Change in rules or something with Religious forum!

[Assassin X]

I just ignore the religious forum now simply because like everyone else people choose to bash religion instead of ignoring what doesn't effect them.

Well I think something needs to change here.

There needs to be some kind of ground rules set on just how much bashing is allowed to be done. I am getting sick of no matter where I go on the net including here all I see is the same thing. Unfair rules. Here is no diffrent.

Since the majority isn't christian (or religious?) they find it acceptable or even funny to make very hurtful comments about my religion. Its fine to have the once and awhile comment or topic about someone debating religion. But on here all it is, is:

"God can suck my ****"
"<wise crack about jesus being gay>"
"Another pedo priest, what perverted christians"
"<wise crack about jesus on a cross>"
"Christians are such shelterd nutcases"
"<wise crack about jesus doing drugs>"

All nothing but bashes, wise cracks, and mean remarks. Yet in any other forum such things are not tolerated. When someone "sounds" like they are being racist everyone tears into them, when someone personally attacks someone everyone tears into them...etc. If I made a wise crack about a dying cancer patient (lets say a kid) I'd probably get reemed then banned. But in the religion section...... nothing. You can get away with pretty much anything. Its sickening and it needs to stop. Why should I respect the rules in the other forums if no one wants to respect me and my beliefs?

No need to post "Yeah, jesus sure liked being an asshole". If you want to be a asshole yourself about religion because you don't like it don't post.

Now that I think about the younger generation calls people that try to cause fights or arguments "Trolls" thats what goes on here in that forum. If anyone tries to be serious you people "Troll" and provoke them with your idiotic crap.

Now that I ranted my crap. Thats why I feel if the rest of this board seems to have "general" rules of not letting anyone get out of line then so should that board. Because it just seems to be a whole seperate board where no one cares who gets hurt.

[RavenWhitefang]

I agree with you there, although I am not christian. I have always been one for at least trying to keep religious debate just that, an exchange of ideas. The reason we have so many trolls and flamers on religion here is the fact that people egg them on, and this is what they want, to get a rise out of people so that they can spew more hate at whatever religion is going at the moment.

Like with the other thread, the Kramer thread, I would like people to be able to express their opinions openly, but choosing their words carefully. Yes, you may not agree with what someone says, but there doesnt have to be a flame war. Be Adult about the posting, not immature and be considerate of others feelings. This is a main underlying problem of the internet, people just associate nicknames as just a word on the screen and not a real person that sits behind the keyboard and pounds out the words. It is rather sad that most people who talk so big and so loud online, cannot even begin to speak so loudly or boldly offline.

We are not adverse to religion here, and to be honest, Yes, the religion forum needs an enema. So please, if something is posted that is offensive, in ANY forum, PM me or one of the other mods, and we will review the offensive posting and if need be edit or delete it. Thats our job here, to keep the peace, and I take my job seriously.

[TC]

I think Assassin has a valid point, I've seen a few sites that had a "no bashing" rule in the religion section, it seemed to work quite well, people had to debate a faith or belief with some respect, regardless if they hated it. We do have enough topics people can speak their minds with, or bash.

[Assassin X]

BTW I am know I am not perfect either and that religion isn't a "loved thing" but remember when you attack it theres still people with feeling on the other side of that screen.

[DontBeAfraid]

I think AX is full of shit. There is very little bashing, for the sake of bashing, going on in the religion section. All responses are provoked. There are tons of threads that get none of my attention or the attention of other non religious people simply becuase they discuss things that dont affect us.

edit:
The difference between racism and bashing religion is that a persons race is not their choice.

[liberdave]

I think the problem is that there is a thin line between criticism and bashing and it gets blurred. I feel that if the response is validated by the argument then it is fair game. However, if someone gets an unsolicited response, then depending on content, the responder will either get the cold shoulder or reprimanded. Sound fair?

[Cartesiantheater]

I agree with you there, although I am not christian. I have always been one for at least trying to keep religious debate just that, an exchange of ideas. The reason we have so many trolls and flamers on religion here is the fact that people egg them on, and this is what they want, to get a rise out of people so that they can spew more hate at whatever religion is going at the moment.

