do you love god or afraid from god [Archive]

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interlover

Jan 31st, 2006, 2:03 AM

Philosopher Foelhe

Jan 31st, 2006, 8:16 AM

Honestly, I don't really feel much for God either way. I generally try for more of a perceptive view of God - if he's kind and loving, why? If he's destructive and petty, why? I kinda find it hard to relate emotionally to such an abstract notion.

Freakshow

Jan 31st, 2006, 8:26 AM

My relationship with God is similar to my relationship with my parents. I love them, but I'm afraid of pissing them off.

Godsgifttomankind

Jan 31st, 2006, 10:09 AM

Hello interlover, welcome and thank-you for your question.

This question of perception touches the very essence of ones relationship being that with God or any other being. When we act out of our love for someone and do all that we can for them this is a very joyous event, when we act based upon fear then this is a sad and oppressive situation. God is by no means an oppressor or tyrant but is the greatest Lover and Redeemer, it is God that frees us from the bondage of fear that we and the rest of humanity have placed ourselves in.

We are given the choice to live our lives based upon Love or based upon Fear, the core of our being rejects the idea of living within an abusive relationship but it is only through our own choice and determinate action that we can begin to live within a healthy and loving relationship.

The message of Christ was a message of Love and forgiveness, tempered in such a way to encourage those that heard his Gospel (Good News) to change from the corruption of fear and oppression that had taken hold of the followers of Moses, to be aware less they would miss the precious gift that God had provided for them. Time and the wills of men to rule over there fellow man has created a change in that message that is clear and evident in this day.

The Message of Mohammed was a message of Love and Respect having such an effect on the peoples that received it, that it changed the very fabric of their being and created within them an example of leadership based upon love and forgiveness that the surrounding peoples placed themselves under the protection of such a caring and compassionate group. Time and the desires of men perverted the message and corrupted the system that had been put in place to give us the example that we see in this day.

There are consequences for each of our actions, when we choose to act in a love and compassionate manner we aid in the growth of a healthy and dynamic community; however when we act upon fear or create fear in others we assist in the promulgation of an abusive relationship.

God has given us the tools to put an end to all relationships that place ourselves and others into bondage and oppression.

Peace is inevitable and it starts within each one of us, so if you have a relationship based upon fear that relationship is not with God but with an image created by men and it is that image that has yet to see it's ultimate destruction.

Beatnik Bob

Jan 31st, 2006, 3:37 PM

in my self i think iam afraid from god more than loving god
i dont love god because he makes so many rules for us Well, I don't see anything wrong with rules. Some of the rules (mostly Duetoronomy) aren't really needed anymore...were only needed 3000-2000 years ago.

But there's nothing wrong with rules...especially rules such as THOU SHALL NOT MURDER, it keeps humans from acting like chaotic animal beasts. We can all agree with that whether we're religious or not. We need rules, whether set down by the government, or G-d.
But sure....I don't see any reason to practice rules meant for a society 3000 years ago. I believe it's ok to translate the Torah to modern times....if you want to progress, which I believe might have been a goal of G-d's.

forbidden the sweat things such as sex and alcohols ( of course no one care this days ) Didn't Abraham have sex? Why do you think sex is bad?

and iam afraid because i may end in hell if ididn't .
*Sigh* The atrocities of Christianity. Scaring people into their relgioun.

But how could you ever think hell existed? What makes you so sure?
Hell was really just an aspect invented by a pope.

ltwild3

Jan 31st, 2006, 9:12 PM

You are given the choice to be a Christian. God gave us free will. If you don't like the idea of living by God's rules than you don't have to. It is a free gift to accept him. It just depends where you want to go when you die. God loves all of us. He would not creat us if he didn't. He's giving you the choice to love him. God is perfect. The reason we go to hell if we don't believe in Christ dying for us( a gift for us to go to Heaven) is because God can't live with imperfects. He would not be Perfect living with sinners. There fore he gave us the choice to love him or not. :2thumbs:

Philosopher Foelhe

Jan 31st, 2006, 10:54 PM

See, it's not a choice if you get thrown into hell for making the wrong one. It's blackmail. And it's kind of twisted.

