Adam was the first obstetrician.......

[UVsaturated]

How did he know how to deliver a baby? Did he watch the animals deliver babies and how did he know to cut the cord versus just chewing it in two??

[lycanox]

Just instinct. Its one of the things that just happen to the poor girl.

I don't see how some kind of miracle was needed to accomplish it.

[Michigander Troll]

Weren't there unidentified "others" around? Couldn't one of them have been a midwife? Besides, since they had eaten the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, instructions should have been in there somewhere it seems.

[Traveler]

I would say that they did what is still done today when a woman is in the middle of nowhere, 100's of miles away from a hospital and with no transport. The best they can.

BTW. Human baby's are not born in the bag as is the case with some mammals. The placenta comes out soon after and so they probably looked at this baby with a long cord attached with a lump of meat on the end and decided that it would be a good idea to cut the cord. In fact he probably did chew through it anyway with the result that his or her saliva sterilized it anyhow.

By then the kid is breathing on its own anyway. The child itself instinctively heads for the breasts.

Why would this be such an issue to you.

[Cartesiantheater]

How did he know how to deliver a baby? Did he watch the animals deliver babies and how did he know to cut the cord versus just chewing it in two??

A better question is, did Adam and Eve have umbilical chords... but that one's old hat.


It doesn't take a genius to see that the chord has to be cut. Surely the baby isn't supposed to stay attached to the mother forever, huh? :/

[UVsaturated]

A better question is, did Adam and Eve have umbilical chords... but that one's old hat.


It doesn't take a genius to see that the chord has to be cut. Surely the baby isn't supposed to stay attached to the mother forever, huh? :/

Really?

But you only know this because of tradition and you've seen it in textbooks and in real life. It is common knowledge, but Adam could not have known the placenta isn't just an accessory to his child or a mutation. Maybe the placenta started rotting and fell off later. Couldn't it get infected?

In fact, anything Adam knew he had to come up with. He had no previous example of how to do anything. How did he know how to garden? Why would he even think for a moment that if you put seeds in the ground they sprout and grow? Did he just place them there out of foolishness like a child putting their fingers in their nose?

[lycanox]

Some knowledge are we just born with.

When did you learned that eating cured hunger? Let alone that you should suck on your mother nipples to get milk?

Yet these complex things are one of the first thing baby's do when their born.
Even if the surrounding people hasn't breastfeed for years.

[James Random]

Personally I don't subscribe to the theory of creation for one reason: My plum.

Now my plum is very interesting, it was given to be my father who "acquired" it from the Military when he did work with the US Military and NASA for a time.

To explain. When Hiroshima exploded, alll of the flowers in the field surrounding it were instantly petrified, they became a special sort of Agate that can ONLY be obtained as the result of a nuclear explosion, nobody else has ever been able to recreate it.

Now, my plum is hollow, but its exactly the same kind of agate as those flowers were

Except for one thing: The carbon dating puts it at about 2.5 Billion years old.

Now you tell me, was Adam exploding nuclear bombs 2.5 Billion years ago?

[lycanox]

I am not sure how Carbon dating works exactly, but radiation could have accelerated the rate of decay.

[James Random]

strangely not in this agate form. Since it seems the high amounts of radiation account for why this form of agate is impossible to reproduce with anything other than a nuclear explosion.

[Cartesiantheater]

Personally I don't subscribe to the theory of creation for one reason: My plum.

Now my plum is very interesting, it was given to be my father who "acquired" it from the Military when he did work with the US Military and NASA for a time.

To explain. When Hiroshima exploded, alll of the flowers in the field surrounding it were instantly petrified, they became a special sort of Agate that can ONLY be obtained as the result of a nuclear explosion, nobody else has ever been able to recreate it.

Now, my plum is hollow, but its exactly the same kind of agate as those flowers were

Except for one thing: The carbon dating puts it at about 2.5 Billion years old.

Now you tell me, was Adam exploding nuclear bombs 2.5 Billion years ago?

