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Thread: Fear

  1. #1
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC's Avatar
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    Fear

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    Looking back through all the treads that have been posted here as to when and what we befall humanity and the myriad of scenarios, it becomes clear that fear of the unknown is what moves people to speculation. We fear the government, we fear war, we fear the next door neighbor because he acts different, and in the end we fear our own judgment of what we think reality is.

    In a simpler time, the basic needs took priority, food and shelter, raising a family, and trying to etch out a life with some sort of meaning and dignity. Even though the hardships were tougher, the lack of technology allowed for each individual to take stock of his or hers surroundings and make the best of them.

    Today we are saturated with information that we can't possibly understand, nor make any sane choices with. One side is telling you to Liston to their concept of existence, while the other is claiming that its wrong.

    Politics, religion, philosophy, life styles, all of it claiming to have the answer you need to feel better, but funny enough, after trying them all, you don't. And the further we indulge ourselves in some fabricated media to help us decide, the more confusing it becomes as to who or what is right.

    We have lost something in this technological exchange, something vital, something that sustained our ancestors, and maybe that singular gut instinct was there for a reason, that silent voice inside that tells us whats right and wrong, and we acted on it without question, and without fear.
    Last edited by TC; Sep 8th, 2009 at 5:03 PM.


    when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortround View Post
    that silent voice inside that tells us whats right and wrong, and we acted on it without question, and without fear.
    in this day and age, acting according to the dictates of the voices in your head amounts to being legally insane.
    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

  3. #3
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    in this day and age, acting according to the dictates of the voices in your head amounts to being legally insane.
    Instinct is not voices in your head Uki...


    when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature

  4. #4
    Fighting for Life Contributor olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon pwns God olddragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortround View Post
    Instinct is not voices in your head Uki...
    Action without thinking..........
    Like breaking cover to help your bud.

  5. #5
    The Teller Of Truths Assassin X has disabled reputation Assassin X's Avatar
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    WTF! My voices tell me everything! :P

    Back on topic... in the end I just go with what I THINK. I may discuss it and research but I almost always go with how I felt in the first place. It use to be there were 2 sides to every story. Now theres 2,000. So fuck that. I'll stick what I think.
    AO is about one thing. Going around in loops. No one cares to learn, they only care to live inside their boxes and ignore the truth!

  6. #6
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old dragon View Post
    Action without thinking..........
    Like breaking cover to help your bud.
    Exactly. You don't need some philosophy or persuasion, nor do you allow fear to make you calculate any odds. Its ancient and probably the reason we have survived.


    when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature

  7. #7
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    Sometimes I feel like we spend so much time listening to so many different stories, ideas and thoughts that we never really absorb most of them, but just skim their surface in harried confusion in order to move on to the next. There is no time for depth, or even, at times, veracity. Technology opens a wide door, but the room beyond is a veiled maze, often leading back to the entrance.
    Last edited by phedrereine; Sep 10th, 2009 at 7:51 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Interesting that you would post this, I was doing a biblical study today on fear and the negative implications it has upon people, it was also covered in depth on the radio.

    The spirit of fear is the most dangerous thing in our lives today, we should all strive to overcome fear, and abolish it from our lives.

    I am forever thankful to have coquered all fear, and to have been given all authority over fear and evil, having been granted the spirit of love, and of a sound mind.

    Let fear have no place in your conscience.

    "He who calls on the name of the Lord, shall be saved."

  9. #9
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob has disabled reputation Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortround View Post
    Looking back through all the treads that have been posted here as to when and what we befall humanity and the myriad of scenarios, it becomes clear that fear of the unknown is what moves people to speculation. We fear the government, we fear war, we fear the next door neighbor because he acts different, and in the end we fear our own judgment of what we think reality is.

    In a simpler time, the basic needs took priority, food and shelter, raising a family, and trying to etch out a life with some sort of meaning and dignity. Even though the hardships were tougher, the lack of technology allowed for each individual to take stock of his or hers surroundings and make the best of them.
    Something you might want to think about is whether fear is equal to wariness.

