Will I go to Hell?

[MaximumPain]

Will I go to Hell?

I believe that there is some kind of higher power, not with all my heart but lets just say it’s over 50%. I believe this being is sentient, had some kind of hand in creating and developing the life that is on earth including the human race, and still exists in some form today. I also believe that there have been several great people who have helped to enlighten the human race like Jesus Christ, Buddha, ect. I was raised as a Christian and also have some experience with a sect of Christianity called messianic Judaism. I have tried to read the Bible but have only managed to get through 2 New Testament books and some Old Testament passages. Several times I have said the prayer to accept Jesus into my heart but have always had trouble believing that he was the son of God, would save my mortal soul from the pits of hell, and that the Bible is the absolute unchanged my man word of God. My question is how much belief does it take to not go to hell? If I believe that the Bible has been changed by man to suit political power holding ends and is no longer the unaltered word of God does that sentence me to eternal damnation in the lake of fire? How about if I’m not sure that I believe that Jesus is/was the son of God?

[darlingnikki]

what about your faith? What is that in? I have a hard time myself believing that God would send seekers to hell. The next time you go to read the Bible, with a humble heart , prayerfuly ask Jesus to shed some light on it and he will.

[Perfectionist]

Dude, if you are a good person and live a good life ...... you are fine .....

[evilwill]

I think you're right to question the bible. It's highly improbable the exact meaning would have survived a genuine translation, let alone avoided intentional tampering by those that translated it.

I can't answer your question though as I don't have any belief in such.

[UVsaturated]

I feel sympathy for you. I used to have those kinds of thoughts about my faith when I was a teenager. It is because your faith isn't on a solid foundation, or in otherwords you aren't fully convinced of the truth about God.

It isn't a matter of finding tangible evidence either, because there is none. Many will tell you that Jesus lived and died, and to accept this is fine, so long as you honestly believe it you will have the faith in what it says that all sins have been paid for in full (which means salvation for all/no hell). But I am sure over time and even now you may understand that there is very little evidence if any that the gospel accounts actually happened the way they did and this makes it ever more difficult to embrace faith in God.

I would only tell you to always trust the idea of how a father who loves his children would treat them. If it is possible for a human father to love his child even if the child does wrong, and not condemn him/her, then it is no greater of a leap to believe that God does the same. The lie is anything contrary to this that God sends the wicked to hell. The priests in Jesus day argued the same way that the wicked die for their sins and will be condemned in the afterlife.

It sometimes takes a while - years for me. Don't be fooled into thinking that the sinners prayer will make you feel saved and happy the moment you say it. That isn't always true, though televangelists speak that it is like some magic trick that instantly heals you. It takes time to find the truth when it is hidden so well and many powers are trying to keep us from it.

:2thumbs:

[Fut004]

what about your faith? What is that in? I have a hard time myself believing that God would send seekers to hell. The next time you go to read the Bible, with a humble heart , prayerfuly ask Jesus to shed some light on it and he will.

Don't you watch SouthPark?
Unless you're a Morman, you're going to hell.

[Raptor Witness]

Failure to believe in the trial or court, will not keep you from it. You are going to need a lawyer at your trial. You can choose to defend yourself, or Jesus can be your lawyer. It's that simple.

The thief who got delivered never attended any church, but why wait until you're falling from a ten story building to ask for free legal advise? The cross is your ticket to paradise, INSTEAD of the flames. It's a simple story with a good ending.
Live forever or die forever. It's a serious proposition. Don't believe ... die forever, believe and live forever, no compromise.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/90/278513552_1b3020581f.jpg

[Traveler]

We all start off in a situation where we are all cut off from God, We are born into a fallen world.

Being a good person just makes you a good person, it doesn’t connect you to God.

The death penalty hangs over this world and all who are in it, But if somebody who is innocent takes your punishment for you and dies in your place then the punishment has been handed down and you are free to go because you will not be punished for the same thing twice. This is what is meant by being redeemed from the curse of the law.

Now this is the provision that God has made for man because man is not able to come to God himself. But to take advantage of this provision is going to cost you. You are required to accept Christ as your Lord or King. In return he becomes your savior. But as your King you are required to submit yourself to his authority and leadership.

This will also cost you in another area as well. Just as the world rejected and hated Christ so it will reject and hate you as well because you are now aligned with him. In effect, to accept Christ is to renounce your earthly citizenship. From here on out the world will do you no favors.

So ask yourself, Where does your loyalty lie? Are you prepared to pay the price. You will have to pay it to receive the reward. But the reward is eternal life.

[MaximumPain]

I feel sympathy for you. I used to have those kinds of thoughts about my faith when I was a teenager. It is because your faith isn't on a solid foundation, or in otherwords you aren't fully convinced of the truth about God.

The truth about God changes for different people and their religious beliefs. As a matter of faith it is hard for any one with a skeptical mind to just accept that one way is the absolute and only truth.



It isn't a matter of finding tangible evidence either, because there is none. Many will tell you that Jesus lived and died, and to accept this is fine, so long as you honestly believe it you will have the faith in what it says that all sins have been paid for in full (which means salvation for all/no hell). But I am sure over time and even now you may understand that there is very little evidence if any that the gospel accounts actually happened the way they did and this makes it ever more difficult to embrace faith in God.

I would only tell you to always trust the idea of how a father who loves his children would treat them. If it is possible for a human father to love his child even if the child does wrong, and not condemn him/her, then it is no greater of a leap to believe that God does the same. The lie is anything contrary to this that God sends the wicked to hell. The priests in Jesus day argued the same way that the wicked die for their sins and will be condemned in the afterlife.

It sometimes takes a while - years for me. Don't be fooled into thinking that the sinners prayer will make you feel saved and happy the moment you say it. That isn't always true, though televangelists speak that it is like some magic trick that instantly heals you. It takes time to find the truth when it is hidden so well and many powers are trying to keep us from it.

