are we losing our religious roots? why?

[ecosikz]

this is a paragraph from a book I read, that I once rented from the public library and it was very interesting..

The Devil: A Biography.
by Peter Stanford.

Much remains, however, where Lucifer cannot be replaced by a pill. Natural disasters-the suffering that results from the processes of nature-still horrify and prompt talk of evil abroad in the world. So too does what is termed moral evil- that which occurs when a human being knowingly and deliberately inflicts suffering on another. Scientist have impinged on theses fields. Climatic changes,global warming,misuse and mismanagement of natural resources have all been shown to have a say in events that were once seen as the actions of evil spirits and gods. Psychiatry now has names and remedies to explain actions that were once simply called "evil." It is no accident that the growth of Freudian psychoanalysis in this century has coincided with a decline in formal attachment to religion. where once people would have sought counsel from their priest in the confessional and succor in the symbols of good and evil in their churches, today they resort to therapy.

I think the autor made a very good statement right here, because it seems as though we resort to therapy nowadays, thus we lose hold of our religious roots. The Churches and our religions have always been there for us, so why do we seem to be slipping away from them?

Some people say religions have made this world a corrupted 1, but if religion has made this world so corrupted, how come people aren't still being tortured in the US? how come people are allowed to have freedom in such a corrupted society? Religious people founded the United States of America, thus giving all its citizens more freedom than what they once have had in Europe.

This thread is about people who are losing their religious roots and why they seem to be losing them.

[Crimepunisher]

The Churches and our religions have always been there for us

You mean like during the Spanish Inquisition?

Waittasec now...

Oh, ok, how about the Crusades....

Just gimme a second

World War II?

No...

Well, they were here last Christmas I guess.

Religious people founded the United States of America, thus giving all its citizens more freedom than what they once have had in Europe.

That because the religious people in Europe killed everyone else who was of a different religion, and the same applied in the US for a while during our first hundred years or so.

Guess the general reason is we're entering an age of knowledge (Laugh freely) where information about grand religious events is being explained at a pretty quick rate, and we're also aware now of how much most religions have really fucked one another over throughout history. A hundred years ago, maybe even 50 it was surprisingly simple to suppress this information

[olddragon]

Here in America.
Let's not forget grand religious undertakings like the Salem witch trials,
or forcing the Indians to adopt Christian religion.
Let's never forget our grand Christian groups like the KKK.
Yes, they did a lot to spread the word of peace and brotherhood in the name of God.

[Harry61]

I don't go to church. I quit going when I was 8 years old.

It was a very snowy cold day back then a young woman couldn't wear pants, or slacks to church it was dresses only.

Not having a mom, my dad suggested I call one of my friends moms who was upstanding, and very involved in the church. She told me no, that I should still wear a dress.

When I got to church, my friend (who's mother I had called) was wearing pants. She said her mom told her it was ok.

I asked my dad later why she did that. My dad said, now you know what a hyprocrite is. I never went back to that church.

Churches were made by man, not God. I just as soon go to a place in the country and talk to god, vs. some "man" at the alter telling me how I should live my life. And in the end it is "Do as I say, not as I do" - That is why we are loosing our roots to religion.

[Assassin X]

I think nothings really changed. Yeah people whine about religion and in that respect you don't see as much religion in public because for some reason people think it will kill them to see "In god we trust" on a coin. But religion isn't going anywhere and never really will. Sometimes people say its growing, sometimes people say its decreasing. Who knows.

To me at least in the US it always seems to be growing, but then again so is the population so that explains that. Its all staying the same really. Its just how we are able to see it that is changing.

[JenaS62]

This thread is about people who are losing their religious roots and why they seem to be losing them.

Perhaps because it's all bullshit.

[The Wicked Priest]

Religious people founded the United States of America

What you should have said is that religious people colonized the United States. Non-religious people founded it.
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/ffnc/

[ecosikz]

You mean like during the Spanish Inquisition?

Waittasec now...

