Reasons for Homophobia?

[olddragon]

Eco, to hate some one for their life style is wrong.
To justify and defend rape is wrong.
Doing wrong is sinful.
The wages of sin is death or have you forgotten?
No one is impressed with this, they may be depressed that someone could be so hateful.

[ecosikz]

But you do expect some of us to be?

I don't expect anyone to be impressed[/quote]

I think I can speak for at least 98% of the board in saying "We're really not impressed".

I never really gave a shit about it to begin with...

Terrorism is widely publicized and happens over large portions of the middle-east. Normal?

Yes, once somebody tells me that some animals are homo sexuals and since some people believe we came from animals then that opens the door to a lot of crazy sick shit, some animals rape their mates, husbands rape their wives, if the animals can do it being considered a normal habit and part of evolution, then someone raping another person is considered normal, some people think they can pick and choose whats wrong and whats right, no it doesn't work that way, if homosexuality has something to do with basic instincts, just like rape is the cause of alot of the past mass population build up by forceful reproduction.

Jason Dick Wrote:

Furthermore, it is actually quite ludicrous to claim that rape is not a product of evolution, as we ourselves are a product of evolution. This in no way validates rape, of course. Evolution does in no way guarantee that its products are morally pristine. Evolution only care about one thing: reproduction. And rape can lead to reproductive success to those who engage in it.

Did I mention you're truly one of the stupidest people I have come across? What's going to happen to us, Eco? We going to hell for not hating people? Think you might need to go reread your good book.

if you actually read the bible and understood what it says against homosexuality, then yes, supporting homosexuality and condoning it is a sin and you would goto hell, but im not the judge, God is.. btw why is it that you call me stupid, which gives me the impression that you must have low self-esteem..

So you do hate yourself?

Nope.

No, you don't

ya i do.

Eco, to hate some one for their life style is wrong.

people hate christians for what they believe in.. I only hate the sin the homosexuals are committing.. not the people..

To justify and defend rape is wrong.

Homosexuality is wrong..

Doing wrong is sinful.

Homosexuals are committing a sinful act..

The wages of sin is death or have you forgotten?

no I haven't forgotten that.. The wages of their sin is death, thus they will be slaughtered like petty animals..

No one is impressed with this, they may be depressed that someone could be so hateful.

if they are that depressed then they don't know what hate really is..

[UVsaturated]

Hey Eco, you do know the bible says only this;

You shall not lie with a man the same way you shall lie with a woman.

Taken at face value - like you are doing - it is a commandment that a man should not have sex with another man, but since you wish to see what you want to see, you aren't reading it for what it actually means.

It is not a commandment at all, but a statement in the spiritual sense, and if you understood it at all, you would not condemn a homosexual ever again because of hateful religious doctrine that has little power to save you.

I have repeated before on these boards that spiritually speaking, man was made in the image of God as spirit (spin-off of God). Woman is the flesh or the physical realm. So when the bible says you shall not lie with a woman the same as you would a man, it is speaking in spiritual terms that when the spirit becomes one with the flesh it does so by being inside of it in a harmonious way that produces offspring, but when the spirit becomes one with another spirit, it cannot produce anything, because they are alike in manner. It is only the combination of the spirit and the flesh that can produce manifestations which are a hybrid between the physical and the spiritual.

The bible uses things we know of physically to describe things on a higher level in the spiritual realms. When you are blind, you think only that the bible is talking in carnal terms.

Now go out and ask the homosexuals for forgiveness since you obviously think God hates fags.

[ecosikz]

Hey Eco, you do know the bible says only this;

You shall not lie with a man the same way you shall lie with a woman.

When you are blind, you think only that the bible is talking in carnal terms.

Now go out and ask the homosexuals for forgiveness since you obviously think God hates fags.

Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do with evil. Psalms 101:4

I will never ask their sinfulness for forgiveness!

[UVsaturated]

I will never ask their sinfulness for forgiveness!

Perhaps its best then. You are not yet humble enough to see the love of God for you have not the fullness of mercy within your soul.

[ecosikz]

Perhaps its best then. You are not yet humble enough to see the love of God for you have not the fullness of mercy within your soul.

God hates sin and he shows no mercy to sin! I hate sin! sin is a deadly disease, thus I hate the sin these sinners are committing! I have mercy for the people! but I shall show no mercy for their sin!

[Crimepunisher]

Yes, once somebody tells me that some animals are homo sexuals and since some people believe we came from animals then that opens the door to a lot of crazy sick shit, some animals rape their mates, husbands rape their wives, if the animals can do it being considered a normal habit and part of evolution, then someone raping another person is considered normal, some people think they can pick and choose whats wrong and whats right, no it doesn't work that way, if homosexuality has something to do with basic instincts, just like rape is the cause of alot of the past mass population build up by forceful reproduction.

I don't think the concept of evolution applies to you. And I have not heard of a case of animal rape considering only a few species have sex for pleasure to begin with.

if you actually read the bible and understood what it says against homosexuality, then yes, supporting homosexuality and condoning it is a sin and you would goto hell, but im not the judge, God is.. btw why is it that you call me stupid, which gives me the impression that you must have low self-esteem..

