follow...

[DontBeAfraid]

omg!!! Bill your comedy gets better and better.

[jeffweeder]

GOD is above the law would be a fair statement? This article didnt come from a i g , but it was found under the heading of end time Phenomina. I just thought it interesting that the bible would throw this story in, seeing as it is something you couldnt expect to believe in, unless of course this god does exist as a real entity in the authors mind, otherwise he'd be putting everbody off reading any more of his literature, as it is , its written, The biggest test of the bible is centred around his people. LOOK. it is beginning isnt it?

[Philosopher Foelhe]

This article didnt come from a i g , but it was found under the heading of end time Phenomina.

It's good that you're drawing from more than one source, but given regdude's link, it still seems your article is built off false information.


I just thought it interesting that the bible would throw this story in, seeing as it is something you couldnt expect to believe in

I think this example falls apart when you realize that people do believe it. The bible is built on a frame of incredible stories which could not logically take place. This is then tied to an omnipotent, benevolent God, who is believed to have only our best interests at heart. And the "unbelievable" stories, such as yours, seem tempting, since it's nice to have someone that powerful working in our best interests. So, given that framework, I'd say the bible plays its role well, from the view of manipulation. And when you look at it in that light, throwing something that sounds this illogical only makes sense.


LOOK. it is beginning isnt it?

People have been saying this for the last thousand years. I still haven't seen anything that makes me think they're right.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

This article didnt come from a i g
There IS a God !!! And I hope that you don't consider a Geocities website to be a reliable source seeing as it's just a community site where anybody can create their own website for free. Speaking of your source: I clicked on the link and it took me to a website that looks an awful lot like a Role-Playing Game site. What gives?


omg!!! Bill your comedy gets better and better.
It's easy when you've got good source material, such as jeffy, to work with...

[jeffweeder]

(quote) pf
People have been saying this for 1000s yrs.
Just my point, but the test is that these jews get there land back and thats against all odds. They have hung on as a people to these promises, and now in this generation they are back in the land. Its like a miracle ,seeing as they are few in number, but an even bigger miracle is required to stay put...as predicted a time of terror will descend ,and the whole world will be drawn into this and descisions have to be made as to who it belongs to. God is very clear about it...its his, and the world wont agree. Is this occuring or am i dreaming? Dont the jews still celebrate all these events? Aren't you just a little bit intrigued? Even the arabs confess that abraham is there root stock as do the jews, just a different mother. They even control the tomb in hebron where other biblical figures are buried. Yes we have evidence of a tomb, we have the confession of bitter enemies that they are half brothers.BUT jacob (israel) got the inheritance of the land and esau (arabs) got the lands the other side of the jordan...(.and all the oil. ) Read gen33-36 for a bit of the story..(the answers in genesis)----thought youd like that one bn

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Just my point, but the test is that these jews get there land back and thats against all odds.

I'll admit I'm a bit shaky on my history, but didn't Israel come into being because the U.S. gave them the land, basically? And then helped them build armies and weapons when the other countries in the Middle East declared war? And don't forget the psychological advantage of a people fighting to defend a land they believe is holy.

That's still an impressive victory, even with all those factors in their favor. But I don't think it's as miraculous as you're trying to paint it.

[jeffweeder]

There's always been a jewish presence in the land, but after ww1 the british held mandate over it after the defeat of turkish mohammedism. WW2 of course set the precedant for a HOMELAND. lol they are dwelling in their historic land , really only the bible will tell you what it is. The palestinians had heaps of time to set up a state if they really believed it was theirs. People will fight for their land whether they think its holy or not. Anyway i think it was gods promise to them that he wouldnt abandon them forever and would bring them back and make them a nation again that was holy to them, they never lost hope did they? Why are they hated so much?

[Philosopher Foelhe]

lol they are dwelling in their historic land , really only the bible will tell you what it is.

And how do you think that land was chosen, Bob?