Oh, ok, how about the Crusades....

Just gimme a second

World War II?

No...

Religion has always been around, in WWI and WWII we had more religious people fighting for the freedom of the recent and future citizens of the US.
We've once had the word God in court disputes and we've also had witnesses in court swear to tell the truth, so help them God, btw a lot of people that fought in Vietnam had a strong belief in God and I'm guessing a lot of those who didn't had suffered shellshock, thus when the soldiers returned, their own country didn't care about them, except for the churches... you might want to do some research buddy.

Guess the general reason is we're entering an age of knowledge (Laugh freely) where information about grand religious events is being explained at a pretty quick rate, and we're also aware now of how much most religions have really fucked one another over throughout history. A hundred years ago, maybe even 50 it was surprisingly simple to suppress this information

please tell me how the religions are killing the coral reefs and how a lot of bee's seem to be dying at the foot of religions.. please do tell me how a lot of this has to do with religions..

Here in America.
Let's not forget grand religious undertakings like the Salem witch trials,
or forcing the Indians to adopt Christian religion.
Let's never forget our grand Christian groups like the KKK.
Yes, they did a lot to spread the word of peace and brotherhood in the name of God.

did you know that anyone can claim to be a christian, yet not even have 1 similar belief in what Jesus Christ had done for humanity.. You call them Christians, yet they might only claim to be apart of the religion because it is a really high populated religion, which makes some people liars.. if you gave a whole group of people a test on Christianity, you'd see how many people dont actually know jack shit about Christianity and its culture..

Churches were made by man, not God. I just as soon go to a place in the country and talk to god, vs. some "man" at the alter telling me how I should live my life. And in the end it is "Do as I say, not as I do" - That is why we are loosing our roots to religion.

Some women are leaders in churches nowadays.. are you sexist? are you a feminist? I think you are, prove me wrong. Men nowadays aren't the only leaders in churches, so just don't bother bringing that kinda bs argument in this thread please, thank you.

[Crimepunisher]

Religion has always been around, in WWI and WWII we had more religious people fighting for the freedom of the recent and future citizens of the US.

So? Religious people fought for freedom at several points throughout history. But you know what happened if Christianity disagreed with their religion? They were killed, homes burned, women raped, children taken. That doesn't mark upon anything you said though, you said the churches and our religions have always been there for us.

If that were the case then why did we need 72 million bodybags?

their own country didn't care about them, except for the churches... you might want to do some research buddy.

Except for their churches? Well, after all you know the church did a whole lot for all of the Vietnam vets I know who were devout Christians entering and upon returning were turned away from their respected churches for "being war mongering babykillers". Think you might want to do some research. And try not to go onto Catholicanswers or anywhere like that, why not ask a veteran.

That's not to say all churches did that, but being nice some of the time doesn't make up for not being there 80% of the time.

The church does the same thing in every war. "Here you are, son, you're blessed, go get him". Nothing wrong with that, but in so many points throughout history (Especially the Second World War) the Church was in a fine place to lend the Allies a hand on the financial front. Instead it sat there and watched as the world tore itself to shreds.

And wtf do you mean by "a lot of those who didn't had suffered shell shock?" Are you saying a disbelief in Christianity makes soldiers more prone to shell shock? Right.

please tell me how the religions are killing the coral reefs and how a lot of bee's seem to be dying at the foot of religions.. please do tell me how a lot of this has to do with religions..

It doesn't, I was making the point that we now know at several points throughout history there are supreme fuck ups each religion has made (And more ways to access knowledge of these fuck ups) hence the reason why more people are falling away from them.

Some women are leaders in churches nowadays.. are you sexist? are you a feminist? I think you are, prove me wrong. Men nowadays aren't the only leaders in churches, so just don't bother bringing that kinda bs argument in this thread please, thank you.

Underline "some women", and that doesn't absolve centuries of rampant sexism on the church's part.

if you gave a whole group of people a test on Christianity, you'd see how many people dont actually know jack shit about Christianity and its culture..