You know in the Bible there are fewer condemnations of Homosexuality than there are what is considered normal Heterosexual behavior today? I'd go count but, frankly I have better things to read.

And you're not Freud, don't try to be, you're an idiot.

ya i do.

No, you don't

people hate christians for what they believe in.. I only hate the sin the homosexuals are committing.. not the people..

People hate Christians because a mass portion of them seems to enjoy forcing their religion so far down your throat you can actually feel it in your ass, and then they like to damn you to hell if you don't fall in with them. Not because of what they believe.

Homosexuality is wrong..

Prove it without use of your Bible, that's like me using Harry Potter to defend the War in Iraq.

"But Hogwarts is a metaphor for America and Saddam Hussein is obviously Voldemort durr"

Homosexuals are committing a sinful act..

Your parents committed a sinful act, and look, they made you.

if they are that depressed then they don't know what hate really is..

But you do? I'm sure you know hate, sitting in your room, pissed that your mom didn't buy you the overalls and trench coat you've wanted for so long.

I will never ask their sinfulness for forgiveness!

You going to write a song about it now?

God hates sin and he shows no mercy to sin!

Apparently shows no mercy to kindness either

I hate sin! sin is a deadly disease, thus I hate the sin these sinners are committing!

No. Cancer is a deadly disease, sin is just the perception of wrongdoing in the eyes of those too arrogant to see the actual problems in the world.

I have mercy for the people! but I shall show no mercy for their sin!

What are you going to do, send them angry private messages? Or just tell your mom not to shop at their stores anymore?

[Nu Kua]

There is enough evidence suggesting a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality that one would be hard pressed to deny it.

Physical differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals:

"A difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men"

The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hoffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men.


The anterior commissure is larger in women than men, and larger in gay men than in non-gay men:

Lesbian and bi-sexual women have hearing responses more like men

Gay and non-gay people have different armpit scents

Gay men are more likely to have a counter-clockwise scalp hair-whorl


Gay men have bigger penises on average than straight men.
(this hardly seems practical, nor fair to the ladies...)


Homosexuals are more likely to be left handed

In men, homosexual orientation correlates with the number of older brothers.


These are just the few listed that I had time to look up and verify the study.

And, homosexuality is also known to be a fact within the animal kingdom as well, especially among the more group-social animals. I don't feel like looking for the studies, but here is an article on it.


A person who believes in the creation of life by an infallible God would have to either accept homosexuality as an inborn trait and not a demonic affliction, or accept that God made a mistake. Which is it?


If this post sounds familiar, I originally posted this on this thread; I felt it Ok to copy and paste it verbatim, thereby repeating myself, since god knows this topic certainly repeats itself enough we probably ought to just make templates for posting.

[UVsaturated]

Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do with evil. Psalms 101:4

I will never ask their sinfulness for forgiveness!

Eco, Psalms 101:4 doesn't say anything about homosexuality being perverse, it says that if your heart is perverse you shall be far from God. A perverse heart is one that is not of love. By hating anyone, you are not loving them. You hate them because you think God has condemned an action as wicked. It is wicked because you have read the bible literally instead of spiritually. If you take the bible literally you should also do a lot of other things that you obviously are doing.

Are you stoning women who are adulterers? By taking the bible literally, it is your duty as a man to kill adulteress women outside of the city by stoning. Are you doing that or are you denying God justice he demands?

[Smoke]

butt secks is grosse?

[olddragon]

Germany unveils monument to Gays.
Hitler had thousands arrested tried and castrated.
Thousands more were sent to concentration camps and murdered.
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...rpc=22&sp=true

Maybe we can learn that hatred is not the answer.

[ecosikz]

I don't think the concept of evolution applies to you.

it applies to us all or do you not remember?
And I have not heard of a case of animal rape considering only a few species have sex for pleasure to begin with.[/quote] might want to do some research then, eh?

I did.
Dr. Lou Natic

Yes it happens in chimps and gorillas, monkeys, also all kinds of pinnipeds(where even pedophilic rape is common). Fraggle there has definately been more than one case of dolphin rape, I have seen more than 1 case on television so I'm sure it happens quite a bit. Apparently it won't happen within a group, but rival groups will kidnap females from eachother and may keep them hostage and rape them repeatedly for weeks.
It is also common in whales, infact many whales seem to have evolved penises especially designed for rape. I've witnessed whale rape and the female would try to twist and turn out of the way but the males penis was so long and manuveurable that it could just wrap around her and probe its way into her sex organ.
Even fish, except its not exactly rape. Some fish will sneak in and fertilise a females eggs even though she hasn't given consent, while the male she did give consent to isn't watching. Its not penetration, but still.
If you are trying to figure out if its a natural behaviour in humans I'm sure it is. As in I'm sure its occurred since before we even became a species and all the way up untill now where it still occurs. The first homo sapien may have even been concieved by way of rape (that would be quite fitting if you ask me).

Fraggle, I don't agree that females need to be in estrus for males to even get an erection because my cousins female dog became stuck in their fence with her backside sticking out to the street and a stray dog litterally raped her. She had been spayed for years so she definately wasn't in estrus.

