The proof of God to come this Fall. [Archive]

UVsaturated

Jul 25th, 2006, 12:35 AM

With the current events in the Middle-East escalating, there will be no turning back the peace process this time. Soon, Syria and Iran will be drawn into the conlict around the beginning of August and then the rest of the world. The coming months will be the most violent eruption of warfare the world has ever known.

August 3rd/4th:
Fire like a terror (http://www.exodus2006.com/fab/8-ab-2006.htm)
August 3rd (http://www.exodus2006.com/sutton/3aug2006.htm)
Day of the Sign (http://www.exodus2006.com/fab/4aug2006.htm)
World War (http://www.exodus2006.com/fab/war2006.htm)
Proof in 2006 (http://www.exodus2006.com/fab/in2006.htm)

But through his sign and the revealing of his sons, the Kingdom of Heaven shall be established on earth forevermore, right after the events of the coming days.

Fall of 2006, probably the Feast of Tabernacles on Oct 7th/8th
Come near Elijah! (http://www.exodus2006.com/elijah.htm)

Ningishiddza

Jul 25th, 2006, 1:22 AM

Soon, Syria and Iran will be drawn into the conlict around the beginning of August and then the rest of the world.

Iran? Are you suggesting that 1200 amphibious landing craft are going to fall out of the sky and land upright in the Persian Gulf? Or are you suggesting that 800 Il-76 Candids are going to magically appear at Iranian air bases?

It's a long walk from Iran to Israel. Gotta go through the mountains then on into Iraq. I don't think US and Iraqi forces will be handing out Gatorade to Iranian troops as they pass through.

Sure, the Iranian president talks a lot, but that's all it is, rhetoric. The Soviets/Russians did/do the same thing. They never did a single thing they threatened to do (very obviously since the Suez Canal has operated unimpeded for the last 50 years).

So, which do you prefer, the cherry kool-aid or the grape?

UVsaturated

Jul 25th, 2006, 1:57 AM

It's a long walk from Iran to Israel. Gotta go through the mountains then on into Iraq. I don't think US and Iraqi forces will be handing out Gatorade to Iranian troops as they pass through.

Even though I know you speak light heartedly, have you never heard the biblical quote that the anti-christ will make "fire from the sky" in full view of men? In the old testament, this was a judgment where God physically created a pillar of fire fall down from the heaven to consume his enemies. The anti-christs equivalent is none other than what we know as rockets and bombs, which literally creates fire from the heavens. The Iranians nor the Syrians need to send in troops to annihalate Israel. Iran probably does have nuclear capability already. Just because the US intelligence says it (Irans weapons grade uranium) probably won't be ready until later this year doesn't mean they are correct. Our intelligence agencies are not infallable. It is certainly plausible that Iran has already developed a device and is ready to use it. How hard is it to move a bomb close enough for there rockets to deliver it? Not hard.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Jul 25th, 2006, 1:43 PM

A world war? Surely a world war would portend the end of the world! None would survive a world war! And we shall call it... World War I. What's that? What's that, you say? Errm... we've already HAD World War I? Oh. Jesus. All right. Then surely none would survive a SECOND world war! What will become known as World War II would UNDOUBTEDLY be the end of the world as we know -- what? Are you shitting me? There's already BEEN World War II? How are we still here? Damnation! UVsaturated hath deceived me! I'm outta here... << angrily throws down his "the end of the world is nigh" sandwich board and steps down from his soap box >>

donniedarko

Jul 25th, 2006, 1:55 PM

Bill, I quite literally just shat myself. LMFAO!!!! :Bow:

loganosborne

Jul 25th, 2006, 2:12 PM

Soon, Syria and Iran will be drawn into the conlict around the beginning of August and then the rest of the world. The coming months will be the most violent eruption of warfare the world has ever known.
I doubt Syria and Iran will be invovled early August. In the news recently haven't heard that much about Syria and Iran.

A world war? Surely a world war would portend the end of the world! None would survive a world war! And we shall call it... World War I. What's that? What's that, you say? Errm... we've already HAD World War I? Oh. Jesus. All right. Then surely none would survive a SECOND world war! What will become known as World War II would UNDOUBTEDLY be the end of the world as we know -- what? Are you shitting me? There's already BEEN World War II? How are we still here? Damnation! UVsaturated hath deceived me! I'm outta here...
Bill I do know what you mean but remember weapons would be much more powerful than what they would have been in World war 1 or 2. By the way im not saying I think it would end the world im just stating a possibilty that it could.

Cartesiantheater

Jul 25th, 2006, 2:24 PM

Bill, I quite literally just shat myself. LMFAO!!!! :Bow:
Buahahaha! Hahaaha! Sorry, Donnie. The legendary Bill does have that affect, no? I hope you feel relieved, at least. :Bog:

loganosborne

Jul 25th, 2006, 2:29 PM

Buahahaha! Hahaaha! Sorry, Donnie. The legendary Bill does have that affect, no? I hope you feel relieved, at least. :Bog:
Now how many times has bill left me in that state. :crazy:

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Jul 26th, 2006, 8:07 AM

My apologies for catalyzing all of the shattage. You guys KNOW that you love it. SAY MY NAME, BITCHES!!!

Doomer

Jul 26th, 2006, 12:19 PM

OMG, another Jake99 :gtfo:

Perfectionist

Jul 26th, 2006, 2:06 PM

Dang it !!

Why couldn't you let us know that WWW3 was gonna break out in August like 6-12 months ago !!

I coulda gone on a Credit Card fuelled sex and drugs orgy all aroung the world !!

But NO !! - you tell us only one week before dont ya !!

Sammy56

Jul 26th, 2006, 4:45 PM

Sorry, but I'm busy on August 4th and my plans don't include the end of the world. You're just going to have to pick another day.

Philosopher Foelhe

Jul 26th, 2006, 5:53 PM

Heh. I can just imagine getting a call from God's receptionist. "Good evening. The Almighty God is attempting to schedule Armageddon. Will you be free on the sixteenth?"

Hey, this explains why the bible said the Apocalypse would happen during the disciples lives! That was the original plan, but there were scheduling difficulties, so the end of the world was postponed.

2Hybrids

Jul 27th, 2006, 5:06 AM

I've got it on my calendar...say, around 2-ish....am taking a late lunch and want to be back in time to be ready. But I gotta be out by 3 cuz I have to shat myself.

should I just quit my job now?

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Jul 27th, 2006, 8:37 AM

My family is coming over for a barbecue the next day. Could we somehow postpone it for a day or two? I'll throw a live bull on the cue in order to sate God's bloodlust. It's worked before, right?

Hey, this explains why the bible said the Apocalypse would happen during the disciples lives! That was the original plan, but there were scheduling difficulties, so the end of the world was postponed.
Yeah, people seem to conveniently forget this teeny fact...

But I gotta be out by 3 cuz I have to shat myself.
One of the things that's supposed to happen during armageddon is there's this cool monster dude who has something like seven heads and ten horns on each head who comes up from underground. So don't worry, you'll shat yourself when you see THAT badass mofo...

jeffweeder

Jul 27th, 2006, 9:04 AM

hummm, bill may have a point- ww1, ww2, still here.
But we forget the obvious here, Israel was not a nation then, and they werent gathered back to the land. So the end of the world prophecies that the bible talks about, has this as the spark, to all the trouble that will bring the world down.At the same time, their has to be some way that this conflict would destroy every living person. How could this happen 50 years ago?

I am not one for putting dates on anything, although it is intrigueing that both solomons temple and herods temple where destroyed on the same day ,think it was aug 3.
But we have been given sign post, which is the Jewish people back in the land.
There are some strange ( but cool ) allusions to the type of weapons used, check these out;

3 The shields of his mighty men are colored red,
The warriors are dressed in scarlet,
The chariots are enveloped in flashing[6][Lit fire of steel ] steel
When[7][Lit On the day of his preparation ] he is prepared to march,
And the cypress spears are brandished.

4 The chariots race madly in the streets,
They rush wildly in the squares[8][Lit broad places ],
Their appearance is like torches,
They dash to and fro like lightning flashes.

5 With[1][Lit Like the noise of chariots ] a noise as of chariots
They leap on the tops of the mountains,
Like the crackling[2][Lit noise ] of a flame of fire consuming the stubble,
Like a mighty people arranged for battle.

6 Before them the people are in anguish;
All faces turn[3][Or become flushed ] pale.

7 They run like mighty men,
They climb the wall like soldiers;
And they each march in[4][Lit in his ways ] line,
Nor do they deviate from their paths.

8 They do not crowd each other,
They march everyone in his path;
When they burst[5][Lit fall ] through the defenses,
They do not break ranks.

9 They rush on the city,
They run on the wall;
They climb into the houses,
They enter through the windows like a thief.

10 Before them the earth quakes,
The heavens tremble,
The sun and the moon grow dark
And the stars lose their brightness.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Jul 27th, 2006, 9:27 AM

Hey, Jeff. What about how the Bible mentions SEVERAL times that armageddon was supposed to happen during the Apostles' generation?

Stabby Joe

Jul 27th, 2006, 9:32 AM

Back to the first original post... erm those Bible codes are made by people who think theres an ark on a mountain... with a picture of Haissie on the main menu... :alcoholic

jeffweeder

Jul 27th, 2006, 8:45 PM

Hey, Jeff. What about how the Bible mentions SEVERAL times that armageddon was supposed to happen during the Apostles' generation?

May i suggest that it does not say that,several times..?
Assuming that your refering to those scripts that say.."this generation wont pass away, till all these things have happened" , consider this,
Jesus spoke in parables-he told stories to illustrate a truth.
You'll notice that when this is said, it is after he tells of his 2nd coming and the end of the world. He then tells them this parable about the fig tree.
OT symbology and thought suggest that the fig tree is Israel.
So when you see israel sprouting leaves, know that summer is near( winter for most ) this generation wont pass until all are fulfilled.

ALSO the word generation can be translated RACE , so it could be said, this race will not pass away till all things happen. This can be backed up with old test that says this about this people;

36 "If this[17][Lit these statutes ] fixed order departs
From before Me," declares the LORD,
"Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
From being a nation before Me forever[18][Lit all the days ]."

37 Thus says the LORD,

"If the heavens above can be measured
And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel
For all that they have done," declares the LORD.

SOME HAVE TRIED TO EXTERMINATE THIS PEOPLE, BUT IT's NOT GONNA HAPPEN

UVsaturated

Jul 28th, 2006, 3:39 AM

Some event will occur around the 1st or the 2nd to Israel which will cause them to retaliate. The general feeling in Israel is that Hezbollah is armed through Syria and their leadership and orders come from there. Iran is also behind this, but Israel will not deal with them directly.

Here is an interview with a political science professor from Israel who can tell you exaclty the gest of the situation and how one major attack on an Israeli city that kills many will direct Israel to wipe out Damascus, which is a bible prophecy about to occur.

Pay attention to what he says about Syria and Hezbollas source of leadership (where it comes from). Combine this with Hezbollas statements regarding the Tel-Aviv warning and you have your set-up for what is about to transpire. He also says the Israelis don't want to enter Syria, but this is not an exclusive statement. They would if they had to if given the reason to do so, with of course the US backing....

Article (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/010676D6-1F09-456F-8C16-6BD44499A644.htm)

jeffweeder

Jul 28th, 2006, 5:16 AM

It seems they've done nothing but retaliate since they've been back there,

The British mandate to govern Palestine ended after the war, and, in 1947, the UN voted to partition Palestine. When the British officially withdrew on May 14, 1948, the Jewish National Council proclaimed the State of Israel.

U.S. recognition came within hours. The next day, Arab forces from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq invaded the new nation. By the cease-fire on Jan. 7, 1949, Israel had increased its original territory by 50%, taking western Galilee, a broad corridor through central Palestine to Jerusalem, and part of modern Jerusalem. Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion became Israel's first president and prime minister. The new government was admitted to the UN on May 11, 1949.

The next clash with Arab neighbors came when Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal in 1956 and barred Israeli shipping. Coordinating with an Anglo-French force, Israeli troops seized the Gaza Strip and drove through the Sinai to the east bank of the Suez Canal, but withdrew under U.S. and UN pressure. In the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel made simultaneous air attacks against Syrian, Jordanian, and Egyptian air bases, totally defeating the Arabs. Expanding its territory by 200%, Israel at the cease-fire held the Golan Heights, the West Bank of the Jordan River, Jerusalem's Old City, and all of the Sinai and the east bank of the Suez Canal.
In the face of Israeli reluctance even to discuss the return of occupied territories, the fourth Arab-Israeli War erupted on Oct. 6, 1973, with a surprise Egyptian and Syrian assault on the Jewish high holy day of Yom Kippur. Initial Arab gains were reversed when a cease-fire took effect two weeks later, but Israel suffered heavy losses.

A dramatic breakthrough in the tortuous history of Mideast peace efforts occurred on Nov. 9, 1977, when Egypt's president Anwar Sadat declared his willingness to talk peace. Prime Minister Menachem Begin, on Nov. 15, extended an invitation to the Egyptian leader to address the Knesset in Jerusalem. Sadat's arrival in Israel four days later raised worldwide hopes, but a peace agreement between Egypt and Israel was long in coming. On March 14, 1979, the Knesset approved a final peace treaty, and 12 days later, Begin and Sadat signed the document, together with President Jimmy Carter, in a White House ceremony. Israel began its withdrawal from the Sinai, which it had annexed from Egypt, on May 25.

Although Israel withdrew its last settlers from the Sinai in April 1982, the fragile Mideast peace was shattered on June 9, 1982, by a massive Israeli assault on southern Lebanon, where the Palestinian Liberation Organization was entrenched.
QUOTE
THE NEXT DAY= MAY 15 1948-JAN 1949 ,they held out 8 mths, against all these nations after being a nation 1 day, bahahaha, yer, their GOD is a phoney..........................its obvious

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107652.html

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Jul 28th, 2006, 9:01 AM

May i suggest that it does not say that,several times..?
May I suggest that it DOES?

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. " -- Matthew 16:28

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. " -- Luke 21:32-33

"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light." -- Romans 13:11-12

"Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." -- James 5:8

"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." -- 1 John 2:18

"But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer." -- 1 Peter 4:7

Jake99

Jul 28th, 2006, 2:28 PM

Doomer,

I am a man that would never allow anyone to bow to me, kiss my ring or refer to me as God. I am not even religious what I promote is common sense just like what Jesus preached. What Jesus suggested I performed and I got the same results he did. Miracles and prophecies one after another. My lifes works are the proof the world is looking for and I hope you take me seriously before someone detonates an atomic weapon.

I also demolished the Massachusetts judicial system when they turned their guns against me in court at Y2K. The four courts and their hundred assistants were no match for me and they cheated and broke law after law while I played fair and legally. I blew the best attorneys and judges in the world out of the water on every point of view in twenty or so hearings and I have been doing that regularly since I was 10. I have a similar track record as a judge and prosecutor and yet I am not an attorney and have never opened a law book.

jeffweeder

Jul 28th, 2006, 6:32 PM

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming[1][Or presence ] of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure[2][Lit mind ] or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message[3][Lit word ] or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy[4][Or falling away from the faith] comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every[5][Or everyone who is called God ] so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming[6][Or presence ];
9 that is, the one whose coming[7][Or presence ] is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs[8][Or attesting miracles ] and false wonders,
10 and with all[9][Or every deception ] the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11 For this reason God will[10][Lit is sending ] send upon them a[11][Lit an activity of error ] deluding influence so that they will believe what[12][Or the lie ] is false,
12 in order that they all may be judged[13][Or condemned ] who did not believe the truth, but took[14][Or approved ] pleasure in wickedness. 2thess2

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Jul 28th, 2006, 7:33 PM

Now how did I KNOW that you were going to post gibberish instead of actually RESPONDING to my post, Jeff? RESPONDING to a post. What a novel idea! Until you at least RESPOND to the SEVERAL examples of scripture that I've posted which PROVE that armageddon was supposed to happen 2000 years ago, your FEEBLE rantings are moot, Jeff. Moot...

jeffweeder

Jul 28th, 2006, 8:32 PM

This is not a response ? This points out that certain things have to take place, before that day can come, the other is of course Israels return from exile.....in other words he is correcting the belief that some had, that the day had come already.

your first qu in post 22,.the very next verses say this- 6 days later, he took some who were standing there, and was transfigured before them, and they saw him, as well as moses elijah in his glorious kingdom

If Jesus meant that he would come back in that generation, why say this parable ..

"Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

Parable of the Talents

14 "For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
15 "To one he gave five talents[1][A talent was worth about fifteen years' wages of a laborer], to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
16 "Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
17 "In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
18 "But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master[2][Or lord's ]'s money.

19 "Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them.

or why paint a picture like this, if he meant he would come back in a few years,

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize[12][Lit know ] that her desolation is near.
21 "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the[13][Lit her ] city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the[14][Lit her ] city; ........
.(this happened in that generation)22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
23 "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land[15][Or earth ] and wrath to this people;
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations;
( this happened also to that generation )
and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles .
....it has been since that generation)
until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.- ( what else could this mean, but a return to the land)
[B]THEN
25 "There will be signs[16][Or attesting miracles ] in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world[17][Lit inhabited earth ]; for the powers of the[18][Or heaven ] heavens will be shaken.
27 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory

UVsaturated

Jul 29th, 2006, 1:42 AM

I truly believe that Jeff is close to the truth of what is going on by the nature of his posts.

What Jesus said about some shall not taste death before he comes in his Kingdom is true and it was meant for those who actually heard him speak this and to us who are living today.

Jesus does sit on the throne of David and he is the head of the body. The body of christ is the church or the "believers". It was predestined that his Kingdom be established at that time 2000 years ago, and what he said was true that his Kingdom was fulfilled while many would not die before they saw it.

He never said that everyone would see it, because only believers can see the Kingdom of Heaven before it is manifested at the end of time.

