Check out my band's site...

[dutchie]

For the Dutch speaking members and others who would like to take a look:

www.vanbeukenstein.nl

Click the "demo's" link to listen to some recordings we recently made. I'm very proud of this band in which I play keyboards. All AO members are invited to a gig we will do on march 24 at "Het Kasteel" (The Castle) in Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands. If you would like to comment on the demo recordings, please post here!

[DontBeAfraid]

You guys sound good. Its kind of amusing that all the songs are in english and I can sing along even though I cant navigate the site.... well accept : In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, which is only part english.... A friend once told me that In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida was really "In the garden of Eden"? Do you know if thats true?

[dutchie]

Yep, absolutely.

Personally I think In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida turned out to be our best tune, along with Won't Get Fooled Again.

[DontBeAfraid]

why are there snippets of english throughout the site? Like a sentence here and there?


Backstage


V.I.P. onlyWhats back there eh?


Yep, absolutely.yes it is, In the garden of Eden?


edit: I think I signed the guestbook.

[Marajadex]

Yeah what is the backstage area???

I signed the guest book to but managed to mess it all up and double post. LOL!!! What A dork I am!!!!

Great site!

[dutchie]

why are there snippets of english throughout the site? Like a sentence here and there?Dunno, are there?:confused:

Whats back there eh?This is the entry for the band members. It's the band rehearsal agenda, suggestions for new tracks, stuff like that. Not very interesting to anyone else.

yes it is, In the garden of Eden?Yes, it is. It's an oldie by Iron Butterfly, a USA band from the late sixties (San Diego based).

edit: I think I signed the guestbook.Great!! Thanks!

[dutchie]

why are there snippets of english throughout the site? Like a sentence here and there?
Ah I see what you mean... Heh, I can understand why this looks strange to you. In Holland we do this all the time; I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. We seem to be a pretty anglo-orientated little people. The fact that most rock music lyrics are in English certainly contributes to this effect.

[donniedarko]

Nice. Very nice. Did you do the recordings yourself? The production is quite good.

[dutchie]

Yes, we did it all. What's more, we did it at home, in the guitarists attick..

FYI (if you have any knowledge about this..) we use Cubase SX 3, an RME audio card, an Intel based PC with LOTS of memory and a SCSI level 3 hard drive system.
We use only software plugins for the effects; most of those are by Waves.

[dutchie]

Oh yeah, microphones by Röde and Telefunken. Synths by Waldorf, Roland and Moog. Guitars by Valley Arts and Gibson; guitar amps by Marshall and Mesa Boogie. Bass by Status and Warwick; amps by Hevos. Drums by Pearl.

[donniedarko]

Cubase is sick. I made the switch last year from Protools and have made dramatic improvements in sound quality and post-recording manipulation. That being said, Logic looks like the successor for me. Gonna download the demo and check it out this summer.

As to the kit, I am a drummer by trade so can't comment on the guitar/synth aspects (although I do love the Mesa sound), never been a big fan of Pearl meself. Always prefered DW or Taye (have a Taye tour pro custom maple) but I must admit the sound quality coming out of that Pearl kit is sublime.

keep up the good work. if I am ever in the netherlands, I will be sure to find my way to a gig. :pirate:

[Skynet12]

I'm still using Cubase se- whats logic?

[dutchie]

Cubase is sick. I made the switch last year from Protools and have made dramatic improvements in sound quality and post-recording manipulation. That being said, Logic looks like the successor for me. Gonna download the demo and check it out this summer.How do you mean Cubase is "sick"?!? We've been using it for many years now, starting with the Atari Stf 1040 platform. It never failed us at all. I must say the 3 SX version really rocks, it's extremely stable. Only thing we recommend: use a stripped Windows XP version, with all the extra weight stripped. Instructions on how to do this can be found at many places on the web. We use this PC SOLELY for audio. There's no internet, no other applications whatsoever. It's an awesome tool.
Logic is great, as is Pro Tools. The interface really doesn't matter that much, it's the audio card that really does make the difference. We chose the RME Hammerfall for it's superb filtering and speed. Not cheap, but really great! Personally I'm just very much used to using Cubase; I just fly around the screens. It's just a personal thing, it says nothing about the quality of the others.