Would you like to be put to this test? Because so far I'm thinking you're one of those Christians who's like "Oh, pretty flowers, I'm so glad my religion has killed off countless others, wheeee"

[olddragon]

If you take a practical look at the old testament you will see it is about war.
It explains armies, generals, and kings. Concurring or being concurred.
One bloody battle after another.
In the new testament, the people are looking for a messiah (General) to lead them in revolt of the Romans.
The bible could well be called a Political and Military manual of ancient times
It is a history of warfare and killing that carries over to today.

[ecosikz]

So? Religious people fought for freedom at several points throughout history.

Well then, I guess you don't care about your freedom.

But you know what happened if Christianity disagreed with their religion? They were killed, homes burned, women raped, children taken.

Christianity isn't a person... it's a religion a religion can't disagree with it's own religion, the religious people can disagree with their own religion, thus i don't see whats so hard about living your own religion that you disagree with.

That doesn't mark upon anything you said though, you said the churches and our religions have always been there for us.

I said they've always been there for us? omg im sorry, what i meant to say was that they have always been around... and I would say about more than 60%-70% of the time they have indeed been there for us.

If that were the case then why did we need 72 million bodybags?

may I please see your source?

Except for their churches? Well, after all you know the church did a whole lot for all of the Vietnam vets I know who were devout Christians entering and upon returning were turned away from their respected churches for "being war mongering babykillers".

not all churches but a lot of them did welcome them home, unlike the towns people, please do tell me how the church is to blame for these towns people that turned their backs on the soldiers who fought for our freedom..

Think you might want to do some research. And try not to go onto Catholicanswers or anywhere like that, why not ask a veteran.

a lot of the people in my family are veterans and I do indeed do my research very well.

That's not to say all churches did that, but being nice some of the time doesn't make up for not being there 80% of the time.

nice some of the time? you might want to double check your stats on that info CP.

The church does the same thing in every war. "Here you are, son, you're blessed, go get him". Nothing wrong with that, but in so many points throughout history (Especially the Second World War) the Church was in a fine place to lend the Allies a hand on the financial front. Instead it sat there and watched as the world tore itself to shreds.

was your grandfather or anybody in your family in World War II?

And wtf do you mean by "a lot of those who didn't had suffered shell shock?" Are you saying a disbelief in Christianity makes soldiers more prone to shell shock? Right.

example: put a gun to someones head or better yet threat their families lives and lets see if that person doesn't pray to God that you don't murder his whole family, the people he so unconditionally loves and cherishes.. another example would be to see how someone reacts when everything they love is threaten to be taken away from them.. how do you think that person will feel? without God, who will have mercy upon us all? Humanity? nope, there is a reason people believe in God...

It doesn't, I was making the point that we now know at several points throughout history there are supreme fuck ups each religion has made (And more ways to access knowledge of these fuck ups) hence the reason why more people are falling away from them.

people aren't perfect, do you know who runs the churches? people. people have made the supreme fuck ups.. not religion.. people that are in the religion make fuck ups too, its not the religion... its people in general!

Underline "some women", and that doesn't absolve centuries of rampant sexism on the church's part.

well technically her post made it sound like woman aren't even leaders of some churches and she seems to not like going to church because she doesn't want to, I mean.. if 1 thing is going to keep her from going to church, thats pretty lame.. the reason she doesn't goto church is mostly because of her father and that 1 lady she was talking about..

Would you like to be put to this test? Because so far I'm thinking you're one of those Christians who's like "Oh, pretty flowers, I'm so glad my religion has killed off countless others, wheeee"

I sure would, because all you seem to be doing is believing the stereotypes..
Religious people aren't that much different from other people, some of the things that make em different is that they have a higher level of faith and are a lot more able to be open minded then other people...

"Oh, pretty flowers, I'm so glad my religion has killed off countless others, wheeee"

pretty flowers? tell me CP, how much do you know about Christianity, because that happy stereotypical crap isn't the real deal.. it really isn't.