Nevertheless, it will come to be shown to the unbelievers soon enough. The current situation with Israel is not a passing thing like has been going on before. This current fighting will not be pacified by the world. Both sides will continue and the world will be drawn in.

uki

Jul 29th, 2006, 6:43 AM

don't forget about lucifer and all the fallen angels(aliens, extra-terrestial lifeforms), they are coming and already here to wage war on the saints(we know who we are). they will be literal monsters on a rampage to destroy us. sharpen the swords, don the armor, salvation is here. the age of ignorance is falling away... and it will crash with a bang. peace.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Jul 29th, 2006, 9:56 AM

This is not a response ? No, it is NOT. It is vague and indirect gibberish. You "answer" this way ALL the time. Answer the question DIRECTLY for a change. And IN YOUR OWN WORDS would be nice too...

This points out that certain things have to take place, before that day can come, the other is of course Israels return from exile..... Umm, haven't they DONE this already?

"Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour." This proves NOTHING. "Day". "Hour". This could mean TOMORROW or NEXT WEEK for crying out loud. Damnit, Jeff. You take SO MUCH of the rest of the Bible literally ( *cough cough* Genesis *cough cough* ) and then you PICK AND CHOOSE which parts of the Bible that YOU want to be figurative. How CONVENIENT for you...

don't forget about lucifer and all the fallen angels(aliens, extra-terrestial lifeforms), they are coming and already here to wage war on the saints(we know who we are). they will be literal monsters on a rampage to destroy us. sharpen the swords, don the armor, salvation is here. the age of ignorance is falling away... and it will crash with a bang. peace. Don't worry, folks! Uki and his Army of Light will save us!

Sammy56

Jul 29th, 2006, 12:06 PM

Don't worry, folks! Uki and his Army of Light will save us!
But I thought Jake was our Savior!?

Stabby Joe

Jul 29th, 2006, 12:18 PM

False prophits will come remember...

...or people's minds never changed and the nutcases have more freedom...

Jupiter

Jul 29th, 2006, 5:23 PM

But through his sign and the revealing of his sons, the Kingdom of Heaven shall be established on earth forevermore, right after the events of the coming days.

I prefer that this conflict subsides well before avalanching into something even more terrible.
But I am greatly looking forward to 2007 and onward.

jeffweeder

Jul 30th, 2006, 4:37 AM

This proves NOTHING. "Day". "Hour". This could mean TOMORROW or NEXT WEEK for crying out loud. Damnit, Jeff. You take SO MUCH of the rest of the Bible literally ( *cough cough* Genesis *cough cough* ) and then you PICK AND CHOOSE which parts of the Bible that YOU want to be figurative. How CONVENIENT for you...

What was it i was trying to proove?
Bill ,Your saying that Jesus meant he was returning in that generation, but here jesus says , no one knows the day or hour-( presice moment), and yet your saying that he did know, and it would be in that generation.
All i'm pointing out is, that Jesus has already mapped out a chain of events to happen (see my previous post),
and all the prophets , always have israel returning to the ancient land, so seeing as there are 66 books in this bible, all its authors adding their little bit about doomsday, taking in the bigger picture ,helps you to see it clearer, thats all.

Joel, is one of the oldest of these books, 700-800 BC
If you can accept that it is in fact this old, dont you find the theme of what he is writing about, could be so close to what is and has transpired. The imagery that he uses, etc. You have a foundational christian reference to the book of joel, The birth of the church ; peter's ref to joel. the day the church was born, or rather empowered

This is in ch2 ( of a 3 chap book) and here we have a point in history ,were we know the date =1st century. so reading ch 3 from this point in history is ....well what do you think..?.
people dream dreams and people see visions,..(cerntainly have come along way, by people dreamin up ideas since..)DAN 12 alludes to an explosion of knowledge...
then comes the restoration of JUDAH and Jerusalem,........1948...1967
Its swift and speedy attacks on ...get this...gaza, tyre sidon, in which the latter are caused to go to other nations ( picks himself up off the floor )
This will lead somehow to an all nation response, and what looks to me..the end of the world...as we know it today......1 giant leap for mankind into the eternal dream of bliss and peace for all who want it.

Within this scenario, you have many other prophecies that relate to the same event and time in history.

Ill be here all night telling you about it, so ill let you off the hook ..for now... :grin

RhymnRzn

Jul 30th, 2006, 5:16 AM

then comes the restoration of JUDAH and Jerusalem,........1948...1967

The Zion of God begins at the heart of man: it is a spiritual mountain, exalted above the physical hills and mountains (see Isaiah 2). However, without the word of God being kept from the heart, and faith in Christ Jesus, people are far from Zion, though they stand in physical Jerusalem itself.

jeffweeder

Jul 30th, 2006, 5:28 AM

True, but their is an issue with the land and his promise isnt reliant on their obedience.

RhymnRzn

Jul 30th, 2006, 5:48 AM

Aside from the fact that the entire heavens and earth , and not just the Holy Land, are the Lord's (and the fulness thereof - such as oil), and the fact that the Lord is ultimately going to take vengeance on all of them who obey not the gospel of Christ: do you attempt to justify the carnal warfare?

I acknowledge that repentance is available to men alive and remaining, before the mark of the Beast, including to people of Judaism: but the blind support of carnal war, in the name of defending outward-Israel, is sin.

jeffweeder

Jul 30th, 2006, 6:17 AM

Jerusalem is the spot where things will come to a head. He deals with everyone there, as Israel, and an issue with the land draws everyone else in. Why do you think i justify all this war ? I dont.

I am just saying, that the prophecies clearly state that this slither of territoty, is where the jews will live again , then the end.

RhymnRzn

Jul 30th, 2006, 6:43 AM

For whatever personal doctrine you are holding, your word props up a false definition of Jew, and Israel, as you give no distinction between them who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, and the true Hebrews, who are in Christ Jesus. For that cause I discern your interpretation as false, and lumped you in with the zealot Zionist Nicolaitans (false Christians) who justify the carnal war.

RhymnRzn

Jul 30th, 2006, 7:06 AM

I wonder, have you ever considered that the Gog-Magog war and Armageddon are synonomous?

As the judgement begins at the house of God, we who obey the Gospel of Christ unto love and non-violence, are the people of Israel, who are currently scattered in the four quarters of the earth, bound to gather, to dwell without bars, gates, and walls, harmless; who the prophecy of Ezekiel 38 and 39 is refering.

And in the process of time unto the end, the Antichrist (Beast, King of North, Gog Magog) will gather the marked/Gentile nations to the valley of Megiddo, to form the battlefront aimed at the return of Christ with his saints.

I hope you understand this.

jeffweeder

Jul 30th, 2006, 7:11 AM

This is not the place for a discussion on replacement theology dude .
read into it what you will. The doctrine is the times of the gentiles ending, according to luke 21
You consider yourself in christ jesus, then consider me in Christ Jesus also, thankyou.
oh and a jew in the flesh , without christ, isnt what God considers a True spiritual jew
All who belong to Christ and recieve his spirit, are true jews

RhymnRzn

Jul 30th, 2006, 8:02 AM

This is not the place for a discussion on replacement theology dude .

I was interjecting my word as I saw fit. Let everybody read and judge for themselves.

BTW - Who is replacing the Hebrews of God with false Jews? Not me. I know no man after the flesh, as I am commanded.

read into it what you will. The doctrine is the times of the gentiles ending, according to luke 21
You consider yourself in christ jesus, then consider me in Christ Jesus also, thankyou.

Hey brother, If you are in Christ, then my words (as I am in Christ, I do not lie), and the words of the Lord, can only do you well. We know that there are those who will say "Lord, Lord", but are not doing his will. By all means, examine yourself. I examine my own heart.

oh and a jew in the flesh , without christ, isnt what God considers a True spiritual jew
All who belong to Christ and recieve his spirit, are true jews

I trust you know that every single man alive is beloved for the sakes of our fathers (all men are of one blood), that they may be saved. And for that cause we know no man after the flesh, and put no one on a pedestal, just because of their race, or professed Jewish descent.

Jesus said (John 6:63): "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing"

So, I do not agree with why you, a Christian, do clearly mention Jews in the flesh, as a matter of identifying a people in Bible prophecy, when it is those who believe in the Messiah, who are counted as the seed of promise.

Jake99

Jul 30th, 2006, 2:14 PM

The only thing I can say about the religious books is that if someone talked for 5 minutes the chances of giving an accurate description an hour later is impossible and yet you take the religious books written by men with quill pens 2000 years ago as verbatim. I agree with the religious books in theory about what Jesus was saying. Put the books down, Jesus was about common sense and you don't need a book of complicated messages to understand common sense.

Its not proof of God the world needs its a simple and fair operating system.

Zos Kia Cultus

Jul 30th, 2006, 5:50 PM

Wait, you mean the same bible code that said we were to be struck by an asteroid last year? The same bible code that said Jesus was coming back Christmas 2005? The same bible code that said 6/6/06 we would finally see the antichrist and he would begin his reign?

Yeah, keep dreaming buddy.

jeffweeder

Jul 30th, 2006, 8:22 PM

QUOTE RZ
So, I do not agree with why you, a Christian, do clearly mention Jews in the flesh, as a matter of identifying a people in Bible prophecy, when it is those who believe in the Messiah, who are counted as the seed of promise.[/QUOTE]

So your saying God has abandoned them?, and all the promises he made to them are null and void. STATEMENTS LIKE, I HAVE LOVED YOU WITH A EVERLASTING LOVE ,mean nothing now?
What do these scripts mean then;
ROM 11
1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a[1][Lit of the seed of Abraham ] descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
3 "Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
4 But what is[2][Lit says ] the divine response to him?

11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment[6][Or fullness ] be!
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow[7][Lit flesh ] countrymen and save some of them.
15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich[8][Lit root of the fatness ] root of the olive tree,
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,

If you want to discuss this further, make a new thread....peace

RhymnRzn

Jul 30th, 2006, 9:01 PM

So your saying God has abandoned them?, and all the promises he made to them are null and void. STATEMENTS LIKE, I HAVE LOVED YOU WITH A EVERLASTING LOVE ,mean nothing now?

Thanks Jeff, you have totally ignored what I posted above, and cast offence upon me contrary to the doctrine of Christ.

I'll not be speaking with you, until perhaps you stop wrestling my words, and change the pattern of incoherent babbling found in your postings.

Tortoise

Jul 30th, 2006, 9:21 PM

Jake99

Jul 30th, 2006, 10:25 PM

The words of Jesus are just a concept, a theory, common sense its not meant to be memorized its meant to be utilized which the world is not smart enough to do. Jesus is a dead man but what he said is still the best way to manage this planet.

jeffweeder

Jul 30th, 2006, 10:39 PM

Thanks Jeff, you have totally ignored what I posted above, and cast offence upon me contrary to the doctrine of Christ.

I'll not be speaking with you, until perhaps you stop wrestling my words, and change the pattern of incoherent babbling found in your postings.

Looks like you have ignored the qu's i asked you...politely.
you have accused me of something, that you have read into my posts, which isnt their.
How have i cast offense on you? your the one attaking me.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Jul 31st, 2006, 11:07 AM

Bill ,Your saying that Jesus meant he was returning in that generation, but here jesus says , no one knows the day or hour-( presice moment), and yet your saying that he did know, and it would be in that generation. Once again, you have managed to IGNORE the SEVERAL examples showing how armageddon was supposed to happen 2000 years ago and you just harp on this ONE bit of scripture. Well done, sir. Well done...

I am just saying, that the prophecies clearly state that this slither of territoty, is where the jews will live again , then the end. You seem to be forgetting that this SLIVER of territory was a rather BIG chunk of the "world" back then. The majority of the world was not known back then, thus the KNOWN world was very tiny. So it is HARDLY surprising, let alone remarkable, that these "prophecies" always speak of lands in the middle-east. But let me guess. You didn't think of this, did you? No, of course you didn't...

Thanks Jeff, you have totally ignored what I posted above Yeah, he's GOOD at that...

jeffweeder

Jul 31st, 2006, 7:00 PM

Once again, you have managed to IGNORE the SEVERAL examples showing how armageddon was supposed to happen 2000 years ago and you just harp on this ONE bit of scripture. Well done, sir. Well done...

Whar, your asking for more ? come on

You seem to be forgetting that this SLIVER of territory was a rather BIG chunk of the "world" back then. The majority of the world was not known back then, thus the KNOWN world was very tiny. So it is HARDLY surprising, let alone remarkable, that these "prophecies" always speak of lands in the middle-east. But let me guess. You didn't think of this, did you? No, of course you didn't...

The majoroty of the world wasnt known...bahahahaha
The known world was tiny, hehehahaha, yer the Americs and australia make the world big

They always speak of lands in the middle east, - well seeing as its the cradle of civilision im not surprised, it was the crossroads, hence gallillee of the nations, as it was known.

Was Israel a nation then bill ?
Had they been scattered to the rest of nations?
Well they had to be, and they eventually were,
and now their back

No point disregarding the whole picture, picking and choosing what you want to believe, you taught me this bill....

Yeah, he's GOOD at that...

:bubble: Arent we all...

UVsaturated

Aug 1st, 2006, 2:31 AM

Jeff, jeff, jeff. Why do you try to convince the blind to see when only God can choose his flock? Remember this and keep your eyes on him.

Philosopher Foelhe

Aug 1st, 2006, 11:15 AM

Why do you try to convince the blind to see when only God can choose his flock?

But if God decides who is saved or isn't, and those who aren't go to Hell, then isn't God forcing nonbelievers into Hell?

And apparently God wanted Jeff to try to convince the blind to see. You can't use fate to criticize someone's actions. If God has fated our choices, God fated that Jeff try to convince us. Who are you to criticize the will of God?

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Aug 1st, 2006, 3:09 PM

Jeff, jeff, jeff. Why do you try to convince the blind to see when only God can choose his flock?
I thought that God accepted and loved EVERYBODY. Guess not. Why do Christians even bother to convert people when God clearly hasn't CHOSEN them for his "flock"? Yet MORE nonsensical stupidity in the brainless and brainwashed land of religion. You actually think - nay, EXPECT - that people want to join nimrods like yourself. Rrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiight. Way to perpetuate the stupidity, UV. Keep spreading "the word"...

jeffweeder

Aug 1st, 2006, 6:30 PM

I cant see myself stopping anytime soon, as i really do believe it. And this is of my own accord, as i wasnt raised as one. What id really like is to shut up most christians, as the true message is distorted, bad.
Whats in this for me?
Only frustration...

twistedbutgiftid

Aug 2nd, 2006, 2:06 AM

what does the bible say about the temples being built? are they being constructed now? im jw, i dunno much about it

jeffweeder

Aug 2nd, 2006, 3:41 AM

A lot of the furnishings for the temple, and the garb that they dress up in ,is said to be prepared and ready. All these specifications of course are in the torah part of the bible, first 5 books...somewhere in there.

If they go ahead and build the temple, and go back to their religion, theyll still be in denial of Christ, who freed them from religous rites and sacrifices.

UVsaturated

Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:19 AM

You people know nothing of the truth. The temple is the body of Christ and is being rebuilt as we speak, not like the sham of a temple in Jerusalem that they will never build because Islam will throw a fit over it.

The temple is about finished and it is made of many stones the builders rejected.

jeffweeder

Aug 3rd, 2006, 1:39 AM

I know that UV, but orthodox Jews dont believe that, so theyll build it if they get half a chance. Seems like a good way to get all nations opposed to Israel, as prophecied.

UVsaturated

Aug 3rd, 2006, 2:09 AM

Jeff, not only do Orthodox Jews believe that but many Christians believe that and Islam believes that brick and mortar buildings mean something, which is why there is controversy overy the temple mount in Jerusalem. Two fundamental religions fight over it. There are more, but they are offshoots of the originals.

On more notes, I would like to say that what I posted about the bible codes and August 1,2, & 3rd. I did not post this saying that it was the absolute truth, but just to see the response. It was entertaining to see the yea and nea's from everyone.

I could care less what happens in Israel because my salvation is not one of the physical world. But just to get more people in a hissie, I will add to the original post.

The codes come from Exodus2006, a fairly well known site. Apparently, the primary researchers made a mistake. Although they claim to know how to decipher Hebrew well, they got the dates crossed and it is no longer Aug 3rd, but August 8th. I guess the confusion is in the translation - and I can't argue with it because I don't know the language - but the 8th of Av got confused with Aug 3rd of maybe it was just Aug 8th???? Who knows. Anyway, no one knows dates and times, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt for one simple reason. I believe that they can make a mistake in date setting almost surely, and it led me to another discovery.

The context of these codes translates well with the current situation in the middle-east, so I don't discount them as being unrelated in some form that we don't see immediately. Secondly, the Aug 8 date set for a fire like a terro code fits well with a new discovery by myself as being the day of the sign.

I looked at a calendar today. One of those calendars that show the days accrued and days to go for the year. August 8 is the 144th day of the year in 2006. For people who have read and understand half of Revelation, 144 reminds me of the 144,000 chosen ones of God, or the Sons of God.

Jesus said he is the day and he is the light. If the Sons of God are like Christ, then each on is a day as well. Therefore, beginning in 2006, there have been 144 days until Aug 8th. To God, a day is like a thousand years, so 144 days then becomes 144,000 days. I am leaning towards August 8th being the day of the sign mentioned in that the 144000 are to be revealed. No one knows the day or the hour, but there has to be a time when it is revealed, and if there is a discrepency over a week to just cause last minute confusion then so be it.

My concensus is that even though the authors of the codes made an honest mistake and that the Aug 8 date predicts the day of the sign much better because of the 144th day fact. Furthermore, Aug 3rd is a waxing moon that is half, but Aug 8th is a full moon, symbolizing the fullness of a woman or the anti-christ.