As to the kit, I am a drummer by trade so can't comment on the guitar/synth aspects (although I do love the Mesa sound), never been a big fan of Pearl meself. Always prefered DW or Taye (have a Taye tour pro custom maple) but I must admit the sound quality coming out of that Pearl kit is sublime.To be honest, our drummer also uses a Gretsch kit. Some parts of those (snare, floor) get switched in some tracks with the Pearl. When you play rock like we do, there's nothing like a (top range) DW, our drummer agrees. But in his opinion the Pearl Pro kit is more versatile in a studio environment, while the DW just sounds better on a stage (PA). I think both have their strong/weak points. IMO the DW is a little too "modern" for the "old school" rock we do. We agree on one thing, tho: there's nothing like those Zildjian cymbals. RJ (our drummer) uses Gibraltar hardware.

keep up the good work. if I am ever in the netherlands, I will be sure to find my way to a gig. :pirate:You're more than welcome. I can also arrange for you to attend a rehearsal, if you want. Always good to talk to a musician.

[dutchie]

I'm still using Cubase se- whats logic?

Logic used to be marketed by Emagic in Germany. It's been taken over by Apple. You can buy the Pro version for both PC and Apple here:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=81339189&nplm=MA336ZM%2FA

Be prepared to fork out $ 1,000 minimum.

Check out www.digidesign.com for details on Pro Tools.

[Demonskates]

if someone referes to somthing here in America as "sick." It means very cool. That it is somthing great. Nice site. Thats what our band needs. I wish i could come to the Netherlands to see you guys. That would not only be a great trip, but alot of fun hanging out with fellow musicians.

[dutchie]

Absolutely!! As you might have seen on the site (the band's bio) we're in it for the fun. And fun it definitely is!! You're welcome to attend a gig or rehearsal any time. Just send me a mail.

BTW, thanks for explaining "sick".. Knowing the language is one thing, but knowing al (modern) expressions is another altogether...

[Demonskates]

Thank you for the invite, that would be fun. No problem, american slang is a bit odd.
It varys from region to region too. here on the east coast we refer to things as "wicked." people from the southern states dont get what we mean, but we use wicked in front of things , Like "That band was wicked cool." We replace "very "with wicked. or in alot of places people refer to things as "Bad." Like "Hey that was bad ass!" Its actually a compliment as in "Good." Dont ask me where that all originated from. so bad can mean either bad, or good depending on what context you use it in. we reverse words meanings in slang it seems.

[donniedarko]

How do you mean Cubase is "sick"?!?

Lol, thanks for the clarification demonskates. I continually forget that certain euphemisms may not be standard amongst people for whom english is not their first language. I much prefer Cubase over Protools, from a functionality perspective. I used protools for years and I find I just get so much more out of cubase. with that being said, i am definitely making the move to logic.


We agree on one thing, tho: there's nothing like those Zildjian cymbals.

absolutely. although I am really feeling a turk dry ride right now. i love going to the used section of music shops and spending a couple hours finding that perfect symbol.

[dutchie]

We just added a new song; our rendition of "Fool For Your Lovin'" by Whitesnake.
You can check out this demo, along with all others here: http://www.vanbeukenstein.nl/index.php?id=9
Don't forget to sign the guestbook. Of course you're all welcome to register with the forum too, but I think you'd run into a spot of linguistical problems there.. (it's in Dutch)

[dutchie]

...i am definitely making the move to logic..
I seriously wish you all the best of luck with that move.. I have tried Logic and I must admit much of the ..err.. logic was wasted on me. I found Cubase to have a much more intuitive and organic lay out. But as I said, the music is not in the proggie, it's in the mind. The sound is also not in the proggie, it's in the sound card...