    Even in simpler times, you suspected danger so that you could avoid it or conquer it. Wariness isn't synonymous with fear, but they are very similar.

    You may walk past a dark hole and consider going down it. Fear would tell you the hole is terrible and you should overreact to its threat and stay away from it. And experience some emotional reaction.
    Wariness would tell you poisonous spiders or snakes will sometimes go into such holes.

    But they are so similar that when you demonstratize the qualities of fear it sounds like you could be condemning some of the basic survival techniques we use.
    Because wariness is extremely useful. Knowing your opponent(s), etc. If people weren't wary, they wouldn't be alive.
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

  10. #10
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phedre reine View Post
    Sometimes I feel like we spend so much time listening to so many different stories, ideas and thoughts that we never really absorb most of them, but just skim their surface in harried confusion in order to move on to the next. There is no time for depth, or even, at times, veracity. Technology opens a wide door, but the room beyond is a veiled maze, often leading back to the entrance.
    Yes, this is were we perhaps lost something. We can't decipher anything because the jungle is so thick, and with every turn you find another question.


    when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Something you might want to think about is whether fear is equal to wariness.

    Even in simpler times, you suspected danger so that you could avoid it or conquer it. Wariness isn't synonymous with fear, but they are very similar.

    You may walk past a dark hole and consider going down it. Fear would tell you the hole is terrible and you should overreact to its threat and stay away from it. And experience some emotional reaction.
    Wariness would tell you poisonous spiders or snakes will sometimes go into such holes.

    But they are so similar that when you demonstratize the qualities of fear it sounds like you could be condemning some of the basic survival techniques we use.
    Because wariness is extremely useful. Knowing your opponent(s), etc. If people weren't wary, they wouldn't be alive.
    Without fear, we would not have wariness. There would be no need to be wary if we did not feel an impetus of care, and fear is the strongest emotional response of care there is -- we find out how much we care about things, like our loved ones and our lives, when we react to the threat of losing them. It motivates us into avoidance and/or action, which is wariness. We don't necessarily need to consciously fear something in order to be wary of it, but we do need to understand the emotion of fear and what it feels like from personal experience, and realize there is a possibility of feeling it again in a particular situation if we are not wary. This saves us from other things we may not think about, as well, like the sensation of hurt and pain. We don't usually remember those things as well, but we do remember the fear, and that keeps us wary. There is a purpose behind every emotion, and contrary to what some might think, there is no emotion that is totally detrimental or totally beneficial. It's what we do with those emotions, and how far we let them take us, that determines whether a particular one is good or bad for us at a certain time.
    "But more wonderful than the lore of old men and the lore of books is the secret lore of ocean."

  12. #12
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia's Avatar
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    hmm... interesting topic. Fear is a lie that we are taught. Babies are born fearless. When a child grows he/she learns alot of times by getting hurt. That being said, I don't think that fear is the same as being aware of something that will hurt you and staying away. That is just being smart for your own good. I think there is a big difference between being aware/wary of something that you have learned has the potential to hurt you, and being afraid(having fear)of something.

    For example you could see a black widow spider and be aware that is would not be in your best interest to go near it, this you have learned from expierience. Or you could see a black widow spider and turn and run so fast that you don't notice the big rattlesnake you just stepped on until it bites you.

    Fear is unreasonable and alot of times just causes more problems. While being aware/wary is just being intelligent.
    Fear is the first lie, the lie that tells you that you are separated from the whole. Once it has been embraced, you are incapable of ever telling the truth under any circumstances.

  13. #13
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob has disabled reputation Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkia
    For example you could see a black widow spider and be aware that is would not be in your best interest to go near it, this you have learned from expierience. Or you could see a black widow spider and turn and run so fast that you don't notice the big rattlesnake you just stepped on until it bites you.

    Fear is unreasonable and alot of times just causes more problems. While being aware/wary is just being intelligent.
    Actually, interesting you should mention that. Because they did some studies and found people would be likely to not approach a spider even if they have never had a negative experience from it. Because of the way it looks it apparently registers negatively in the human brain.