Tortoise

Aug 3rd, 2006, 5:50 AM

grendel 13

Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:44 AM

UVsaturated

Aug 3rd, 2006, 2:19 PM

how convenient that now the date has been changed, of course. i bet when aug. 8 rolls around and nothing big happens the date will be changed again due to some unforseen knowledge. also, in regards to the current situation in the mid east, there is always some sh*t going down there what makes this any different? ten years from now there will be new bible code, there will still instability and everyone again will say, "see with the current situation the codes could be right," yeah whatever.

The difference is, they changed the date before August 1. They discovered their error the 31st of July as per their newsgroup on Yahoo, not after today when it would be obvious that nothing happened.

grendel 13

Aug 3rd, 2006, 2:25 PM

The difference is, they changed the date before August 1. They discovered their error the 31st of July as per their newsgroup on Yahoo, not after today when it would be obvious that nothing happened.

ok my bad, i did not know that it was changed prior to today. i must admit that i too found the code interesting when i first heard it several weeks ago, with all that is going on. but i got highly discouraged after reading the date had been changed, since you have clearified the date change situation, i will eagerly await to see what happens on the 8th. :2thumbs:

Smoke

Aug 3rd, 2006, 5:02 PM

BULL SHIT!

loganosborne

Aug 3rd, 2006, 5:38 PM

UVsaturated

Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:18 PM

What a suprise changing dates already. Whats your excuse when nothing happens on August 8th which is likely.

Why would it be my excuse? I didn't make the codes or find these codes. I am merely pointing them out to people and whatever happens will happen. It is not up to me whether or not their interpretation is correct or not. To me, it is very good entertainment to hear people talk about it, which is what forums are for - discussion.

If you think that anything else happens on a forum besides discussion and entertainment then you are mistaken. So I guess if I had any excuse at all, it would be that I am sorry I couldn't find something more outlandish to talk about and make it into a post.

Zos Kia Cultus

Aug 4th, 2006, 2:31 AM

The difference is, they changed the date before August 1. They discovered their error the 31st of July as per their newsgroup on Yahoo, not after today when it would be obvious that nothing happened.

Wow, if this isn't typical I don't know what is.

Here is a prediction I got the other day..

I was sitting in my room..suddenly..God appeared to me..she said "BEHOLD, FOR IT SHALL RAIN WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR."

So I go on the record saying that sometime within the next year..IT WILL RAIN.

jeffweeder

Aug 4th, 2006, 2:48 AM

Jake99

Aug 5th, 2006, 3:31 PM

Granted, many people believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, as well as a literal "second coming". But to tell you the truth, I wonder if some of these folks would be too busy debating their favoirte interpretations of scripture to even notice if Jesus Christ himself was standing right behind them.

Going to work now. Have a nice day.

Finally, Bravo Tortoise

I never claimed to be Jesus or a God and I never quote the bible because I am the Teacher you are preaching about. You must look at my words through my works for until you see what I have done you cannot understand what I can do.

I am not trained to hurt but to help and yesterday will fall far from memory pretty quickly when you accept the system and leader Jesus recommended. I know which parts of which religious books are correct and no one else does.

Why do nations fight? Religion, revenge, basic needs and economics none of which will be a factor in the world operating system I recommend and can manage to near perfection.

UVSaturated,

You are correct that the temple is the body of Christ not some church on a hill. You can pick the date of the Second Coming just by listening to a teacher who speaks a different language than the rest of the preachers. I have been building the temple of Christ my entire life and I am ready and trained to lead this planet to everlasting peace and prosperity. Ask Exodus2006 to speak with me for the date is in mans hands I did my work.

I am the man with the simple plan that you should strongly consider using globally.

doogle

Aug 5th, 2006, 4:35 PM

jake, i've heard much about you, but never talked to you in person, so this is a hello.

just wondering, i am protestant christian, and i do take the bible quite literally, so just wondering, what is the temple in your opinion, i have heard theories that the temple could be the body maybe? i mean jesus said he could destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days.

and with his death, then resurrection on those three days, it does make me wonder.

because the temple was literaly destroyed by romans etc, so that was a physical destruction.

Jake99

Aug 5th, 2006, 8:22 PM

The temple is the body of Christ and human beings in general. You won't need preachers when the teacher teaches. I like churches, they are a great place to get married and have community events and functions. I do not believe that God wants man to worship him and what I have to say you can download from any computer at any time from anywhere. I am not even religious. Can you imagine how much time, materials and energy would be saved if man does what Jesus suggested and unite. It is my objective to get all women with children out of the work force and that is for 2 reasons at least. 2) their are not enough jobs for the working age men and women if the mothers are working as well. 2) Every child deserves and needs a parent nearby as much as possible and I don't need the trouble of mothers who are committed to children and a husband being tempted by other men.

Many tried to destroy me in court and could not even though a jury found me guilty of actions that were determined immediately after the verdict not to be crimes. I believe I am the first to have jury convictions overruled immediately which further demonstrated my diss-approval with the judicial system. All of my actions were legal and all of the judicial systems actions were illegal, it was quite a war.

I don't claim to be God but I am the man who will save this planet and manage it into everlasting peace and prosperity.

UVsaturated

Aug 6th, 2006, 12:42 AM

Jake, if you are saying you are one of the 144,000 sons of God, then I can only say that Blessed be he that come in the name of the Lord. I cannot judge your faith, but I will be watching your posts to see if your faith in what is unseen is true or not and maybe I will quibble with you if I don't understand what you are saying.

Either way, I have noticed quite a few people that are coming forward with the truth. I don't condemn your fiasco with the courts, because frankly I did not read the whole texts of those documents but I did see the headlines you presented. I would rather you send me private messages or emails to discuss that, because I think it would be enlightening.

Anyway, we will both see won't we?

Jake99

Aug 7th, 2006, 8:38 PM

Doogle,

I wish I could verify the accuracy of the religious books but I cannot and if you were raised in a different religion you would have different beliefs. I focus on the comon sense aspect of what Jesus was said to have recommended and I agree with that philosophy. Unfortunatly no one else reads the words of Jesus the way I understand them.

He had a serious issue with money changers, lines on the map and wanted all people to be treated the same way and thus under a united and fair competitive operating system. The problem he had was that he did not have the technology to make his ideas work. But today his ideas are easy to put in place if the world is acceptable to that system change.

You dont have to be God to fix this planet you just have to be a smart manager that believes in what Jesus recommended.

So many people are waiting for a god man to fly down from the clouds to save them that they cannot even consider how easy it would be to just follow directions from the man named Jesus.

I do find it amazing that the world has progressed into chaos just as predicted but that was inevitable as soon as man decided not to do as Jesus recommended.

Jake99

Aug 21st, 2006, 9:58 AM

UVsaturated

Aug 24th, 2006, 4:26 AM

Jake, I have done some soul searching lately, and I have come to a conclusion about you. I think something has been given to you, but like all that are called each part has a specific purpose, and yours is different from mine. Either way, we are both called. It makes no difference to me the things you lack, because what you have - I lack. I am beginning to see the purpose behind this, and not just with you but with others who have the same message.

Keep going, this is getting interesting.

PS - my apologies for what I said

uki

Aug 24th, 2006, 6:22 AM

The proof of God comes out of the mouth of a man that knows the Way. And the Way is still the same as it was described by Jesus. Put that philosophy in place and you will get the aNew World the religious books describe.

I do not know what the 144,000 is meant to be for all who submit to the Way will be welcome in the New World here on earth. Its a systematic change nothing more that resolves the issues that create chaos and unrest on the planet and then you can toss the bibles into the fireplace.you are very wise indeed. as for the 144,000, we are the literal arm and sword of the Lord... we are the protectors of the men, women, and children during the tribulation(times of troubles) period when the beast agenda engulfs the world into total war and darkness; we have no fear of the darkness, we are the light of the world... we will make war with the beast and enjoy every minute of it, we have volunteered for this mission at the beginning and have been training and preparing lifetime after lifetime and now we stand ready and are merely waiting for the call... you will know us by name and deed. we are sealed and cannot be harmed by the forces of darkness. we are the great warriors of old, disguised and scattered amongst humanity around the world, we are anchors of truth, light, and understanding. we are of a royal lineage.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Aug 24th, 2006, 7:28 PM

you are very wise indeed. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! NOBODY will take you seriously from this point on after having called Jake "wise". Thanks for playing. Here's your parting gift... << gives uki a lifetime supply of Twinkies >>

uki

Aug 25th, 2006, 6:46 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! NOBODY will take you seriously from this point on after having called Jake "wise". Thanks for playing. Here's your parting gift... << gives uki a lifetime supply of Twinkies >>if i were to call you wise i'd be a liar. you know there b'nye, sometimes the king dresses the fool and walks the land in order to understand his kingdom from the bottom up, yet something tells me that you have no fucking clue as to what i am talking about... and by the way i do not eat twinkies... they're for making fat people, so you can keep your twinkies... i haven't even begun to play yet, it's kinda like a big tiger toying with it's prey before the kill.

Smoke

Aug 25th, 2006, 3:53 PM

you are very wise indeed. as for the 144,000, we are the literal arm and sword of the Lord... we are the protectors of the men, women, and children during the tribulation(times of troubles) period when the beast agenda engulfs the world into total war and darkness; we have no fear of the darkness, we are the light of the world... we will make war with the beast and enjoy every minute of it, we have volunteered for this mission at the beginning and have been training and preparing lifetime after lifetime and now we stand ready and are merely waiting for the call... you will know us by name and deed. we are sealed and cannot be harmed by the forces of darkness. we are the great warriors of old, disguised and scattered amongst humanity around the world, we are anchors of truth, light, and understanding. we are of a royal lineage.

I strongly agree with you on that uki about the warriors thing any ways. except in a more literal way

uki

Aug 25th, 2006, 4:02 PM

I strongly agree with you on that uki about the warriors thing any ways. except in a more literal wayhow much more literally can it be taken?

Jake99

Aug 25th, 2006, 9:03 PM

uki,

Thank you for understanding my quest to disarm the evil doers that are in control of this planet. The bible people and followers in this forum do not understand how seriously we need to change our ways. I have always been a common sense leader and the ways of this world need to be defeated ASAP.

I have been making war with the beast for 51 years and he will fall just as I told him he would in court twenty times. No one in all of time has angered the beast as I did at Y2K in court while being tried as the Messiah. I am the call you should stand behind if you want true change to a fair and friendly world. Sorry I cannot fly down from the clouds but I have done many things others cannot do including transforming chaos into peace and prosperity.

Smoke

Aug 25th, 2006, 9:57 PM

how much more literally can it be taken?
id try to expain it but id only confuse my self lol,

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Aug 29th, 2006, 2:39 PM

if i were to call you wise i'd be a liar. << looks around >> You must be mistaking me for someone who gives a shit...

yet something tells me that you have no fucking clue as to what i am talking about Yeah, you ARE mistaking me for someone who gives a shit...

and by the way i do not eat twinkies... they're for making fat people, so you can keep your twinkies The twinkies are a Jake99 joke. He used to make Twinkies. And seeing as how you clearly want to stick your Twinkie in Jake's oven, I thought that it was an appropriate reference...

i haven't even begun to play yet, it's kinda like a big tiger toying with it's prey before the kill. I'm not sure, so can somebody confirm this for me... but is this the part where I'm supposed to start shaking in my boots?

uki

Aug 31st, 2006, 1:49 PM

Yeah, you ARE mistaking me for someone who gives a shit...not really...

I'm not sure, so can somebody confirm this for me... but is this the part where I'm supposed to start shaking in my boots?you are already scared, living behind locked doors... sheesh... what a puss... i didn't know orks needed to lock their doors.

grendel 13

Aug 31st, 2006, 2:17 PM

you are already scared, living behind locked doors... sheesh... what a puss... i didn't know orks needed to lock their doors.

so your the one that doesn't lock his doors, cause your some sort of a badass with swords, right? so i'm assuming that you also don't sleep, cause no matter how bad you are when you're dreaming away someone can easily enter your house and take care of you or your family. yeah you might get woken up by the first screams, but by that time it's too late. not locking your doors is just idiotic, especially if you have a family with you.

uki

Aug 31st, 2006, 2:24 PM

so your the one that doesn't lock his doors, cause your some sort of a badass with swords, right? so i'm assuming that you also don't sleep, cause no matter how bad you are when you're dreaming away someone can easily enter your house and take care of you or your family. yeah you might get woken up by the first screams, but by that time it's too late. not locking your doors is just idiotic, especially if you have a family with you.and just where does your vast array of wisdom and understanding stem from? do you have a family of your own? do you play with swords? who say's i am a bad-ass? i just tell the truth, nothing more. and yes i do sleep; i even take my hearing aid out sometimes... i am not worried about anyone walking thru my door to kill me... i am simply not afraid, nor is my girlfriend... of what use is it to be afraid? none... worrying accomplishes nothing. being afraid accomplishes nothing... so why the hell would anyone partake in an activity or mindset that accomplishes nothing? if this mentality is grounds to label me some kind of bad-ass, then locking the doors is grounds to call someone a pussy.

grendel 13

Aug 31st, 2006, 2:34 PM

and just where does your vast array of wisdom and understanding stem from? do you have a family of your own? do you play with swords? who say's i am a bad-ass? i just tell the truth, nothing more. and yes i do sleep; i even take my hearing aid out sometimes... i am not worried about anyone walking thru my door to kill me... i am simply not afraid, nor is my girlfriend... of what use is it to be afraid? none... worrying accomplishes nothing. being afraid accomplishes nothing... so why the hell would anyone partake in an activity or mindset that accomplishes nothing? if this mentality is grounds to label me some kind of bad-ass, then locking the doors is grounds to call someone a pussy.

ok i was out of line with the whole badass with a sword thing, i just assumed that because you let you daughters train with them that you too had extensive training and used it to justify not locking the doors. but aside from that, honestly, it has nothing to do with being afraid, it's just common sense, but maybe you live in an isolated area, but if you live in the city it's common sense. i drive a motorcycle and i don't ever take it out without my helmet, why? cause i'm afraid of dying of course, no, if i die cause some ass decides to pull out in front of me and i wasn't wearing my helmet, it's not gonna matter to me, i'll be dead, but why take the risk, why leave myself vulnerable to some other idiots actions?

uki

Aug 31st, 2006, 2:43 PM

ok i was out of line with the whole badass with a sword thing, i just assumed that because you let you daughters train with them that you too had extensive training and used it to justify not locking the doors. but aside from that, honestly, it has nothing to do with being afraid, it's just common sense, but maybe you live in an isolated area, but if you live in the city it's common sense. i drive a motorcycle and i don't ever take it out without my helmet, why? cause i'm afraid of dying of course, no, if i die cause some ass decides to pull out in front of me and i wasn't wearing my helmet, it's not gonna matter to me, i'll be dead, but why take the risk, why leave myself vulnerable to some other idiots actions?you shouldn't be afraid of dying... yes it will happen, but not until you fulfill your life's purpose. ultimately though, it is up to you to be self-aware of your surroundings, for me it is part of a constant training in awareness. yes some idiot might pull out in front of you, but you have to learn to be aware(turned on) at all times, so as to not be taken by suprise... as for justifying not locking my doors, it goes with the old taoist saying... "those who do not trust, will not be trusted."

grendel 13

Aug 31st, 2006, 2:55 PM

you shouldn't be afraid of dying... yes it will happen, but not until you fulfill your life's purpose. ultimately though, it is up to you to be self-aware of your surroundings, for me it is part of a constant training in awareness. yes some idiot might pull out in front of you, but you have to learn to be aware(turned on) at all times, so as to not be taken by suprise... as for justifying not locking my doors, it goes with the old taoist saying... "those who do not trust, will not be trusted."
ahh i can see there is no reaching you, i aint afraid of dying, i just don't want to die because of someone elses decisions, trust me i am constantly aware of my surroundings, my father and the army beat that sh*t into me, but when your hualing ass on a bike and some fool doesn't see you there is only som much you can do, especially if you have no room to manuever, in the last two weeks three people i know have been in serious bike accidents, two died, they were all highly experienced riders, but they arn't here anymore because of someone elses decisions. as far as trust, i don't trust anyone, and i don't expect anyone to trust me.

uki

Aug 31st, 2006, 4:50 PM

as far as trust, i don't trust anyone, and i don't expect anyone to trust me.you have revealed much about yourself...

grendel 13

Aug 31st, 2006, 5:00 PM

you have revealed much about yourself...

and?

i think you give the human race too much credit. if there is nothing to worry about or be afraid of than why bother training yourself to be aware. what's there to be aware of?

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Aug 31st, 2006, 6:16 PM

you are already scared, living behind locked doors... sheesh... what a puss... i didn't know orks needed to lock their doors.
Sigh... I wish I was macho like uki. I'm scared living behind locked doors all of the time...

not locking your doors is just idiotic, especially if you have a family with you.
Uki doesn't think things through. Besides, it's macho... MAcho macho maaaaaaaaaaaaaan... I want to be... a Macho maaaaaaaaaaaaaan...

i am not worried about anyone walking thru my door to kill me...
Then you're an idiot. Plain and simple...

i am simply not afraid, nor is my girlfriend... of what use is it to be afraid? none... worrying accomplishes nothing. being afraid accomplishes nothing...
I'm not afraid, nor am I worried. Assuming that someone IS simply because they lock their door is simply childish. Locking the door is something that is incredibly simple, albeit less macho, to do in order to stay safe. Not being afraid or not worrying will do you NO good when some psychotic killer easily enters your home while you are asleep and rapes and kills you, your girlfriend and your daughters. Can you HONESTLY tell me that this potential end justifies your negligent means? Why would you risk your daughters' safety like that? Being macho accomplishes nothing...

i drive a motorcycle and i don't ever take it out without my helmet, why? cause i'm afraid of dying of course, no, if i die cause some ass decides to pull out in front of me and i wasn't wearing my helmet, it's not gonna matter to me, i'll be dead, but why take the risk, why leave myself vulnerable to some other idiots actions?
Good analogy, grendel!

you have revealed much about yourself...
So have you. You've reavealed that you are possibly the most naive person in the world...

uki

Aug 31st, 2006, 7:52 PM

Sigh... I wish I was macho like uki. I'm scared living behind locked doors all of the time...then, just unlock them.