What we have here is called a "self-fulfilling prophesy". The U.S. is and was mostly built on the bible, and they were the ones who chose to give the land back to the Judaists. Being surprised because the Jews got back their land is like being surprised because you left a list of groceries on the table for your wife, and when you got home from work the fridge was full.


People will fight for their land whether they think its holy or not.

That's true. But believing God is on your side tends to give people an edge in combat.


Anyway i think it was gods promise to them that he wouldnt abandon them forever and would bring them back and make them a nation again that was holy to them, they never lost hope did they?

Yes, but it was the U.S. that gave them Israel. And it was the U.S. that helped them defend it. While God may have been working through the U.S., that scenario is not miraculous or even all that strange.


Why are they hated so much?

By the Palestinians? Imagine if you bought land and built yourself a house, lived there for several years, and then one day someone came by and said, "Some other people used to live on this land, and they want it back. So we're kicking you out onto the street. And there's nothing you can do about it." How would you feel about that, Jeff?

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

jeffweeder Discovers Miracle !!!

A bunch of people who pretend that they are scientists over at the prestigious AnswersInGenesis.org Science Society ( A.S.S. ) announced today the incredible discovery of a legitimate miracle by one of their most prominent members, jeffweeder. This member, whose impeccable qualifications include him belonging to organizations such as "Fucked-Up Cock Knockers Easily Deluded" ( F.U.C.K.E.D. ), "No-Intelligence Morons Really On Drugs" ( N.I.M.R.O.D. ) and "Totally Amusing Religious Dickhead" ( T.A.R.D. ) has pointed out that Israel's mere existence is a miracle in itself. Jeffweeder was quoted as saying, "Never in the entire history of our world has there ever been a situation where a country has invaded another country and taken it over. Never has there been a country defending itself against its enemies. I have decided to name this phenomenon, whereby countries fight eachother, WAR. This is indisputable proof of a miracle." When asked for further comment, Mr.Weeder declined, saying that he had important scientific research to conduct on the AnswersInGenesis.org website which recently won the Website of the Year award. This award was presented by a pharmaceutical website that specializes in Cialis and Viagra for the sole purpose of tricking AIG.org into putting a "Website of the Year" banner link on their website which links to the pharmaceutical site. We sought comments from other prominent Religious figures such as Jake99 and kerravon. When asked about the miracle, Jake99 responded with, "I have the fastest hands this world has ever seen. You wanna see?" and kerravon chastised me with, "Where were you when the Iraqi women were getting raped? Shame on you!"

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

What we have here is called a "self-fulfilling prophesy". The U.S. is and was mostly built on the bible, and they were the ones who chose to give the land back to the Judaists. Being surprised because the Jews got back their land is like being surprised because you left a list of groceries on the table for your wife, and when you got home from work the fridge was full.
GREAT analogy, PhilFoel! Jeffy doesn't realize that the Bible has been read over a gazillion times by religious nutbags who are willing to do whatever the Bible says. Having foreknowledge of a prophecy and then doing what the prophecy says does NOT fulfil it. Any prophecy that describes something that human beings have the ability to perform and control BEFORE it has actually happened is self-fulfilled. Such a prophecy can only be said to be truly fulfilled if the prophecy itself has remained a secret and is only revealed AFTER the prophecy event has taken place. Obviously, keeping a prophecy secret is not necessary when the events mentioned in the prophecy are out of man's control as would be the case with natural disasters. Thus, only prophecies about natural disasters can be legitimately fulfilled with the possibility of human tampering out of the way.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Thus, only prophecies about natural disasters can be legitimately fulfilled with the possibility of human tampering out of the way.

Well, I dunno about that. You just have to make a prophesy that's well-documented enough pre-event to be considered legit, but which wasn't known to anyone who had an effect on the situation. Granted, that's a narrow line to walk.

