Gentle Reader

[Nasik]

Gentle Reader,

Do you believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
Do you believe that the United States invaded Iraq to export democracy?
Do you believe that the US is facing a “nuclear crisis” with Iran?
Do you believe that Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are protecting you from terrorists?

Then, I humbly urge you to review the recently dedclassified “Northwoods Operation.” (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf) This chilling document details several comprehensive options presented by the US military to the Joint Chiefs of Staff to “create” a necessary pretext to attack Cuba. It includes everything from sinking a ship to blowing up an airplane. If you tire of reading quickly, then please skip to the appendices.

Once you have finished reading, please ask yourself again, if you still believe Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or that the US invaded Iraq to export democracy.

I would be most grateful for your thoughts.

Regards,
F.O.

[Raptor Witness]

The U.S. government is doing this type of thing all the time to individuals it deems "enemies of the state." Remember what Bush said, "you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." That means he can and will kill you if you disagree with him or his policies, period. It's the pretext for the future killing of Christians who resist the Beast and the False Prophet. It's also why the true patriots within the U.S. government are coming forward to try and expose the Beast and False Prophet.

Christians, especially in high places, know full well that Katrina and it's corresponding prophecy was a sign from God. God NEVER destroys a city without warning, and they have threatened indirectly the man who published the prophecy. In this age, what seems good at first, is really evil, and seems evil at first, may really be ...

Mention the Kingdom of God too many times, and I guarantee they'll call you a subversive and try and kill or jail you. However, the simple truth is, the U.S. Constitution is in DIRECT opposition to the Kingdom of God. If Islamic theocracists are "fascists," as Bush says, then what are Christian believers in the Kingdom of God?

Be ready to give your head for Jesus, because those days are coming.

[Nasik]

Thank you Raptor for your input. You are passionate about your beliefs and I respect that, although I may not necessarily agree all the time.

I am hoping that some will realize that this document offers invaluable insight into the mindset of those that lead us. Some may argue that none of the scenarios presented were utilized, however, the critical thing to remember is that the Joint Chiefs of Staff had requested options for creating a pretext. I have no reason to believe that the leaders today do not employ similar tactics in order to garner public support for ventures abroad.

[skweeks]

Gentle Reader,

Do you believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
Do you believe that the United States invaded Iraq to export democracy?
Do you believe that the US is facing a “nuclear crisis” with Iran?
Do you believe that Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are protecting you from terrorists?

Then, I humbly urge you to review the recently dedclassified “Northroads Operation.” (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf) This chilling document details several comprehensive options presented by the US military to the Joint Chiefs of Staff to “create” a necessary pretext to attack Cuba. It includes everything from sinking a ship to blowing up an airplane. If you tire of reading quickly, then please skip to the appendices.

Once you have finished reading, please ask yourself again, if you still believe Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or that the US invaded Iraq to export democracy.

I would be most grateful for your thoughts.

Regards,
F.O.
Just to get the information correct, it's Northwoods not northroads. It can make a difference especially if people want to search for more stuff using Northroads and not Northwoods.
Regards
G.

[Nasik]

Just to get the information correct, it's Northwoods not northroads. It can make a difference especially if people want to search for more stuff using Northroads and not Northwoods.
Regards
G.

oops - thanks very much. I hope you post and let us know your thoughts.

[Nasik]

I've corrected it.

[Raptor Witness]

Thank you Raptor for your input. You are passionate about your beliefs and I respect that, although I may not necessarily agree all the time.

I am hoping that some will realize that this document offers invaluable insight into the mindset of those that lead us. Some may argue that none of the scenarios presented were utilized, however, the critical thing to remember is that the Joint Chiefs of Staff had requested options for creating a pretext. I have no reason to believe that the leaders today do not employ similar tactics in order to garner public support for ventures abroad.It's very subtle, but it's the same BS they pull on former government employee operatives who rat on covert activities. The cool thing is, I've witnessed God helping equally, and it makes me love Him even more. The Holy Spirit is the most amazing power in the universe. It's like a rainbow at the right moment in time, promising that after the destruction, comes the repair of creation.