Uki doesn't think things through. Besides, it's macho... MAcho macho maaaaaaaaaaaaaan... I want to be... a Macho maaaaaaaaaaaaaan...so then why aren't you macho... man??

Then you're an idiot. Plain and simple...coming from you, i feel utterly relieved.

I'm not afraid, nor am I worried. Assuming that someone IS simply because they lock their door is simply childish. Locking the door is something that is incredibly simple, albeit less macho, to do in order to stay safe. Not being afraid or not worrying will do you NO good when some psychotic killer easily enters your home while you are asleep and rapes and kills you, your girlfriend and your daughters. Can you HONESTLY tell me that this potential end justifies your negligent means? Why would you risk your daughters' safety like that? Being macho accomplishes nothing...like i said before... if you do not trust, you will not be trusted.

Good analogy, grendel!!seems you'll do anything for a sideliner...

So have you. You've reavealed that you are possibly the most naive person in the world...just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's the truth.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 1st, 2006, 11:01 AM

then, just unlock them.
Unlocking your doors does not make you macho. It makes you STUPID...

like i said before... if you do not trust, you will not be trusted.
Let me get this straight... I don't trust mentally disturbed people, therefore I will not be trusted? Could you BE any more black and white?

seems you'll do anything for a sideliner...
Interesting how you ignored grendel's valid and insightful motorcycle analogy. You have revealed much about yourself...

P.S. - Uki, do you wear your seatbelt when you drive a car? Do you make your daughters wear a seatbelt?

uki

Sep 1st, 2006, 2:21 PM

[INDENT]Unlocking your doors does not make you macho. It makes you STUPID...atleast to some people...

Let me get this straight... I don't trust mentally disturbed people, therefore I will not be trusted? Could you BE any more black and white?it is quite obvious you are below my level of understanding.

Interesting how you ignored grendel's valid and insightful motorcycle analogy. You have revealed much about yourself...locking your doors and riding a motorcycle are two entirely different things numb-nut.

P.S. - Uki, do you wear your seatbelt when you drive a car? Do you make your daughters wear a seatbelt?yes i wear a seatbelt. as for my daughters, until they are old enough to make their own choices, much like myself, they will wear their seatbelts and use carseats, yet again wearing seatbelts has nothing to do with locking your doors... yet something tells me you will find a relationship based on being afraid to die or something of that sort.

driving on the highway is different than being stationary and at home... while driving there are many variable factors to take into account, while leaving ones door unlocked has but one, someone else entering your home...

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 1st, 2006, 8:26 PM

like i said before... if you do not trust, you will not be trusted.

Earlier, didn't you say...

we are the protectors of the men, women, and children during the tribulation

If there's a danger out there that people need protection from, wouldn't it follow that it would be unwise to trust someone who represents that danger? And if you're a "protector", why do you frown on the protection of a lock?

it is quite obvious you are below my level of understanding

Yeah, clearly. Which is why you can't actually defend your opinion, so you have to hit us with a sweeping general dismissal like this.

Sammy56

Sep 1st, 2006, 11:09 PM

uki

Sep 2nd, 2006, 7:02 AM

uki, you claim Bill is afraid of death because he locks his doors, but personally I think you are confusing "not actively seeking death by doing something stupid" and "being afraid of death. They are very different. There is tons of situations I'm not afraid of, but I'm sure the hell not going to make it any easier for that situation to arise.we all have an appointed time to die, nothing you can do will alter or change this date... it is by accepting and believing that you attain faith in life. either you will for honor or dishonor, yet all will fulfill their purpose in life... even if that purpose is to die as you believe, a stupid death.

How? In both cases, you are using a preventive measure. It lowers the chance of something bad happening to you or your daughters. It's the same principle.like i said before, nothing will happen to you that has not already been appointed, so in essence there is truly no preventive measures. has it not been said, which of you by worrying can add one cubit to your stature?" this parable is the general concept of true faith. yes we live in this world, yet we are not of it, nor a part of it... so if the world is fearful and afraid of things that may or may not happen, why would you align yourself with the teachings and ways of the world? those whom have been sealed with the spirit, will live by the spirit, and the spirit has no fear of the worldly ways of men... yet at some times and events it is better to ride the wave than to attempt to stop it. kinda like the old saying, "when in rome, do what the romans do."

If there's a danger out there that people need protection from, wouldn't it follow that it would be unwise to trust someone who represents that danger? And if you're a "protector", why do you frown on the protection of a lock?you should be able to discern whom to trust and whom not to trust. once you have found your center you develop the abilities of foresight and discernment... the saying, "if you do not trust, you will not be trusted" does not imply that you must trust everyone, it means that you should have trust in ones faith of being taken care of... people whom are ignorant of the principles and laws of nature will in turn be gullible to all sorts of evil that will prey on their lack of understanding. people whom are in harmony with the pulse of life will be able to see thru lies and illusions, for they will only see the truth in all things; having no spot or blemish in their understanding of the way. no harm shall befall those who walk in the way of truth and light... and by saying this i do not mean physical harm, but spiritual harm... once you have regained understanding of your purpose in life, you will not lose it... this has been coined being saved, being born again, being enlightened, finding your center, and such... yet if you have no measure of faith, you will have no measure of true understanding.

Yeah, clearly. Which is why you can't actually defend your opinion, so you have to hit us with a sweeping general dismissal like this.there is no need to defend the truth, because there is no attack that can alter it.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 2nd, 2006, 9:52 AM

we all have an appointed time to die, nothing you can do will alter or change this date... Then why do you bother wearing a seatbelt?

like i said before, nothing will happen to you that has not already been appointed, so in essence there is truly no preventive measures. Like I said before, WHY bother wearing a seatbelt then?

you should be able to discern whom to trust and whom not to trust. And how exactly can you determine this WHILE YOU ARE ASLEEP? I may not be macho like you, uki, but I'm smart enough to realize that I CANNOT discern whom to trust and whom not to trust WHILE I AM ASLEEP. Jon Benet Ramsey anyone?

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 2nd, 2006, 10:57 AM

like i said before, nothing will happen to you that has not already been appointed, so in essence there is truly no preventive measures

Pfft. That's a poor excuse. If the only thing we have is destiny, why bother working toward at all? After all, if you were destined to have it, it'll drop into your lap whether you make any effort for it. And if you do something wrong, it's not your fault. Sure, maybe someone was driving drunk, but they were destined to nail that kid off his trike at 80 MPH.

you should be able to discern whom to trust and whom not to trust.

That's overly simplistic, and it limits mercy if you divide people into, "those you can trust," and "those you should avoid". People are flawed, meaning they can at times be dangerous, but shouldn't we help people work through those flaws?

there is no need to defend the truth, because there is no attack that can alter it.

Look, if you've got no interest in discussing something, don't discuss it. This is a debate site, and we use questions to sharpen our view of the world.

Besides, if you won't explain things, how can we ever understand the "truth"?

uki

Sep 2nd, 2006, 11:06 AM

Then why do you bother wearing a seatbelt?why not, it is there to use. sometimes i wear it and sometimes i don't... kinda like changing your clothes, sometimes you wear the same outfit for days and at other times you change everyday(atleast for me anyhows)... besides if you get pulled over for something, the fine is automatically racked up for not wearing a seatbelt...

And how exactly can you determine this WHILE YOU ARE ASLEEP? I may not be macho like you, uki, but I'm smart enough to realize that I CANNOT discern whom to trust and whom not to trust WHILE I AM ASLEEP. Jon Benet Ramsey anyone?well for starters you need to get a guardian or temple dog for your home of residence... as for not being able to know whom to trust, you need to find your center and re-awaken your slumbering soul; and for jon benet ramsey, her parents are more at fault than her killer, it is sad that you need to keep something that is past, alive. you can rest assured that her killer will get what is coming to him/her... it's all part of the fear propaganda machine... keep the people afraid... they seem to be doing a good job, eh bill? you obviously have taken the bait.

Sammy56

Sep 2nd, 2006, 11:34 AM

why not, it is there to use. So are locks on doors. You still haven't adequately explained the difference between the two.

uki

Sep 2nd, 2006, 11:44 AM

So are locks on doors. You still haven't adequately explained the difference between the two.in my case locking the front door will do nothing since all our windows, sliding glass doors, and cellar doors fail to lock even if we wanted to lock them... it's too much un-neccessary work to fix them all... besides we have three guardian dogs, a two-hundred yard driveway that looks like it was blasted in a meteor shower... a house full of swords, knives, and a reputation that atleast locally will deter anyone from even attempting... not to mention a steep narrow stairway is the only way up to our front porch... unless it is a S.W.A.T. drop, there is really no way of anyone getting in that will not be noticed. besides our mail box is on the main road and our house in a jumble of other non-marked residences and driveway's... someone would have to have a bit more dumb-luck than we do. :2fu:

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 2nd, 2006, 12:56 PM

why not, it is there to use.
Like Sammy said, so are locks on doors. Why not use them?

sometimes i wear it and sometimes i don't... kinda like changing your clothes, sometimes you wear the same outfit for days and at other times you change everyday(atleast for me anyhows)...
Is it possible for you to lay it on any thicker than this? Seatbelts are a fashion statement for you now?

besides if you get pulled over for something, the fine is automatically racked up for not wearing a seatbelt...
Wow. Congratulations on actually using a legitimate excuse for a change...

well for starters you need to get a guardian or temple dog for your home of residence...
Why would you need a dog? Are you scared or something? What's the matter? Don't you trust people? Why would you need a dog if you trust people? According to your black and white saying, does this now mean that YOU can't be trusted, uki? How is a dog different than an alarm system or a lock anyway? You're really coming off looking like an idiot here, uki. Just admit that you were wrong before you dig yourself any deeper into your hole...

her parents are more at fault than her killer, it is sad that you need to keep something that is past, alive.
But they TRUSTED the killer. Besides, according to YOU, there would have been NO POINT in trying to prevent their daughter's death because it was DESTINED to happen anyway. So there was NOTHING that the parents could've done to prevent her death. So why bother? And keeping the past alive? Wasn't me, dude. 'Twas the media...

you can rest assured that her killer will get what is coming to him/her...
But you JUST said that it is sad to keep something alive that is already in the past. Plus, the killer was obviously DESTINED to kill Jon Benet and fulfill God's perverted wishes. So if God WANTED the killer to kill this little innocent girl - which He obviously DID because, you know, it HAPPENED - then WHY would he punish the killer for fulfilling His wishes? Got contradiction?

they seem to be doing a good job, eh bill? you obviously have taken the bait.
Who are these mysterious "they" people that you refer to, uki? And you think that I'VE taken the bait. Ha ha...

besides we have three guardian dogs
Why do you need to have guardian dogs, uki? Are you scared or something? What's the matter? Don't you trust people? Don't you trust in God to protect you? Got hypocrisy?

a house full of swords, knives, and a reputation that atleast locally will deter anyone from even attempting... not to mention a steep narrow stairway is the only way up to our front porch
Unfortunately, swords, knives, a reputation and a stairway won't stop a bullet. Damn, you're fucked up, uki...

uki

Sep 2nd, 2006, 1:54 PM

Damn, you're fucked up, uki...perhaps, but that is my burden now isn't. as far as i am concerned you have nothing, absolutely nothing to say that is worth reading... you are about as ignorant and faithless as they come... i hope you and your wife never concieve a child to save it the pain of growing up under your outright blantant stupidity and ignorance to a higher cause in this life. may you perhaps come around, but i doubt it... because like you once stated... you don't give a shit... and honestly, that is your own demise... ork. i could hand you the truth on a silver platter and blinking with neon lights and you would find some way to muck it real good like the swine in the mud of lies you are... B.NyeTheUruk-Hai... what an original name, aligning yourself with the pig-face of evil and ignorance... an honest glutton feeding off the illusions of your own life. have an nice day and don't forget to lock your doors, because every time you do i hope you'll think of me. damn you are a moron...:2fu:

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 2nd, 2006, 3:07 PM

as far as i am concerned you have nothing, absolutely nothing to say that is worth reading...

Oh, look, another general dismissal. Maybe some day you'll actually be able to answer a direct question.

uki

Sep 2nd, 2006, 4:29 PM

Oh, look, another general dismissal. Maybe some day you'll actually be able to answer a direct question.i have given my answers... apparently some people are still too fucking blind to have understood them. the ork wallows in the mud of his own ignorance and attempts to muddle up anyone else's belief's, regardless if it is the truth or not... he likes to beat the war drums just for the sake of arguing... he has no belief, no faith, and no moral conscience... he is a dead man walking in his own ignorance. his spark has long been snuffed out... perhaps he should meditate and seek into himself for some insight and understanding instead of boasting in his lack of... orks are the filth of life.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 3rd, 2006, 10:59 AM

Why do you need to have guardian dogs, uki? Are you scared or something? What's the matter? Don't you trust people? Don't you trust in God to protect you? Got hypocrisy?

as far as i am concerned you have nothing, absolutely nothing to say that is worth reading...
Then WHY do you read it? Got contradiction?

you are about as ignorant and faithless as they come...
What am I ignorant about? And WHY do I need to have faith?

i hope you and your wife never concieve a child to save it the pain of growing up under your outright blantant stupidity and ignorance to a higher cause in this life.
Thank goodness the world is not subjected to your screwed up hopes, uki. We'd be in BIG trouble if it was. Thanks for your well-wishes though, they're very touching. We've recently completed the application process and have been approved for adoption. We're just waiting for a baby to become available. If we require any further references, can I count on you?

like the swine in the mud of lies you are
What mud of lies? What are you talking about?

have an nice day and don't forget to lock your doors, because every time you do i hope you'll think of me.
Again, your hopes are dashed. You have absolutely NO effect on my life, so WHY would I think of you at ALL? Got narcissism?

damn you are a moron...
Coming from YOU, that's a compliment! Thanks!

Sammy56

Sep 3rd, 2006, 12:12 PM

And WHY do I need to have faith? Shouldn't that be obvious? You need faith to have morality, since we know that everyone who isn't Christian is evil and does nothing to better this world! People like Benjamin Franklin and Albert Einstein were still godless Christians who are now, thankfully, burning in hell where they can no longer pollute humanity with their warped ideas! Or, at least, according to people like uki...

uki

Sep 4th, 2006, 7:37 AM

Why do you need to have guardian dogs, uki? Are you scared or something? What's the matter? Don't you trust people? Don't you trust in God to protect you? Got hypocrisy?for the sake of the debate here and having it been an honest question concerning my faith... the guardian dogs are a term coined from ancient china, they are the foo dogs, the temple dogs... they ward off evil spirits simply by their presence. see i didn't go and get the dogs because i was afraid, they were a gift due to my faith(see i believe that life takes care of you when you are in harmony). the first dog was a gift from my mother when my first daughter was born, the second was bought by my girlfriend for the second child, now since one is male and the other female, i got a pup outta the deal. these dogs are the pekingese, so you can clearly see that they are an insignificant physical threat to intruders... not to mention the fact that i am hearing impaired, so it is not like i will hear them barking or something(well usually anyhows). so clearly you can see here that it is due to my faith in life to preserve itself that i have wound up having three guardian dogs; i believe(have faith) that they ward off evil spirits and intentions to my household... and they were provided to me, i did not seek them out. this is where the measure of ones faith comes into play... sure it's easier to say that it is all bullshit and whatever, but like i said before... you have no [i]true beliefs and no true faith. i am and will be taken care of by the divine laws and principles of life... this is true understanding and it gives me true peace... i belong to no religion, nor attend any church save for the one of life and experience with and thru people... such as yourself.

Then WHY do you read it? Got contradiction?i read it because you are amusing i suppose and no i have no contradictions, by saying you have nothing worth reading simply implies that your words are for the most part, meaningless to me.

What am I ignorant about? And WHY do I need to have faith?you are ignorant of the truth. you don't need to have anything... faith comes naturally from a change of heart, mind, and spirit... it is the fruit of understanding. it will naturally be a part of you when you are changed, until then you will not understand faith.

Thank goodness the world is not subjected to your screwed up hopes, uki. We'd be in BIG trouble if it was. Thanks for your well-wishes though, they're very touching. We've recently completed the application process and have been approved for adoption. We're just waiting for a baby to become available. If we require any further references, can I count on you?infortunately my hope is the hope of the planet... this world will be destroyed, all it's evil, degradation, immorality, all of it will come crumbling down. where is your child coming from... uzbekistan or something... as you can clearly see my well-wishes are heard, you and your wife cannot naturally concieve a child... so when it grows up, you can be sure none of your genetic quirks will be blemishing it. as for counting on me, i would tell them you are one of the most irresponsible would-be parents out there.

What mud of lies? What are you talking about?everything about you is a lie.

Again, your hopes are dashed. You have absolutely NO effect on my life, so WHY would I think of you at ALL? Got narcissism?well i suppose only time will tell now won't it...

Coming from YOU, that's a compliment! Thanks!well then i suppose i should tell you that you are the most enlightened soul on the face of the planet... your welcome. :dork:

Shouldn't that be obvious? You need faith to have morality, since we know that everyone who isn't Christian is evil and does nothing to better this world! People like Benjamin Franklin and Albert Einstein were still godless Christians who are now, thankfully, burning in hell where they can no longer pollute humanity with their warped ideas! Or, at least, according to people like uki...three cheers to the atom bomb asshole!! the world would've been better off if those two were never born...