    As for the red hour-glass warning sign on black widows...that is a psychological universal sign for danger. I don't think any human had to have a run-in with it to recognize that it was dangerous. That includes many snakes. Some creatures are just recognized as dangerous by the way our brain registers them.

    Isn't it interesting that we find dangerous animals to be somewhat ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by phedrereine View Post
    Without fear, we would not have wariness. There would be no need to be wary if we did not feel an impetus of care, and fear is the strongest emotional response of care there is -- we find out how much we care about things, like our loved ones and our lives, when we react to the threat of losing them. It motivates us into avoidance and/or action, which is wariness. We don't necessarily need to consciously fear something in order to be wary of it, but we do need to understand the emotion of fear and what it feels like from personal experience, and realize there is a possibility of feeling it again in a particular situation if we are not wary. This saves us from other things we may not think about, as well, like the sensation of hurt and pain.
    Ahh, good point.

    Yes, fear is useful. But I still think it is possible to be wary (after you've learned the value of wariness, as you said through pain and fear) without an emotional response.


    Quote Originally Posted by phed
    We don't usually remember those things as well, but we do remember the fear, and that keeps us wary. There is a purpose behind every emotion, and contrary to what some might think, there is no emotion that is totally detrimental or totally beneficial. It's what we do with those emotions, and how far we let them take us, that determines whether a particular one is good or bad for us at a certain time.
    Well...
    It is true that there are positive and negative emotions. Or at least what we perceive to be positive and negative. The positive emotions generally boost your immune system, and so if you are happy, you will live a longer healthier life, even if you keep experiencing that emotion there isn't an indicator that it will be bad for you.

    Though things like depression actually make you more susceptible to disease and it makes you experience a lower quality of life in general.

    I think some emotions must be in the human body, biologically, for no other reason than to explain the difference of good and bad to us in a chemical code that we understand on a much personal level.

    Call it DNA's way of teaching you to have a better immune system. At least I like to think of of it that way. You can't know something positive without having known something negative. These are all necessary things.
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

  14. #14
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC's Avatar
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    Today we are told what to fear, rather than have learned from an experience, and by a media that has objectives. We are told that some nation or country is a threat to our existence, we are told that we must act in defence, and the emotion that moves the majority of a population to go along with this action is fear.

    We are told of some unknown sickness or disease that is going to kill us, or some deadly migrating insect that is on its way to your front door, or some future weather scenario that will annihilate us if we don't act.

    Albert Einstein states: "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." Perhaps over the last 40 years of mass media, we have created those prejudices or set judgments, or at least we have lost the ability to decipher things with any true logic.


    when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature

  15. #15
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    Fear is unreasonable and alot of times just causes more problems. While being aware/wary is just being intelligent.
    I actually agree 100% with that. If fears overwhelm us, then the problem processing can get all jacked up and make things worse.

  16. #16
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Actually, interesting you should mention that. Because they did some studies and found people would be likely to not approach a spider even if they have never had a negative experience from it. Because of the way it looks it apparently registers negatively in the human brain.

    As for the red hour-glass warning sign on black widows...that is a psychological universal sign for danger. I don't think any human had to have a run-in with it to recognize that it was dangerous. That includes many snakes. Some creatures are just recognized as dangerous by the way our brain registers them.

    Isn't it interesting that we find dangerous animals to be somewhat ugly?
    Ah... so really we don't even need our life expierience to tell us that things can be dangerous. We just need our instincts. And to listen to them.

    Fear keeps people trapped. It is a form of control, lose fear and you have freedom.
    Fear is the first lie, the lie that tells you that you are separated from the whole. Once it has been embraced, you are incapable of ever telling the truth under any circumstances.

  17. #17
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    fear is a sickness that infects the soul...

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    ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

  18. #18
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    saw this today...
    The Difference between Intuition & Instinct

    Our intuition is the way our Spirit/Divine-Self communicates through us. It always comes from within. Our intuition always has the highest perspective of all situations and experiences, thus guides us to operate and make decisions from this expanded space. Our intuition never steers us wrong, and when we are clear enough to listen and follow it, our journey makes for a smoother experience. Intuition operates with discernment as opposed to judgment.