Interlover, my advice to you - if you feel crushed by the weight of Christianity, throw it off. People talk about hell all the time, but it's all so damn arbitrary and useless. There was a debate on the forum as to whether or not Adolf Hitler was a Christian. While he claimed to be one, some people on this forum suggested that he wasn't a "true" Christian.

So ask yourself this: If Hitler went to Hell, even if he claimed to be a Christian, then what good is it to claim the same title if you don't feel anything but dread from it? And if Hitler went to Heaven, then what kind of God are you worshipping, anyway?

Normally, I don't advise people on their religious choices, but you don't seem happy with where you are. I'd suggest you try to be a good person in this world, and hope everything in the next one sorts itself out.

ltwild3

Feb 1st, 2006, 6:14 AM

Any one can say they are Christian. That does not mean they are. People think being Christian means saying you are Christian. People go through hard times in life.

Philosopher Foelhe

Feb 1st, 2006, 8:45 AM

All the more reason to leave the religion if it just makes you feel trapped. You're not doing yourself any favors making yourself miserable for the rest of your life, only to die and have God say, "Nope! Crossed my fingers!"

Godsgifttomankind

Feb 1st, 2006, 10:00 AM

Hello Philosopher Foelhe,

See, it's not a choice if you get thrown into hell for making the wrong one. It's blackmail. And it's kind of twisted.

When we examine the physical world around us, we know that there are consequences for our actions. If you pick up something that is hot you will get burned. This world is about growth and learning if we as individuals fail to listen, learn and come to an understanding do we have anyone to blame for our ignorance but ourselves?

Interlover, my advice to you - if you feel crushed by the weight of Christianity, throw it off. People talk about hell all the time, but it's all so damn arbitrary and useless. There was a debate on the forum as to whether or not Adolf Hitler was a Christian. While he claimed to be one, some people on this forum suggested that he wasn't a "true" Christian.

When someone is weighed down and crushed it is called pressing or in this case oppression. The gospel was meant to set everyone free, how is it that in this day it has become a force of oppression?

The eternal fire is for those that desire to be pure of faith, it is a refining process similar to that used to make gold as pure as possible. The greatest example within Christianity was that of Christ himself, it is the path of purity. Many believe that they can bypass this step in the process and that is between them and their creator.

So ask yourself this: If Hitler went to Hell, even if he claimed to be a Christian, then what good is it to claim the same title if you don't feel anything but dread from it? And if Hitler went to Heaven, then what kind of God are you worshipping, anyway?

The idea of forgiving someone for the wicked things that they do is a very foreign concept in our societies, we act on the idea that justice in it's greatest form is incarceration or removal. The God that I worship and adore is both loving and forgiving, it is through God's mercy and Love that the darkness that exists within each one of us is turned into light. It is the unconditional love of God that melts away the anger and hatred that exists within each one of us. We all have an ego that makes us act with the same destructive manner that is reflective of the Nazi regime. If God was not able to forgive Hitler for his atrocities, how is it that each of us can be forgiven for our past present and future actions that oppress our fellow man?

Normally, I don't advise people on their religious choices, but you don't seem happy with where you are. I'd suggest you try to be a good person in this world, and hope everything in the next one sorts itself out.

This is excellent advice and if I may suggest you take it one step further, it is ignorance that creates this despair that exists within each one of us; study and search for an answer for what it is that is causing you to feel this way. Salvation is the act of being set free or set at ease, it is the action of removing the burden or yoke that has been placed over ones shoulders.

New Creature

Feb 1st, 2006, 12:02 PM

The eternal fire is for those that desire to be pure of faith, it is a refining process similar to that used to make gold as pure as possible. The greatest example within Christianity was that of Christ himself, it is the path of purity. Many believe that they can bypass this step in the process and that is between them and their creator.

This is right on the money. There is no eternal damnation in hellfire. It is appointed for man once to die, physically, Our bodies have to die in order to "put on immortality" so then how can a spiritually body feel pain in fire? The natural body cannot be burnt for eternity! anyone see the logic in this? It is mans device that invented eternal hellfire. I would elaborate on your thought of "those who desire to be pure" but I do not know your stance. Please give a little more detail of your understanding.

