Beleiving in God without christianity

[Jack Of Shadows]

I think people would be better off if they just beleived in god but didnt do the whole christianity thing. First of all your religious beleif should go down to a personal level. Not a mob consciousness. This way you make your own rules for your beleifs set your own morals. This way you dont feel entitled to force your religion upon them cause it is your beleif and yours alone. This way if you have a problem with christianities teachings you can think for yourself. Religion is supposed to be a way for your to set moral standards for yourself and have a source of hope. Religion is not force it upon other and persecute others with conflicting ideas. Basically people waht I am saying think for yourself. If you bring religion down to a personal level its better cause its private and you dont bother anyone else

[Sammy56]

I totally agree Jack Of Shadows. I believe in God, but do not consider myself Christians. My main problem with Christianity was that I was not encouraged to think for myself, but accept the churches teachings on faith and by questioning them I would be lead down a "dangerous path". (Note: I know not all Christians advocate the "not thinking for yourself" stuff, but, sadly, the ones I have experiences with did). By leaving Christianity and figuring out my own idea of God, I learned much more about myself and the world around me then I ever did sitting in church. That's one reason I'm not a fan or organized religion.

[jeffweeder]

why??????????? do people associate organised religion with JESUS. ? People are so quick associate church or christian.....with Christ....Folks...this is BULLSHIT.
How about from now on we see jesus and the church as 2 totally different things.....because they are

I see jesus myself, but i dont recognise the institution as his. Are you missing something here?.

[Doomer]

People are fucking stupid.

This explains Christianity and all other religions for that matter.

What the hell is wrong with believing in yourself? Ain't it kinda stupid to have an imaginary friend who's more imporant than you are?

Think about it.

[jeffweeder]

I sort of agree doomer, but my friend aint imaginary, he alive man

[Sammy56]

why??????????? do people associate organised religion with JESUS.
Well, probably because Jack of shadows is from the United States where the biggest organized religion is Christianity. How can you separate Jesus and the Christian Church? They aren't the same, I'll give you that. But Christianity is based upon Jesus' teachings and his teachings are mostly spread through church.

[autryn2]

Jack of shadows wrote: I think people would be better off if they just beleived in god but didnt do the whole christianity thing.

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There's ALOT of people that do that........ they're called Jews and Muslims.

================================================== =======

Sammy56 wrote: How can you separate Jesus and the Christian Church?

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Jesus was the Messiah, THE Son of God, a light in this dark world, perfection,
.... a truth.

Organized Christianity is just that... organized by fallable, flawed humans. I go to an established church and I will tell you there is ALOT wrong with organized churches because of the people in them BUT 1) these flawed peple do a lot of good in this world and 2) I can assure you that they are no more flawed than you (or me).

I tried going it alone for a long time but you know what??? 1) I wasn't getting anywhere... mostly I just spent my time hurling daggers at organized religion and didn't follow Christ (or God)... I just wanted to complain without doing better (in my case: as good) as the ones I was complaining about. Rather than going about doing good I just wanted to sit back and complain. 2) Now that I'm a part of a group I get to add MY imput so my complaints about the way things are being done is actually HEARD by those in charge. In addition, I also get to contribute to charities that help local people who are indigent and have no food, clothing, shelter, etc... I also get the opportunity to talk to other people about God, which I wasn't doing before.

Organized religion is not perfect.... imperfect people (including myself) CAN NOT adequately represent that which is perfect. The only thing we can do is our best.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++

Jack of Shadows: I read a couple of "Shadow Jack" fantasy / fiction books many years ago.... is that where your handle comes from???

[Cornish Maid]

I think people would be better off if they just beleived in god but didnt do the whole christianity thing. First of all your religious beleif should go down to a personal level. Not a mob consciousness. This way you make your own rules for your beleifs set your own morals. This way you dont feel entitled to force your religion upon them cause it is your beleif and yours alone. This way if you have a problem with christianities teachings you can think for yourself. Religion is supposed to be a way for your to set moral standards for yourself and have a source of hope. Religion is not force it upon other and persecute others with conflicting ideas. Basically people waht I am saying think for yourself. If you bring religion down to a personal level its better cause its private and you dont bother anyone else
Do you have problems with JC Himself, or are they to do with people and all the complications that brings.

If you have problems with JC I would be interested to hear if you care to share.

[donniedarko]

Organized religion has been perverted from the beautiful thing it once was. Organized religion should be a communion of faith, we are social creatures, why not share some that brings joy to oneself with others? Why not congregate and enjoy together something that you enjoy yourself? Why is watching a hockey game alone at home on the TV fun, but watching it with a bunch of your buddies at the bar SO much better?