:2thumbs:

I often wonder if those who have a lot of faith that Jesus is the one way to salvation ever have doubts? I am fairly sure that they do but in church no one ever talks about those doubts and every one acts like they are completely sure. A friend once told me that it is not bad to question the truth of all of it as long as you continue to seek God. If God loves us unconditionally as a human father should try to love their earthly child then very few people will go to hell. And it will not be based simply on belief in Jesus.

[MaximumPain]

Failure to believe in the trial or court, will not keep you from it. You are going to need a lawyer at your trial. You can choose to defend yourself, or Jesus can be your lawyer. It's that simple.

The thief who got delivered never attended any church, but why wait until you're falling from a ten story building to ask for free legal advise? The cross is your ticket to paradise, INSTEAD of the flames. It's a simple story with a good ending.
Live forever or die forever. It's a serious proposition. Don't believe ... die forever, believe and live forever, no compromise.


I will accept the representation of Jesus if he will give it but you talk about belief as if it’s all or nothing. I wonder how many people harbor doubts about their faith? It’s hard to accept that a loving God would send people to hell for not believing in Jesus or not worshiping a certain way. It’s this very line of reasoning that turns me off to the Bible and Christianity in general.

My mother was a very good person she would help people she didn’t know with no expectation of payment, she donated to and worked at a food shelf but she did not believe in the divinity of Jesus and in fact attended an agnostic church. According to the Christen belief she is in hell right now because she didn’t accept Jesus. I’m not sure I would want to go to a heaven where many good people couldn’t get in and I surly wouldn’t want to worship a God that sentenced people to eternal torture based on a belief.

[MaximumPain]

We all start off in a situation where we are all cut off from God, We are born into a fallen world.

Being a good person just makes you a good person, it doesn’t connect you to God.

The death penalty hangs over this world and all who are in it, But if somebody who is innocent takes your punishment for you and dies in your place then the punishment has been handed down and you are free to go because you will not be punished for the same thing twice. This is what is meant by being redeemed from the curse of the law.


So my original sin was being born? Does that mean that all infants who die get sent to Hell because they never had a chance to accept Jesus?



Now this is the provision that God has made for man because man is not able to come to God himself. But to take advantage of this provision is going to cost you. You are required to accept Christ as your Lord or King. In return he becomes your savior. But as your King you are required to submit yourself to his authority and leadership.

This will also cost you in another area as well. Just as the world rejected and hated Christ so it will reject and hate you as well because you are now aligned with him. In effect, to accept Christ is to renounce your earthly citizenship. From here on out the world will do you no favors.



I think Christians have it pretty good in this world most of the richest countries and people in the world are mostly Christian. It seems to me that Moslems, Buddhists, and tribal pagans are the worst off living in some of the poorest war torn countries often wondering how to feed their children today. I don’t buy the whole “Christians are persecuted” line it seems there are lots of people being persecuted and while some of them are indeed Christians there are many others who are persecuted but don’t have the means to complain.



So ask yourself, Where does your loyalty lie? Are you prepared to pay the price. You will have to pay it to receive the reward. But the reward is eternal life.

Loyalty is earned not blindly given. If God is loving and good my loyalties will lie with him. If he sends people to hell for not believing then I guess I’ll be seeing most of you in hell. :52:

[Raptor Witness]

I will accept the representation of Jesus if he will give it but you talk about belief as if it’s all or nothing. I wonder how many people harbor doubts about their faith? It’s hard to accept that a loving God would send people to hell for not believing in Jesus or not worshiping a certain way. It’s this very line of reasoning that turns me off to the Bible and Christianity in general.

My mother was a very good person she would help people she didn’t know with no expectation of payment, she donated to and worked at a food shelf but she did not believe in the divinity of Jesus and in fact attended an agnostic church. According to the Christen belief she is in hell right now because she didn’t accept Jesus. I’m not sure I would want to go to a heaven where many good people couldn’t get in and I surly wouldn’t want to worship a God that sentenced people to eternal torture based on a belief.

The Kingdom of God isn't a democrazy. It isn't a story that we write the ending to. Hell is simply being separated from the Creator. The eternal fire is a symbol of forever gone, not punishment per se.

This is a story about a guy who created a universe where He makes the rules, and in some sense He is a "guy" like you and me, because He appeared to us in our form. He is the only ticket out of the dust that are these bodies. If you ask why your Mom isn't going to Heaven, but you find a better Mom on the other side, how foolish will it seem to have found this out too late?

The Kingdom of God is a family of lucky people, and you are lucky to hear the name Jesus Christ, at all.

[Godsgifttomankind]

I would think that it is time to look at things from a logical perspective and examine the world around us to understand the ways of it's creator.

Hell and the fires of hell or the lake of fire is a metaphor for the heat that comes on when one has to answer for the choices that they make.

Every action that you take produces an end result and there is no way of escaping the consequences of a poor choice or poor logic.

If you believe that you can fly and jump out of a plane without a parachute then you are going to be in hot water.

To think that there is anyone that will be exempt from living within the laws of the world of existence, that there is a get out of this world unchanged pass is totally illogical.

Raptor Witness do not be so quick in accusing others, without first being sure that you are not in contempt of Court. The Pharisees believed that they were in possesion of a pass that made them above the law as well and when the truth was presented to them they were found in contempt of Court.

The Court is a place where evidence is presented and the jury must make a decision as to the validity of that evidence, Maximumpain is a part of that jury and is weighing every piece of evidence that has been presented and is making the most logical decision.

Have you ever asked yourself how much evidence are you examining, is what I believe in evidence based?

Asking questions is the means by which the Truth is discovered, not asking questions is the means by which ignorance prevails.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.


