Police arrest anti-war protester, 80, at mall

***Nu Kua*** · Mar 30th, 2008 5:18 PM

New York-
What crime did this man commit that warranted his forced removal from the mall in a wheelchair?
From what I can gather, he simply refused to change his T-shirt, which noted the " "official" number dead of US troops (4,000) and Iraqi's killed (1 mil) and had the appearance of three bloodstains.

Link

***JenaS62*** · Mar 30th, 2008 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by Nu Kua

New York-
What crime did this man commit that warranted his forced removal from the mall in a wheelchair?
From what I can gather, he simply refused to change his T-shirt, which noted the " "official" number dead of US troops (4,000) and Iraqi's killed (1 mil) and had the appearance of three bloodstains.

Link

Yeah so much for free speech right? Now there are certain approved or disaproved T-shirts for the public? We are on a very slippery slope. Perhaps inappropriate T-Shirts are covered under that HR 1955 bill regarding home grown terrorism. What next?

***Nu Kua*** · Mar 30th, 2008 6:24 PM

+ YouTube Video

***UVsaturated*** · Mar 30th, 2008 6:46 PM

Well, if it happened at a mall, like it says, that is private property. The management has the right to ask him to not offend the other shoppers and if he refuses, and will not leave, then he can be charged with trespassing on private property.

The article makes it sound as if he gets arrested for failing to change his shirt to something less offensive, but I can assure you that probably wasn't what he was charged with.

**Cartesiantheater** · Mar 30th, 2008 7:08 PM

Yes, they have the right to kick people out if it's private property, so long as it isn't violated discrimination laws.

But at the same time, the man is morally obligated to his peaceful protesting. I do not agree with what the mall people did, much like I do not generally agree with abortion, but I feel it is not my place to tell them they can't have some censorship on their own property (just like it isn't my place to tell a woman she cannot have choice).

That being said, whenever their is a wrong going on, people like this man get arrested when they speak out against it. That is the nature of the beast. It happened during the civil rights movement, remember?

However, I have to comment on this:

Originally Posted by original link

As Zirkel was being wheeled to the police car, the crowd chanted "We shall not be moved!" Moments later, they moved; police and mall security had ordered them off the property.

Spineless. They should've been in the cell next to the old man. If you're going to protest, don't do it half-assed.

***UVsaturated*** · Mar 30th, 2008 8:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater

Spineless. They should've been in the cell next to the old man. If you're going to protest, don't do it half-assed.

Well..........I guess if soldiers can die by bullets and shrapnel, and these people protest cannot even bother to spend the night in jail, then it doesn't really say much about their sacrifice that day now does it?

***iulian28ti*** · Mar 31st, 2008 3:53 AM

Take the crow bar and make it right.

***Jake99*** · Mar 31st, 2008 6:44 AM

If not for wars the economies of the world would collapse because the governing systems are based on greed, profits, gambling, military force and possession. I want to eliminate the bankers, land owners and the salesman from the planet just like Jesus tried to do and that in and of its self will resolve nearly every human problem.

A shopping mall is not the place for a protest and if you are endorsing the use of the government the U.S. uses than then the protest is worthless.

***olddragon*** · Mar 31st, 2008 7:17 AM

Jake without all of these trerrible things on the earth, you would starve!

***iulian28ti*** · Mar 31st, 2008 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by olddragon

Jake without all of these trerrible things on the earth, you would starve!

wrong. you will starve soon with all these things on earth. the problem is capitalism

***olddragon*** · Mar 31st, 2008 9:19 AM

No it's just a system, people are the problem

***iulian28ti*** · Mar 31st, 2008 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by olddragon

No it's just a system, people are the problem

Yeah.... so i guess my signature is what i'm gonna say next

***Harry61*** · Mar 31st, 2008 6:11 PM

This wouldn't not be a story if the anti-war protester had been 18 instead of 80. Freedom of speech is still there, but when they have to remove a protester via wheel chair, then all of a sudden he is a victum instead of just another protester.

40 years ago he was probably protesting a different war.

