Study on the breaking of the fifth seal

[Traveler]

The Fifth seal.

Quite a bit has been written and said about the first 4 seals as in the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse and we have already just started to enter that time. The wars have started but they are still gaining momentum before they start to reach the expected biblical proportions. When it is all over 1/4 of the worlds population will have perished. A lot of it will be from famine and dieses such as AIDS and water born sicknesses due to the breakdown of water treatment plants etc.

But what has not been covered is what takes place after this period. This is a time when the world will be highly offended with all the faiths that are bible based, especially the Christian faiths. You can already see the ground work for this being laid right now in the nations that were once considered the bastions of the Christian faith. There is going to be a determined and systematic state sponsored effort to rid the nations of religious dogma once and for all.

There are going to be several reasons for this. The first is that the Church itself as an institution has been corrupted from within by those who have sort to use it to achieve their own ends, be it political or financial with the result that what they left behind is so far removed from the original faith that it will be more the devil than the world is. Hence it will have no real power to stand anyway.

The second is that those individual Christians that have remained faithful to the original calling will have been displaying all the gifts of the spirit during the war years to the point where they will actually be feared by others and considered dangerous.

The third is that the world itself has moved so far from God that it no longer finds the things of God palatable. The world will look on Godly things as an abomination and completely detestable to the new order.
Below is the actual verses pertaining to this seal.

Rev 6:9 And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held.
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they were ) should have their number made complete.

Now from those verses the following can be seen. The killing of those that hold to their faith in God has been an ongoing thing for a very long time. The souls that remained true to their calling are kept in a special separate place until the time of the resurrection. Yes God will take revenge for their murders himself but he will not prevent them from happening either. Each soul there was given their opportunity to take their stand and prove their worth.

But in the breaking of this seal it is indicated that although these souls sense that the end is near there are going to be a whole lot more being added to their number. The influx of the last days deluge is expected and prepared for.

Those on the earth will be left to actually commit their crimes for which they will receive their punishments.

Jesus also had a bit to say about this time as recorded in the Gospels.

Mat 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, I am Christ, and will deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled, for all these things must occur; but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in different places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

This is what we see happening now. We are in the beginning of sorrows and have been pretty much in it since the last two world wars, but now we also have the famines, and pestilence and earthquakes becoming more and more prevalent. Nation rising against nation on a global scale is also a relatively modern phenomenon and with the global economic melt down we can already see in the natural what is going to be happening as resources start to run out. Basically it is pretty much what the first 4 seals concerning the horsemen is all about.

Mat 24:9 Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets will rise and deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many will become cold.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end, the same shall be kept safe.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come.

Now we get to the part where Jesus is talking about the fifth seal but there is also a twist that many have not noticed before. When Jesus says that his redeemed will be hated by all nations he means all nations. There will be no place on earth where you can flee to, to escape this coming religious ethnic clensing. But it will be this final and last all out persecution that will take the gospel to all the places where it has not been able to reach before. The persecution itself will be the tool that God will use to take the gospels to the most remote parts of the earth and those places where it was never allowed to enter before.

When Jesus says that may will be offended and many will betray each other, this betrayal will go right into the family units where parents and siblings will be selling each other down the tubes. That’s how bad it will get. To be involved with Christianity will be to mark yourself as an enemy of the state and all who conceal such will also partake of the same fate. As an act of self preservation the Christians will be pointed out and sold down the tubes. The people will be brought to the point where they will want to separate themselves from all who acknowledge the God of the Bible, who will be viewed in the worst possible terms as the cause of all the evils in the world.

But Jesus also gave the warning for the need to endure. Those that stand true right to the end, whatever their fate may prove to be, will be the ones that will be kept safe as far as eternity is concerned.

[Singularity]

I'd like to point out that there can be a large number of different meanings to these, and that they can all be applied to the Roman times from which Jesus came. In fact, Rome was the first time that nearly all of the known world, including Europe, was united under a common government, so it was not uncommon for there to be war between far flung kingdomes.

Further, prior to the Roman Empire embracing Christianity as the state religion (the biggest mistake the Western world ever made in my opinion), Christians were persecuted on the basis of being Christian. They were hunted down and fed to the lions, which is why we have such a tradition of Christian martyrs.

Further, there are other periods where it would appear that the seals were opened. The Black Death easily killed more than a quarter of the people who lived in Afro-Eurasia at the time. People then thought the world was coming to an end, and in fact, it was largely because of the ineffectiveness of the church during this time that the Renaissance happened. After all, when people all around you are dying for reasons unknown and the only thing the church can offer is to go pray, people are going to lose a bit of faith.