The word that I have highlighted is reprove and the only way that you can reprove something is to question it's authenticity.

God rewards those that act faithfully and in order to be faithful you have to know that the actions that you are taking are what it is that God wants you to do. The only way that you can be certain is to be reproved and the only way to be reproved is to be able to receive the answer to your questions.

Maximumpain seek the truth and do what it is that you know is right, the trials and tribulations of life will refine you and show you the Truth, just as the refiner's fire purifies those elements that are placed in it by burning off the impurities.

I can guarantee that not just you but everyone has a taste of the lake of fire, I speak of this from my own experience, it is not something to be feared but it is something that you must understand and be willing to set yourself before.

[Raptor Witness]

Raptor Witness do not be so quick in accusing others, without first being sure that you are not in contempt of Court. The Pharisees believed that they were in possesion of a pass that made them above the law as well and when the truth was presented to them they were found in contempt of Court.

I'm not accusing anyone. I'm telling the truth. I identify another way of looking at the world, and you call it an accusation?
The world is in the shape it is now, because nobody is saying anything to change it. You have all these Christians saying to themselves ... "dare I throw a stone first?" In so doing they admit they are in league with the Devil to start with! Throwing a stone to spark a debate isn't "contempt" in this age. The accused have spoken against themselves already here, and they know it. I am already dead to this world, so I can say what I please, generally. Whatever plank I have already removed from my own eye, I may speak about. This generation removes NOTHING!

I promise you, when the Lord of the Garden comes to displace the current ruler and thief, you will realize how blind you were, for your lukewarm behavior is what has led to control of the Beast and False Prophet over you. How will you explain to the Lord why you have allowed the garden to be taken over by thieves and murderers? Will you say, "we were afraid to accuse anyone?" He will throw you into the flames first!

Repent and throw a few stones, show the Master that you care about His garden, and He'll put you in charge of many things. You have taken a few choice words and deluded the audience into believing they have no power over their captor. THAT is the lukewarm speech and thought that Jesus spits out of His own mouth at the end of the age. That is the reason for the first statement in my signature. You have castrated the Body of Christ with your fear of the Devil. Die to this world first, and then you don't need to fear the Devil anymore. I don't need to accuse you of anything, you have already accused yourself.

[Demonskates]

Will I go to Hell?

I believe that there is some kind of higher power, not with all my heart but lets just say it’s over 50%. I believe this being is sentient, had some kind of hand in creating and developing the life that is on earth including the human race, and still exists in some form today. I also believe that there have been several great people who have helped to enlighten the human race like Jesus Christ, Buddha, ect. I was raised as a Christian and also have some experience with a sect of Christianity called messianic Judaism. I have tried to read the Bible but have only managed to get through 2 New Testament books and some Old Testament passages. Several times I have said the prayer to accept Jesus into my heart but have always had trouble believing that he was the son of God, would save my mortal soul from the pits of hell, and that the Bible is the absolute unchanged my man word of God. My question is how much belief does it take to not go to hell? If I believe that the Bible has been changed by man to suit political power holding ends and is no longer the unaltered word of God does that sentence me to eternal damnation in the lake of fire? How about if I’m not sure that I believe that Jesus is/was the son of God?
Man,that about sums up where im at with it all,i think there is somthing,but dont proclaim to know what that is.I was forced to go to a private Christian school.I hated it.I made sure they all knew i hated it.we were interdenominational,so there was alot of conflicting views.it sucked.As far as hell,who knows.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Raptor Witness and thank-you for your frankness,

I'm not accusing anyone. I'm telling the truth. I identify another way of looking at the world, and you call it an accusation?

You say that you know the TRUTH but what evidence do you have to prove that claim, what have you got to prove that what you are saying is any better than what anyone else has to offer?


The world is in the shape it is now, because nobody is saying anything to change it. You have all these Christians saying to themselves ... "dare I throw a stone first?" In so doing they admit they are in league with the Devil to start with! Throwing a stone to spark a debate isn't "contempt" in this age. The accused have spoken against themselves already here, and they know it. I am already dead to this world, so I can say what I please, generally. Whatever plank I have already removed from my own eye, I may speak about. This generation removes NOTHING!

The world is in need of a great physician as you have so well stated, one that has a healing medicine to offer the entire world and breath a new life into this world. The word of God is that healing medicine and it brings about the rest that a body needs fo healing. It is a truth that resonates with every soul and offers an answer to every question.

Christ is perfect and his example is perfect and when he was given the opportunity to cast the first stone he did not but offered an alternative. Your desire to cast stones as opposed to offering LOVE to those that need it the most seems to be in contradiction to what Christ had to say.


I promise you, when the Lord of the Garden comes to displace the current ruler and thief, you will realize how blind you were, for your lukewarm behavior is what has led to control of the Beast and False Prophet over you. How will you explain to the Lord why you have allowed the garden to be taken over by thieves and murderers? Will you say, "we were afraid to accuse anyone?" He will throw you into the flames first!

The King of kings has thrown me into the flames and taught me how he desires that I should treat every one of his children, he has opened my eyes to his understanding and given me the evidence that is needed to understand everything about all of these subjects that you speak of.

He has clearly laid out everything when he returned to heal the world and to bring about heaven on earth, he has made it clear how he wants his garden organized and given us the blueprint for the healing of the whole of humanity.

He has given the tools that are needed to bring about world peace and has made it clear that all peoples have been chosen to play their part.

He has made it clear that he is the God of the Hindu's and the God of the Buddhists, that there is only one God and that the whole of mankind worship Him.

That the whole of mankind are His children and that only when the intolerance of elitism gives way to tolerance, respect and true understanding will humanity live in peace.

He has also made it very clear that while you worship Him, you have an estranged relationship and do not really know who He is. His desire is that you give up your vain imaginings and your own desires and focus on His WILL.