[DontBeAfraid]

This thread is about people who are losing their religious roots and why they seem to be losing them.

Which people?

Well then, I guess you don't care about your freedom.

Thats not at all what he said.

Christianity isn't a person... it's a religion a religion can't disagree with it's own religion

Christianity does a smashing job of exactly this. Although its more proper to say that it contradicts itself and its members disagree with each other.

not all churches but a lot of them did welcome them home, unlike the towns people,

Are you under the impression that there were no "towns people" who welcomed back vietnam vets? Or is more accurate to say that: Not all towns people welcomed them back, but a lot of them did.

a lot of the people in my family are veterans and I do indeed do my research very well.

The small amount of vets you know is not even comparable to how many vets there are. DO your research, dont pretend to.

nice some of the time? you might want to double check your stats on that info CP.

Churches are there for their MEMBERS and potential MEMBERS, and not even all the time, they care little for the rest.

was your grandfather or anybody in your family in World War II?

You know how many WWII vets? Either way, your small experience is meaningless... Its not even YOUR experience.

example: put a gun to someones head or better yet threat their families lives and lets see if that person doesn't pray to God that you don't murder his whole family,

Ah, you are going for the dated and retarded "no atheists in foxholes" line of reasoning. Unfortunately for you, this argument does NOT validate your statement that non christian soldiers were more likely to suffer shell shock than others.... No, you need statistics for that.... Do you have any real evidence in support of your assertion?

people aren't perfect, do you know who runs the churches? people. people have made the supreme fuck ups.. not religion.. people that are in the religion make fuck ups too, its not the religion... its people in general!

This doesnt change the fact that these fuck ups often used religion to justify their fuck ups.

Religious people aren't that much different from other people, some of the things that make em different is that they have a higher level of faith and are a lot more able to be open minded then other people...

No, if a person holds faith in rules that are WRITTEN IN STONE, they are the opposite of open minded.

pretty flowers? tell me CP, how much do you know about Christianity,

I know more than you Im sure.... although Im not CP.

because that happy stereotypical crap isn't the real deal.. it really isn't.

The reality is that religious people usually have to live in a half fantasy land in order to rationalize all the conflicts between reality and belief.

[Crimepunisher]

Well then, I guess you don't care about your freedom.

No, I really do, but it's not like Christianity has been a beacon of equal rights since its inception.

Christianity isn't a person... it's a religion a religion can't disagree with it's own religion, the religious people can disagree with their own religion, thus i don't see whats so hard about living your own religion that you disagree with.

OK, so is your little misinformed psycho babble justification for the slaughter of thousands, possibly millions of innocent people who chose to follow a different path?

and I would say about more than 60%-70% of the time they have indeed been there for us.

Name three.

may I please see your source?

Estimates range from 40 million to 72 million, here's A source, but I've heard several differing ones.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Second

not all churches but a lot of them did welcome them home, unlike the towns people, please do tell me how the church is to blame for these towns people that turned their backs on the soldiers who fought for our freedom..

I'm not blaming the churches for the reactions of those surrounding, but there were a pretty large number of veterans I know who were immediately rejected by their churches.

a lot of the people in my family are veterans and I do indeed do my research very well.

Apparently not

nice some of the time? you might want to double check your stats on that info CP.

Are you agreeing it sucks? Because if not there's no possible way you can say the church is not nice all the time.

was your grandfather or anybody in your family in World War II?

Two grandfathers, step grandfather, and both great grandfathers. All except for one in Europe and in the Army, and the exception was a Marine.

example: put a gun to someones head or better yet threat their families lives and lets see if that person doesn't pray to God that you don't murder his whole family, the people he so unconditionally loves and cherishes.. another example would be to see how someone reacts when everything they love is threaten to be taken away from them.. how do you think that person will feel? without God, who will have mercy upon us all? Humanity? nope, there is a reason people believe in God...