Its not surprising that rape is common in the animal kingdom (probably the plant kingdom too but i wouldn't know), any behaviour that continues your genetic legacy is favoured by evolution. In case you haven't noticed, nature doesn't much care for the rights of individuals.

Fraggle Rocker:

About fifteen years ago I read an article reporting that the dolphins off the coast of Australia engage in rape. In a three dimensional environment, for an animal with no arms, it's not easy. So they have to do a gang rape. Three bulls corner a cow and take turns, one having intercourse while the other two pen her in and keep her from swimming away. And three more participate -- they stand guard a short distance away to prevent anyone from coming to her rescue.

and here is a very true statement by Spidergoat:

Getting consent for sex is a human social construction. In nature, sexual partners are often determined amongst competing males, and has nothing to do with the female's "wishes". You just have to watch some of those nature shows on public TV to see it.

You know in the Bible there are fewer condemnations of Homosexuality than there are what is considered normal Heterosexual behavior today? I'd go count but, frankly I have better things to read.

yes and I think that is really stupid! I already know that there's alot of bad things of heterosexuality behavior nowadays, but the reason I'm going after Homosexuality is because its a small problem and its much easier to solve a small problem while its still small, instead of waiting for it to become a huge problem. I like to work on small problems before I move onto much bigger problems, I like to think it helps, what do you think?

And you're not Freud, don't try to be, you're an idiot.

I like Freud,John Douglas,Russell Smith,and Nicholas Groth

No, you don't

Yes, I do.

People hate Christians because a mass portion of them seems to enjoy forcing their religion so far down your throat you can actually feel it in your ass, and then they like to damn you to hell if you don't fall in with them. Not because of what they believe.

olddragon:

Maybe we can learn that hatred is not the answer.

people hate christians as people! christians hate homosexuals because they are sinning and Christians hate seeing people sin! they hate the persons sin! not the person! So we arn't doing anything wrong! Christians don't hatee people! they hate the sin! people hate Christians for their beliefs! Christians are hated as a group of believers in God! thus you hate them as a group of people! so the people who hate christians are cold,arrogant,discriminators of religious people!
if you think Christians hate people for who they are, you must really be stupid!

Prove it without use of your Bible

I will but im really busy for 3 days but ill make 5-10 paragraphs of why its wrong, so be ready to read it.

Your parents committed a sinful act, and look, they made you.

LOL!

But you do? I'm sure you know hate, sitting in your room, pissed that your mom didn't buy you the overalls and trench coat you've wanted for so long.

wow, now you make shit up trying to insult me, who's next?

You going to write a song about it now?

Maybe! Whats it to ya?!

Apparently shows no mercy to kindness either

those who aren't kind get the lords boot up their ass, flying straight for the gates of Hell!

No. Cancer is a deadly disease, sin is just the perception of wrongdoing in the eyes of those too arrogant to see the actual problems in the world.

Sin is like HIV, its Transportable..

What are you going to do, send them angry private messages? Or just tell your mom not to shop at their stores anymore?

why are you bringing my mom into this discussion?
I got my own car dickcheese. LOL!

Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do with evil. Psalms 101:4
Are you stoning women who are adulterers? By taking the bible literally, it is your duty as a man to kill adulteress women outside of the city by stoning. Are you doing that or are you denying God justice he demands?

God will judge them, not me..
that came from the OT, which we aren't allowed to condemn the sinners.. God will do it himself...

butt secks is grosse?

aren't all butts the same?

Germany unveils monument to Gays.
Hitler had thousands arrested tried and castrated.
Thousands more were sent to concentration camps and murdered.
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...rpc=22&sp=true

Maybe we can learn that hatred is not the answer.

ya... they didn't just hate the sin, they hated the people committing the sin.. which isn't a righteous thing to do..

[Crimepunisher]

it applies to us all or do you not remember?

Good thing you can take an insult [/sarcasm]

might want to do some research then, eh?

I have and still haven't found anything, would you like to submit a source or is there more Bible logic to be had?

yes and I think that is really stupid!

So you think the Bible's stupid? Watch out, Eco, just might be ona first-class tour bus to hell with that sort of reasoning.

I already know that there's alot of bad things of heterosexuality behavior nowadays, but the reason I'm going after Homosexuality is because its a small problem and its much easier to solve a small problem while its still small, instead of waiting for it to become a huge problem. I like to work on small problems before I move onto much bigger problems, I like to think it helps, what do you think?

It's not a problem, if it were a problem there'd be mass unification to solve it, Instead you have people like Fred Phelps and other "hot topic" pastors (part of a loose conglomerate) telling people why God hates them and how they're the source of all problems today.

And I think you're trying to change the subject.

Yes, I do.

No, you don't

people hate christians as people! christians hate homosexuals because they are sinning and Christians hate seeing people sin! they hate the persons sin! not the person! So we arn't doing anything wrong!

No, they hate they're shit-headed policies towards other people of different cultures and upbringings. I don't think 9 out of 10 people who don't identify themselves as Christians really give two shits what religion or creed you belong to so long as it doesn't infringe on other aspects of life a la Christianity.

