Survivalists - How far along are you?

[Adrahil]

Personally, I am not a fan of the .223 round. While potentially good at stopping people within the 200 yard range, these are not good at all for taking down much more than wild dogs and such.

I can't agree, personally. The .223 has many advantages. It's a faster round, which means flatter trajectory. The bullet often fragments on impact, causing massive tissue damage. And it's lighter. Lighter=carry more of it. There's a reason the Russians migrated from the 7.63x39 round to the 5.45 mm round ( a virtual clone of the .223/NATO 5.56).... It's a superior round in most applications. Now, it does not penetrate cover as well as the 7.62, but ultimately, if you want that, the NATO 7.62 is better than both of them. But since we're not talking true military application, that's of limited utility. But as you well know, this a debate akin to religion among shooters. :)

The AR platform is a better weapon for someone taht wants to own one or two weapons, since the upper receivers can be purchased thru the mail without any forms and can transform the smaller .223 to big dogs like the .50 Beowulf and even the .50 BMG as a bolt action.

In terms of maintenance, spare parts and customizability, the AR platform is truly unmatched, though for a big round, like the .308, the AR10 is better than the AR15. My own thoughts (at least until recently) are that if you are on a limited budget, an AK or an SKS is a good choice. But if you can afford it, the AR15 is better. But again, it's a bit of religion.

Some of the new rifles coming out seem very nice. The FN-2000, the FN SCAR, the upcoming Bushmaster/MAGPUL ACR, the HK-416 and some others. Only time will tell if these represent a definitive improvement of or marginal gains. until then, it's ridiculously easy to get spare parts for an AR... an important factor if things REALLY deteriorate.

[Ricfly52]

Gotta love my .270 Win. Fast, flat and will kill out to 1000 yards. One shot, one kill!

[pico]

Ricfly52... the .270 is a long case based off of the 30-06. This is a great round for many hunting applications, and in a survival situation could make a great counter sniping platform, the lack of military bulk ammo and easy to find parts for these rifles make them not wise investments for a survivalist, unless this rifle is already owned. I would love to redo an older Mauser as this, or the shorter .284.

Adrahil... I happen to be a fan of the .308 myself. Nothing says leave me alone like the sound of a M1A going off 20 rounds in rapid succession. I find both the .223 and the 7.62x39 to be lacking in different but important aspects. I just wish the longer 7.62x45 was more common, as having a rebarrel job done to handle this would make for a much BC from an AK-47. I have fired many different firearms, and like the SKS much better than the run of the mill AK-47. I can say that in a survival situation, the AK action is much better as it is very rugged. I would like to buy an Yugo M76 sniper rifle, which is a beefed up AK action that fires the 8mm Mauser round thru a heavy long barrel. These are much like the Dragunov or PSL sniper rifles, only that they shoot the better non-rimmed round.

I think that people really need more than one weapon. These are tools, and I would not limit myself to just a flat head screwdriver, but by the entire set. Carbines are really only good for shorter ranges, and while some bullets can reach out farther in the same class, generally speaking, the AR and AK rounds are effective out to 200m, then the energy really falls off fast, especially in the 7.62x39 round. The .308 is the way to go, but many battle rifles in this chambering are too heavy for general hunting, especially with a fully loaded magazine. Having a good bolt gun is the way to go, preferably also in .308 to match your battle rifle. These can reach out 600 - 800 meters, and still have enough kinetic energy left over to incapacitate. The same comparrison can be used on handguns, comparing the full sized bigger bore guns to the cute guns ladies carry in their purses. While I would think a .25 ACP would wreck my day if I was on the receiving end, I would take this any day to a 10mm from a Glock 20. The energy is massivly different, and to put it this way, a 10mm round has the same energy 75meters downrange as a .45 ACP has at the muzzle. The difference is huge, and that is about the same comparrison as a .308 vs a .223.

