My Take on 9/11

[sleepy2k16]

Please Read the rest of the story Below about 9/11 cover up:

More info goto http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html and my favorite: http://www.rense.com/general57/aale.htm

I am going to give reasons proving The U.S. Govt did it, how they did it, and at the end I am going to give reasons why they did it.

1. Operation Northwoods, "N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001 In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.":
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&pa...id=92662&page=1

2. Alex Jones Predicts Attack (Mentioned on FOX news): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8116395518760933323&q=alex+jones+predicts+attack&hl=en

3. God Help Us: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2024198565295094630&q=alex+jones+a+call+to+action&hl=en

4. At least 4 hijackers turned up alive, but i heard as many as 9

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

5. The melting Point of Steel is 3000F and Fire is around 500-700F with burning Jet fuel around 1200-1400F. Skeptics have claimed, Steel doesnt Have to melt, but only weaken to collpase, This May be true, HOWEVER, It would not make a 1/4 Mile High Skyscraper, Collapse in 9-10 Seconds.

6. An increase of 400% increase in put options on 9-6-01 and 9-7-01 on serveral airline stocks. An increase of 1100% Increase an in increase of put options on airline stocks on 9-10-01

7. FBI confinscated tapes at a nearby hotel and gas station minutes after the "plane" hit the pentagon.

8. Debris from the building was taken and illegally sold to china before anybody could really investigate.

9. If you watch the video of the towers coming down, You can notice bombs going off in the building.

10. Larry Silverstein Admitted blowing up WTC7 On a PBS Documentary. Skeptics Have Claimed He meant He was Pulling the Firefighters From the Building. Thats Funny, I thought When you call a person or persons "him" "them" or "em" not "it". Meanwhile The firefighters Were already Pulled from the Building 7 Houes before it Collpased. Skeptics Have Claimed, Well Maybe he did hit the Dynamite, But It takes severals weeks for them to carefully place explosives in a building. Call any Demolition Company.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=larry+silverstein+pull+it&hl=en

11. Larry Silverstein got High Insurance on WTC7 Including terrosm insurance.

12. 6 Months Before 9/11 They passed laws saying No pilots can carry guns, when pilots were allowed to carry guns for 40 years. (I am not sure this is 100% Accurate, I need to look into this more. Please Let me know if you find anything.)

13. As Charlie Sheen said, How can a plane make a 270 degree turn and drop 7000 feet in attitude in less then 2 minutes?

14. I heard it is impossible for cell phones to work on planes moving at 500mph and at 30000 Feet.

15. The "hijackers" said the wrong islamic message when approaching death. Who was

16. Survivors and Eye witnesses Reporting seeing, hearing explosions.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2032865563019209801&q=9+11+FIREFIGHTERS&hl=en Laugh at the Firefighters!!

17. Thermite was found at the scene. BYU Professor Steve E. Jones Have tested Postive some substance for Thermite, It was later Proven to cut the Main Pillars in the World Trade Center. It was the yellow goowy substance Dripping From the towers as CNN, FOX, Etc reported on 9/11/01.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635198488,00.html

18. Janitor was offered Millions of dallors to shut up and he refused, or so he said. See Video #6

19. Science Says Buildings Collasping CAN NOT fall at the speed of gravity unless Dynimite.

20. In the New American Century Dick Cheney Said We need a new Pearl Harbor. "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

21. Less then 15 Million Was spend Investigating 9-11 and more then 45 Million on Clintons Sex Life. (Appox)

22. How can a 757 That is 129' Wide Make a 16' Hole?

23. Between Both Engines on Flight 77 Or a 757, Its combined weight is 10-12 Tons. It is made of Steel And Titnium. Its melting Point is around 2600F. The Fire didnt get anywhre near that tempurature at the Pentagon. Yet No Engines Were Found.

24. You think fire can cause this?:

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20060820.htm

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/13/more_bone_fragments_found_near_wtc_site/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News

25. Bush say the First Plane hit the First Tower! LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F6kouXg40Q&mode=related&search

26. Jimmy Walter Is offering $100,000 To Anybody Who can Prove 9/11 Was NOT An Inside Job. Even PM Couldnt Stand Up.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41957

For more evidence watch these films:

1. http://www.loosechange911.com

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=loose+change&hl=en

2. 9/11 The Greatest Lie ever sold: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6952102263921897950&q=9%2F11+THE+GREATEST+LIE+EVER+SOLD&hl=en

3. 9/11 the Road to Tyranny: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6517776133137328105&q=9%2F11+the+Road+to+Tyranny&hl=en

4. Masters of Terror: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7752483415674202196&q=MASTERS+OF+TERROR

5. Martial Law: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6495462761605341661&q=MARTIAL+LAW+RISE+OF+POLICE+STATE

6. C-SPAN conference: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5004704309041471296&q=AMERICAN+C+SPAN

7. TerrorStorm: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&hl=en



Now I am going to give you why they did it, then i will share some links.

1. Patriot act

2. Patriot act 2

3. Eliminate the Consitution

4. Bring forth the NWO

5. Bankrupt the USA to bring forth a NWO

6. Scare americans to give up there right in exchange for "security" when you will just get tyranny and a police state.

7. Justify an Iraq War.

8. Bring forth a Real ID Act, which was passed on 5-11-05, and then the "mark of the beast"

9. To Pretty Much Allow Bush to do anything He wants. Look at this:

http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=504353

Now if you want links goto http://www.911blogger.com/ and check that out and there are 50 links on the right hand side.

Also check out http://www.infowars.com http://prisonplanet.com http://www.jonesreport.com

Last But not Least:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/911%20Cover-up/truth_about_911.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

Hitler Once Said, The Bigger the Lie, The easier it is Believed.

War on terror is a scam!!

"In January of 2003 FBI and CIA whistleblowers told Capitol Hill Blue that the White House was scripting phony terror alerts to maintain hysteria, upkeep President Bushs approval ratings and milk extra defense funding. The report that five Pakistani men had entered the States via Canada and were planning on carrying out a dirty bomb or biological attack was completely conjured up by the Bush administrations black propaganda office. New York Harbor was shut down to visibly pump up the fear. One of the named suspects, Mohammed Asghar (pictured left), was tracked down to Pakistan by the Associated Press. He was a fat guy running a jewellers shop and had never even been to America.

http://infowars.com/articles/sept11/red_alert_for_staged_terror_attack.htm

Thank You for reading, We must fight this and expose this and resist The New World Order, and Resist the cashless society.

[Justice]

not bad not bad at all but i don't think they want to bankcrupt america and it's more to do with making a grab for the oil, the oil the NWO wants to control and just look at what they are doing with the price of oil.

People seem to forget that the Bush's wealth came from Texas oil

Iran is bridge to far as Russia and China will not let mad dog bush grab that bit of oil and other countries are lining up to take america on at it's own game.

it would be better to be liberated by russia then america i thinks

[FireAnt]

5. The melting Point of Steel is 3000F and Fire is around 500-700F with burning Jet fuel around 1200-1400F

My first post :2thumbs:

Sorry I just had to point out that steel doesn't have to reach melting point to lose much of it's strength. The easiest example is a blacksmith can hammer steel when it has been heated in fire a lot easier than if it wasn't heated.

A lot of the other stuff is interesting though. I still haven't fully made up my mind whether the attacks were staged or not yet. I haven't found any definitive evidence supporting the conspiracy, but the information the US government has with held makes me cautious about completely trusting them either. :dunno:

[grendel 13]

[QUOTE=FireAnt]My first post :2thumbs:

Sorry I just had to point out that steel doesn't have to reach melting point to lose much of it's strength. The easiest example is a blacksmith can hammer steel when it has been heated in fire a lot easier than if it wasn't heated.[QUOTE]

i agree that heated steel loses some strength, however it has been reported that pools of melted steel where found in the debri, so if it wasn't the jet fuel that melted the steel than what did?

also welcome to AO.

[stewey]

If they wanted the Iraq war and planned 9/11, why not just say Iraq was behind it? Would've made more sense than attacking Iraq after saying Al Qaeda did it.

And I think melted steel can be from the collapse of the building. Collapse would create quite a bit of heat I would imagine. I am no expert here, but if I had to guess I would say that.

[kathaksung]

My first post :2thumbs:

Sorry I just had to point out that steel doesn't have to reach melting point to lose much of it's strength. The easiest example is a blacksmith can hammer steel when it has been heated in fire a lot easier than if it wasn't heated.

A lot of the other stuff is interesting though. I still haven't fully made up my mind whether the attacks were staged or not yet. I haven't found any definitive evidence supporting the conspiracy, but the information the US government has with held makes me cautious about completely trusting them either. :dunno:

There were two camp fires to boil the water. One is a wood burning fire with wood continually adding in. (normal fire ) After one hour, the water boiled.
The other one is a bowl of gas. After twenty minutes, the fire was off because there was no more burning material. After one hour, what do you think of the water? boiled or cooled?

[sleepy2k16]

[QUOTE=FireAnt]My first post :2thumbs:

Sorry I just had to point out that steel doesn't have to reach melting point to lose much of it's strength. The easiest example is a blacksmith can hammer steel when it has been heated in fire a lot easier than if it wasn't heated.[QUOTE]

i agree that heated steel loses some strength, however it has been reported that pools of melted steel where found in the debri, so if it wasn't the jet fuel that melted the steel than what did?

also welcome to AO.




Thermite, Did it....Steve Jones has been working on it...

[stewey]

Thermite, Did it....Steve Jones has been working on it...

Read this article (Assertion #5 in the article) http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC9-6-06.pdf. Pretty much debunks Steve Jones. Steve Jones isn't a doctoral either, although he is a professor (he is a nutjob though, check out his website: http://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/jones/rel491/handstext%20and%20figures.htm)

[Justice]

Steel is also very good at conducting heat away from the source !

Click Here (http://www.pentagonresearch.com/bob.html) to see some new footage of the pentagon attack

It was released by one of the first reporters on the scene and shows much that was for some untold reason was unable to be picked up the hundreds of CCTV’s placed around the pentagon.

The fires at the start seems so very small and then suddenly a shed or something like it goes up in flames and despite lots of water being poured on it, it fails to go out.

What do you guys think.

[kathaksung]

Sorry I just had to point out that steel doesn't have to reach melting point to lose much of it's strength. The easiest example is a blacksmith can hammer steel when it has been heated in fire a lot easier than if it wasn't heated.

Thermite, Did it....Steve Jones has been working on it...

To your logic, it should be: 40 minutes after the blacksmith took the steel out of the fire, it became a lot softer to handle. That's a great new law of physics.

It was a fire getting smaller and off. Unlike other fire which getting bigger and bigger because other burning material added in to help increasing fire (like a wooden house), the WTC fire got smaller and off when the fuel burned out. There was no additional burning material to join. Iron beam won't burn. So after ten to twenty minutes when the flame is off, the temperature should decrease. How could the building collapse one hour later?

There were two camp fires to boil the water. One was a wood burning fire with wood continually adding in. (normal fire ) One hour later, the water boiled.
The other one was a bowl of gas as burning material. After twenty minutes, the fire was off because there was no more burning material. one hour later, what do you think of the the water? boiled or cooled?

[Micahyah]

Five Years Later: The Official Story Falls Apart
State Department, media launch assault on 9/11 dissent
By Sander Hicks, New York Megaphone magazine, 9/11/2006
http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2558/Five_Years_Later_The_Official_Story_Falls_Apart


The government is getting desperate. Two major polls recently showed that a growing number of Americans doubt the official story around 9/11. On Aug. 28, the State Department responded with a direct assault against “misinformation,” by publishing a statement that attacked the fringes of the 9/11 Truth Movement. A major media brouhaha immediately followed. The New York Times published a sarcastic sniff at 9/11 activism, titled “U.S. Counters 9/11 Theories Of Conspiracy” on September 2. Time magazine ran a sympathetic but dismissive review of the popular 9/11 film “Loose Change.” ABC/Disney chimed in recently with a docu-drama based on the 9/11 Commission Report.