Like with the other thread, the Kramer thread, I would like people to be able to express their opinions openly, but choosing their words carefully. Yes, you may not agree with what someone says, but there doesnt have to be a flame war. Be Adult about the posting, not immature and be considerate of others feelings. This is a main underlying problem of the internet, people just associate nicknames as just a word on the screen and not a real person that sits behind the keyboard and pounds out the words. It is rather sad that most people who talk so big and so loud online, cannot even begin to speak so loudly or boldly offline.

We are not adverse to religion here, and to be honest, Yes, the religion forum needs an enema. So please, if something is posted that is offensive, in ANY forum, PM me or one of the other mods, and we will review the offensive posting and if need be edit or delete it. Thats our job here, to keep the peace, and I take my job seriously.

Please take the context into consideration when you guys delete alleged bashing. For example, if I say, "IF God forces people to go to Hell because they don't believe in him, then he is an asshole," then I'm not really bashing the REAL God (if he is a loving God), and I am right that a God who sends people to Hell is an asshole, so I really don't feel that that is a bash on God. Am I wrong here? What if there was a religion that stated that God hates all Jews? Would that be tolerated? And yet we're supposed to tolerate a religion that sends people born in India to Hell? (think about it; what chance of conversion is there for a born and raised Hindu?) What do you think?

[liberdave]

That is exactly the reason why we cannot have any hard and fast rules governing the religions thread. Unfortunately, us mods can only use our subjective ideals to mod and sometimes people get shafted because of it.

[grendel 13]

The difference between racism and bashing religion is that a persons race is not their choice.

yeah your right, usually. hat about the jewish, and i've always wondered this, but i mean they are born jewish, right? so how does that play into the whole religion is a choice thing?

[DontBeAfraid]

You can quit being jewish anytime you want.

[Assassin X]

Thats my point though. To me saying "IF God forces people to go to Hell because they don't believe in him, then he is an asshole," is bashing, and matter of fact it is. If I said "Not letting your kids go to school makes you an asshole", that would be bashing. Its no diffrent. And to add to it its more hurtful to me because my religion is something that is deeper to me. Its like if you loved your kids. If someone says something REALLY harsh (I can't post an example) it would sting you because they mean alot to you, they are "deep" to you, well they should be at least.

Thats kind of the problem with people, since religion is fake to them it "can't" be bashing. You can't bash something that isn't real.

Also if you just HAVE to say how much you dislike god you could say it in a non provoking, non assaulting way like ""F God forces people to go to Hell because they don't believe in him, I just don't think thats right." No need to be nasty and hurt what people believe in.


I think AX is full of shit. There is very little bashing, for the sake of bashing, going on in the religion section. All responses are provoked.

Such as my "Did dinos exist in bible times?" thread? If anyone posts a serious question everyone that hates religion just makes a mockery out of it, then bashses any answer because the person that asked the question gets offended. What do you want? You step on someone then you expect them to say "Yes sir I am a moron".

Theres no need to go the thread if you go along with the thread and not have to always post a smart ass remark about religion. It seems to me people are so "mad" at religion that they just have to come in and ruin everything instead of leaving it alone.


edit:
The difference between racism and bashing religion is that a persons race is not their choice.
I was going to put no comment but..... nevermind, no comment.

[DontBeAfraid]

"IF God forces people to go to Hell because they don't believe in him, then he is an asshole," is bashing, and matter of fact it is.no.... saying something like "AX is a moron because he is a religious tool who believes that dinosaurs were around 6000 years ago" would be bashing. Simply stating that a god who tortures people eternally is an asshole is not bashing.

If people believe in something that is absurd its not bashing to state that its absurd. If it is your belief that your god thinks I deserve I will be tortured for all eternity its hardly bashing for me to tell you that you believe in an asshole.

[Cartesiantheater]

If I said "Not letting your kids go to school makes you an asshole", that would be bashing.

You would be correct in your assessment that I was an asshole if I didn't let my kids go to school.


Its no diffrent. And to add to it its more hurtful to me because my religion is something that is deeper to me. Its like if you loved your kids. If someone says something REALLY harsh (I can't post an example) it would sting you because they mean alot to you, they are "deep" to you, well they should be at least. But what you got to understand is that, if your God DOES torture people for all eternity, then he IS an asshole. If he DOESN'T, then I am NOT bashing your God. In anycase, if God is good, there is NO WAY that I am bashing the REAL God, because a good God does NOT torture people. You've got to consider that maybe there are aspects of your religion that you have misinterpreted, or that perhaps the picture of God painted in the Bible is not entirely accurate. There are Christian and Jewish denominations that do NOT believe in Hell. They have got to be closer to the truth, assuming God is good.