Buy what you can now, and especially buy semi auto battle rifles and handguns. These will go first, and when you buy them buy the biggest and best magazines you can afford. This will be the chinese 75 roung drum mags if you buy an AK-47, or a beta-C mag for th AR platform. The USGI mags for the M1A/M14 are the way to go, but have already doubled or tripled in price since Nov 4, 2008.

[Ricfly52]

pico, I have two. One a Remington BDL, and the other a pre-64 winchester model 70. And I have a few............thousand rounds!

I have shot and hunted since I was 10 years old. I was a bit of an expert in the army. Yeh I can shoot. As good as some, better than most!

[Skygirl]

I'm all about ordnance but what are you going to do when your ammo runs out? I have me a beautiful handcrafted custom long bow. Making arrows I would imagine is easier than swaging.

[Adrahil]

Adrahil... I happen to be a fan of the .308 myself. Nothing says leave me alone like the sound of a M1A going off 20 rounds in rapid succession.

The .308/NATO 7.52 is an impressive round. But it's big, loud, heavy, and has a healthy recoil. Not to mention that the ammo is expensive. If I had unlimited funds, I'd get one, because like you said, ya want the right tool for the job. If I was TRULY in barricade situation with 10-20 folks trying to get into my house, the .308 would be the round I wanted. But if I were mobile for any reason, it's too heavy to carry a lot of ammo. I'd prefer an AR-10 for .308, but they're costy, IF you can find one. I have my eye on an FN-FAL in the local bang-bang parlor.

I can say that in a survival situation, the AK action is much better as it is very rugged.

There is no doubt that the AK is very rugged, especially the Russian, Bulgarian, Yugo, and Polish models. But a LOT of the stuff you see today is getting kinda junky. Also, a lot of the modern knock-offs are not completely true to the AK design, which means trouble finding spare parts if you need them. But for most folks, they'll never wear out a semi-auto rifle in their lifetime, even IF TSHTF.

the AR and AK rounds are effective out to 200m, then the energy really falls off fast, especially in the 7.62x39 round.

TBH, other than outright civil war, I can't imagine a scenario where I'd want much more range than 200-300 m. And as I've said earlier, there's a REASON the world's militaries have migrated from the full-power rounds to the medium-power rounds.

While I would think a .25 ACP would wreck my day if I was on the receiving end, I would take this any day to a 10mm from a Glock 20. The energy is massivly different, and to put it this way, a 10mm round has the same energy 75meters downrange as a .45 ACP has at the muzzle. The difference is huge, and that is about the same comparrison as a .308 vs a .223.

I'm personally more a fan of the .40 S&W. Maybe I'm a wimp, but the 10 mm is too much round for me... not to mention getting tough to find.

buy the biggest and best magazines you can afford. This will be the chinese 75 roung drum mags if you buy an AK-47, or a beta-C mag for th AR platform.

I personally don't like the drum mags. I don't see that they offer much advantage to a semi-auto shooter, and they are heavy (when loaded) and bulky, and fragile. My own advice would be (for the AR) to get as many 30 round (or the max capacity your state allows) mags as you deem prudent and test em out. Most of the USGI 30-rounders seem to work well (get the green followers) and both the PMAG and Lancer L-5 are great plastic mags. I personally like the L5, since it's translucent, and you easily inspect the mags innards, and see how much ammo you have. I anticipate that even if a ban comes, the spare parts to maintain the mags will be available.

[pico]