Quick science question:

How can carbon dating give a date of 2.5 billion years when the half-life of carbon 14 (used for radiocarbon dating) is only about 5730 years, and generally speaking carbon 14 is only useful for dating things no older than about 60,000 years? By the time you get to 2.5 billion years, you would have long ago ran out of any traceable amounts of C14, so how can a C14 date of 2.5 billion years possibly be accurate?

Here, we can try this:

t = (ln N/N0)/(-0.0625) * t 1/2,

where t = the time, N/N0 is the percentage of C14 in the sample, -0.0625 is derived from a calculus integral, and t 1/2 is the half life of the material (5730 years):

2, 500, 000, 000 years = [(ln x/100)/ -0.0625] * 5730 years

We can solve for x to determine the percentage of C14 originally present.

==> 2500000000 / 5730 * -0.0625 = ln (x/100)

==> e ^ (2500000000 / 5730 * -0.0625 ) = x/100

==> 100e^(2500000000 / 5730 * -0.0625 ) = x

==> 100 e^ (436 300.175 * -0.0625) = x

==> 100 e ^ ( -27 268.7609) = x

==> x = 0...

The number is so small that the calculator calculates it as zero. Hell, e ^ (-100) = 3.72007598 × 10^(-44), so you can see how the number is so small that it might as well be zero. So mathematically we can see that there is no way that your sample has any C14, which seems to match the intuitive conclusion that because C14's half life is so small (5730 years) that you really can't use it for samples that are very old.

Sure you meant C14 dating?


Maybe you can explain this agate process better (it is something I have not heard of and sounds interesting, but still, you can't possibly mean C14 dating- know that I'm not saying what you're saying happened can't happen, but I am only asking why you would say carbon dating gives an age of 2.5 billion years when that seems a bit impossible to me)

NOTE- I do NOT follow creationism...

[Traveler]

Personally I don't subscribe to the theory of creation for one reason: My plum.

Now my plum is very interesting, it was given to be my father who "acquired" it from the Military when he did work with the US Military and NASA for a time.

To explain. When Hiroshima exploded, all of the flowers in the field surrounding it were instantly petrified, they became a special sort of Agate that can ONLY be obtained as the result of a nuclear explosion, nobody else has ever been able to recreate it.

Now, my plum is hollow, but its exactly the same kind of agate as those flowers were

Except for one thing: The carbon dating puts it at about 2.5 Billion years old.

Now you tell me, was Adam exploding nuclear bombs 2.5 Billion years ago?

There is in fact a lot of other evidence that supports the idea of a nuclear Holocaust in our dim and distant past.

The civilization that was wiped out by Noah's flood had to have advanced to the point where it was even possible to build an ark of the type described which means a certain amount of industrialization. Metal tools etc that can cut wood with a good deal of precision.

But the point is that the earth was destroyed because all life had become corrupted. You cannot corrupt all life unless you mess up its DNA in some way. We found out how to split the atom before we found out how to read our chromosomes.

But the most interesting verse is this one

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

The part of interest was this, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth"

All other life was told to fill the earth but only man was told to REPLENISH the earth. As in replace that which was there but is now no longer. Perhaps the old fossils are not like modern man because they are not even related to us in the first place.

[James Random]

For the science question - i have no idea - carbon dating is not my field. Yet my father had access to carbon dating processes far more advanced than that of which is available commercially (i could tell you some horror stories about exactly WHAT sort of technology the military owns), and that this machine have the figure of 2.5 billion years old.

[shrugs] I saw the results myself, i know not how it came to such a figure, but it did.

[James Random]

There is in fact a lot of other evidence that supports the idea of a nuclear Holocaust in our dim and distant past.

The civilization that was wiped out by Noah's flood had to have advanced to the point where it was even possible to build an ark of the type described which means a certain amount of industrialization. Metal tools etc that can cut wood with a good deal of precision.

But the point is that the earth was destroyed because all life had become corrupted. You cannot corrupt all life unless you mess up its DNA in some way. We found out how to split the atom before we found out how to read our chromosomes.