Thats kind of the problem with people, since religion is fake to them it "can't" be bashing. You can't bash something that isn't real.Well, I don't necessarily believe that God isn't real. I DO however, believe that it is impossible for God to be both all powerful and loving and STILL allow people to be tortured for all eternity in Hell.


Also if you just HAVE to say how much you dislike god you could say it in a non provoking, non assaulting way like ""F God forces people to go to Hell because they don't believe in him, I just don't think thats right." No need to be nasty and hurt what people believe in. Maybe, but if I'm trying to convince you to modify your opinion of God, saying, "I don't think that's right" is not going to go very far. You have to be shown that it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to REALLY be loving and STILL allow people to be tortured for all eternity.




Such as my "Did dinos exist in bible times?" thread? If anyone posts a serious question everyone that hates religion just makes a mockery out of it, then bashses any answer because the person that asked the question gets offended. What do you want? You step on someone then you expect them to say "Yes sir I am a moron". What you got to understand here, is that these creationism concepts make a mockery of hundreds of years of critical research. These athiests are NOT attacking creationism; they are COUNTER-attacking it. Of course, this debate has turned very personal on both sides... on BOTH sides... and don't forget that.


Theres no need to go the thread if you go along with the thread and not have to always post a smart ass remark about religion. It seems to me people are so "mad" at religion that they just have to come in and ruin everything instead of leaving it alone.
However, there are consequences from ignorance, including the stifling of scientific education in our school systems in the name of religion...there are very good reasons for scientists to want to try to "cure" relgions ignorance... the religious are trying to DESTROY science (as evidenced by the recent court cases in Kansas over evolution)

[dutchie]

If the mods and admins would ban out all bashing (bashing from the POV of those who get bashed), these forums would die a swift death.

The whole point of a forum is presenting an argument and provoking a response. If you don't like the response, because you experience it as being "bashing", either slap the hand of the person doing it (I see this very rarely, but it DOES work...), return the bashing (usually leads to thread wars..), give a decent reply in which you explicitly IGNORE the bashing, or just go away and post in another thread.

What I am seeing is that all who alledgedly get "bashed" ALWAYS come back for more. Now they're either masochists or they just don't care enough to choose one of the options I gave before. Either way, whining about it (which is happening here..) is no solution.

Saying that God is an asshole can not be seen as bashing, because it is not directed at the religious person in the thread, but at his deity of preference. PERSONAL attacks should get edited out, I think. You can not say "YOU're an asshole" and get away with it (unless you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the person in question indeed IS an asshole, which - in some cases - is rather obvious anyway...): mods and admins should slap the hand of the perp forthwith.

[DontBeAfraid]

unless you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the person in question indeed IS an asshole, which - in some cases - is rather obvious anyway...): Why did Ithink of MD?.... I like MD.

[dutchie]

So do I. Which leads to the conclusion he can not be such an asshole after all...
Apart from that - I met the guy, so I know for a FACT he isn't.

[Assassin X]

Well I guess then its going to be one of things non religious people will never get. If I call lets say your wife an asshole you would take offense. If you cal god an asshole I take offense. Its my religion your insluting and therefor its bashing to me.

To everyeone else they make reasons why its not but they don't udnerstand why it is because they aren't religious to get it. But if you could let go of your hatred for a second and think of our god as your most loved person (kid, spouse...etc) thats what its like for us. Now have that person insulted in front of you. Don't you think that shouldn't be bashed?

I don't care if people bash the bible, crosses...etc. They are all objects, although some people seem to think its insulting if you bash objects or what not, like that jewish guy about the christmas tree, insulted by it.

[Cartesiantheater]

Well I guess then its going to be one of things non religious people will never get. If I call lets say your wife an asshole you would take offense. If you cal god an asshole I take offense. Its my religion your insluting and therefor its bashing to me.

To everyeone else they make reasons why its not but they don't udnerstand why it is because they aren't religious to get it. But if you could let go of your hatred for a second and think of our god as your most loved person (kid, spouse...etc) thats what its like for us. Now have that person insulted in front of you. Don't you think that shouldn't be bashed?

