Satan is the bad guy ????

[Doomer]

Who is the one who doomed all humanity to death because of Adam's disobedience? -- God

Who is the one who drowned almost every man woman child and animal in the world? -- God

Who rains fire and brimstone on towns? Who kills on the slightest infraction? -- God

So, what did Satan do? How come he's the bad guy?

[Cartesiantheater]

Satan made God do all of that... he is a crafty little devil, isn't he?

[Assassin X]

Satan threw that puppy off the cliff.

And Satan DID YO MAMA!

:looks around:

[UVsaturated]

Who is the one who doomed all humanity to death because of Adam's disobedience? -- God

Who is the one who drowned almost every man woman child and animal in the world? -- God

Who rains fire and brimstone on towns? Who kills on the slightest infraction? -- God

So, what did Satan do? How come he's the bad guy?

Satan is the duality of the real God. Consider God temporarily losing his mind because he must test every thing and quality of himself. As long as he regains his composure and makes up for it, I don't see the problem.

[jeffweeder]

Who is the one who doomed all humanity to death because of Adam's disobedience?

you just answered,.Adam.
He was warned about how deadly it was.
The next thing you know hes sitting by watching Eve take the first bite.
I wonder about what was going through his mind, because he knew darn well she would die.....The bastard.

Who is the one who drowned almost every man woman child and animal in the world?

Why almost everbody and almost every animal? something 100 times worse than the bubonic plague had struck mankind,..... lest it infected everything, just 8 people remained clean...........you cant say God didnt wait till the last minute, and then he quarrentined them in the ark, while the disease was eradicated. This is why you and me have our chance at life today.

Who rains fire and brimstone on towns? Who kills on the slightest infraction?

Thats not the way it was at all, God kept putting it off, because Lot reckoned he could save some-----He waited until the good ones got out.

So, what did Satan do? How come he's the bad guy?

He is the one who has it in his heart to destroy Gods idea of love and life.
He manipulated Eves mind, to bring death .through lies and cunning

[UVsaturated]

you just answered,.Adam.
He was warned about how deadly it was.
The next thing you know hes sitting by watching Eve take the first bite.
I wonder about what was going through his mind, because he knew darn well she would die.....The bastard.

He was actually testing God by allowing Eve to test the fruit. He figured, if she didn't keel over, God would be a liar.

[Kevin Lockard]

you just answered,.Adam.
He was warned about how deadly it was.
The next thing you know hes sitting by watching Eve take the first bite.
I wonder about what was going through his mind, because he knew darn well she would die.....The bastard.

An All-Knowing God would be fully aware that that was gonna happen.

Speaking of Satan, wasn't he first created as an angel? Isn't the thing that separates angels in heaven, and human beings on earth, free will? Angels were created only to love and obey God, nothing else. Humans were given that choice.

So, doesn't that mean that Satan could have never rebeled against God, considering he had no power to defy God or think for himself?

I mean, really.

[jeffweeder]

An All-Knowing God would be fully aware that that was gonna happen.

Yep, so? You never appreciate properly until you understand what youve lost. But he clothed them and hinted that restoration was always going to be possible...and that through his own experience of death for them..to teach them about love.

Speaking of Satan, wasn't he first created as an angel?

Maybe

Isn't the thing that separates angels in heaven, and human beings on earth, free will?

no

Angels were created only to love and obey God, nothing else.

How can you love if its not your choice? your talking software.

I mean really

[UVsaturated]

Angels do not have free will. That is why they are called servants of the Lord. A servant does not have free will but must do what their master tells them to do.

Love is an expression of free will in that it cannot be forced upon anyone. True love cannot be forced or coerced in any way. It is and always will be the truth and what is natural. The opposite of love is servitude and lordship, which is unnatural and trickery.

[jeffweeder]

satan was an Angel who rebelled, and others rebelled with him..they must have decided to do this all by themselves.

[UVsaturated]

satan was an Angel who rebelled, and others rebelled with him..they must have decided to do this all by themselves.

No. God told them to do so to carry out his plan, but kept the knowledge of why away from them for a time. They were unaware that it was God who commanded them and thought it was themselves. This is the meaning of why it is called a rebellion, because God allowed a part of his spirit to break away from the whole without their knowledge of it. They then saw themselves as being separate from the whole. It is the heavenly version of death or the separation from God. Our counterpart is when a human dies and is forever separated from the world.

[jeffweeder]

[UVsaturated]

Don't show me your ass, it will burn my eyes and the numerous dingleberries will boggle the mind.

[weederbro]

Although I've posted the refs b4, my guess is no-one read 'em. SO I'll paraphrase 'em!