    Our instinct is a physical response or reaction from something outside of ourselves. Our instinct is meant to protect us on the physical level which is important to honor. However, the important thing to note is if we always operate from our survival instinct, for the most part (but not always) we are operating from a space of fear and victim consciousness. Fear disconnects us from our intuition and our true essence. What happens is, we begin to define ourselves as just physical beings through our third dimensional experience, which results in the forgetting of who we really are, Divine Spiritual Beings having a physical experience.

    When we operate from our intuition, we are usually in alignment and are always guided to be in the right place at the right time, and doors that once seemed closed begin to open up in all areas of our lives.

    The best way to reconnect with your intuition is to meditate daily. Meditation does not have to be difficult or long. You don’t have to try to quiet your mind completely, just be easy on yourself through the process. Over time, you will begin to receive amazing insights and revelations that will assist you greatly on your journey!
    from... http://www.lightworkers.org/wisdom/e...n-and-instinct
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  19. #19
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC pwns God TC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post

    Nice piece Uki. Basically that we have lost that ability by virtually bombing our senses with to much outside interference. We navigate through the information without the natural ability of discernment.


    when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    As for the red hour-glass warning sign on black widows...that is a psychological universal sign for danger. I don't think any human had to have a run-in with it to recognize that it was dangerous. That includes many snakes. Some creatures are just recognized as dangerous by the way our brain registers them.

    Isn't it interesting that we find dangerous animals to be somewhat ugly?
    An evolutionary quirk, I think. Our brain automatically associates vivid color in snakes and spiders with danger, because it usually does happen to mean the animal is poisonous.

    As for ugliness, it is pretty interesting how it coincides with some animals. We generally consider bugs, bats, crocodiles, hyenas, porcupines and sharks to be somewhat ugly, for example. But then again, other animals we view as some of the most dangerous in the world are also the ones we view as some of the most beautiful: lions, leopards, tigers, grizzly bears, polar bears, wolves, jelly fish, snakes (some people consider them to be very graceful and beautiful)... even koalas, the epitome of adorable, can actually be quite vicious and aggressive, when they're not sleeping, bless their hearts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Yes, fear is useful. But I still think it is possible to be wary (after you've learned the value of wariness, as you said through pain and fear) without an emotional response.
    Agreed, especially when someone is being wary in advance, when they are simply on guard and are not presently sensing the actual danger. I think when someone physically senses the actual threat, however, there is usually at least a small emotional response associated with wariness. It's natural to feel startled or feel fear by a manifestation of danger, and those feelings can save your life by making you extra wary. Of course, fear can lead you to act beyond wariness and rationality into hysterics and make you fall into another pit of danger, like elkia said. It depends how you let it use you, and how much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Well...
    It is true that there are positive and negative emotions. Or at least what we perceive to be positive and negative. The positive emotions generally boost your immune system, and so if you are happy, you will live a longer healthier life, even if you keep experiencing that emotion there isn't an indicator that it will be bad for you.

    I think some emotions must be in the human body, biologically, for no other reason than to explain the difference of good and bad to us in a chemical code that we understand on a much personal level.

    Call it DNA's way of teaching you to have a better immune system. At least I like to think of of it that way. You can't know something positive without having known something negative. These are all necessary things.
    I don't believe that there are purely positive and purely negative emotions, but it is true that the ones we view as "positive" help our health. That is only one benefit, however. Happiness improves health and one's communication with others, but a surfeit of it can also lull you into a state of complacency and make you ill-prepared for trouble. Also, do you think the human race would have advanced as far as it has through happiness alone? Sadness, anger, remorse, hatred... they may be bad for our health, but they are the fuel for growth and development. They teach us more than happiness ever could. For example, in response to the grief of a child who died from illness, a parent might devote their life to building a support system for other victims, or inventing a vaccine. Anger has a way of doubling someone's determination and getting a job done. Even jealousy encourages a striving for competition and improvement. And fear encourages wariness (There is nothing I have been wary of that hasn't caused me a little fear simultaneously, or else caused me a little fear in the past either in thinking about it or experiencing it, and so made me wary -- or I felt a fear for something similar, at least. It doesn't have to be a large amount of fear; in fact it usually is a small amount, barely registered and perhaps hidden, but that small amount is necessary in order to be wary.) We can take all emotions too far and they can lead us down negative roads, and that usually is not good, no -- but even then, sometimes having experienced the negative actions, we can then feel shame and learn how to be more compassionate than we were before we felt them. Ah, but yes, even compassion can get out of hand and we can become so selfless that we neglect to take care of ourselves.