[jeffweeder]

I dont know why youre having such a hard time with history. So we continue the theorising ,, so sad. If you want to believe America returned the land to the jews ,well im not surprised at you coming to a conclusion such as this. The beauty of prophesy is that you can tell of events before they happen, and well we've all read what b nye has said about that( talk about comedy gold) .A famililiar pattern in the ot is that god will use an enemy, or people who have nothing to gain, to bring about its fullfilment.. an example would be the jewish messiah... the last day of his life was foretold over a 400 year period by just about all the old test prophets, living at different times ,under assyria, babylonian and persian reign. REFER to a genuine response to ot post. All these being out of jesus or the disciples control.....please explain this. bnye, you quoted me as saying that never in the history of the world.....etc, please wrap those quote brackets around it and post in next response!
Seeing as you are on your guard in relation to human tampering of the genuineness of things, IF ONLY YOU PRACTISED WHAT YOU PREACH. ... or would you like me to post a couple of articles on how these evolutionists have bent and twisted so called facts.
What is your problem with this god of the bible bn, just what has he communicated that doesnt sit right with you. I reckon the dna between you both is similar . Lets call it moral dna...answer the following....If someone killed your wife what would you do, what would you expect to happen next.....If you caught your neibour peering over your back fence, gloating over your wife or boat, what would be your reaction. someone stole your ferrari, what do you do, ....somebody in court testified untruths about you and your family, and got you convicted, your reaction..

[DontBeAfraid]

Jeff....... I started reading your post thinking, "hey maybe last week was just not jeffy's best because He is making a coherent argument this time( mind you coherent does not equal good); but then you spin off into outerspace.... We dont hear all the thoughts you have in between each sentence you type and it is my contention that many of these thoughts that dont quite make it to your keyboard are quite important to the points you truely want to make.

[jeffweeder]

what can i say? The last 6 years have been quite difficult for me , and last week someone close died. My wife became sick with a mystery neaurological illness that left her unable to walk in 1999 ,At the same time she had liver problem and to top that off she had a clot travel to her lung( luckily).So i guess i havent been on the ball as i should, I'm trying. I wish i could find the words to express myself better. I think ive been a little misunderstood . I am just being myself , and i dont attend church. I smoke. I drink, I swear like bnye does, people are surprised when they find out that i am a believer, if only i didnt open my mouth...its a difficult thing expressing spiritual things, so one must learn to read between the lines and you may have just done that...

[Philosopher Foelhe]

So we continue the theorising ,, so sad.

Yeah, how pathetic of us to actually have an understanding of the intricacies of how the world works, rather than shutting our eyes and assuming God does everything. We poor, educated, logical, well-spoken and well-respected souls.


well we've all read what b nye has said about that( talk about comedy gold)

Y'know what's even funnier? The fact that you're the only one who's laughing.


A famililiar pattern in the ot is that god will use an enemy, or people who have nothing to gain, to bring about its fullfilment..

We have nothing to gain? Dude, we gained an ally in the Middle East. An area where allies are few and far between. Obviously your grasp of international politics is about as firm as your grasp of science.


would you like me to post a couple of articles on how these evolutionists have bent and twisted so called facts.

Given you've accused evolutionists, that would be expected of you, yes.

I'm honestly sorry if things are rough on you, but this is a debate and things get rough 'n' tumble sometimes. Just think about what people say, and don't dismiss things out of hand. You'll get better at things.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

or would you like me to post a couple of articles on how these evolutionists have bent and twisted so called facts.
That would be GREAT! Please do!


answer the following
Uh, okay. This should be interesting...


If someone killed your wife what would you do, what would you expect to happen next
The police would capture the murderer and then he/she would be sentenced to jail...


If you caught your neibour peering over your back fence, gloating over your wife or boat, what would be your reaction.
If he was ogling my wife, I'd confront him and tell him to stop. And I wouldn't give a shit if he ogled my boat ( if I HAD a boat ).


someone stole your ferrari
I'd report it to the police and then I'd file an insurance claim and get another Ferrari for free...


somebody in court testified untruths about you and your family, and got you convicted, your reaction.
I'd be pissed and I'd file for an appeal...


what can i say? The last 6 years have been quite difficult for me
You have my sincere sympathies, jeff. You've definitely had it rough...