And if you hate the sin (and not the person) then why not more effort against drunk driving rather than homosexuality? I can guarantee unsafe driving kills more people a year than homosexuality does. Or why not more effort to prevent spousal or child abuse?

people hate Christians for their beliefs! Christians are hated as a group of believers in God! thus you hate them as a group of people! so the people who hate christians are cold,arrogant,discriminators of religious people!
if you think Christians hate people for who they are, you must really be stupid!

You really need to look into the history of Christianity before you continue posts like that. Maybe you should read into the Crusades or the Inquisition, try to rack up a death toll while you're at it.

Your little "Christians r teh underdawg" speech is flawed in every sense of the word, Christianity is the most popular religion in the world which right there makes it more likely that other religions are antagonized much more than Christianity ever has. And don't try to tell me Christians are teh nicezorz because I think that, while I'm sure some are, for the most part it's bullshit.

I will but im really busy for 3 days but ill make 5-10 paragraphs of why its wrong, so be ready to read it.

Can't wait

wow, now you make shit up trying to insult me, who's next?

You insult yourself, I don't have to say a word to watch you look like an idiot. And we all know I'm not making up anything.

those who aren't kind get the lords boot up their ass, flying straight for the gates of Hell!

So we're kicked towards a Norse maiden?

Oh, wait, you're Christian, forgot...

...So we're kicked towards a heathen maiden?!?! Oh, please no!

Sin is like HIV, its Transportable..

Is that the next Jason Statham movie or are you just joking?

I got my own car dickcheese. LOL!

Bet your mom bought it for you, eh?

God will judge them, not me..

So you're above being judged now? Pretty sure that qualifies as a sin in some extent, Eco. Pretty sure by your own words we all have the right to deem you be banned until you're free of the sin.

ya... they didn't just hate the sin, they hated the people committing the sin.. which isn't a righteous thing to do..

So should they have raped the sin out of them instead?

[olddragon]

Eco, you defend and admire rapist, now you hate homosexuals.
Are you having an identity crisis?
Or are you simply a bigot, perverted, ass?

[UVsaturated]

The stubborn adherence to biblical words from some people amazes me. I just wish the Bible writers would have thrown in something simplistic like "Thou shall learn to cook well" so religious zealots would have something harmless to aspire to.

[Nu Kua]

The stubborn adherence to biblical words from some people amazes me.

Not me, I've been there. The adherence to tautology is a way to keep from thinking on your own. It's how some were taught, to believe blindly without thinking critically.

I am just waiting for somebody to explain to me how:

A perfect God created the universe, the earth, and all life in it.
A perfect God who created humans in his likeness.
Medical science has actually verified physical evidence that some people are born homosexual.
Medical science has actually verified physical evidence that some animals engage in homosexual behavior as of instinct.
This isn't conjecture or philosophical thinking- there is proof of what I've spoken of above- so it cannot be denied.

So back to the beginning- if God is a perfect God who knows all and created all, and he created these humans who were born to be homosexual, then how can one suggest that being homosexual is a sin, is against God, without implying that God made a mistake?

It is the most obvious flaw in the argument.

Also, if someone says "I hate the sin, but not the sinner" then how can you hate something if you not cannot see the act, and the act itself has no bearing on the quality of your life, and there are no victims involved?
(sans those people, gay or straight, who insist on overt public displays of affection. I also do not like anybody's sexual proclivities thrown in my face, gay or straight. I don't want to hear about anybody's sex life, either.)

Why the hatred of someone because of the type of mutually consensual sex they might engage in? Mutually consensual means no victims- and unless we are directly involved and affected, the private life of other adults is none of our concern if all parties are willing and so inclined.

Also, I cannot think of one major real problem we have in our country or our world that would be solved or alleviated if we only got rid of those pesky homosexuals.
I'd be broken hearted, actually- who would host clothing or home design reality shows, otherwise?

[serge_regulator]

Not me, I've been there. The adherence to tautology is a way to keep from thinking on your own. It's how some were taught, to believe blindly without thinking critically.

I dont equate faith with ignorance or lacking the ability of associative thought. However, blindly clinging to corrupted ideology is ignorant.

I am just waiting for somebody to explain to me how:

A perfect God created the universe, the earth, and all life in it.
A perfect God who created humans in his likeness.
Medical science has actually verified physical evidence that some people are born homosexual.
Medical science has actually verified physical evidence that some animals engage in homosexual behavior as of instinct.
This isn't conjecture or philosophical thinking- there is proof of what I've spoken of above- so it cannot be denied.

So back to the beginning- if God is a perfect God who knows all and created all, and he created these humans who were born to be homosexual, then how can one suggest that being homosexual is a sin, is against God, without implying that God made a mistake?

It is the most obvious flaw in the argument.