    Bottom line: Nothing in excess. Life is a delicate balance.
    Last edited by phedrereine; Sep 12th, 2009 at 5:13 PM.
    "But more wonderful than the lore of old men and the lore of books is the secret lore of ocean."

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by phedrereine View Post
    An evolutionary quirk, I think. Our brain automatically associates vivid color in snakes and spiders with danger, because it usually does happen to mean the animal is poisonous.
    i believe it is a genetic memory passed along in our DNA from a time of experience when reptiles and insects were much larger and preyed on mankind.
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    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob has disabled reputation Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phedrereine View Post
    An evolutionary quirk, I think. Our brain automatically associates vivid color in snakes and spiders with danger, because it usually does happen to mean the animal is poisonous.
    Exactly. I'm talking about prescient memories in humans.

    Another thing I was trying to point out was not only that our brain sees particular color on certain animals (as parrots aren't perceived as dangerous by our brain) but that those animals have those particular colors is somewhat a phenomenon. The fact that a black widow even has a red hourglass warning sign is interesting.

    But then again, other animals we view as some of the most dangerous in the world are also the ones we view as some of the most beautiful: lions, leopards, tigers, grizzly bears, polar bears, wolves, jelly fish, snakes (some people consider them to be very graceful and beautiful)...
    Ahh, but you see, the human brain also translates ferociousness as ugly. If a grizzly gets aggressive and wants to kill you, it will make an "ugly face" and you recognize the danger.
    If you don't recognize the danger...then that is natural selection in action.


    But as far as grizzlies, lions, wolves in general go, we don't view them as overly ugly...because they are somewhat benign and they are very similar to us. I mean...look at wolves. We domesticated dogs from them. They are basically benign. And grizzlies aren't so dangerous. EX: Timothy Treadwell, who showed on film that you can often run into a dangerous grizzly and be nice or "bear whisper" with them and get out of it.

    You can't "spider whisper" though. Because spiders are on a different level of danger. They're fairly alien, and reasoning with them is unrealistic. I realize the irony that Treadwell ended up dying, but he fared very well, and the bear who killed him I believe was just an unhappy and angry bear. Even the other grizzly bears didn't like that bear.

    Which brings us to the next point of personality as a decent buffer. If an animal is capable of having a personality, it is probably fairly benign, ferocious perhaps, but not benign.

    (I don't know about everyone else, but jellyfish are ugly in real life. Maybe they are majestic in a MOVIE, but movies are always the exception. If you're in the water, and you see a Man-o-war....you get out).

    Agreed, especially when someone is being wary in advance, when they are simply on guard and have not seeing the actual danger yet. I think when someone physically senses the actual threat, however, there is usually at least a small emotional response associated with wariness. It's natural to feel startled or scared by a manifestation of danger, and those feelings can save your life by making you extra wary. Of course, fear can lead you to act beyond wariness and rationality into hysterics and make you fall into another pit of danger, like elkia said. It depends how you let it use you.

    Also, do you think the human race would have advanced as far as it has through sheer happiness? Sadness, anger, remorse, hatred... they may be bad for our health, but they are the fuel for development.
    Except that couldn't be farther from the truth. They did a study that showed that successful people were happier people, not angry people. In fact, angry people consistently fail at achieving goals of any kind.

    Not to mention depression destroys determination, which is the REAL reason why people succeed and develop.