But more importantly, there has never been a time without war, without famine, and poverty, and religious upheaval. Remember that the Christian response to the emergence of Islam was to invade and massacre the entire non-Christian population of Jerusalem. There's nothing new about Earthquakes, or any of the other issues the Bible talks about.

In fact, it's the rather generic and highly symbolic imagery of Revelations that makes it so popular among the Christian death cults. You can take it and apply it to any time period. The so-called four horsemen of the apocalypse have never not been active in human history. I think it was intentionally written so that people could take it and apply it to whatever period they happen to live. There are some biblical scholars, however, who look at Revelations not as a literal explanation of what to expect at the end of the world, but as something they would see within their lifetimes when the Roman Empire, which was very oppressive to them, finally fell. It was meant to be an inspiring story of hope, not of burning cities and the death of billions.

And that's why I get irritated with all of the people pointing to the Bible and proclaiming - hey look! It's happening! It says so right here! - Of course it's happening. It has never not been happening. Personally, I put a little more stock in the prophecies of Nostradamus, but the fact is that he also wrote in such symbolic imagery that it can be interpreted any which way.

[Traveler]

The Roman Empire did not encompass all nations. It may have been big in Europe and North Africa but it was far from all nations.

These propecies can only be fulfilled once humanity starts to operate on a global scale. Like Now!!

[weederbro]

Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in different places.



Interesting that the Greek reveals this to mean wars between countries, AND wars involving ethnic minorities within countries.
Basques, Tamils, Hutu's and Tutsi's and recently the Darfur tragedies are all examples of ethnic butchering.
Soon perhaps, another mid-east war involving who knows how many countries this time around!

[Traveler]

Well just one look at the situation on the ground and you can see how this can happen. The manipulation of the masses has become a science. Every political group with a philosophy is practicing their trades and motivating their minions despite the fact that it will lead to conflict.

Communism, capitalism, green movement, Islam, Christian dominance, nationalism, tribalism, and all motivated by the wonderful new invention of mass media to mass hysteria.

[Nu Kua]

What do you mean by 'Christian dominance', and how is it motivated by the mass media?
(which I agree is hysterical)

[Traveler]

It is a perverse movement that is starting up in the apostate church. An American thing which the rest of us hope does not spread.

Probably started up by the communist block to divide the nation. They are good at using religion this way.

[Nu Kua]

It is a perverse movement that is starting up in the apostate church. An American thing which the rest of us hope does not spread.

Probably started up by the communist block to divide the nation. They are good at using religion this way.

What kind of perverse movement, though.

Are you speaking of the "Getting Rich with God" thing we've discussed before?
If so, I'd call that more of a capitalist movement... the US is a proudly capitalist nation.
What other system could be able to so well attach a false monetary value on something that in reality is far beyond material wealth?

Well just one look at the situation on the ground and you can see how this can happen. The manipulation of the masses has become a science. Every political group with a philosophy is practicing their trades and motivating their minions despite the fact that it will lead to conflict.

This is true.

[Goldmoon]

Traveler: These propecies can only be fulfilled once humanity starts to operate on a global scale. Like Now!!

True that.

We have already begun the "Beginning of Sorrows" (Matthew 24)
I believe that soon, if not already, the Son of Perdition will be revealed.
The peace treaty already has, or will be brought to Jerusalem, at that point, the intense 7 year tribulation begins.

[Traveler]

What kind of perverse movement, though.

You have not been paying attention.

Domination theology is not looking for the rapture and end of the age. They want to bring the kingdom here to the earth by taking over the earth, more than conquers and all that.

[Traveler]

True that.

We have already begun the "Beginning of Sorrows" (Matthew 24)
I believe that soon, if not already, the Son of Perdition will be revealed.
The peace treaty already has, or will be brought to Jerusalem, at that point, the intense 7 year tribulation begins.

I would be very surprised if we do not see the treaty established in the next few years.

[Nu Kua]

You have not been paying attention.

Domination theology is not looking for the rapture and end of the age. They want to bring the kingdom here to the earth by taking over the earth, more than conquers and all that.

Is this what you are referring to?

Domination theology:

Israels Original Sin

WAS THE GOD OF JOSHUA EVER THE GOD OF JESUS?

Marshalling western historical and political evidence, contemporary Biblical scholarship, and Karl Rahner´s theology, this work focuses on the Mid-East conflict with a compelling critique of the theory and practice of Jews, Muslims, and, above all, Christians, for following Joshua more than Jesus.