Sammy56

Sep 4th, 2006, 1:03 PM

you are ignorant of the truth. Who are you to judge that? Just because he doesn't have your truth doesn't mean he doesn't have any truth. Truth is often subjective, but many Christians seem to forget that.

everything about you is a lie. More judging. I thought Christians didn't judge others? You don't know Bill well enough to make that judgement anyway.

three cheers to the atom bomb asshole!! the world would've been better off if those two were never born... God, you sound just like my father. Again with the judging too. You know, you never really explained the reason why seatbelts and guardian dogs are ok, but locks on doors are a sign of cowardice. I hope for your daughters sake you don't live to regret that.

We've recently completed the application process and have been approved for adoption. We're just waiting for a baby to become available. If we require any further references, can I count on you? Congratulations!

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 4th, 2006, 1:47 PM

you are ignorant of the truth. What truth? What are you talking about? Please tell me about this truth. I'm legitimately interested. Please be specific and refrain from the general sweeping statements that you're fond of. SERIOUSLY, uki, I'm interested in what you believe in and why you believe in it...

where is your child coming from... uzbekistan or something... Racist comments now, uki? Aren't there 144,000 members of the Ku Klux Klan? By the way, our baby is coming from Canada...

i would tell them you are one of the most irresponsible would-be parents out there. I'm irresponsible now? How do you know that? In what way am I irresponsible? Because I protect my family by locking my doors at night? You're not making ANY sense, uki... AGAIN...

everything about you is a lie. It is? Like what? Please provide a specific example instead of your typical general sweeping statements, mmkay?

three cheers to the atom bomb asshole!! the world would've been better off if those two were never born... So did this all happen AGAINST the wishes of God? Since the atom bomb WAS created, doesn't this mean that God wished it and allowed it to happen as a part of His "grand plan"? Are you, uki, saying that you know what's better for the world than GOD does? Got arrogance?

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 4th, 2006, 2:01 PM

Congratulations! Thanks, Sammy! We had to go through alot of hoops in order to get to this point. The initial application process involved writing some essays and getting friends and family to write essays about my wife and I. Then we had to attend adoption/fostering classes which were a total of 27 hours. THEN we had to have a home study done which involved our adoption worker interviewing us in our home regarding our personal lives which totalled another 12 hours! Phew! Now we are all done with the approval process and we're simply waiting for a baby to become available. As of about 2 months ago, there were 4 couples ahead of us on the waiting list. We don't know exactly how much waiting time this typically translates into, but we expect that it could take up to a year or possibly 2 years until we have a baby in our home. So the hard part is over with but we still have to wait a little bit longer...

loganosborne

Sep 4th, 2006, 2:07 PM

We've recently completed the application process and have been approved for adoption. We're just waiting for a baby to become available. If we require any further references, can I count on you?
Congratulations. :2thumbs:

where is your child coming from... uzbekistan or something...
So what if the child was from Uzbekistan is there anything wrong with that.

Stabby Joe

Sep 4th, 2006, 2:35 PM

So what if the child was from Uzbekistan is there anything wrong with that.

*Drum rolls for some more judging*

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 4th, 2006, 2:48 PM

Congratulations. Thanks, logan! My wife and I are very excited, but we still have to wait a little while longer. I think that uki's recommendation reference letter may be holding things up!

So what if the child was from Uzbekistan is there anything wrong with that. Yeah, I don't understand why uki would say this. It's borderline racist. I'm reminded of a song that I learned in Sunday school when I was a kid that goes "Jesus loves the little children. All the children of the world. Red and yellow, black or white, they are precious in His sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world." From what I gather from his posts so far, uki doesn't seem to like ANYBODY...

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 4th, 2006, 5:13 PM

From what I gather from his posts so far, uki doesn't seem to like ANYBODY...

I have to admit, I find uki amusing and intriguing. He spurns religion, pursuing spirituality instead. Which is something I and many of my friends do... but we generally go the "spiritual" route to avoid the dogma and arrogance that religion sometimes encourages. Whereas uki apparently wants to avoid everything else.

uki

Sep 5th, 2006, 9:05 PM

What truth? What are you talking about? Please tell me about this truth. I'm legitimately interested. Please be specific and refrain from the general sweeping statements that you're fond of. SERIOUSLY, uki, I'm interested in what you believe in and why you believe in it...the simple truth is that there is nothing to fear. when you have even the slightest measure of faith in this statement, your life will manifest in such a way that you will be... how do you say... macho... no pun intended.

Racist comments now, uki? Aren't there 144,000 members of the Ku Klux Klan? By the way, our baby is coming from Canada...the uzbekistan comment was at best, my attempt to be sarcastic. the 144,000 are the ones whom will make war with the beast agenda... we are not racist. we just abhor lies and deciet, which is exactly what the beast agenda represents.

I'm irresponsible now? How do you know that? In what way am I irresponsible? Because I protect my family by locking my doors at night? You're not making ANY sense, uki... AGAIN...irresponsible because you lack the basic faith of life taking care of it's own. so in having lack of this faith how can you responsibly pass it along to your children?

It is? Like what? Please provide a specific example instead of your typical general sweeping statements, mmkay?your lack of faith(belief) in the perfectness of life.

So did this all happen AGAINST the wishes of God? Since the atom bomb WAS created, doesn't this mean that God wished it and allowed it to happen as a part of His "grand plan"? Are you, uki, saying that you know what's better for the world than GOD does? Got arrogance?the atom bomb was the work of man... man is imperfect because mankind is afraid of life; this is why mankind seeks to manipulate it... he fails to have faith in it's perfectness.

Who are you to judge that? Just because he doesn't have your truth doesn't mean he doesn't have any truth. Truth is often subjective, but many Christians seem to forget that.truth is truth... it takes no sides nor belongs to any set agenda. truth cannot be divided(otherwise it loses it's truthfulness). perhaps you are not reading my other posts... i am not a christian.

More judging. I thought Christians didn't judge others? You don't know Bill well enough to make that judgement anyway.again, i am not a christian... so those christian rules do not apply to me; i am outside the boundaries. i know him well enough from the forums; words are a reflection of ones inner beliefs.

God, you sound just like my father. Again with the judging too. You know, you never really explained the reason why seatbelts and guardian dogs are ok, but locks on doors are a sign of cowardice. I hope for your daughters sake you don't live to regret that.locking your doors is a sign of being faithless to the extent that you are the target of harmful intentions. i believe that if someone means to do me harm, that i am protected due to my faith that i am protected, so there is no real reason to lock my doors(amongst other things).

Sammy56

Sep 5th, 2006, 10:32 PM

locking your doors is a sign of being faithless to the extent that you are the target of harmful intentions. i believe that if someone means to do me harm, that i am protected due to my faith that i am protected, so there is no real reason to lock my doors(amongst other things). Well, so is not wearing seat belts. It shows the same kind of "faithlessness".

Christian or not, what gives you the right to judge others, especially when you've never walked in their shoes? What makes you think your truth is the Truth. Reminds me of the quote "Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it".

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 5th, 2006, 11:04 PM

the simple truth is that there is nothing to fear

So... okay, I know this is a sensitive example, but if your daughters were kidnapped, you wouldn't be afraid for them?

irresponsible because you lack the basic faith of life taking care of it's own.

This is meaningless. If you protect your loved ones by putting a wall between them and danger, isn't that life taking care of its own? And if by "life" you mean "God", does God swoop down and save everyone who is assaulted or killed? Doesn't seem like it.

your lack of faith(belief) in the perfectness of life.

Uki, perhaps you should look up the word "lie" before you use it in a conversation.

locking your doors is a sign of being faithless to the extent that you are the target of harmful intentions

... Whereas guard dogs are what, exactly?

i believe that if someone means to do me harm, that i am protected due to my faith that i am protected

So if I believed I was immortal, I could stay twenty-one forever? Cool.

I love the fact that you trust God to protect you from someone willfully focusing on you, but you don't trust God to make sure the guy in the car next to you doesn't carelessly switch lanes without checking to see if it's clear. God can handle maliciousness, but not carelessness?

UVsaturated

Sep 6th, 2006, 2:22 AM

Great! You have all decided to debate about destiny or free-will. Count me in for destiny and let the chips fall where they may. Whether I decide to wear a seat belt or get a guard dog doesn't protect me from anything. Whatever happens will happen. There is no calculated plan that will save you from a negative event.

TheAvatar

Sep 6th, 2006, 4:40 AM

People have been setting a date for the end of time since the beginning of time. No one knows when it will end...until it does.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 6th, 2006, 8:57 AM

the simple truth is that there is nothing to fear. when you have even the slightest measure of faith in this statement, your life will manifest in such a way that you will be... how do you say... macho... no pun intended.
Uki, I SPECIFICALLY asked you NOT to use sweeping generalizations. Is it POSSIBLE for you to explain this "truth" that you mysteriously speak of or do you, like Dr.Dino, JUST SAY STUFF...

the uzbekistan comment was at best, my attempt to be sarcastic. the 144,000 are the ones whom will make war with the beast agenda... we are not racist. we just abhor lies and deciet, which is exactly what the beast agenda represents.
Now this is what I'm really interested in you explaining. Again, I legitimately want to know. How do you know that YOU are one of these 144,000 people? What exactly is your role? How are you going to protect people?

irresponsible because you lack the basic faith of life taking care of it's own.
So you're saying that I shouldn't bother getting my child immunized? I should encourage my child NOT to wear a bicycle helmet? I shouldn't bother using a proper baby car seat? If my child is seriously injured after getting hit by a truck, then I shouldn't bother bringing him/her to the hospital? Wow. There's a saying that I like that goes something like "Expect the best, but prepare for the worst". For you, it seems that the saying would go something like "Expect the best, but don't bother preparing AT ALL". Yes, uki, I'M the irresponsible one...

your lack of faith(belief) in the perfectness of life.
Life is perfect? What about cancer?

truth is truth... it takes no sides nor belongs to any set agenda.
Are you actually going to tell us WHAT the "truth" is, uki? HOW can I possibly agree with you about the truth when you won't even tell us what the truth is? All that we get out of you is vague Jake99-like sweeping generalizations...

again, i am not a christian... so those christian rules do not apply to me; i am outside the boundaries. i know him well enough from the forums; words are a reflection of ones inner beliefs.
Actually, I'm a completely different person in real life. To claim that you know someone solely from an internet forum is naive at best...

Whether I decide to wear a seat belt or get a guard dog doesn't protect me from anything. Whatever happens will happen. There is no calculated plan that will save you from a negative event.
A car crash can be considered a "negative event". If you have a calculated plan, such as wearing a seatbelt, then your chances of actually surviving that car crash are significantly higher than if you didn't wear a seatbelt...

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 6th, 2006, 10:44 AM

Great! You have all decided to debate about destiny or free-will.

Like hell. If I was pressed, I'd probably claim to believe in destiny, myself. (Although I haven't thought of it much and I don't really care one way or the other.) But even if the path is already charted for us, it doesn't mean the journey doesn't matter.

Once you use destiny as an excuse to be careless, you can use it as an excuse for anything else. "Yes, officer, but I was destined to blow up that building." Whether our decisions are mapped out or not, they are still our decisions, and we still have to take responsibility for them.

nrj

Sep 6th, 2006, 11:25 AM

Like hell. If I was pressed, I'd probably claim to believe in destiny, myself. (Although I haven't thought of it much and I don't really care one way or the other.) But even if the path is already charted for us, it doesn't mean the journey doesn't matter.

Once you use destiny as an excuse to be careless, you can use it as an excuse for anything else. "Yes, officer, but I was destined to blow up that building." Whether our decisions are mapped out or not, they are still our decisions, and we still have to take responsibility for them. But, by that logic, god is evil as hell for mapping out that Hitler would kill all the jews, and that the UN then would give them a country that would lead to loads of civilian suffering. Right?

grendel 13

Sep 6th, 2006, 11:51 AM

But, by that logic, god is evil as hell for mapping out that Hitler would kill all the jews, and that the UN then would give them a country that would lead to loads of civilian suffering. Right?

exactly! that's why there is no fate, none of us are destined for sh*t! we all make choices everyday, we all are in control of our own lives, that's the great part about it, we can all choose to f*ck the world or we can choose to do great things.

nrj

Sep 6th, 2006, 12:35 PM

Yep, that's what I believe too. I'm an atheist.

uki

Sep 6th, 2006, 2:06 PM

Yep, that's what I believe too. I'm an atheist.your eyes are still stapled shut my friend.

exactly! that's why there is no fate, none of us are destined for sh*t! we all make choices everyday, we all are in control of our own lives, that's the great part about it, we can all choose to f*ck the world or we can choose to do great things.it is unfortunate that you believe things like this... this is part of the lie. we all have a purpose, nothing you do or say, nor believe will change it.

Now this is what I'm really interested in you explaining. Again, I legitimately want to know. How do you know that YOU are one of these 144,000 people? What exactly is your role? How are you going to protect people?i have answered this question numerous times, perhaps you are not reading my posts in their entirety.

So you're saying that I shouldn't bother getting my child immunized? I should encourage my child NOT to wear a bicycle helmet? I shouldn't bother using a proper baby car seat? If my child is seriously injured after getting hit by a truck, then I shouldn't bother bringing him/her to the hospital? Wow. There's a saying that I like that goes something like "Expect the best, but prepare for the worst". For you, it seems that the saying would go something like "Expect the best, but don't bother preparing AT ALL". Yes, uki, I'M the irresponsible one...you are missing the point entirely... and for the record my second daughter has not been, nor will be immunized...

Life is perfect? What about cancer?it's is not called the wasting disease for nothing.

Are you actually going to tell us WHAT the "truth" is, uki? HOW can I possibly agree with you about the truth when you won't even tell us what the truth is? All that we get out of you is vague Jake99-like sweeping generalizations...if you cannot understand the truth, you will not be able to see the truth.

Actually, I'm a completely different person in real life. To claim that you know someone solely from an internet forum is naive at best...like i said before... everything about you is a lie. i am the same on these forums as i am in real life; i am not afraid to be myself, nor share my beliefs.

A car crash can be considered a "negative event". If you have a calculated plan, such as wearing a seatbelt, then your chances of actually surviving that car crash are significantly higher than if you didn't wear a seatbelt...it all depends on your purpose in life... precautions are in a sense... of no importance in the ultimate scheme of things.

Great! You have all decided to debate about destiny or free-will. Count me in for destiny and let the chips fall where they may. Whether I decide to wear a seat belt or get a guard dog doesn't protect me from anything. Whatever happens will happen. There is no calculated plan that will save you from a negative event.wise words.

So... okay, I know this is a sensitive example, but if your daughters were kidnapped, you wouldn't be afraid for them?what happens is what happens. i am sure that on a human level i would be utterly devastated, yet it would be my faith that would give me hope... when things happen you obviously cannot change the fact that they happened, so it is better to learn all the lessons from the situation.

Christian or not, what gives you the right to judge others, especially when you've never walked in their shoes?i was asleep before i was awake.

What makes you think your truth is the Truth. Reminds me of the quote "Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it".truth is truth.

grendel 13

Sep 6th, 2006, 2:35 PM

it is unfortunate that you believe things like this... this is part of the lie. we all have a purpose, nothing you do or say, nor believe will change it..

so i guess you believe that all those children killed in lebanon didn't have any other purpose than to die horribly at a young age. see people who think that everything is already laid out according to god's plan are what's wrong with the world. these are the people who try to fulfill prophesy because they think it will bring jesus back or start the new paradise or some other sh*t like that. it's these people who sit around and don't take responsibility for the world they are a part of because it's all god's plan and he'll make it all better. look i take responsibility for my life, my actions and when i reach my goals i know i did so on my own not because god destined it for me. see i believe in a higher power, and to think that he's just some puppet master pulling our strings does not give him the credit he is due. it's called free will, without it there is no point, to anything, and with it I become the maker of my destiny.

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 6th, 2006, 4:39 PM

But, by that logic, god is evil as hell for mapping out that Hitler would kill all the jews

No, because human suffering isn't always an evil thing. It depends on what the purpose of that suffering is. Now, Hitler caused suffering because of his own biases and political maneuvers - that was wrong, and could be described as evil. To judge God, on the other hand, we have to understand his motives.

It's always been my theory that our purpose on Earth is to grow wise, compassionate and mentally resilient. The suffering caused by the Holocaust would've given the people caught up in it an opportunity to grow mentally and spiritually. One hell of a rough ride, but an opportunity none-the-less.

that's why there is no fate, none of us are destined for sh*t!

Why, exactly? Bad things happen, so there can be no purpose to it all? That hardly seems logical to me.

i have answered this question numerous times, perhaps you are not reading my posts in their entirety

You haven't exactly answered it well. Care to take another stab at it?

if you cannot understand the truth, you will not be able to see the truth

You're a hypocrite. You put so much importance into understanding, but you don't have the empathy or patience to explain yourself.

what happens is what happens

Then why does God need warriors?

so i guess you believe that all those children killed in lebanon didn't have any other purpose than to die horribly at a young age

You're trying to understand a spiritual view of mortality by pasting one idea onto an atheistic mindset. That doesn't work. If God exists, and there is an afterlife, what's the big deal about death, anyway?

grendel 13

Sep 6th, 2006, 4:49 PM

You're trying to understand a spiritual view of mortality by pasting one idea onto an atheistic mindset. That doesn't work. If God exists, and there is an afterlife, what's the big deal about death, anyway?

see i've wrestled with this myself, and ultimately death is no big deal, i mourn for those of us left behind still living in this hellhole, and that is where it becomes a big deal, it's not just about the life being lost, it's about all those who will mourn that life, who will no longer be able to share their life with the one lost. and so your saying that we should just kill everyone because there's an afterlife anyway so they'll be better off. but anyways all i was saying is that by uki's standards those childrens only purpose was to die horribly at a young age, nothing more, because according to uki we all have our purpose and nothing we can do will change that.