But not everyone is going along with the program. In New York City, the Sept. 1 edition of AM New York did a positive front-page overview of the 9/11 Truth Movement’s claims. In August, Seattle’s Post-Intelligencer did the same. Even the heads of the 9/11 Commission, widely criticized as too close to the government they were tasked to investigate, recently released a new book that admits they were pre-destined to fail. Popular Mechanics has turned their anti-conspiracy theory feature “9/11: Debunking the Myths” into a book. Five-time Emmy award winning journalist Peter Lance just wrote Triple Cross about the funky CIA connections of bin Laden’s right-hand man, Ali Mohamed. Triple was turned into a documentary at the National Geographic TV channel, but before it was broadcast Aug. 28, Lance removed his name from the film. “They hijacked my work,” he told reporters, “The feds have gotten to them, there is no doubt.”

Author Mike Ruppert has sold 30,000 copies of Crossing the Rubicon, a study of 9/11, but after his offices were repeatedly burglarized, he expatriated himself to Venezuela, swearing never to return to the U.S. On Aug. 16, the anti-Zionist, right-leaning journalist and 9/11 researcher Christopher Bollyn was arrested and bloodied by Chicago police, for asking them why three men in an unmarked car were monitoring his house. Bill O’Reilly bent to a new (and criminal) low this summer by making death threats against Kevin Barrett, professor and co-founder of 9/11 Scholars for Truth.

The censorship and the violence come from the same place: an intense desperation. America is out on a limb in Iraq. We are there, in part, in the name of an attack used to motivate us for war. But five years later, that attack gives people gnawing feelings of betrayal. America is writhing in the birth pangs of a new way to see itself. The State Department and media are holding their hands up in front of a tsunami. People are beginning to reject the deathly falsity of the war in Iraq and the “war on terror.” Who knows how this will translate in the mid-term elections, but pro-impeachment progressives and third party candidates stand to gain big.

A Zogby poll from this summer shows mainstream opinion 42 percent against the official story, claiming deliberate cover-up. Ten percent are undecided. According to a widely-cited August 14 poll by Ohio University and Scripps Howard News Service, 36 percent of Americans believe U.S. government officials “either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted to go to war in the Middle East.” Something is not right with 9/11. It was never right: from the president’s non-response on Sept. 11, 2001, to the GOP abuse of New York City for their convention, to the president’s recently announced plans to visit Ground Zero this Sept. 11, five years later.

When he arrives, he will meet the 9/11 Truth Movement. They are a nationwide batch of volunteers willing to risk their own skins to hunt down better explanations. The World Trade Center towers were symbolic of the grandeur, glory, and showmanship of New York and America. Their destruction, no matter who did it, was the biggest psychological blow to our collective psyche. Losing the towers shattered the anchor of the New York skyline. In the same way that no New Yorker can look at the city without seeing a gap, no American has been allowed to feel safe, secure, respected, or just, good and right, since. We have become torturers. We have become war-mongerers.

The undecided among us perhaps have not yet begun to recognize and heal the psychological trauma of 9/11. Instead, the media images have been burned into our brains, a reminder of the original experience. Last year, I toured the country speaking about 9/11. More often than not I met people who said things like, “you’re right, all you say, but I’m just not ready to go there yet.”

The facts are not enough. This is not just an intellectual struggle, last year, it became apparent something really deep is going on.

So, a year later, what changed? Katrina and the quagmire in Iraq have damaged the Bush team’s credibility beyond recognition. When people saw Bush letting black people die in New Orleans, on television, a lot of people did a gut check. And now that Team Bush won’t revise its Iraq strategy in light of the Pentagon’s own assessments, and instead starts implying that Iran or Syria is next, people are going, hold on a minute. Meanwhile, you’ve got technology like Google Video virally distributing films like “Loose Change II” into the hands of millions worldwide. You’ve got 9/11 truth activists, working in every major city in America. You’ve got new veterans from the financial and intelligence underworlds coming forth and saying, yeah, 9/11 was an inside job. Even former Bush official Morgan Reynolds and former Reagan official Paul Craig Roberts agree: 9/11 is a big lie. [...]

[kathaksung]

Green, Nass renew call to UW to fire 9/11 conspiracy professor

Associated Press

A Republican lawmaker and a gubernatorial candidate renewed their call Tuesday for the University of Wisconsin-Madison to fire a part-time instructor who believes the U.S. government orchestrated the 9/11 attacks.

The calls by GOP gubernatorial candidate Mark Green and Rep. Steve Nass of Whitewater came after they learned a UW-Madison academic unit was sponsoring a lecture on Sunday by Kevin Barrett titled "9/11: Folklore and Fact."

The event is tentatively scheduled from 2:30-4 p.m. Sunday in the Social Sciences Building, Room 6210.

Barrett said the British Broadcasting Corp. is expected to film the lecture as part of a story on those who share the view that U.S. government officials, not terrorists, were behind the attacks.


File photo
Part-time University of Wisconsin-Madison instructor Kevin Barrett
The UW-Madison folklore program is sponsoring the lecture. It will also feature 9/11 Truth leader James Fetzer, who has similar views as Barrett.

The university's decision to allow Barrett to teach a course this fall, "Islam: Religion and Culture," touched off a firestorm of controversy over the summer.

UW-Madison Provost Patrick Farrell decided to retain Barrett for the course after reviewing his plans and qualifications, but later warned him to stop seeking publicity for his personal political views.

"Rather than stick to their guns and fire Kevin Barrett for openly defying university policy again, the administrators at UW-Madison have, once again, refused to put a stop to this charade," Green said in a statement.

Farrell said Tuesday that it was appropriate for the folklore program to sponsor the lecture even though it will bring publicity to Barrett's views.

"My understanding is that he's followed the rules, got a sponsor and plans to present something that the department feels is appropriate," he said.

Students have so far enjoyed Barrett's class, Farrell added.

Barrett said his talk would focus on research into how folklore studies methodology can be applied to look at the movement of those who question the official version of the attacks.

Like other folk groups, the movement spreads its message creatively and makes a major distinction between insiders and outsiders, he said.

"What I'll be doing is purely academic and something people can appreciate regardless of their political persuasions," he said.

He said supporters of his views have raised $8,247 and plan to present it to the university during the lecture. That's the amount that Barrett is scheduled to earn this semester - and how much the Ozaukee County Board cut funding for UW-Extension to protest.

Farrell said he would tell them to give the money directly to UW-Extension or to the school's private foundation for student scholarships.

Published: September 27, 2006

[kathaksung]

Physicist's Letter On 911
PHYSICS To Rocky Mountain News
10-3-6

The following letter was sent by Eric Harrington, a physicist who lives in Ojai, CA, to Vincent Carroll at the Rocky Mountain News...

Dear Mr. Carrol,

I am responding to your article slandering the legitimate questions posed by numerous scientists, engineers, pilots, even international (often Republican) politicians regarding the flaws in the "official account" of 9/11.

"Let us dip our toe again into" a couple of the bogus rebuffs posed by the "experts" at Popular Mechanics.

Pop Mech- "As the fires blazed and the temperatures rose within the buildings, NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) believes, the remaining core columns (those not severed by the planes during impact) softened and buckled, transferring most of the load to the building's outer structural columns. The floors . . . began to sag from the heat, pulling those columns inward and adding to the burden on the outer columns."

Debunking: For anyone who as actually watched the WTC video's carefully, you will note that the south tower was struck near the corner, almost insuring it sustained NO damage to the central core columns. It also had by far the largest fireball produced, indicating a substantially larger portion of the fuel was burned in the initial impact and for the most part outside the building. Oddly, it was the south tower which fell first after burning for only 55 minutes, and at a point when the fires had greatly diminished.

In addition, as given by Kevin Ryan who was responsible for the thermal testing of the WTC Steel when it was certified, the samples tested for the WTC were certified to withstand a temperature of 2,000 deg for 6 hours without failing their rated load characteristics. And that is without insulation. The WTC beams were insulated. Jet fuel burns at only 1200-1300 degrees with an ideal oxygen mixture, something not indicated by the black smoke that issued from the fires. There was nothing contained within the buildings that could have raised this figure, and those that use the example of ancient furnaces that tempered steel as a argument, again, do not understand the principles involved. I suggest that if you want the truth, and wish to actually act like a journalist for a change, you broach this subject with a real expert, Mr. Ryan. I can put you in touch with him upon request.

But more important than the issue of the likelihood of the steel failure, is the FACT (not conjecture) that ALL THREE buildings collapsed into their own footprint at FREEFALL SPEED (i.e. the unimpeded acceleration of gravity). That means, drop a rock off the roof, at the moment of collapse, and the roof would hit the ground at the same time as the rock. This implies, (regardless of what happened at the fire zone) that the when the top section of the building began to fall it managed to plow through 70-80 odd floors of pristine and undamaged steel -- literally thousands of huge beams and concrete pads-- with absolutely NO RESISTANCE (i.e.. slowing of the rate of fall) WHATSOEVER. And this sir, is physically impossible and verging on the absurd, and I (a physicist), and anyone with a shred of knowledge of engineering, physics, or just plain common sense can understand that.

And there is a $1,000,000.00 cash challenge (to date unanswered) to anyone that can suggest a legitimate solution to this nagging little problem. And lastly, if the official pancake theory is correct, it lends no explanation whatsoever for why the central core of 47 HUGE beams, all connected together at numerous levels, would not be left standing like a spire as the floor connectors failed and the floors pancaked symmetrically around them. The less resistance to this collapse scenario exhibited by the building's design, the more likely the central core would remain virtually untouched. It is a paradox.

Watch the videos. Study the evidence. Talk to the experts and the scientists who simply can no longer tolerate an explanation so at odds with the physical evidence and the physical principles of the universe. And these experts I refer to are ready and willing to debate these issues with ANYONE you and your ilk choose, ANYTIME and ANYWHERE, as long as it can be videotaped for posterity.

I will not even get into the dozens of other patently absurd explanations that Popular Mechanics and other government shills and publicity hacks have posed to make the painfully obvious physical evidence at both the WTC and Pentagon fit the official fairy tale, while suppressing the numerous eyewitness accounts that disagree, but suffice to say that when "journalists" (and I use that term EXTREMELY loosely with you), continue to disparage those who simply demand the truth, and not propaganda; who examine the evidence with open minds and simply request that the investigation of this murder of 3,000 innocents be pursued with the same objectivity and forensic vigor that a common mugging would be given; they only contribute to the ignorance pervasive and growing in this country, reduce the once noble journalistic trade to nothing more than corporate propaganda machines, and deface the sacrifice of the 3000 who were murdered.

As for your contemptuous tone of which I have tried to mimic in this reply, to quote Shakespeare, "Me thinks thou dost protest too much."

Sincerely,

Eric Harrington
Ojai, Ca
http://rense.com/general73/phy.htm

[Cartesiantheater]

Iron beam won't burn.

I didn't read any of your post, but I did read this. This statement is UNTRUE. Iron burns all the time. That's what rust is. Oxidation. Also, liquid Iron burns. That's why molten iron being poured sparks. Iron is always oxidizing, so long as there is oxygen.

ps. I really don't care about the rest of this thread... just that part.