I have been on both sides of this argument in the past. God created man and gave him free will. That doesnt mean that everything man does is OK with God or anyone else. God created homosexuals. God also created gay-bashers and racists and war mongers and mass murderers and people who go on a rampage when their soccer team wins/loses/ties/doesnt play/whatever. Just because God created life on earth does not mean that everything life does is perfect or that God is flawed for allowing his creation to make its own decisions. If God made no mistakes and made us in his image to be perfect there would be no such thing as sin. That obviously isnt the case. The bible says a man should not lay with another man the same way he would lay with a woman. The literal translation of "lay with" in this context is "have marital relations with". It is the origin of the phrase "getting laid". There is only one meaning and it is quite clear. When I was younger I was opposed to homosexuality and believed it to be wrong in every sense. As I grew older my opinion has tempered and my present state of mind is one of cautious tolerance. Personally I still believe that as far as the bible is concerned homosexuality is wrong but I also believe it is not up to mankind to make that judgement. Therefore, my belief is my own and I do not use it to try to control the behavior of others.

Also, if someone says "I hate the sin, but not the sinner" then how can you hate something if you not cannot see the act, and the act itself has no bearing on the quality of your life, and there are no victims involved?
(sans those people, gay or straight, who insist on overt public displays of affection. I also do not like anybody's sexual proclivities thrown in my face, gay or straight. I don't want to hear about anybody's sex life, either.)

Why the hatred of someone because of the type of mutually consensual sex they might engage in? Mutually consensual means no victims- and unless we are directly involved and affected, the private life of other adults is none of our concern if all parties are willing and so inclined.

Also, I cannot think of one major real problem we have in our country or our world that would be solved or alleviated if we only got rid of those pesky homosexuals.
I'd be broken hearted, actually- who would host clothing or home design reality shows, otherwise?

I dont have a problem with what happens behind closed doors. What I have a problem with is over-the-top public displays and, more importantly, when what should stay behind closed doors goes into the classroom. I dont want anyone telling my ten year old that Billy has two daddies and thats ok. My ten year old doesnt need to know ANYTHING about Billy's family - straight, gay, or otherwise. And if he does need to know some day, I want to be the one to tell him about it.

[brodyhyde]

What I have a problem with is over-the-top public displays and, more importantly, when what should stay behind closed doors goes into the classroom. I dont want anyone telling my ten year old that Billy has two daddies and thats ok. My ten year old doesnt need to know ANYTHING about Billy's family - straight, gay, or otherwise. And if he does need to know some day, I want to be the one to tell him about it.

I couldn't agree more.

Of course any minority group trying to claim rights and acceptance will be in your face at first, but I agree, enough is enough with the in your face gay sex shit.

[Nu Kua]

I have been on both sides of this argument in the past. God created man and gave him free will. That doesnt mean that everything man does is OK with God or anyone else. God created homosexuals. God also created gay-bashers and racists and war mongers and mass murderers and people who go on a rampage when their soccer team wins/loses/ties/doesnt play/whatever. Just because God created life on earth does not mean that everything life does is perfect or that God is flawed for allowing his creation to make its own decisions. If God made no mistakes and made us in his image to be perfect there would be no such thing as sin. That obviously isnt the case. The bible says a man should not lay with another man the same way he would lay with a woman. The literal translation of "lay with" in this context is "have marital relations with". It is the origin of the phrase "getting laid". There is only one meaning and it is quite clear. When I was younger I was opposed to homosexuality and believed it to be wrong in every sense. As I grew older my opinion has tempered and my present state of mind is one of cautious tolerance. Personally I still believe that as far as the bible is concerned homosexuality is wrong but I also believe it is not up to mankind to make that judgement. Therefore, my belief is my own and I do not use it to try to control the behavior of others.

That's a really good post.
And I am perfectly OK with this stance, simply because you do NOT try to bash your beliefs over the heads of others. It isn't a persons beliefs I have trouble with, its the hatred that some of those beliefs do cause in some people, and in some cases, hateful behavior.
You, however, have shown time and again that a person can find truth in biblical teachings and also be a person who believes in God, yet NOT be flat minded nor tautological in your thinking, nor excessively judgmental. Because of the noisy few who do make it their lifes work to go about bashing anybody who doesn't follow their way, the movement needs more critically thinking Christians who are willing to take a stand.
I do not know if you are a Christian or not, but if you are, then you give Christians a good name. Jesus would be proud. :-)

I dont have a problem with what happens behind closed doors. What I have a problem with is over-the-top public displays and, more importantly, when what should stay behind closed doors goes into the classroom. I dont want anyone telling my ten year old that Billy has two daddies and thats ok. My ten year old doesnt need to know ANYTHING about Billy's family - straight, gay, or otherwise. And if he does need to know some day, I want to be the one to tell him about it.

It is a parents job to teach morals to their children, not the job of the school.
I can respect a persons right to not have their child be taught something that might go against beliefs you might feel strongly about.
However, I do not feel the education itself should be withdrawn altogether. Rather, all parents should be notified beforehand and any parent should have the right to say "No, not for my child" and withdraw their child from that part of the program.

