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ryangt2
Feb 15th, 2007, 8:06 PM
Just in more evidence found


The long-term stability of the massive ice sheets of Antarctica, which have the potential to raise sea levels by hundreds of metres, has been called into question with the discovery of fast-moving rivers of water sliding beneath their base.

Scientists analysing satellite data were astonished to discover the size of the vast lakes and river systems flowing beneath the Antarctic ice sheets, which may lubricate the movement of these glaciers as they flow into the surrounding sea.

The discovery raises fresh questions about the speed at which sea levels might rise in a warmer world due to the rate at which parts of the ice sheets slide from the land into the ocean, scientists said at the American Association for the Advancement of Science in San Francisco.

"We've found that there are substantial subglacial lakes under ice that's moving a couple of metres per day. It's really ripping along. It's the fast-moving ice that determines how the ice sheet responds to climate change on a short timescale," said Robert Bindschadler, a Nasa scientist at the Goddard Space Flight Centre in Maryland, one of the study's co-authors.

"We aren't yet able to predict what these ice streams are going to do. We're still learning about the controlling processes. Water is critical, because it's essentially the grease on the wheel. But we don't know the details yet," Dr Bindschadler said. "Until now, we've had just a few glimpses into what's going on down there. This is the most complete picture to date about what's going on," he said.

The findings, to be published in the journal Science, came from satellite surveillance of the surface elevation of the ice sheets, which found that they rise or lower depending on the amount of water flowing between the base of the ice sheet and the rock beneath.

The scientists identified many regions of the ice sheet either rose or deflated between 2003 and 2006 as a result of water movements below. Water would be capable of this because it is highly pressurised under the weight of the overlying ice, they said.

Glaciologists have known for some time that water exists under the Antarctic ice sheets - which can be hundreds of metres thick - but they were surprised to find how much water is involved and the speed at which it moves from one subglacial reservoir to another, said Helen Fricker at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego.

"We didn't realise that the water under these ice streams was moving in such large quantities, and on such short time scales. We thought these changes took place over years and decades, but we are seeing large changes over months. The detected motions are astonishing in magnitude, dynamic nature and spatial extent," Dr Fricker said.

The West Antarctic ice sheet is the second biggest on the continent, and the rate at which ice flows from it to the Ross ice shelf, and then ultimately into the sea, is critical in assessing the likely impact of climate change on global sea levels.

The study provides evidence that subglacial water is stored in a linked system of reservoirs underneath the ice and can move quickly into and out of those reservoirs. This activity may play a major role in controlling the rate at which ice moves off the continent, Dr Fricker said.

"The links between ice stream activity and the climate are not well understood. To predict how the ice sheets might respond to global warming, this new information is vital as it gives us a more complete picture of what is happening under the ice," she said.

The study was conductedusing the Icesat satellite. It carries a laser altimeter instrument to detect changes as small as 1.5 centimetres in the elevation of the ice sheet's surface, from an orbit of 400 miles above the earth. "From 600 kilometres up in space, we were able to see small portions of the ice sheet rise and sink," Dr Bindschadler said.

Perfectionist
Feb 15th, 2007, 9:05 PM
If scientists didn't "sound alarms" ..... wouldn't their budget be cut ..... ?!

lady-t
Feb 15th, 2007, 9:24 PM
wouldn't the water under the ice sheets melt it from underneath? erode it away. and is the volcano in the antartic that is active exacerbate the situation. if you run a garden hose over a block of ice it melts it away. same principle different block of ice. and how long would it take to erode the glaciers away.

perdition79
Feb 16th, 2007, 1:48 AM
wouldn't the water under the ice sheets melt it from underneath? erode it away. and is the volcano in the antartic that is active exacerbate the situation. if you run a garden hose over a block of ice it melts it away. same principle different block of ice. and how long would it take to erode the glaciers away.

yes, it's called a feedback loop. ice melts, forms big puddles, puddles melt the ice below them, form fissures, and eventually rivers of melt water. the ice sheet, now a big brittle mass, holier than a chunk of swiss cheese, is lubricated underneath by the melt water. it breaks apart and is carried away by the melt water. From what I understand, it goes pretty damn quick, one of the ice shelves in Antarctica broke apart in under a month.

Al Gore's feel-good comedy "An Inconvenient Truth" explains it rather well.

Protostar
Feb 16th, 2007, 6:33 AM
Al gore is a politician. Since when does politicians tell the truth?
The lakes under the caps is proof that they melt from below
I don't believe a damn thing I hear on TV as well. Just today news released that Canada has been warming. Oh really. Did you click the Canadian link I posted a few posts back? They are freezing and have been for some time.
I'll believe the Canadian Minestry well before some politician who wants to
jump on the global warming bandwagon to further his career anytime.

ryangt2
Feb 16th, 2007, 7:06 PM
Need some concrete evidence you could say, anyway some newer reports in
Major glaciers could vanish in five years, experts say okay then lets see what happens.We wont know until its too late probably
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1850262.htm

ryangt2
Feb 18th, 2007, 7:14 PM
Climate change: scientists warn it may be too late to save the ice caps
okay nobody is interested never mind.This one in today and warnings will be given to their governments.I would believe them as they know what they are talking about.
http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,2016243,00.html