[Cartesiantheater]

Thermite, Did it....Steve Jones has been working on it...
I've already posted on this like thrice. The components Jones found, namely sulidified iron, could have formed quite naturally in the debris pile, because, contrary to what someone has said in this thread, iron has the remarkable trait of constantly oxidizing when there is oxygen and energy present. And oxidation leads to heat release, which inturn would catalyze iron and sulfur reactions, because in a rubble pile heat has difficulty escaping. Hence, reactions would speed up and the metal compounds would remain in liquid form.

Remember, there are so many types of iron oxide... FeO, Fe2O3, Fe3O4

This is because of iron's easy oxidation.

[stewey]

BUSH: So, what's the plan again?

CHENEY: Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we've decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they're real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we'll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down.

RUMSFELD: Right! And we'll make sure that some of the hijackers are agents of Saddam Hussein! That way we'll have no problem getting the public to buy the invasion.

CHENEY: No, Dick, we won't.

RUMSFELD: We won't?

CHENEY: No, that's too obvious. We'll make the hijackers Al Qaeda and then just imply a connection to Iraq.

RUMSFELD: But if we're just making up the whole thing, why not just put Saddam's fingerprints on the attack?

CHENEY: (sighing) It just has to be this way, Dick. Ups the ante, as it were. This way, we're not insulated if things go wrong in Iraq. Gives us incentive to get the invasion right the first time around.

BUSH: I'm a total idiot who can barely read, so I'll buy that. But I've got a question. Why do we need to crash planes into the Towers at all? Since everyone knows terrorists already tried to blow up that building complex from the ground up once, why don't we just blow it up like we plan to anyway, and blame the bombs on the terrorists?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, you don't understand. It's much better to sneak into the buildings ourselves in the days before the attacks, plant the bombs and then make it look like it was exploding planes that brought the buildings down. That way, we involve more people in the plot, stand a much greater chance of being exposed and needlessly complicate everything!

CHENEY: Of course, just toppling the Twin Towers will never be enough. No one would give us the war mandate we need if we just blow up the Towers. Clearly, we also need to shoot a missile at a small corner of the Pentagon to create a mightily underpublicized additional symbol of international terrorism -- and then, obviously, we need to fake a plane crash in the middle of farking nowhere in rural Pennsylvania.

RUMSFELD: Yeah, it goes without saying that the level of public outrage will not be sufficient without that crash in the middle of farking nowhere.

CHENEY: And the Pentagon crash -- we'll have to do it in broad daylight and say it was a plane, even though it'll really be a cruise missile.

BUSH: Wait, why do we have to use a missile?

CHENEY: Because it's much easier to shoot a missile and say it was a plane. It's not easy to steer a real passenger plane into the Pentagon. Planes are hard to come by.

BUSH: But aren't we using two planes for the Twin Towers?

CHENEY: Mr. President, you're missing the point. With the Pentagon, we use a missile, and say it was a plane.

BUSH: Right, but I'm saying, why don't we just use a plane and say it was a plane? We'll be doing that with the Twin Towers, right?

CHENEY: Right, but in this case, we use a missile. (Throws hands up in frustration) Don, can you help me out here?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, in Washington, we use a missile because it's sneakier that way. Using an actual plane would be too obvious, even though we'll be doing just that in New York.

BUSH: Oh, OK.

RUMSFELD: The other good thing about saying that it was a passenger jet is that that way, we have to invent a few hundred fictional victims and account for a nonexistent missing crew and plane. It's always better when you leave more cover story to invent, more legwork to do and more possible holes to investigate. Doubt, legwork and possible exposure -- you can't pull off any good conspiracy without them.

BUSH: You guys are brilliant! Because if there's one thing about Americans -- they won't let a president go to war without a damn good reason. How could we ever get the media, the corporate world and our military to endorse an invasion of a secular Iraqi state unless we faked an attack against New York at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals? Why, they'd never buy it. Look at how hard it was to get us into Vietnam, Iraq the last time, Kosovo?

CHENEY: Like pulling teeth!

RUMSFELD: Well, I'm sold on the idea. Let's call the Joint Chiefs, the FAA, the New York and Washington, D.C., fire departments, Rudy Giuliani, all three networks, the families of a thousand fictional airline victims, MI5, the FBI, FEMA, the NYPD, Larry Eagleburger, Osama bin Laden, Noam Chomsky and the fifty thousand other people we'll need to pull this off. There isn't a moment to lose!

BUSH: Don't forget to call all of those Wall Street hotshots who donated $100 million to our last campaign. They'll be thrilled to know that we'll be targeting them for execution as part of our thousand-tentacled modern-day bonehead Reichstag scheme! After all, if we're going to make martyrs -- why not make them out of our campaign paymasters? shiat, didn't the Merrill Lynch guys say they needed a refurbishing in their New York offices?

RUMSFELD: Oh, they'll get a refurbishing, all right. Just in time for the "Big Wedding"!

ALL THREE: (cackling) Mwah-hah-hah!

[Now]

BUSH: So what's the plan again?

CHENEY: Well, the Taliban has cut out the heroin production in Afghanistan, and we need that gas pipeline. Iraq has $17 trillion worth of oil, and if we're going to completely control the Middle East and protect Israel for the Zionists, we're going to have to take out Iran. We'll get either side of them and be able to squeeze them out. Then we'll control the major source of the earth's oil. We can set what ever price we want, and use $US as the exchange currency. That's the only way we will be able to dig ourselves out of the shit we're in.

BUSH: I don't understand

CHENEY: That's alright George, no-one expects you to. You just get up and make the speeches.

BUSH: So how do we do it?

CHENEY: Well, the American people are jaded and complacent. They feel so safe and secure in their two dimensional consumer illusion that they don't even realize we are in unpayable trade debt to China. We need to scare the living shit out of them, create a new enemy, because they're not scared of the Russians anymore. We need a new Pearl Harbor, and it needs to be as dramatic as possible, like a Hollywood movie, you know, like that "Independence Day." We know that when we scare the crap out of them, they huddle together in fear and are ready to attack whoever we tell 'em to. In one day, we'll get 'em to hate an entire race or religion. Since they don't really know anything other than what we tell them, they'll be ready to back us in whatever we choose to do. You know, like in Nazi Germany.

BUSH: Well, what if we just plant a few bombs like we did in Oklahoma City?

CHENEY: This is why we don't give you any real power George...you think too small. No, the American people will just go back to sleep. It needs to be spectacular, and terrifying. We need to make them feel like they are under attack.

WOLFOWITZ: Shalom. Larry Silverstein just called. The deal on the WTC just went through. He managed to pick it up by only spending $14 million of his own money. Got a 99 year lease! The Port Authority are so happy to get rid of those asbestos filled white elephants, they've been losing money hand over fist for years. Can't imagine why a crafty old fox like Silverstein would want to buy them, they're a liability. Mind you, if anything were to happen to them, like, you know, a terrorist attack, he'd score a bundle on the insurance claims, and then he could make a nice new urban redevelopment plan, maybe without the asbestos this time!

CHENEY: Oh yeah, sorry Paul, I meant to tell you about that. I've already talked to Larry. We're gonna drop 'em. Its gonna be a great show.

RUMSFELD: Where do you want me to put all these military explosives you guys ordered? Fuck, there's enough here to take down three buildings!

CHENEY: We've organized a power down at the WTC. There'll be no security in the buildings, I believe one of your family members has taken care of that George?

BUSH: Huh? I'm hungry...

CHENEY: Thanks for that George. Anyway, I've taken over the control of shoot down orders for NORAD, so they won't be able to spoil our little plan. Do we have the drones ready Donny?

RUMSFELD: They've been ready since the early 70's, Dick.

CHENEY: Excellent. Any news on Saddam?

RUMSFELD: Yeah, that prick. He promised me he wouldn't change the oil currency, but it looks like he's trading out the back door to Russia in Euro.

CHENEY: OK, we've gotta move fast. We're losing money everyday that the Taliban is cutting out our smack production, and now we're losing money on that exchange rate from Saddam. We should start complaining in the press about that shit that Saddam did to the Kurds 15 years ago, you know, make it sound like we suddenly give a fuck.

RUMSFELD: I'll give Rupert and the guys at GE a call. It'll be all over Fox and NBC tonight.

CHENEY: Make sure they don't mention that we sold the chemical weapons technology to Saddam, that won't look to good.

RUMSFELD: I'm on it, Dick.

CHENEY: So George, have you heard from Osama lately?

BUSH: Yeah, his cousin is playing golf with Jeb tomorrow.

CHENEY: So he's cool with the whole patsy thing?

BUSH: Sure, as long as we pretend we can't find him. So are we gonna blow up some stuff?

CHENEY: Yes, George.

GEORGE: Cool...can I watch?

CHENEY: Well, you can watch the replay, but we need you to pretend that you spend part of your day reading to school children, surrounded by people of various races and cultures, you know, a cross section of American culture. We need a photo op. Have you been practising your surprised but assured look?

BUSH: Yup....look...

CHENEY: OK George, you keep practising.

BUSH: Is it lunch time yet?



Now.

[Justice]

Now

Thats was so good i had to pass it around.

did you come up with it yourself

[Now]

Now

Thats was so good i had to pass it around.

did you come up with it yourself

Glad you enjoyed it Justice. Yes, it was my response to stewey's version of events.


Now.

[Smoke]

Took me a while to get through, but... i did and it was pretty damned good... latley ive been seeing so much more evidence on this whole subject, might have to get back in the game and start posting on it :)

[Cartesiantheater]

BUSH: So what's the plan again?
Now.
On one hand, it was a good move to respond to that other story with this one. But on the other hand, I am dissapointed. This one is not as condescending or as entertaining as the other one. I get the point, but still...

[stewey]

BUSH: So what's the plan again?

CHENEY: Well, the Taliban has cut out the heroin production in Afghanistan, and we need that gas pipeline. Iraq has $17 trillion worth of oil, and if we're going to completely control the Middle East and protect Israel for the Zionists, we're going to have to take out Iran. We'll get either side of them and be able to squeeze them out. Then we'll control the major source of the earth's oil. We can set what ever price we want, and use $US as the exchange currency. That's the only way we will be able to dig ourselves out of the shit we're in.

BUSH: I don't understand

CHENEY: That's alright George, no-one expects you to. You just get up and make the speeches.

BUSH: So how do we do it?

CHENEY: Well, the American people are jaded and complacent. They feel so safe and secure in their two dimensional consumer illusion that they don't even realize we are in unpayable trade debt to China. We need to scare the living shit out of them, create a new enemy, because they're not scared of the Russians anymore. We need a new Pearl Harbor, and it needs to be as dramatic as possible, like a Hollywood movie, you know, like that "Independence Day." We know that when we scare the crap out of them, they huddle together in fear and are ready to attack whoever we tell 'em to. In one day, we'll get 'em to hate an entire race or religion. Since they don't really know anything other than what we tell them, they'll be ready to back us in whatever we choose to do. You know, like in Nazi Germany.

BUSH: Well, what if we just plant a few bombs like we did in Oklahoma City?

CHENEY: This is why we don't give you any real power George...you think too small. No, the American people will just go back to sleep. It needs to be spectacular, and terrifying. We need to make them feel like they are under attack.

WOLFOWITZ: Shalom. Larry Silverstein just called. The deal on the WTC just went through. He managed to pick it up by only spending $14 million of his own money. Got a 99 year lease! The Port Authority are so happy to get rid of those asbestos filled white elephants, they've been losing money hand over fist for years. Can't imagine why a crafty old fox like Silverstein would want to buy them, they're a liability. Mind you, if anything were to happen to them, like, you know, a terrorist attack, he'd score a bundle on the insurance claims, and then he could make a nice new urban redevelopment plan, maybe without the asbestos this time!