There are problems with organized religion, but they are the same problems that any organization faces beyond the community level, corruption, impersonality, the poisons of power.

As long as something starts and STAYS small, it appears to retain alot of its... goodness (?)

[Jack Of Shadows]

Do you have problems with JC Himself, or are they to do with people and all the complications that brings.

If you have problems with JC I would be interested to hear if you care to share.

IM guessing you mean Jesus Christ when you say JC. Of course not I beleive in god and Jesus. I beleive he died for our sins. My point is why stay part of a corrupt church system. Church is full of hypocritical and judgemental ppl. Which i think is more dettrimental to the whole faith. Your relationship with god was always supposed to be personal. Plus on this level you can make your own rules for your religion. Certian things that I support is technically not christian. IE Abotion Stem cell research Death penalty and Gay marrige. Basically I beleive my own ideas and dont force them upon ppl. I dont judge ppl for thinking differently. I dont codemn ppl to hell if they dont beleive. This is what I mean by beleiving in god but not being the average Arrogant judgemental hypocritical , Christian.

[Cornish Maid]

I don't think my Church is corrupt and I haven't noticed it being full of arrogant, judgemental hypocrites. I'm sorry you have had a different experience.

I think it is important to celebrate together rather than in isolation. We are the family of Christ.

You are aways going to get irritating people and black sheep but it's the same in all families isn't it. :toast:

[Jack Of Shadows]

[QUOTE=Cornish Maid]I don't think my Church is corrupt and I haven't noticed it being full of arrogant, judgemental hypocrites. I'm sorry you have had a different experience.

Open your eyes and ears then cause you must either be dumb or ignoring all the news reports about preist molesting children. About so called christians killing each other in Irelands. Church scandal after scandal. The christians stand against gay marrige and stem cell research which is being judgemental.

[twistedbutgiftid]

latley things have changed my mind. things have happened to me, that i cant explain. and i now belive in god. but i dont want to read the bible, and do the whole church thing, i thought beliving is enough, but i dunno. will i go to hell because i didnt go to church? im confused......

[Havoc Angel]

There is no need for any kind of premade mythology to belief in a god. Create your own principles, your own morals, your own perception, your own god. Anything goes, it's up to you if it makes you feel better and makes you more confident and makes you more balanced, more power to you.

[Cornish Maid]

[QUOTE=Cornish Maid]I don't think my Church is corrupt and I haven't noticed it being full of arrogant, judgemental hypocrites. I'm sorry you have had a different experience.

Open your eyes and ears then cause you must either be dumb or ignoring all the news reports about preist molesting children. About so called christians killing each other in Irelands. Church scandal after scandal. The christians stand against gay marrige and stem cell research which is being judgemental.
That may be the case in some churches but in my Church priests can marry and we don't have a record of child molestation.

The problem in Ireland is that the majority in Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK. They do not want a united Ireland which is a political issue.

This is the orthodox Churches perspective on embryonic stem cell research

http://www.oca.org/Docs.asp?ID=50&SID=12

[autryn2]

from Matthew Chapter 25... Jesus speaking:

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[SoulReaverKAIN]

I believe islams in the middle east worship Hubal aka Satan
where as in the US they believe in God...and practice at a moderate level
by the early teachings which was peaceful

[Sammy56]

Great generalization there SoulReaver.

I am willing to bet a large amount of money that there are Muslims in the US that think the way the extremists do and there are Muslims in the Middle East who are very peaceful and would never blow up buildings or anything that radical.

[Ningishiddza]

I believe islams in the middle east worship Hubal aka Satan
where as in the US they believe in God...and practice at a moderate level
by the early teachings which was peaceful

Perhaps "God" is Hubal. You can't prove he isn't. Nowhere in the new testament does it say that "God" is Yahweh, nor does it insinuate they are one in the same. Nowhere in the new testament does Jesus claim to be the son of "God" and nowhere does he claim to be the son of Yahweh. On the several occasions when he is asked directly or indirectly whether he is the of "God" he refused to answer. He was never asked if he was the son of Yahweh. He does make several vague and cryptic references to "the Father" but that is inconclusive since Jesus never identifies "the Father" as being "God" or Yahweh or anyone else. For all you know, "the Father" could be Lucifer, or Beezlebub, or Baal, or Bel, or any of a dozen other gods.