Rev 12:7-9... ..there was a war in heaven..Michael and his angels fought the dragon and his angels...the dragon and his angels were hurled down to earth....
Isaiah 14:12-15...you said in your heart..I will raise my throne above the stars of God..I will make myself like the most high...
Ezekiel 28:12-19..you were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty....every precious stone adorned you....you were blameless in your ways from the day you were created til wickedness was found in you.....I expelled you, oh guardian cherub...your heart became proud on account of your beauty and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendour.....
2Cor 11:13... satan himself masquerades as an angel of light..it is not surprising then if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve..
2Thess 2:9..The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders....

Ok that last ref wasn't about satan himself but its instructive!
Other names of Satan are: The Devil/ Abaddon/ Apollyon/ Belial/ Beelzebub/ The Dragon/ Serpent and Prince of this world.

If we are going to talk about bible things, lets stick to what IT says about these things, rather than weaving interpretive threads of myth!

I also notice that perhaps some people would be happier OUT of the religeon forum, they seem so irritated.

[UVsaturated]

If we are going to talk about bible things, lets stick to what IT says about these things, rather than weaving interpretive threads of myth!

I also notice that perhaps some people would be happier OUT of the religeon forum, they seem so irritated.

I'm not sure who you're referring to but I am not irritated. I would like to discuss your scriptures, but cannot tackle them all at once. Perhaps if we discussed each one in points and you made note of what they mean to you and how you interpret them we could see what it is you're saying.

I just say this because the bible says many things. You have to hold your bible like you would a heavy double edged sword. You cannot allow it to sway one way or the other for fear it will cut you and your enemies.

[eldingo12]

If we are going to talk about bible things, lets stick to what IT says about these things, rather than weaving interpretive threads of myth!

Irony anyone?

[JenaS62]

Who is the one who doomed all humanity to death because of Adam's disobedience? -- God

Who is the one who drowned almost every man woman child and animal in the world? -- God

Who rains fire and brimstone on towns? Who kills on the slightest infraction? -- God

So, what did Satan do? How come he's the bad guy?

Because "Satan" wanted to give us the knowledge of life, our origins and our purpose and "God" wanted us to stay ignorant and in slavery. "God" therefore started a smeer campaign against "Satan" referring to him as a snake, the Serpent, etc...

[olddragon]

The great RED Dragon......
For this world is mine, I will give to you all you see,
if you will worship me.

[JenaS62]

Well it did not work out that way for Satan. We worshiped the one that kept us down. Way down. WAAAYYYYY DOWN.

[Perfectionist]

Great question !!

However all Religious texts and ideologies are more analogy than reality ..... a means to express certain concepts to people way before mankind had reached an adequate level of understanding of the nature of the universe etc .....

God is Logic and Order ..... all that is Illogical and creates Disorder is Satan ..... Satan creates Chaos therefore he/it is Bad

[MirceaIulian]

I personally believe that Satan is associated with evil because he questioned or dissagreed with God and His infinite wisdom. Maybe Satan is the one that looked at our more primitive cultures and the wars and injustices happening then, and asked God "why would you create a species that does such things. And why dont they all follow your word? and so on and so forth.

Then God got annoyed and told Satan to do something about it, so he created Hell and chose to rule in it, not to punish us for eternity as is said in the bible, but so we can understand our mistakes and learn from them, and atain our entry to heaven.

if there even is a heaven and hell

[weederbro]

First, apologies about my comment about people being irritated. I read it today and I can't understand why I said it now. Perhaps it was I who was irritated!haha..
Eldingo, I hear you, let me explain..

I'm assuming peoples' reactions to the God-Satan thing are derived from their understanding of the bible accounts.
So I presented all I could find in scripture to show you how the story REALLY went.

The bible presents a story of a Father, a life generator. He creates all life seen and unseen, that is to say, physical and spirit life.
He creates the beings in His spirit realm, seemingly before He creates anything physical.
One of these spirit beings rebels and aspires to take over.
Then there's the creation of the earth and all life on earth.
Then mankind. The Father generating 'children'.
The children also rebel.
The Old Testament is the continuing story of The Father reaching out to reconcile the relationship, and the children sometimes responding, but often not.
The New testament is the revelation of the prophesied Messiah in the O.T.
His purpose is to reconcile the children with the Father.
Jesus fulfills all the prophecies, is accused of being a sorcerer and murdered. Exactly as the prophecies predict.
Other prophecies concerning Israel again becoming a nation, and concerning the environment and the eventual falling away of what is generally percieved as 'the church',
are the encouragement for choosing faith. Plus the Holy Spirit indwelling.