Agreed, the .40 S&W is a great round. I have this for the lower cost compared to the 10mm, and the much better performance compared to the 9mm, and the larger capacity compared to the .45. The 10mm is a fanastic round for open carrying in places where you can become dinner. I like the Glock 20, but this full size handgun has that big chunky grip that many cannot handle. I wear a medium sized glove and found it okay. Still, I sent mine off to be resized for smaller hands. My wife can shoot this fine, and now I feel this is the best round for me to carry in rough terrain. Also, a simple barrel and spring change has me shooting this with 9x25 dillon loads from double tap. These have energy to spare and should really put the hurt on large animals such as bears if they feel I can become lunch. The 10mm round has been loaded much lighter than it can be in many factory loads. The lighter loads in 10mm that the FBI used are actually not as good as the hotter 40 S&W out there today. I like the 10mm double tap loads called enforcer. They have a 230 grain HP bullet with a lead ball below. Basically, you get 2 shots in one round. While not a precision shooting round, it is probably the best round for self defence when over penetration and accuracy might not be too critical. The hardcast bullets from 10mm make it the best fairly common round for hunting, and while 500 rounds for $350 may seem high for some people, this cost is not any more than higher end rounds like the Winchester Ranger line sell for. I used the 10mm vs .25 to compare the ballistics of the .223 to the .308. I would not use a .25 firearm at the present, especially for my primary or backup handgun... perhaps 3rd or fourth, but then what is the point.

I don't have loads of cash sitting around for guns and ammo, but I find that the .308 is not too expensive if looking at the class it is in. This is not a carbine round, but a rifle round. The range of this round is double that of the .223 and 7.62x39, and the knockdown power at long distances is much greater as well. The low cost Saiga rifles in .308 are not bad, although parts are not too common yet. I have shot the shorter barrelled hunting model and found it to be much lighter than my heavy barrelled M1A. My M1A is close to 15 lbs unloaded, whereas the Saiga loaded with 25 rounds is about 10 pounds. The weapons are in a different class from the AR15s and AK47/74, so you cannot truely compare them.

I like the 30 round NATO mags you refer to. They have been a good investment lately if purchased before Nov 4th. I like the BETA C mags much more than the AK drums, which I have used before in two different configurations. The Beta C mags load easy, compared to the pain in the ass loading of either the chinese or romanian drums. These commie drums are very rugged, and probably will hold up better under poor conditions. The benefit for drums would be purely for SHTF situations... or for an investment when these are banned from further importation.

I noticed you think you may not be able to control the 10mm round, but this is not really any worse than a 40 if you get the right kind of firearm. The grip is critical, since if this is not held correctly you will get some recoil which will make double tap shots near impossible in quick succession. The Glock platform is great too, as a G20 is the same frame as the G21. A simple mag and slide swap can have you shooting .45 ACP or even better, the .45 Super. Anyway, the G20 can also be tamed down a bit with a barrel conversion kit to shoot .40S&W and .357 SIG. Carbine conversions are available, and at around $400 you can even now shoot the .50GI round from this... although I think this round is not necessary with better more available rounds out there. Also, as an obvious note for those looking into firearms, the Glock's competition is H&K and Sig Sauer. Both of these are more $$$$, and the Glock is far cheaper to maintain.

[medicvet]

Okay, someone tell me all they know about the Remington 12gauge semi-auto sportsman 12. That's what's on the receipt. Someone owed me money, and went ahead and put down 50 on it for me, and I need to know what I'm getting. In any case, it does mean that I will definitely be able to get it by March at the latest, because what's left to pay on it now is $255, putting some on it myself at the beginning of each month in January, February, and March.


oh yeah, and it may be stupid of me because maybe it's self explanatory on the receipt, but what the hell ammo does it take?

[pico]

The remington sportsman 12 is an older model. Some of these are close to 75 years old, and while that may sound like a shitty old shotgun, the quality on the older weapons is better in many cases than the modern stuff. I think they quit making these in the mid 1960's.

While I would prefer a model 870, since it is much easier to probably find parts and upgrade it with different barrels, this remington 12 will probably have choke tubes that can be installed at the muzzle. If it is threaded inside the barrel and does not come with any choke tubes, you should take this to a gunsmith or search online and find the tubes to take deer. This will be a rifling insert on the end, giving the slug you will use a bit of spin.

I would buy 3 rounds for your gun. All will be 12 guage shotgun rounds, and I would stick with the 2 3/4" sized variety, even if your gun will work with 3" shells. IMO, get some rifled slugs around 1 oz. in weight, 00 or #4 shot for self defence(depending on living arrangments), and #7 birdshot for quails and such.