NEVER FORGET, Bush was caught in a lie, which got us into Iraq. While I don't expect the man to be any more saint than Bill Clinton, I can distinguish between the evil of a blow job in the White House and the killing of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's in MY NAME. We ceased being a Christian nation when we struck FIRST! How much blood is on Saddam's hands vs. ours? Who helped in his(our) war with the Iranians for YEARS! How many died during that conflict? I think someone should do that calculation, but if you note VERY carefully, you'll NEVER hear that truth out of the False Prophet(electronic media.) Why? Because the truth is not in them. They can character assassinate anyone they choose, for any reason they can dream up. This is why God sends them two men who cannot be harmed so easily. Two men who will flame them up one side and down the other, until they are crispy. Two men who are God's terrorists.

[Nasik]

You've made some insightful comments that I completely agree with. The mainstream media is owned by a short list of large corporations. It is not controversial to state that the corporation's mantra is "maximum profit." This consideration supercedes the "who, what, where and why" we are taught to believe in.

News must go through several filters before it reaches the public: it must not make the sponsors look bad; it must not make the affiliates look bad; and it must keep us in a buying mood.

I firmly believe you should be skeptical of the mainstream news and make efforts to balance your information from other sources, for instance, independent reporters.

[skweeks]

Believe in nothing you hear from Mainstream media.There are always hidden agendas.Once you get the whole picture you can read through the articles and see which ones are truth, semi-truth, and flat out propaganda.I'll admit it takes a bit of time to get into the sorting you have to do to find out the real story, or why mainstream media is reporting on a topic a certain way, but what you will get it the truth after you dig enough.Once you realize that we are, not so slowly, being conditioned to act like sheep.
No offense to Raptor there, but religion is one of the all time great "herders" of people, in getting to do what those in power want.I for one believe in spirituality,without the religious garbage attached.I do not need a book or some person telling me how to be good, you either have it in you or refuse to use it.People may turn to a god and say"Well he/she saved my life"
Sorry to break your bubble, but it was YOU and YOU alone that saved yourself.
I see the powers that be, realizing this, that the great religion tool is starting to crack.It is time for them to be the gods.Kinda silly, they always were in a sense, controlling everyone.
So now we are slowly but surely putting them in the god status,by complying and just letting them walk all over us.They know thay got us hooked, we will not sacrifice even the smallest iota to fight.We are all dumbed down.By we I mean the vast majority, we few here know better, but without the numbers backing us up, and people not willing to sacrifice, they will win.
LiSten F.O.
They are into everything, and I mean every facet of our lives.From the time we are born, we are conditioned to be so self absorbed that we care not what is going on around us, but rather, the clothes we wear,the material things we have,are now most important to us.Until the corporate elites are taken out and beaten for what they have done to Government and made to leave it alone and to actually run the way it was supposed to be,we will continue down this path.
I truely hope that the 2012 enlightenment Mayan thing will happen as some predict.We trueley need a new direction to go in.
G.

[lycanox]

Gentle Reader,

[QUOTE]Do you believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
Yes, they did used them in the past, and you cant use weapons you don't have.

Do I believe Iraq had them at the time of the golf wars?
No. They had every opportunity and reason to use them, but they didn't.
Perhaps they ran out of them, or sold them to other countries.



Do you believe that the United States invaded Iraq to export democracy?
If i remember correctly, the first democrats where pirates. However i doubt it was the main goal, of the war, it was definitely one of their reasons. unstable democratic countries are much easier to control than countries ruled by dictators.


Do you believe that the US is facing a “nuclear crisis” with Iran?
Yes. When they bomb iran's nuclear installations, there is an chance that much of the radioactive material finds it way into the air. I doubt countries like India, Pakistan, china and Russia likes to be faced with an second chernobyl.



Do you believe that Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are protecting you from terrorists?
Well asides from themselves they have a lot of other groups trying to harm the country. they simply cant allow all these plans to succeed. Aldo its mostly to protect their own plans instead of the civilians.

[Demonskates]

Gentle Reader,

Do you believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
Do you believe that the United States invaded Iraq to export democracy?
Do you believe that the US is facing a “nuclear crisis” with Iran?
Do you believe that Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are protecting you from terrorists?