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 6th, 2006, 5:00 PM

so your saying that we should just kill everyone because there's an afterlife anyway so they'll be better off

No, I'm not. I believe there's a reason for us to be here, like I said in my previous post. Just because I believe there's a life beyond this one doesn't mean I think this life is meaningless.

but anyways all i was saying is that by uki's standards those childrens only purpose was to die horribly at a young age, nothing more

Says who? Children can affect the world just as easily as adults can. Those children may have already changed and affected the people around them, shaped the world in ways we can't understand. Yes, those children's destinies ended in death. But is there any other way to end your destiny?

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 6th, 2006, 5:55 PM

it's is not called the wasting disease for nothing.
Nice attempt at a dodge, but I'm not going to let you get away with it. Please answer the question, uki. You said life is perfect. What about cancer? What about... losing your hearing in one ear?

if you cannot understand the truth, you will not be able to see the truth.
<< headdesks >> Buuuuuuut how can I understand the truth if I can't see it? Got circularity? Listen, uki... do YOU even know what the "truth" is? Because it seems like you don't, otherwise you'd be able to tell us. Obviously, you can't tell us what the truth is because you keep dodging like a coward. How about you tell us how you SAW the truth yourself? Because, I mean, YOU had to SEE the truth before you could UNDERSTAND it, right? This is YOUR reasoning here. And for the umpteenth time, can you be SPECIFIC with your answer and NOT use a sweeping generalization? Can you do this, uki?

like i said before... everything about you is a lie.
Like what? What lies? What are you talking about? Please provide ONE example of where I've lied on the forums. Oh yeah, that's right. You CAN'T. I haven't lied about ONE single thing on these forums. When I say that I'm a different person here on the forums, I'm simply referring to the simple fact that I'm more brazen and crusty. Face-to-face, I'm more polite and respectful to people. So like I said before... thinking that you know somebody based on their behaviour on an internet forum is childishly naive at best. For example, I realize that you probably act like a pretty normal guy in real life despite how you act like a wackjob here...

what happens is what happens. i am sure that on a human level i would be utterly devastated, yet it would be my faith that would give me hope... when things happen you obviously cannot change the fact that they happened, so it is better to learn all the lessons from the situation.
Yeah, the lesson learned would be:
LOCK YOUR DOOR.
If you were a responsible parent, you would lock your door and PREVENT the kidnapping from happening in the first place. But no. Uki has to be macho. You would rather see your daughters kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered instead of doing something as simple as locking your door. You're correct, uki, when you say that it is better to learn the lessons from the situation. BUT, the lesson of locking your door has ALREADY been learned by many people. Why on earth do you needlessly risk the safety of your family by insisting on learning this already-learned lesson first hand? You can learn from other peoples' mistakes you know...

i was asleep before i was awake.
How did you wake up?

truth is truth.
What is this "truth"? Please tell us...

uki:
What lies have I told?
What is the "truth"?
I will keep asking these 2 questions until you actually answer them. Please refrain from your typical sweeping generalizations if that's even possible...

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 7th, 2006, 1:11 AM

Buuuuuuut how can I understand the truth if I can't see it?

Think of it like this. A sequence of numbers here: 3 1 4 1 5 9 2 6 5 3. Might seem totally random to some people, right? But if you know a bit about mathematics, you can recognize it as pi to ten digits. The patterns in the world around us are similar, so complex that you can't really spot them without having a base equation to fit into the data. The base equation is generally found through theoretical application - the philosophers of the day.

Of course, because this is so complicated, there's always a question of whether we're coming up with a bunch of nonsense. And even if the equation is there, a lot of people find a fragment of the equation and assume it's the whole thing, meaning they use a code which fits some situations, but not all.

I have no idea whether that answers your question. Anyway...

nrj

Sep 7th, 2006, 3:01 AM

No, because human suffering isn't always an evil thing. It depends on what the purpose of that suffering is. Now, Hitler caused suffering because of his own biases and political maneuvers - that was wrong, and could be described as evil. To judge God, on the other hand, we have to understand his motives.

It's always been my theory that our purpose on Earth is to grow wise, compassionate and mentally resilient. The suffering caused by the Holocaust would've given the people caught up in it an opportunity to grow mentally and spiritually. One hell of a rough ride, but an opportunity none-the-less. So god sacrificed millions of people so that a few other millions could grow wiser? Isn't that evil too, or at least picking some persons over other ones?

nrj

Sep 7th, 2006, 3:02 AM

your eyes are still stapled shut my friend. You're eyes lack a brain behind them.

Like we say in Sweden: If you're in the game, stand the game.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 7th, 2006, 8:12 AM

Think of it like this. A sequence of numbers here: 3 1 4 1 5 9 2 6 5 3. Yes, I see what you mean here, PF. But with uki, he hasn't even shown me any numbers to look at. And sticking with this analogy, if uki understands the meaning behind these numbers, then he can easily tell me what they mean instead of being mysterious. What's with all the pussyfooting? Just TELL US. Acting aloof only serves to make me believe that HE doesn't even know the "truth" and is JUST SAYING STUFF...

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 7th, 2006, 10:11 PM

So god sacrificed millions of people so that a few other millions could grow wiser? Isn't that evil too, or at least picking some persons over other ones?

Sacrificed how? If the afterlife exists, and God is a being who can sense both worlds, dying isn't "sacrificing" someone, so much as having them move to a new place. And I think death is a learning experience, so it's not like we're talking about two different groups of people here, with one group suffering and the other gaining from the situation.

Yes, I see what you mean here, PF. But with uki, he hasn't even shown me any numbers to look at.

Well, at the risk of sounding like a self-righteous asshole, uki is one of those people who have a fragmented equation in place, IMHO. Most of what he says is nonsense, but you can occasionally catch bits of wisdom sprinkled in, parts he "gets". I doubt he'll ever discuss his view of the equation in an open manner, for two reasons; one, he doesn't understand that a wise man must be warrior, sage, healer, diplomat and teacher. He pretty much got "warrior", and maybe "sage", and stopped listening. Two, on some level he realizes that if he exposed his knowledge, we'd find places where the numbers don't fit.

Hmm. I wonder how uki will respond to this, if he does at all.

nrj

Sep 8th, 2006, 1:58 AM

Sacrificed how? If the afterlife exists, and God is a being who can sense both worlds, dying isn't "sacrificing" someone, so much as having them move to a new place. Um, if they were just killed, yeah, but they worked to death, got raped, starved, watch their relatives suffer from disease and cried to sleep as they watched it. It was hellish, and the pain must've been horrible. The physical pain no exception. And there was tons of youths living through this, kids no older than me.

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 8th, 2006, 4:27 AM

Yes, but again, suffering can lead to growth. I'm not going to pretend it's an easy path, because it's not. But it can lead to something greater. It's easy to look at where we are and see that as the be-all and end-all, to see the pain and anguish and think that's all there is to it, but when you look at it from a broader perspective, the meaning changes. Or at least, that's my belief.

nrj

Sep 8th, 2006, 4:43 AM

Yes, but again, suffering can lead to growth. So it's okay to torture people to near death, against their will? It's not like they were happy about it, or that they're happy about it now either.

uki

Sep 8th, 2006, 6:30 AM

Well, at the risk of sounding like a self-righteous asshole, uki is one of those people who have a fragmented equation in place, IMHO. Most of what he says is nonsense, but you can occasionally catch bits of wisdom sprinkled in, parts he "gets". I doubt he'll ever discuss his view of the equation in an open manner, for two reasons; one, he doesn't understand that a wise man must be warrior, sage, healer, diplomat and teacher. He pretty much got "warrior", and maybe "sage", and stopped listening. Two, on some level he realizes that if he exposed his knowledge, we'd find places where the numbers don't fit.

Hmm. I wonder how uki will respond to this, if he does at all.i never said i was a master of relating my thoughts into words... as for the whole nonsense thing, that just reassures the underlying principle of the truth... hence, read my signature... perhaps it will make more sense now. :scatter:

p.s. the world is always's looking for a sign, proof... so if you are still looking for a sign, it is apparent that you(humanity in general) are still too blind to recongize it for what it really is. i must admit... some folks are coming around.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 8th, 2006, 9:21 AM

uki:
What lies have I told?
What is the "truth"?

i must admit... some folks are coming around.
I want to BE one of those folks, uki. I want to come around. HOW do I do this?

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 8th, 2006, 10:02 AM

So it's okay to torture people to near death, against their will?

Not when we personally do it, but we don't have the viewpoint God does.

i never said i was a master of relating my thoughts into words...

Fair enough, and I'm not trying to be insulting here, or anything. I'm just describing the situation as I see it. It's not a problem if you're a little clumsy with the written language, or anything like that - we're all limited by the medium. I just think your occasional signs of arrogance work against you, rather than for you.

read my signature... perhaps it will make more sense now.

Well, yeah. I've always understood your signature. There's knowledge everyone shares, and then there's the more precious knowledge that few people truly understand.

uki

Sep 8th, 2006, 2:18 PM

I just think your occasional signs of arrogance work against you, rather than for you.i have always maintained the understanding that sincere presence is percieved as arrogance. most men of wisdom are seen as arrogant in the eyes of the fool.

There's knowledge everyone shares, and then there's the more precious knowledge that few people truly understand.you are so very correct... and usually when those few whom have this precious knowledge attempt to share it, they are recieved as arrogant, ignorant, fools, and all sorts of comforting labels... some to the extent of being put to death(amongst other horrors through-out the course of human history).

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 8th, 2006, 5:41 PM

i have always maintained the understanding that sincere presence is percieved as arrogance. most men of wisdom are seen as arrogant in the eyes of the fool.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I've known people so wise that they could utterly transform my view of the world with one well-chosen sentance, but they didn't talk down to me, or call me a fool for not understanding everything they said. And I respected them for their intelligence. Maybe "arrogance" isn't exactly the right word here... let's say you sometimes lack diplomacy.

For wisdom to be effective, it must be tempered with humility, because for wisdom to be gained you must acknowledge that wisdom is needed.

uki

Sep 8th, 2006, 5:57 PM

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I've known people so wise that they could utterly transform my view of the world with one well-chosen sentance, but they didn't talk down to me, or call me a fool for not understanding everything they said. And I respected them for their intelligence. Maybe "arrogance" isn't exactly the right word here... let's say you sometimes lack diplomacy.i am not a diplomat.

For wisdom to be effective, it must be tempered with humility, because for wisdom to be gained you must acknowledge that wisdom is needed.mankind is far beyond this point. in this age, for wisdom to be gained, the world must be destroyed. again this is all relative to the one whom has the wisdom... again, in this age wisdom is trampled underfoot by the masses... only thru their humble destruction will mankind be humble enough to accept the wisdom of the principles of nature... the law of the universe. all things must be taken away before men will see the truth... there is too much distraction... the inflection point is coming; look at the world around you... it is falling away because the truth has been rejected.

nrj

Sep 9th, 2006, 3:25 AM

Not when we personally do it, but we don't have the viewpoint God does.

So it's ok just because god think it is? Isn't that a little bit like dictatorship?

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 9th, 2006, 6:29 AM

So it's ok just because god think it is?

How is that different from any other ethical standard? If we assume morality is subjective, we each define our own certain code of conduct. If we assume morality is objective, moral codes are defined by an outside source. In this case, God is the outside source, and since God is either A) infallible, or B) very damn smart, he does seem like the best choice to define ethics.

Isn't that a little bit like dictatorship?

I suppose so. Of course, it's my somewhat controversial opinion that the best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship. A benevolent dictator can use all of his resources effectively to pursue growth and harmony, whereas a benevolent democracy (for example) must use much of its time and energy organizing to make sure everyone is on the same page.

The reason dictatorships are undesirable is that a dictatorship is far more easily corrupted than democracy, and that when the dictatorship is corrupted, it can do more damage faster than a corrupted democracy. As a human society with human failings, this must be taken into consideration. However, as God is theoretically beyond corruption, a dictatorship becomes the superior form of government.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 9th, 2006, 10:26 AM

uki:
What lies have I told?
What is the "truth"?
How did you "wake up"?

and usually when those few whom have this precious knowledge attempt to share it, they are recieved as arrogant, ignorant, fools, and all sorts of comforting labels...
But you're NOT attempting to share this "precious knowledge", uki. You won't TELL anybody ANYTHING. You JUST SAY STUFF...

look at the world around you... it is falling away because the truth has been rejected.
What "truth"? What are you talking about, uki? Please tell us about this truth that you speak of but don't even know what it is yourself... HA HA... what a FRAUD...

uki

Sep 10th, 2006, 4:41 PM

[INDENT]
But you're NOT attempting to share this "precious knowledge", uki. You won't TELL anybody ANYTHING. You JUST SAY STUFF...oh but i am, you are just not ready to understand it yet, otherwise you would've recognized the truth. to those whom it is given to understand... they will... to those whom it is not given, it will be their stumbling block.

[quote]What "truth"? What are you talking about, uki? Please tell us about this truth that you speak of but don't even know what it is yourself... HA HA... what a FRAUD... [QUOTE]so if i am a fraud, why bother to ask and keep pestering me? you apparently have everything all figured out. keep up the good work ork.

Sammy56

Sep 10th, 2006, 6:07 PM

for wisdom to be gained, the world must be destroyed. Yes, let's kill everyone! That will teach of wisdom so much faster then actually attempting to deal with our problems by fixing them without causing anyone's death or harm to the environment!

Do you even realize how absurd that statement is?

uki

Sep 10th, 2006, 7:10 PM

Yes, let's kill everyone! That will teach of wisdom so much faster then actually attempting to deal with our problems by fixing them without causing anyone's death or harm to the environment!

Do you even realize how absurd that statement is?the world is going to be destroyed by the forces of nature, the earth, and by cosmic means beyond human control... do you understand how absurd your limited understanding is? do you have any idea on the cycles of nature, the principles of the universe? do you have any true understanding at all? your eyes are still closed... when you open them, you will see the truth.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 10th, 2006, 7:41 PM

oh but i am, you are just not ready to understand it yet, otherwise you would've recognized the truth.
How do you know that I'm not ready? When WILL I be ready?

to those whom it is given to understand... they will... to those whom it is not given, it will be their stumbling block.
You have to be GIVEN this "truth"? Isn't that elitist? How were YOU given the truth, uki?

you apparently have everything all figured out. keep up the good work ork.
Why do YOU JUST SAY STUFF? I've never claimed to have everything all figured out. I don't. Where did you get that from? YOU'RE the one who claims to have everything all figured out, uki. I just want you to share your knowledge. But you WON'T. You "answer" questions by saying vague things that indicate that you really know NOTHING. I'm giving you an honest chance to PROVE that you DO know the "truth" to EVERYBODY here. But for some unknown reason, you won't grab that chance. This leads me to believe that you CAN'T grab this chance because you really don't know the truth yourself. Why are you being mysterious? You are chastising people here for being ignorant of your truth, but you won't tell us what that truth is. Why not? I'm not ready? Cop out. Just tell us SOMETHING, uki. ANYTHING will do. Can you do that? Prove to the readers here that you DO know what the "truth" is and then maybe we might take you seriously. Until then, you're simply pulling a Dr.Dino and you're JUST SAYING STUFF...

And you STILL haven't answered some of my questions:
What lies have I told?
What is the "truth"?

Sammy56

Sep 10th, 2006, 9:16 PM

the world is going to be destroyed by the forces of nature, the earth, and by cosmic means beyond human control... do you understand how absurd your limited understanding is? Fine. The world may very well be destroyed naturally in the future by "means beyond human control". However, that won't bring wisdom. That is what I'm calling absurd. If the world is destroyed, there wouldn't be humans around to learn wisdom in the first place. Your little theory there doesn't make sense.

uki

Sep 11th, 2006, 4:30 AM

How do you know that I'm not ready? When WILL I be ready?you second question answers your first one.

You have to be GIVEN this "truth"? Isn't that elitist? How were YOU given the truth, uki?i was given the ability to see the truth because that is what i chose to ask for. the truth is everywhere, it is all around us.

Why do YOU JUST SAY STUFF? I've never claimed to have everything all figured out. I don't. Where did you get that from? YOU'RE the one who claims to have everything all figured out, uki. I just want you to share your knowledge. But you WON'T. You "answer" questions by saying vague things that indicate that you really know NOTHING. I'm giving you an honest chance to PROVE that you DO know the "truth" to EVERYBODY here. But for some unknown reason, you won't grab that chance. This leads me to believe that you CAN'T grab this chance because you really don't know the truth yourself. Why are you being mysterious? You are chastising people here for being ignorant of your truth, but you won't tell us what that truth is. Why not? I'm not ready? Cop out. Just tell us SOMETHING, uki. ANYTHING will do. Can you do that? Prove to the readers here that you DO know what the "truth" is and then maybe we might take you seriously. Until then, you're simply pulling a Dr.Dino and you're JUST SAYING STUFF...

believe what you will... i DO have everything all figured out, this is what i asked for. no lies can stand in the light of truth. i am being honest with you, everything you wish to know has been given to you; you have all the answers you seek, why can you not see them or understand them?

Fine. The world may very well be destroyed naturally in the future by "means beyond human control". However, that won't bring wisdom. That is what I'm calling absurd. If the world is destroyed, there wouldn't be humans around to learn wisdom in the first place. Your little theory there doesn't make sense.why won't it bring wisdom? first you have to discern the difference between the "world" and "earth". the world will be destroyed, not the earth; the earth will be laid waste so that a new one will emerge... the world is the system of operation that mankind follows. this world is based on fear, suffering, greed, hate, lust, and destruction... all these things harm the planet, the solar system, and everything that dwells here and there. when i say the world will be destroyed i am saying that this system of operation in going to be destroyed... mankind will start all thing anew... mankind will return to nature instead of being a destroyer of nature.

nrj

Sep 11th, 2006, 4:45 AM

How is that different from any other ethical standard? If we assume morality is subjective, we each define our own certain code of conduct.