Nu Kua ~ You video was really cool until I noticed the cameras at the street lights. All that remindes me of is someone getting killed at an intersection and then screaming that the govt has to do something about it. I think most of the laws created by the govt, are there because someone thought someone else done them wrong.

Seatbelt enforcement established because someone was killed by not wearing them. Speed limits, same thing. Smoking in public places, same thing. If we are truely a free nation, then we wouldn't have all these stupid laws that someone created because someone they knew or loved were harmed by something.

***DaSoviet*** · Mar 31st, 2008 6:14 PM

Jake your beginning to sound more like a Communist than a Messiah...

Are you sick?

***Nu Kua*** · Mar 31st, 2008 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by Harry61

Nu Kua ~ You video was really cool until I noticed the cameras at the street lights. All that remindes me of is someone getting killed at an intersection and then screaming that the govt has to do something about it. I think most of the laws created by the govt, are there because someone thought someone else done them wrong.

Seatbelt enforcement established because someone was killed by not wearing them. Speed limits, same thing. Smoking in public places, same thing. If we are truely a free nation, then we wouldn't have all these stupid laws that someone created because someone they knew or loved were harmed by something.

That makes sense.
We have created a nanny government, haven't we.
Becoming like children who cannot fend for themselves, we increasingly rely on a caretaker to protect us from harm as well as represent us when have a conflict to resolve.
Decisions are made for us by an authority regarding our personal safety, what can or cannot be shown on TV, heard on the radio, read in the paper or taught in the schools, just like a parent directs and monitors the activities of its children, until the children grow into adulthood and learn to be responsible for themselves.
Will society grow into adulthood? It seems as if American society started out more adult than it is now. People did not have such a nanny government.
If we compare society to a human then, growing from childhood to adulthood, perhaps what society is doing can be related to dementia settling in with some elderly people.
They go from being a responsible, aware adult to needing various levels of supervision and care.

***Jake99*** · Mar 31st, 2008 8:46 PM

Originally Posted by iulian28ti

wrong. you will starve soon with all these things on earth. the problem is capitalism

iulian28ti, You are wise the problems of mankind are 100% a result of the governmental systems that are used. It says that in the bible and it makes perfect mathematical factual sense.

I am 100% against Capitalism and 100% for the simple governing system outlined in the bible and demanded by Jesus. No Moneychangers, No Salesman is the most efficient governing system possible and it would be fair to every person that would ever walk the earth. And all the people making a living off of religion will be out of work because every human problem will be resolved by a simple governing sytem that is non profit and standardized. Capitalism is destroying the planet in leaps and bounds while the prideful claim they are the way.

When will the prideful Christians practice what they preach? And when will the Christians stop lying about being saved and claiming they are in the likeness of Jesus?

The Jews think they will be given land in a kingdom and I never could imagine god allowing such a viscious act as that. The Jews are NOT special.

**Cartesiantheater** · Mar 31st, 2008 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by DaSoviet

Jake your beginning to sound more like a Communist than a Messiah...

Are you sick?

It could be argued that Jesus was more of a commie than a capitalist.

***olddragon*** · Mar 31st, 2008 9:03 PM

Jake you do not believe that The jews are gods chosen people?
Does not the bible say they are?

***DaSoviet*** · Apr 1st, 2008 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater

It could be argued that Jesus was more of a commie than a capitalist.

Yea, he was all give and no take...

**warlock** · Apr 1st, 2008 12:47 PM

very soon the dollar value will hit zero and collaspe. following a U.S. airstrike on Iran starting world war III then millions in America will riot and protest then the illuminatii gestapo troops of the Bush/Cheney regime will round up protesters and rioters and take them by train to the FEMA civilian detention camps.

**Cartesiantheater** · Apr 1st, 2008 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by DaSoviet

Yea, he was all give and no take...

Remember the two fish and five loaves of bread? He took a collection, then magically multiplied it, then destributed it to the crowd, each according to his need.

Do you remember the situation with the poor woman who gave a small coin for the offering? How he praised her saying she had given more than anyone else? Each according to his ability.