That's it in a nutshell.
So if these things are to be discussed, let them be discussed within the context of the bible itself, without interpolation. Whether you believe it or not. If you get my drift.

It pains me to see the comments like those of Jena's for instance, because if we reconcile with the Father, we will walk our way causing no harm at all.
I am not saying it is the ONLY way to walk without causing harm, just that the REAL story isn't evil, as it is accused of being.
The Father made us SOMEWHAT like himself, in that we have free will to choose this way or that way, and we can create songs and paintings and children etc.
It's an incredible misrepresentation to claim The Father wanted enslavement for His children.
Do we want that for ours?
Satan was an egomaniac and aspiring tyrant and it's his spirit that is expressed in all the desecration of the outer and inner worlds.
Nu Kua seems to be the only unbeliever here who understands that I think.(I could be wrong). Anyways ...Just so's you know where I'm coming from.

[UVsaturated]

First, apologies about my comment about people being irritated. I read it today and I can't understand why I said it now. Perhaps it was I who was irritated!haha..
Eldingo, I hear you, let me explain..

Truthfully weederbro, I mentioned it but I have lost any knowledge of being irritated. I never even knew it.

I'm assuming peoples' reactions to the God-Satan thing are derived from their understanding of the bible accounts.
So I presented all I could find in scripture to show you how the story REALLY went.


That's it in a nutshell.
So if these things are to be discussed, let them be discussed within the context of the bible itself, without interpolation. Whether you believe it or not. If you get my drift.

The problem with this is that the bible is not the truth but a way to the truth. Just as religion is not the truth but just an expression of it.

I read through the bible and pondered it extensively to the point of judging every word very carefully for what it was saying and what it is not saying, and the point is that the bible itself is the "milk" that it describes that you need to take the leap of faith and start eating solid meat. A newborn cannot eat meat yet an adult can eat meat or drink milk. So when you talk of using the bible to discuss the truth, you are merely saying lets talk about these things like a child that drinks in a mother's milk. It is bland and its substance should only be used to grow the body, not to as the end all of truth. What you need to do is take what it says and place it within you, then you will see what the argument is.

The Father made us SOMEWHAT like himself, in that we have free will to choose this way or that way, and we can create songs and paintings and children etc.
It's an incredible misrepresentation to claim The Father wanted enslavement for His children.
Do we want that for ours?
Satan was an egomaniac and aspiring tyrant and it's his spirit that is expressed in all the desecration of the outer and inner worlds.
Nu Kua seems to be the only unbeliever here who understands that I think.(I could be wrong). Anyways ...Just so's you know where I'm coming from.

You are almost on to the truth here. This free will you have decided upon is for the true children, not those of Satan who have none because they are slaves.

The reason I say, almost is that you need to find where this free will comes from and why you cannot have it outside your body. What I mean is, you cannot flap your arms to the moon, because you have not discovered why you cannot simply go into a bank and ask them to give you $10,000 for nothing. This is the binding of your will. You have a will that wants things for yourself and others, yet you cannot have what you want. To truly be free, you need to see what the root of the problem is weederbro, and you cannot do that until you stop drinking milk of the literal words of the bible and see the truth behind it. Jesus was a glimpse of that so that it would take the Old Testament and give it a New meaning, not just a dividing of a timeline between writings in a historical context. It has a living message.

[Jake99]

Every time (the U.S. as an example) elects a leader that leader is supporting a private banking, sales, gambling, consumption, corruption, possession of land and industry, profit/prophet based governing system. That is totally Satans way of managing the earth and the proof is in the damage man has left in his wake. I am here to install a world government that is focused on restoring the environment and caring for its inhabitants.

Man got on the wrong path when he started diving the land between each other and selling it to the highest bidder. This has nothing to do with Eve. Draw no lines on the map. No moneychangers or salesman in gods temple. Do not do the works of the judges and wolves in sheeps clothing (politicians).

Man has been rebellious in every way and he thinks he was a servant of god because he went to church and read the bible. Do as the bible demands and believers have faith in and let me the man who walked the bible as Jesus did manage this planet my way. My way has never been mans way.

I am in exactly the same place in the story as Jesus was when he left you and I went through exactly what Jesus did over the last 52 years. The watchman on the wall were fast asleep and now must be woken up to be with the messiah who will lead humans into the kingdom of heaven on earth.

[eldingo12]

Satan was an egomaniac and aspiring tyrant and it's his spirit that is expressed in all the desecration of the outer and inner worlds.

Hey wait a minute.... Who created satan and why?