Repent and throw a few stones, show the Master that you care about His garden, and He'll put you in charge of many things. You have taken a few choice words and deluded the audience into believing they have no power over their captor. THAT is the lukewarm speech and thought that Jesus spits out of His own mouth at the end of the age. That is the reason for the first statement in my signature.



You have castrated the Body of Christ with your fear of the Devil. Die to this world first, and then you don't need to fear the Devil anymore. I don't need to accuse you of anything, you have already accused yourself.

[Raptor Witness]

Hello Raptor Witness and thank-you for your frankness.
You are lukewarm and you make me sick. I'm not Jesus, but I understand now what He meant. It's the same ol' "love to love you baby," crap that has gotten us into trouble. How is it that this Island of Christians has become the throne of Satan?
You have loved everybody, and the Devil most of all. That's why he's in charge. The enemy isn't in Iraq, the enemy sells more weapons of violence than anyone else, and then plays the world's policeman, but that's "Ok," as long as we're all "love to love you babying."

Jesus is so pissed. I feel for the lukewarm when He returns, I really do. He may scold me for saying it, but I refuse to be in this lukewarm camp.

Ezekiel 28:16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.(planets ... solar system)

Answer me this, if there is no business in Heaven, then where can this be? Who else has reached the solar system, such that it has now claimed it as its [own turf?] (http://forums.armageddononline.org/showthread.php?t=9247)

Ezekiel 28:5 By your great skill in trading
you have increased your wealth,
and because of your wealth
your heart has grown proud.

Keep on "love to love you babying," everybody and everything and see what happens, because you have fallen in love with the wrong master.

[Sammy56]

Repent and throw a few stones You are doing exactly what the person you claim to idolize told you not to do. Whatever happened to "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?

[Smoke]

yup your goin to hell, no questions about it see ya there.

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Raptor Witness and thank-you for your surety of my tepidness,

You are lukewarm and you make me sick. I'm not Jesus, but I understand now what He meant. It's the same ol' "love to love you baby," crap that has gotten us into trouble.

Your anger and nausea is something that I can understand and your desire to wake people up from their indifference to what is going on in the world is commendable, for this is what God is asking all of His servants to do. My only point was that the very force that you are trying to fight can not be destroyed by lowering yourself to their level.

If you want to destroy that which you despise the most, you have to use the example that Christ has given you and be Christ like in your actions and you have to do what Christ has asked you to do.

Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.


How is it that this Island of Christians has become the throne of Satan?

You see the problem but do you understand the solution?

Christianity has walked the same course as the followers of Moses and have fallen as did the followers of Adam.

When God came to correct them and return them unto the straight path they listened not because they followed their own desires and turned their backs on God.


You have loved everybody, and the Devil most of all. That's why he's in charge. The enemy isn't in Iraq, the enemy sells more weapons of violence than anyone else, and then plays the world's policeman, but that's "Ok," as long as we're all "love to love you babying."

I have looked the son's of Satan in the eye and showed them the error of their ways and asked God to rebuke them so that they may see the light and come out of the darkness that they so desire. I have no problem loving them for they are the children of God and have come into a world that has made them who they are and has left them blind to the fact that they call ignorance truth, condemning the world and believing that God has no power to deliver the world from the grasp of ignorance.


Jesus is so pissed. I feel for the lukewarm when He returns, I really do. He may scold me for saying it, but I refuse to be in this lukewarm camp.

It is time to wake up and understand that Christ has already returned and get yourself out of that lukewarm and enter into the Kingdom of God. Stop sitting on the fence and examine the evidence and then you may begin to understand just how deep the deception goes.

[Raptor Witness]

You are doing exactly what the person you claim to idolize told you not to do. Whatever happened to "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?
I'm not saying that you have to hit the patient. Just rattle her cage a little. She's sleeping with the enemy. What's better, to let the patient die or wake her up in advance of the coming deluge?

You take one scene from the Bible and build an entire false belief system. You absolve yourselves of all responsibility for speaking the truth, because you claim it's a stone in your hand.

[Sammy56]

You take one scene from the Bible and build an entire false belief system. And you ignore one scene from the Bible and build an entire false belief system. Unfortunately, you are ignoring one of the most important lessons Christ taught. You judge other people that you don't even know. You are very quick to condemn those who disagree with you.

[Raptor Witness]

And you ignore one scene from the Bible and build an entire false belief system. Unfortunately, you are ignoring one of the most important lessons Christ taught. You judge other people that you don't even know. You are very quick to condemn those who disagree with you.
The most important? This thread isn't about forgiveness Sammy. Perhaps you should start at the beginning. I am condemning no one. I'm theorizing the possible outcome of not having an attorney at the Judgment. God'sgift side tracked me a little, I admit, but I'm so sick of this lukewarm lovey dubby crap, when we've just murdered half a million souls on the other side of the planet. It's disgusting and the lovey dubby crowd are what have allowed it to happen. That includes anyone who says, "the most important lesson is not judging anyone." That's how we ended up with King George. The lovey dubby crowd sure was quick to judge Bill Clinton, but they are stead fatly behind the Devil himself.

I tell you this. This very night I will throw rocks into the sky that will land someplace on earth with a thud, but no one will be harmed. Yet, can the same be said of those who claim Jesus as their Savior in the United States? The souls of half a million lives lost in Iraq will be heard in Heaven. Let their voices thunder a warning to the inhabitants of Babylon. Let the thud of rocks falling to the earth be remembered by this generation, as a testimony to the innocent dead.

[darlingnikki]

It is time to wake up and understand that Christ has already returned and get yourself out of that lukewarm and enter into the Kingdom of God. Stop sitting on the fence and examine the evidence and then you may begin to understand just how deep the deception goes.