Pointing to the parallel between the (story of the) Hebrews freed from slavery under the Egyptians becoming victimizers of Canaanites and the Christians freed from (Roman) persecution becoming victimizers of the Jews, pagans, heretics, Muslims, women ("witches"), and so many colonized, the author blames not the New Testament but the Old Testament Deuteronomic theology of Domination (found in the Pentateuch, Historical Writings, the Prophets, and Psalms) for Christian, Muslim, and Nazi peersecution of the Jews, and for the Israeli conquest, displacement, and/or oppression of the Palestinians.

He questions whether Palestine was ever divinely promised because the same Domination theology also claims Yahweh commanded, helped, and then blessed Joshua´s conquest/genocide. He questions whether Jesus´s God could have been responsible.

Neither the original conquest of Palestine, nor the original exile, nor the original return, nor the Roman conquests in 70 & 135 AD., nor the 20th century return and conquest of Palestine by Jews was brought about by any special act of God. God has not been punishing Jews for 1900 years with exile for not believing in Jesus. All three religions have partially misinterpreted God(´s self-revelation)...

There is a link to read an excerpt of the book but I've not clicked it.

[James Random]

It is a perverse movement that is starting up in the apostate church. An American thing which the rest of us hope does not spread.

Probably started up by the communist block to divide the nation. They are good at using religion this way.

I agree. What would christians be like if they weren't all humble and crying in the corner about how they're constantly persecuted?

[Singularity]

The Exodus may not have happened quite like it is portrayed in the Old Testament. There's an excellent show on the History channel called Battles BC that, one episode of which looks at Moses from a military angle. There's a little bit of information about it here: http://www.history.com/shows.do?acti...isodeId=428168 but I highly recommend checking out the episode. It really paints Moses in a much different light, one that is probably far closer to reality.

[weederbro]

'becoming victimizers of Canaanites'


When the invasion of Canaan was ordered it was an evil place, worshipping Baal and Ashtoreth, and this included throwing babies alive into sacrificial fires! It also included male and female religious prostitution and orgiastic rites.

It's not exactly pleasant to understand this but the place was really twisted, and Yahweh got angry!

[Goldmoon]

Thanks for taking the time to study that, Traveler. Helpful insights.

[Singularity]

'becoming victimizers of Canaanites'


When the invasion of Canaan was ordered it was an evil place, worshipping Baal and Ashtoreth, and this included throwing babies alive into sacrificial fires! It also included male and female religious prostitution and orgiastic rites.

Cultures other than your own are not, by definition, evil. We generally don't consider native Americans evil even though their culture involved human sacrifice. We consider the Greeks to be the true founders of Western culture, yet they practiced human sacrifice. In fact, the old testament is filled with animal and human sacrifices.

Furthermore, what archaeological records do we have that the Canaanites did these things? All we have to go on is the clearly biased and unreliable information in the Bible.

Sorry, Christians don't get a free pass in dehumanizing other cultures. The culture that slaughtered the Canaanites was not superior in any way but brute military strength.

It's not exactly pleasant to understand this but the place was really twisted, and Yahweh got angry!

That assumes Yahweh even exists. You've heard the saying that God is always with the victors, no?

Why does God need a name anyway? If there are no other Gods, it makes no sense to have a name other than "God" or "Father."

[Singularity]

http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm


Ritual Human Sacrifice in the Bible

(Why does God want me to burn animals and humans?)

The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is filled with numerous stories of animal and human sacrifice. God, we are told, likes the pleasing aroma of burning flesh. Animal sacrifice is much more common than human sacrifice, but both occur and are "pleasing to the Lord".

Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God. "Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18) Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him. He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar. Then Abraham ties his son to the altar and puts a knife to his throat. He then hears God tell him this was just a test of his faith. However, God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram.

Even though he didn't kill his son, it is still an incredibly cruel and evil thing to do. If Abraham did that today he would be in jail serving a long sentence as someone's prison-bitch. It amazes me how Christians see this story as a sign of God's love. There is no love here, just pure unadulterated evil.

The first seven chapters of Leviticus have extensive rules regarding animal and food sacrifices. These offerings are supposed to be burnt so that God can smell them. If you read through these it seems clear to me that the priests were getting their followers to make a big feast for them every week. The priests were very particular about what kind of food to bring and how to prepare it.