[Demonskates]

A buddy of ours tours with the dropkick murphys. He recorded our demo with Pro Tools. That is one hell of a program. He played our demo for the dropkicks and they really liked it, which was awesome for us to hear. I couldnt beleive the quality. Radio quality. I was impressed. I havent had much expirience with the other programs you mentioned.

[dutchie]

Radio quality.Radio quality?!? How do you mean? FM radio doesn't go any further than 15 KHz, which is something like 128 kbps mp3... Not very good...

[lazserus]

Dutchie's right, radio quality is piss poor. Recording quality revolves around not only the software used to record, but the hardware's. To give you a primitive example, if I were to record an electronic song (no live instruments recorded) with a program only capable of rendering at 128kbps, then it doesn't matter the capabilities of the mastering software that finalizes the project. You have to make sure your recording devices are capable of the quality you intend to ultimately result in. Also, if you're recording through a computer you definitely need a soundcard capable of recording the quality. When it comes to digital recording and mastering there is a much to be learned.

Radio quality as an example is not a good one.

[donniedarko]

I think Demon was implying that the recording was good enough for public release, comparable to recordings by bands that are signed to labels. I could be wrong however.

Laz/dutchie: Maybe you can answer this one.

Does a high quality track played through radio sound better than a low quality track played through radio?

In other words, does the radio diminish the quality at a standard rate? Here is a analogy, all values arbitrary.

Say playing on the radio reduces the quality of the music at the listener end by 5 and the maximum quality that can be produced at the listener end is say 10. If I play a track that is quality 20 and a track that is quality 15, the listener will here the same thing, but if I play a track that is quality 12, the listener will hear something that is quality 8.

I am thinking through this correctly or have I got it all wrong?

How does satellite radio play into all this?

edit: P.s. first of all, dutchie love the new track. excellent sound around the board, your singer is awesome.

I am generally reluctant to make an suggestions to people i haven't personally recorded because art/music has a very personal connection that can potentially lead to misconstrued intentions but I have a feeling that you won't take offense to friendly advice (at least I hope you won't, because no offense is intended). Regardless, I digress. My suggestion (more asthetic than anything else) that I am hearing some minor treble cross-interference from the splash/hats and the synth right around 1 minute. It may be my speakers but I am using Rokit studio customs with a perfectly flat frequency response and my equalizer is set to null so I should in theory be getting what you recorded at. Your drummer might want to consider using a larger diameter hat or maybe in the recording you can put a limiter on the overhead mics for the kit. That or, potentially dropping the high-frequency out of the synth buzz or maybe moving it out of phase a little.

look forward to hearing more from you guys. have definitely referred some of my rock friends your way.

[dutchie]

I think Demon was implying that the recording was good enough for public release, comparable to recordings by bands that are signed to labels. I could be wrong however.But you might be right as well..


Does a high quality track played through radio sound better than a low quality track played through radio?The sound of ALL recordings is ultimately determined by the last element in the audio chain. You could have a $ 4,000 amplifier; if your speakers are crap, so will be the sound. Same goes for FM radio. Playing Pink Floyd (IMO the masters of production) through FM radio will turn it into dynamically flat crap.


In other words, does the radio diminish the quality at a standard rate? Here is a analogy, all values arbitrary.