That doesn't mean anything, you're saying people pray to God when they're frightened for their lives. I'm sure there are plenty who don't and actually do something about it rather than sitting there begging.

people aren't perfect, do you know who runs the churches? people. people have made the supreme fuck ups.. not religion.. people that are in the religion make fuck ups too, its not the religion... its people in general!

So "THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER A WITCH TO LIVE." from exodus 22:18 is people fucking up?

well technically her post made it sound like woman aren't even leaders of some churches and she seems to not like going to church because she doesn't want to, I mean.. if 1 thing is going to keep her from going to church, thats pretty lame.. the reason she doesn't goto church is mostly because of her father and that 1 lady she was talking about..

Couldn't be the general hypocrisy of so much of the church could it?

I sure would, because all you seem to be doing is believing the stereotypes..
Religious people aren't that much different from other people, some of the things that make em different is that they have a higher level of faith and are a lot more able to be open minded then other people...

Able to be more open minded? I'd like you to show me an open minded one.

pretty flowers? tell me CP, how much do you know about Christianity, because that happy stereotypical crap isn't the real deal.. it really isn't.

I know my weight's worth, and I've had my share of pretty similar people to that cross my path. Either way, noticed you ignored the end of my post. What do you think of all the countless people and religions Christianity has killed off for no good reason?

[Assassin X]

That doesn't mean anything, you're saying people pray to God when they're frightened for their lives. I'm sure there are plenty who don't and actually do something about it rather than sitting there begging.

lol. So when a nuke goes off your gonna go off and do something eh? Yeah you go show that nuclear blast who's boss.

Seriously though like people tell me "Until your in that situation you can't say what you'd do!" I always say I won't stand there and piss myself when a man puts a gun to my head. But how the hell do I know that? Its all words for now. I am pretty sure a bullet travels faster then I do. unless of course I am related to superman.

I'm not blaming the churches for the reactions of those surrounding, but there were a pretty large number of veterans I know who were immediately rejected by their churches.

I've never heard of that. I'd want to know what kind of church it was. Obviously not a real church or one that has the same beliefs I do.

No, I really do, but it's not like Christianity has been a beacon of equal rights since its inception.

Of course neither have non-religious people either. Like everyone says...were all the same in the end....human. People across all religions, races....whatevers... tend to agree on things like equal rights. And at the same time people disagree about it across all those same things. So no one can be equally as bad or as good.

[DontBeAfraid]

lol. So when a nuke goes off your gonna go off and do something eh? Yeah you go show that nuclear blast who's boss.

Most inane response of the day.... so far. GZ

Seriously though like people tell me "Until your in that situation you can't say what you'd do!" I always say I won't stand there and piss myself when a man puts a gun to my head. But how the hell do I know that? Its all words for now. I am pretty sure a bullet travels faster then I do. unless of course I am related to superman.

If you cant know what YOU would do how can you tell me what I will do? There are atheists in foxholes AssX.

I've never heard of that.

You havent heard of most things.

I'd want to know what kind of church it was. Obviously not a real church or one that has the same beliefs I do.

You dont believe that christ is your lord and savior? I was under the impression that you were christian.

[cmar1965]

Quote CP:
That doesn't mean anything, you're saying people pray to God when they're frightened for their lives. I'm sure there are plenty who don't and actually do something about it rather than sitting there begging.


ASSX reply:lol. So when a nuke goes off your gonna go off and do something eh? Yeah you go show that nuclear blast who's boss.

Seriously though like people tell me "Until your in that situation you can't say what you'd do!" I always say I won't stand there and piss myself when a man puts a gun to my head. But how the hell do I know that? Its all words for now. I am pretty sure a bullet travels faster then I do. unless of course I am related to superman.

