Any Kabbalists here ...??

[Raptor Witness]

Are there any Kabbalists here?

[liberdave]

Why? Want to start a cabal? :nudge: I've got the know how if you've got the will. :thumbs:

[Bernard's Insight]

God damn Lizard, satanist bastards.

No, there aren't, because Kabal is the biggest load of bollix I've ever heard in my life, perhaps even worse than scientology, and that's saying something.

[Raptor Witness]

:amaz: :52: :amaz:

Thanks Bernard, best laugh of the week on that reply. If we were all saints, there would be no need for a prosecutor, know?

I see no reason to serve the prosecutor, but the Judge, I deeply love.

[Raptor Witness]

Why? Want to start a cabal? :nudge: I've got the know how if you've got the will. :thumbs:

Liberdave, I'm just curious what kind of crowd swirls around this site. We do have some things in common, however. Aries, and Libertarian.

[liberdave]

Liberdave, I am just curious what kind of crowd swirls around this site. We do have some things in common, however. Aries, and Libertarian. Ahhh, a fellow enlightened thinker, I applaud you on two things..
1) Throwing out broad, sweeping questions to gain a good idea of the demographic.
2) Doing your research on your fellow posters and previous posts.
We need more folks like you on these boards.
:2thumbs:


God damn Lizard, satanist bastards. Lizard? I am not familiar with your usage of the word, what do you mean? And I can assure you, 100% of the Kabbalists I've meet/scene/talked to, had a deep spiritual belief in the God of the Hebrews. Here's some insight, Bernard. (http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm)


No, there aren't, because Kabal is the biggest load of bollix I've ever heard in my life, perhaps even worse than scientology, and that's saying something. Now wait, just because you think that Kabbalists are "bollix", that means that there are no Kabbalists in here? Interesting. So your opinions actually dictate the quantity of an entire demographic? Amazing. Oh, and even worse than Scientology? Can you back any of those statements... with... with.... insight?

[Beatnik Bob]

Yeah, kabbakism is just a level of Talmud. Maimonides was a kabbalist and he translated the mishna (interpretations called Talmud).
So sure, I'm a kabbalist since all kabbalism really is is a belief in symbolism of Torah. Kabbalism is just the heart of Judaism and I'm Jewish...so i suppose it fits.

[CruelGrenadier]

Are there any Kabbalists here?
Kabbala is an interesting subjekt for studying! I know about it not much. But as i remember Hollem had his life from three or four kabbalistik sighns. According to legend when Hollem became "Violent" Rebbe Bezalel took holy papers out of his forehead and ordered to bure clay monstour on the roof of Staromestskaya Sinagoga.
I have to appologise but
if some white radikal bustards hate and disrespekt Kabbala and Hebrew this only shows that they are dirty nazi asshols!And They'll take one day their punishment! :Bott: :bondage:

[Beatnik Bob]

Well, don't get to worked up about it there buddy. I, for one, think it completely perfect for an individual to have their own opinions. They can dissagree with it however much they like, it doesn't bother me. (Note: as long as no violence is resorted to).
But don't have an anurism about peoples possible reactions so Cabbalah. Seriously, it isn't good to start it out on this sight calling people nazis for their opinions.
The best thing you can do is not respond to hostility with hostility.

[Cartesiantheater]

I know this a little off the subject, but I've always wondered, do Jewish people believe in Hell? I've always wondered where the idea came from. I've never read any sort of reference to Hell in the Torah, but I haven't read anything straight out of any other Jewish Religious material. It's all second hand. But I was just wondering if Hell is a Jewish concept believed like it is with Christianity, the bastard child of Judaism. Where in scripture did this idea come from?
Thanks- and please don't be offended by my "bastard" comment. I don't mean to sound durogitory. It's just that although Christianity came from Judaism, the two faiths have parted ways in some significant ways.
:)

[jinxz]

The concept of an underworld where sinners received punishment after death does have roots in Jewish scriptures and tradition. People refer to the Jewish Hell as "Gehenna." The name comes from a valley south of Jerusalem where children were allegedly sacrificed to a pagan god known as Moloch. The Jewish concept of Gehenna was probably influenced by the Greek concepts of Hades and Tartarus, and likely by some Mesopotamian cultures as well. Hades (the place, not the god), was originally not so much a place of torment but simply a place where the spirits of all the dead went and persisted in some sort of shadowy, half-existence. Tartarus was where the damned were punished, and at first this was only believed to be a small handful of "wicked" characters from mythology. Later on Hades and Tartarus seemed to more or less merge and the idea became a concept much like the Christian hell, a place where the souls of all wicked people are punished and burned. In much the same way Gehenna seems to have developed from a dusty shadow world to having a more diabolical character as time went on. As of today, there are many different branches of Judaism and the emphasis they place on the idea of Gehenna varies markedly. Though it's a good bet that the more conservative the sect, the more likely they take Gehenna seriously.
If you still want to know more about Jewish Hell or Gehenna, why not ask a Jew?
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=115&letter=G (http://)