I don't care if people bash the bible, crosses...etc. They are all objects, although some people seem to think its insulting if you bash objects or what not, like that jewish guy about the christmas tree, insulted by it.

Yes, Assx, but I'm NOT bashing God, if God is defined as the most loving being that can be conceived. I AM bashing a FLAWED understanding of him, however, because God CANNOT be the most loving being that can be conceived and STILL allow people to be tortured for all eternity. Do you agree or disagree with the lime green part?

How am I bashing God if we define God as the most loving being that can be conceived, considering that I am NOT bashing God IF he IS the most loving being that can be conceived?(i.e., he finds a way for non-believers NOT to be tortured for all eternity; something that clearly is NOT impossible in principle, since the Hindu's solved that one nicely with reincarnation)

Your only way out of this is to admit one of the following: That your God is NOT the most loving being that can be conceived, or that He is NOT all powerful, or to acknowledge that your understanding of Him might be slightly off. Which one?

[grendel 13]

Your only way out of this is to admit one of the following: That your God is NOT the most loving being that can be conceived, or that He is NOT all powerful, or to acknowledge that your understanding of Him might be slightly off. Which one?

or he can say that the very idea of a god is far beyond anything any human can even begin to understand and therefore its methods are also beyond anything we can understand. how about this, a mother completely cares for her son, does everything for him, makes sure he never has to endure any form of hardship, most would say that is a very loving mother, now another mother makes her son take out the trash, clean his room, do the dishes, makes him deal with his own problems, most people might think that this mother is not quite so loving. but the point is which child will probably do better in the world, i mean what is the first child going to do when his mother dies?

people have a tendency to think of god in human terms, and by doing so, of course a god is going to seem ridiculous. we seem to think of god as some human with extraordinary powers and assume that his methods are like ours, that his love is like ours, that his concepts are like ours, when really if a god does exist it is completely out of our league and therefore our attempts to discuss it are meaningless. it's like britney spears telling me about good music, what the hell does she know about good music, and what the hell do we know about god, nothing.

[Cartesiantheater]

I would say that Hinduism is most definately free of such paradoxes, once you get past the poly-mono-theism. But right and wrong, punishment and divine justice? There's NOTHING confusing about it. Brahman is better that Jesus, it's that simple. The reason? Christianity is MUCH newer, so the religion is slave to poor reasoning, unlike ancient Eastern religions, which have had much longer to evolve. There's NO hell, NO reason for God to brutally kill his son, none of that stuff. You pay for your own sins, but the wages aren't eternal. You get what you give in Hinduism. No ridiculous punishments at all.
So if God is Brahman, then God DOES in fact make perfect sense.

[Assassin X]

See this is what I am talking about. People bash the topics about religion. This was a topic about rules and it turns into a "Wells heres why god isn't real, admit you dumbass". Well, even though those aren't your words.

Point it people need to respect others things that they are deeply into. You get insulted if I insult you, so don't insult whats deep to me, my god. If you want to debate it while keeping it friendly then fine.

[Cartesiantheater]

See this is what I am talking about. People bash the topics about religion. This was a topic about rules and it turns into a "Wells heres why god isn't real, admit you dumbass". Well, even though those aren't your words.

Point it people need to respect others things that they are deeply into. You get insulted if I insult you, so don't insult whats deep to me, my god. If you want to debate it while keeping it friendly then fine.

Dude, I haven't insulted God at all. I've only said that your version of God isn't exactly accurate, and then presented a sound argument that backs up that claim. Are you not interested in coming to a better understanding of the God you claim to love?

YOUR the one insulting God, IMHO, by claiming that he sends innocent people to Hell just because they weren't born in a Christian country (again, what are the odds of a born and raised Muslim converting to Christianity? ...about the same as you converting to Islam...). My entire point is that God is NOT cruel, and THAT'S why Hell doesn't exist at all, and that's why he DOESN'T allow people to go there. YOUR insulting God by claiming that he DOES.

How is that not a fair argument? Your insulting MY God...

EDIT- I assume this is what you mean by bashing, right?
Brahman is better that Jesus, it's that simple. The reason? Christianity is MUCH newer, so the religion is slave to poor reasoning, unlike ancient Eastern religions, which have had much longer to evolve.

