At the door

[TC]

The European Union assembly's political establishment is pushing through changes that will silence dissidents by changing the rules allowing Euro-MPs to form political groupings. Richard Corbett, a British Labour MEP, is leading the charge to cut the number of party political tendencies in the Parliament next year, a move that would dissolve UKIP's pan-European Eurosceptic "Independence and Democracy" grouping. Under the rule change, the largest and most pro-EU groups would tighten their grip on the Parliament's political agenda and keep control of lavish funding.

http://www.corrupt.org/news/european...itarian_empire

[weederbro]

Yes, interesting what's happening in Europe.
I recently read that the Vatican is moving towards instituting Sunday Laws and are moving towards outlawing religious groups outside of the mainstream, the Beast is at work exactly as foretold!

[Cornish Maid]

Being members of the EU costs the UK £65 billion a year.

http://www.democracymovementsurrey.c...k_eucosts.html

[TC]

Bump. Given all the amendments regarding national security, one has to wonder who exactly the bogeyman is in the eyes of PTB. Granted they have enough foreign entities to deem hostile towards a western life style, yet a majority of security measures seem pointed at the local citizenry.

Phone taps, Internet monitoring, home ransacking, gives the impression that the government has a greater fear of its own population. Perhaps they know something we don't, in as much as a realistic economy would bring the country to its knees if the note came due.

One has to think that one small lie has at least 10 more behind it to cover the tracks, and no doubt our government is a day late and a dollar shot when it comes to truth. Hardly a day goes by when we don't hear of some high up person or institution getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar, yet for some strange reason a lot of this never sees the inside of a court room.

Probably the single largest slap in the face is the home owner having his mortgage called in by a bank that just got their ass saved by a Fed bail out. Maybe its this kind of situation the security measures are intended to deal with? knowing enough unemployment and homeless residents present the junkyard dog to be feared.

What does it take? to what level do you draw a country down to before its population says enough is enough!

[Traveler]

Actually it all makes perfect sense

But only if you are willing to acknowledge what the game plan is.

The royal families that governed the world before the first world war are now pushed aside but in its place has risen a new power elite that has economic control. If they are to install their own dynasties for all generations to come then democracy has to go and the peasants put back in their place.

[palerider]

Its ironic that this evening I was sat with both my parents having a dinner talking about the cost of food and how they were lucky to see the best years of civilisation....50's, 60's and 70's, and how we will never see that again....perhaps only a worsening existence

I kinda stumbled on this thread and have sat quitely reading it for the last 20 mins.....and you know....I've had this feeling too....for the last few years

I think you guys have really hit on an unspoken menacing problem that we all face sometime soon.

TC raises brilliantly things that I just can't put into words on this....I just want to add that a few years ago my brother and I were talking about end of world scenarios.....I remember having a clear vision of what will come.....not great wars....but overpopulation, famine, poverty.....and even money wont save those who have plenty of it.

NK wrote a superb response to another thread of mine...in it she sited her belief of what will come.....and you know I agree whole heartedly with that vision:
Life really sucks and life is not fair. Plus, it really is getting worse. The world is at a the beginning of a dying cycle... maybe 5 or 100 thousand years from now we'll be back on an upswing, but for now it's all about death and destruction and the ends of things built up. That is simply how it is, and I do not care what anybody says. Nu Kua 2011

[TC]

Well given the latest action taken by our elected government, and there is some irony in that we continue to vote for them, even when one thing after another comes to light, and I suppose "legal" assassination shouldn't really surprise anybody. But Pandora's box is open, and there really isn't much you can do about it, short of armed insurrection, and we know that isn't going to happen, yet you wonder how far down the line a government would take this so called "legal" targeting of U.S citizens.

If all it takes is being labeled suspect, then you unleash a myriad of agencies that invade every aspect of your life, and yet we stumble down to the polls and cast a vote under the guise of something called democracy, as if all the the crap that has transpired over the years has suddenly vanished, hoping that changing parties will fix all the problems. What is this magic spell that gets cast every 4 years that causes relatively intelligent people to blindly choose a canidate, knowing full well the problems still exists.

In simpler times, we could turn a blind eye to the corruption that existed with lobby politics, but do we bury our heads in the sand when our constitutional rights are slipping away under a supposed threat from an unknown? and when the majority of these security controls are for domestic use?