    This goes for hatred, remorse, and all the rest. Studies have consistently shown that those emotions are exactly counter productive and fuel nothing but failure.
    It is simply impossible for the human race to have advanced to this point from hatred and sadness and remorse.

    In fact, those things have, to a certain degree, INHIBITED our advancement. Imagine where we would be if people weren't, sad, angry, and hateful?

    We would be much more advanced, and our social structure would be allot healthier.

    Hatred as an emotion is incapable of doing anything other than paralyze societies. Give me a messed up un-advanced society anywhere in the world. Tell me that they are un-advanced and paralyzed because the people were happy and full of good will.
    ...


    Such a society does not exist. If it does...let me live there.

    We learn more from them than we ever could from happiness. For example, in response to the grief of a child who died from illness, a parent might devote their life to building a support system for other victims, or inventing a vaccine. Anger has a way of doubling someone's determination and getting a job done.
    I wouldn't call what the mother feels afterward to be anger. It would probably be some sadness but then positive determination. If she was angry, her vaccine would fail.


    Even jealousy encourages a striving for competition and improvement. And fear encourages wariness [/Quote]
    And by using that option, we have crippled our societies.

    What's really ironic is that jealousy DOES tend to be a motivator, and we use it to motivate ourselves to create things (presumably) that make life better. But the fundamental reason we had problems with our life/society in the first place is because we were jealous of our neighbors, hated them, etc.

    So think about that, and tell me how progressive that actually sounds. It's not progressive at all, to me it sounds like a cycle of socially psychotic behavior.

    Emotions are a tool, so use them wisely. Wrong use of emotions is as dangerous as going near black widows. Both are factors in natural selection. The question is...will our emotions destroy our species?


    Nothing in excess. Life is a delicate balance.
    Nothing in excess doesn't mean use anything detrimental to you in addition to that which is good for you.
    If we all lived our lives that way, we'd be dead by the time we were 2-week-olds.

    "Naturally selected."
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Ahh, but you see, the human brain also translates ferociousness as ugly. If a grizzly gets aggressive and wants to kill you, it will make an "ugly face" and you recognize the danger.
    If you don't recognize the danger...then that is natural selection in action.
    I'm don't think people consider aggression in animals they perceive as beautiful to be ugly. For example, when you see/hear a lion roar, do you think that's ugly? Ferocious, yes, but personally I think it's beautiful. Even if the lion were roaring at me, I would probably crap my pants in fear, yes, but I would not consider it "ugly." I would think "scary," "lethal," "powerful," and yet "majestic" would still come to mind. You can still acknowledge the beauty while processing the danger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    But as far as grizzlies, lions, wolves in general go, we don't view them as overly ugly...because they are somewhat benign and they are very similar to us. I mean...look at wolves. We domesticated dogs from them. They are basically benign. And grizzlies aren't so dangerous. EX: Timothy Treadwell, who showed on film that you can often run into a dangerous grizzly and be nice or "bear whisper" with them and get out of it.
    I don't know about that. I honestly consider big cats to be more beautiful than most primates, and yet primates are much closer to us. And I don't think you can, in general, call big cats, wolves or grizzlies even somewhat benign. You would be a fool to face them in the wild and consider them benign. Domesticated dogs are really not so close to wolves and have evolved on a separate evolutionary track for thousands of years now.