Then, I humbly urge you to review the recently dedclassified “Northwoods Operation.” (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf) This chilling document details several comprehensive options presented by the US military to the Joint Chiefs of Staff to “create” a necessary pretext to attack Cuba. It includes everything from sinking a ship to blowing up an airplane. If you tire of reading quickly, then please skip to the appendices.

Once you have finished reading, please ask yourself again, if you still believe Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or that the US invaded Iraq to export democracy.

I would be most grateful for your thoughts.

Regards,
F.O.
Im not sure why this suprises you.
second,this file is from march of 1962,by october of 1962 the U.S. and cuba were at the height of the cuban missle crisis.The U.S. govt. had every right to be uptight about cuba,things had been going bad there for a while.This file looks to me like a premptive strike proposal to avert missle silos ever being made in cuba.Being it was drafted in march,before that convoy of russian ships decided to drop off nuclear weapons to thier commrads in cuba.(which we blockaded)apparently Kennedy opted for another course of action,allowing Cuba,and Russia to be the aggresors,which was the better move.(If u dont count the assasinatin attempts on Castro,which were very embarrising for the Kennedy administration)The blockade was effective,Cruschev backed down and the ships went back to russia with its nuclear payload.
Had they used the other option,(Like the file u presented)Things could have very quickly deteriorated into war with Cuba and Russia.The world would be a very diffrent place right now.
What I will give you is,that the U.S. is very underhanded at times,the millitary has no problem doing the unthinkable in the name of u.s. intrests.In this instance,in 1962,with things being really hostile between the U.S. and Russia,this document does not suprise me in the least,it reflects the tensions of that time period,the U.S. had some really hard things to consider.(Like a communist nuclear missle site 90 miles of the coast of the U.S.)The communists were right at our back door.
Does it relate to U.S. policy today,sure,its completly relevant,40 years from now,when the stuff thats classified is declassified,you will probablly see things just like the document u provided.(If those files will even exist in 40 years)
I can see what you are getting at as far as Iraq,possibly Iran is concerned.
Our govt. will do whatever it deems is nesscesary to further our intrests.
But i also ask you to look at what Kennedy chose to do instead of what was proposed in that document.It shows he used good judgement.He used tact,and averted war,while at the same time removing the nuclear threat from our backyard,no small feat to accomplish given the circumstances.
Now Bush on the other hand,cant hold a candle to Kennedy.Bush is nowhere near the man Kennedy was.
I pray Americans can find some hope taken from the examples made by Kennedy,that sometimes our presidents make the right choices.Bush's term is almost up.Have hope that we will have a better president who will make the right choices.Who will not use "pretexts" or make up incedents to get us involved in war.
I really admire Kennedy,i hope we have a president like him next election.

[Cartesiantheater]

Gentle Reader,

Do you believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?

I believe that it is reasonable that officials believed that it was a possibility. However, there is no evidence either way. The "evidence" you are presenting is called hear say. You have no reason to believe this stuff aside from your inherent mistrust of those in power. It's all a conspiracy... You will be convinced by the weakest evidence, because you were convinced before you saw the evidence (that is- there is no evidence).



Do you believe that the United States invaded Iraq to export democracy? I don't believe that they originally said that the reason was to export democracy. Did they not say that they invaded Iraq because of Iraq's unwillingness to allow searches for WMD?



Do you believe that the US is facing a “nuclear crisis” with Iran?
Do you not believe that it is possible? What with the missiles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4871078.stm) they shot off?


Do you believe that Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are protecting you from terrorists?

By protecting US citizens, they are protecting their own pocket books. Who are the richest, most gluttonous people alive? Americans. And they are taxed and spend money that goes directly to the Gov. So it stands to reason that it is in the best interest of Bush and Cheney to protect US citizens.

[Cartesiantheater]

Believe in nothing you hear from Mainstream media.There are always hidden agendas.
First, I want to say two things: A.) By what EVIDENCE have you come to this conclusion? B.) If mainstream media has hidden agendas, how can you be sure that alternative media do not have hidden agendas (i.e. POLITICAL)?