Let me ask you this: Don't you think that Jesus is better than Brahman? (and please don't dodge or ignore the question)
Don't you think that Hinduism is founded on misguided reasoning and ideas compared to Christianity? If not, why the hell do you follow Christianity? Or do you think that every religion is equally true?

[dutchie]

I think this discussion is gradually growing into something that should be transferred to the religion forums.. :wink:

Like mickydoolittle, I am ONLY inclined to bash non-arguments. I hardly ever attack someone personally, but I DO attack those who present poorly documented non-evidence as being the deep truth.

If I say:"My trinity is Hydrogen, Gravity and Space-time" (which I actually did a number of times), I'm doing two things: I take away the intelligence from God and I reduce God to naturally occuring phenomena. The fact that these three phenomena are actually the ONLY building blocks of the entire universe (stupidity not taken in the equation) is - IMO (!!) - the proof of the matter.

Now, am I bashing God? I would say yes - saying that God is no more intelligent than a brick is not exactly the polite thing to do towards christians. Yet I have a firm belief that this is true, based upon the evidence that was presented to me.

My point: when does the "bashing" of God start?!? When should people start to feel "bashed"? Why should people with a religion should receive a better protection from bashing than - let's say - people with a firm political belief (let's say neo-nazis...)???

[DontBeAfraid]

AX is a typical "persecuted" christian dutchie, he feels bashed long before he even logs onto the internet.

[jeffweeder]

All nothing but bashes, wise cracks, and mean remarks. Yet in any other forum such things are not tolerated. When someone "sounds" like they are being racist everyone tears into them, when someone personally attacks someone everyone tears into them...etc. If I made a wise crack about a dying cancer patient (lets say a kid) I'd probably get reemed then banned. But in the religion section...... nothing. You can get away with pretty much anything. Its sickening and it needs to stop. Why should I respect the rules in the other forums if no one wants to respect me and my beliefs?

Good on ya man, but whats the point of a moderated forum?
Sure we need mods, but how can you commincate what you really feel if their are rules that you cant say what you want to say. Your not going to be able to see the other person, he has to veil himself.-- To hell with that, i hate having to read between the lines. In the long run the mods will be able to recognise those that dont think, but just hate ETC
We must be able to lay some kind of solid foundation of who we are, and be genuine...
If certain people are are seen to be upsetting things, why not poll the forum on whether we tell certain ones to f off, or just let them be them.

Ive just realised how much i have drunk today. Ive been enjoying the cricket all day with a 750ml bottle of tequila (jose carvero) I think, and a bottle of triple sec, =margaritas. Ive had my black olives next to me, and throughout the day i made and prepared a ginger nut chicken dish with basmati, snowpeas, cabbage and garlic.
one of my own dishes that i cook up.

11 hrs since the firts one, and well there is 1/4 bottle left, in both ,and this test match goes for 5 days-----got no dakka left either.

Didnt expect that from me did ya.
If you cant be you whats the point, still believe what i think is obvious.

BEDTIME-

[liberdave]

If I say:"My trinity is Hydrogen, Gravity and Space-time" ...The fact that these three phenomena are actually the ONLY building blocks of the entire universe
What about the electro-magnetism, weak, and strong radioactive forces?

*liberdave tosses in that bomb, runs out of the room, shuts the door, hops into a car, and drives off without it ever being noticed that he hijacked a religious thread in the Suggestions and Feedback forum.

[dutchie]

What about the electro-magnetism, weak, and strong radioactive forces?
Yeah, what about them? (I needed a fuqin trinity, remember?!?... :Bott:)

[Assassin X]

See now you guys are insulting me. Now its just outright bashing.

Cartesiantheater comparing and debating religion is fine. The whole "bashing" was about things like "God sucks ****", "Priests are pedos"....etc. Basically insulting, name calling things in my religion. Thats the bashing I am talking about, not the last few posts (some of them) that have been discussing things with the use of offensive words.

Theres a diffrence between debating/discussing and mean/nasty debating/discussing.

Like I said way up top. You can say this line to ways:

"Gods an asshole for not letting people go to heaven"

or

"I disagree, If he doesn't let them go to hell then hes not loving"

Theres no need to word it offensivly. Thats the point I am trying to make. THe wording bashs my religion and me personally since I believe in god. However if you bashed something like a cross I could care since its not god, it was just a object.