[jeffweeder]

Thanks for the kind word, You probably know the point i am alluding to, in that you agree that gods laws are good, and if broken you demand justice, you shall not kill, you shall not covet,you shall not bear false witness,etc. So when these happen to us personally, we see the need for these things, Imagine if you couldnt get justice legally...it wouldnt be good. ...

[Sammy56]

I've heard the missing day thingy before. There is no truth to it. http://www.snopes.com/religion/lostday.htm

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

What is your problem with this god of the bible bn, just what has he communicated that doesnt sit right with you.
Here's an example for you. Now, keep in mind that this article is NOT an opinion, it is NOT conjecture. It is STATISTICS, as pure and simple as it gets. This article can be found HERE (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html)

Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: “Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

“The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. “I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states,” he added.

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

“The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator."

“The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”



in that you agree that gods laws are good
I most certainly DON'T agree on this. You're basically admitting that it's okay to stone your kid if he is disobedient. That's pretty fucked up, jeffy...

[Beatnik Bob]

Jeffweeder, isn't the sight you got that article from also a porn sigh....I mean, isn't it rather bogus and untrustable?

[Beatnik Bob]

Here's an example for you. Now, keep in mind that this article is NOT an opinion, it is NOT conjecture. It is STATISTICS, as pure and simple as it gets Statistics can be flawed.


Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills. I note that this reporter views abortion as a crime....which is of course an opinion...
And of course most Christians are going to be asses...most humans are Christians...and humans are asses.
Just because you believe in evolution doesn't mean you don't murder, rape, etc.

The only thing this reporter proves is that Christians are malicious...and a fact that is evident to almost everyone is that Christianity is the largest religion, and most people are evil.


I most certainly DON'T agree on this. You're basically admitting that it's okay to stone your kid if he is disobedient. That's pretty fucked up, jeffy... Well, there isn't actually any records whatsoever prooving that this law was ever enacted. It was really just a threat to get kids to obey. What parent would stone their child? Come on Bill.
Really...it was never used as anything other than a threat for kids...like the elaphant man getting you at night if you don't clean your room or something...it's just that stonning seems more plausible/realistic than an elaphant man kreeping up on you while you sleep....

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Jeffweeder, isn't the sight you got that article from also a porn sigh....I mean, isn't it rather bogus and untrustable?
Actually, jeffy's favorite website, www.PedophilePriests.com is pretty accurate...


Statistics can be flawed.
But the margin of error is usually plus or minus a couple of percentage points at the most...


I note that this reporter views abortion as a crime....which is of course an opinion...
Sure, I'll give you that, Bob. I personally don't consider abortion to be a crime as I'm pro-choice...


Just because you believe in evolution doesn't mean you don't murder, rape, etc.
I never said that, nor do I think that this article is saying that. The gist of it is that the more prominent that religion is in a society, the worse off that society is...


Well, there isn't actually any records whatsoever prooving that this law was ever enacted. It was really just a threat to get kids to obey.
It doesn't matter if it was ever enacted. The simple fact is that GOD Himself DEMANDED that a child be stoned if he/she was disobedient. NOT stoning your kid when he/she is disobedient is DISOBEYING GOD HIMSELF! Why is it okay to ignore THIS particular law, but so many Christians insist on being ASSHOLES and insist on upholding God's law when it comes to homosexuals? Christians outright IGNORE the stoning law ( and a MILLION other ones as well ), but they VEHEMENTLY uphold the law against homosexuals. This is what I like to call pick-and-choose religion. They only adhere to that part of their religion that is CONVENIENT for them. And they practice this pick-and-choose religion in which they are only PARTLY obeying God, while condemning atheists for not obeying God. THAT is the very essence of HYPOCRISY. And, of course, they deny that they do this which just compounds the hypocrisy...