Perhaps You,GGTM, should do some searching likewise and see what the "real" deception is.


For many shall come in my name saying lo he is here or there, or he's already come back...

[Raptor Witness]

So I threw five rocks southeast into the night sky, in the direction of Orion, one for each hundred thousand innocent dead in Iraq. Two stones landed in the water, the rest on the earth. The sound of two shall carry a great distance.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/370022255_bfe89e1b55_o.jpg

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Darlingnikki and thank-you for your very valid points,

Perhaps You,GGTM, should do some searching likewise and see what the "real" deception is.

You are very right that it is important to search out the truth of all things and to be sure that that which you believe is based upon clear and concise evidence.

I have asked that question many times have I been deceived and I have searched extensively to test the truth and found that in each case I have come to the same conclusion, that everything is in keeping with that which has been written.


For many shall come in my name saying lo he is here or there, or he's already come back...

You have mentioned the first part of the warning but you have not followed up with the testing of the spirit.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Christ warned that if anyone comes in the name of Christ do not listen but I am not coming in the name of Christ but in the Glory of the Father.

Christ was able to give this warning because in Revelation He tells us that when he returns that he will have a new name and so those coming in the name of Christ thus will be fraudulent.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

And from Isaiah 62:1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.

62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

62:3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.

[darlingnikki]

Hello GGTM, and thank you for your interpretation of the scriptures.
Having had the experience of both sides, I am here to tell you, there is somehing wrong with the one world unification movement. I can go into detail about this if you so desire, but rest assured, there is something wrong!


Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

[Stabby Joe]

People who think about hell to much forget they're supposed to believe in heaven... but nooooo, its all about hell for some (usually preachers lol).

[Fut004]

It's the only way to get people to believe in Religion... Through Scare Tactics.
Much like the US government is getting people to believe and support their wars, more Scare Tactics.

[JenaS62]

Will I go to Hell?

I believe that there is some kind of higher power, not with all my heart but lets just say it’s over 50%. I believe this being is sentient, had some kind of hand in creating and developing the life that is on earth including the human race, and still exists in some form today. I also believe that there have been several great people who have helped to enlighten the human race like Jesus Christ, Buddha, ect. I was raised as a Christian and also have some experience with a sect of Christianity called messianic Judaism. I have tried to read the Bible but have only managed to get through 2 New Testament books and some Old Testament passages. Several times I have said the prayer to accept Jesus into my heart but have always had trouble believing that he was the son of God, would save my mortal soul from the pits of hell, and that the Bible is the absolute unchanged my man word of God. My question is how much belief does it take to not go to hell? If I believe that the Bible has been changed by man to suit political power holding ends and is no longer the unaltered word of God does that sentence me to eternal damnation in the lake of fire? How about if I’m not sure that I believe that Jesus is/was the son of God?


I think you raise a very good point. Pretty much you are what you are because of where you were you were born. If you were born in Iran - you are more than likely Muslim. If you where born in India - you are more than likely Hindu. If you are of European descent - you are more than likely Christian. So why do Christians believe that only Christians will get in to heaven? That leaves out a lot of people on this earth. I'm agnostic - but if there is a God and Jesus was really his son - I find this hard to believe that a huge number of people on Earth are doomed to hell because of where they were born. Perhaps this contributes to me being agnositc.

I had a strict Christian tell me that unless you have accepted Christ as your savior, you are not going to heaven. I asked "well what about babies that die - are they going to hell?". I was told yes. I stay away from religion.

[Sammy56]

It's the only way to get people to believe in Religion... Through Scare Tactics. You're right. I find it really sad when religious people feel the only way to win converts is to try and make people afraid of God. That's all they are doing. It's all very hypocritical to me.


I admit, but I'm so sick of this lukewarm lovey dubby crap, when we've just murdered half a million souls on the other side of the planet. It's disgusting and the lovey dubby crowd are what have allowed it to happen. I am not saying that we shouldn't punish people who do something wrong. Murders, rapists, and the like should be punished. But it is not for you to condemn someone, and that is what you do. You tell people they are going to go to hell. That is what I mean by judging, and that is what Jesus meant by casting the first stone.

[Demonskates]

You're right. I find it really sad when religious people feel the only way to win converts is to try and make people afraid of God. That's all they are doing. It's all very hypocritical to me.
I agree.After five years in a Christian school,i saw way to much hypocracy.All these folks think they know whats coming.They think they are untouchable.That they will be in heaven.That they are better than everyone else.The road to hell is paved with those Christians.They point their fingers at others without realizing that three fingers are pointing back at them.I never met more self righteous,pityless,preachy,im better than thou,stone throwing Mother F-ers than in that school.To be honest,if hell is where there is no Christians,Ill go to hell in an asbestos tuxedo laughing the whole way down. To me,Hell is anywhere you have to listen to that Holier than thou Christian B.S. for more than 3 minutes at a time. :burnin:

[jeffweeder]

Vicous ,nasty stuff when one gets religous.

You know that some who call themselves "christian" Arent.
Christianity was never meant to be anything more than this story of JC.

I'm more than happy to see bullshit christianity exposed and pulled up by the roots,
i dont call myself the weeder for nothing.

How christians can think that they are better than anyone else is beyond me.
Jesus taught to consider others better than ourselves! Feed the hungry , be the good samaritan--to anyone. Christians should never look down (on anyone) but up.

All those that love this type of thing, and do these things for others are participating in his kingdom dont you think?

Those that dont think this way,- leave people to rot as they pass them by etc
well there is a kingdom for them to, well away from the good one.
The seperation is coming and we will have peace.-4ever.

Could anyone seriously see Jesus throwing a baby into hell?
No baby is going to hell- nothing in Jc behaviour would suggest that he would do such a thing.