[Cartesiantheater]

I appreciate your response to my question. It is very interesting stuff. But I was hoping maybe some one on this post who is Jewish would give me a "believer" based answer rather than an agnostic one. Maybe Beatnik Bob, who said he was Jewish a couple of posts ago. Thanks to whichever Jewish people decide to answer the question of the concept of Hell in Judaism, and thanks for the agnostic answer as well. Everyone knows in detail about the Christian concept of Hell, maybe because Christianity has basically taken over in the Wester World. But everyone I know seems to assume that Judaism is just a faith that is basically Christianity without the New Testament, and I'm certain this is not true. But the point is that in places like the Bible Belt, there is very little public knowledge about Judaism, and even less knowledge about the differences between Christianity and Judaism. So basically, I'm writing this so that if any Jewish people would like to tell a little about their faith and educate me, I'd been very grateful to listen. I guess we can start off with Hell, and then see where we go from there.
Thanks

[Raptor Witness]

I don't believe in a Hell of everlasting torment per se. It doesn't make any sense to keep torturing people in Hell as an example or as a trophy. It makes much more sense to view Satan as the refiner of men's souls, and their accuser, which seems to stem from some long standing argument between God and Satan. In fact, one could argue that man's entire existence is the result of this argument.

Some have speculated that Lucifer was once fully in charge of the earth and perhaps other planets in our solar system, before the fall. Afterwards, God stepped in to create a true image of Himself, as an example to Lucifer. Lucifer's punishment for rebellion is to watch the creation and evolution of man, and when the refining is done, to be destroyed, while the souls of the just fill the void in Heaven left after the fall. A third of Heaven rebelled, and a third of mankind will replace this void. Hence the gates to Hell are wider, etc.

These are fascinating concepts to ponder and consider, and I'm sure no one is exactly right, but there's no harm in debating the possibilities. If I, as a man, cannot see torturing even the damned human souls for eternity, then I can't see my God doing this either. Man cannot have MORE compassion than God.

[Cartesiantheater]

That's interesting stuff. I've heard of one monotheistic sect that believed that Hell was total destruction rather than eternal punishment. Besides, punishment is usually given to teach a lesson or to hinder crime. I can't see Hell accomplishing this... Unless God is planning on having more intelligent life creation encounters in the future... but I don't know...
Any other ideas? :burnin:

[jinxz]

I've heard some theologians argue that "hell" is simply a state of being separate from God - that God does not punish people by sending them to hell, it is instead the natural consequence of one's sins which are by nature incompatible with God. Therefore it would stand to reason that if or when one's soul was purged of sin, they would be able to reunite with God and enter "heaven." In this view hell would be more like what we more commonly refer to as purgatory, since it would not be everlasting and its function is to purge unprepared souls. But I'm pretty sure this view never caught on with any mainstream sect - I believe those Catholic theologians who expressed it were labeled heretics.
:52: :bondage:

[Raptor Witness]

Sometimes I think that I'm already in purgatory, having to deal with PAST temptations all over again. :bondage:

[Beatnik Bob]

Eh...I've been quite bussy these past months and only just got to this thread...burried in the depths of time...
But anyway, since I was spicifically adressed...i shall comply.

Okay, read something about Gehenna...
Yes, it was indeed where children were sacrificed to Moloch, and for this reason it was said to be accursed, and over time became synonymous with "Hell". But of course...this happened over time, which means it does not hold many similarities with the original Gehenna, and is thus an impaired truth. For example, Gehenna becoming hell over time, is like Auschwitz becomeing to mean Hell. Yes, Auschwitz was hell-like, but not an actual place of existence that most percieve as 'Hell'.
Well, about the only Jewish referances to a "Hell" is in the practices of Cabbalah, where we make our own hell on Earth, a Midrash Tannaim locates hell as side by side with paradise, and there is a fleating mention it in the book of Job, but the word "hell" was added (into the Christian version) by geuss and a bit of context, but we really don't know the meaning of the word used in much detail, even the original Hebrew word is a bit not understandable, and is the only word of it's kind ever recorded in the whole Mishna (Torah, Ket'huvim, Nevi'im, and the rest which generally keeps then name of the 'mishna').


But if you're interested in the 'differences between Christianity and Judaism' you should see the thread 'It's Rather Pathetic....'