    And grizzlies actually can be very dangerous. I'm not saying they are dangerous most of the time, but the potential is there and implemented, and my point is that humans recognize that potential when they face a bear, and still see the beauty. Timothy Treadwell had spent years living with those bears, and knew how to do it without provoking them. They were bears that weren't desperate (until the last one that killed him) and they were familiar with him. So that is very different than a human and bear that are strangers to one another crossing paths. Also, I might add that he still kept a gun at his camp site just in case and recognized that these were still wild, unpredictable animals following their instincts, not to mention much stronger, and that they could easily kill him with little effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    You can't "spider whisper" though. Because spiders are on a different level of danger. They're fairly alien, and reasoning with them is unrealistic. I realize the irony that Treadwell ended up dying, but he fared very well, and the bear who killed him I believe was just an unhappy and angry bear. Even the other grizzly bears didn't like that bear.
    It was an old, starving bear, yes. But it just goes to show how easily it can be done, and that the danger is there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Which brings us to the next point of personality as a decent buffer. If an animal is capable of having a personality, it is probably fairly benign, ferocious perhaps, but not benign.
    Would you consider humans benign? I wouldn't...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    (I don't know about everyone else, but jellyfish are ugly in real life. Maybe they are majestic in a MOVIE, but movies are always the exception. If you're in the water, and you see a Man-o-war....you get out).
    They're actually famed for their beauty. Maybe not the Portuguese Man of War, no, but many species are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Except that couldn't be farther from the truth. They did a study that showed that successful people were happier people, not angry people. In fact, angry people consistently fail at achieving goals of any kind.

    Not to mention depression destroys determination, which is the REAL reason why people succeed and develop.
    I didn't say "angry people." I said the emotion of anger, sometimes felt.

    And I totally disagree about depression. Sometimes it does make you counter productive, yes, but under depression I have experienced the greatest, most profound motivation to write, and written things I wouldn't have otherwise. Other writers I know have admitted they feel the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    This goes for hatred, remorse, and all the rest. Studies have consistently shown that those emotions are exactly counter productive and fuel nothing but failure.
    It is simply impossible for the human race to have advanced to this point from hatred and sadness and remorse.
    First of all, what studies? Second of all, if you let those emotions consume you, they will usually lead to some failure, but sometimes in the rights dosages they are the strongest motivators. And can you imagine a world without remorse? That is a horrible thought. Hatred usually works for the most ill, though, I will admit, but if you don't act on it and can find a way out of it, it can also be a cleansing experience that will clear your head and teach you something.

    Secondly, of course the human race couldn't have advanced to this point from those emotions alone. Just like they couldn't have advanced to this point from happiness alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    I wouldn't call what the mother feels afterward to be anger. It would probably be some sadness but then positive determination. If she was angry, her vaccine would fail.
    I didn't say she feels anger. I said she feels grief.

    Yes, and where does the determination come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    What's really ironic is that jealousy DOES tend to be a motivator, and we use it to motivate ourselves to create things (presumably) that make life better. But the fundamental reason we had problems with our life/society in the first place is because we were jealous of our neighbors, hated them, etc.

    So think about that, and tell me how progressive that actually sounds. It's not progressive at all, to me it sounds like a cycle of socially psychotic behavior.[B]
    That's because people are using those emotions in the wrong way. We humans tend to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Nothing in excess doesn't mean use anything detrimental to you in addition to that which is good for you.
    If we all lived our lives that way, we'd be dead by the time we were 2-week-olds.

    "Naturally selected."
    I didn't say use anything detrimental to you. Emotions by themselves are not detrimental, unless they are used poorly. Use them well, use them in balance, and don't let them carry you away. Don't try to cut some of them out of your life completely, either, because no emotion is completely good or completely bad -- they are naturally there for a reason and they are meant to be experienced and learned from.
    "But more wonderful than the lore of old men and the lore of books is the secret lore of ocean."

  24. #24
    Falling to Resurrection iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti pwns God iulian28ti's Avatar
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    Actually, interesting you should mention that. Because they did some studies and found people would be likely to not approach a spider even if they have never had a negative experience from it. Because of the way it looks it apparently registers negatively in the human brain.
    They must have used girls (or pussies) in the experiment.
    I play with spiders often. It's funny to see them climbing upside down or "fast roping".

  25. #25
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia tastes great with cheese and crackers elkia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iulian28ti View Post
    They must have used girls (or pussies) in the experiment.
    I play with spiders often. It's funny to see them climbing upside down or "fast roping".
    I like spiders too. They are interesting, and cool looking. But most people do tend to stay away from them... they look kinda creepy I guess..
    Fear is the first lie, the lie that tells you that you are separated from the whole. Once it has been embraced, you are incapable of ever telling the truth under any circumstances.

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