The only time he breathed fire was against those religous nuts that didnt even recognise who he was-- he was the one they were waiting for..----same today

[Cartesiantheater]

It's the only way to get people to believe in Religion... Through Scare Tactics.
Much like the US government is getting people to believe and support their wars, more Scare Tactics.
That and brainwashing at the impressionable age...

[darlingnikki]

This is in response to all of those who are not Christian.....

First off, I am speaking from my own perspective and from fellow christians that I know, WE do not think we are Holy AT ALL ! Only God is Holy.We don NOT think we are better than ANY ONE ELSE! Matter of fact we are persueded to be humble! That is a FACT! Certainly not HOLIER than thou.

Secondly, we do NOT think That God sends babies to hell! Babies who die are AUTOMATICALLY sent to HEAVEN to be with GOD! ANY one who tells a different story is lying. Babies are not accountable to God, for ANYTHING!
There is an age that you get to, usually when you can understand the difference between right and wrong, that you become accountable, to God.

It IS a fact that if we "get on your nerves" It is a GOOD thing for us! Because we are called to be the salt of the earth and salt is irritating! We CONSIDER it a privilege when you all get in an uproar about us.. So keep it up!

[Cartesiantheater]

Secondly, we do NOT think That God sends babies to hell! Babies who die are AUTOMATICALLY sent to HEAVEN to be with GOD! ANY one who tells a different story is lying. Babies are not accountable to God, for ANYTHING!


But nikki, if babies go to heaven when they die, why be pro-life? If they're aborted, they have a 100% chance of going to heaven...

If they're born, you lower their chances by at least 50%

Isn't it better to abort them?

[darlingnikki]

Why don't you answer the question yourself? graphic pictures!

*pix removed

[Cartesiantheater]

Why don't you answer the question yourself? graphic pictures!
*pix removed
Yeah, but nikki, don't you agree that a painful and gruesome death is WORTH a guarantee into heaven?

[darlingnikki]

Yeah, but nikki, don't you agree that a painful and gruesome death is WORTH a guarantee into heaven?


No, because they never got the chance to choose! Any time after they are born, they can make a choice on which path they want to follow!

[Cartesiantheater]

No, because they never got the chance to choose! Any time after they are born, they can make a choice on which path they want to follow!
Yeah, but who in their right mind would CHOOSE Hell if they thought it was real?

More like they never get to GUESS...IMO

[jeffweeder]

C'MON CARTESIAN, f you were on the recieving end of this chain of thought ,youd fight it.
your obvious purpose is to be born and this is what you must do if you want to be what ever it is that you will be---you would want that chance-surely---shirley.

choose life---I want the chance first, before i'm terminated.

[Demonskates]

Vicous ,nasty stuff when one gets religous.

You know that some who call themselves "christian" Arent.
Christianity was never meant to be anything more than this story of JC.

I'm more than happy to see bullshit christianity exposed and pulled up by the roots,
i dont call myself the weeder for nothing.

How christians can think that they are better than anyone else is beyond me.
Jesus taught to consider others better than ourselves! Feed the hungry , be the good samaritan--to anyone. Christians should never look down (on anyone) but up.

All those that love this type of thing, and do these things for others are participating in his kingdom dont you think?

Those that dont think this way,- leave people to rot as they pass them by etc
well there is a kingdom for them to, well away from the good one.
The seperation is coming and we will have peace.-4ever.

Could anyone seriously see Jesus throwing a baby into hell?
No baby is going to hell- nothing in Jc behaviour would suggest that he would do such a thing.

The only time he breathed fire was against those religous nuts that didnt even recognise who he was-- he was the one they were waiting for..----same today
I hope folks dont think i feel like that about ALL Christians.Some are actually decent.My expiriences with the church and that school werent very good.They say all this stuff,yet non of them live what they say?Damn.not a good sales pitch.IM not saying i dont beleive in somthing.Logic tells me anyway,that there is.So I threw aside eveything everyone ever told me,I dont beleive you need a priest to tell you anything,or that you even need him to get to heavan.Or a church.Or a Defined religion where everyone beleives this faction or that one.Or that there is a hell,or the devil.We do this stuff.Not the devil.We do it.Its nice to blame somthing on Evil,Or The devil.But its us.Some have a stronger sense of whats right than others do.Thats about the only diffrence between any of us.Does that make us Evil?I dont think so.I think it makes some more wrong than others.We are people.And people act like people.Just like dogs act like dogs.Were this way because of whatever the chemicals in us dictate we'll be like.And whos to say whatever created us didnt make it that way?We all have choices.One thing,Or another.A big huge life long every second of every day of them.Some are gonna make a bunch of bad choices.Some are gonna make alot of o.k. choices.And some may do better than that.The devil dosent make anybody do anything.We choose to do that thing.Or not to do that thing.The people who arent making very good choices are either mentally incapable,or are not trying.Whatever created usdosent make you do anything either.whatever created us,lets us do for ourselves.LIke i cant remeber the last time the creator came in to me and said,"Hey Demonskates,is everything O.K.?OH,and by the way,it really pisses me off when your looking at the porn on the internet." SO here i am.Part way through,a life time,of either good or bad choices.And my choices have been less than exemplary,so no gold star for me.
Now i know some of you are gonna be like well what about adolf hitler blah blah blah.Thats not up to me.Thats however the creator in all his infinant wisdom decides to deal with it.The meaning of life is simple.Its all what you decide to do with it.Damn.Remind me not to smoke refer and get all deep and junk.

[darlingnikki]

Here is some "light" reading for you CT! If you aren't too upset about th Abortion pictures..


http://www.christian-thinktank.com/gr5part4.html

[Cartesiantheater]

What this issue concerns is basically "could we have even had all the Christians without the non-Christians being created?" in the actual world.