Strange how we don't demand accountability or proof, we didn't see the body of Bin Laden, a person that has been chased around the world for 10 years, strange how some person targeted in the middle of the desert couldn't be apprehended for trial, even stranger is a President who a year ago recived the Noble Peace Prize, yet sent more troops into a war that nobody win, and set in motion the legal hit of a U.S citizen.

Do you what until the bell tolls for you? or has apathy already won.

[dcookcan]

Epic Thread TC!

[Lillith]

I recommend the following books; FOR UNDERSTANDING that the men and women who run this country are really by comparison, petty criminals when comparing them to those crafty courriers who run the world.

48 Rules of Power is a good primer for learning how these people think

For defense: To be aware of ways that people are so easily manipulated - mainly because they believe their "leaders" are in place to carry decency as their cross with the best interests of the "people"
as the core of their actions.

Which is of course, total bullshit and naive. There are many things, realms of possibilites when it comes to the Art of Seduction. Across this country we have thousands of children and young adults who are taught to believe, by their parents, in God, country and family. Its those very exemplary belief systems that are manipulated by the seduction of war and become become cannon fodder for the war machines.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power

Law 42 Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter.
Law 43 Work on the hearts and minds of others.
Law 44 Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect.
Law 45 Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at once.
Law 46 Never appear perfect.
Law 47 Do not go past the mark you aimed for; in victory, learn when to stop.
Law 48 Assume formlessness.

Art Of Seduction is a book by Robert Greene and Joost Elffers which, while examining social power much like their book The 48 Laws of Power, does so through the lens of seduction.Like The 48 Laws of Power, this book also takes a neutral look at how to manipulate social situations. Though the language can seem morally base, Greene invites the reader to look at the book amorally, justifying that people want to be seduced.

[palerider]

Hey Lillith I liked!

You clearly have hit on a number of issues, but the one word that shines out to me is 'power'.

[tahn1000]

I recommend the following books; FOR UNDERSTANDING that the men and women who run this country are really by comparison, petty criminals when comparing them to those crafty courriers who run the world.

48 Rules of Power is a good primer for learning how these people think

For defense: To be aware of ways that people are so easily manipulated - mainly because they believe their "leaders" are in place to carry decency as their cross with the best interests of the "people"
as the core of their actions.

Which is of course, total bullshit and naive. There are many things, realms of possibilites when it comes to the Art of Seduction. Across this country we have thousands of children and young adults who are taught to believe, by their parents, in God, country and family. Its those very exemplary belief systems that are manipulated by the seduction of war and become become cannon fodder for the war machines.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power

Law 42 Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter.
Law 43 Work on the hearts and minds of others.
Law 44 Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect.
Law 45 Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at once.
Law 46 Never appear perfect.
Law 47 Do not go past the mark you aimed for; in victory, learn when to stop.
Law 48 Assume formlessness.

Art Of Seduction is a book by Robert Greene and Joost Elffers which, while examining social power much like their book The 48 Laws of Power, does so through the lens of seduction.Like The 48 Laws of Power, this book also takes a neutral look at how to manipulate social situations. Though the language can seem morally base, Greene invites the reader to look at the book amorally, justifying that people want to be seduced.

strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter. how perfectly true. in order to destroy otherwise stable countries that's exactly what happened in both egypt and lybia.

[TC]

Probably what becomes most apparent with the folding of the American economy is the lack of empathy for those who are losing their homes and jobs. Its even apparent here on the board, ( you know who you are) granted the "occupation" is a form of protest, but as whole there isn't much done by state and local agencies. During the the 30s there was a sort of unity with the nation and genuine sympathy for those who had no work or home, hobo camps sprang up along the railway lines, and the rural areas could offer work for shelter and food. Today its common to see people standing on the freeway on ramps holding signs "I'll work for food" and even with their kids, this in itself is a phenomena of modern times in an otherwise rich country, but when you see the same guy standing there several hours later, then you understand somethings terribly wrong.

[Cartesiantheater]

Probably what becomes most apparent with the folding of the American economy is the lack of empathy for those who are losing their homes and jobs. Its even apparent here on the board, ( you know who you are) granted the "occupation" is a form of protest, but as whole there isn't much done by state and local agencies. During the the 30s there was a sort of unity with the nation and genuine sympathy for those who had no work or home, hobo camps sprang up along the railway lines, and the rural areas could offer work for shelter and food. Today its common to see people standing on the freeway on ramps holding signs "I'll work for food" and even with their kids, this in itself is a phenomena of modern times in an otherwise rich country, but when you see the same guy standing there several hours later, then you understand somethings terribly wrong.