If in an apartment, get #4 shot or somthing close to avoid shooting thru walls killing/injuring innocents. 00 buck shot is pretty nasty stuff at close ranges, basically spraying 9-12 lead balls that are the ballistic equivalent of the older round 30 cal handgun loads of the late 19th and early 20th century. Taking a full blast of this at close range will ruin anyones day. Whatever you decide to go with, perhaps get them in reduced recoil to allow for followup shots.

For slugs, I would not get sabot slugs to feed your gun. You need to have a rifled barrel to get the accuracy you pay for with these. An 870 model could be rebarrelled in less than a minute, but I doubt yours can be done. Stick with the slugs that have rifling on the slug to make them spin. While not terribly accurate, they will take any deer within 50 meters, and probably be good enough to 100m in a pinch.

For birdshot, I would get whatever is on sale. I would look for #6 or #7, as these will take smaller birds fine. Get steel shot, and not lead, for health reasons. Also, if you think you may ever need to take larger birds, like Canadian Geese or the larger ducks, get a larger ball shot. The lower the number, the larger the pellets and the less of them there are. Get steel for your bird needs.

As s final note, I think your gun is a pump and not a semi-auto. If you do find out it is a semi-auto, take note you got a steal. A pump is more reliable in most cases, so don't fret if it is a pump. A new Remington 870 can be had for about the same as you are paying, but the quality may not be as refined as the older models. I bought an older gun than these about a year ago, buying a Winchester 1897 pump action shotgun. This can handle very light smokeless powder loads, but should be fed blackpowder loads. It looks beautiful, and functions great even being well over 100 years old.

Good luck with your gun when it arrives!

[medicvet]

Thank you very much! It is worth it to pay out the $255 left owed on it to get it then? And I will have to check it out and find out if it is a semi automatic or a pump and let you know. So this is a good weapon to have then? Is it along par with a winchester?

[gordon]

Okay, someone tell me all they know about the Remington 12gauge semi-auto sportsman 12. That's what's on the receipt. Someone owed me money, and went ahead and put down 50 on it for me, and I need to know what I'm getting. In any case, it does mean that I will definitely be able to get it by March at the latest, because what's left to pay on it now is $255, putting some on it myself at the beginning of each month in January, February, and March.


oh yeah, and it may be stupid of me because maybe it's self explanatory on the receipt, but what the hell ammo does it take?

oh yeah, and it may be stupid of me because maybe it's self explanatory on the receipt, but what the hell ammo does it take?

Tried searching on google for the answer?

[Assassin X]

While I got some stuff, my friend has the bulk but recently I was thinking about it and we can't predict the future so we can't tell what kind of scenario will happen and what we will actually need.

So now I am beginning to say maybe its best to have some stuff but not to much. Why? Well not to sound corny but I'll wait to see what happens and then I will do the Macgyver thing. You can survive with anything you find. For instance what if you go into a abandoned house and take a chair, some screws, a rubber hose, 3 shoe strings and a can.

Who knows...point is we will have stuff all around us. Some we will know its uses. And others we can come up with stuff for. Because at some point all we have stored is gonna run out or break down...etc.

[pico]

Medicvet... the weapon is solid. I am pretty sure it is a pump action, but the model is sound. I would say it is probably as good as any other shotgun in that style.

[ClaudiaBalzac]

Noob question, I am sure.

But should I look for a handgun that may not have had certain paperwork filed, shall we say, to add to the (small) collection? I currently have a .38 Taurus, legally registered.

And a box of hollowpoints.

Not enough to hold off the zombies, let alone marauding hordes of thugs.

[pico]

Depending on your location, you should buy on the private market as much as possible. If you must register a firearm in your locale, I would think purchasing on the private market may be illegal in your state.