What parent would stone their child? Come on Bill.
MOST people wouldn't do ANYTHING of the sort, of course. YOU, Bob, wouldn't do anything of the sort, and I wouldn't do anything of the sort. BUT, just turn on the evening news on the television and you'll see STUPID parents doing STUPID things to their kids virtually EVERY DAY. Here's one example that pissed me off on a personal level just a couple of months ago. First, I have to tell you the backstory. My wife and I have been trying to conceive a baby for the past 2 years, the last year of which was under the care of a fertility specialist. Needless to say, nothing has worked so far. We will keep trying for a little while longer, but we've conceded that it may not happen for us. That's fine. We've accepted this and we are currently going through all of the red tape that is involved with the adoption process. This was an easy next step for us because my wife herself is adopted. At first, we had to fill out this LONG application which involved us having to answer MANY essay questions. This took SEVERAL hours. We had to give references and our friends and family had to go through a similar process, although not quite to the same extent. We had to have a formal police background check performed on both of us ( we were BOTH clear, smart asses! ). The next step, which should start in a couple of weeks, involves us going to parenting classes which consists of NINE 3-hour sessions on wednesday nights. That is a TON of bullshit to have to go through to adopt a child. But we are willing to go through the process. One night, I saw an article on CNN.com that described how a married couple in Ohio had NINE adopted kids. As a way not only to discipline their kids, but often a way to just keep them under control, they kept all nine kids in LOCKED CAGES. My wife and I deserve a child of our own just like anybody else. These MORONIC parents LOCKED THEIR KIDS IN CAGES. And WE have to go through this rigorous process to be approved to have ONE kid. But we KEEP hearing about BAD parents EVERY DAY and the STUPID things that they do to their kids which ranges from harmless punishments all the way up to the parents actually KILLING their kids. It DOES happen, Bob, no matter how deplorable we know this to be...

[jeffweeder]

really sorry to hear that bn , every couple should have there own child and i hope it happens for you , i'd be lost without mine. Hey!! pedophiles and the like are expressed as recieving this punishment by god--: It would be better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the deepest ocean trench, so their end is much much worse, and deserved. Please dont link me with this mob bn, fair go.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

really sorry to hear that bn , every couple should have there own child and i hope it happens for you
Thank you, jeff. I'm sure that it will happen, it's just a matter of exactly how and when. It's just frustrating to see so many people who really shouldn't have kids can have one night of passion and that's all that they have to do to get a kid.


Please dont link me with this mob bn, fair go.
I really don't link you with these assholes, jeff.

[Beatnik Bob]

Bill, it doesn't seem fair for them to make you go through all that, when people everywhere, all they have to do is have sex (and the birth process) and they have a kid.
But anyway:


I never said that, nor do I think that this article is saying that. The gist of it is that the more prominent that religion is in a society, the worse off that society is... All I meant is this: Suppose evolution becomes the largest form of belief practiced in the world...suppose like 99% of humans belive whole heartedly in the theory of evolution...and look down and spit on creationism. Suppose this happens, think about it...

When everyone are evolutionists, it doesn't mean everyone will be righteous and good. Because most of humanity is made up of ass-holes, so even if most of humanity is an evolutionist, it won't make a difference because humans are still just naturally nasty. And the same would go for the time period today, most people follow religion, and most humans are asses (no matter what belief...although I agree the belief affects it by a few percents).

But anyway, couldn't the same be said for Evolutionists? It is a fairly rascist belief, saying that Africans are closer to monkeys than anglo-saxons.