But the most interesting verse is this one

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

The part of interest was this, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth"

All other life was told to fill the earth but only man was told to REPLENISH the earth. As in replace that which was there but is now no longer. Perhaps the old fossils are not like modern man because they are not even related to us in the first place.

anything relating to creation in the bible is sketchy at best. For example the Bible makes no mention of cavemen, or dinosaurs, yet we know they exist as we have found their remains.

[Cartesiantheater]

For the science question - i have no idea - carbon dating is not my field. Yet my father had access to carbon dating processes far more advanced than that of which is available commercially (i could tell you some horror stories about exactly WHAT sort of technology the military owns), and that this machine have the figure of 2.5 billion years old.

[shrugs] I saw the results myself, i know not how it came to such a figure, but it did.

It couldn't have been carbon dating. Maybe some other radiometric dating system, but not carbon dating. The reason why it couldn't work is because there wouldn't be any carbon 14 to measure after that long. That's what I was trying to tell you about the half life of carbon 14. If you have a sample of x amount of carbon 14, in 5700 years you will have x /4. In another 5700 x /8. Another 5700 x /16. Another 5700 x /32. Then x /64. Then x/128. Then x / 256. Then x / 512.

In 100 000 years you will have x * e ^ ((ln 2)/5700)(100 000) which is

0.000005233 x of what you started with. That's in only one hundred thousand years.

What I'm saying is that in 2.5 billion years there is no way in hell that there will be ANY traceable amount of C14, which means there is no way in hell that C14 dating could be reliable at ALL.


See what I mean?

I only know the math and basic physics of it (not the actual mechanical procedure), but with that alone I know enough to know for certain that there is no way a carbon dating mechanism of any sort can be reliable to measure something that is 2.5 billion years old. It simply is physically impossible.

So it cannot have been carbon dating or the people doing it were ridiculously incompetent.

[DontBeAfraid]

In fact, anything Adam knew he had to come up with. He had no previous example of how to do anything. How did he know how to garden? Why would he even think for a moment that if you put seeds in the ground they sprout and grow? Did he just place them there out of foolishness like a child putting their fingers in their nose?

Even I know the answer to this one! He and eve got the knowledge from the apple.... doofus. Good = cut the cord. Evil = let it rot.

Hey CT, I think Im psykic.... lol.

[Traveler]

anything relating to creation in the bible is sketchy at best. For example the Bible makes no mention of cavemen, or dinosaurs, yet we know they exist as we have found their remains.

Yes it does as far as the caveman goes. After the fall it was God that showed Adam how to use an animal hide to cloath themselves with. Now the scriptures may not mention the word dinosaur but it does describe a dragon rather well. Also it does describe a behemoth which was a giant animal of a type unknown today,

21 ¶ To Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Well there is your first caveman.


As for animals that should not have been around at the time of man

15 ¶ "Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God; He that made him can make His sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river and hasteneth not; he trusteth that he can draw up the Jordan into his mouth.
24 Will any take him with his sight, or bore his nose with a snare?
1 ¶ "Canst thou draw out Leviathan with a hook? Or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put a hook into his nose, or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? Will he speak soft words unto thee?
4 Will he make a covenant with thee? Wilt thou take him as a servant for ever?
5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? Or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? Shall they parcel him among the merchants?
7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons, or his head with fish spears?
8 Lay thine hand upon him; remember the battle, and do so no more!
9 Behold, the hope against him is in vain. Shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up. Who then is able to stand before Me?
11 ¶ Who hath come before Me, that I should repay him? Whatsoever is under the whole heaven is Mine.
12 "I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
13 Who can uncover the face of his garment? Or who can come to him with his double bridle?
14 Who can open the doors of his face? His teeth are terrible round about.
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a tight seal.
16 One is so near to another that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another; they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18 By his sneezings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
23 The folds of his flesh are joined together; they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
24 His heart is as firm as a stone, yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid; by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold— the spear, the dart, nor the breastplate.
27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones are turned by him into stubble.
29 Darts are counted as stubble; he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30 Sharp potsherds are his undersides; he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot; he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
34 He beholdeth all high things; he is a king over all the children of pride."