[DontBeAfraid]

An entity that sends people to eternal torture is much better described as an asshole than as "not loving". In fact, asshole doesnt go nearly far enough to describe such a dispicable sick piece of garbage as a god that would torture someone eternally. If you must feel picked on let your god be the perpetrator of you victimization AX, not people who recognize it for what it is.

[Jupiter]

An entity that sends people to eternal torture is much better described as an asshole than as "not loving". In fact, asshole doesnt go nearly far enough to describe such a dispicable sick piece of garbage as a god that would torture someone eternally.

You're of course right there. Have you seen Solve et Coagula's thread about the diners who were tormented by the feast?
Of course, the real God does not want that to happen.

[jeffweeder]

An entity that sends people to eternal torture is much better described as an asshole than as "not loving". In fact, asshole doesnt go nearly far enough to describe such a dispicable sick piece of garbage as a god that would torture someone eternally. If you must feel picked on let your god be the perpetrator of you victimization AX, not people who recognize it for what it is.

How can you say that he sends you to hell, then stands over you and tortures you 24 hrs a day? You must be aware by now that this God took on human flesh in order to keep you from the grip of hell and death. He suffered under his own creation in order to bring them out of the power of death, which came about by the dispicable sick piece of garbage we call satan.
Your still eating the fruit he's been dangling in front of man since time began, which is lies about the nature of GOD. :liar:
Doesnt make sense does it that God is the way you think he is. :nono:

[Cartesiantheater]

How can you say that he sends you to hell, then stands over you and tortures you 24 hrs a day? You must be aware by now that this God took on human flesh in order to keep you from the grip of hell and death. He suffered under his own creation in order to bring them out of the power of death, which came about by the dispicable sick piece of garbage we call satan.
Your still eating the fruit he's been dangling in front of man since time began, which is lies about the nature of GOD. :liar:
Doesnt make sense does it that God is the way you think he is. :nono:
Wait Jeff: You are aware that this salvation of yours depends on conversion, right? So what if you were born and raised in a Hindu nation? Are you at a fair playing field with someone born in, say, the US, one of the most fundemental Christian places on Earth? Hell no. You probably have a 99% chance of being Hindu if you're born in India... and therefore, before you're even out of the gates you have a 99% chance of going to Hell. And since God says, "I know you from the womb," it stands to reason that God puts you in the nation you are born in on purpose. And it then stands to reason that God is NOT FAIR AT ALL. And since we're dealing with ETERNAL TORTURE, how is God NOT a sick twisted bastard if the above is true? Care to explain that one away, Jeff?

[Assassin X]

This will probably end up going to the Religion forum but...

God gives you a choice. He knows the "right" path he wants you to make, he knows where the path leads and where the other ones lead. But its up to you to make it the decisions in your life to get there. So if your Hindu its up to you to say "I wonder if the christian god is real and mine is not." He doesn't place you anywhere. Yes were all "here" where we are meant to be but diffrent things can change that.

For instance. Before I was born he my dad had the choice the chance to bump into the guy at work and become christian. If he hadn't he would have stayed screwed up and not had me. And I would have not been born and god would have not my a chance to let me see my path is (if I choose it). Whatever I do will effect someone elses path, maybe my own kid if he is or isn't born.

Its all about choice. You'll probably say "Well you act like someone of a diffrent religion just switches!". It happens all the time. When you hear something better, something more real people come over. Our neighbors were islamic and moved here a few years ago. Right away the Jehova Witnesses came over their house and after about 3 visits converted them.

[Cartesiantheater]

Its all about choice. You'll probably say "Well you act like someone of a diffrent religion just switches!". It happens all the time. When you hear something better, something more real people come over. Our neighbors were islamic and moved here a few years ago. Right away the Jehova Witnesses came over their house and after about 3 visits converted them.
No, it doesn't happen all the time. The number of people who convert willingly are minute compared to the number that do not. But what I am going to say about it is this: Would you convert? What would it take for you to convert to Islam? You also have a choice; would you ever choose to abandon your faith? WARNING: OPINION ==> (btw, Hinduism is better than Christianity, so why don't you convert? It's better because no one goes to Hell, but everyone pays for their own little pissant sins simply by living life as it is (and it isn't even that bad anymore; according to a Hindu guest speaker at my college, the Caste system has been outlawed in most of India). There is no "smoking is a sin, because it destroys the temple, and therefore without blood sacrifice, you go to Hell for ETERNITY over cigarettes...")