Say playing on the radio reduces the quality of the music at the listener end by 5 and the maximum quality that can be produced at the listener end is say 10. If I play a track that is quality 20 and a track that is quality 15, the listener will here the same thing, but if I play a track that is quality 12, the listener will hear something that is quality 8.Eh? Bit confusing example, to be honest, but let me clarify. FM radio will diminish the quality of the product, any way you look at it. (AM or SW will do a far worse job, but let that rest for a while..). Due to the process which is involved in FM, there will be three factors reducing the sound quality: dynamics, frequency response and signal-to-noise ratio. All three are very poor with FM radio, to use a euphemism. Listen closely to the radio, next time you hear a tune you know quite well. You will detect a certain "flatness" in the dynamics. ALL parts of the music will appear to be sounding equally loud, be it softer passages or not. This is one factor, but IMO the most apparent.
Frequency response: as I said, the top frequencies produced through FM are around 14,500 Hz. The pilot tone of the signal is somewhat higher (dogs will hear it quite well, you'll have a hard time hearing it when you're over twenty...). Standard CD quality has a frequency response of tops 20,500 Hz (half of the sampling rate of 41,100 Hz @ 16 bit resolution). Now this doesn't seem that much more than FM response (far less than an octave difference, as each octave will double the frequency), but it will mean a lot in terms of transparency in high harmonics of any sound. Cymbals will sound far less crisp, you name it.
The signal-to-noise factor needs no further explanation IMO.
What we do in our studio is this: we record ALL demo songs at 96 Khz, 24 bit resolution. This might seem like overkill, seeing that all recordings ultimately will be brought back to a lower resolution/sampling rate, but for us it serves a definite purpose: saturation.
In the early days, when there still was analog circuitry and tape recordings, producers often drove the signal to the extreme, to acquire a tiny bit of distortion. This distortion (certainly in rock recordings) added a definite bit of extra warmth to the overall signal. When we switched to 44.1/16, tape saturation was no longer possible, the A/D conversion would result in a terrible harsh sound when overdriven. The resolution of today (used in superCD and DVD audio) makes it possible to return to the tape saturation effect again, because overdriving the signal at these rates will result in a sound much akin to the old overdriven tape.
When the product is finally finished (mixed), we render two results: one master in 96Khz/24 bit and the other at 44.1 Khz/16 bit. The final one can be used to produce a CD. The other we keep for archive (who knows, we might finally need to burn a DVD as well?!?) and for pleasurable listening. You can understand dynamics and frequency transparency are much better at 96 Khz/24 bits.


How does satellite radio play into all this?I don't know much about that, but if you're talking about digital receivers, the sound should equal CD quality.


edit: P.s. first of all, dutchie love the new track. excellent sound around the board, your singer is awesome.Thanks, DD - I agree about the singer. He sings like a God...


I am generally reluctant to make an suggestions to people i haven't personally recorded because art/music has a very personal connection that can potentially lead to misconstrued intentions but I have a feeling that you won't take offense to friendly advice (at least I hope you won't, because no offense is intended). Regardless, I digress. My suggestion (more asthetic than anything else) that I am hearing some minor treble cross-interference from the splash/hats and the synth right around 1 minute. It may be my speakers but I am using Rokit studio customs with a perfectly flat frequency response and my equalizer is set to null so I should in theory be getting what you recorded at. Your drummer might want to consider using a larger diameter hat or maybe in the recording you can put a limiter on the overhead mics for the kit. That or, potentially dropping the high-frequency out of the synth buzz or maybe moving it out of phase a little.Haha, LOL. Thanks for the advice, and I do believe you mean that in the best possible of ways. But: we're talking hard rock music here, and we're not particularly interested in minor high frequency cross-interferences. It's gotta bash yer cones, so to say, and I think that's exactly what it does... We're doing all of this just for the heck of it, not for the money, or with the idea in mind we're getting a serious deal with any label. Having said that - we are working on our own songs.. Who knows?!?


look forward to hearing more from you guys. have definitely referred some of my rock friends your way.Thanks again, man! We aim to please...

[Demonskates]

Its The best digital quality you can get. I meant by radio quality that it could be played on the radio and it would sound as good as anything a major label could produce sound quality wise. It sounds like it was recorded by a major label.
Ive heard tons of demos, digital, analog what have you, and we are very lucky to have such sound quality. Champy is also very talented as far as recording/ producing goes. We owe alot to him for his hard work.