But, normaly it's cultures who define moralities, and the individuals are very likely to be affected by that. But in this case, it's only god who believes it's right to make people suffer, and the people are not very likely to agree with that.

If we assume morality is objective, moral codes are defined by an outside source. Or by cultures and MANY people, maybe? You don't need a divine source to give an entire culture a set of morals.

uki

Sep 11th, 2006, 5:22 AM

You don't need a divine source to give an entire culture a set of morals.not unless you wanted to control an entire group of people within the culture.

nrj

Sep 11th, 2006, 6:38 AM

not unless you wanted to control an entire group of people within the culture.
This debate is not about control, only influence of morals. Big difference, since controlling is more like commanding and expecting order, IMO.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 11th, 2006, 9:53 AM

you second question answers your first one.
No it doesn't.

i was given the ability to see the truth because that is what i chose to ask for.
This doesn't answer my question... as usual. Giving me a "because" answer implies that I asked a "why" question. I didn't. I asked HOW you were given this ability. Funny how a person who claims to have everything figured out can't answer ONE question...

i DO have everything all figured out, this is what i asked for.
Well then, WHY won't you share this with anybody? WHY exactly are you HERE?

no lies can stand in the light of truth.
WHAT lies? What are you talking about? How about giving answers instead of slogans?

i am being honest with you, everything you wish to know has been given to you; you have all the answers you seek, why can you not see them or understand them?
I DO see them and I DO understand them. But the problem is that YOU are telling me that I am wrong and that they are lies. How can I know for sure if you won't give me ONE straight answer? I want answers, not slogans...

why won't it bring wisdom? first you have to discern the difference between the "world" and "earth". the world will be destroyed, not the earth; the earth will be laid waste so that a new one will emerge... the world is the system of operation that mankind follows. this world is based on fear, suffering, greed, hate, lust, and destruction... all these things harm the planet, the solar system, and everything that dwells here and there. when i say the world will be destroyed i am saying that this system of operation in going to be destroyed... mankind will start all thing anew... mankind will return to nature instead of being a destroyer of nature.
Wouldn't a loving God simply GIVE us this wisdom? Why does God enjoy suffering so much?

loganosborne

Sep 11th, 2006, 11:24 AM

p.s. the world is always's looking for a sign, proof... so if you are still looking for a sign, it is apparent that you(humanity in general) are still too blind to recongize it for what it really is. i must admit... some folks are coming around.
Isnt looking for a sign or proof the only way we know something is true. Also maybe if this sign appeared maybe humanity wont be blind anymore.

for wisdom to be gained, the world must be destroyed.
how can we gain wisdom if we are all dead?

oh but i am, you are just not ready to understand it yet, otherwise you would've recognized the truth. to those whom it is given to understand... they will... to those whom it is not given, it will be their stumbling block.
Understand what? Know the truth to what?

the world is going to be destroyed by the forces of nature, the earth, and by cosmic means beyond human control... do you understand how absurd your limited understanding is? do you have any idea on the cycles of nature, the principles of the universe? do you have any true understanding at all? your eyes are still closed... when you open them, you will see the truth.
So how do we get wisdom if the world is destroyed and we are all dead?

when i say the world will be destroyed i am saying that this system of operation in going to be destroyed... mankind will start all thing anew... mankind will return to nature instead of being a destroyer of nature.
I don't see what that has to do with wisdom? If there was a natural disaster and it wipes out humans thats the end of the human race we wil be extinct.

you second question answers your first one.
Does it? To me they are just 2 questions.

WHAT lies? What are you talking about? How about giving answers instead of slogans?
I doubt he will give you any answers as all he does is dodge the question. So don't expect to get the answers.

I want answers, not slogans...
Yes I want answers as well. uki you seem to know so much. So giving me an answer shouldn't be difficult.

Wouldn't a loving God simply GIVE us this wisdom? Why does God enjoy suffering so much?
Giving us wisdom would be much more simpler for us. Suppose God is too stupid to figure it out.

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 11th, 2006, 5:19 PM

But, normaly it's cultures who define moralities, and the individuals are very likely to be affected by that.

Fair enough, but the cultural morality only exists as a template for us to build upon. Look at all the people on this forum from the same country (I'll say the U.S., since I think we have the most active members here). Many of us focus entirely on religion, others of us think religion is a waste of time. Some of us judge ourselves by our compassion, others by our intelligence, others by our experience. We might agree on the basics, but for most ethical decisions we still disagree. And you can probably find individuals within a society who disagree with even the most basic social laws.

But this is kind of a moot point. In a subjective morality, individuals decide on their moral conduct based on outside input. Society is one of the major sources of that input.

But in this case, it's only god who believes it's right to make people suffer

Really? Let me ask you a question - suppose you were head-over-heels for a girl, and she didn't really like you that way. If you asked her out, would you want her to pretend to like you, or to tell you the honest truth?

I can't speak for you, of course, but if I was in love with someone and they didn't return my feelings, I'd rather be shot down. Yeah, it's painful and nauseating, but it's better than trying to build on something that isn't there.

But the simple fact of the matter is that majority doesn't make morality. God is intelligent, he can see more than we can, and he's a bit better suited to figure out what's good for us than we are. If a teacher and twenty preschoolers are in a classroom, and the teacher wants all the children to take a nap, and the kids don't want to, who is in the right?

Wouldn't a loving God simply GIVE us this wisdom?

But what value does something have if it's just given away? I fought for my wisdom. It's precious to me.

And who would recieve what wisdom? Who deserves to know what? Would it just be given to everyone, all people are wise no matter what the time or place? Would everyone want it? And if everyone had it, would we notice it at all? If everyone had it, would it mean anything?

Why does God enjoy suffering so much?

Well, ignoring uki's chronical of events, suffering can be purification. Wood is sanded, metal is tempered, water is boiled. We do damage to these materials so that they can be better.

But the fact of the matter is that things change, and always have. Do I think the next era will be perfect? Nope. But it will be different, and for that to happen this era must slowly die. It's as painful a transition as the next - look at where we were in the 12th century, and where we are now, and tell me we haven't already changed.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 11th, 2006, 7:53 PM

But what value does something have if it's just given away? I fought for my wisdom. It's precious to me. I guess that I worded it wrong. I should've said something more like why can't we be given this wisdom without people getting killed. I understand the whole "no pain, no gain" thing, but the only people who are benefitting from that philosophy are the people who survive. The people who die don't benefit from the gained wisdom. Uki insists that the world will be purged and the survivors will gain wisdom that will make the world a better place in the long run. I'm sorry, but it won't. It MAY make the world a better place in the SHORT run. But, within a couple of generations, bad apples will start to pop up again and the cycle will begin anew. Uki's solution is short-term. And it's funny how he says that we're all blind while his "solution" clearly reveals HIM to be short-sighted. God returning to His Old Testament self is just stupid. He's been there and He's done that. Are you telling me that GOD, an omnipotent being with infinite wisdom and intelligence who is also supposed to be a benevolent God, can't think of a better solution other than just killing everybody? How original...

uki

Sep 11th, 2006, 9:26 PM

I guess that I worded it wrong. I should've said something more like why can't we be given this wisdom without people getting killed. I understand the whole "no pain, no gain" thing, but the only people who are benefitting from that philosophy are the people who survive. The people who die don't benefit from the gained wisdom. Uki insists that the world will be purged and the survivors will gain wisdom that will make the world a better place in the long run. I'm sorry, but it won't. It MAY make the world a better place in the SHORT run. But, within a couple of generations, bad apples will start to pop up again and the cycle will begin anew. Uki's solution is short-term. And it's funny how he says that we're all blind while his "solution" clearly reveals HIM to be short-sighted. God returning to His Old Testament self is just stupid. He's been there and He's done that. Are you telling me that GOD, an omnipotent being with infinite wisdom and intelligence who is also supposed to be a benevolent God, can't think of a better solution other than just killing everybody? How original...WOOOweee!!! that was a hoot... please, i do not mean this in an insulting way, but... man, you really need to enlighten yourself. you are taking everything completely out of context to the extent that you are only percieving the worst out of perfectness. do you not see that change is the way of life? there are no constants, everything revolves, metamorph's, transmutes, it all will change... everything is cyclic in nature... round... yet it appears to straight-fire at the same time. life is based on experience, and experience is based on change; if there is no change in life, there will be no experience... mankind must and can only move forward. those who perish in the proccess or during the transitions of change, will be manifested again in another life. we are all manisfestations of energy. yet our energy can change on a whim; our manisfestation is limitless. in everything there is wisdom and truth, everything.

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 11th, 2006, 11:22 PM

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 12th, 2006, 12:28 PM

WOOOweee!!! that was a hoot... please, i do not mean this in an insulting way, but... man, you really need to enlighten yourself.
But I've been TRYING to. YOU won't give me ANY answers, uki. I just get slogans out of you. How did YOU enlighten yourself?

do you not see that change is the way of life?
I'm a proponent of evolution, so of course I believe that change is the way of life. Duh...

life is based on experience, and experience is based on change; if there is no change in life, there will be no experience... mankind must and can only move forward. those who perish in the proccess or during the transitions of change, will be manifested again in another life.
So those who are reincarnated will learn from mankind's mistakes, right? But the population is growing at an exponential rate. Thus, there are "newbies", so to speak, who are constantly popping up who haven't had ANY human experience at all. This is where your little theory falls apart. You've failed to take into consideration population growth which requires an influx of new and inexperienced souls. Gaining wisdom from human experience in your little scenario will ONLY work if the population remains constant and the SAME "souls" are getting recycled over and over and learning from their experiences. If the population expands, then NEW "souls" are needed which have NO human experience. It is these inexperienced souls that will ALWAYS have the potential to become bad apples during their first few human lifetimes. So, to reiterate, your "solution" is short-term and unoriginal, not to mention extremely simple and childish...

Please answer this question, uki:
How long ago was the dawn of man?

Now

Sep 12th, 2006, 3:07 PM

So those who are reincarnated will learn from mankind's mistakes, right? But the population is growing at an exponential rate. Thus, there are "newbies", so to speak, who are constantly popping up who haven't had ANY human experience at all. This is where your little theory falls apart. You've failed to take into consideration population growth which requires an influx of new and inexperienced souls. Gaining wisdom from human experience in your little scenario will ONLY work if the population remains constant and the SAME "souls" are getting recycled over and over and learning from their experiences. If the population expands, then NEW "souls" are needed which have NO human experience. It is these inexperienced souls that will ALWAYS have the potential to become bad apples during their first few human lifetimes. So, to reiterate, your "solution" is short-term and unoriginal, not to mention extremely simple and childish...

Please answer this question, uki:
How long ago was the dawn of man?

Actually, this makes no sense. In asking the question "How long ago was the dawn of man?" you raise the point yourself. How many souls have incarnated into human form since the dawn of man? By what pretzel logic do you ascertain that population growth at this moment in human development will require brand new souls who have never experienced life in human form?

If we are to consider the concept of reincarnation, and we are looking at roughly 6 million years of human development, then it is easily possible that there isn't a single soul incarnate at this moment who hasn't been here before, with plenty of discarnate souls waiting for another shot. So it could very easily be the case that there are no "new souls," just the same batch reincarnating, with more than ever simultaneously present in human form at this time. It doesn't follow that the Earth's current population comprises the entirety of Soulsville.

It is therefore possible that all incarnate and discarnate souls could be in a constant state of development, which involves growth through trial and error, through suffering, and learning from our mistakes. It is the case that the greatest learning comes from our biggest mistakes, and our most intense suffering. These are common themes in most Eastern philosophies, and it is a peculiarly Western notion to consider it beneficial to avoid suffering at all costs. We "seek pleasure and avoid pain," but this is in ignorance of the fact that suffering is a vehicle to growth. Our avoidance of suffering ironically creates further suffering, due to non-acceptance and our propensity for distractions. All of the distractions we use to avoid pain, which include drugs, alcohol, gambling, retail therapy, excessive work, excessive sex, vanity, "keeping busy," television, video games and internet forums (oh.....fuck....) cause us more pain in some form. At the very least, they prolong our unconsciousness, during which time our pain multiplies and manifests as a long list of dysfunction, physical, mental and spiritual.

The Buddha would tell us that suffering exists to prompt us to find a way to move through suffering into enlightenment. He would also tell us that the causes of suffering are greed, desire and attachment to impermanent things. Our human form is one of those impermanent things, as is the human form of everyone we love and care for. The money and "things" we accumulate also fit into the list of impermanent things, as does every human relationship. There is plenty of fuel for suffering in the world we have created, particularly in our capitalist society where people foolishly assess their "worth" by what they own, or their perceived status. Since these things are all inherently impermanent, our clinging to and desire for them are simply suffering waiting to happen.

Therefore it is possible that human kind must endure more intense suffering than ever in history, in order to develop on the soul or spiritual plane. This may be exactly what is required to raise the consciousness of the collective, and assist us in rising up out of the collective insanity currently exhibited by the human race. We are making our biggest mistakes, which will bring about our greatest learning. Of course, this idea won't appeal much to Christians, because they believe that when you die, you either float around on a cloud or get your ass barbecued. But for those who believe in the eternal oneness of spirit, something that isn't impermanent, then this is one of the most exciting times in human history.

As the saying goes..."pleasure puts us to sleep, pain wakes us up."

Now.

grendel 13

Sep 12th, 2006, 3:42 PM

We are making our biggest mistakes, which will bring about our greatest learning. .

so these current mistakes are bigger than the whole holocaust thing? it just seems that if the human/spirit system works as you are suggesting, than humans have endured suffering for nothing, seeing as how humans are incapable of learning from the past.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 12th, 2006, 5:28 PM

Actually, this makes no sense. In asking the question "How long ago was the dawn of man?" you raise the point yourself. How many souls have incarnated into human form since the dawn of man? By what pretzel logic do you ascertain that population growth at this moment in human development will require brand new souls who have never experienced life in human form? You are thus assuming that there is a FIXED pool of souls in the universe, and a relatively small one at that. All that I'm saying here is that you just need ONE virgin soul to pop up and be a bad apple. Or are you implying that EVERY SINGLE soul in the universe has been incarnated in human form at least once already? Because if you ARE, then that means that there is a fixed number of souls in the universe which could theoretically be matched by human bodies if the human population continues to grow exponentially like it is now. So, sometime in the future, there will be more human bodies than souls. Hmm... I guess this is why God commits mass murder every now and then. It all makes sense now!

uki

Sep 12th, 2006, 6:03 PM

Jake99

Sep 12th, 2006, 7:34 PM

first you have to discern the difference between the "world" and "earth". the world will be destroyed, not the earth; the earth will be laid waste so that a new one will emerge... the world is the system of operation that mankind follows. this world is based on fear, suffering, greed, hate, lust, and destruction... all these things harm the planet, the solar system, and everything that dwells here and there. when i say the world will be destroyed i am saying that this system of operation in going to be destroyed... mankind will start all thing anew... mankind will return to nature instead of being a destroyer of nature.

If you recognize the sign which is who and what I say I am, you will get the wisdom and the truth without death and destruction. I am the proof that a better way exists to operate this planet. The operating system I recommend will protect from harm everything on and around this planet. This world will be destroyed by a new system of operating that eliminates millions of jobs and creates new jobs in whatever areas and fields of endeavor that can be justified with peaceful and prosperous intentions. That means no more militaries, no private banks, no comissioned salesman, no stock market, direct distribution of goods and services and no profits. Its not the hourly or salaried worker that is a problem its the profit based workers that are doing the damage to all of us.

uki

Sep 12th, 2006, 8:01 PM

If you recognize the sign which is who and what I say I am, you will get the wisdom and the truth without death and destruction. I am the proof that a better way exists to operate this planet. The operating system I recommend will protect from harm everything on and around this planet. This world will be destroyed by a new system of operating that eliminates millions of jobs and creates new jobs in whatever areas and fields of endeavor that can be justified with peaceful and prosperous intentions. That means no more militaries, no private banks, no comissioned salesman, no stock market, direct distribution of goods and services and no profits. Its not the hourly or salaried worker that is a problem its the profit based workers that are doing the damage to all of us.i do not doubt you one bit, yet first this world must collapse, otherwise there will be no room for another alternative way. everything must be taken away before something new can sprout, grow, and bear fruit.

nrj

Sep 13th, 2006, 6:57 AM

earth is not the only planet with humans, nor is this the only solar system with humans... and nor is a human the only sentient being with a soul... does this make sense to you ork? You don't have any evidence for your claims, nor do you even show how it is logical that there MUST be human societies beyond the realms of Earth... and nor do you quit with your usual "pull shit out of my ass"-tactic, even though we all say it doesn't work. Does this make sense to you?

Now

Sep 13th, 2006, 9:44 AM

so these current mistakes are bigger than the whole holocaust thing? it just seems that if the human/spirit system works as you are suggesting, than humans have endured suffering for nothing, seeing as how humans are incapable of learning from the past.

Yeah, I think it would be fair to say that humanity is collectively a "slow learner." I don't agree that we are incapable of learning from the past. We are certainly capable, it just seems that we continue to make some lousy choices. However, we generalize. There are many who have learnt from their suffering, in which case it has not been for nothing. Those who don't learn from their suffering will continue to suffer until they do.

For some people, a little suffering is enough, for others it requires repeated experiences. If recent events are any indication, it would seem that the people of Israel learnt very little from the holocaust, because they haven't yet worked out that its not good to slaughter people. So they will suffer yet again until they work out their role in their experience. You can't exactly cry victim when you are hurtling cluster bombs at civilians.

The most important thing we can do as individuals is to focus on what our suffering has to teach us. We can't do much about the people around us, because it is their job to deal with their own suffering. So if we are at least dealing with our own, we are contributing. If we give in and say "I am incapable of learning from the past" then we will contribute nothing.

Now.