*My view is that in this life or at the judgement (if we haven't decide thus far) we will have the choice. And yes, there may be some that flat out refuse. But for the most part when we stand in the Presence of God the Father we WILL CHOOSE to be purified.

ltwild3

Feb 1st, 2006, 2:06 PM

ltwild3

Feb 1st, 2006, 2:11 PM

Maby Hell is torture because we are away from God for eternity. God could have described it in human terms so we could understand it. Maby our spirital body has different desires, like being with God. If were not with him it might be torture.

New Creature

Feb 1st, 2006, 2:58 PM

Why would any one reject God if he is right in front of you. You would want to be with him, he is perfect. The choice is given to us while we are here because this religion is based on faith and trust. You are saved through faith, not facts. God wants you to trust him and believe his word.

There are plenty of examples of people rejecting God. Judas Iscariot comes to mind. Or lets go further back all the way to Adam and Eve. Didnt they reject God when they disobeyed him?

ltwild3

Feb 1st, 2006, 3:56 PM

They did not reject God, they sinned, made mistakes. Every one does. When Judas figured out what he did, he realized that he messed up badly and killed him self. Same with Adam and Eve, they loved God and liked being with him, they just made a mistake. I believe and follow every word of the Bible. We all just get different meanings from it because our minds work differently. No one can truly understand what God is saying until we see and ask him.

ltwild3

Feb 1st, 2006, 3:59 PM

And no man has taught me these ideas. This is what I personally think when I read the Bible.

New Creature

Feb 1st, 2006, 5:17 PM

You can see I edited my previous post as to take out the personal debate. I didn't mean to say that.

However I don't think the bible is open to personal opinion or interpretation. (God forbid we would have billions of interpretations) My whole objective as of late is to show people (if I am able) the true meaning behind the Gospels of Christ. God new full well Adam and Eve would fall and succumb to sin. This is the way he designed us! To think otherwise would be saying God is not sovereign.

If everything is going great and we have no worries, sorrows, sadness, or needs how can we contrast the Love of God to the despair of living in sin? So God knows EVERYONE at one time or another WILL reject him. This is all apart of trials tribulations. Peter rejected Christ. Three times to be exact, (so heres your rejection reference) However, GOD NEW HE WOULD. He told Peter he would. This is all part of Gods plan.

ltwild3

Feb 1st, 2006, 7:23 PM

New Creature

Feb 1st, 2006, 9:32 PM

I agree, God has a plan for all of us. He knew we would talk about this on this forum. His plan is huge because every one has a key role in it. Which also brings up the question of free will. :dunno: I stand neutral at this point though. I don't know what to think is true about that. I have good arguments about both sides. What do yall think???

Excellent segway!! Fear not, I now a guy (internet only)who has studied this out and has nothing but truth on his side.

If you want the absolute biblical truth check out The Myth of Free-Will Exposed
@ http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html

A perfect example would be the Peter statement in my last post. Is that free will? Peter told Christ that no matter what he wouldnt deny him. Yet Christ said he would. Peters "free will" wanted to stick with Christ but God was in control.

ltwild3

Feb 2nd, 2006, 6:16 AM

Nice! I agree with what he is saying, but maby we have free will but God already knows the choices we make. :dunno:

Godsgifttomankind

Feb 2nd, 2006, 9:28 AM

Hello ltwild3 and New Creature,

The question of freewill has to do with recognition, rebellion and impartiality. Many commonly believe that freewill is a free pass to do whatever we choose without consequences, the physical world shows us that every action that we take has an impact on ourselves and those around us. Freewill is an active conscious decision to place ourselves underfoot just as the example of Ruth in relationship to Boaz. It is not something that can be forced by those around us but there is a great amount of energy that is expended in keeping each of us from choosing to do what is right.

God knows that each one of us will follow our own desires and vain imaginations, aligning ourselves with systems and understandings created by men of noble intentions but clearly lacking the inspiration of our glorious creator. We all have the ability to recognize that which is of God and that which is born of the corrupt desires of men. As a child we all have tried to free ourselves from the authority of our parents and in the process have learned to respect the loving role that they fulfill. God is that perfect loving parent that allows us to be rebellious and to live away from him, to make mistakes and to finally to turn in supplication to his everlasting providence.