CHENEY: Oh yeah, sorry Paul, I meant to tell you about that. I've already talked to Larry. We're gonna drop 'em. Its gonna be a great show.

RUMSFELD: Where do you want me to put all these military explosives you guys ordered? Fuck, there's enough here to take down three buildings!

CHENEY: We've organized a power down at the WTC. There'll be no security in the buildings, I believe one of your family members has taken care of that George?

BUSH: Huh? I'm hungry...

CHENEY: Thanks for that George. Anyway, I've taken over the control of shoot down orders for NORAD, so they won't be able to spoil our little plan. Do we have the drones ready Donny?

RUMSFELD: They've been ready since the early 70's, Dick.

CHENEY: Excellent. Any news on Saddam?

RUMSFELD: Yeah, that prick. He promised me he wouldn't change the oil currency, but it looks like he's trading out the back door to Russia in Euro.

CHENEY: OK, we've gotta move fast. We're losing money everyday that the Taliban is cutting out our smack production, and now we're losing money on that exchange rate from Saddam. We should start complaining in the press about that shit that Saddam did to the Kurds 15 years ago, you know, make it sound like we suddenly give a fuck.

RUMSFELD: I'll give Rupert and the guys at GE a call. It'll be all over Fox and NBC tonight.

CHENEY: Make sure they don't mention that we sold the chemical weapons technology to Saddam, that won't look to good.

RUMSFELD: I'm on it, Dick.

CHENEY: So George, have you heard from Osama lately?

BUSH: Yeah, his cousin is playing golf with Jeb tomorrow.

CHENEY: So he's cool with the whole patsy thing?

BUSH: Sure, as long as we pretend we can't find him. So are we gonna blow up some stuff?

CHENEY: Yes, George.

GEORGE: Cool...can I watch?

CHENEY: Well, you can watch the replay, but we need you to pretend that you spend part of your day reading to school children, surrounded by people of various races and cultures, you know, a cross section of American culture. We need a photo op. Have you been practising your surprised but assured look?

BUSH: Yup....look...

CHENEY: OK George, you keep practising.

BUSH: Is it lunch time yet?



Now.

Mine is funnier and makes more sense. Like why Iraq wasn't blamed for 9/11 and why they didn't send a plane into WTC 7. Plus the whole pipeline thing is way exagerated.

[Justice]

Mine is funnier and makes more sense. Like why Iraq wasn't blamed for 9/11 and why they didn't send a plane into WTC 7. Plus the whole pipeline thing is way exagerated.

yeah if you say so

but i need to keep typing else i can not post this message

[stewey]

yeah if you say so

but i need to keep typing else i can not post this message

The 30 character minimum.... Now theres a conspiracy!

[Now]

Mine is funnier and makes more sense. Like why Iraq wasn't blamed for 9/11 and why they didn't send a plane into WTC 7. Plus the whole pipeline thing is way exagerated.

Witty, coherent and humble...you must be quite a catch, stewey.


Now.

[stewey]

Witty, coherent and humble...you must be quite a catch, stewey.


Now.

Actually I didn't write the one I posted, RollingStones did.

[Now]

Mine is funnier and makes more sense.

Actually I didn't write the one I posted, RollingStones did.

That's kind of pathetic, don't you think stewey?


Now.

[Cartesiantheater]

That's kind of pathetic, don't you think stewey?


Now.
All that being said... was yours origional? If so, nice work!

[Now]

All that being said... was yours origional? If so, nice work!

Yes, 100% my own work, I wouldn't be criticizing stewey's plagiarism if it wasn't!


Now.

[General Seph]

If they wanted the Iraq war and planned 9/11, why not just say Iraq was behind it? Would've made more sense than attacking Iraq after saying Al Qaeda did it.

Have any of you seen Fahreheit 9/11 this explains most of it and that Bush was involved and how he came to power illegaly and what he did during 9/11. On 9/11 bush sat in a classroom reading a book while the planes crashed and he was told as well but carried on reading then he went to the white house and shook the bin ladens' hands then they were flown out in private jets the americans gave them. America wants oil so they attack iraq after blaming al queda this let them into afganistan so it was easier to attack iraq. As bush and his family helped to kill jews during ww2 i wont be surprised if he is making deals with bin laden and syria.

[Smoke]

what about this.. it turned from SAUDI Hijackers to sadam hussies with weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ, its its the insurgents wont stop so we are gonna stay....

i dont understand why SAUDI ARABIA isint being attacked since it was their hijackers... oh but wait, farenheit 911 whos hands was he shaking also, the saudi royals.

[Assassin X]

Has no heard the truth????

There were no jets slamming into buildings, there were no hijackers, there is no "plot".

Its very VERY simple and easy to believe. A bunch of scary aliens came from space with a mega-burritos and gave them to the mexicans and a few minutes before after eating them all at once they all let out a massive fart causing the earth to speed up nearly 4x faster! At that very moment in NY the planet spun so fast that two jets couldn't avoid hitting the twin towers! Same thing happened to the one at the pentagon, except the pilot got dizzy because stuff was moving fast. And as for the last jet a flying rock from the fast moving earth hit the jet causing it to go down!

See, now doesn't that make ALOT more sense then the silly stuff you all talk about. :nudge:

[kathaksung]

Why there was no fighter to intercept the hijacked plane on 911?

Quote, "CENTCOM Sergeant Details Traitorous Stand Down Orders On 9/11
Military whistleblower comes forward with key information
Steve Watson / Infowars | September 26 2006

Alex Jones was joined on air yesterday by a former Sergeant in the United States Army named Lauro "LJ" Chavez. Chavez was stationed at MacDill AFB where he claims he witnessed unusual preparations for a potential airplane hitting the base on the morning of 9/11 and distinctly heard officers talking about a stand down. This has led him to go public in questioning the NORAD stand down and the demolition of the twin towers.

Chavez proceeded to detail the key discussions that he heard inside the bunker on the day of 9/11:

"I didn't get to see tower one hit, I was in there talking with individuals and i was tired, I'd been there since four in the morning. Then all of a sudden everybody started hustling and bustling. it was like NASA when Apollo 13 was about to crash, everybody running around, and then they put it on the big screen, CNN with the tower on fire.

Then we see the other plane come in and hit it and at that point everybody is standing up. The air force had commanders in contact with NORAD. The plane, or whatever, hit the Pentagon and then we were like 'Why aren't they scrambling jets?' We were asking, there was eight or nine people... Colonels and Lieutenant Colonels asking the Lieutenant Colonel in charge of the air force 'why isn't NORAD scrambling jets? and he said 'we received an order to stand down''. And that just perplexed everybody."

Mr Chavez did not know the Lieutenant Colonel and so does not know his name, yet if he can be identified, then we have uncovered a direct link to the stand down order. If that man or any others who were present at CENTCOM on 9/11 can be identified and made to testify under oath, then the whole cover operation could be blown. A real independent investigation would have secured this.

The entire riveting interview is freely available online at Prisonplanet.tv now. Please spread this information far and wide.

Mr Chavez has since been informed that the computer company he now works for, as information security manager, has been receiving threatening phone calls demanding his dismissal. Mr Chavez is another example of someone who is bravely putting his career, reputation and life on the line to get the truth out about the 9/11 cover up.

http://infowars.net/articles/September2006/260906Chavez.htm

I think the above information is truth. Because I was blocked to post it in some other sites. My stituation is a special. I am monitored by a surveillance team with a server. This information was blocked before I could send it out. A direct censorship from the agent. If they are so sensitive on this one, then it is truth. They are afraid of it.

[Cartesiantheater]

Some of you guys would do well to look at the OPPOSING VIEW SITES, so as to not post things that have been shown to be ridiculous.

Stephen Jones, one of the scientists who SUPPORTS a version of the conspiracy theory, has said that he wished some of the other conspiracy theorists would educate themselves and not post some of the ridiculous stuff, as it makes ALL the conspiracy theorists look ridiculous...in addition, rest assured, Fahrenheit 911 is FUCKING OBVIOUSLY NOT an UNBIASED source... (I'm not angry; the "fucking" was just an adjective to show how very very very very obvious it is that the film's makers are NOT interested in objective truth as much as they are interested in politics...there is NO subtle manipulation about it... it is flagrantly manipulative and misleading...which should raise some flags, I'd imagine...)

[Justice]

Cartesiantheater

Are you saying that nothing was true that was covered in Fahrenheit 911

Yes it was a bit bias but that does not make it all a pack of lies and it's much much close to the truth then the offical story.

week by week our numbers grow and that must tell you something

[Cartesiantheater]

Cartesiantheater

Are you saying that nothing was true that was covered in Fahrenheit 911

Yes it was a bit bias but that does not make it all a pack of lies and it's much much close to the truth then the offical story.

Remember, I'm not a supporter of the official story... I'm a supporter of the opinions of peer-reviewed scientific journals, and the like. Why? Because I feel that they are far less likely to be dishonest than both the Government and the 9/11 sites/films.
And at this point, the peer-reviewed scientific journals do not support the conspiracy theories. When there is enough evidence to warrant them supporting the CT's, then they will support them. And then I will flip sides. However, I doubt that will happen... but if it does, I'll crossover...

btw, the reason I DON'T join you guys despite the likes of Professor Jones is that his work HAS NOT been subjected to and survived the correct avenue of peer review. His work was reviewed by a Social Science group, NOT a physics or engineering group, to the best of my knowledge. When the scientific journals start supporting the CT's, it will be because they have passed THE VERY TOUGHEST scrutiny by the best minds on Earth... and that will be reason for me to join you guys.


week by week our numbers grow and that must tell you something It tells me that people behave like lemmings, and that favorable ideas spread like wildfire... and people without power tend to demonize those with power, perhaps because they feel helpless, or perhaps for religious reasons (think, End Time Prophesy and such...)...
...But above all it tells me that conspiracy theorists are very good at persuasion, and the general population is very good at being persuaded...

[kathaksung]

Fortune made from WTC collapsing

Larry "Lucky Larry" Silverstein
by 911 inside job
Thursday Sep 7th, 2006 10:07 AM

"You've got to be lucky to make $4 Billion killing on a 6-month investment
Of $124 Million

Larry Silverstein is the New York property tycoon who purchased the entire World Trade Centre complex just 6 months prior to the 9/11 attacks. That Was the first time in its 33-year history the complex had ever changed ownership.

Mr. Silverstein's first order of business as the new owner was to change The company responsible for the security of the complex. The new security
company he hired was Securacom (now Stratasec). George W. Bush's brother, Marvin Bush, was on its board of directors, and Marvin's cousin, Wirt
Walker III, was its CEO. According to public records, not only did Securacom provide electronic security for the World Trade Center, it also covered Dulles International Airport and United Airlines - two key players in the 9/11 attacks.

The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for many years to the Bush family. KuwAm has been linked to the
Bush family financially since the Gulf War. One of its principals and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud al Sabah, served on the board of Stratesec.

Now, consider: The members of a small cabal owned the WTC complex, controlled its electronic security, and also controlled the security not
only for one of the airlines whose aircraft were hijacked on 9/11, but the airport from which they originated.

Another little "coincidence" -- Mr. Silverstein, who made a down-payment of $124 million on this $3.2 billion complex, promptly insured it for $7
Billion. Not only that, he covered the complex against "terrorist attacks".

Following the attacks, Silverstein filed two insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy ($7B), based on the two -- in Silverstein's
view -- separate attacks. The insurance company, Swiss Re, paid Mr. Silverstein $4.6 Billion - a princely return on a relatively paltry
investment of $124 million.

There's more. You see, the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe. From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception by the NY Port Authority -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the
rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace. How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?

The towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built. It was
well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell.

For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an ageing dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due to the known asbestos problem.
Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to dissemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing
the buildings.