[serge_regulator]

That's a really good post.
And I am perfectly OK with this stance, simply because you do NOT try to bash your beliefs over the heads of others. It isn't a persons beliefs I have trouble with, its the hatred that some of those beliefs do cause in some people, and in some cases, hateful behavior.
You, however, have shown time and again that a person can find truth in biblical teachings and also be a person who believes in God, yet NOT be flat minded nor tautological in your thinking, nor excessively judgmental. Because of the noisy few who do make it their lifes work to go about bashing anybody who doesn't follow their way, the movement needs more critically thinking Christians who are willing to take a stand.
I do not know if you are a Christian or not, but if you are, then you give Christians a good name. Jesus would be proud. :-)

I am Christian. What a wonderful compliment. Thank you so much. :-)

It is a parents job to teach morals to their children, not the job of the school.
I can respect a persons right to not have their child be taught something that might go against beliefs you might feel strongly about.
However, I do not feel the education itself should be withdrawn altogether. Rather, all parents should be notified beforehand and any parent should have the right to say "No, not for my child" and withdraw their child from that part of the program.

Agreed. Knowledge itself is not a bad thing but I think there needs to be some logical, respectful thought given to proper dissemination of that knowledge - especially where children are concerned.

[usohypocrisy]

the reason for homophobia?

hmmm...let's see hypocrisy, hate just to hate, don't like people being different, ignorance, cranial rectal inversion, stupidity, hiding something in their own lives, too afraid to come out themselves.

[Stabby Joe]

That's a really good post.
And I am perfectly OK with this stance, simply because you do NOT try to bash your beliefs over the heads of others. It isn't a persons beliefs I have trouble with, its the hatred that some of those beliefs do cause in some people, and in some cases, hateful behavior.
You, however, have shown time and again that a person can find truth in biblical teachings and also be a person who believes in God, yet NOT be flat minded nor tautological in your thinking, nor excessively judgmental. Because of the noisy few who do make it their lifes work to go about bashing anybody who doesn't follow their way, the movement needs more critically thinking Christians who are willing to take a stand.
I do not know if you are a Christian or not, but if you are, then you give Christians a good name. Jesus would be proud. :-)

Exaclly and good for you serge to. Like I've said in the past, its "love thy neighbour", not "love thy Christian neighbour".

I just wish the Bible writers would have thrown in something simplistic like "Thou shall learn to cook well" so religious zealots would have something harmless to aspire to.

You've actually brought up something worth noting here. In much of religion theres to much "Thou shalt NOT...", which is why much of history has been bitter as opposed to "Thou SHALT...", do good deeds instead of just not doing bad deeds because the other blind faithful start saying what they should do... which usually ends up being more hate and shalt nots.

[ecosikz]

I have and still haven't found anything, would you like to submit a source or is there more Bible logic to be had?

this isn't from the bible:

Furthermore, it is actually quite ludicrous to claim that rape is not a product of evolution, as we ourselves are a product of evolution. This in no way validates rape, of course.

Rape is apart of Evolution and so is Homosexuality.. some animals homosexuals right? and some animals rape other animals(being of the same species ofcourse), so if we came from animals, animals that rape and are homosexuals, your obviously agreeing with rape as apart of some human survival instinct, if some people are born homosexual, then that means some people are born to rape other people... its apart of evolution.

Evolution does in no way guarantee that its products are morally pristine. Evolution only care about one thing: reproduction. And rape can lead to reproductive success to those who engage in it.
The uplifting thing is that humans are finally waking up. We are finally becoming conscious of ourselves and of our surroundings. We are no longer slaves to our base desires and drives.

accepting homosexuality would allow us to except rape, but people are starting to wake up and finally becoming conscious of ourselves, rape and homosexuality are apart of our past base desires and drives, to allow us to go back to being slaves to our past base desires and drives, would indeed be a mistake would it not?

We can choose what we want and what we do not want for ourselves. And the realization that rape is a product of evolution will only better inform us on ways in which rape can be prevented.

and also prevent homosexuality.

In the long term, we may even get to the point where we can control our own evolution, and remove the desire to rape entirely from our genome.

see CP, we can remove the desire to rape and to be homosexuals from our genome.

In the mean time, the best we can do is understand the causes of rape, and work to prevent the situations where rape occurs from appearing. Studying rape in the light of evolution can help us to do that. Failing to do so risks blinding us of potential ways of preventing rape.

this is also an argument against homosexuality.

So you think the Bible's stupid?

Nope, I was saying that homosexuality is a small problem and should be solved before it becomes a bigger problem in the near future.

It's not a problem, if it were a problem there'd be mass unification to solve it, Instead you have people like Fred Phelps and other "hot topic" pastors (part of a loose conglomerate) telling people why God hates them and how they're the source of all problems today.

I've noticed that oil wasn't a problem and i noticed that air pollution wasn't a problem awhile back, but most people think its become a problem.. that should have been prevented.. unprotected sex wasn't a big problem a couple years ago, but now it is... so instead of me thinking like an ignorant piss ant, I'm wanting these things to be prevented! I don't support everything about rape and what it stands for.. but I do want people to know how stupid they look when they say homosexuality is apart of Evolution, yet so is rape and they don't like it! LOL!

No, you don't

Yes, I do.

And if you hate the sin (and not the person) then why not more effort against drunk driving rather than homosexuality?