If Jesus was not the son of Yahweh, then there was good reason to crucify him. In fact, the new testament isn't even clear on the geneaology as Matthew and Luke botched it. Matthew says Jesus is descended through David's son Solomon. Luke disputes that saying Jesus is descended through David's son Nathan.

There we have a major contradiction proving that the new testament is unreliable as a source and that either the testament of Matthew, or the testament of Luke or both, are not of the word of god.

[daylatedollarshort]

Open your eyes and ears then cause you must either be dumb or ignoring all the news reports about preist molesting children....

... etc., etc...

Jack Of Shadows, you started out so well with your original post. Now I'm disappointed. Cornish Maid is not dumb, by any stretch of the imagination. And the behavior of some deviant wolves in sheeps' clothing is not grounds to condemn anyone's belief system. :(

I try to think for myself, also, and no longer claim membership in any particular religious organization. But it's been my experience that most people who do belong to a Christian church are not as judgmental as you describe.

My favorite Christian was a lady I knew many years ago. She belonged to an extremely conservative church, but she was kind and loving to everyone she met, regardless of their path in life. She used to say, "I try to catch 'em, but it ain't my job to clean 'em... it's up to God to do that."

[midnight21]

I agree. I hate to say it, but I feel a little jaded with the churches at the moment. It's hard to tell which one teaches the Bible the closest, and they seem rather corrupted and greedy these days with money. Then there's the Catholics, who apparently twisted everything...at least in christian beliefs.

I think that if you hold true faith in God, repent for your sins, and read the bible, you should be fine.

[Sammy56]

I think that if you hold true faith in God, repent for your sins, and read the bible, you should be fine.I believe it's even more loose than that. I don't think the faith or creed you subscribe too really matters. What matters is how you treat other people. If there is a God, he probably cares more about our interation with other people than our religious practices. I mean, what's more important? Upholding religious traditions in some old book or helping the sick, poor, and the sad people of the world?

[loganosborne]

I believe islams in the middle east worship Hubal aka Satan
where as in the US they believe in God...and practice at a moderate level
by the early teachings which was peaceful
That's got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on AO. I've been to the Middle East and all the Muslims I met were kind peaceful people. And I'm also sure that not all American Muslims are peaceful.

[phedrereine]

I don't believe in God or organized religion. Yes, it is like a mob consciousness and it is possessed of a certain arrogance. Still, I think it's far less corrupt today than it once was, no matter what religion you're talking about. I find it strange to say it was once beautiful and today it's not. There are corruptions in Catholicism today and in other organized religions, of course, but it's nothing compared to what history shows us. Imagine what it would have been like to live in a world where politics and religion were often indistinguishable. Think of the subjugation of the native peoples of the western hemisphere. Think of the Spanish Inquisition. Think of St. Bartholomew's Massacre. Think of how priests at shrines in the Middle Ages would refuse patrons the chance to pray to the Virgin or a saint unless they offered a valuable enough jewel or token. Think of the upper clergymen with overflowing coffers. Think of the Crusades. Think of the Muslim invasion of Egypt and the arrogance in burning the Library of Alexandria to heat bathwater for the soldiers, because it was in contradiction with the Koran. Then let's talk about the incalculable injustices done to Jews in the name of Christianity. When was organized religion beautiful? That's what I would like to know. At least today, in most parts of the world, political and financial well-being is not controlled or influenced heavily by religion. And priests molesting children? Well, some always have, just like in every other religion, I'm sure. There has always been corruption, but the difference today is that it doesn't bleed over into the secular world.

I agree with you that it's better to think for yourself. I think it's a great mark of individuality and free-thought. I have to say, though, that organized religion isn't half as destructive as it used to be. Many people are just so happy following along, and if that's what they need to get by in the world, then who am I to take that away from them? We all need our coping mechanisms. So I am willing to tolerate it. Until a missionary shows up at my door and tries to convert me to the love of jesus, that is. That's when I hear echos of our arrogant religious history. And that's when I shut the door.

[iulian28ti]

One thing i have to say: If we have free will, then why do we have to be christians to go to heaven ? Why not muslims ? Why not atheists ? You do not need to be religious to have morals...

Let's not go to atheism vs theism, let's just examine ourselves, and see that even if there's religion, there's still a lot of trouble. In fact, religion, like christianity, is the source for many problems: war and religious hatred, waste of resources on building mega-churches, waste of time, robotization of the young just so they can "learn god's true words" (BS !!!!! man wrote the bible !!!!)

And guess one more thing, the Church is an ego-driven institution.