The projected cost to disassemble the towers: $15 Billion. Just the scaffolding for the operation was estimated at $2.4 Billion!

In other words, the Twin Towers were condemned structures. How convenient that an unexpected "terrorist" attack demolished the buildings completely.

WTC Building 7 was a part of the WTC complex, and covered under the same insurance policy. This 47-storey steel-framed structure, which was NOT
struck by an aircraft, mysteriously collapsed 8 hours later that same day into its own footprint at freefall speed - exactly in the manner of the
Twin Towers.

How could this have happened? Mr. Silverstein gave the world the answer when he slipped up during a PBS television interview a year later, on 9/11/2002:

"I remember getting a call from the...er...fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the
fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

As anyone who knows anything about construction can tell you, "Pull" is common industry jargon for a controlled demolition.

One thing is for sure, the decision to 'pull' WTC 7 would have delighted many people. Especially because it has been reported that thousands of
sensitive files relating to some of the biggest financial scams in history - including Enron and WorldCom -- were stored in the offices of some of the building's tenants:

US Secret Service
NSA
CIA
IRS
BATF
SEC
NAIC Securities
Salomon Smith Barney
American Express Bank International
Standard Chartered Bank
Provident Financial Management
ITT Hartford Insurance Group
Federal Home Loan Bank

The Securities and Exchange Commission has not quantified the number of active cases in which substantial files were destroyed by the collapse of WTC 7. Reuters news service and the Los Angeles Times published reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. They include the agency's major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom. ..."Ongoing investigations at the New York SEC will be dramatically affected because so much of their
work is paper-intensive," said Max Berger of New York's Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann. "This is a disaster for these cases."

Citigroup says some information that the committee is seeking [about WorldCom] was destroyed in the Sept. 11 terror attack on the World Trade Center. Salomon had offices in 7 World Trade Center. The bank says that
back-up tapes of corporate emails from September 1998 through December 2000 were stored at the building and destroyed in the attack.

Inside WTC 7 was the US Secret Service's largest field office with more than 200 employees. "All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building," according to US Secret Service Special Agent David Curran.

What a neat, complete, and fortuitous turn of events was 9/11.

Incidentally, it's worth noting that one of Lucky Larry's closest friends - a person with whom it's said he speaks almost daily by phone - is none other than former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

More on that cozy little relationship later...

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/09/07/18306895.php

[kathaksung]

There are many pictures in this site to compare the explosion of WTC and military test. Worth having a look.

Quote, "View of a Military Expert: Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed

The airplanes did not a have true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of crushing Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's.

Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for 102 minutes and WTC 2 for 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly increase the burning temperature down to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F). Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/finn/5/soldier5.htm

[kathaksung]

Quote: ISRAELIS FOREWARNED

On September 12, 2001, the Internet edition of The Jerusalem Post reported, "The Israeli foreign ministry has collected the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack."

Yet only one Israeli was killed at the WTC and two were reportedly killed on the "hijacked" aircraft.

Although a total of three Israeli lives were reportedly lost on 9/11, speechwriters for President George W. Bush grossly inflated the number of Israeli dead to 130 in the president's address to a joint session of Congress on September 20, 2001.

The fact that only one Israeli died at the WTC, while 4,000 Israelis were thought to have been at the scene of the attacks on 9/11 naturally led to a widespread rumor, blamed on Arabic sources, that Israelis had been forewarned to stay away that day.

"Whether this story was the origin of the rumor," Bret Stephens, the Post's editor-in-chief wrote in 2003, "I cannot say. What I can say is that there was no mistake in our reporting."

ODIGO INSTANT MESSAGES

Evidence that Israelis had been forewarned several hours before the attacks surfaced at an Israeli instant messaging service, known as Odigo. This story, clear evidence of Israeli prior knowledge, was reported only briefly in the U.S. media – and quickly forgotten.

At least two Israel-based employees of Odigo received warnings of an imminent attack in New York City more than two hours before the first plane hit the WTC. Odigo had its U.S. headquarters two blocks from the WTC. The Odigo employees, however, did not pass the warning on to the authorities in New York City, a move that could have saved thousands of lives.

Odigo has a feature called People Finder that allows users to seek out and contact others based on certain demographics, such as Israeli nationality.

Two weeks after 9/11, Alex Diamandis, Odigo's vice president, reportedly said, "It was possible that the attack warning was broadcast to other Odigo members, but the company has not received reports of other recipients of the message."

The Internet address of the sender was given to the FBI, and two months later it was reported that the FBI was still investigating the matter. There have been no media reports since.

Odigo, like many Israeli software companies, is based and has its Research and Development (R&D) center in Herzliya, Israel, the small town north of Tel Aviv, which happens to be where Mossad's headquarters are located.

[Justice]

Has no heard the truth????

There were no jets slamming into buildings, there were no hijackers, there is no "plot".

Its very VERY simple and easy to believe. A bunch of scary aliens came from space with a mega-burritos and gave them to the mexicans and a few minutes before after eating them all at once they all let out a massive fart causing the earth to speed up nearly 4x faster! At that very moment in NY the planet spun so fast that two jets couldn't avoid hitting the twin towers! Same thing happened to the one at the pentagon, except the pilot got dizzy because stuff was moving fast. And as for the last jet a flying rock from the fast moving earth hit the jet causing it to go down!

See, now doesn't that make ALOT more sense then the silly stuff you all talk about. :nudge:

You are shooting the messenger because you can not deal with the message.

Maybe you would like to talk about holograms being used instead of real planes but the fact still remains that no steel structured building had ever succumb to fire before 9/11 and kerosene can not melt steel

[Cartesiantheater]

You are shooting the messenger because you can not deal with the message.

Maybe you would like to talk about holograms being used instead of real planes but the fact still remains that no steel structured building had ever succumb to fire before 9/11 and kerosene can not melt steel
Could you guys please stop with the deception? There's NO reason to assume that the molten metal falling from the buildings MUST have been molten steel, seeing as how it did NOT exhibit all of the charactoristics (As I have pointed out SEVERAL times here with information from various NON 911 sources).

The molten iron found at ground zero could have gotten there simply by simmering in the rubble. I've already explained how this could happen three or four times.

The point is, if there is more than one explanation that fits what was observed, than niether can be considered fact. I would take you twice as seriously if you guys would quite with the horrible logic of just ignoring alternative explanations given by reputable scientific sources simply because they do not agree with you (and hence, they must be lying or are being threatened...). If you'd at least admit that they are possible, even THAT might satisfy me... good Christ... all I'm asking for is a little intellectual honesty and personal skepticism... question what YOU think... not just what others (Gov. in this example...) are trying to convince you of... question YOURSELF TOO!...

Ask yourself WHY you take what Prof. Jones says as gospel, but you reject what MIT says here (http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/PDFfiles/Chapter%20V%20Fire.pdf) and here (http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/) in these papers... why is MIT suddenly lying or mistaken, whilst Prof. Jones is speaking the truth or is beyond making mistakes?...why?...

I just don't understand this...that's why I'm all about peer review... MANY PEOPLE collaborating on a theory... and MANY people scrutinizing it... and considering there is still so much being discussed... I just don't get it...

[grendel 13]

well as i've said before, why the hell are people still trying to "prove" the gov. did it? it's never going to happen. and besides what are people hoping to get out of it? some arrests, maybe an impeachment? well f*ck the conspiracies, just look at the evidence the gov. is releasing, they completely failed at their job to protect american lives. also by failing to catch osama( we had the perfect oppurtunity) the gov. keeps us in a state of danger. i know that if i did as poorly at my job as these guys i would be fired in a second, clinton lied about getting a BJ and he gets impeached, bush lies about iraq and he gets what? nothing. if people let go of the conspiracies and put some effort into holding this gov. accountable for it's lack of action and it's subsequent overeaction on iraq, maybe than bush and co. would face justice.

[Cartesiantheater]

well as i've said before, why the hell are people still trying to "prove" the gov. did it? it's never going to happen. and besides what are people hoping to get out of it? some arrests, maybe an impeachment? well f*ck the conspiracies, just look at the evidence the gov. is releasing, they completely failed at their job to protect american lives. also by failing to catch osama( we had the perfect oppurtunity) the gov. keeps us in a state of danger. i know that if i did as poorly at my job as these guys i would be fired in a second, clinton lied about getting a BJ and he gets impeached, bush lies about iraq and he gets what? nothing. if people let go of the conspiracies and put some effort into holding this gov. accountable for it's lack of action and it's subsequent overeaction on iraq, maybe than bush and co. would face justice.
Oh, I definately agree with this. I'm not even above accepting the POSSIBILITY that the US Gov. was involved in some way (hell, I did a poll at my school for psychology, asking people with POST-GRADUATE degrees, and one or two of them believed some of the CT... but religious people do not take heart- only ONE professor did not believe in evolution...)

I'm just bitching about people claiming things as "fact" or saying that "Science" says such and such, even though the majority of the scientific comunity does NOT say what the CT people claim...

[TC]

Interesting thought by kathaksung about the estimated cost to demolish the buildings. This whole story just gets better and better.

[Smoke]

kathak i like it when you post this stuff more than the government chasing you. Heh,

[stewey]

kathak i like it when you post this stuff more than the government chasing you. Heh,

If the government was chasing him, as soon as he posted, hed be caught :bondage:

[kathaksung]

About melt steel:

Quote, "UL Says NO WAY WTC Steel Could Melt At 2000 F UL Executive Speaks Out On WTC Study
911Truth.org
11-14-4

"The buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel."

From Kevin R. Ryan
Site Manager of the Environmental Health Laboratories
South Bend, Indiana
(Company site - www.ehl.cc) <http://www.ehl.cc)>

A division of Underwriters Laboratories, Inc.
(Company site - www.ul.com) <http://www.ul.com)>

To Frank Gayle
Deputy Chief of the Metallurgy Division
Material Science and Engineering Laboratory
National Institute of Standards and Technology
NIST and the World Trade Center at wtc.nist.gov
Dr. Gayle biography wtc.nist.gov/pi/wtc_profiles.asp?lastname=gayle

From: Kevin R Ryan/SBN/ULI
To: frank.gayle@nist.gov <mailto:frank.gayle@nist.gov>
Date: 11/11/2004

Dr. Gayle,

Having recently reviewed your team's report of 10/19/04, I felt the need to contact you directly.

As I'm sure you know, the company I work for certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. In requesting information from both our CEO and Fire Protection business manager last year, I learned that they did not agree on the essential aspects of the story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all requirements. They suggested we all be patient and understand that UL was working with your team, and that tests would continue through this year. I'm aware of UL's attempts to help, including performing tests on models of the floor assemblies. But the results of these tests appear to indicate that the buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel.

There continues to be a number of "experts" making public claims about how the WTC buildings fell. One such person, Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC construction crew, claims that the buildings collapsed due to fires at 2000F melting the steel (1). He states "What caused the building to collapse is the airplane fuel ? burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The steel in that five-floor area melts." Additionally, the newspaper that quotes him says "Just-released preliminary findings from a National Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center collapse support Brown's theory."

We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all.

The results of your recently published metallurgical tests seem to clear things up (3), and support your team's August 2003 update as detailed by the Associated Press (4), in which you were ready to "rule out weak steel as a contributing factor in the collapse". The evaluation of paint deformation and spheroidization seem very straightforward, and you noted that the samples available were adequate for the investigation. Your comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 500F (250C), which is what one might expect from a thermodynamic analysis of the situation.