But I suppose there is one question you guys have no way out of:

Is it fair that some people have an easy street to Christianity and some don't? How can a just God allow for that? Is he not all powerful?

<look, I'd lay off you guys if you just conceded one point: What if your God DOESN'T send people to Hell for not converting? What if instead, he judges non-Christians by their sincerity when they worship who they believe to be God? ISLAM is capable of this for the other monotheistic religions at least... why isn't Christianity? (OPINION again: One more religion, btw, that is better than Christianity, for the above reason; although Islam's ridiculous treatment of women nullifies this particular good concept)

[jeffweeder]

Care to explain that one away, Jeff?


"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.


So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs[8][Or attesting miracles ] that followed.

14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world[7][Lit inhabited earth ] as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. .................................................. ..................................

[Cartesiantheater]

.................................................. ..................................
dude... you totally DIDN'T provide an explanation for the question...

[Jupiter]

................................................ ..................................................

The end will come - the end of one story and the beginning of another.

Not the end of all.

[jeffweeder]

can you rephrase the Qu?
People from all walks of life have believed this news about Jesus.
Dont know what else to say other than its impossible for God to do the wrong thing

[Assassin X]

I like Jeffs answer personally. And really like I have been told by various scholars, my fav though:

"Its not your job to prove and to answer others. God has it laid out, your just a human and don't know it all and others expect you to because they don't understand it just like you don't either. And because of this you will mess up because you don't know what God does, and when you do they will use it against you."

Which is true. I can't answer anything perfectly, only the best I can and most of the time it probably is wrong in one way or another because I have no idea what God would say. I am just a crappy human with a bashed in brain (literally). But I try non the less and will do as such:

First you asked could I switch to another side? Well first if I ever felt my faith (christianity) wasn't real then yes. But since I fell and know its because I beleive everything happened in the Bible and he exists then for right now, no, I couldn't switch. And for right now I have seen tons and tons of religions and they all have way to many flaws that make them unbelieveable. Such as the jewish religion (just using as an example, not a personal attack) there are parts of it when they explain god that don't make sense at all but they tend to avoid some questions so that tells me its not a real religion. Hence I feel mines the only real one.


Is it fair that some people have an easy street to Christianity and some don't? How can a just God allow for that? Is he not all powerful?
isn't that like asking "is it fair that Bill Gates or Donald Trump don't give me $1000?". Just because someone is one of the most powerful men doesn't mean he should make everything the same for everyone. Its like the quesiton of why doesn't he reveal himself, because there would be no point in beleiveing in him, no point in "doing good". Youd be like "Yeah, I don't need to go to church, I knows hes real".



<look, I'd lay off you guys if you just conceded one point: What if your God DOESN'T send people to Hell for not converting? What if instead, he judges non-Christians by their sincerity when they worship who they believe to be God?
Well if he does I guess I will find out when I die. But as for now I beleive what he says. And actually he does judge christians for their sincerity...sort of. Its kind of a "whole package". He judges our whole lives, we just get less rewards when we get to heaven if we didn't do what we were suppose to. Of course people will get confused when I say "rewards" but long explanation.

[Cartesiantheater]

And for right now I have seen tons and tons of religions and they all have way to many flaws that make them unbelieveable. Such as the jewish religion (just using as an example, not a personal attack) there are parts of it when they explain god that don't make sense at all but they tend to avoid some questions so that tells me its not a real religion. Hence I feel mines the only real one. Well, that's all well and good, but YOUR religion has things that don't make sense as well (hence the question that you guys CAN'T answer)



isn't that like asking "is it fair that Bill Gates or Donald Trump don't give me $1000?". Just because someone is one of the most powerful men doesn't mean he should make everything the same for everyone. No, and here's why. Bill Gates isn't supposed to be all loving, is he? Nor is he supposed to just. But God is. Remember, "God is not a respector of persons."