Every religious group thinks they're the "fighters of god on earth". Pay attention when they say they are "chosen by god", "sent by god", "fighting to restore good in the world", "restoring good in the world can be made only through the scripture", "we must fight to keep the scripture alive" and so on, until...... They challenge eachother to prove they're the chosen, the fighters. Orthodox, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Protestants, and many other new groups which were built on the same idea, of being "the best" and fighting for god.

Oups, suddenly Jihad is no longer islamic.

[teray2009]

As far as christianity concerns, Jesus is the one who teach christianity. So because Jesus is the son of God, we can say that christianity exist together with God.

[HindSight]

Jesus taught Christianity? That's funny, I'm sure he taught 'The Kingdom is at Hand'. Hum ... must be a different book. I was sure he taught about God. My bad.

[Assassin X]

I stopped reading after the first insult to God. ANywho...

I think peoples problem is they don't hate religion or god or whatever. The problem is themselves. They find to hard to actually have faith in something they can't see. Thats the problem in the world. Everyone wants proof of everything. Were all so busy wanting everything shown to us that we miss whats in front of us. >.<

People can believe what they want, that includes believing in god WITHOUT being religious. They will still not make it to heaven. Its of no loss to me OR god. They have free will. They have the right to choose to be stupid. Eve bit the apple. Eve let you have your free will now. So feel free to use it as you see fit. Stop acting like your being forced believe in god.

Some will say "Well its all around me!" Guess what? YOUR ALL AROUND ME TOO! lol. I am always pressured by NOn religious people to not beleive. Try thinking about it from the other side. Were surrounded by each other. Some of us from both sides realize this and learn to live with each other. Others like you complainers are the ones making the world worse with your hate. And that goes for BOTH sides.

[Cyranothe2nd]

Assassin,
Really. You think the problem is that people demand proof for things?
Do YOU believe in everything you can't see--ghosts, demons, Shiva, Allah? If not, how do you decide which you believe in and which you don't? EVIDENCE.

[Assassin X]

You don't need evidence to determine something is real. If there was no evidence gravity was real would you believe it? Ok I guess thats kind of a tricky question. You know gravity is here, even if it was figured out. You feel it.

You feel wind, you know air is real. You can't see it. You taste things even though you can't see taste. You can't see sound waves but they are there, so science says.

Yes to some degree there is evidence on all these things. But point is even without ewvidence you still know they are all real. Same with God. You know hes real. More so in this case people know hes real but have lots of reasons for not admitting it. Fear, disbelief, anger....etc People need someone to blame in life and its him. They want their free will, but they don't want to accept the price that comes with it... and thats the fact that humanity suffers because we have free will.

Oh well. That apple had a string attached. You can't blame god for the worlds suffering. But you do. You only admit hes real when someone dies a horrible death, then gods god enough to exist to you because your angry at the world. Humans brought it upon themselves, and thus this is why we don't deserve to live anyways IMO. We are a hateful, evil species to begin with. We hate our maker because we don't want to accept things. How stupid.

[Goldmoon]

Then its not Yahweh.

Always test things to see if they're true. If you're not serving Christ, then you're not a Christian.

[Cartesiantheater]

As far as christianity concerns, Jesus is the one who teach christianity. So because Jesus is the son of God, we can say that christianity exist together with God.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7391/gallery2063317264oo4.jpg

http://www.scattercaw.com/Stuff/thread_necromancer.jpg

[Goldmoon]

Of course, anyone can make up a God that has nothing to do with Christianity.

Its easy. Billions are doing it. I did too, for my whole life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xil9Q4r1eJ8&feature=PlayList&p=7A411D7B51CC1183&index=0

Newsboys - Who?

How you gonna reckon with a God like this?
When you gonna face what you can't dismiss?
Whatcha gonna say to the ... soul kiss that is my God?
Fearsome like the sag in a fat man's chair?
Sweeter than a patch of Rogaine hair?
How do you define what you can't compare?
This is ... my God
And there's no use explaining what can't be contained
I'm not following a God I can lead around
I can't tame this Deity
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To who I want my God to be
He's who (I want my God to be)

How you gonna reckon with a God this great?
Why you wanna measure what you can't equate?
Whatcha gonna say to the ...
check mate that is my God?
Stronger than the burn of an aftershave?
Tender as a booger in your microwave
Rarer than the air in an empty grave
This is ... my God
And there's no use explaining what can't be contained

How we gonna work this out?
To fabricate a God like this no doubt
We'd end up worshipping a Christ of our own design
But Jesus doesn't fit that profile
His ways aren't mine

I'm not following a God that's imagined
Can't invent This deity
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To who I want my God to be
He's who I want my God to be