Hmm... that seems to prove to me that God really did in fact create evil... although perhapse for nobel purposes... because "could we have even had all the Good without all the non-Good being created?"

This also give me one hell of a problem with God...


(1') There are some possible persons who would not freely receive Christ under any circumstances.
(2') There is no possible world in which all persons would freely receive Christ.
(3') God holds that a world in which some persons freely reject Christ but the number of those who freely receive him is maximized is preferable to a world in which a few people receive Christ and none are lost.

Because this means that God KNOWS that some people will NEVER accept him... which means he KNOWS that by creating these people he is GUARANTEEING them eternal hell...

Now, about the abortion... what if they don't get their souls until they get their brains? Is it still horribly wrong in that scenario?

(btw, I am against late term abortions)

[Demonskates]

LET us consult the Golden Eagle!!!!!How say ye Splendiferous Eagle?

[jeffweeder]

Because this means that God KNOWS that some people will NEVER accept him... which means he KNOWS that by creating these people he is GUARANTEEING them eternal hell...

He didnt create them that way, free will took em away.

[darlingnikki]

Because this means that God KNOWS that some people will NEVER accept him... which means he KNOWS that by creating these people he is GUARANTEEING them eternal hell...that is true, so you have a problem w god? Take it up with him.




Now, about the abortion... what if they don't get their souls until they get their brains? Is it still horribly wrong in that scenario?

(btw, I am against late term abortions)

YES It is all wrong. end of story!
I have been crying for an hour and a half about this 1 picture!

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosbyage/images/08w-2002-08.jpg

how could you not be against ALL abortion?

[Raptor Witness]

I am not saying that we shouldn't punish people who do something wrong. Murders, rapists, and the like should be punished. But it is not for you to condemn someone, and that is what you do. You tell people they are going to go to hell. That is what I mean by judging, and that is what Jesus meant by casting the first stone.
I never said that anyone was "going" anyplace. I said that Hell was the separation from God. If you don't believe in Him, then what difference does it make? As far as I'm concerned, this is Hell. You are putting words in my mouth, and I don't appreciate it. I don't believe in a traditional "Hell." Jesus is a good lawyer, that's all I'm saying.

[Cartesiantheater]

that is true, so you have a problem w god? Take it up with him.



YES It is all wrong. end of story!
I have been crying for an hour and a half about this 1 picture!

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosbyage/images/08w-2002-08.jpg

how could you not be against ALL abortion?
I said HORRIBLY wrong...

and I also said I AM against THAT kind of abortion... let me rephrase what I said, as you clearly misunderstood it (this is probably my fault)..

I'm talking about abortions when it is just a few small cells... keep that in mind... there are no little feet, no litte fingers, no pain nerve endings, none of that...

Now assuming they don't have a soul WHEN THEY ARE LIKE SKIN CELLS and nothing more, is it still horribly wrong (again, assuming they don't have souls and are NOT in any resemblence to a human being at all- i.e. they are nothing but a few cells...

Now with that in mind, please answer my question, if you would be kind enough to...

[Sammy56]

I never said that anyone was "going" anyplace. Not directly, but you imply is quite often, especially if someone doesn't agree with you or understand all the weird riddles and pictures you post.

[JenaS62]

Why don't you answer the question yourself? graphic pictures!
*pix removed


These are horrible pictures. Although I am agnostic - I am prolife (for babies and pro-death penalty for those that deserve it). How anyone could do this to a baby is beyond me. For me, it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with what is right and what is wrong. This is just plain wrong.

[Cartesiantheater]

These are horrible pictures. Although I am agnostic - I am prolife (for babies and pro-death penalty for those that deserve it). How anyone could do this to a baby is beyond me. For me, it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with what is right and what is wrong. This is just plain wrong.

well, since you're non-religious...

What about abortions when the baby is just a blob of cells? (i.e. WAY before any nerve endings form... like when it is similar to one of your own skin cells...)

[JenaS62]

well, since you're non-religious...

What about abortions when the baby is just a blob of cells? (i.e. WAY before any nerve endings form... like when it is similar to one of your own skin cells...)


I have no problem with that. Morning after pill, very early term abortion such as what you described above - are fine.

[Raptor Witness]

This generation of Christians is so afraid of making Jesus unpopular or being criticized, that the Devil has become their best friend. The Devil is laughing at the lukewarm church because Jesus hates it.

Put away Horus and repent. Put away your desire to climb the Heavens with the sweat of your brow. Humble yourselves and the true Horus will lift you higher than any shuttle ever dreamed of flying.

[Cartesiantheater]

This generation of Christians is so afraid of making Jesus unpopular or being criticized, that the Devil has become their best friend. The Devil is laughing at the lukewarm church because Jesus hates it.

Put away Horus and repent. Put away your desire to climb the Heavens with the sweat of your brow. Humble yourselves and the true Horus will lift you higher than any shuttle ever dreamed of flying.

Yeah right dude... the church is poloraizing the country....

[Traveler]

This generation of Christians is so afraid of making Jesus unpopular or being criticized, that the Devil has become their best friend. The Devil is laughing at the lukewarm church because Jesus hates it.

Put away Horus and repent. Put away your desire to climb the Heavens with the sweat of your brow. Humble yourselves and the true Horus will lift you higher than any shuttle ever dreamed of flying.

I realy like that first part. Mind if I use you as a quote on other boards? It's just so true!

[Raptor Witness]

I realy like that first part. Mind if I use you as a quote on other boards? It's just so true!
Anything I say here or anywhere, is free food for thought. What "other boards" do you frequent Traveler, if you don't mind me asking? You can PM if you want.

[Ningishiddza]

Will I go to Hell?

Probably. Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing for certain.


I have tried to read the Bible but have only managed to get through 2 New Testament books and some Old Testament passages.

You missed the good stuff.


How about if I’m not sure that I believe that Jesus is/was the son of God?