[MagneettiMies]

Cuba and Venezuela are now also declared to be a part of "axis of evil" by the US. This is crazy. What country will be next? Iceland?

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=19151

[skweeks]

First, I want to say two things: A.) By what EVIDENCE have you come to this conclusion? B.) If mainstream media has hidden agendas, how can you be sure that alternative media do not have hidden agendas (i.e. POLITICAL)?
Well things like Mercury in vaccines are good for ya
Mercury is good (http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/september2004/230904mercurygood.htm)
The five different world trade stories that the Governemnt has had.The fact that No Mainstream media will even talk about bldg. 7 at all with any kind of vigour.Use your head man the agenda is the Governments, not ours.
And you are most certainly correct in saying that other media outlets are actually doing the same thing.You have to pick the ones that make sense to you regarding as how the world around you.For eg. If you are just totally wrapped up in yourself and your little "life", then mainstream news fits in for you perfectly.They tell you what they deem to be news, with the spin they want, and you watch and think that you are informed.You go back to the office and say "Hey.. did ya see the news last night about the stuff goin on in Iraq? Damn they got WMD'S!!".Whatever,they needed an excuse to get over there and build more permanent bases, Rumsfeld , dick and George needed some business.
I mean it's no different to me whether you believe it or not, I actually could care less about the people who will not open thier eyes when they are shown the truth.You can only bonk thier heads so much and if they don't come around, then , so be it.
G.

[loganosborne]

Do you believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?

Not sure personally. America believed there was possibility they did. But there was no evidence either way.

Do you believe that the United States invaded Iraq to export democracy?
It was one of many aims. Other aims include getting rid of their wapons of mass destruction and proberly oil.

Do you believe that the US is facing a “nuclear crisis” with Iran?
Yes.

Believe in nothing you hear from Mainstream media.There are always hidden agendas.Once you get the whole picture you can read through the articles and see which ones are truth, semi-truth, and flat out propaganda.
How do you work out which ones are propaganda, semi truth or the actual truth. Also what evidence have you got mainstream media have secret agendas and how do you know that inderpendant media does not have secret agendas.
Well asides from themselves they have a lot of other groups trying to harm the country. they simply cant allow all these plans to succeed. Aldo its mostly to protect their own plans instead of the civilians.
Yep I agree with that statement :2thumbs: .

First, I want to say two things: A.) By what EVIDENCE have you come to this conclusion? B.) If mainstream media has hidden agendas, how can you be sure that alternative media do not have hidden agendas (i.e. POLITICAL)?
Yep I agree with that how do we know that alternative media doesn't have secret agendas.

Cuba and Venezuela are now also declared to be a part of "axis of evil" by the US. This is crazy. What country will be next? Iceland?
Any country thats anti-american will end up on that list. I was wondering how long it would be before Venezuela would be added after The Iranian president and Chavez seemed to get on like a house on fire.

[skweeks]

Well in regards to figuring out which are true or not, mainstream or Other, I find that when you are actually on the right train of thought so to speak, you can alost tell what news is gonna come next and why it's coming at that point.Whether it be for political deflection of judgement calls, or whatever.I mean really couldn't you actually tell beforehand that a plot like that which was uncovered in the UK, was almost certain to happen? I could tell a while before that something big was gonna be "busted", just by the way each of the countries had had plots foiled and turn out to be pretty much setups.
The thing I see coming next though is something real large and it's gonna get carried out.It's the only way for them to galvenize us into bending into the shape they want us to be.Ass up!
I am scared to death that this will happen sometime soon, and the playing field will be changed forever.
I plan on telling those that I can and trying to wake up people, but at the same time I'm gonna live each day like it could be the last.I am not gonna go hide in the house forever and just take it as it comes.I suggest everyone have some kind of plan incase the crap hits the fan.Have it in place for the ones you love, and keep living life.No matter what happens,life is too short,you must not crawl in a hole..yet!Join the fight if you like, whatever floats yer boat.
Don't hide in a hole until ya got to, and don't be stupid enough to not have a plan of some sorts because you think it's not neccesary.
G.