Within this world that we live many images of God have been portayed, yet there is only one true image that we must all search and recognize. It is that presented by Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Mohammed and all the other messengers of God, the challenge to us all is in recognizing that the image of God has been distorted by the followers of each one of these great teachers and yet it is still possible to unveil the rhetoric to see God for who he truly is.

We are all saved by faith but it is wisdom and understanding that provide the cornerstone for that faith.

Beatnik Bob

Feb 6th, 2006, 8:57 PM

And no man has taught me these ideas. This is what I personally think when I read the Bible. Then you are coming to the same conclusions that Jews invented 3000 years ago.

But why would G-d ever create people with the knowledge of what would happen to them in the end anyway? What is the Christian idea of this? Why do Christians think G-d made us, knowing everything already in the first place.
The only person that's getting anything out of this is G-d, becuase humans aren't, since we don't even have free will. We're a dog on a leash.
I know what my religion says, but what does yours say?

Wednesday

Feb 25th, 2006, 2:02 PM

My relationship with God is similar to my relationship with my parents. I love them, but I'm afraid of pissing them off.

This is beautiful in it's simplicity, Freak.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Feb 25th, 2006, 3:25 PM

My relationship with God is similar to my relationship with my parents. I love them, but I'm afraid of pissing them off.
Yeah, but I'm sure that your parents don't sentence you to eternal damnation in hell when you miss your curfew. God is just a little extreme...

Godsgifttomankind

Feb 25th, 2006, 4:27 PM

Hello Bill,

Yeah, but I'm sure that your parents don't sentence you to eternal damnation in hell when you miss your curfew. God is just a little extreme...

When God blesses you and your wife with a child in your life, is it your plan to be an abusive father?

No, but you are going to love that child and protect that child with all the ability that you have and that child is going to love you and do what you ask based upon the love that you have shown that child. That childs relationship with you will be based upon the love that you give and the more love there is the greater the relationship will be.

If God's love for you is greater than any love that you could ever show to that child, in proportion that your love for that child will be in finite measure while God's love is infinite. God is extreme but not in the ways that you believe.

You came into being through a word be and it was and so the creation process continues.

Love your wife with all your heart and soul and out of the bond of that Love, a new life will come forth, a gift for which you will praise God.

The child shall be called Nickey for it was a victory after a difficult conception.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Feb 26th, 2006, 2:58 PM

do you love god or afraid from god
Maybe this excerpt from the CNN article found HERE (http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/25/schlosser.trial.ap/index.html) might help answer this question:
Saturday, February 25, 2006; Posted: 9:57 p.m. EST (02:57 GMT)

McKINNEY, Texas (AP) -- A judge declared a mistrial Saturday in the murder trial of a woman accused of fatally cutting the arms off her 10-month-old daughter.

...

Police arrested Schlosser in November 2004 after finding her baby Margaret, known as Maggie, dying in her crib, and Schlosser covered in blood, holding a knife and listening to a hymn.

The prosecution argued that she knew what she was doing, showing the jury grisly photos of the dead baby and emphasizing several witnesses' observations of Schlosser as a healthy, seemingly sane mother.

But psychiatrists testifying for the defense told jurors of multiple psychotic episodes Schlosser detailed to them. One doctor said Schlosser told him she felt commanded by God to cut off Maggie's arms, followed by her own limbs and head. Schlosser had a deep cut on her shoulder when police found her.

Yeah, I think that we should be afraid of him...

The child shall be called Nickey for it was a victory after a difficult conception.
Thank you for your well-wishes, GGTMK. But now you're freaking me out, dude! My wife and I have thought for YEARS that, if we had a girl, that we would probably call her "Nikayla" ( or some other spelling ). HOW did you do that?

BlueLiger13

Feb 26th, 2006, 5:48 PM

I dont hate or love god, i simply dont belive. he hasnt done anything that i know of taht affected my life.