However the summary of the new NIST report seems to ignore your findings, as it suggests that these low temperatures caused exposed bits of the building's steel core to "soften and buckle"(5). Additionally this summary states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make clear that "most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above 250C". To soften steel for the purposes of forging, normally temperatures need to be above 1100C (6). However, this new summary report suggests that much lower temperatures were be able to not only soften the steel in a matter of minutes, but lead to rapid structural collapse.

This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I?m sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans. Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company.

There is no question that the events of 9/11 are the emotional driving force behind the War on Terror. And the issue of the WTC collapse is at the crux of the story of 9/11. My feeling is that your metallurgical tests are at the crux of the crux of the crux. Either you can make sense of what really happened to those buildings, and communicate this quickly, or we all face the same destruction and despair that come from global decisions based on disinformation and "chatter".

Thanks for your efforts to determine what happened on that day. You may know that there are a number of other current and former government employees that have risked a great deal to help us to know the truth. I've copied one of these people on this message as a sign of respect and support. I believe your work could also be a nucleus of fact around which the truth, and thereby global peace and justice, can grow again. Please do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel.

1. <http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive/102104/coverstory.html>

2. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 61st edition, pg D-187

3. <http://wtc.nist.gov/media/P3MechanicalandMetAnalysisofSteel.pdf>

4. <http://www.voicesofsept11.org/archive/911ic/082703.php>

5. <http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACWTCStatusFINAL101904WEB2.pdf> (pg 11)

6. <http://www.forging.org/FIERF/pdf/ffaaMacSleyne.pdf>

Kevin Ryan
Site Manager
Environmental Health Laboratories

[Note: The letter is followed in the e-mail by a standard UL message footer]

-- For more information about UL, its Marks, and its services for EMC, quality registrations and product certifications for global markets, please access our web sites at <http://www.ul.com> and <http://www.ulc.ca,> or contact your local sales representative.

[Cartesiantheater]

There is no proof whatsoever that there was EVER melted steel inside the towers before collapse. The molten metal observed doesn't even have all the charactoristics of molten steel- in fact, it looks more like molten alluminum, IMO, which would make sense considering that the metal is oozing form near the place of impact... (note that it is not wildly sparking like one would expect if it were an iron compound being poured...)

It could be an iron compound... but it probably isn't...

As for the molten metal found at ground zero, there is no requirement at all that the iron was melted before collapse. In fact, it is quite possible that the iron could have melted while simmering in the rubble piles... why is this so often overlooked by 911 "truth" seekers? (by "truth" seekers of course, I mean "epic villain" seekers...anything to escape life's mundanity (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mundanity)...but then, I could be wrong...)

[kathaksung]

Pre-9/11 Put Options on Companies Hurt by Attack Indicates Foreknowledge

Financial transactions in the days before the attack suggest that certain individuals used foreknowledge of the attack to reap huge profits. 1 Â The evidence of insider trading includes:
Huge surges in purchases of put options on stocks of the two airlines used in the attack -- United Airlines and American Airlines
Surges in purchases of put options on stocks of reinsurance companies expected to pay out billions to cover losses from the attack -- Munich Re and the AXA Group
Surges in purchases of put options on stocks of financial services companies hurt by the attack -- Merrill Lynch & Co., and Morgan Stanley and Bank of America
Huge surge in purchases of call options of stock of a weapons manufacturer expected to gain from the attack -- Raytheon
Huge surges in purchases of 5-Year US Treasury Notes


http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html

There is a graph there to help you understand more clearly.

[kathaksung]

A former Boston Center air traffic controller has gone public on his assertion that 9/11 was an inside job and that Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon tracked three of the four flights from the point of their hijacking to hitting their targets. In an astounding telephone interview, Robin Hordon claims air traffic controllers have been ignored or silenced to protect the true perpetrators of 9/11.

A recording of the phone conversation was posted on Google video late yesterday by the Pilots For 9/11 Truth organization.

Hordon said that from personal experience he knew the system was always ready to immediately scramble intercepting fighters and that any reversal of that procedure would have been unprecedented and abnormal. He had also personally handled both real hijacking situations in his airspace and other emergency procedures.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250&q=9%2F11%3A+Press+for+Truth&hl=en

[metatron]

One thing about 9/11 is this......

NORAD.

NORAD can track every single plane in the air over U.S. airspace. Even with the transponders turned off. Even if it took 15 minutes for them to realize one plane after another was turning off course, severly, Why did they not contact edwards air force base to send intercetor's? The airforce base in Maryland can have a plane over New York in a matter of minutes. Why didn't this happen?

A couple years ago Pyne Stewart was flying his lear jet over Texas. He had a heart attack and died in the cockpit. Within about 5 minutes, NORAD noticed the discrepency(of him flying off course) and tried radio contact. When this failed, they scrambled two jets to intercept and see what the problem was. They realized Mr. Stewart was hunched over the controls and new something was wrong. The lear finally crached.

NORAD followed protocal for airial problems on this one. So why didn't they follow them on 9/11?

And this is just New York. Even when the one plane came into the restricted airspace of the Pentagon? Our nations command center for our entire military forces? The joint cheifs offices, Rumsfeld's office? Come on, the air force and Norad both would be all over that one!!

9/11 was allowed to happen. That's the only possible answer for me.
Did you know that an FBI suspect list was released for the identities of the 13 or so hijackers? It was shown that 9 of them were still alive after the attacks. So middle eastern people are immune to death? Or at least flying a passanger jet into a building.....

Most of my references come from books, However the book I refer to most on 9/11 is called "Alice in wonderland and the World trade center Disaster: why the official story of 9/11 is a monumental lie" By David Icke.
If you are really curious, you can go to Mr. Ickes web page and read through the pages of archives he has posted on the subject. Norad is just one interesting aspect of the story......

[grendel 13]

One thing about 9/11 is this......

NORAD.

NORAD can track every single plane in the air over U.S. airspace. Even with the transponders turned off. Even if it took 15 minutes for them to realize one plane after another was turning off course, severly, Why did they not contact edwards air force base to send intercetor's? The airforce base in Maryland can have a plane over New York in a matter of minutes. Why didn't this happen?

A couple years ago Pyne Stewart was flying his lear jet over Texas. He had a heart attack and died in the cockpit. Within about 5 minutes, NORAD noticed the discrepency(of him flying off course) and tried radio contact. When this failed, they scrambled two jets to intercept and see what the problem was. They realized Mr. Stewart was hunched over the controls and new something was wrong. The lear finally crached.

NORAD followed protocal for airial problems on this one. So why didn't they follow them on 9/11?

And this is just New York. Even when the one plane came into the restricted airspace of the Pentagon? Our nations command center for our entire military forces? The joint cheifs offices, Rumsfeld's office? Come on, the air force and Norad both would be all over that one!!

9/11 was allowed to happen. That's the only possible answer for me.
Did you know that an FBI suspect list was released for the identities of the 13 or so hijackers? It was shown that 9 of them were still alive after the attacks. So middle eastern people are immune to death? Or at least flying a passanger jet into a building.....

Most of my references come from books, However the book I refer to most on 9/11 is called "Alice in wonderland and the World trade center Disaster: why the official story of 9/11 is a monumental lie" By David Icke.
If you are really curious, you can go to Mr. Ickes web page and read through the pages of archives he has posted on the subject. Norad is just one interesting aspect of the story......


and you do know that mr icke believes it is the reptilians that are doing all this, right? so i want to know how that fits in to your religious beliefes, i mean how can the bible be right yet mr icke be right about space lizards?

the gov. seriously screwed up on 9 eleven and several people should have been brought to trial, impeached and so on, but as far as a complete conspiracy? i don't think so, david icke has issues.

[kathaksung]

FIRE OFFICER SAYS FIREMEN, COPS KNOW TRUTH
By Victor Thorn
American Free Press
November 11, 2006
'BOMBS INSIDE WTC'
NEW YORK CITY, N.Y.—On the morning of Sept. 11, 2005, New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac Jr. asserted, yet again, that 9-11 was an inside job. "I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it's an inside job; and the firemen know it too," said Isaac.
The ramifications of this statement are immense: One of New York's own firefighters says publicly that 9-11 couldn't have been the work of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, but instead was planned, coordinated and executed by elements within our own government.
He also added, after pointing to throngs of police officers standing around us, that, "We all have to be very careful about how we handle it."
Isaac reiterated what a 9-11 survivor told this journalist during our protest at Ground Zero on Sept. 11, 2005—that emergency radios were buzzing with information about bombs being detonated inside the World Trade
Center towers.
Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York.
"It's amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs," said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9-11. There is more information related to Isaac circulating in on-line and print reports, so here again we are hearing first-hand evidence from individuals who were on the scene, such as live witness William Rodriguez, saying that the World Trade Center towers were brought down not by the airliner's impact or the resulting jet fuel fires, but instead by a deliberately executed controlled demolition.
Tragically, due to heavy-handed pressure from officials at the city, state and federal levels, we are still not hearing the entire story.
Researcher Vincent Sammartino, who was also at the WTC "open grave site" on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2005, wrote the following on the on-line news web site APFN: "I just got back from Ground Zero. People know the truth. Half of the police and firemen were coming up to us and telling us that they know that 9-11 was an inside job. They were told not to talk about it. But they were supporting what we were doing. I had tears in my eyes."


Victor Thorn is the author of New World Order Exposed, and co-host of WING TV. For more information, visit Thorn's web site at wingtv.net or write P.O. Box 10495, State College, PA 16805-0495. New World Order Exposed (#1080, $25, 560 pps., softcover) and 9-11 On Trial (#1178, 175 pages, $14, booklet) can be ordered from FIRST AMENDMENT BOOKS. Write 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100, Washington, D.C. 20003. Call toll free 1-888-699-NEWS (6397) to order by Visa or MasterCard.
(Issue #40, October 3, 2005)

Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C. 20003
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/bombs_inside_wtc.html

[kathaksung]

September 4, 2001: Israeli Company Moves Out of WTC

The Zim-American Israeli Shipping Co. moves their North American headquarters from the 16th floor of the WTC to Norfolk, Virginia, one week before the 9/11 attacks. The Israeli government owns 49 percent of the company. [Virginian-Pilot, 9/4/2001] Zim announced the move and its date six months earlier. [Virginian-Pilot, 4/3/2001] More than 200 workers had just been moved out; about ten are still in the building making final moving arrangements on 9/11, but escape. [Jerusalem Post, 9/13/2001; Journal of Commerce, 10/18/2001] The move leaves only one Israeli company, ClearForest, with 18 employees, in the WTC on 9/11. The four or five employees in the building at the time manage to escape. [Jerusalem Post, 9/13/2001] One year later, a Zim ship is impounded while attempting to ship Israeli military equipment to Iran; it is speculated that this is done with the knowledge of Israel. [Agence France-Presse, 3/29/2002]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&geopolitics_and_9/11=israel

[kathaksung]

Quote, "Five Years Later: The Official Story Falls Apart
Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:38:41 -0700
By Sander Hicks
State Department, media launch assault on 9/11 dissent

The government is getting desperate. Two major polls recently showed that a growing number of Americans doubt the official story around 9/11. On Aug. 28, the State Department responded with a direct assault against "misinformation," by publishing a statement that attacked the fringes of the 9/11 Truth Movement. A major media brouhaha immediately followed. The New York Times published a sarcastic sniff at 9/11 activism, titled "U.S. Counters 9/11 Theories Of Conspiracy" on September 2. Time magazine ran a sympathetic but dismissive review of the popular 9/11 film "Loose Change." ABC/Disney chimed in recently with a docu-drama based on the 9/11 Commission Report.

edited by donniedarko: read the rest here -->

http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2558/Five_Years_Later_The_Official_Story_Falls_Apart

[Chili]

One thing about 9/11 is this......

NORAD.