A little anecdote for you Assassinx. When I was in Iraq and based in Al Muthanna, there was an issue with inadvertant "friendly fire" thanks to our US allies. The unit Pastor was on his knees, hands clasped together, crying and praying for himself while all the "atheists in foxholes" were going out of their way and risking their own lifes to get that idiot out of harms way. He was reluctant to move, hence increasing the risk to others trying to help him. Long story short, eventually he was dragged to safety, but ironically he was the only one injured! lol Oh the irony. (I didn't laugh at the time, but in hindsight it is funny). The thing is though, he totally disregarded that it was the "atheists in foxholes" who had actually saved his arse, but instead praised "god" for sending the atheists out? For the record, not ONE person involved turned to religion over it, many however thought the Pastor an ungrateful jerk.

[Assassin X]

How do you know he wasn't praying for other things? Maybe for the safety of you? While obviously no ones perfect it would be selfish for a pastor to pray for his OWN safety. Once again proving that he is a little messed up in th head. A pastor would pray for everyones safety...etc. Just because your not religious doesn't mean he doesn't pray for you.

[olddragon]

It also does mean that fear paralyzed him, AssX.

Fear can make you do extreme things;
like sit there waiting for god to save you,
while you wet your pants.

[proffett]

Hi Eco, I don't think I have ever responded to you before but you seem like the type to become defensive about things you don't agree with. Anyway, I'm going to try to rein in this thread by posting my thoughts to the original question you posted, "why are we losing our religious roots".

I think that people of all religions, having great access to information and knowledge are able to discern for themselves what is true and what it not concerning religion. You see, there was a time when we received all of our information about 'God' from the institutions and churches, now, in the current era, that may not be the case. We can educate, or reeducate ourselves about spirituality and more people are finding enlightenment away from the churches, preists and traditional institutions.

As a whole I think our souls are yearning for more than tired scripture and bible thumping know-it-alls, muslim exremeists and fundies. Humanity is searching for true spirituality and that can only be reached between your spirit and the higher entities out there. Yes we are stepping away from our roots, but that is evolution. As we become more enlightened, more knowledgable, we begin to step away from the past and old traditions.

[Crimepunisher]

lol. So when a nuke goes off your gonna go off and do something eh?

I'd rather comfort those who are scared than sit there and beg for mercy. There's always something that needs to be done.

Of course neither have non-religious people either. Like everyone says...were all the same in the end....human. People across all religions, races....whatevers... tend to agree on things like equal rights. And at the same time people disagree about it across all those same things. So no one can be equally as bad or as good.

I'm not trying to bash anyone on the religious or non-religious side of the argument, but I was referring more to the church's history of pretty damned stupid genocides. Of course nearly all major religions have had their own but.

In all I'm sorry if I've offended you Assassin X, but I'm kinda tired of people trying to "teach" me the "superior" ways of Christianity and the church. I really don't care who you pray to or what rules you follow but I really do hate it when people have a twisted view of things. I guess everyone believes what they want to in the end though.

[Harry61]

Some women are leaders in churches nowadays.. are you sexist? are you a feminist? I think you are, prove me wrong. Men nowadays aren't the only leaders in churches, so just don't bother bringing that kinda bs argument in this thread please, thank you.

What I was saying is that women were'nt allowed to be leaders THEN. Not true now, but I wouldn't trust a women church leader either since the one I trusted a female "decon" of the church was a hyprocrite. It is how you act, not the actual verbage of what was written in the bible.

I don't know, but you are taking this way the wrong way....

It still goes back to "do as I say not as I do": theory dude, I can tell you how to live every single day, but you don't have to trust me or listen to me. Same with pastors, preachers, ministers being male or female. What makes me right or wrong? But if someone says I am right, would you still follow me?

The churches themselves (acutal buildings) were built by man. I am sorry women weren't allowed to particpate in the buldings themselves, but I guess someone had to cook for the crew. Name one "Rosie" the riviter in biblical times. Actually being "noted" as a builder.

In the actual end does it matter? Does "God" really get pissed off if you wear a dress or jeans? I don't think so. So my faith in the "church" is gone, is my faith in "God"? No but my "God" may be a different "God" than yours...