Its like the quesiton of why doesn't he reveal himself, because there would be no point in beleiveing in him, no point in "doing good". Youd be like "Yeah, I don't need to go to church, I knows hes real". But have you thought about all the evil that would vanish? Sure, if God is interested in faith, then that would be a bad thing. BUt which is more important? Faith or Happiness and Love?




Well if he does I guess I will find out when I die. But as for now I beleive what he says. And actually he does judge christians for their sincerity.
Well, I was talking about him judging NON-Christians for their sincerity. If he does that, I'll lay off. Now, somewhere in one of the Corinthians it says, "Because they know, they are guilty of sin." Perhaps the reverse is also true? "If they do not know, they are not guilty." If it's like that, I"ll lay off of your God.

[Cartesiantheater]

can you rephrase the Qu?
People from all walks of life have believed this news about Jesus.
Dont know what else to say other than its impossible for God to do the wrong thing
Here you go:

So what if you were born and raised in a Hindu nation? Are you at a fair playing field with someone born in, say, the US, one of the most fundemental Christian places on Earth? Hell no. You probably have a 99% chance of being Hindu if you're born in India... and therefore, before you're even out of the gates you have a 99% chance of going to Hell.

The question is, if where you're born correlates with whether or not you go to Hell (which it does), then how is this game fair? How can a just God set it up so that your odds of going to Hell depend on where you are born?

[jeffweeder]

So what if you were born and raised in a Hindu nation? Are you at a fair playing field with someone born in, say, the US, one of the most fundemental Christian places on Earth?

How old is the Us of A.?
THEYVE ( others) had a sh load more time to adjust. but here we have a young vibrant nation of the Us of A ,that was founded on Christian principles. Why?
Heck, even the Jews had trouble adgusting to their own God in the form of Christ.
A level playing feild from this prospective, as the Jews were looking looking looking for it---and still missed it...crucified it even. they we told about it, but missed the boat.


The question is, if where you're born correlates with whether or not you go to Hell (which it does), then how is this game fair? How can a just God set it up so that your odds of going to Hell depend on where you are born?

This is ridiculous, it doesnt. He was sent to his own even ,and they crucified him. Speak to Islamists or hindus and they seem to see him as a good prophet , more than what he was to the Jews perception of him. They(Jews) had been encouraged through the scriptures to get ready for him. and still couldnt see it.
The disciples were told to wait, until the Spirit was come upon them.
The miricles was what convinced people, and the recieving of the Spirit is a genuine thing-If this happens to you , youll know what i mean.
God does still perform these things - Ive seen it myself.

I'm still a barstard sometimes though...

[lazserus]

This thread obviously leaned away from its original intent. Dutchie more or less cleared the issue up with his first post. After that, things ran away.

I closed the thread because there was no reason for it to continue.

AX, your reasons for delivering this feedback are not without merit, however we all must remember that the pendulum swings both ways. I have personally seen Christians insult nonChristians in the Religion forum. Granted, Christians aren't as blunt as nonChristians, but the insults carry just as much weight.

To appease those who question the length or extent of AO's rules, I will attempt to break things down.

Armageddon Online's original rule set was written by several people dispersed all over the globe. Due to the fact we were all from different cultures and backgrounds, we came together and decided on a set of rules that would function and protect ALL members, regardless of their place of origin. The new rules merely are a more advanced version of the original set of rules put into place for this site.

Rules are set into place and are static. Those who enforce the rules are dynamic, and interpret the rules differently. What one would call bashing, another would not. The AX perspective does not coincide with the AO rules. Therefore, to the unfortune of AX and those in his realm of thought, the AO staff will not pay special attention, and/or, edit the Religion forum's threads just to hopefully please a few Christians. The Religion forum's original design was to discuss all religions, yet it's a Christian driven forum. Considering there's no real room for variety amongst those who participate in that forum, I'd say it's not so bad if a few insult those who control the environment.

The Religion forum is controlled by Christians. Those who post nonChristian ideals get shunned by the majority. I think there is room for flexibility. Since nonChristians get insulted or shunned, it wouldn't hurt devouts to get chewed out once in a while.

Thread is done. AX, if you have more concerns, PM or email me and I will look into them.

Regardless of forum and/or topic, if someone is clearly violating our rules or making anyone uncomfortable, please use the Report option. Every member can report a post.