Objectivity is shared subjectivity

[coberst]

Objectivity is shared subjectivity


Everything we perceive is dependent upon our biological nature and reality has meaning only in what our sense and perception biology provide us. Real for me is only what I perceive to be real.

Someone said that objectivity is shared subjectivity; this phrase resonates for me; really. What we can say about reality is based upon our shared objectivity, it does not say anything significant about reality in-it-self, except in its constancy, but it is significant in that we humans share it universally; it is reality-for-humans

Each different comprehension of a situation provides a commitment to what is real about a situation. Each such real commitment is a version of a commitment to truth.

The arts and the sciences endeavor to discover and communicate to the world the meaning of reality. There came a time in the evolution of the human psychic when we became semantic creatures; we discovered the power of symbolic representation of events. Art focuses on the inner reality of the subject whereas science focused on the reality that was external to the subject.

“From this traditionalist standpoint information and the perception of meaning in the information is the central content of both arts and sciences. Hence when we speak of progress in the arts and sciences we can really refer to only one thing, namely that progress is taking place as long as the sum total of meaningful artistic and scientific statements waxes.” “The Coming of the Golden Age” by Gunther Stent

What we mean by “real” is what we need to postulate conceptually in order to be realistic, i.e., in order to function successfully to survive, to achieve ends, and to arrive at a workable understanding of the situation we are in. (Example—“verb”, “concept”, “image schema”, “energy” “charge”—none can be directly observed but play a crucial role in our understanding). “Philosophy in the Flesh”

[Cartesiantheater]

What about Descartes' "I think therefore I am?"

He claims that he can be sure of nothing, except that he is thinking, because if he wasn't, how could he be unsure? And the logical conclusion was that he exists in some form... hence, he is "real."

What about that?

(btw, I haven't covered rebuttals of his idea in Phil class yet, so forgive me if I am just ignorant here...)

(and of course there is a priori knowledge- outside of our senses- but Descartes gives a logical reason for doubting it...)

[Philosopher Foelhe]

My feeling is that reality is objective, but our knowledge of reality is always subjective. If this world is an illusion, then it is a objective truth that it is an illusion. No offence to anyone, but it seems like arrogance to presume that reality shifts because of our perceptions.

[Perfectionist]

So you are saying a woman is only a Hot Babe if everybody else thinks she is a Hot Babe ?? :D

What about beauty being in the eye of the beholder ..... reality doesn't always have to be a democracy .....

[coberst]

What about Descartes' "I think therefore I am?"

He claims that he can be sure of nothing, except that he is thinking, because if he wasn't, how could he be unsure? And the logical conclusion was that he exists in some form... hence, he is "real."

What about that?

(btw, I haven't covered rebuttals of his idea in Phil class yet, so forgive me if I am just ignorant here...)

(and of course there is a priori knowledge- outside of our senses- but Descartes gives a logical reason for doubting it...)


I was educated in engineering but also had some interest in philosophy. My first philosophy course was Descartes' "Meditations on First Philosophy". I suspect this is an introductory course for most students studying philosophy. Descartes has left Western tradition with a gigantic legacy that only now is this legacy being undermined by cognitive science.

Descartes goes through a sequence of analysis in an effort to find an absolute truth upon which to build his philosophy. He settled on "Cogito, ergo sum". "I think therefore I am". The conclusions of this series of analysis by Descartes have set the course, more or less, of Western philosophy. What are the fateful conclusions derived from the work of Descartes?

"I am, I exist, that is certain. But how often? Just when I think; for it might possibly be the case if I ceased entirely to think, that I should likewise cease altogether to exist...But what then am I? A thing that thinks."

The Folk Theory of Essences
Every kind of thing has an essence that makes it the kind of thing it is.
The way each thing naturally behaves is a consequence of its essence.

Descartes knows he exists because he thinks. Because he exists he has an essence. He assumes nothing else causes his thinking but his essence. Conclusion: thinking must be at least a part of the human essence.

"Just because I know certainly that I exist, and that meanwhile I do not remark that any other thing necessarily pertains to my nature or essence, excepting that I am a thinking thing, I rightly conclude that my essence consists solely in the fact that I am a thinking thing."

"It is certain that this I [that is to say, my soul by which I am what I am], is entirely, and absolutely distinct from my body and can exist without it."

To have reached that last conclusion Descartes must assume an additional:

The Folk Theory of Substance and Attributes
A substance is that which exists in itself and does not depend for its existence on any other thing.
Each substance has one and only one primary attribute that defines what its essence is.

The following is what his introspection has made him “see”:

There are two kinds of substance, one bodily and the other mental.
The attribute of bodily substance is extension in space.
The attribute of mental substance is thought.

[coberst]

My feeling is that reality is objective, but our knowledge of reality is always subjective. If this world is an illusion, then it is a objective truth that it is an illusion. No offence to anyone, but it seems like arrogance to presume that reality shifts because of our perceptions.


Our human biology determines certain aspects of what we think is real. In that ths is universal to all humans then this aspect of reality is objective in that all humans share that same experience. There are some aspect so human experience that is not biologically determined, what we can imagine for example, this which is not universal to all humans is subjective. It may not be the same for you as it is for me.

What we regard as real is somewhat determined by the world but we cannot know absolutly what the world is.