[Assassin X]

No god says to pray in desperate times..etc. Just beacuse you don't understand religion.

BUT...that doesn't mean be stupid. If I got people for instance about to bust in on me I am not going to be praying to God. I am going to be trying to save my ass. God also doesn't want you to be stupid. If that guy was praying at a wrong time then he was just stupid and expecting something at a time when God was really telling him "Hey stupid nows not the time to be praying!"

[Crimepunisher]

No god says to pray in desperate times..etc. Just beacuse you don't understand religion.

Was that directed at me? I'm not saying prayer is a forced thing, I was simply replying to Ecosikz who seems to think everyone does it when in desperate times.

Either way, doesn't matter, sorry if I've offended you, X.

[cmar1965]

Just a quickie between clients.

assassinx wrote:

How do you know he wasn't praying for other things? Maybe for the safety of you? While obviously no ones perfect it would be selfish for a pastor to pray for his OWN safety. Once again proving that he is a little messed up in th head. A pastor would pray for everyones safety...etc. Just because your not religious doesn't mean he doesn't pray for you.

Him yelling out "god please save me" intermittently between snivels told the story assassinx. His cries had ZERO to do with anyone else BUT himself. Too, it just adds to the selfishness of ANY christian so it did not surprise me. When one first becomes a christian it is for their OWN salvation and no one elses so what makes you assume it should matter any other time in life?

OD was correct too. He was quite literally paralysed with fear, and refused to listen to or to aid others, so in turn he put others lives in danger.

Until you are in the situation yourself Assassinx you really have no idea how you would act or what you would do, so your judging the guy from where you sit, all safe and sound, away from such an experience making statements that he must bea "little messed in the head",speaks volumes about your christianity too!

One thing I found interesting is that the atheists were actually willing to help their fellow man in that, what could have been life/death situation WITHOUT any hesitation. That assassinx is true altruism, something quite foreign to the religious set.

[Assassin X]

Him yelling out "god please save me" intermittently between snivels told the story assassinx. His cries had ZERO to do with anyone else BUT himself. Too, it just adds to the selfishness of ANY christian so it did not surprise me.

Well assuming he was JUST praying about himself...then yes he is selfish. Selfishness of othe....oh...:reads further ahead:

When one first becomes a christian it is for their OWN salvation and no one elses so what makes you assume it should matter any other time in life?

So we are selfish because....we opened our lives up and chose to believe in God??? WTF? That makes no sense. Or are you saying we selfish because somehow its our fault that we get salvation and you don't? Because you do realize the offer works for anyone that chooses to accept Christ right? I mean its not as easy as "Yeah I believe" and your in some kind of club but the offer is there.

If your also stating that why should it matter because we pray for others. Unless I read that wrong. Are you saying we shouldn't pray for others safety? Just because someone isn't a christian doesn't mean God doesn't care about you. Sure he isn't happy with you if your not following him but it doesn't mean your totally cut off. Its way to complicated for me to explain since I am not good with words but praying for others is a good thing. Just don't do it the wrong situations.

OD was correct too. He was quite literally paralysed with fear, and refused to listen to or to aid others, so in turn he put others lives in danger.

Hence that was a stupid situation to do it as I agreed. No ones perfect. Not even christians even though some think they are.

Until you are in the situation yourself Assassinx you really have no idea how you would act or what you would do, so your judging the guy from where you sit, all safe and sound, away from such an experience making statements that he must bea "little messed in the head",speaks volumes about your christianity too!

Well I am pretty sure you don't know what situations I have been in. You know what I tell you and what I tell you is only when have to.

One thing I found interesting is that the atheists were actually willing to help their fellow man in that, what could have been life/death situation WITHOUT any hesitation. That assassinx is true altruism, something quite foreign to the religious set.

Once again accusations as if all religious people are blind to this concept. I could say the same of non-religious people. Many people will or won't put their life on the line for there fellow man....religious or not. There are plenty of religious people in the army.