B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

Sep 13th, 2006, 10:21 AM

earth is not the only planet with humans, nor is this the only solar system with humans... and nor is a human the only sentient being with a soul... does this make sense to you ork?
I knew that you were BSing before, uki, but this confirms it. It's HIGHLY unlikely that life on other planets evolved the exact same way that life evolved here on earth. The chance that human beings exist on other planets is infinitessimal. I'm sure that there is intelligent LIFE on other planets, but it is more likely that the life forms on these planets are NOT human beings like us. Good try though. In addition, it is also unlikely that these intelligent beings will have the same morals as us and their society would be quite different from ours, thus the life experiences that those souls accumulate on other planets simply will not be relevant here on earth. Just out of curiosity, uki, what makes you think that there is intelligent life on other planets and why would you think that they are human?

Uki:
What lies have I told?
How long ago was the dawn of mankind?

Now

Sep 13th, 2006, 10:34 AM

You are thus assuming that there is a FIXED pool of souls in the universe, and a relatively small one at that. All that I'm saying here is that you just need ONE virgin soul to pop up and be a bad apple. Or are you implying that EVERY SINGLE soul in the universe has been incarnated in human form at least once already? Because if you ARE, then that means that there is a fixed number of souls in the universe which could theoretically be matched by human bodies if the human population continues to grow exponentially like it is now. So, sometime in the future, there will be more human bodies than souls. Hmm... I guess this is why God commits mass murder every now and then. It all makes sense now!

Well, I did say in my post, from which you have quoted;

If we are to consider the concept of reincarnation, and we are looking at roughly 6 million years of human development, then it is easily possible that there isn't a single soul incarnate at this moment who hasn't been here before, with plenty of discarnate souls waiting for another shot. So it could very easily be the case that there are no "new souls," just the same batch reincarnating, with more than ever simultaneously present in human form at this time. It doesn't follow that the Earth's current population comprises the entirety of Soulsville.

So I'm not sure why you are wondering whether or not I was suggesting that. Was I suggesting what I suggested? Yes, that's what I was suggesting!

However, it is purely your assumption that this soul pool would be "relatively small." Relative to what? It could be a gazillion. Do all souls necessarily assume human form? No. And it could be the case that it has been a hundred thousand years since there was a newbie soul on Earth. Which would then make it the case that we have all been here before, including many more yet to return, well beyond the Earth's sustainable capacity. So your assumption that sometime in the future there could be more humans than souls to occupy them is not necessarily valid.

The concept of reincarnation is directly tied into the concept of Karma, or in Buddha's terminology, the cycle of samsara. Thus, our return to the cycle of birth and death is directly related to the outworking of our Karma dependent on our thoughts, words and deeds from the past and present. The notion is that as souls develop, as is the case in a single lifetime, there will be opportunities to learn, sometimes through joy, but more often through suffering. This notion is further advanced to include the concept that each soul is headed for the same place, enlightenment and the discontinuation of the cycle of samsara. So if we are here, we haven't got it yet. Therefore, those you are judgementally referring to as "bad appples" are in fact the same as you and I, just souls on the same path at a different stage of their development.

However, there are some experiences which could reasonably be considered to bring about a great shift of increased consciousness, for example, great suffering. Imagine a third of the Earth's population dying in the space of a couple of years. Those who remain would experience great suffering. It is possible that this intense focus of accelerated suffering could bring about a shift in the collective set of values, and a discarding of the old values which have not worked. This shift in consciousness could be a mass awakening, on the soul level and on the level of human experience. Perhaps we haven't quite suffered enough just yet to get it. We can turn to the past and say "Well we haven't learnt from other experiences of suffering," but we don't really know how we would react if the suffering were more intense than anything we had ever experienced.

So it is possible that after such an event or events that all Eartbound souls would have experienced the outworking of this collective Karma, and would have transcended the "bad apple" stage, coming back to Earth to live out the Karmic experience of peace, love and joy, until eventually there is no need to return at all. Your assumption that it is destined to always fuck up because it has fucked up in the past would suggest that you don't believe in evolution, when it refers to the soul or spirit. As tempting as it is to put that in large colorful letters, "B. Nye doesn't believe in evolution of the soul," I will resist.

Now.

Philosopher Foelhe

Sep 13th, 2006, 5:30 PM

it is also unlikely that these intelligent beings will have the same morals as us and their society would be quite different from ours, thus the life experiences that those souls accumulate on other planets simply will not be relevant here on earth

Well, not necessarily. You're assuming that morality is subjective here, which kind of makes reincarnation irrelevant in any case - why pursue the ultimate stance of wisdom when every guess about life's nature is just as valid as the next? If morality is objective, a race with souls compatible to ours would also probably have a similar ethical code. Almost certainly there would be major differences - much like the differences in our own eras here on planet Earth - but I imagine the basic code would remain the same.

Besides, it seems to me the basic ethical rule, the Golden Rule, is almost a necessity for the evolutionary path of an intelligent creature. The Golden Rule is basically formed to support a society, and a society widens the tools and information an intelligent being has access to. Which means a society-minded being would be more likely to survive than a violent-minded being. And once the Golden Rule is established, we've got the basis for a lot of laws we ourselves formed. The other race probably wouldn't develop exactly the same laws we do (assuming a subjective morality) but the ground is laid for a similar path. Possibly I'm wrong here, but that's my take on things.

SoulReaverKAIN

Aug 28th, 2007, 7:35 PM

Islam in the middle east is intolerant and it is because of this the muslims there
will be wiped out! by civil war!

DontBeAfraid

Aug 28th, 2007, 11:42 PM

Quit reviving long dead threads to spam your hate of islamists....
What you posted was not on topic for this thread and not the first time you have posted that sentiment on this board.

Cartesiantheater

Aug 29th, 2007, 1:48 PM

Islam in the middle east is intolerant and it is because of this the muslims there
will be wiped out! by civil war!

Is English your first language? If so, please write in a more readable fashion.

Anyway, what the hell does that have to do with the topic? You've now revived yet another long dead thread, as DBA pointed out.

Why not just post the same shit on a newer one? (although, I am glad you bumped it as some of the discussions were really good).

sammysquid

Sep 7th, 2007, 4:48 PM

Can someone please tell me when the next "proof of God" will be? I missed it last August. Thanks :confused:

UVsaturated

Sep 7th, 2007, 11:14 PM

Can someone please tell me when the next "proof of God" will be? I missed it last August. Thanks :confused:

It has now been moved up to this September 2007. Specifically between the 10th and the 19th, depending on who you ask. Some Christian circles are talking about the rapture occurring, with many of them saying that they have had confirmation. They say it will occur at Rosh Hashanah (Sept 13th)

Others claim the Timewave software shows all timelines converging on Sept 18th.

Your guess is as good as mine.

sammysquid

Sep 20th, 2007, 6:55 PM

Guess he missed his appointment what with all sorts of things cropping up at the last minute.:wink:

Ningishiddza

Sep 23rd, 2007, 9:55 PM

Yeah, I'm sorry for the delay, I was kicking his freaking ass and stomping his guts out. When he recovers a few months from now, maybe he'll have the courage to show his face.

Biomeister

Sep 30th, 2007, 2:11 PM

Would someone mind showing me where exactly in the Bible it says 'the Rapture' and proof that the 'true believers' will go to heaven? last time i checked, it isnt in the Bible.

iulian28ti

Oct 1st, 2007, 3:09 AM

Would someone mind showing me where exactly in the Bible it says 'the Rapture' and proof that the 'true believers' will go to heaven? last time i checked, it isnt in the Bible.

just preaching on TV to make you believe harder. nothing more

Traveler

Oct 1st, 2007, 3:43 AM

Would someone mind showing me where exactly in the Bible it says 'the Rapture' and proof that the 'true believers' will go to heaven? last time i checked, it isnt in the Bible.

This statement gets thrown out often and each time we give the scriptures to show it.

It is now becoming boring going over the same ground over and over.

Go look back over the past threads and read all about it there.

CurtisC

Oct 4th, 2007, 1:29 PM

Can someone please tell me when the next "proof of God" will be? I missed it last August. Thanks :confused:

Well, he's currently on tour. Maybe I can get my bible autographed next time I see him.

Max

Oct 4th, 2007, 2:06 PM

Why do you people even reply to these primitive nutcases? :P Dont give them a soapbox to spout their delusional fiction...

Sammy56

Oct 4th, 2007, 2:08 PM

Why do you people even reply to these primitive nutcases? Because this site is about debate and, this section specifically, is about debate of Religion, one of the most important topics throughout human history because, like it or not, it had affected our way of thinking and living for thousands of years. Religion is important. And what one person sees as delusion fiction another one lives their life by.

Max

Oct 4th, 2007, 2:13 PM

Which dosnt change the fact it is a delusional fiction which shouldnt be practiced or believed in this day and age, regardless of how long you have been brainwashed into to believing it.

Sammy56

Oct 4th, 2007, 2:18 PM

Which dosnt change the fact it is a delusional fiction which shouldnt be practiced or believed in this day and age, regardless of how long you have been brainwashed into to believing it.Not necessarily. Surely you can't see all religious practices as bad. Even if you have the grimmest view of religion possible, it would still occasionally do something that isn't bad. And by just dismissing the practices as "delusional fiction" you can't really find out why they are significant to other people and what purpose they serve. Even if you aren't religious, religion can be fascinating.

Cartesiantheater

Oct 4th, 2007, 2:30 PM

Why do you people even reply to these primitive nutcases? :P Dont give them a soapbox to spout their delusional fiction...

Well, although Sammy gave a well thought out answer, the reason I respond to the most wacko ones is because it is terribly entertaining... :D Just look at my sig. My garsh... how can you NOT crack up?

Ningishiddza

Oct 4th, 2007, 8:56 PM

Which dosnt change the fact it is a delusional fiction which shouldnt be practiced or believed in this day and age, regardless of how long you have been brainwashed into to believing it.

No doubt, but the key is education. I have no problem teaching the bible in schools, so long as it is done in the context of comparative mythology, so that they can be led into conflicts that destroy their false belief system.

Max

Oct 5th, 2007, 3:28 AM

I just fear that giving them the debate makes them think what they believe is right. It also gives them a chance to preach, but i suppose by remaining steadfast in pointing out the logical fallacies of their belief, even if the person you are debating with dosnt see your point, other people might. I know its the way I dechristianised! (And they say exsmokers are the most vehement against smokers, i guess its true with exchristians).

Oct 5th, 2007, 7:02 AM

I just fear that giving them the debate makes them think what they believe is right. It also gives them a chance to preach,

And your not preaching at this point?.... ..( und du vill understanz..und du vill like it)

nrj

Oct 5th, 2007, 11:36 AM

( und du vill understanz..und du vill like it) Totally out of topic, but what language is this, SR? The "vill" and "du" look like swedish, but the "und" and "understanz" makes me think it's german.

Sammy56

Oct 5th, 2007, 12:21 PM

Totally out of topic, but what language is this, SR?It's English nrj. I think it's meant to be spelled as English with a German accent.

Oct 5th, 2007, 12:24 PM

Totally out of topic, but what language is this, SR? The "vill" and "du" look like swedish, but the "und" and "understanz" makes me think it's german.

If ya left the whole quote.. it was on topic..LOL ( humor lost again,,,and SR needs a drink)

Cartesiantheater

Mar 10th, 2008, 9:17 PM

UVsaturated

Mar 10th, 2008, 10:26 PM

lmao! Fall of 2006 has come gone... no proof, but UV DID create the USB symbol! :Llol:

I had forgotten that you were a religious nuter type, but our recent debate reminded me, lol. I'm laughing with you, btw. But what happened to world war "this fall?" (fall 2006, according to OP)

I was being somewhat facetious when I created this thread. Partly because the end of the world as we know it will not happen in destruction, yet this is a forum that will entertain Armageddon scenarios, so it can't hurt to throw out what the websites were saying about the conflict at that time. None of those predictions were my predictions, but a compilation of different things pointing to a possibility.

Now about the USB symbol, I still contend I invented that and much much more.

Thanks for laughing with me. BTW, nice flat earth thread.

Cartesiantheater

Mar 10th, 2008, 10:35 PM

I was being somewhat facetious when I created this thread. Partly because the end of the world as we know it will not happen in destruction, yet this is a forum that will entertain Armageddon scenarios, so it can't hurt to throw out what the websites were saying about the conflict at that time. None of those predictions were my predictions, but a compilation of different things pointing to a possibility.

Now about the USB symbol, I still contend I invented that and much much more.

Thanks for laughing with me. BTW, nice flat earth thread.

Yes, it was all in good humor. Good to know you've got a good sense of one. :thumbs:

weederbro

Mar 11th, 2008, 1:21 AM

Soooo glad I stopped going to church.
The source material says that no-one knows the day or the hour.
Period.

UVsaturated

Mar 11th, 2008, 1:46 AM

Soooo glad I stopped going to church.
The source material says that no-one knows the day or the hour.
Period.

Hey weeder, it is actually a very telling scripture when he said that. Listen:

Matthew 24:36
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

It could be interpreted two ways. It could mean that no one actually can predict the time of his return and the day of the Lord (armageddon), or it could mean that it will not be known at all to anyone because it isn't the truth, except to the Father.

In other words, one interpretation means we are left in the dark and we aren't going to know when destruction will strike, and the other means that we will never be destroyed but armageddon will only come in the heavens - spiritual warfare.

Jake99

Mar 13th, 2008, 4:49 PM

My word is the sword of the lord which the judicial system lost to on countless occaisions when the challenged and tried to silence me.

What the son of god cannot predict is when he will wake up a believer and start the resoration and new non profit world government system.

The end of this age is up to finding a believer and it is just as hard for me as it was for Jesus who said the exact same things.

I could legally put nearly every judge behind bars for life for the crimes they commit daily as if it were standard proceedure. They processed me just as they did with Jesus and they got their butt kicked from start to finish.

jeffweeder

Mar 14th, 2008, 12:16 AM

jeffweeder

Mar 14th, 2008, 12:51 AM

could legally put nearly every judge behind bars for life for the crimes they commit daily as if it were standard proceedure. .

Why nearly every judge, why do you spare some, if your replacing the whole system?

They processed me just as they did with Jesus and they got their butt kicked from start to finish

Wyou still alive, if they process you the same way they process Jesus?

Youve never told us about your ressurection, but how you kicked butt, and seemingly won. Jesus just kept his mouth shut..and rose from the dead...Opening up truth and hope to long lost loved ones, undoing the shackles of death and ignorance, to the hope of everlasting life, and that by a graceful, forgiving honest creator, who loved you and died terribly for you...yes you, that you may recieve of this Spirit, and love and laugh and cherish the joy of being loved from the heart..forever. and they all lived happilily ever after, with a many of their ancestors present with them.

:frolick::frolick:

Jake99

Mar 14th, 2008, 6:23 PM

My mistake every judge on this planet is a wolf in sheeps clothing and a liar, cheater and thief. They inflict the pain of Satans system and are guilty of crimes against humanity.

Jesus failed to bring peace and prosperity to the world and he lost to the same judicial system I crushed like an ant. No man in all of time has been able to prove in court that he was the christ other than Jesus and I. Were you not told that the government would scratch the messiah and he would destroy them as a result?

Jake99

Mar 26th, 2008, 3:11 PM

Why nearly every judge, why do you spare some, if your replacing the whole system?

Wyou still alive, if they process you the same way they process Jesus?

Youve never told us about your ressurection, but how you kicked butt, and seemingly won. Jesus just kept his mouth shut..and rose from the dead...Opening up truth and hope to long lost loved ones, undoing the shackles of death and ignorance, to the hope of everlasting life, and that by a graceful, forgiving honest creator, who loved you and died terribly for you...yes you, that you may recieve of this Spirit, and love and laugh and cherish the joy of being loved from the heart..forever. and they all lived happilily ever after, with a many of their ancestors present with them.

:frolick::frolick:

Jeff you have been shewn a mystery that you are not capable yet to understand and you think you have all the answers but could not be the truth or the way according to the book you stand behind written by men you did not know and who did not know Jesus. The bible was written long after the death of Jesus and is just a guide for the messiah to follow and a hint at what is to be when god comes again for his kingdom.

How do you know what Jesus did in court and after his conviction? The jury found me guilty, sentenced me to death and was dismissed. The courts records were then published as a conviction. 30 minutes later after my third motion to dismiss was granted I walked out of the courthouse with the juries verdicts overturned which was not published. The jury sent me to the cross of death I just did not go there and they too were shewn one mystery after another for 2 full days. That has not been done before in the history of mankind except for maybe with Jesus I dont know I James was not there with him. Your judges tried so hard to get me convicted and in the end I convicted all of them and all of mankind of crimes against humanity which if it were not for immunity would have landed all of you in jail for life.

I said nothing throughout my first trial and nothing until I took the stand in my own defence at the end of the second trial. It was the words from my mouth and my strange and unusual actions that cut like a sword and set me free. And I have had my foot on Satan's head ever since. What did you do to stand against the deciples of satan who are elected kings of this world? And do you know who the 6 billion plus enemies of god are and why they are not allowed in the kingdom of God? That number accounts for you too Jeff since you promote man's ways and mock me who promotes gods ways. Be not too proud to open your ears and hear the truth as you were told you would from the mouth of christ in the flesh it is just a step in the process of turning the world into the kingdom of god instead of the kingdoms of man.

Jesus did not finish the mission and you are still a sinner no matter what you think until you are standing behind a man who proves to be the truth and the way.

I will then forgive all debts because the private banks and currencies will be gone. You will start over with a new monetary system and new jobs and be given credits to level you earned within reason. I will not be paying you enough to buy more than personal needs so whatever that level is that each person achieves is what will pay for the times when you did not work such as when you are young or old. There will be no gambling or land and business ownership in the kingdom.

I will forgive trespasses as the walls and fences and borders come down

And I will will forgive sins of the old world when you enter the new world and are reborn.