A .38 special is what I am figuring you have, is not overly powerful. Hollowpoints are a good choice on revolvers, since feeding from a magazine is where hollowpoints can get hung up and jam. Revolvers dont work in that manner, having the rounds already loaded in the cylinder. If your weapon is fairly new, it should handle +P loads. These will be loaded with a bit more powder and makes for a more potent round. Regardless, the round is about the minimum for self defence use. I would try to find something in .40 S&W or larger.

Living in certain states will determine what you get. If you live in California, large magazines are not legal to own. Getting a Beretta 92FS can allow you to have 17 or more rounds in a magazine that fits flush in the handle. If you can only have 10 rounds in a magazine as a max number allowed by the state, you should make those rounds the largest and most potent you can handle. I would opt for 10mm, or at the least .40S&W. These are semi auto loads. If you like the revolver, the number of rounds you can legally have is not an issue. Get something large, perhaps a .357 magnum or larger round. I am looking into a large bore revolver for woodland protection. If trying to halt the hordes, look to a round that can provide at least 500 foot pounds of energy. The larger this number, the more powerful the bullet hits.

Hollowpoints are not the big deal Hollywood and politicians make them out to be. With these rounds, they are much safer to use in a self defence situation vs Full Metal Jacket rounds, which can provide thru shots at close range. The hollopoints open up once in soft tissue, making the possibility of having the rounds travel beyond the target much less likely to happen. Look around and see what the ammo will cost. 10mm is expensive compared to 9mm, and this applies to all ammo. Rounds that are sold to militaries and police units will be much more common than wildcat loads like 9x25 Dillon... which hit like a M1 carbine but are fired from a modified Glock 20 or other full sized 10mm handgun.

If you already have a handgun, and that is it, then you should probably look into a long gun, such as a shotgun or even a bolt action rifle. If money is not too tight, try and get a Saiga .308. These will cost around $500, and you will be using a more powerful round than the US military uses.

[gordon]

What are the Americans preparing for. War?

[ClaudiaBalzac]

Depending on your location, you should buy on the private market as much as possible. If you must register a firearm in your locale, I would think purchasing on the private market may be illegal in your state.

Yes....it is. But when they come for our guns...

A .38 special is what I am figuring you have, is not overly powerful.

Yes, that's it.

Hollowpoints are a good choice on revolvers, since feeding from a magazine is where hollowpoints can get hung up and jam. Revolvers dont work in that manner, having the rounds already loaded in the cylinder. If your weapon is fairly new, it should handle +P loads. These will be loaded with a bit more powder and makes for a more potent round

That's the kind of information I was hoping to learn, thanks! I have yet to even fire the gun, it is still in the box, brand new. I want to take a gun-safety and some sort of marksmanship course before firing it the first time. I'll google for "+P loads" rather than ask another noob question for the moment! :)

Hollowpoints are not the big deal Hollywood and politicians make them out to be. With these rounds, they are much safer to use in a self defence situation vs Full Metal Jacket rounds, which can provide thru shots at close range. The hollopoints open up once in soft tissue, making the possibility of having the rounds travel beyond the target much less likely to happen.

That's exactly why I purchased the hollowpoints, for self defense in close quarters. I knew nothing about guns, and asked the gun shop owner for his recommendation. I told him I wanted a gun, that was powerful enough that even if my aim wasn't that great and I hit him in an arm or something, it would stop him, or at least slow him down enough that I could get away. I would prefer there to be only one side of the story left to tell, when they come to haul away the intruder, sometime after he began to assume room temperature.

And, that wouldn't make so much of a mess on the floor.

Apparently, hollowpoints leave the mess on the walls...

If you already have a handgun, and that is it, then you should probably look into a long gun, such as a shotgun or even a bolt action rifle. If money is not too tight, try and get a Saiga .308. These will cost around $500, and you will be using a more powerful round than the US military uses.

There's a couple rifles and a shotgun in my closet, as well. Nothing fancy. From what I have read here, those might be good for a deterrent, but not for stopping the more vicious breed of "looters". I'll look into the Saiga you mentioned, since rifles and shotguns do not have to be registered. Yet.