[Nasik]

Im not sure why this suprises you.
second,this file is from march of 1962,by october of 1962 the U.S. and cuba were at the height of the cuban missle crisis.The U.S. govt. had every right to be uptight about cuba,things had been going bad there for a while.This file looks to me like a premptive strike proposal to avert missle silos ever being made in cuba.Being it was drafted in march,before that convoy of russian ships decided to drop off nuclear weapons to thier commrads in cuba.(which we blockaded)apparently Kennedy opted for another course of action,allowing Cuba,and Russia to be the aggresors,which was the better move.(If u dont count the assasinatin attempts on Castro,which were very embarrising for the Kennedy administration)The blockade was effective,Cruschev backed down and the ships went back to russia with its nuclear payload.
Had they used the other option,(Like the file u presented)Things could have very quickly deteriorated into war with Cuba and Russia.The world would be a very diffrent place right now.
What I will give you is,that the U.S. is very underhanded at times,the millitary has no problem doing the unthinkable in the name of u.s. intrests.In this instance,in 1962,with things being really hostile between the U.S. and Russia,this document does not suprise me in the least,it reflects the tensions of that time period,the U.S. had some really hard things to consider.(Like a communist nuclear missle site 90 miles of the coast of the U.S.)The communists were right at our back door.
Does it relate to U.S. policy today,sure,its completly relevant,40 years from now,when the stuff thats classified is declassified,you will probablly see things just like the document u provided.(If those files will even exist in 40 years)
I can see what you are getting at as far as Iraq,possibly Iran is concerned.
Our govt. will do whatever it deems is nesscesary to further our intrests.
But i also ask you to look at what Kennedy chose to do instead of what was proposed in that document.It shows he used good judgement.He used tact,and averted war,while at the same time removing the nuclear threat from our backyard,no small feat to accomplish given the circumstances.
Now Bush on the other hand,cant hold a candle to Kennedy.Bush is nowhere near the man Kennedy was.
I pray Americans can find some hope taken from the examples made by Kennedy,that sometimes our presidents make the right choices.Bush's term is almost up.Have hope that we will have a better president who will make the right choices.Who will not use "pretexts" or make up incedents to get us involved in war.
I really admire Kennedy,i hope we have a president like him next election.

An excellent excellent post. Very thoughtful. Many excellent responses received and I found yours very interesting and helpful. I found myself agreeing with everything you have said. Thanks.

[Nasik]

unstable democratic countries are much easier to control than countries ruled by dictators

Thanks very much. You made some good comments. Just one point I'd like to add if I can, the opposite of the above comment is actually true. The dictator does all the dirty work, keeps the people in line, and provided they play ball correctly, the situation is evidently mutally beneficial. (Please don't mistake me, I don't agree with the idea)

Thanks again.

[Nasik]

I believe that it is reasonable that officials believed that it was a possibility. However, there is no evidence either way. The "evidence" you are presenting is called hear say. You have no reason to believe this stuff aside from your inherent mistrust of those in power. It's all a conspiracy... You will be convinced by the weakest evidence, because you were convinced before you saw the evidence (that is- there is no evidence).

Thank you for your input. I'm not sure I understand your application of the term "heresay" or how it supports your point. I followed the UN meetings closely and read some of the reports produced from those meetings. It was clear that the US/UK were not able to produce credible evidence to support the assertion of WMD. UN Inspectors were advised to leave Iraq by the US as they were about to carry out their initial airstrike.


I don't believe that they originally said that the reason was to export democracy. Did they not say that they invaded Iraq because of Iraq's unwillingness to allow searches for WMD?

If I may, they actually peddled several pretexts prior to the invasion, beginning with a connection between Saddam and 9/11 - this quickly proved unfounded and Rice conceded this connection was "tenous." The next pretext was WMD - I won't repeat my above comments, but it's worth recalling the infamous "smoking gun" in the form of a "mushroom cloud" speech. The next pretext was that Saddam must step down, but following an Azores summit, days before "shock and awe," Bush and Blair emerged with the declaration that a regime change was needed and they had to liberate the Iraqi's.

Really, what one believes depends on what day they turned on the television. That the reasons continually evolved to circumvent difficulties presented by emerging facts, leads me to be quite skeptical.