Even more peculiar is God's obsession with first-born sons. In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me." Later it says that you can redeem (replace) an ass with a sheep and that you must redeem a child for an unspecified price. It is clear from the context that "consecrate" means a burning sacrifice. These priests are guilty of theft and kidnapping. Since any sins in the Old Testament were punishable by death, these priests used the threat of death to extort food and money from their followers. What do we call a scum-bag that threatens to kill your kids unless you pay a ransom? A kidnapper! If these priests were alive today they would be in prison with Abraham.

However, in Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions. "Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death." I must admit that I am a bit confused by this contradiction, but it might only apply to slaves in your possession. Not that it makes any difference. A human sacrifice is a human sacrifice, and it is just sick.


Bible Passages About Ritual Human Sacrifice

Jephthah Burns His Daughter

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)


God Commands Burning Humans

[The Lord speaking] "The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel." (Joshua 7:15 NLT)


Josiah and Human Sacrifice

At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)

He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)

Human Sacrifice

Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself. In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble; (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.)

Child Sacrifice

And this became a hidden trap for mankind, because men, in bondage to misfortune or to royal authority, bestowed on objects of stone or wood the name that ought not to be shared. Afterward it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but they live in great strife due to ignorance, and they call such great evils peace. For whether they kill children in their initiations, or celebrate secret mysteries, or hold frenzied revels with strange customs… (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV) The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible. This passage condemns human sacrifice but acknowledges that it did happen by early God worshipers.

Humans are Fuel for Fire

As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end. Return it to its sheath! In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)

Burn Nonbelievers

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

[Traveler]

OK despite the efforts of those that want to twist the thread to criminalize God there has been other real questions on other forums asking for clarification. I have included the answer here for those that have a real interest to understand.


xxxxxx


One thing that I have noticed is that there are as many interpretations of the book of Revelation as there are students studying the book. To the point where I have often heard the expression that some have started to say that they are Pan trib, as in however things pan out that is the way it is supposed to be.

But I have found that it is not as complicated as it looks so long as you include all the criteria. When looking at the book of Daniel we find that there still remains the last week where God is dealing with His own Holy Nation Israel. Currently we are in the time of the Gentiles where God is dealing with the other nations of this world.

That means that there are two separate and distinct groups of people that God has an interest in. We have the Gentiles which have been redeemed from out of this earth and they represent the body of Christ and belong to Christ as they have been bought with his own blood. Then we have the Holy nation which belongs to God the Father that he raised up in this earth through the covenant that he originally made with Abraham and later confirmed through Moses in Exodus.

The book of Revelation is dealing with both of these groups in their own order and time. The confusion comes in because the church tends to think that it is all about them exclusively when it is not. Jesus is still the Jews messiah and the point has still to be reached where he will be accepted as such during Daniels last week. The book of Revelation deals with the winding up of both the covenants and Jesus has his part to play in both of them.

Now most scholars will include the seals as a part of the end tribulations and to a large extent they are correct. I tend to draw a distinction between the two because the seals is what leads up to the rapture of the Church in the sixth seal at which point the earth reverts back to the law for Daniels last week. I know that a lot of scholars believe that the trumpets and the seals run simultaneously but as can be seen the trumpets are only given to the angles in the opening of the seventh seal so these two sections of events can only occur one after the other. They cannot run together.

With the rapture of the church the time of the gentiles comes to an end. The age of grace is over and the way is opened for the daily sacrifices under the old law to commence again as required by the law. It is the Jewish nation that will remain to carry out these sacrifices as they will now be forefront as Gods representatives on this earth again. The tribulation ends and the great tribulation starts when these sacrifices are stopped and the anti-christ sets his own image up over the alter as God himself constituting the abomination of desolation half way through Daniels last week.

[Traveler]

For the accusation that God was for human sacrifice, it can be pointed out that this was never the case.

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech; which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

As can be seen it was the people that went off the rails here and as God said, “which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination”.

So even God considered this an abomination and it did not even come to his mind to consider this.

But one thing is quite obvious now. All the places where you guys are getting your idea from, that try to criminalize God, are obviously absolute rubbish and outright lies.

[Beatnik Bob]

OK despite the efforts of those that want to twist the thread to criminalize God

You and the christian community arent God.

That means that there are two separate and distinct groups of people that God has an interest in.

No, god is interested in HUMANS period. I don't buy a certain group being "above" another, as in jews being holier than gentiles (as oddly enough, the gentiles seem to buy so readily).
Ethnocentrism isn't god's way. Trust me on that one.