I am not looking to build an arsenal, just be able to put up enough of a resistance that the bad guys will decide to go for easier pickings.

[pico]

A shotgun is a great deterrant, especially if it is a pump action. Nothing makes a criminal shit themselves more than the sound of a shotgun getting pumped once... this puts the round in the chanber to make the gun ready to fire. I would think a low recoil round in buckshot should be great for self defence.

Saiga rifles and shotguns are based on the Kalashnikov design, and are basically modern AK-47 actions with more modern synthetic stocks. The 12 guage shotgun in particular is very nasty looking and will look much like an assault rifle, although it iis a shotgun and has nowhere near the range or firepower of a true assault rifle. Saiga's in .308 are the best value in battle rifles today, with new rifles selling for less than $700. To defend against a large number of attackers, nothing is probably better than a low cost SKS. The aftermarket magazines can hold 30 rounds, although I like the 20 round ones better(do not extend as far south for increased ergonomics) and can be reloaded with 10 round stripper clips. A nicely outfitted SKS with ned hardware and a basic red dot mounted to the gas tube cover will cast about $500, and the rifle will shoot more accurately than any stamped receiver AK-47.

I would forget about buying anything on the private market if it is illegal in your state. I think that would only go against you if you ever had to use the weapon in self defence. As long as you buy the handgun before any legislation is put into law prohibiting ownership of the weapon, I can't see them knocking down your door to take it back. They would have a war on their hands if that happened, as there are enough people who support gun ownership that will stand up for their rights. I think they will cut off partsand ammo, and guns willdie the long death by starvation.

[Adrahil]

I like the 30 round NATO mags you refer to. They have been a good investment lately if purchased before Nov 4th. I like the BETA C mags much more than the AK drums, which I have used before in two different configurations. The Beta C mags load easy, compared to the pain in the ass loading of either the chinese or romanian drums. These commie drums are very rugged, and probably will hold up better under poor conditions. The benefit for drums would be purely for SHTF situations... or for an investment when these are banned from further importation.

Roger that. My favorite AR mag right now is the translucent Lancer L5. You can inspect ammo through the body, and it works great.

I noticed you think you may not be able to control the 10mm round, but this is not really any worse than a 40 if you get the right kind of firearm. The grip is critical, since if this is not held correctly you will get some recoil which will make double tap shots near impossible in quick succession. The Glock platform is great too, as a G20 is the same frame as the G21. A simple mag and slide swap can have you shooting .45 ACP or even better, the .45 Super. Anyway, the G20 can also be tamed down a bit with a barrel conversion kit to shoot .40S&W and .357 SIG. Carbine conversions are available, and at around $400 you can even now shoot the .50GI round from this... although I think this round is not necessary with better more available rounds out there. Also, as an obvious note for those looking into firearms, the Glock's competition is H&K and Sig Sauer. Both of these are more $$$$, and the Glock is far cheaper to maintain.

It's not so much that I think I can't control it (though I doubt I could as well as the .40), it's that I find the recoil unpleasant. I shot one for a couple hours one afternoon, and by the end, I was developing a flinch. The .40 S&W has a healthy recoil too, but I never found it unpleasant.

FYI, the handgun I shoot in that caliber is the Springfield XD40. Great gun....

[pico]

My Glock 20 is very easy on my wirsts, but I also now have it configured a bit differently. A longer 6" barrel that is ported can be used where dangerous animals roam. The barrel should be removed for home defence, as the flash will be forced upward disrupting your vision.

A better spring system can be installed that will make the recoil less. I have one of these installed on my Glock 20 and 21. The Glock 20 is setup for the 9x25 dillon most of the time, and I do not use this for a self defence firearm. The upper and barrel are installed with a double spring system that is far stiffer than the original glock spring, and the recoil from the 9x25 is now not any worse than a .45 ACP. Frame battering is also kept to a minimum.