I'm against people getting married and then getting divorced after like 6months-2 years of being married... I'm against people getting divorced while they have kids... and thats why some kids commit suicide... or better yet, grow up to be a distructive person, which they are more likely to become alcoholics..
there is a reason why there are heterosexuals CP.. whats the child of 2 homosexual men going to think when he finds out his parents aren't even apart of how humans reproduce? oh it doesn't matter, maybe by then the scientist could come up with soemthing, that'll turn homosexual parents lies into camouflaged BS!

I can guarantee unsafe driving kills more people a year than homosexuality does. Or why not more effort to prevent spousal or child abuse?

do you not know that having 2 homosexual parents can actually mentally harm the child who is living with their 2 homosexual parents? and since it is mentally harming the child that could be seen as abuse, even though the homosexual parents don't know it...

You really need to look into the history of Christianity before you continue posts like that. Maybe you should read into the Crusades or the Inquisition, try to rack up a death toll while you're at it.

Its much easier to solve small problems before you solve the big problems..
You seem to want to have the big problems solved, well thats not how it works bucko.. the big problems are now much harder to solve, than the small small problems..

Christianity is the most popular religion in the world which right there makes it more likely that other religions are antagonized much more than Christianity ever has.

all they did was get 10 people in a room and did a poll to see how many people told them they were Christians.. then they decided to super size the percentage... they didn't go over to everyones house! which makes the stats and percentage! WRONG! FLAWED!

And don't try to tell me Christians are teh nicezorz because I think that, while I'm sure some are, for the most part it's bullshit.

Don't judge the whole
Christian population just because the Christians you see and know are actually hypocrites.

Bet your mom bought it for you, eh?

maybe your mom buys you those kinda things, but mine doesn't.

So you're above being judged now?

I don't Judge them.. but God Will, and God will also Judge me, so stop trying to misinterpret my posts ok? ty.

Eco, you defend and admire rapist, now you hate homosexuals.
Are you having an identity crisis?
Or are you simply a bigot, perverted, ass?

I don't admire rapists.... I act like I admire them to show people how stupid it is to admire rape which apart of evolution, just like homosexuality is being claimed to being apart of evolution.. people want to except homosexuality as being apart of evolution but once they hear that rape is also apart of evolution they deny it ever being apart of evolution, which is stupid, because if you can't except rape as being apart of evolution, but can except homsexuality as being apart of evolution, then that makes no sense! which makes that person look stupid!

I am just waiting for somebody to explain to me how:

A perfect God created the universe, the earth, and all life in it.

Because he can

A perfect God who created humans in his likeness.

because he can

Medical science has actually verified physical evidence that some people are born homosexual.

medical science has also verified rape being apart of some human behavioral instincts, which some are born with, the thing is.. some people really don't want to believe it, especially you Nu Kua.

Medical science has actually verified physical evidence that some animals engage in homosexual behavior as of instinct.

They've also verified that some animals have rape like behavior as of instincts.

So back to the beginning- if God is a perfect God who knows all and created all, and he created these humans who were born to be homosexual, then how can one suggest that being homosexual is a sin, is against God, without implying that God made a mistake?

In the beginning God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, not Eve and Eve, but just Adam and Eve!

Also, if someone says "I hate the sin, but not the sinner" then how can you hate something if you not cannot see the act, and the act itself has no bearing on the quality of your life, and there are no victims involved?

I heard homosexual women are wanting to kids, so they go to the sperm bank to get some sperm to get planted in their eggs... and a lot of the guys in the community i live in.. are going to the sperm banks and getting their sperm destroyed! 1 of my freinds heard about this and he said: "those F***ing F*****s aren't getting my sperm!". If homosexuality is natural.. why do they need a sperm bank? why do 2 men have to adopt a child? if its natural then they should be able to reproduce, omg! wait! wait a minute! they can't! LOL!

Also, I cannot think of one major real problem we have in our country or our world that would be solved or alleviated if we only got rid of those pesky homosexuals.
I'd be broken hearted, actually- who would host clothing or home design reality shows, otherwise?

stereotyping homosexuals... I know someone who is homosexual.. and I showed him what you posted and he called you a stereotypical bitch... wow.... LOL!!!!!

[lycanox]

this isn't from the bible:
Rape is apart of Evolution and so is Homosexuality.. some animals homosexuals right? and some animals rape other animals(being of the same species ofcourse), so if we came from animals, animals that rape and are homosexuals, your obviously agreeing with rape as apart of some human survival instinct, if some people are born homosexual, then that means some people are born to rape other people... its apart of evolution.

Evolution formed every biological process in the world, so?

accepting homosexuality would allow us to except rape, but people are starting to wake up and finally becoming conscious of ourselves, rape and homosexuality are apart of our past base desires and drives, to allow us to go back to being slaves to our past base desires and drives, would indeed be a mistake would it not?

Animals don't like rape. But they don't have a problem with homosexuality.
So there your ideas fail.

and also prevent homosexuality.

You cant prevent homosexuality. You cant force people to think different.

see CP, we can remove the desire to rape and to be homosexuals from our genome.
this is also an argument against homosexuality.

No we cant. We have no ideas which genes cause homosexuality. And rape isn't even caused by genetic information.

Nope, I was saying that homosexuality is a small problem and should be solved before it becomes a bigger problem in the near future.

Homosexuality isn't a problem.

Prove one bad thing that homosexuality causes.