Jesus is still the Jews messiah

Yes. a point that every gentile in history has misunderstood. If you read the book of shemot you see that Moses is called the messiah as well. The term is completely misunderstood by gentiles...

I actually have been trying to figure out why people who weren't born jewish would want to adopt or be apart of the jewish tradition. I mean, hell, I'm not sure I like being born into this particular community, because it has many disadvantages, and things are expected of you that are rather distasteful.
Why are goys so interested in these texts? Like of your own free will you choose to be wrapped up in this nonsense and drama BS when it doesn't even apply to you? Like freely choose stupidity without even being born into it?
I will never understand that one.

With the rapture of the church the time of the gentiles comes to an end. The age of grace is over and the way is opened for the daily sacrifices under the old law to commence again as required by the law. It is the Jewish nation that will remain to carry out these sacrifices as they will now be forefront as Gods representatives on this earth again. The tribulation ends and the great tribulation starts when these sacrifices are stopped and the anti-christ sets his own image up over the alter as God himself constituting the abomination of desolation half way through Daniels last week.

Ok ok, at this point I'm not here to criticize your bs, i'm just trying to understand it.

WHY do gentiles want "the old law to commence," again?

Didn't jesus supposedly come to ABOLISH the old law? Why put it back into place?

Doesn't the belief you stated above directly contradict jesus's philosophy? I swear, I say it all the time but it isn't enough. There is NOT A SINGLE true christian on this planet; including those on AO.

And a side note..you do realize that "THE LAW" includes following keshrut laws? A dietary law that I imagine many gentiles would be loath to accept. You are honestly trying to say that a man is going to come from the sky and with him begin an era of animal sacrifice and abstinence from pork?

Half the fat slobs on the planet would starve to death before their tribulation even came.
Ah, you are what you eat...

Lay off the pig, Trav. Jesus didn't eat barbecue.

[Cherisa]

I don't eat pork and I am not Jewish.
I don't like it it tastes like crap.

[Beatnik Bob]

I don't eat pork and I am not Jewish.
I don't like it it tastes like crap.

Amen, brother.
It just makes me feel sluggish and the complete opposite of energetic. It also is so molecularly close to humans it is kind of gross. It has been said that if you know what pork tastes like, then you know what cannibalism would taste like.

I don't keep keshrut myself, but pork just doesn't interest me.

[RhymnRzn]

I swear, I say it all the time but it isn't enough. There is NOT A SINGLE true christian on this planet; including those on AO.

^this is how much a ball of glass can reckon and contend with us: nothing to be compared to when the true pearl doth arise.

Traveler, I read your posts and can only agree with the lesser denomination of your writings. In the greater part however, you do a great deal of adding and taking away from the Revelation, and go about another gospel, which I do not recieve: So you will not be getting my praise, until you put down the keyboard and meditate in the HOLY SCRIPTURES, and not these world-wise false doctrines. Think about Isaiah's word to cease from man whose breath is in his nostrils, and the word about not needing a man to teach what we recieve in the beginning by the annointing (1 John 2:24-27).

Where I come from, whoever goes about (in our common language) to quote anything but the King James Version is having a discussion between voices in your own heed (realize it, or not: reasons will no doubt follow), forasmuch as the sheep know the voice of their shepherd, as the voice of false shepherds try to immitate to misinform, author confusion, and lead astray.

I say these things even if I be the least of all men.

[Beatnik Bob]

Where I come from, whoever goes about (in our common language) to quote anything but the King James Version is having a discussion between voices in your own heed (realize it, or not: reasons will no doubt follow), forasmuch as the sheep know the voice of their shepherd, as the voice of false shepherds try to immitate to misinform, author confusion, and lead astray.

I say these things even if I be the least of all men.

Ye! Thou art in agreement...with thine self.

Ye, and doth not the bowels churn at the thought of O' yonder heathens? Thine art most disgusting. I beg good sir that thine might eat quaker oats with thine and partake of the juices of plenty, and read and meditate on thine works of the almighty that we may better digest. For what is thine sustenance if not coupled with the love of christ?
Ye, thou dost speak the truth.
May my sword be sheathed and cleaned after i jerk off. For thine are begot of the thoughts of lust! Lo!



Lo! defiled art the other scriptures that dare contend with the KJV! Thou art scorners, heathens, wretches of revelations! There art none other route to the almighty than that of the King of England! Lo! abandon all worldiness! (save archaic tongue and adherence to King James!) and take up the galant coat of arms of england! May ye rep yo family and yo hood!





Ohhhhh...he was for real.