The key is, will they also protest with their VOTE? If not that this is all just a waste of time for them and everyone. Protesting is both an output AND creator/sustainer public outcry, valuable because it solidifies the people and makes them aware of issues. But without the VOTE to go along with it, there is little power to address the issues they are protesting.



Note the results from the Tea Party. They affected at least SOME change. Why? They voted AS WELL as bitched. I strongly suspect around 1% of the 99% will actually vote /irony.

[Cherisa]

Probably what becomes most apparent with the folding of the American economy is the lack of empathy for those who are losing their homes and jobs. Its even apparent here on the board, ( you know who you are) granted the "occupation" is a form of protest, but as whole there isn't much done by state and local agencies. During the the 30s there was a sort of unity with the nation and genuine sympathy for those who had no work or home, hobo camps sprang up along the railway lines, and the rural areas could offer work for shelter and food. Today its common to see people standing on the freeway on ramps holding signs "I'll work for food" and even with their kids, this in itself is a phenomena of modern times in an otherwise rich country, but when you see the same guy standing there several hours later, then you understand somethings terribly wrong.

I don't have ANY empathy for those guys on the freeway..and I will tell you why. Last year I watched a guy who had a sign, head down low behind his sign, people kept pulling over giving him money, I gave him 80.00, the next day he was out again. in a diffrent area. I think those guys make alot of money. I could be wrong, but, I don't think I am. Plus, there are places for them to go. I saw signs in LA saying don't give to panhandlers instead call this number where they can get help.

[TC]

Well its like anything else in life, you have the poor, and you have those that exploit the situation. What matters is the attitude you have when faced with it. What you did, you did from the heart, and whoever received it, really doesn't matter.

And if I know you, it won't be the last time either.

[Cartesiantheater]

(note: I am NOT promoting a religion. Instead I'm quoting one of the world's most important PHILOSOPHERS to make a point)

If a man asks for your shirt, give him your coat also.
[...]

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The point being, do the right thing because it's the right thing and let God, Fate (or whoever- or NO ONE if you're an atheist) sort out the cheats, manipulators and liars.

[Cherisa]

(note: I am NOT promoting a religion. Instead I'm quoting one of the world's most important PHILOSOPHERS to make a point)



The point being, do the right thing because it's the right thing and let God, Fate (or whoever- or NO ONE if you're an atheist) sort out the cheats, manipulators and liars.

But, Jesus was full of wisdom. It's not always the right thing to hand people money.Especially drug addicts.

[Cartesiantheater]

But, Jesus was full of wisdom. It's not always the right thing to hand people money.Especially drug addicts.

Again, do the right thing because it's the right thing. However, without evidence that a particular bum is a drug addict, it is not morally permissible to treat said bum as one. If, on the other hand, you believe there is enough evidence that the bum is a drug addict, are you not still morally obligated to give him/her FOOD at least? (all other things being equal)

[calliope]

But the bible says that we're supposed to hate those who don't follow the beliefs of christians, doesn't it?

From what I understand of the christian faith, they don't actually put into action the words of Jesus. They work to break down a person's life who doesn't follow their own ideas of what it means to be christian. Not what Jesus taught.

So that commandment to hate in God's name must be in the bible somewhere, since they quote it all the time. I still haven't found it though.

[Lillith]

I know what you mean, it seems that either the people have been dumbed down/scared to the point of not noticing such government attempts or have been reduced to the most lazy of people by the media... and you know what? Its probably both.

Is there hope? Well its hard to say considering theres been little major changes as there are still free thinkers and history does seem to show te dictators always crumble but however with such new technology the future is misty.

Im thinking the divide would be even more defined and not necessarily relegated to any politial party affiliation or religion which have always been the major players historically. Me thinks it will be more like you say, free thinkers vs the chained who are paralized beyond mobility. Technology regardless of how wowie or impressive has a way of always aging faster than the human spirit and will to rebel, reject and fight oppression.

[TC]

Its like some huge boat with everybody sitting comfortably on their way somewhere, but the boats leaking and has no rudder. So rather than take the initiative to "fix" the leak and find a rudder, they argue over who's responsible. Meanwhile the boat is going under, but comfort is a higher priority than survival.