Godsgifttomankind

Feb 27th, 2006, 5:14 PM

Hello Bill and thank-you for your reply,

Thank you for your well-wishes, GGTMK. But now you're freaking me out, dude! My wife and I have thought for YEARS that, if we had a girl, that we would probably call her "Nikayla" ( or some other spelling ). HOW did you do that?

When you ask for something be sure that it will always be delivered, not in the manner that you believe but in God's way and in God's time and by the one that he chooses. This is not the first of many signs that have been placed before you and it is that one must understand that names are chosen before the beginning of time and it is by your name that you are known, it is your very life and breath.

Do you think that it was a coincidence that you chose the name 'Uruk-Hai', given your work and your relationship with God?

How do you think that the veil is going to be removed from your eyes, unless God is able to show to you through His servants exactly that which has been there all along. It is not a matter of changing who you are but presenting enough information for you and everyone else to see exactly who you are.

Nikayla comes from the Greek nicos which means to be victorious and aura meaning breeze or breath. The breath of God is conception.

If you think that you are freaked out now, just wait because the show is just beginning and it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

Philosopher Foelhe

Feb 27th, 2006, 5:21 PM

Yeah, I think that we should be afraid of him...

I don't think we need to be afraid of God. I think we need to be afraid of people who believe in him. Ever hear the prayer, "Lord, protect me from your followers"?

Einstein700

Mar 26th, 2006, 10:02 PM

in my self i think iam afraid from god more than loving god
i dont love god because he makes so many rules for us and forbidden the sweat things such as sex and alcohols ( of course no one care this days )
and iam afraid because i may end in hell if ididn't .

Fear is related to evil, God should be all about love, goodness, positivity and order. Perhaps its just the devil in disguise!

Your not going to hell ok! Trust me, i will see you in heaven and we will party all night long. There are far worst degrees of 'sins' on this earth!

Godsgifttomankind

Mar 27th, 2006, 9:31 AM

Hello Einstein and thank-you for your post,

Fear is related to evil, God should be all about love, goodness, positivity and order. Perhaps its just the devil in disguise!

The lack of Good within something is not a disguise, it is exactly what it is no good and those that adhere to no good must bear the consequences for their actions along with everybody else that their lack of good touches.

Your not going to hell ok! Trust me, i will see you in heaven and we will party all night long. There are far worst degrees of 'sins' on this earth!

If you are partying while there are people out there that need your help and assistance, do you think that people and yourself won't suffer because of your failure to act?

Loving God is not about partying in Heaven it is about acting on earth and doing what is right for the people that are around you. We affect the world around us by the choices that we make and failure to be responsible for ones actions creates a 'hell' for everyone else. This is not meant as a condemnation but as an encouragement to treat others in the way that you would want to be treated.

Now

Mar 27th, 2006, 9:47 AM

Love your style David. Kindest Regards.

I am in the "Love God" category, because I can't conceive of a jealous, frightening, vindictive god who is to be feared. This sounds more like a projection of the human egoic mind to me.

The God I love breathes through me, is my very essence, and exists in a way that without it, nothing exists. And even that nothing would also be God.

For those of you with scientific minds who would like me to offer empirical evidence, forget it, I can't. This is beyond the mind, and can't be explained by the mind. I'm not conscious enough yet to understand in a way that I can relate it to anyone else. But the Love I feel is real, and that is a knowing, beyond a belief.

Regards, Now.

Godsgifttomankind

Mar 27th, 2006, 10:19 AM

Hello Now and thank-you for your reply and kind words,

Love your style David. Kindest Regards.

It is a choice that I have made based upon that which God has made clear before my eyes and I thank God for that Gift.

For those of you with scientific minds who would like me to offer empirical evidence, forget it, I can't. This is beyond the mind, and can't be explained by the mind. I'm not conscious enough yet to understand in a way that I can relate it to anyone else. But the Love I feel is real, and that is a knowing, beyond a belief.

You ability at this time to offer empirical evidence may be limited but if you ask, God will show you that it is possible, my walk with God was started on the basis of empirical evidence, for God is able to speak from every realm of existence.

You have a great ability to put forth a clear understanding of the ways of God, keep up the great work.

geronim0

Mar 27th, 2006, 5:35 PM