It doesn't matter if it was ever enacted. The simple fact is that GOD Himself DEMANDED that a child be stoned if he/she was disobedient. NOT stoning your kid when he/she is disobedient is DISOBEYING GOD HIMSELF! Why is it okay to ignore THIS particular law, but so many Christians insist on being ASSHOLES and insist on upholding God's law when it comes to homosexuals? Well, the obvious answer is that Christians don't accept the mishna (set of word associations dealing with society). Because the mishna says to NOT stone your child, but rather take all routs necessary to make them a decent citizen (One being to threaten...becuase it does work). By the way, what book does this stoning thing come from? Because Duetoronomy wasn't written by G-d.
And if you got it from Leviticus, well....the laws in Leviticus aren't that important, the main point of Leviticus is this, "Thou shall be HOLY for the LORD your G-d is HOLY." And the Hebrew word for holy has very different associations and meanings than the English word for holy. By holy it is asking people to do good deeds. All Leviticus is is a call to positive action, and the laws are just advised routes for THAT TIME PERIOD OF 3000 YEARS AGO. The Torah is meant to be changed to fit daily modern life. Because the Torah asks people to progress, and at the same time be good people, thus asking for a bit of editing.

But yeah...I HATE it when Christians preach about things they don't know about. They say homo-sexuality is bad becuase the Torah says it is, but they don't exactly know why it's bad, which is a bad thin in itself.
I can understand though why you would think it's wrong to think homosexuality is wrong, becuase you've never actually heard about what makes it considered bad. The only reason the Torah looks down on homosexuality is becuase sex is considered a very religious act. And it is said that right as you are having sex, you fleetingly expirience G-d, the joining of masculine and femenine. And it is considered a mockery of G-d to join masculine and masculine, or femenine and femenine, becuase G-d is both. (This is why it is also considered a mockery to portray G-d as a male human, such as Christians do).

Well anyway, just a thaught for the day.



Christians outright IGNORE the stoning law ( and a MILLION other ones as well ), but they VEHEMENTLY uphold the law against homosexuals. This is what I like to call pick-and-choose religion. They only adhere to that part of their religion that is CONVENIENT for them. And they practice this pick-and-choose religion in which they are only PARTLY obeying God, while condemning atheists for not obeying God. THAT is the very essence of HYPOCRISY. And, of course, they deny that they do this which just compounds the hypocrisy... Yep, that is completely true. One reason is that they don't even understand half of what they preach becuase they don't realize what it means, so they choose to do exactly what you have illustrated.

But the most importsnt non sense of their very existance is that they think they have all the answers. They think all they have to do is accept Jesus and live an eternal life. They think they have every answer to the universe, but in fact they sit on a small dung hill of knowledge, located right next to a mountain, but they like wallowing in their stenchous dung hill, whole everyone else is trying to find answers by climbing the mountain. They just aren't open minded.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Suppose evolution becomes the largest form of belief practiced in the world
There's the problem! Evolution is NOT a belief at all. With all due respects to your beliefs, Bob, I believe that evolution is simply the way that things are. It's NOT a religion. It's not something that one practices. Evolution does NOT affect my life in ANY way at all. It doesn't dictate how I behave. I don't go to a church with stained-glass windows of Darwin and I don't pray to Darwin. If evolution were to be completely disproved at some point in the future, then I wouldn't shed a single tear for it. Most religions tend to focus on WHY things are the way that they are. I don't particular care about why. Science focuses mainly on HOW things happen.


When everyone are evolutionists, it doesn't mean everyone will be righteous and good.
Agreed. The study essentially says that, in relative terms, society might be better off without religion. The study is simply pointing out that, not only does religion NOT make everybody be righteous and good, it actually makes people LESS righteous and good than societies where religion is less prevalent. It's all relative, not absolute...


It is a fairly rascist belief, saying that Africans are closer to monkeys than anglo-saxons.
I'm not going to open up that can of worms! BUT, if something is a FACT, then it is a fact. There is nothing racist about stating a fact. For example, some African countries such as Ethiopia consistently produce gold-medal marathon and long-distance runners. Saying this does not make me a racist. However, stating an opinion about a particular race, such as the KKK saying that black people are ruining the world, that has no factual basis to support it can be considered to be racist.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Okay, so I'm a little late to the party, but when has that ever stopped me?


RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

Isn't this sort've a chicken-and-egg question? I mean, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe the poor are more likely to be religious, and also more likely to commit crimes. I know we're talking about a national level here... and actually, that part I'm more skeptical about. The only highly religious country listed here is the U.S. (unless England is considered semi-religious). Is that really conclusive? We basically have one country which is highly religious and has a high crime rate. But the correlation there could be coincidental, or it could be caused by a separate variable.


What parent would stone their child? Come on Bill.

Now? Or when the Torah was written?

Keep in mind that, a hundred years ago, hitting your child wasn't illegal. Hell, most people considered it good parenting. And that's because parents considered their children simple property. If you had to beat them to show them who's boss, so be it.

I know it sounds crazy to us today, but at that time it really wouldn't surprise me if killing a child who was disobedient was no different than killing a dog who bit.

And even if it was just a threat to keep the kiddies in line, I'd still say that's pretty damn unethical.

[D34DGuY]

I just want to say one thing. (quote, me) "There is no such thing as "God", A very nice fairy tail...nothing more....."

[Beatnik Bob]

Does it really matter that G-d existed or not, or that we must be like G-d. Leviticus 19:1 Be holly for the lord your G-d is holy.

It doesn't matter that much whether G-d existed or not. The Torah is simply a fundamental call to action D34DGuy. The original Torah sugests that actions are more important than what is actually worshipped. Though it's easier to get people to do things when they follow a G-d whose every word is thaught by its followers to be true.

Have you ever walked down the street and helped a homeless person D34DGuy? You were G-d when you helped that person, so it exists.


Now? Or when the Torah was written?


Keep in mind that, a hundred years ago, hitting your child wasn't illegal. Hell, most people considered it good parenting. And that's because parents considered their children simple property. If you had to beat them to show them who's boss, so be it. Try 3000 years ago.

And it was never actually carried out. Just a threat to promote good behavior. Besides, its been so long...who knows if it even deserves a literal translation.



There's the problem! Evolution is NOT a belief at all. I believe that evolution is simply the way that things are. It's NOT a religion. It's not something that one practices. But it is a belief.
Bill, there are so many ideas of how a religion is. You think a religion is where someone hands out books and preaches. Others think it is the way to enlightenment and happiness. Many see it as a way to live our lives and a form of culture. But the basic fundamental single common idea promoted by relgion is the searching for knowledge.

Buddhists might use insense while meditating and chanting, and muslims might walk around the Ka'bah, and evolutionists might study texts describing a theory, and use these texts and mathematical equations to date bones and such.

Evolution is just another way someone was searching for an answer. Many people speculate there were two humans in the beginning and a snake, and others speculate that over 4 billion years...it is what it is today.

Can you see the connection?

Buddhists use chanting to find their answers...and evolutionists use carbon dating to find their answers. You consider carbon dating more concrete and valide than meditating... but they are still different paths persuing wisdom. Many and the same (to a certain extent).

Not to mention that science is always changing, you think you are scientifically right, but another theory will come along that says those equasions are wrong and that carbon dating doesn't do what we thaught it would. This is much like a belief known as Judaism, with its ever changing Talmud.


if something is a FACT, then it is a fact. There is nothing racist about stating a fact. But evolutionists, as some Christians do as well, also take it too far by stating that everything thats farther down in the evolutionary path should die.
Christianity teaches love, but Christians don't always follow this path.
Evolutionism says we are all from the same sourse and it doesn't matter, but some evolutionists still commit many atrocities in the name of non-evolved enough (if that's even a word :D).

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Try 3000 years ago.

Try what? I'm not sure if you're contradicting me or saying that things were better back then.


And it was never actually carried out. Just a threat to promote good behavior.

While I agree that threatening to kill your children is better than actually killing them, I still don't think that's exactly the best parenting method. I'm curious how you know it was never carried out, however.


Besides, its been so long...who knows if it even deserves a literal translation.