The Glock 21 is a recent addition, and I have this setup with a stainless longslide upper with a port cutout in the slide for long barrels. You need to use the 6" barrels with this slide, and the barrel currently installed is a .45 ACP that lacks the ports. I can use this as a home defence weapon, with a non glock magazine that holds 25 rounds. Another option would be to fire the .45 Super rounds, as these are far hotter than any .45 +P rounds, but the frame battering is too much without an upgraded and far stiffer spring. I have the same type of setup as the glock 20. I plan on getting a quality 6" ported barrel for hunting applications, since there is nothing like having the peace of mind that comes from 25 rounds ready to go in an emergency. A Sig Sauer P220 or 1911 style .45 is a great gun for .400 corbon. I have a standard sized barrel for my Glock 21, but the double stack magazine feeds these a little rough, so I don't trust them with the present setup.

I was recently able to shoot a Beretta 96 that was Stainless Steal. The firearm functioned great, and I left with it. I like the .40S&W, and believe it is the best round out there for self defence in your home. If the handgun is not for you, try the Beretta Storm Carbine, as this setup gives noise but hardly any recoil. Also fired and added to my wish list is the HK USP 40 Compact, but the price is rather steep for a new firearm and trade-ins don't happen often.

As for SA handguns, these are great and I failed to mention them. I have very little experiance with them, but all I talk to recommend them for their low cost compared to their excellent quality.

Stay away from the Hi Point handguns if you can afford to. These are really low quality, but then you should not expect much for the less than $200 cost for a new handgun.

Anyway, I think the Glock can be tamed down a bunch, without sacrificing the quality of ammo used. I am waiting to see if Lonewolf develops a long slide for the Glock 20, as they have done with the Glock 21. The longslide would add more weight and about 1 1/2 inches to the length, which by installing this with the longer barrel tame the recoil a bunch. Add the spring and get the grip resized will go a long ways to making this sidearm one you may really get a handle on. The 10mm is the hottest round produced in mass, and with the right ammo can be used for many applications.

[Ricfly52]

I love talking about weapons. I have a few, and I have shot a lot of ammo over the years. I don't mean to get the conversation off weapons, but I had a thought today. (I know that is very scary)

For the last 2 years I have been stocking up on food, water and ammo. But it occured to me that some of the things I have not been storing are probably somewhat important. Things like matches, and fire starters. Asprin, vitamins, coffee. Hell I would die in two days without coffee! One thing that has me really worried is that my wife and I both take a couple of prescription drugs that are very needed. Mine is a life or death drug, my wife could feasably survive with out hers, but I would have to kill her because she would drive me crazy. (just kidding)
What have you all done about this if you have the issue? It seems like it is almost impossible to get more than about three months worth of prescriptions, in the U.S. I suspect Canada and UK the same. I don't no if I trust Meheco or not.

[pico]

I had health problems in the past and only recently have been able to go without. The times I could I scrimped to save a pill here and there. Over a few years of doing this, where I would skip a dose on occasion, I was able to build a stash up. This is perhaps not wise for some, but for my circumstance it was okay. I have since been able to find over the counter meds that can perhaps sustain me if my health goes south again. For me, it was lower back pain that had urinary and digestive issues that showed up. I found that my diet greatly influenced my condition, including back pain.

I also have had migraine headaches, that can really put me down. These can be controlled quickly with nasal sprays and injections, and also with pills. The pills never worked well with me, so I tried the nasal sprays and injections. Both were very expensive, so I looked into ordering from Canada a few years ago and found that the two injections I paid for with my copay here in the US could get 5 of the same injections from Canada without any insurance help. I never did go thru with an order, but if things went back to hell I might.

While I do not advocate this, as it can possibly kill you, putting a pill under your tongue can speed the drug to where it is needed, and bypasses your internal organs somewhat. This is great with headache pills and any pain relieving meds, as your liver and stomach won't take the heavy tylenol abuse. Also, drinking grapefruit juice in a SHTF situation can extend your supply of meds for a lot longer, since it can potentially quintuple the effective dose. Break tablets into parts and put under your tongue and then wash down with grapefruit juice. This juice is sold under the Texsun brand in large cans. I think it tastes like horsepiss compared to the ruby red local stuff, but it can have a few year shelf life and will taste like piss whenever you drink it.