Do you not believe that it is possible? What with the they shot off?

Possibly but I don't believe they are on a mission to blow up Israel or the US. If they were pursuing the development of such a weapon it would be to serve as a deterent to a possible US attack.


By protecting US citizens, they are protecting their own pocket books. Who are the richest, most gluttonous people alive? Americans. And they are taxed and spend money that goes directly to the Gov. So it stands to reason that it is in the best interest of Bush and Cheney to protect US citizens.

Don't mistake me. I think the core of the problem is that they have augmented terrorism by invading Iraq, and failing to take initiatives to protect acknowledged weaknesses, for example, sea ports. I don't believe these guys think WWIII is a reasonable consequence of their actions. I simply believe their vision is myopic and their priorities center on enhancing their wealth rather than the safety of the nation. This situation, they way I see it, exposes the nation to dangers.

[Nasik]

Cuba and Venezuela are now also declared to be a part of "axis of evil" by the US. This is crazy. What country will be next? Iceland?

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=19151

No, Canada!

[Nasik]

Well in regards to figuring out which are true or not, mainstream or Other, I find that when you are actually on the right train of thought so to speak, you can alost tell what news is gonna come next and why it's coming at that point.Whether it be for political deflection of judgement calls, or whatever.I mean really couldn't you actually tell beforehand that a plot like that which was uncovered in the UK, was almost certain to happen? I could tell a while before that something big was gonna be "busted", just by the way each of the countries had had plots foiled and turn out to be pretty much setups.
The thing I see coming next though is something real large and it's gonna get carried out.It's the only way for them to galvenize us into bending into the shape they want us to be.Ass up!
I am scared to death that this will happen sometime soon, and the playing field will be changed forever.
I plan on telling those that I can and trying to wake up people, but at the same time I'm gonna live each day like it could be the last.I am not gonna go hide in the house forever and just take it as it comes.I suggest everyone have some kind of plan incase the crap hits the fan.Have it in place for the ones you love, and keep living life.No matter what happens,life is too short,you must not crawl in a hole..yet!Join the fight if you like, whatever floats yer boat.
Don't hide in a hole until ya got to, and don't be stupid enough to not have a plan of some sorts because you think it's not neccesary.
G.

I agree with your position. The point is to extend the margins of knowledge. If you must search other news outlets I can hardly see how that would harm you. If you treat mainstream media with some skepticism, which doesn't mean discounting everything just being prudent and make good efforts to inform yourself, how can it do anything but help.

The opposition contention, to believe utterly mainstream media, is niavee. If a person refuses to expand beyond those boundaries, I don't believe anyone would be able to convince them to do otherwise.

[loganosborne]

Thanks very much. You made some good comments. Just one point I'd like to add if I can, the opposite of the above comment is actually true. The dictator does all the dirty work, keeps the people in line, and provided they play ball correctly, the situation is evidently mutally beneficial. (Please don't mistake me, I don't agree with the idea)
You have to ask yourself a question was Iraq in better situation when Saddam was in charge or are they now.

It was clear that the US/UK were not able to produce credible evidence to support the assertion of WMD.
That was one of the reasons why I was against the war there was no evidence that Iraq had WMD, But for all we know Iraq might have sold them to another country.

If I may, they actually peddled several pretexts prior to the invasion, beginning with a connection between Saddam and 9/11 - this quickly proved unfounded and Rice conceded this connection was "tenous." The next pretext was WMD - I won't repeat my above comments, but it's worth recalling the infamous "smoking gun" in the form of a "mushroom cloud" speech.
There were many aims and I found that the aims changed a lot after they were disproven.

Possibly but I don't believe they are on a mission to blow up Israel or the US. If they were pursuing the development of such a weapon it would be to serve as a deterent to a possible US attack.
Personally I don't think Iran are going to attack the U.S. Isreal im not sure. Isreal does have a right to be concerned from an attack from Iran remember what Iranian president has said about Isreal. One of the things he said Isreal should be wiped off the map of the world. I can also agree with what you have said as well they could just use them as defence so countries like America and Isreal think twice before attacking.