NORAD can track every single plane in the air over U.S. airspace. Even with the transponders turned off. Even if it took 15 minutes for them to realize one plane after another was turning off course, severly, Why did they not contact edwards air force base to send intercetor's? The airforce base in Maryland can have a plane over New York in a matter of minutes. Why didn't this happen?

A couple years ago Pyne Stewart was flying his lear jet over Texas. He had a heart attack and died in the cockpit. Within about 5 minutes, NORAD noticed the discrepency(of him flying off course) and tried radio contact. When this failed, they scrambled two jets to intercept and see what the problem was. They realized Mr. Stewart was hunched over the controls and new something was wrong. The lear finally crached.

NORAD followed protocal for airial problems on this one. So why didn't they follow them on 9/11?

And this is just New York. Even when the one plane came into the restricted airspace of the Pentagon? Our nations command center for our entire military forces? The joint cheifs offices, Rumsfeld's office? Come on, the air force and Norad both would be all over that one!!

9/11 was allowed to happen. That's the only possible answer for me.
Did you know that an FBI suspect list was released for the identities of the 13 or so hijackers? It was shown that 9 of them were still alive after the attacks. So middle eastern people are immune to death? Or at least flying a passanger jet into a building.....

Most of my references come from books, However the book I refer to most on 9/11 is called "Alice in wonderland and the World trade center Disaster: why the official story of 9/11 is a monumental lie" By David Icke.
If you are really curious, you can go to Mr. Ickes web page and read through the pages of archives he has posted on the subject. Norad is just one interesting aspect of the story......

Well, to answer your question, "Why were jet's not scrambled, interceptors sent, etc." it was supposedly because there was a terrorist attack drill scheduled to happen that day. When the bases got word of the World Trade Centers they were (again, supposedly) told to stand down because it was "part of the drill". Interesting things, these drills.

I'm currently watching a movie called "Terrorstorm" by Alex Jones and also writing a research paper for school. Once I'm done with both expect a rather large post from me on 9/11 an relevant topics.

[Raptor Witness]

[Link- The Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation] (http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050116064744556)

If you're curious how you're being deceived, read the above. This evil isn't going to go easily. Indeed, it's going to take supernatural help to remove it.

For a balanced view, here's a VERY [good rebuttal] (http://www.debunking911.com/index.html) that I haven't seen before, showing some excellent photos of the damage to WT7. The funny thing is, there's NO explanation for [Larry Silverstein's statements on PBS.] (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=trade+center+7&pl=true) They lie right through their teeth, and the fish swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

How fitting that the religious right, the modern day Pharisees and Sadducees helped a Devil rise to power, for it is not [The goats] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pet_Goat) to whom Jesus says ... "depart from me, I never knew you?" [Matthew 25:31-46] (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2025:31-25:46&version=31)


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/80/235493181_79ccc881db.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/117/260728142_ba946c002a_o.gif

[Cartesiantheater]

. The funny thing is, there's NO explanation for [Larry Silverstein's statements on PBS.] (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=trade+center+7&pl=true) They lie right through their teeth, and the fish swallow it hook, line, and sinker.
.[/CENTER]

Yeah, except that his own spokesperson said that he ment something else...


Fourth, in a PBS documentary on the collapse, Larry Silverstein, the owner of the building, said the fire department had decided to "pull it".[59] Although his spokesperson later said Silverstein meant that firefighters had decided to withdraw from the building and the surrounding area for their own safety,[60] many conspiracy theorists insist that "pull it" is technical slang in the demolition industry for demolish a building.

But I suppose since this article doesn't agree with you, it must be fabricated... or since his spokesperson disagrees with you, he must be lying...

[Raptor Witness]

No, I'm open minded Cartwright. I am a science major. Chemistry. I examined the molten metal observations in the basements of these buildings, and it's physically impossible, unless something else was going on, given the temperature limits on the fuel. You tell me, how far does molten metal travel down a cooled structure and/or atmosphere? Can you calculate the rate of a cooling stream of molten metal? It's very easy, and this is all a big fat lie. You can let them shove it up your candy azz all you want to, but they're not fooling me.

I presented a good argument for rebuttal, because I'm honest, not because I'm stupid. That site presents one of the best arguments I've seen. I watched Silverstein, and he meant pull the building. "It" doesn't refer to people.

These are evil people in charge of this country Cartwright, and Hell is on their heels.

[Cartesiantheater]

No, I'm open minded Cartwright. I am a science major. Chemistry. I examined the molten metal observations in the basements of these buildings, and it's physically impossible, unless something else was going on, given the temperature limits on the fuel. You tell me, how far does molten metal travel down a cooled structure and/or atmosphere? Can you calculate the rate of a cooling stream of molten metal? It's very easy, and this is all a big fat lie. You can let them shove it up your candy azz all you want to, but they're not fooling me. Really? Then care to tell me why that molten metal is not behaving like molten IRON (sparking wildly) but is instead behaving like molten ALLUMINUM as it flows down the building? Or why the metal is flowing directly out of the hole that the plane hit, thus carrying a large portion of the heat OUTSIDE of the building and AWAY from where you would want thermite to go (you want it to go to the collumns- I believe is what one of my sources said)? (In other words, if the collapse was intentional by bombers, these guys really suck balls at what they're doing)

The molten metal at ground zero was a result of trapped heat in pockets of debris (the iron melted after the building collapsed... the flowing metal from the buildings was aluminum). Not only is it POSSIBLE for metal to melt there, it is LIKELY. If heat can't escape with Iron, the Iron continues to burn. Even when in a liquid state it continues to burn. And if heat can't escape, the temperature has NO THEORETICAL LIMIT unitl all the electrons are stripped off and it becomes plasma (at that time, I have no knowledge about how it heats... haven't studied plasma). Underneath the debris, the metal is not heated by the jet fuel, it's heated by it's own fire (with trapped heat- which leads to higher temperatures, provided there is oxygen) {in other words, there is a perfectly non-spectacular explanation for the molten metal at ground zero- even the composition can be explaned in ordinary terms}


I presented a good argument for rebuttal, because I'm honest, not because I'm stupid. That site presents one of the best arguments I've seen. I watched Silverstein, and he meant pull the building. "It" doesn't refer to people. He meant the building and I think 12 jurors would agree. Then why did his own spokesperson say that's what he meant?

EDIT- one more thing... if you're a science major, you're going to have to give up this religious fundementalism... you won't last long if you don't... or at least not many do...

EDIT 2- I didn't check your link at all Raptor. I was just responding to the Silverstien comment with what wiki said... that's it.

[Raptor Witness]

When you light a charcoal fire, does it melt your grill? Think! All this amounted to was a big kerosene fire that flash burned, then essentially went out. If you add paper, wood, anything, does it melt your grill? This is the biggest lie ever told, which is why they got away with it, and engineers who dispute the official BS are being laid off from their jobs. What does that tell you? Something to hide, maybe?

Here's a woman named Edna Cintron, standing in the opening of the North Tower, where the first plane penetrated. Funny, if there was enough radiant energy to melt the girders, how come she looks so good? Isn't this is where the bulk of the fuel landed and ignited? How come we don't see the building's aluminum skin melting before our eyes? Is the fire hotter after the building collapses? Her hair isn't burnt, her clothes look pretty good. You can see a little bit of soot on her pant legs, and thats it! She should be burning alive! [Link to movie of her waving] (http://italy.indymedia.org/uploads/2005/04/woman-waving-close.avi)
[Link to page view] (http://www.the7thfire.com/9-11/World_Trade_Center/no_towering_inferno.htm)


The Devil is sitting on his throne, right in front of your eyes. Here is fellow citizen Edna Cintron waving to his lying azz.


http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4083/wtcwoman3yt.jpg

[TC]

Good point raptor, I have wondered about that picture.

[Raptor Witness]

This woman is a living indicator for the amount of heat that was generated, both initially and immediately after the flash fire, yet no one discusses her well being as any evidence. She's my number one witness. She's alive and she's waving to us. Most of the heat was dissipated away from the building, as we saw when the collision occurred. Here's another excellent new web site with fresh reports and evidence that I've never seen before. Listen carefully to these eye witnesses. The first is a police officer who frankly is disturbed by how the crime scene was handled. This wasn't handled like any crime. This was handled like an inside job from before day one. [Study of 911 and WTC7] (http://www.studyof911.com/video/flvplayer/playmovie.php?video=wtc7_explosion_01.flv)

[Cartesiantheater]

When you light a charcoal fire, does it melt your grill? Think!
Raptor, that's a load of crap. You can't compare it to a BBQ fire because you can't simulate things like flashover fires, smoke explosions or backdrafts.


All this amounted to was a big kerosene fire that flash burned, then essentially went out.
That's also a load of crap. Did you not see the smoke and flames that burned until it collapsed? Oh, and did you forget that steel does not magically bend back into place if it cools (in other words, the heat will warp it and comprimise it's structural integrity- and it doesn't regain it's structural shape...)? Oh, and I suppose I should mention that the leading theories on the issue do not require the steel to get all that hot at all. Certaintly no where near melting point. And concsidering that the molten metal found can be explained in non-amazing terms... and thermite to cut metal? Doesn't match observations...
Let's forget for a moment that thermite doesn't explode so the claims of hearing explosions become meaningless. The argument that there was thermite and explosives seems to be rationalization of this dilemma. Why would they use thermite which cuts steel without announcing it, then switch to explosives? To tip people off? No theory exist to explain this but the faithful simply say "We're still working on it". I'm sure they are. Let's also give ourselves selective amnesia and pretend thermite can burn sideways to melt vertical columns. Maybe with some device but no working device has been proven to me to work. While there are relatively large canisters which can burn small holes sideways, I have yet to see this elusive steel cutting technique used to cut a vertical column. Further, the molten metal found at ground zero can easily be explained in non-amazing terms. The metal flowing from the builting was ALUMINUM from the plane...
Yet, there is enough evidence to point to the glow being aluminum. (Anyone saying they KNOW what the substance is would be lying. I won't pretend to KNOW it's aluminum because I don't. The NIST doesn't say they KNOW either. They only conclude it's aluminum because it's the most likely, given the evidence.)

"NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.

Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface."

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

One of the glaringly OBVIOUS pieces of evidence is the place the flow is coming from. It just happens to be where the airliner crashed to a halt. You can tell by the way the perimeter columns look. They're bowed out like a catcher's mitt.



If you add paper, wood, anything, does it melt your grill? This is the biggest lie ever told, which is why they got away with it, and engineers who dispute the official BS are being laid off from their jobs. What does that tell you? Something to hide, maybe?

Look at this... from a freakin fire truck burning...

The hydrocarbon fire (gas, diesel, oil) whatever it was, caused the steel I-beam above it to expand, and where the beam was "softest" (its Young's modulus was reduced where it was heated) the beam was deformed by that force. The beam could not move the objects pinning its ends (could not freely elongate), so a compressive distortion occurred within the length of the beam itself. Upon cooling, the beam did not resume its original shape, nor its original length, because the forces generated by its thermal expansion had compressively deformed it. If this were a vertical column supporting a heavy building in parallel with other columns (which would restrain it from freely elongating), the column so heated and deformed would not be able to carry its rated load, and UPON COOLING SOME it would then thermally contract but would be x inches SHORTER than when it was installed and thus it could be PULLING THE BUILDING DOWN INSTEAD OF HOLDING IT UP.


link (http://www.debunking911.com/ironburns.htm)

and pics (http://www.debunking911.com/truck.htm)


Here's a woman named Edna Cintron, standing in the opening of the North Tower, where the first plane penetrated. Funny, if there was enough radiant energy to melt the girders, how come she looks so good?

Girders weren't melted... that was not molten steel flowing down... as has been discussed above...it was aluminum from the plane...