I'm big on free speech, but there is a point where metaphors become sort've dangerous, and I'd say this would definitely be one of those times. This verse may be hinting at something that has nothing to do with child rearing, but anything that advises people to kill helpless children - even if that's not the meaning intended - is ill-advised.


But it is a belief.
Bill, there are so many ideas of how a religion is. You think a religion is where someone hands out books and preaches. Others think it is the way to enlightenment and happiness. Many see it as a way to live our lives and a form of culture. But the basic fundamental single common idea promoted by relgion is the searching for knowledge.

I'm gonna stir up a ruckus on both sides and call it a "theory". On the one hand, I don't know how well-established the evidence is for evolution, but since almost everything scientists put out is considered theory, I'd be surprised if this was well-established enough to be indisputable.

On the other hand, I don't agree with your belief that religion is purely the search for knowledge. There's an emotional component to religion as well, one that is found when a Buddhists and Muslims reenact their religious rituals, but which is missing from evolutionary study. I don't really see the study of evolution as being any different from, say, the study of cooking. Now, there are some people who get carried away when it comes to evolution, but I suspect evolution mostly serves as a collary to atheism, which does contain the emotional side of religion. Evolution itself is not a religion, or a "belief" as we seem to use the term here. Just my two cents.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

And it was never actually carried out. Just a threat to promote good behavior. Besides, its been so long...who knows if it even deserves a literal translation.
There's a double standard at work here. FAR too many times, Bible believers quote passages from The Book to back up their claims. But when the Bible says something that they don't like, such as the stoning your kid thingy, it's passed off as something figurative. First of all, who decides which parts of the Bible are figurative and which parts are literal? And second of all, if SOME parts of the Bible are figurative, then it's at least POSSIBLE that the ENTIRE Bible is figurative...


But it is a belief.
I still disagree with this, Bob. Let's take gravity for example. Gravity just IS. It's not something that you have to believe in and you don't have to use blind faith to accept that gravity exists. It simply EXISTS.


But evolutionists, as some Christians do as well, also take it too far by stating that everything thats farther down in the evolutionary path should die.
This is a bizarre statement. I'm not aware of ANY evolutionists that think this way. Can you provide any quotes to confirm this?


but some evolutionists still commit many atrocities in the name of non-evolved enough
Again, can you provide any examples to clarify this statement?

[Havoc Angel]

The loophole (some) religous people use with their therory this, belief that argument, is they don't dsitinguish between knowledge and belief, but rather set them at the same level. It's semantics, really.
So i give here my definition of belief and knowledge that should make the difference clear:

belief: something that i accept as true even when i have never experienced it by myself (and if you go farther add: even beyond my own reasoning and logic)

knowledge: something that i have experienced by myself and others are able to reprouce that experience by the same means.

of course we could now start a debate wether or not a human is able to experience things the same way as any other human or a debate about truth, perception and human limits but i'd say that would better fit in its own topic.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

belief: something that i accept as true even when i have never experienced it by myself (and if you go farther add: even beyond my own reasoning and logic)

knowledge: something that i have experienced by myself and others are able to reprouce that experience by the same means.

... Wait, by that argument, isn't evolution a belief? I mean, none of us have truly experienced species-wide evolution, have we? On the other hand, some religious folks could be said to have a "knowledge", as they have experienced speaking in tongues, spell-casting, enlightenment through meditation, jibber-jabber, jibber-jabber.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

Wait, by that argument, isn't evolution a belief? I mean, none of us have truly experienced species-wide evolution, have we?
Foelhe, here's a very good page that I found that nicely ( and quickly ) summarizes some of the different aspects of certain sciences that support evolution, including some forms of short-term evolution that have actually been witnessed ( eg - fruit fly speciation ( drosophila )). It's a wonderful short overview of evolution. Check it out HERE (http://pls.atu.edu/physci/geology/people/baker/geol2024/fossils_htm.htm) ...

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Intriguing! Thank ya kindly, Bill.