I've noticed that oil wasn't a problem and i noticed that air pollution wasn't a problem awhile back, but most people think its become a problem.. that should have been prevented.. unprotected sex wasn't a big problem a couple years ago, but now it is... so instead of me thinking like an ignorant piss ant, I'm wanting these things to be prevented! I don't support everything about rape and what it stands for.. but I do want people to know how stupid they look when they say homosexuality is apart of Evolution, yet so is rape and they don't like it! LOL!

Evolution is blind. It doesn't see whether something is morally bad or good.
As long it causes people to have sex and spread their genes. It stays.
So you cant morally say whether or not something is good or bad by saying that something has evolved.

I'm against people getting married and then getting divorced after like 6months-2 years of being married... I'm against people getting divorced while they have kids... and thats why some kids commit suicide... or better yet, grow up to be a distructive person, which they are more likely to become alcoholics..
there is a reason why there are heterosexuals CP.. whats the child of 2 homosexual men going to think when he finds out his parents aren't even apart of how humans reproduce? oh it doesn't matter, maybe by then the scientist could come up with soemthing, that'll turn homosexual parents lies into camouflaged BS!

Then don't marry.

You have absolutely no right to decide how other people should live.
And there is absolutely no prove that children are off worse in a 2 male family than in a traditional family.

do you not know that having 2 homosexual parents can actually mentally harm the child who is living with their 2 homosexual parents? and since it is mentally harming the child that could be seen as abuse, even though the homosexual parents don't know it...

Again, there is absolutely no prove of that.

Besides, did you know that the biblical traditional family actually goes against human nature. Our natural way of raising kids is to dump them with a packmember and let him/her do ther parenting while the parents are out to gather food.

This caretaker could be a female, or an old man depending on the pack.
But these roles only rarely changed. So its perfectly normal that a child got raised by only one male or one female for most of the time.

Its much easier to solve small problems before you solve the big problems..
You seem to want to have the big problems solved, well thats not how it works bucko.. the big problems are now much harder to solve, than the small small problems..

The only people that see a problem in homosexuality are racist religious bigots.
The easiest way to solve that is simply to get rid of racist religious bigots.

all they did was get 10 people in a room and did a poll to see how many people told them they were Christians.. then they decided to super size the percentage... they didn't go over to everyones house! which makes the stats and percentage! WRONG! FLAWED!

Yes, thank god, organized christianity is in a terminal decline. Only good can come out of that.

Don't judge the whole
Christian population just because the Christians you see and know are actually hypocrites.

Perhaps those are the ones that grew up and started thinking instead of following teachings that have been outdated for centuries.

I don't Judge them.. but God Will, and God will also Judge me, so stop trying to misinterpret my posts ok? ty.

I don't care about what god said. He doesn't exist.

I don't admire rapists.... I act like I admire them to show people how stupid it is to admire rape which apart of evolution, just like homosexuality is being claimed to being apart of evolution.. people want to except homosexuality as being apart of evolution but once they hear that rape is also apart of evolution they deny it ever being apart of evolution, which is stupid, because if you can't except rape as being apart of evolution, but can except homsexuality as being apart of evolution, then that makes no sense! which makes that person look stupid!

Evolution doesn't teach morals.

Because he can
because he can

He cant because he doesn't exist.
You cant decide on other peoples lives just because you believe in fairy tales.

medical science has also verified rape being apart of some human behavioral instincts, which some are born with, the thing is.. some people really don't want to believe it, especially you Nu Kua.

So.. We are discussing homosexuality. Wish is completely different from rape.

They've also verified that some animals have rape like behavior as of instincts.

So, some animals also eat their mate while having sex. Saving the important organs for last to give him more time to fertilize eggs.
Evolution is morally blind. It doesn't care about whether or not something is right or not.

So back to the beginning- if God is a perfect God who knows all and created all, and he created these humans who were born to be homosexual, then how can one suggest that being homosexual is a sin, is against God, without implying that God made a mistake?
In the beginning God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, not Eve and Eve, but just Adam and Eve!

So. Perhaps god actually wanted to make eve and eve. But he couldn't because he wanted humanity to go beyond the first generation.

I heard homosexual women are wanting to kids, so they go to the sperm bank to get some sperm to get planted in their eggs... and a lot of the guys in the community i live in.. are going to the sperm banks and getting their sperm destroyed! 1 of my freinds heard about this and he said: "those F***ing F*****s aren't getting my sperm!". If homosexuality is natural.. why do they need a sperm bank? why do 2 men have to adopt a child? if its natural then they should be able to reproduce, omg! wait! wait a minute! they can't! LOL!

Then why do deceases exist that render the animal infertile.
And why do off all animals, only a small amount survive to mate.


stereotyping homosexuals... I know someone who is homosexual.. and I showed him what you posted and he called you a stereotypical bitch... wow.... LOL!!!!![/QUOTE]
If you know someone that is homosexual, he either is being beaten into submission with the bible, or to afraid to speak his mind.

[Nu Kua]

Eco, you're becoming boring with your one track mind.
We could be discussing what's for dinner, and you'd try to slip a little rape into it.

<yawn>