I agree with your position. The point is to extend the margins of knowledge. If you must search other news outlets I can hardly see how that would harm you. If you treat mainstream media with some skepticism, which doesn't mean discounting everything just being prudent and make good efforts to inform yourself, how can it do anything but help.
Ok I agree with you there you should always look round don't always read your article from one place as F.O has said it wont hurt looking round. But the mainstream media are not always wrong though that was the point I was trying to get across mainly. Pesonally I treat a lot of articles with a little skepticism but it doesn't mean I completly discount it.
This is a good thread to F.O it has raised some interesting topics :2thumbs: .

[Cartesiantheater]

Possibly but I don't believe they are on a mission to blow up Israel or the US. If they were pursuing the development of such a weapon it would be to serve as a deterent to a possible US attack.
Why do you think this? Didn't Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad specifically say that the solution to the mid-east problems was to "destroy Israel?"

(btw, I don't EVER watch television. So, appologies if my conjecture is incorrect {which then begs the question, how did the mainstream press brainwash me?)

[Demonskates]

An excellent excellent post. Very thoughtful. Many excellent responses received and I found yours very interesting and helpful. I found myself agreeing with everything you have said. Thanks.
Thank you Freaked Out,That document was fascinating to read,great thread.Although, i did not answer your questions directly.
So i will here.
1)I do beleive that intel by the U.S. indicated that there was wmd,Logan brought up a good point,That they may have been sold to other countrys,or they were diverted to diffrent locations to be held by countrys with like aggendas.(terrorist nations)But Intel is a tricky buisness,it changes constantly,what was there one day could be moved or hidden the next day.What i felt was sickening was Bush joking about it when none were found."oops,hehe,no wmd there,how bout under here,no,no wmd there...."That was B.S. it upset alot of people.Our guys are dying on the grounds that Iraq had wmd,even though they never found any amounts of them to warrant a war.I think they had them,but they got moved,mabey to Iran or Syria.
2)If you look at any war the U.S. has ever been in,you will always hear how we are trying to bring democracy to their poor communist,or fascist,or dictatorian country.
you heard it in WWII,you heard it in Korea,in Viet Nam,and in both gulf wars.
Was Democracy the main goal.No. It never is.(Although it is the usual side affect when we win)
3)I think that we are headed for war with Iran.I think they know better than to use a nuke on us.Although,i wouldnt put it past them if they have a draft plan for setting one off in a major U.S. city in a terrorist plot.That among terrorist would be the Holy Grail of all terror acts.
4)Bush and cheney say they are defending us against terror,but i do not feel safe,homeland security is a joke,and ill tell you why.If homeland security can't keep upwards of one million mexicans a year from jumping the U.S. Mexican boarder,how in the hell do they propose to keep terrorists out?Here we are talking about mexicans,but all u need is just one terrorist,with something biological or nuclear to slip through.Scarey.In my opinion our saftey is just a fairy tale.It all sounds good on paper,but its really nonexistant.Imagine suicide bombers in America.How is Bush or cheney defending me against that?Anyone with have a brain can make an I.E.D.(improvised explosive device)from things readily available to the public.Makes me sick.

[loganosborne]

Why do you think this? Didn't Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad specifically say that the solution to the mid-east problems was to "destroy Israel?"
He did I remember watching it on the T.V

[Nasik]