It doesn't matter.

Whether you're going to heaven or hell was determined before you were born and there is no possible way to change your fate.

If Hitler was predestined for heaven, then that's where he is. If Mother Teresa was predestined for hell, then that's where she is.

You can get the gory details here:

Romans 9:11-22
Ephesians 1:4-5
Ephesians 1:11
1 Thessalonians 1:4
2 Thessalonians 2:13
2 Timothy 1:9
1 Peter 1:2

Remember, the bible is the complete and true word of god and never conflicts or contradicts, so live your life and have a good time because it doesn't matter what you do or believe.

[Sammy56]

I really really hope you are being sarcastic Ning.

[Traveler]

Probably. Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing for certain.



You missed the good stuff.



It doesn't matter.

Whether you're going to heaven or hell was determined before you were born and there is no possible way to change your fate.

If Hitler was predestined for heaven, then that's where he is. If Mother Teresa was predestined for hell, then that's where she is.

You can get the gory details here:

Romans 9:11-22
Ephesians 1:4-5
Ephesians 1:11
1 Thessalonians 1:4
2 Thessalonians 2:13
2 Timothy 1:9
1 Peter 1:2

Remember, the bible is the complete and true word of god and never conflicts or contradicts, so live your life and have a good time because it doesn't matter what you do or believe.

This is not correct in that the context needs to be taken into account.

The instruction to the disciples was to take the gospel of salvation out into all the world and preach it to every creature so that all may be saved.

Some will accept and some will reject but the offer is made to all.

In a nut shell this is what the message is.

This world and all the evil in it is destined to destruction. God has set up a provision where men can be saved from the coming destruction by implementing a plan of salvation where we can be redeemed or saved out of this world system.

Jesus said himself that his kingdom is not of this world. It is made up of those who have been redeemed from out of this world.

[Jupiter]

Will I go to Hell?

I believe that there is some kind of higher power, not with all my heart but lets just say it’s over 50%. I believe this being is sentient, had some kind of hand in creating and developing the life that is on earth including the human race, and still exists in some form today. I also believe that there have been several great people who have helped to enlighten the human race like Jesus Christ, Buddha, ect. I was raised as a Christian and also have some experience with a sect of Christianity called messianic Judaism. I have tried to read the Bible but have only managed to get through 2 New Testament books and some Old Testament passages. Several times I have said the prayer to accept Jesus into my heart but have always had trouble believing that he was the son of God, would save my mortal soul from the pits of hell, and that the Bible is the absolute unchanged my man word of God. My question is how much belief does it take to not go to hell? If I believe that the Bible has been changed by man to suit political power holding ends and is no longer the unaltered word of God does that sentence me to eternal damnation in the lake of fire? How about if I’m not sure that I believe that Jesus is/was the son of God?


You won't go to hell for not 100% certainty on the realities of Jesus. You can only go to hell if you lead a life that is on that road, you certainly don't.

[nrj]

He didnt create them that way, free will took em away. But God knew exactly what each person would do with his or her free will. Therefore, by creating Castro, he created a Cuba lead by a dictator. He knew what was coming.

[Ningishiddza]

I really really hope you are being sarcastic Ning.

No, I was being serious. Remember, the bible is the complete and true word of god and never conflicts or contradicts, so live your life and have a good time because it doesn't matter what you do or believe.





Giggle.

[Ningishiddza]

This is not correct in that the context needs to be taken into account.

The instruction to the disciples was to take the gospel of salvation out into all the world and preach it to every creature so that all may be saved.

Some will accept and some will reject but the offer is made to all.

In a nut shell this is what the message is.

This world and all the evil in it is destined to destruction. God has set up a provision where men can be saved from the coming destruction by implementing a plan of salvation where we can be redeemed or saved out of this world system.

Jesus said himself that his kingdom is not of this world. It is made up of those who have been redeemed from out of this world.

Well, let's compare your interpretation to some of the texts.

Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

That looks pretty straight forward to me. Not of works, but having been called, and having been called before you were born.

In fact, that is the principle tenet of Protestantism, and the cornerstone of the Lutheran, Calvinist and Presbyterian churches.

I guess if you're a McChristian you might want to ignore that, since it does put a damper on things.

If you remember your history of the Reformation, selling indulgences (paying for absolution from future sins with cash) was a lucrative business and Luther was a threat to that, especially with his Doctrine of Predestination.

That's why the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches don't do "confession." There's no point in it since you're already damned, or not.

[Cornish Maid]

But God knew exactly what each person would do with his or her free will. Therefore, by creating Castro, he created a Cuba lead by a dictator. He knew what was coming.

I suppose this be true.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060804-castro-legacy.html

[Traveler]

Well, let's compare your interpretation to some of the texts.

Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

That looks pretty straight forward to me. Not of works, but having been called, and having been called before you were born.

In fact, that is the principle tenet of Protestantism, and the cornerstone of the Lutheran, Calvinist and Presbyterian churches.

I guess if you're a McChristian you might want to ignore that, since it does put a damper on things.

If you remember your history of the Reformation, selling indulgences (paying for absolution from future sins with cash) was a lucrative business and Luther was a threat to that, especially with his Doctrine of Predestination.

That's why the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches don't do "confession." There's no point in it since you're already damned, or not.

Sorry but you are way off the mark here. This is pointing to the concept of grace. You are saved by grace not works. Salvation cannot be earned, it can only be accepted. You come to God as you are. The works you do for the kingdom only come later.

As for what the pope was doing, you know that it was wrong and motivated by greed and vanity. But just because the catholics messed up it does not mean that the original gospel is wrong.

[autryn2]

I am no judge... I can only show you what Jesus said about how He will judge the masses. From Matthew Chapter 25 (sorry if this has already been posted).
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31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."