Anyway, I am no pharmacist and shall tell you not to hold me liable for anything mentioned above, but these techniques may help to keep you going in an emergency. I am guessing the wife is on happy pills. Whatever she is taking, or anyone else for that matter, it is important to try and get off of anything not essential fairly quickly when TSHTF. Dropping off of any long term meds quickly will leave you with the same feeling any junkie gets when they go into withdrawls. You can get these chills and sweats from stopping a simple anti-inflamatory medication such as alieve, if you take this everyday. BTW, this is naproxen sodium, which is a prescription med if given in larger doses. Having this on hand will greatly help with aches and pains if living a harder life. Caffiene will do the same as far as withdrawls go, so perhaps get a shitload and keep it on hand along with a percolater and manual bean grinder.

As for matches, they are great but a magnesium fire starter is better. These are only a few dollars, so buy a turd load. Also, get a cheap pocket knife per firestarter, since you will need it. Waterproof strike anywhere matches can be found easy enough, so buy a few thousand at minimum. Also, don't forget your firestarter blocks.. can;t remember the name off hand, but something like tryloxicane... dunno the pronunciation or spelling, but buy a few hundred, along with some simple cheap metal stoves. Also, and this should be obvious, buy a travel toilet that is basically a seat with a frame, and be sure it is the type where your funk falls into bags. Don't bother getting some cute scented bags to go with it, as you should never keep the shit around. Anyway, this should help somewhat. Lastly, get two books for your library and read them before TSHTF. The two are similar and are something like, "When there is no dentist around" and the same style but "When there is no doctor around" I have these two books and have read them a few times, but should probably read them again since I can't remember the two books exact names. Anyway, they show some basic and advanced stuff.

[Ricfly52]

pico you are cool. Some of the things you posted I have done. But the porta potty.
See I keep thinking I can get my travel trailer hooked up an go. Now I think that is a bout a 1 in 20 gamble. I have to survive here, or like a snake in the woods. Snakes don't drag travel trailers around and not get caught. I am 57, but I know I can live like the mountian men of old. Hell I have already done it, tested my own abilities. I was born and raised in the sticks. Give me a canteen of water, a wool blanket, and a horse, and I can live for another 35 years! Winter will be the test of most. Sadly many will die in the winter. Most do not have the skills to survive in the outback in the winter. Hell most could not survive in Yuma in the winter! Hell most can't survive in any city in the winter if the power went off.

[medicvet]

That reminds me, there are a few 'preppers bible' type books that I really want to get. I have a few months of my important heart meds and one of my psych meds too (seroquel)..I could ease off the seroquel gradually probably, but know from one stupid experience when I just stopped taking all meds that it is not a good thing to do. I am also reminded that I need to get firestarters too. I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it besides me, but I would stress that having at least a dozen or so bottles of bleach on hand would be a good thing for a number of applications, not the least of which is water purification.

Oh yeah, and I found out that the remington I will be getting is indeed a semi-automatic not a pump action..should I see if I can switch to a pump action?

[pico]

medicvet.. no need to switch. That is more likely a great buy. Be sure to go to a range with the gun before you try to use it in a bad situation. I remember the first time I used a semi-suto shotgun I had a tendancy to keep pulling the trigger. The recoil will be fierce, so get some practice in. Buy some rifled slugs and buckshot that are fairly inexpensive. Sellier and Bellot, or S&B as they are more commonly called in adds, is a great ammo manufacturer. They are good and are fairly cheap, so buy perhaps a 100 rounds of both and use this to practice over a few weekends. Forgo the shooting at clay targets, since this will not get you used to the recoil and such.

As for the bleach, that works in a pinch, but a water filter system will give better peace of mind, especially if the water is heavily tainted with crude and such. I nkow this trick though from surviving tropical weather in N'Awlins.