Thank you Freaked Out,That document was fascinating to read,great thread.Although, i did not answer your questions directly.
So i will here.
1)I do beleive that intel by the U.S. indicated that there was wmd,Logan brought up a good point,That they may have been sold to other countrys,or they were diverted to diffrent locations to be held by countrys with like aggendas.(terrorist nations)But Intel is a tricky buisness,it changes constantly,what was there one day could be moved or hidden the next day.What i felt was sickening was Bush joking about it when none were found."oops,hehe,no wmd there,how bout under here,no,no wmd there...."That was B.S. it upset alot of people.Our guys are dying on the grounds that Iraq had wmd,even though they never found any amounts of them to warrant a war.I think they had them,but they got moved,mabey to Iran or Syria.
2)If you look at any war the U.S. has ever been in,you will always hear how we are trying to bring democracy to their poor communist,or fascist,or dictatorian country.
you heard it in WWII,you heard it in Korea,in Viet Nam,and in both gulf wars.
Was Democracy the main goal.No. It never is.(Although it is the usual side affect when we win)
3)I think that we are headed for war with Iran.I think they know better than to use a nuke on us.Although,i wouldnt put it past them if they have a draft plan for setting one off in a major U.S. city in a terrorist plot.That among terrorist would be the Holy Grail of all terror acts.
4)Bush and cheney say they are defending us against terror,but i do not feel safe,homeland security is a joke,and ill tell you why.If homeland security can't keep upwards of one million mexicans a year from jumping the U.S. Mexican boarder,how in the hell do they propose to keep terrorists out?Here we are talking about mexicans,but all u need is just one terrorist,with something biological or nuclear to slip through.Scarey.In my opinion our saftey is just a fairy tale.It all sounds good on paper,but its really nonexistant.Imagine suicide bombers in America.How is Bush or cheney defending me against that?Anyone with have a brain can make an I.E.D.(improvised explosive device)from things readily available to the public.Makes me sick.

Thanks, I read this carefully. Another great post - and again, I agree with you. Good read.

[Nasik]

Not sure personally. America believed there was possibility they did. But there was no evidence either way.

It was one of many aims. Other aims include getting rid of their wapons of mass destruction and proberly oil.

How do you work out which ones are propaganda, semi truth or the actual truth. Also what evidence have you got mainstream media have secret agendas and how do you know that inderpendant media does not have secret agendas.
Yep I agree with that statement :2thumbs: .

Yep I agree with that how do we know that alternative media doesn't have secret agendas.

Any country thats anti-american will end up on that list. I was wondering how long it would be before Venezuela would be added after The Iranian president and Chavez seemed to get on like a house on fire.

Thanks Logan. AWESOME post. I agree with you 99% - 1% only do I diverge - I don't seriously believe WMD was ever a real aim, I believe it was manufactured as a pretext. Even if they had such WMD - there is no credible evidence to suggest that Iraq was suddenly preparing an armed attack on the US.

Also, from the research I've conducted, (a few books and articles), the Iraqis sadly, are worse off today than with Saddam - unbelievable given the bar was fairly low, but things are not working out there, everything is in chaos and its descending into civil war. They still don't have their utilities properly functioning from March 2003. I feel very bad for the soldiers and the Iraqis.

[Demonskates]

Thanks Logan. AWESOME post. I agree with you 99% - 1% only do I diverge - I don't seriously believe WMD was ever a real aim, I believe it was manufactured as a pretext. Even if they had such WMD - there is no credible evidence to suggest that Iraq was suddenly preparing an armed attack on the US.

Also, from the research I've conducted, (a few books and articles), the Iraqis sadly, are worse off today than with Saddam - unbelievable given the bar was fairly low, but things are not working out there, everything is in chaos and its descending into civil war. They still don't have their utilities properly functioning from March 2003. I feel very bad for the soldiers and the Iraqis.
Ive heard that 100 Iraqi's a day are dying in iraq due to the insurgancy.Those numbers are not acceptable.Most of those bastards arent even from Iraq,but unfortunately Iraq is the insurgents playground for now.LOL,you ever see the Staples commercials with the "easy button"?I bet bush wants one of those on his desk for Iraq right now.

[loganosborne]

Thanks Logan. AWESOME post. I agree with you 99% - 1% only do I diverge - I don't seriously believe WMD was ever a real aim, I believe it was manufactured as a pretext. Even if they had such WMD - there is no credible evidence to suggest that Iraq was suddenly preparing an armed attack on the US.

Also, from the research I've conducted, (a few books and articles), the Iraqis sadly, are worse off today than with Saddam - unbelievable given the bar was fairly low, but things are not working out there, everything is in chaos and its descending into civil war. They still don't have their utilities properly functioning from March 2003. I feel very bad for the soldiers and the Iraqis.
With the WMD thing im not sure personally when I mean there was no evidence either way I meant America proberly had no evidence. Thanks for saying it was an awesome post to.