Isn't this is where the bulk of the fuel landed and ignited? How come we don't see the building's aluminum skin melting before our eyes? Is the fire hotter after the building collapses? Her hair isn't burnt, her clothes look pretty good. You can see a little bit of soot on her pant legs, and thats it! She should be burning alive! [Link to movie of her waving] (http://italy.indymedia.org/uploads/2005/04/woman-waving-close.avi)
[Link to page view] (http://www.the7thfire.com/9-11/World_Trade_Center/no_towering_inferno.htm)


The Devil is sitting on his throne, right in front of your eyes. Here is fellow citizen Edna Cintron waving to his lying azz.


http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4083/wtcwoman3yt.jpg

Look where the fire is at in your video... and look where the woman is standing... hell it looks like maybe where the wing hit, I don't know... but CLEARLY there is a raging fire a couple of stories AWAY from the woman...

[Raptor Witness]

Even if we assume that somehow the fire was hot enough to cause a failure, which I could concede, it doesn't account for the rate of fall, exceeding what would mathematically be expected. Study the calculations and see if you can account for the lack of resistance observed. There was no resistance, and no explanation for this is given. The rate of fall doesn't just exceed what would be expected by a little, it exceeds what would be expected by a lot. That math doesn't change by wishful thinking.

Here's what I think happened. They knew that these buildings would likely be attacked one day. They also knew that the fires might be difficult to put out, lasting perhaps for days. Every day that these fires burned above New York City would have cost the economy billions. Not millions, billions of dollars in lost revenue. So they wired the buildings ahead of time with explosives, so that they could pull them, just like the "pulled it," WT7. They pulled the buildings, all of them, as part of a precalculated risk assessment measure, just like Larry Silverstein said. The real rub is they somehow knew the day the attack would take place. Do I need to believe in conspiracy? Not really, I just need to believe in a possible scenario where I asked what would happen if they did nothing, and tried to put out two high rise fires. They did this to save money, and they may have also reasoned that it would save lives by doing a controlled demolition, instead of allowing these buildings to potentially fall over onto surrounding structures. THINK of what happens if you DON'T pull them, and you can easily reason why they felt they had to.

They don't want to argue about the reasoning behind their motives. They don't' want to have to explain to the families why their loved ones had to be sacrificed to the God of the Almighty dollar and the generational war machine. They pulled those buildings. They sent the anthrax that same day, and used it as a WMD kicker excuse to go after Saddam Hussein. Then they spent a half a trillion dollars, that we know of, on guns instead of butter, and trained the next generation of soldier commanders. It's the same ol' crap, generation after generation. We got a lesson in death that day, which is exactly how
[my 911 dream ends,] (http://forums.armageddononline.org/showpost.php?p=91287&postcount=25) with an American/german cannibal in charge of the whole operation, and me digging for human remains amidst a pile of books which have all toppled onto a classroom floor.

What does it all really mean? Indeed, truth was cast to the ground that day, which is how the prophet Daniel describes it.
The flying goat attacks Iraq, and next Iran, and then guess what ... there is no more great horn. There is no more Almighty dollar to worry about. The alarm bell is ringing, but it's not recess, and I don't believe that anyone is going Home, yet. We are living in the middle of a great big lie. So big that the sheep can't see it. So I'll repeat what I've said before.


If the snake that swallows you is big enough, you won't see it coming, or even know that you're inside of it. You just know that it's dark and smells really bad.

[Cartesiantheater]

Even if we assume that somehow the fire was hot enough to cause a failure, which I could concede, it doesn't account for the rate of fall, exceeding what would mathematically be expected. Study the calculations and see if you can account for the lack of resistance observed. There was no resistance, and no explanation for this is given. The rate of fall doesn't just exceed what would be expected by a little, it exceeds what would be expected by a lot. That math doesn't change by wishful thinking. That's not true at all.... Exactly what is the fasted possible theoretical fall, raptor? (btw, I KNOW this... so don't try to lie...well, I can calculate it...). Approximately how fast was it observed to be (also, I know that THIS number is open to debate... there is a margin of certainty), and approximately how fast would you expect it to be and why?


Here's what I think happened. They knew that these buildings would likely be attacked one day. They also knew that the fires might be difficult to put out, lasting perhaps for days. Every day that these fires burned above New York City would have cost the economy billions. Not millions, billions of dollars in lost revenue. So they wired the buildings ahead of time with explosives, so that they could pull them, just like the "pulled it," WT7. They pulled the buildings, all of them, as part of a precalculated risk assessment measure, just like Larry Silverstein said. The real rub is they somehow knew the day the attack would take place. Do I need to believe in conspiracy? Not really, I just need to believe in a possible scenario where I asked what would happen if they did nothing, and tried to put out two high rise fires. They did this to save money, and they may have also reasoned that it would save lives by doing a controlled demolition, instead of allowing these buildings to potentially fall over onto surrounding structures. THINK of what happens if you DON'T pull them, and you can easily reason why they felt they had to. I was almost giving you the benefit of the doubt until...(see below...)




What does it all really mean? Indeed, truth was cast to the ground that day, which is how the prophet Daniel describes it.
The flying goat attacks Iraq, and next Iran, and then guess what ... there is no more great horn. There is no more Almighty dollar to worry about. The alarm bell is ringing, but it's not recess, and I don't believe that anyone is going Home, yet. We are living in the middle of a great big lie. So big that the sheep can't see it. So I'll repeat what I've said before.


If the snake that swallows you is big enough, you won't see it coming, or even know that you're inside of it. You just know that it's dark and smells really bad.

You just HAD to prove your bias by bringing up your need for prophecy to be fulfilled... that's how I KNOW that the facts will have little bearing on your decision... You WANT it to be a conspiracy, because that fits with your religion...

[Raptor Witness]

My faith is part of my life. I apologize for straying into these waters, for arguments sake, because it injects my personal religious theories into the realm of everyday reality. That's a fair criticism. However, you didn't have this strange dream, which bugged you for years, because it was so different from any other that you ever had. You haven't been threatened by your own government for a gift that God gave you, and which you barely understand.

We're faced with a choice at the End of the times of the Gentiles, which simply means the end of the United States and earthly government, and the beginning of the Kingdom of God. To believe, or not to believe the lies. To worship or not to worship the Beast and False Prophet(electronic media). Some are very fearful of what will become, this religious way of thinking. However, the rebellion is theirs.

You're absolutely right, I'm not satisfied with believing in only the world of men, but it's going to be very hard to convince me that it was necessary to go to war with Iraq, regardless.

[Cartesiantheater]

My faith is part of my life. I apologize for straying into these waters, for arguments sake, because it injects my personal religious theories into the realm of everyday reality. That's a fair criticism. However, you didn't have this strange dream, which bugged you for years, because it was so different from any other that you ever had. You haven't been threatened by your own government for a gift that God gave you, and which you barely understand.

We're faced with a choice at the End of the times of the Gentiles, which simply means the end of the United States and earthly government, and the beginning of the Kingdom of God. To believe, or not to believe the lies. To worship or not to worship the Beast and False Prophet(electronic media). Some are very fearful of what will become, this religious way of thinking. However, the rebellion is theirs.

You're absolutely right, I'm not satisfied with believing in only the world of men, but it's going to be very hard to convince me that it was necessary to go to war with Iraq, regardless.
Raptor, you have a good point. I have NOT had your experiences, so I can't say for sure whether or not they are valid. And, since this is NOT the science section, I suppose I shouldn't criticize for your religion requiring this sort of thing.

As far as this issue, if you really want to know the REAL reason I am so loathed to believe the conspiracy theory... it is for the same reason I am loathed to believe in miracles- I fight tooth and nail against the spectacular for the sake of science... the reason?

If EVERY mundane possible explanation is exhausted, THEN we know the amazing has happened... so having this sort of skepticism is required (somebody's got to do it...)... anyway...

But you are right, the Iraq War is total crap. The reasons are not noble in the least.

[darlingnikki]

You said it your self RW, prophecy isn't meant for everyone.....

[Cartesiantheater]

You said it your self RW, prophecy isn't meant for everyone.....
well, nikki, Im not above discussing theology. In fact, I've posted numorous times on things like the rapture, etc.

But, I'm going to side with most Biblical scholars on this one- the Great Babylon is somewhere in Europe or where Iraq is...

[darlingnikki]

well, nikki, Im not above discussing theology. In fact, I've posted numorous times on things like the rapture, etc.

But, I'm going to side with most Biblical scholars on this one- the Great Babylon is somewhere in Europe or where Iraq is...
Where did you post on things like the Rapture? Of course I am not going to read ALL of your old posts..

[Cartesiantheater]

Where did you post on things like the Rapture? Of course I am not going to read ALL of your old posts..


Well, here's (http://www.armageddononline.org/forums/showpost.php?p=131033&postcount=23) one thread on it... of course, be warned, I believe that the rapture is NOT soundly founded on scripture (well, the rapture in the context that is taught in most churches- i.e. the Left Behind series interpretation of the rapture).


My purpose is to show you that you have been conditioned to believe the DOCTRINE rather than the SCRIPTURE. This is very dangerous, if you believe that the Bible is true. I'd advise some spiritual caution to you. But again, if you can provide scriptures that CLEARLY back up what you're saying, I'll take all this back.


You see, when I discuss theology, I interpret spiritual matters in the Bible EXACTLY as they are written, with little to no interpretation or theological holla hoops. And that has led me to be skeptical of the rapture as described by the Left Behind books.

Because from what I've seen, in order to make the case, you have to cross reference and take things out of scriptural context.

Now, the words of Jesus DO seem to imply that some people will be taken "on the last day" and some will not. However, people like the Left Behind authors add in a BUNCH of extra Biblical and/or out of context interpretation with the apparent intention of making the Bible fit their theology.

This is a big theological no no to me. Along the same lines as trying to make the evidence fit a theory.

But the point I was trying to make is that even though I am an evolutionist, I still enjoy learning about theology, and I want to emphasize that Christianity can co-exist with it.

[darlingnikki]

I don't think there will be a rapture of the church, on account of, Matthew24:24.For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-- if that were possible. Here's an article about The Great Deception, that is coming upon the whole world. This should get interesting! You might enjoy learning about this!

http://www.goodnewsarticles.com/Jan05-8.htm

[Raptor Witness]

There's no doubt that we've been lied to, but I believe these lies are artificial, not supernatural. That is, they are of men, not God. Just like when Moses confronted Pharaoh. It will be no different! God's power will distinguish itself from the Devil's. An example is the electronic media, created by men, not God! That's the mechanism by which the same lies today are propagated.

Look at hurricane Katrina. A kingdom divided cannot stand, correct? Would the Devil attack himself? Is the United States the Kingdom of God on earth? Can a state which separates life from the womb be part of the real Kingdom of God? Anything which supports the false Kingdom of God on earth is part of the great deception, and anything which spiritually confronts the Beast and False Prophet are part of the coming true Kingdom of God, because the times of the Gentiles are over.

Hurricane Katrina was the opening volley in a series of plagues from God that will strike the throne of the Beast and False Prophet. The purpose is not to create or cause rebellion, just the opposite, the purpose will be to reveal and uncover the lies and deceptions of this false kingdom, so that good men and women will repent and turn towards their Maker. For too long, we have bathed in the false light of humanism. For too long we have trusted Lucifer with our self-government. For tool long we have been complacent, because we had plenty, so plenty will be taken away. As God is my witness, Americans will be as poor as everyone else on earth, and you will see the true condition of their hearts. The wind is about to blow the chaff away.


http://www.students.bucknell.edu/jsuway/Winnow.gif

[darlingnikki]

cool! Call me crazy, but I am looking forward to it!