There is always a handful who try to warn of the impending disaster, even going the distance of trying to fix the "leak" but they usually get accused of disturbing the status Que.... and history has shown us that this minority eventually goes down with the ship.

While we watch the handful question the ethics with OWS, the powers that be know good and well that both the colder weather and the holidays will eventually subdue the will. And even the free thinkers will return to the sanctuary of the shopping mall, not willing to face the ridicule of ignoring tradition and family.

I would suspect its like trying to "fix" the hole in Titanic with a wad of chewing gum. And without a majority behind the effort, the tragedy is unavoidable.

As an after thought, I would add that this is not a slam towards the efforts made by those who do question the ethics of the selected few, its more of an observation of the historical giants we use as examples of greatness. At the hight of any great society, no one would have questioned the continuance of these nations, Sumerian, Persian, Greek, Roman, even the later stature of modern empirical rule by 19th century nations, but they all shared one fate, they eventually failed, and not necessarily due to lack of military strength.

[Traveler]

But the bible says that we're supposed to hate those who don't follow the beliefs of christians, doesn't it?

From what I understand of the christian faith, they don't actually put into action the words of Jesus. They work to break down a person's life who doesn't follow their own ideas of what it means to be christian. Not what Jesus taught.

So that commandment to hate in God's name must be in the bible somewhere, since they quote it all the time. I still haven't found it though.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

[Traveler]

Its like some huge boat with everybody sitting comfortably on their way somewhere, but the boats leaking and has no rudder. So rather than take the initiative to "fix" the leak and find a rudder, they argue over who's responsible. Meanwhile the boat is going under, but comfort is a higher priority than survival.

There is always a handful who try to warn of the impending disaster, even going the distance of trying to fix the "leak" but they usually get accused of disturbing the status Que.... and history has shown us that this minority eventually goes down with the ship.

While we watch the handful question the ethics with OWS, the powers that be know good and well that both the colder weather and the holidays will eventually subdue the will. And even the free thinkers will return to the sanctuary of the shopping mall, not willing to face the ridicule of ignoring tradition and family.

I would suspect its like trying to "fix" the hole in Titanic with a wad of chewing gum. And without a majority behind the effort, the tragedy is unavoidable.

As an after thought, I would add that this is not a slam towards the efforts made by those who do question the ethics of the selected few, its more of an observation of the historical giants we use as examples of greatness. At the hight of any great society, no one would have questioned the continuance of these nations, Sumerian, Persian, Greek, Roman, even the later stature of modern empirical rule by 19th century nations, but they all shared one fate, they eventually failed, and not necessarily due to lack of military strength.

What I find is that the basic building blocks that first lay the foundation of the nation eventually get removed by a national system that wants to consolidate total control so as to project power. The nations collapse from out of control bureaucracies. Hence the big powers first rot from within before breaking externally.

The family unit is the basic building block. The state has assumed control over that unit and a falling apart of the nations are now inevitable.

[calliope]

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

Oh well said, sir.

I totally love those who use me...and lie, over months and months of intense mockery and insults....and I even let them enjoy their sadism to the fullest degree!

Never once returning lie, or fake promise, or insult or desire to hurt, shame and manipulate.

I let them, with an enormous smile and happiness....until they slam me with the ultimate snub and deep-hearted, pure, sadistic hate.......

I'm actually quite good with the allowing of the use and abuse and cruel manipulations -- with nary a complaint.

Love thy neighbor as thy self, they say.....even when they are fake, enormous liars and brimming over with cruelty. I just love, and take their venomous shit.

Over and over and over again. Jesus would be quite proud.

[TC]

I think we have to take responsibility for our actions or better yet, our inaction regarding the current condition of the country, A lot of energy goes off to earmarking the bad guys, but as I mentioned in my last post, the majority can't be moved from the security of their comfort. If you look at other western countries, like France for example, they take their cars and farm machinery out on the express way, park it, and go home....bringing the country to a standstill.... forcing the government to listen, and in some cases back off from an unpopular law. They did it this year with the purposed law to remove speed camera warning signs....

If we have allowed apathy or indifference to limit our actions when governmental agencies are created to undermine the Constitution by amendment, then the door is slammed shut.

There are many opinions as to what we define dictatorships by, but when citizens are simply classed as "terrorists" and summarily executed without trial, then I would call that the demise of a democracy, and given the amount of agencies created to class individuals in this category without due process, is without question the format of dictatorship.